Like many of us, Azuka Okeke once thought supply chain was boring–until it became clear what a profound impact it had on everything from public health to global problem solving. Now, as CEO of the Africa Resource Center for Excellence in Supply Chain Management, she’s working to encourage local manufacturing in Nigeria as a key component for the timely delivery of medications. She’s no stranger to making noise on important issues – and she has plenty to teach us on the topic. Tune in as she chats with Scott and special guest co-host Jenny Froome from SAPICS on educating local governments, facilitating successful private/public sector collaborations, sustainably tackling sustainability and more.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:33):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton and Jenny Froome with you here on supply chain. Now, welcome to today’s show Jenny, how are we doing? Hi.

Jenny Froome (00:41):

We’re doing really well happy new year to

Scott Luton (00:43):

Everybody happy new year to you as well. I’ve, I’ve enjoyed, uh, tracking your exploits here through the end of 2021 with family and, and beyond. I know we’re all excited about a, uh, a really a better year for all in 2022. So on today’s episode, Jenny, the, one of the things we’ve really enjoyed doing is working with you and the SAEX team on this supply chain leadership across Africa series had some home run guests, and we’re gonna continue that today. Aren’t we, Jenny

Jenny Froome (01:14):

Starting the year off with one of my favorites.

Scott Luton (01:17):

Wonderful. And a, if it’s one of Jenny firm’s favorites, you know, we can’t go wrong. So quick reminder, Jenny fr serves as COO of SAP pick, which is doing wonderful work from a professional development and networking standpoint. So check them out@sappickssapics.org. Okay. So speaking of one of Jenny FRS favorites, should I say that three times fast Jenny FRS favorites? Uh, we have an incredible guest joining us today. Join me in welcoming. Azuka Chukwuelue CEO of the Africa resource center for excellence in supply chain management. Auca how we doing?

Azuka Okeke (01:54):

I’m doing great, Scott. Thank you for having me on the show and thank you, Jenny. You’re one of my favorites too.

Scott Luton (02:01):

<laugh> that’s. That is what a, uh, what a compliment to start to show off with Ozuka we’ve been tracking you a little bit, you know, uh, I know we got with Jenny and, and uh, of course your ears have been burning. We’re we’re all big fans of the work that you’re doing and really excited to share a little bit of that here today on supply chain now, but before we do that, let’s get to know Ozuka a little bit better from a, from a human standpoint. So tell us Zuka where did you grow up and give us, you know, give us the goods on your upbringing a little bit.

Azuka Okeke (02:31):

Okay. <laugh> well, I grew up in Nigeria. I’m from Nigeria, I’m from the Eastern part of Nigeria. They call us the IBO, um, a tribe in the Southeastern part of Nigeria. Um, I was in one of the cities there, um, and all my nursery, primary, secondary university in one state. So, wow. Then I, I got married in that state. So after a while I said to myself, I think I’ve expired in this states <laugh> so I kinda like moved, but all my growing and settling in, you know, as say modern was in one state in Nigeria before I left and moved. And so I hovering around the whole city in Nigeria. It

Scott Luton (03:19):

Well, so before, uh, cause I wanna find out where you, where you live today, but you know, growing up in that, in that one city, that one state, whether it’s food, whether it’s stuff you did outside of, of school, what was, what was something you really, uh, identify with as part of your childhood or upbringing?

Azuka Okeke (03:36):

It was, I think the city I grew up in it’s called a new group. Um, it’s on a hill and it’s quite healing. So one of the things I enjoyed, you know, during that period was I used to take long walks. I could, I never liked transportation. I would walk from <laugh> like hours everywhere you ask me to go. I would rather walk than, you know, take a enter transport system. So because all along the road, you see trees, you will be climbing up going down. So it was always fun. So it’s something that I miss now where I stay in, uh, because I do like taking long walks and I grew up doing that.

Scott Luton (04:18):

I love it. That, that, that just, just hearing you share that, uh, uh, helps my mental state of mind. Jenny, I Don dunno about you. <laugh> yeah. So one final question. And, and then, and then Jenny, I might ask both of y’all about this traveling question, but one final question. Zuka where do you live now? What’s home now.

Azuka Okeke (04:36):

Uh, I’m in Lagos, the mother city in Nigeria. <laugh> so you can understand, um, it’s um, I mean, I mean, from Sensus, it says we have 23 million people living in this small city. Wow. Very small mass. Um, it’s highly populated, but it is the energy space in 90 Nigeria. If you in Lego, we never sleep. So 24 hours of busy, busy, busy. So it’s is a firearm from, uh, from where I grew up. But it’s, it’s where it’s happening in Nigeria though.

Scott Luton (05:07):

Evidently now. Yeah. Did my ears fail me? Or did you say 23 million people? Yes. Wow. Okay. <laugh> so well, we’ve got plenty of good stuff. Talk about when it comes to supply chains then with, with that kind, uh, uh, vibrant community. All right. So one final question. Before I pass Baton to my dear friend, Jenny from, you know, I have heard our scout team has been tracking you and, and we hear that you’re prior to these crazy times, now you traveled all the time, traveled a lot. So Zuka, what’s been one, you know, it’s tough. All, always pick a favorite, but what’s one of your favorite places to visit and maybe you’ll get back out. Once we get through the, you know, the pandemic, what’s one of your favorite places to visit and why

Azuka Okeke (05:52):

I visited one, um, city one time in, um, the Netherlands it’s called dam. It’s, uh, it’s so beautiful because it’s, it’s kind of like a village. It’s not a city. And, um, cause I do take walks anywhere I go, I always look for the track to walk all through the road. You see beautiful flowers, you see the dams and the, you know, the fam yard. It’s just one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever visited. So for me, VO dam, yes is one of my most favorite wonderful.

Scott Luton (06:28):

Now you know that you’re gonna have to send us some pictures when you get back out and you’re taking these beautiful walks. Otherwise it didn’t happen as I hear my kids. Tell me, so, uh, thanks for sharing Zuka Jenny. Yeah. Uh, I wanna pose the same question you, and then we can, we can move right into, you know, kinda learning more about her professional journey, but Jenny, what’s one of your favorite places to visit?

Jenny Froome (06:50):

Oh my gosh. That’s such a humongous question. Right? By the time I was 11, I’d lived in seven different countries. So I’ve sort of been to, I’ve been very lucky to live and visit so many different countries, right? At the moment I have a real yearning to go to Thailand. Um, I think it’s one of the places that I enjoy and relax the most and have met such amazing, gentle welcome in people. But anywhere right now, anywhere I would like to travel to I’ll get on that plane and I’ll be there. So ASCO and I, I think first met in Benin and then we met officially properly in Chicago. So our relationship is an international one as well.

Azuka Okeke (07:36):

Jenny, I think before Chicago, just sorry, Scott, we met in Dubai one conference. Oh,

Jenny Froome (07:43):

We met in Dubai. That’s right. As well. You were,

Azuka Okeke (07:46):

You came to me, you said, you know, you know, it doesn’t matter what you say. Oh, it doesn’t be listening to you. <laugh> that’s right.

Jenny Froome (07:54):

Yeah. Doesn’t matter what you say will just listen to way she says it is just so passionate. You have to, you want to listen to what it’s

Scott Luton (08:04):

Well, there’s quite a vibe also just in a little bit of time, we’ve spent, I’ve heard about the passion that comes, that comes ahead of you, uh, ahead of our, our conversation today, but the vibe and the positivity and from what I understand a ton of expertise. So let’s, I let’s get it more into that. So Jenny, I think we’re gonna talk first about kind of what Zuku has been doing previous to now, right? Yeah.

Jenny Froome (08:26):

Yeah. So we obviously are gonna move on to what you’re doing now, but so much of what you’ve done previously has led you to this place where you are now and what, what would you say are a couple of role or, or experiences that have really shaped a, your world view, but also encouraged you to get to the point that you are today?

Azuka Okeke (08:49):

I think, um, that’s a very deep question because I’ve done so many things and everything kind of counts and has shaped how I see things. But I think one, one thing that I would say along the line that has kind of shaped who I am now based on my journey before is the fact, I always like to tell people the fact that in my career, I started from the very last mile. You know, I started working at the, a clinic in a, in an underserved community and where I had to take care of, uh, my clients that, uh, were taking, uh, antiretrovirals. So those that are even with HIV and, um, HIV and aids, so having to work with them and having to convince them or encourage them to keep taking their medicine, building relationships, you know, in that small clinic. And it turned out that even before we set up a, a unit that before any patient would be put on medication, they would have to consult me because of the, I would say the passion I had working with clients to make sure that they start their treatment understanding when they stop their treatment and having that impact to know that, you know, it’s a difficult journey that actually shaped even my thinking process at the very, you know, at this leadership position.

Azuka Okeke (10:23):

So when I’m making decisions, um, when I’m, I’m trying to convince the country I’m coming from the angle that I know these clients, I know the people where, where talking about, I have an understanding of even their family issues and how challenging it is to come to pick up your medicines. So I think that really that experience starting from that very lower end really has helped all through my journey to this point.

Jenny Froome (10:50):

And, and presumably also then ignited an interest in the, how the medication got to the last mile, et cetera, et cetera. So they’re in the segue right into what it is that, that the Africa resource center for supply chain excellence in Nigeria is actually all about. Um, and you know, obviously we’ve, I’ve watched this progression and I’ve watched you as a leader and, you know, series is all about leaders in Africa. And for me, you are an epitome of, of that because of your desire to see people succeed and people be educated and the professionalization of supply chain management, all of that, that you believe in is coming through loud and clear through the organization. So as a, in your role, as where do you find currently, you’re kind of spending most of your time and, and, and how are you guiding all these initiatives forward

Azuka Okeke (11:54):

Most? I mean, um, if you, if you ask me before I even became a CEO, my primary goal was to educate the nation. You know, when I got into the leadership position, um, um, you know, in a, when I was told to come and help the act, because before then my, my focus was, um, public private collaboration in, in all areas of health. That was what I was doing, but they told me, oh, come and do this for a because, but it’s speaking to supply chain and you know what I said the first time, because I had done supply chain along the line in our own way. I said, oh, supply chain is boring.

Scott Luton (12:32):

Supply Z. Hey, really quick. I found, when you say the arc, are you talking about Africa resource center? Is that right? Yes. Just to connect with folks. Okay. I gotcha. Yes.

Azuka Okeke (12:42):

So the Africa resource center, because the, the arc is an initiative that was settle across multiple countries. So I was told to come and help set up the one in Nigeria. And I said, oh, what, all’s this a and I said, oh, it has to do with supply chain. We just want you to bring in this, your, your expertise in public private partnerships, you know, to supply chain. I said, oh, supply chain is boring. I’ve done it before, you know, <laugh> but then, you know, going, having, coming to the a, you know, trying to answer patient, I realized, okay, let’s, let’s get into this supply chain business with government and how we facilitate the relationships. And I realized that, um, in, in Africa and even more, more so in Nigeria where we thought we had people that had the background in supply chain understood supply chain to make the decision, because it is what you understand that you can then make an informed decision.

Azuka Okeke (13:38):

It was clear that we had a lot of people in government that didn’t even know the difference between logistics and supply chain and they were in places of leadership. So it was an obvious that we were in what were seeing the problems, not because people were not willing to, you know, make the right decisions, just that people didn’t really know what decisions to make. So one of the things I did was really to make, I, I always call it, make a lot of noise that we need to build internal capacity. We need to bring in resources to do that. And I’m happy that that’s really engendered a lot of, you know, invest now where I sit my focus because good thing say C a C a lot of folks are in the continent and really trying to strengthen, you know, we have the Kaizen Institute, so many people Kua foundation.

Azuka Okeke (14:31):

So I think we’ve lived the foundation. And then it’s now for investments to strengthen education and research. My focus now, as CEO really is now to re you know, redirect the, the, the government in Nigeria to now start investing in local manufacturing. For me, local manufacturing of pharmaceuticals of medicines is now the key, um, um, public health issue because of what we saw with COVID pandemic. And in the, in the continent, we were not looking at it before we were only looking at distribution, but now that is what I’m looking at now, how do we actually have this meds? Things are really in the continent.

Jenny Froome (15:12):

Yeah. Yeah. It was a presentation that you did last year. Well, two years ago now, where you, you mentioned the appalling percentage of, of pharmaceuticals that are actually manufactured on the continent. I think it was 3%. I can’t remember if it was even that high, but that was a real eye eye opener for me. And I, you know, I just think that how many of us don’t understand the, the, the lack of local manufacturing. Um, and I think that you, you know, this, this work that you are setting out to do of, of huge importance, um, and again, you know, it goes back to that whole thing out how 90% of what we do or did do before the silver lining that COVID brought was that educating people about what supply chain management actually is. And now we don’t need to do that. We can actually launch into a conversation and use supply chain management without people glazing over, because they understand the importance of it. So, you know, we, we, we look for small positives these days, but that’s actually one of them.

Scott Luton (16:17):

That’s right. Really quick, Jen. Sorry, go. If I can. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I know you’re about to ask her her Eureka moment, but two quick things, first off, I love that make a lot of noise, a mantra that you’ve mentioned. I love that I’m gonna blatantly steal that. We’ve got our episode title. Now make a lot of noise with Zuka. OK. K <laugh> but <laugh>, but secondly, I love how, you know, supply chain’s boring. You know, that’s one of our podcasts here. That’s, we’ve heard that phrase a lot. And I think we all, along for the days, few years back where supply chains truly were boring, right? Because there wasn’t quite as curve balls as there are now, but nevertheless, the silver lining is we’re gonna be better as the industry based on the challenges and how we’ve had to overcome continuing how to overcome and innovate, do things better and stronger. And what I love, what I heard you say is Zuka is identify these these long hell, these, these ecosystem C challenges and address that. So bring manufacturing production to the continent, to gain some more things within our control, which is really important. So, uh, so much there, but I, I really appreciate what you shared. Okay. So Jenny, now that I’ve joined the Auca KK fan club, along with you officially Eureka moments, right.

Jenny Froome (17:36):

I don’t charge much. I promise <laugh>. Yeah. So, so yeah, exactly. So in everything that you’ve done and from the, the sort of, you know, from where you’ve started to where you are now, and in your current role and with the current trajectory of, of the, of the center of excellence, um, then what, what’s been a real Eureka moment for you, something that has really stood out, stood out for you and

Azuka Okeke (18:04):

Made you think, I think, um, two things, not necessarily one, but the first one, you know, like I mentioned earlier, when we started this journey, my goal was to get the leaders in Nigeria and also across Africa to even understand that you guys are not supply, you know, they’ll say, oh, we are supply chain experts. You know, you’ll be having meetings in Nigeria and they’ll tell you, oh, we’re going to export supply chain talent across Africa. I’m like, what <laugh> do you know what supply chain management is? And, you know, having to, you know, being cautious of, um, I was initially rejected. A lot of agencies didn didn’t want to do anything with a M because I was pushing this mandate. I was saying, we need to get the right certification. We need to get the right education. We need to have universities begin to teach people and give you proper degrees.

Azuka Okeke (18:57):

And many agencies didn’t wanna hear that. They pushed me out of their meetings. So I, I remember one moment was when I en I, um, I was able to convince, um, B MGF and this is true, Jenny, it’s not because of you. I was able to convince BM, GF. I said, okay, Tom, you need to get, um, some of these leaders to say conference in South Africa. Why? Because I had attended the apex conference in Chicago, and I said to myself, wow, the reason you huge difference, we don’t do supply chain in Nigeria. So Tom agreed on a cm, brought some folks and they attended the conference. AF when they got back to Nigeria, I was just entering my office and I received a call. And, uh, it was, uh, pharmacist liners. And he said to me, I want to say something to you. I said, okay, go ahead, sir.

Azuka Okeke (19:53):

He said, you know, I used to say, we knew supply chain. I said, yes. I said, I attended this conference and I want to say, thank you. I said, okay. He said, now I know, I don’t know anything supply <laugh>. He said, now I know after years of calling himself supply chain expert, he says, now I know, I don’t know supply chain for me. I was like, yes, we’re getting somewhere. So that one, it was, um, it was good. The second one is coming into, um, when we, I was really getting into it, working so hard and country and doing the right things and writing the right support, sending it. I remember, I dunno if you know, Prada, I had a meeting with Presant and he was in, he had invited me to <inaudible> in Harbor. So we’re having like, just sitting out and talking.

Azuka Okeke (20:49):

And I think we were talking and then after talking, he said, I said, what do you mean by, by my voice? He said, whatever you’re doing, nobody knows it. You are doing a great job, but you’ve got to find a way to communicate that it, it was a strange thing. But then I went back and I, I started looking, well, how do I find my voice? And that was how the noise began. It wasn’t meant to be noise. It was meant to say, well, this is what the country’s doing. And I’ll put it out there in Twitter. I’ll put it out there in LinkedIn. You know, what was the Eureka moment? People tried to shut me down. They said, oh, no, no. Why are you talking? Stop, stop posting. You’re trying to, I’m like, no, say the good things happening. It’s not always about the challenges, any mouse, don’t bring it out there. So for me is the fact that I needed that statement. Find your voice was an ment. What was that? Yes.

Scott Luton (21:48):

I love that. You know, there, there are so many challenges in this day and age, and there’s always been challenges in supply chain, right. There just hasn’t, hasn’t had as much attention as it has now. But to your point Zuka, if we sit back and we talk about how big that problem is, and gosh, what are we gonna do? Nothing will ever get done. So I love the, your, you know, your key point there on your second Eureka moment. So we’ve gotta move right along. I want to ask really quick, cause I want to get to your thoughts and you and Jenny thoughts on the supply chain ecosystem in Nigeria. But, you know, as you established, as we’ve done our homework on you, you’ve got a lot of expertise in creating very successful private sector or public sector collaborations. Right. And, uh, there seems to be a lot of, uh, big wins already there in, in those types of, of collaborations, but also a lot more opportunity. So speak to that a bit. What, why are you really passionate about those types of collaborations and what kind of opportunity are you seeing there moving forward?

Azuka Okeke (22:50):

Thank you very much. You know, the whole idea of having an a resource center was basically to, you know, in the whole, in the same ecosystem, you will see where government or the public sector is having challenges maybe around distribution, but that same ecosystem, you see private sector thriving. So it was something that was always the drive is how do we leverage the strength? How do we bring in private sector for government to leverage and all that. But in, in that journey, it wasn’t as simple as bring a company, you know, go to Johnson and Johnson and ask them for their expert from teach government. And that has never worked. Really. One of the things that we realized was, um, the ecosystem has to exist whereby you look at the supply chain systems in Africa, they are at the, what we would call highly immature, meaning that from the beginning of the plan, to the end of the plan, you need different private sector resources.

Azuka Okeke (23:58):

Even to the point of writing a proposal because of the limitations, expertise and experience within the private sector or within the public sector. So we looked at it from that angle and said, okay, this is a huge problem, but it is not something we can solve. One thing we need to do is not just to think of companies that will come and solve one problem because solving one problem will not give us the outcomes we’re trying to address. It’s having a platform or platform structure, where you have multiple companies coexist. You prepare them and you get them ready. So that at any point that there is a need. The response time of collaboration is shortened. That is a part of, of it. Because remember that you are dealing with two institutions. If a government says, I need private sector resources, you’ve got to go to the private sector institution.

Azuka Okeke (24:58):

And it takes time. You will spend a lot of time writing concept note, engaging the government by the time you are, is that demand. That’s like seven months and the government’s oh, we <laugh> that’s reality. So one of the things you need to look at in one of the things that we, it’s, not that people are not doing PPP it’s how do we make public private sector collaborations in supply chain responsive? Because the once there’s a demanding need to address it or else we’re gonna have issues down. The, so what we’ve thought of is setting up structured platforms have companies, and that’s where the opportunity lies companies and multiple companies, because supply chain problems does not necessarily need a supply chain solution.

Scott Luton (25:44):

All right, right. Say that a little bit louder for air for those in the back. That’s a really great point there. Say it again.

Azuka Okeke (25:51):

Supply chain problems doesn’t necessarily need a supply chain solution. So if you wanna solve a supply chain problem, you’ve got to have a whole Gar of solutions. If you have a, a solution that addresses one thing, you may not solve the end goal that’s as matter as it is. So we have these platforms where we have companies that register and we not just register and keep them, we educate them in how to work with government, prepare them because that’s very key. So that once there’s a demand, our hope is to have a response time of collaboration of one. We wow. And we’ve been achieving that in some instances, we get a day collaboration and we sign a contract.

Scott Luton (26:35):

Okay. So there’s so much more there. I really appreciate you shutting light on that. You know, you know, uh, government must exist. Of course the public sector must exist the private sector. And there’s so much that, that you’re kind of alluding to that. Not just government and public sector can learn from the private sector, but, but the sharing that each of those areas can learn from each other to get stuff done and to get stuff done in a timely manner. Right. And that’s the, that’s perhaps one of the biggest man when you, when you can really orchestrate that and get stuff done and, and, and move timeframes from seven months to a week, seven days. Yeah. Uh, you’ve really, you’ve really done stuff, move mountains. So we’ll have to have you back as you could talk more about the art of that orchestration, but Jenny, for now mm-hmm <affirmative>, since we are talking about supply chain now and zeroing in on, uh, this brilliant thought leader here that just so happens to be very active Nigeria, what, what are we looking to learn from Asuka next?

Jenny Froome (27:36):

Yeah. So Auca obviously for those people who haven’t been to Nigeria, it’s very hard to, to understand the, the, the constraints perhaps, um, and the challenges that exist. So, so from your perspective, regarding the supply chain ecosystem in Nigeria, you’ve already alluded to the vast number of people that live in the country. What are the other challenges that come to mind that you can share with, with the, so

Azuka Okeke (28:06):

I think the great challenges we face, uh, in Nigeria is the, I’ll say the structural challenges, the structures are not, they don’t exist literally in most areas. So, and then it’s, it’s quite a painful, real reality cause of the amount events investments made in, in Nigeria. And, um, that was, um, that’s just one of the major things that we’ve seen. And, you know, in donor investments, the agreement has always been that donors would invest maybe in the commodities and also in providing technical assistance, the government, they were to put in the structures they were to put in the right people, provide the right people that will be trained and have the infrastructure to, you know, to take it in institutionalized solutions. Um, unfortunately that part that the government was meant to do, hasn’t been done quite well. Not for the fact that, like I said, that it’s, it’s, it’s not for the fact that they didn’t want to do that.

Azuka Okeke (29:09):

It’s that we didn’t really spend time with the donor investments to really find out the best way to do this and make sure there’s proper buying. So for us, the major challenge now is how do you get everybody to say stop, let’s stop putting it, putting in investments. That won’t really, really, um, I’ll say that next, next year, you won’t see what the investment has addressed. You know, we need to slow it down and begin a journey. I call it the journey to sustainability. It is not going to happen overnight because infrastructure they’re required. The right human resource structure is required. Having to tell the donors to hold off a bit, slow down a bit. Don’t be so quick to put down money and having to tell the government, well, if you want the money, you’ve got to put down the structure for me, that is the major, you know, the roots that, or the routes let use the right, right frame that we all need to take.

Azuka Okeke (30:08):

That’s the major challenge. It’s not for the, that. We don’t have donor money. If they keep coming, it’s gonna be down the, you know, the drain. That’s really the reality. And for people like me that make a lot of noise, have been making that noise. I said, stop putting money in the system. Don’t come blaming the country. Don’t put anything in the media that says 24 million invested in Nigeria. Then we don’t know, know where you’re not gonna do that. So hold us, wait for direction, wait for the right policies in place strategies in place, work plans, let go back to business principles that private sector have used, use those and then begin to look at core investments, not full investments states that are willing to put cash on the table. I like to say cash because it’s money on the table. Then we start talking. So for me, yes, that’s where we’re going.

Scott Luton (31:01):

All right. So Jenny, um, and you’re not gonna

Jenny Froome (31:04):

Argue with that. Are you Scott? No,

Scott Luton (31:06):

No, no, but, but I am gonna pick on just a, one of the things that she shared earlier in that answer is, uh, the power of the timeout, right? We, we, you know, we all get into the blocking and tackling and the firefighting and, and, and you know, the day in and day out, you know, but that’s very powerful and simple gesture to keep in mind. Sometimes you gotta say, okay, everybody stop, stop what you’re doing. Right. You, you hear that phrase, you know, flying the jet while we’re building the jet. And, and, and, you know, we do some of that. You gotta do some of that sometimes, but to your point as Zuka, you know, if you don’t, you know, folks and there owners you’re speaking to are making these big investments and it’s not set up to win those investments, won’t, won’t keep coming. And, and then the, the growth and the success innovation and moving everything forward is not sustainable. Right. So I love how you think that that power of the timeout is such a great Eureka moment. I’m pulling away from this conversation one of many. Okay. So you’ve spoken a little bit and Jenny, I’m gonna give you a chance based on what she shared there, what sticks out to you before I, I, you know, move forward and, and ask her more broadly.

Jenny Froome (32:13):

Yeah. It’s, it’s the, it goes back to that whole basis of accountability, doesn’t it? I mean, it’s like, you can be given as much as you think you need, but until you are accountable for how you spend it or what you do with it, it’s never gonna be an effective solution.

Scott Luton (32:29):

Yeah. Well said, well said, and a lot fewer words than I, you, you always do that. Jenny, you can pick those seven great words. <laugh> you don’t need eight, just use seven. I love that. All right. So, uh, Zuka um, really have enjoyed what you’ve shared already. We’re gonna have to have you back so we can expound more on some of this stuff. So when you look at the broader global supply chain, you know, these, these are despite all the challenges and, and, you know, um, there’s not, there’s been no short. It still has been a, an exceptional time to be in global supply chain. Right? So in your words, and then from where you sit, what’s a couple of things that are really front and center when it comes to topics in global supply chain, uh, in your mind,

Azuka Okeke (33:14):

When I think, um, global supply chain is now, one of the key things we are beginning to appreciate is the role of thought leaders thought leadership. I think it’s becoming more significant, you know, um, people that can look at things from that broad perspective and begin to look at, you know, how they address it in context. So I think, um, those are some of the wins, you know, despite the challenges of COVID, we, we now see, they need to listen to one another to say, well, well, what’s happening in India? What’s what’s going on over there in the us. And I think for me is also the fact that the pandemic has made us look at things globally more unlike before it was more like this is an Africa pro this is an issue. Um, we have the funding coming from one direction. Now I’m interested in knowing how us is solving the COVID immunization.

Azuka Okeke (34:09):

You know, what are the patterns? What are the challenges? So, for me, it is right now where we, I think it’s the learning the opportunity to learn across continent nations, where all struggling with the same thing and, um, the, the variance and the COVID, they think they’re smart, but I think they’re making us smart, sad, but then it’s, it’s the reality. We, we, we, we are having smarter people. We’re having people looking at things more broadly, and we are coming to communities like this to share our thoughts. So for me, is thought leadership and opportunity to learn globally is really what’s coming out forefront

Scott Luton (34:49):

For me, Jenny, uh, your response to that.

Jenny Froome (34:53):

Yeah. It’s the human relationships. I think it’s that human contact that, that people are realizing that, you know, before it was all about your, your digitization and your technology, et cetera. But if you don’t have the fundamental human input and elements and the collaboration, then, then it’s a bit of a lost cause. And I think that that’s something that’s definitely come more and more and more to the fall.

Scott Luton (35:20):

I agree with you. I agree with both of you, you know, there has been, we just, we, we ha have to harp on it all the time, because when you’re going through tough stretches, this has been really tough stretch for all of us globally, to, to your point of Zuka sometimes you gotta kind of focus on the gains. You’re still making, right. You gotta the innovation. You know, when I see, I see workforce safety, which really has come in meaningful ways to the forefront workforce, flexibility you, the voice of the employee, these trends really were ex uh, um, uh, amplified in the last couple years. You know, I look get, you know, how supply chains are looking at some of the problems that beca were, were were secondary forever, or at least for a long time that now their front center, their, their priorities, one, a, B, and C, and it’s changing.

Scott Luton (36:10):

It’s not just changing the, the industry, but it’s changing and presenting new opportunities for folks globally, right. And on different levels. So I’m optimistic. And it sounds like y’all are optimistic as well when we get through the end of this stretch. And we can at least say, at least say, not that COVID is going away. At least say the pandemic is over, right. I’m not a doctor, but I think we can get there. You know, we’re gonna learn so much for generations to come from what we’ve been through these last few years. And that’s a, that’s a really good thing. And by the way, as we all can agree, the, the supply chain practitioner and the visibility of that profession and the opportunities, and, and to some degree, the prestige of that, that’s a great thing for bringing lots of talent everywhere into the into. So whether it’s in Africa, uh, north America, you name it. That’s great for everybody mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. So

Jenny Froome (37:06):

I’m just gonna add one thing that Greg white mentioned in an interview, we did eons ago at the beginning of all of this. And he said, he hopes that the supply chain practitioner he’s been shouting for that C seat at the table is ready for the seat at the table. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I think that, you know, that’s something else that, okay, so now we’ve got the attention on the profession now, what, and that’s the critical point that I think maybe we’ve gone past the, the, the main point and everyone’s really thinking about it, but I think that to your point, Scott goes that opportunity. There is so much opportunity that’s out there

Scott Luton (37:43):

Agreed to that point. So Zuka, I’d love to get your, kind of your final thoughts before we make sure folks can know how to connect with you and the Africa resource center for excellence in supply chain management. So Zuka, as we talk about, you know, what you share there and kinda moving forward good and bad, you know, what’s your final thought in terms of, um, the year that lays in front of us here?

Azuka Okeke (38:10):

I think, um, it’s going to be an amazing 20, 22 for us in Nigeria. We have, um, I call, I call it more responsive and responsible government meant, um, that are now beginning to adopt, um, you know, business practices and strengthening supply chains, particularly within the public health sector. What that means is that as we have more states in Nigeria, come up with clear work plans and, um, budgets, we then need to have the private sector in place. And just like what Jenny said, you know, the last statement is the challenges. The challenge we have is do we then have enough adequate prepared private sector to, you know, begin to call that is our greatest challenge right now. It’s no longer the governments, the governments now understand what to do, and they’re going about it. Where are the local companies, where are the, um, global companies that have local footprints? We wanna see more of them, um, work with us or be in our platform. So for us, for the year to be a success, we really hope to have more, um, lo um, private sector companies, academia, uh, institutions that provide education that are ready to work with our government. So for me, looking forward more of that, yes,

Scott Luton (39:37):

I love that. Okay. And it needs, you know, uh, it needs great thought leaders that, uh, are rooted in a bias for action, not just lip service and, and with between Auca and Jenny and your respective organizations, that’s what it takes. So I really admire y’all’s your, your, your action focus leadership and that at regard. Okay. So to that end, Auca KK CEO of the Africa resource center for excellence in supply chain management. How can folks connect with you and learn more about your organization?

Azuka Okeke (40:09):

Excellent. Um, is connecting with people. One is, um, I mean, I’m on LinkedIn. Um, Zuka okay. I’m very visible. <laugh> so please folks can connect with me directly via my LinkedIn. Um, Zuka OK. Just go, AKA. Okay. Can you see me? And then also, I mean, Jenny has all my contact details, so I would also want people to reach out to Jenny. She knows how to, you know, I, I never say no to Jenny I’m I’m yet to get to the point, Jenny. So <laugh> anyone. And of course I’m always willing to be in platforms where I can educate people about what we do, because we do want, um, you know, to use our time, well, this year, you know, in educating folks. So there are platforms where we can talk about our work and where we are definitely I’m interested. So if there’s a company that want to have like a mini presentation or something like that, I’m always willing. So I think I’m easy to connect with. Thank you. I

Scott Luton (41:11):

Love that Zuka and it’s good to be easy to connect with, and that’s how we help to create those free flow, uh, ideas and, and new practices. Not, not necessarily best practices because to what y’all both are speaking to, we gotta have a lot of new practices, maybe new non supply chain practices, who knows. All right. So Jenny, let’s make sure, uh, how folks know how to connect with you and SAEX.

Jenny Froome (41:38):

Yep. Thank you. We’re also on LinkedIn. Uh, we’ve got the SAEX company page, that’s SAP, ICS, um, and, uh, and I’m also active on LinkedIn and also Twitter. I love my Twitter. I know P some people don’t, but I enjoy it. I think it’s my attention span. It appeals to best of all, but Jenny free and you’ll find me

Scott Luton (42:01):

Wonderful. And, and, and yes, you’ve gotta connect with Jenny, uh, all those places, but especially Twitter. She is a great Twitter follow. Um, okay. So, uh, big, thanks to a zoo KK with, again, with the, uh, Africa resource center for excellence in supply chain management. Uh, thank you so much. Zuka

Jenny Froome (42:22):

Thank you very much, Scott. And thank you very much, Jenny. You bet,

Scott Luton (42:26):

But don’t go away just yet, because we’re gonna talk about you as if you’re not still in the room in the zoom room with us. Uh, Jenny, we’ve got just an extra minute or two before we wrap here today. Zuka shared a lot in roughly 50 minutes, right. And, you know, I feel like I’m, I’m ready to run through the wall behind me, based on a lot of what she shared. She’s very, very inspiring. What was your favorite part from what she shared here today?

Jenny Froome (42:53):

So much? And I, as always, it’s always like, you feel like you’ve been passed by a whirlwind whenever you’ve had the privilege of listening to all the ideas and not just ideas as UCA is one of those people who does actually do the doing as well. Um, and, and really is a, is an example to all of us of don’t just talk actually do and also make the noise. Um, so I think, I think the making the noise, there’s making a noise and there’s making a constructive noise. And I think that she’s got that down to her. You’ve got that down to Hert. Um, and also I love that comment about the clever variance and us becoming clever. And we really, from, from her work from her lips to whoever’s listening, please may that be, so

Scott Luton (43:41):

That agreed that, that, that was really, it’s really brilliant to hear that in, in that positive spin, oh gosh, all these variants that have come after us. Oh, no, there’s a new one. There is, there is a, anyway it seems like every week, every week’s release, it’s like technology.

Jenny Froome (43:57):

That must just go away

Scott Luton (43:58):

Now, please. Yes, please. But I I’ll just add one more thing to that. There was so much there that, that make a lot of noise that that’s a mantra folks I think can rally around. Um, uh, but also, I, I think it’s really important out of all the things she shared. One of my favorites was, uh, non supply chain solutions because the way perceive that it’s, as we learned these last couple years, but as we’ve been learning for longer beyond pandemic, we can’t, we can’t sit on laurels of what has worked previously. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, we can’t sit on laurels of what has ha has worked for different parts of the world. And only for certain parts of the world, we can’t sit on any of that stuff. We gotta constantly look in the mirror and, and, and, and really question, okay, what’s the ramifications, what’s the repercussions, you know, uh, we can’t sit over, sit on our hands and look at the same old tired solutions.

Scott Luton (44:47):

So I love that. I love that thinking as Zuki, you’re a breather for fresh share Jenny as always. You always are. I love these conversations with you and, uh, big, thanks to Jenny fr and SAP pick. Let’s do another one again soon next month, I guess. Right, Jenny? Yeah, that would be great. All right. Big, thanks again, Jenny fr with SAP pick big, thanks. Uh, Zuka KK with the African resource center for excellence, supply management folks. You heard it here can, there’s so much to act on with what you hear Zuka share here today. Hopefully you enjoy the conversation as much as I have. Um, you know, if you like conversations like this fines spot chain now and subscribe schmancy thing, but more importantly, most importantly challenge you, Hey, be like, Ozuka do good give forward, but be the change that’s needed. And on that note, we’ll see next time, right back here on supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (45:42):

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