Ever wonder how Greg White knows about so many different supply chain technology companies? Well, Greg has walked the walk and can talk the talk. As a technology company founder himself, Greg has a unique perspective on what it takes to be successful in today’s HOT Supply Chain Tech market. Listen in as Greg highlights a few of his favorite TECHquilla Sunrise episodes and shares how he’s helping rapid-growth technology companies, venture capital and private equity firms navigate the next wave of disruptive supply chain technology innovation.

Intro (00:01):

Welcome to TEKTOK, a digital supply chain podcast, where we will help you eliminate the noise and focus on the information and inspiration that you need to transform your business, impact, supply chain success, and enable you to replace risky inventory with valuable insights. Join your TEKTOK host, Karin Bursa, the 2020 Supply Chain Pro To Know Of The Year. With more than 25 years of supply chain and technology expertise and the scars to prove it, Karin has the heart of a teacher and has helped nearly 1,000 customers transform their businesses and tell their success stories. Join the conversation, share your insights, and learn how to harness technology innovations to drive tangible business results. Buckle up, it’s time for TEKTOK, powered by Supply Chain Now.

Karin Bursa (01:13):

Okay. Welcome supply chain movers and shakers. Karin Bursa here, your host for TEKTOK, a digital supply chain podcast. You know, it has been a crazy year, an unprecedented year, disastrous year disruptive year, a challenging year, a resilient year. Maybe a little inspiring as well. You choose the adjective that’s right for your situation. And you may have to look at what day it is on the calendar to decide. But if you and your supply chain team are still standing, I want you to pat yourself on the back because you’ve done it. You’re making it through. And you are dealing with unprecedented volatility. And simply surviving in the midst of so many disruptions, so many economic challenges, personal challenges, health challenges, educational challenges is quite an achievement. Congratulations.

Karin Bursa (02:03):

In fact, because of your hard work, we are also seeing a record number of publicly held companies that are reporting, not only record earnings, but record profitability. And why you may ask, well, that’s all got to do with you. It’s all about supply chain performance. So, they are actually thriving in the midst of this chaos, in the midst of this disruption. And once again, supply chain performance is on center stage just where it belongs. And our host – I’m so used to introducing him as our host. Our guest today here on TEKTOK is the one and only Mr. Greg White. And, Greg, thanks for joining us today.

Greg White (02:50):

Yeah. My pleasure. That was quite the lead in. And you’re right, it has been an incredible challenge for everybody. And I think the industry at large has really stepped up.

Karin Bursa (03:01):

It really has. And, you know, this past year for me has been one where I’ve made new connections. I’ve gained some new perspective. I joined the Supply Chain Now team. I got to know you. I got to know our audience a little bit. And it has really been just a lot of fun. A lot of fun to put our brains together and think about kind of the next moves and where the industry is going. And I appreciate our audience. But I also want our audience to know that their inspiration may be right around the corner. Greg, people find it hard to believe, but here you and I have been in the supply chain for – what do we say? I think we’ve capped it, right?

Greg White (03:43):

More than two decades. That’s our limit.

Karin Bursa (03:47):

More than two decades. Just right around two decades somewhere.

Greg White (03:49):

So, if it’s just the two of us, we can say, well more than two decades.

Karin Bursa (03:53):

We started as young children. But, anyway, we have been not only in the same industry, but in the same city, in Atlanta, in supply chain city. But Greg and I did not know each other before last year. Greg, we met in March of 2020.

Greg White (04:11):

Wow. Is that right? It seems like we’ve known each other longer, you know. But, yet, I knew that it was relatively recently. But, man, that’s incredible.

Karin Bursa (04:23):

Is that crazy?

Greg White (04:23):

It is. I mean, because, I’ve been in Atlanta since the mid-90s and I think I’ve worked at two different companies that arguably competed with yours or at least was in kind of an adjacent space in the industry. So, stunning that we haven’t met.

Karin Bursa (04:43):

It’s really hard to believe. And I’m so thankful I got to meet you through Scott Luton and through Supply Chain Now.

Greg White (04:52):

A great connector.

Karin Bursa (04:53):

He’s a great connector, isn’t he? But, Greg, you have been at the center of so many technology innovations around supply chain. Currently, your resume is very long right now. So, you’re going to have to help me out. But I see you as the host of TECHquila Sunrise, which is a podcast that you have launched to talk about technology and innovation and helping companies that are hitting some of those inflection points. You’re also co-host of Supply Chain Now, co-host of The Buzz, and you’ve got this whole other life in the area of supply chain technology as well. So, tell us a little bit about what you’re doing day in and day out.

Greg White (05:34):

Sure. Well, so I exited a company that I founded called Blue Ridge in 2018. And then, I went on to work for a company called CURO, that some friends of mine in the industry realized need some help, needed to kind of level up their performance. And I was there for just about a-year-and-a-half and we managed to make that company valuable. It was not your traditional kind of exit, but we got good value for the founders and for the original investors. And, actually, that company is still operating, and may, yet, another exit again. But after that, after I left CURO, then I started taking board seats and advisory roles. So, I’ve worked with a number of companies, particularly in the Atlanta area and particularly in supply chain tech. So, I’ve worked with a company called Yards, which is a construction tech company. I’m currently working with Verusen, who is, hopefully, soon to be a unicorn, an Atlanta unicorn that’s in indirect and direct materials management and data harmonization. A term I had to learn, by the way, Karin. And last but not least in terms of tech companies, I’m working with a company called Flourish, which is in the cannabis supply chain space, which is fun. It’s a really, really interesting space. Anyway, there’s more I can tell you about that.

Greg White (07:08):

And then, I also worked with a number of investment based firms as well. So, I’m a venture partner at Kubera Venture Capital, which is an early stage pre-seed, seed, and A round investor. And the area that I focus on, of course, is supply chain. But we invest in industry 4.0 and that sort of thing, and future of work, and a couple of other just really innovative areas. And we’ve got a really great cross section of investors there. And then, I work with PeakSpan Capital, which is a growth equity, kind of the next tier up in investment. And I’m what’s called a sector expert. So, when they find someone –

Karin Bursa (07:46):

Supply chain sector expert?

Greg White (07:50):

Yes. Right. I’m a one trick pony. But when they find a company, I helped them evaluate it. I may consult or advise with the founders or even CEO there, and help them understand what’s going on in the supply chain space. And then, I also work with an investment bank called Clarity Capital Advisors. An old friend of mine named Steve Keaveney, who was instrumental in helping me get funding for a couple of my companies. And I guess that’s kind of a give back. Though, Steve still offers way more value to me than I ever have to him. But, yeah, that’s what I do. I’m trying to keep my hand in a number of these companies. I may even have another venture up my sleeve. So, you know, we’ll have to see. We can talk about what it takes to really run a venture if you want.

Karin Bursa (08:39):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do think you’ve got lots of things up your sleeve. So, when I think of it, it’s just we’re going to leave it there. There’s always a few surprises and a few kind of interesting twists, I think. And one thing that I appreciate so much, Greg, is that you bring this wealth of expertise in supply chain. I mean, you’ve got hands-on supply chain expertise early in your career. And you’ve been able to apply that to solve just a number of different business opportunities, business challenges. But one thing I really like is that you’re very good at putting yourself in the seat of the customer and understanding what that supply chain practitioner needs or that supply chain executive needs in order to operate with greater visibility, or more flexibility, or more resilience. And I think that that is an important skill. I can see where in these investment sectors that that’s highly valued as a part of the equation as well. So, tell me one thing, how did you get started with Supply Chain Now? How did you get engaged in the process? Because you’re such a natural in talking through some of the latest opportunities and challenges.

Greg White (10:01):

So, it all started with the Georgia Logistics Summit. So, I just worked with Sandy Lake and a number of the folks at Georgia Center of Innovation, which has governmental agency. And they have this Georgia Logistics Summit at MODEX every year. And I participated in that one year, and I just thought I just wanted to be a part of guiding that and helping to shape that. And they were gracious enough to allow me to be on their executive board. I met a ton of really great people. John Haber, obviously, Scott Luton – gosh, I can’t even name them all. Oh, Enrique Alvarez from logistics, I met him there. And it was just a great opportunity because I had been really, really heads down in my businesses until that point. And I finally had kind of lifted my head up and decided to see who else was out there doing supply chain.

Greg White (10:59):

And that’s how I met Scott. Well, that’s how I really got engaged with Scott. I’d actually been a guest on the show in 2016 and 2017, I believe, on what was then Supply Chain Now Radio. I met him and it was just such a great voice for a small company like ours that had virtually no voice in the industry, as you know, with Logility. You guys had way more voice than we did. But we were always struggling for attention above SAP, and JDA, and all the other acronyms that are out there, you know, taking the air out of the room with marketing. So, it was a great opportunity to present our point of view. Scott asked me to first advise, which was what I was doing anyway, so I did that. And then, I got involved behind the mic, which was such a kick. And he makes it so easy as we’ve all experienced. Anyone who’s been on Supply Chain Now has experienced just how professional he is, how smooth he is, and how easy he makes it for people just to be who they are behind the mic and really share their gifts in and with the industry.

Karin Bursa (12:10):

Yeah. I really agree. And I think you and Scott paired together is just kind of a great anchor set, if you will. Your skillsets and expertise compliment each other so well that I think that there’s magic there. So, congratulations on kind of finding that niche, that opportunity, and being a reason for the growth that Supply Chain Now has seen over these past two years. I mean, it’s really growing and expanding. And I feel honored to be a part of it, a small part, but a part of the team and sharing some of the exciting things that are happening in the digital supply chain sector.

Greg White (12:51):

I really think that everybody is a big part of it. I mean, especially you, because you can give us, obviously, the planning perspective, which both you and I come from. You’re much better at the planning discipline than I am. But, also, the marketing perspective, like you said, you understand the chief supply chain officers and the companies that are trying to get value there. And, you know, what you’re doing with TEKTOK, I think, is really, really valuable to help people understand how they can utilize tech to change their business. It’s what you opened with, right? Technology, not just the people of supply chain, but the technology of supply chain is a great leverage point for companies to create the kind of opportunity and profit and resiliency that you were talking about when we kicked off. And I think that’s such an important part of it.

Greg White (13:40):

And then, we’ve got Kevin L. Jackson with Digital Transformers, and digital transformation is a huge part of supply chain and vice versa. Kelly with Dial P for Procurement.

Karin Bursa (13:50):

Kelly Barner, yeah, Dial P for Procurement.

Greg White (13:54):

Procurement is not all about supply chain, but there are a lot of aspects of it that apply to supply chain and also vice versa. And then, of course, Chris with Supply Chain is Boring, which is somehow anything, but boring.

Karin Bursa (14:06):

It is. I know. I know.

Greg White (00:14:08):

But I love the irony of that. And, Scott, who none of us could do anywhere near as much producing and content as he does. He’s got so many shows, Veteran Voices, which is a great give back; This Week in Business History; The Buzz. I think, essentially, all of the livestreams Scott participates in or at least helps produce, he’s the Jason Hoke of supply chain content.

Karin Bursa (14:36):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Let’s talk for a minute –

Greg White (14:38):

He knows how stuff works.

Karin Bursa (14:40):

How supply chain works. So, let’s focus for just a minute on TECHquila Sunrise, and really what you’re looking to bring to the industry with that particular program. Because you’ve done some interesting things that some of our listeners may not be aware of that are really innovative, and interesting, a little different. So, talk to us about that for just a moment.

Greg White (15:08):

Sure. To me, TECHquila Sunrise – it’s an important distinction because we both have tech in the names of our shows – is more about the relationship and the confluence of founders, and executives, and high growth technology, supply chain tech companies, and their teams, and shareholders, and, of course, stakeholders in terms of their clients. How do you build, and how do you fund, and how do you grow a really strong, a really powerful supply chain technology company? And it is more complex than just about any industry out there. Because supply chain touches, as you were just talking about, so many things. And so many aspects of business touch supply chain. And it has so many variables.

Greg White (15:55):

In fact, one of my guest, Jack Freeman from PeakSpan Capital, said he loves supply chain because it requires combinatorial analytics.

Karin Bursa (16:09):

Combinatorial analytics.

Greg White (16:09):

Yeah. Say that three times fast. And the essence of combinatorial analytics is that, there are a ton of inputs which create a ton of potential scenarios and a ton of potential outcomes as well. And supply chain, it requires the ability to manage all of those inputs, all of the potential solutions, and all of the potential outcomes to remove risk and costs from the supply chain. And I think that’s one of the things that makes it such a difficult thing. As you’ve have to have experienced – I know we’ve talked about this at least a little bit – it is difficult to market supply chain because there is so much to the business. And sometimes you can share too much. Anyway, I’m about to share too much.

Greg White (17:04):

So, I think the complexity of that is something that I want to communicate to founders because it’s not something you can just come out of school and do. It’s something you have to understand a bit about the industry to be able to tackle it. And I think we’ve seen a lot of companies that could have performed a lot better if they had understand the broader context of supply chain.

Karin Bursa (17:27):

Yeah. It’s so interesting because there are so many disciplines within supply chain. You know, I spent a lot of time talking about the big picture and making big strategic decisions, and connecting those to the tactical and operational things that happen each and every day. But it’s amazing to me how much of the supply chain is still managed on spreadsheets. It’s scary. It’s frightening. I mean, some of the biggest global brands are still managing some hundred million dollar aspects of their business in fragile spreadsheets and disconnected processes. And so, it’s so exciting to see the innovation in the industry and kind of see how you’re bringing or shedding a little light on it with TECHquila Sunrise. And I know that you don’t only look at startups. You’ve interviewed, you know, John Sicard with Kinaxis, which is a publicly held specialist in the supply chain space as well.

Karin Bursa (18:29):

So, publicly held businesses, but the majority has been around some of these innovations, these new startups, these new thinking, these Cloud native applications that are coming to the market. And framing that up can be really hard. You know, there’s a couple of things as a practitioner, I want the latest and greatest and most innovative technology. I want to know that the investment I’m making today is a foundation my company is going to be able to grow with over the next five or ten years. So, I want that supplier, that vendor, that new innovator to be financially viable. And funding is a part of that. Otherwise, we’re limited to some large, heavy, slow moving solutions that don’t offer that agility or don’t allow a mid-sized company or a fast growth company to get that advantage in the marketplace.

Greg White (19:32):

Yeah. I agree. I mean, that’s one of the things that even the most knowledgeable analysts in the industry, the folks at Gartner, Lora Cecere, and others, they have struggled to push against the status quo because so many of the big established players use old and outdated techniques and move so slowly towards these innovations. And, frankly, that’s the nature of innovation. You can’t be both an industry leader and a disruptor. I mean, there are probably people that would argue against that and they’re surely welcome to their opinion. They’re just wrong.

Karin Bursa (20:13):

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Straight from the horse’s mouth, they’re just wrong.

Greg White (20:17):

I’m glad you said mouth. But that innovation is what keeps this industry moving forward. And, boy howdy, did we see the upshot of things like manual processes, and spreadsheet analysis, and old and outdated technologies when COVID hit? If we never thought we would see those kinds of issues in this industry, we certainly did. That decreased agility and decreased the capability of companies to respond, to plan as well as they could, of course. But I think what was really hurt was the responsiveness and the resiliency. Lots of companies forecast.

Karin Bursa (21:06):

I have to agree. I have to agree. Because the minute you’ve finished the plan, the plan is outdated. So, you’ve got to continually sense and replan and continually revise what those plans are based on the latest available data. And it’s so interesting because, right now, the research shows that 60 percent of supply chains have been orchestrated or designed around one thing, and that’s cost efficiency. That is not agility. That is not resilience. And I think that number, that 60 percent I think that that is underestimated. I think that far more supply chains have that. That’s their one lever, right? It’s how can I do the same thing in a predictable manner and deliver a quality product?

Karin Bursa (22:00):

But, friends, the market has changed. We need agility. We need faster planning cycles. And I know that this is something that you’ve been talking about really for years. When you think of even simple things like demand planning and the fact that you’re not planning a product, you’re planning what?

Greg White (22:20):

You’re planning the consumer. You know, there are two fatal flaws that have existed for literally centuries in supply chain. And both of those are largely dependent on the fact that the data available when supply chains were invented – which I’m not going to go all the way back to Kate Weller days – was relatively rudimentary. And so, we forecast the item when, really, what we need to forecast is the consumer, whoever consumes that item. Because, you know, there are items sitting behind me here and they’ve done exactly what every single other item does. Nothing. They wait. They wait for a consumer to act on them. One of those back there, let’s see, there it is. That’s a box of cereal.

Karin Bursa (23:15):

Is it? We get the blurry background going out so I can’t –

Greg White (23:16):

Yeah. So, you both have to like cereal and like Patrick Mahomes to want that. So, you have to understand that, who likes cereal and who loves Patrick Mahome? This guy. So, that’s one of the fatal flaws. And the other is the one that is, I think, you and I have fought against our entire careers. And that is that supply chain is a cost saving exercise. It is not. It has been treated as such. It’s been driven as such. It’s been accepted by practitioners in supply chain because their bosses in the rest of the business have made it such. But the truth is, supply chain is a risk balancing exercise. Cost is just one of the risks of supply chain. Stock-outs, failing to provide the goods to the consumer – you’re a consumer – that’s one of the risks. Sustainability impact and human rights impact, also a risk. Brand equity is a risk.

Karin Bursa (24:12):

Brand equity has become a really, really big aspect of it.

Greg White (24:16):

Yeah. If you can’t deliver. I mean, you know, we heard it said. It was said by someone who runs a philanthropy, but no product, no program. So, people come to you for one thing, and that’s for you to deliver what they want. And you have to be able to do that. And if you focus solely on cost, you simply cannot do that. Because at some point, those get to cross purposes. So, you have to shift your mind to thinking about supply chain as a risk balancing exercise and cost, just one of those.

Karin Bursa (24:50):

Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean, I love that perspective. I frame it that way, but I usually talk about it in the context of risk and reward – I’m the eternal optimist – about new opportunity, new innovation. But it’s just that, I mean, your inventory investments, your supply chain capabilities become that fulcrum or that balancing point that’s going to align your ability to innovate, produce, and move goods to market at just the right time. Not too soon and not too late. And it’s a big challenge. It’s complex. And we are not trying to minimize the complexity that’s there or the innovation that comes through the people in your organizations who know how to get it done. What we’re trying to do is, really, advocate that allow technology to do the hard repetitive stuff, so that you can use your brain cells to do the creative and to think differently. And then, engage a little different and really harness that new opportunity, or maybe differentiation for your business over a competitor’s business.

Karin Bursa (26:02):

So, Greg, let’s kind of talk a little bit about tech companies, and either the companies or the types of companies that you advise or those that you highlight on TECHquila Sunrise. When you are working with companies that are hitting these inflection points, what types of things, what conversations, are you able to shed some light on for either a technology founder, or maybe bringing in the perspective of a broader industry, or how that technology might be able to be leveraged to solve some new opportunities?

Greg White (26:44):

Well, I mean, you know, we can start with a company you might not think of immediately as high growth, but that’s Kinaxis. I mean, that’s a $5 billion company, $5 billion in valuation. And yet the conversation I had with John Sicard was very straightforward. And it was very contrarian, frankly. And it’s funny because when he and I were gearing up to have this discussion, of course, he’s a CEO of a public company. So, you do the preliminary discussions with his handlers present. He said, “You and I may have a disagreement on point X.” And he shared his point of view. And I was like, “Wow. I’m actually amazed that you have that point of view as a public $5 billion company,” because it was very contrarian.

Greg White (27:30):

He said, “Technology is not the answer. Technology is the tool. Technology is not the solution to your problem. Technology, effectively, is the hammer.” You learn how to swing that hammer effectively to build your house or whatever. And it was a really refreshing discussion. So, innovation, as opposed to disruption, which we were talking about earlier, innovation can come from anywhere. And sometimes that anywhere is just a new perspective on how to tackle supply chain problems. So, that’s one of the places I love to go, is to find companies that are innovatively tackling supply chain problems.

Greg White (28:10):

Innovative industries, like Flourish with the cannabis industry, which I will argue is a model for the future broader supply chain and broader commerce. Because of the compliance requirements, and the sustainability initiatives, and the human rights issues that are inherent in that industry. And things like provenance that they have to track by law. All of those things can be used in the broader supply chain. And I see it as a great microcosm of broader commerce in the future. Maybe 20 years in the future. I don’t know. But definitely there is a lot that we can learn from this nascent industry.

Greg White (28:49):

And brilliant minds, even investors. So, Ben Gordon, who’s with Cambridge Capital, one of the original supply chain focused investors in the industry. His understanding of the industry and his understanding of how companies make money in the industry and create value, not just for their customers, but for their shareholders in the industry. That was really inspiring. I mean, there are a ton of people, you know, people like who know how to market this stuff, which we talked about earlier, is really hard to do. I mean, it’s great to meet some of the amazing minds in the industry, and amazing minds from outside the industry or have lent their expertise from outside the industry to supply chain. And, yet, the other thing that I really feel compelled to focus on is to take the naiveté that often exists in a founder and help them leverage that naiveté into a good business. So, one of the episodes that I did is Seven Things You Need to Do to Present Your Company in Three Minutes. And let me tell you –

Karin Bursa (29:58):

Right. Three minutes is hard.

Greg White (29:59):

It is really hard.

Karin Bursa (30:00):

I will tell you, as a CMO with decades of experience being concise, brief, and memorable in three minutes to get your whole value proposition across is tough.

Greg White (30:16):

It is. It’s virtually impossible, frankly. But the truth is, the exercise of distilling your company from your 20 minute pitch to your three-minute pitch, it really forces you as a founder, as a leader, of your company to identify that which is the most important, most impactful, and as you said, the most interesting that your company offers and only that. So, it forces you to –

Karin Bursa (30:43):

And to describe it in terms that somebody who’s not a technologist is going to understand, right? What is the business problem being solved and how are you going to make my life better, faster, stronger, whatever it might be. Now, Greg, this is really important, was this the basis or the inspiration for the Take Your Shot! format?

Greg White (31:12):

Yes.

Karin Bursa (31:15):

So, tell us what that is, first of all.

Greg White (31:16):

Maybe it was a little bit reversed. So, Take Your Shot! is a livestream that we do once a month, where we give supply chain technology companies the opportunity to pitch for three minutes to a venerable, venerable list of judges. People who are running –

Karin Bursa (31:35):

Prestigious. Prestigious list.

Greg White (31:38):

Long-term investors. People who are running their own tech companies that are worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. People who are running technology companies and running physical logistics companies in the industry. So, you’ve got three minutes to get your pitch across to these judges. Some of whom might actually invest in your company, if that’s what your ask is. Others that can at least give you a marketing perspective to say, “Hey, your message is not clear. It could be clearer here. Wow, it’s stellar in this way.” But the idea was to get these companies in front of a live audience, let them share their hopes and dreams in three minutes. And then, hear from these experts how they could be better, or what was really good about their pitch or discussion, or what was unclear, as we just talked about. And that really began the Seven Things You Must Do in Three Minutes video. As I’ve told several entrepreneurs since that, it takes 17 minutes to tell you the seven things that you need to say in three minutes to get your business point across.

Karin Bursa (32:46):

And to do it with passion, right? To do it in a natural, conversational way. It is an excellent, excellent skill to develop. And when you introduced that, I thought that was fantastic. For those of you that are listening today that haven’t had the chance, go back and listen to some of the past events, because it will really open your eyes to some of those challenges in the marketplace in articulating that value proposition. But it’s almost like a microcosm of Shark Tank applied to supply chain and innovative businesses that are up and coming in the marketplace.

Greg White (33:28):

It is. And we’ve even got our own version of Mr. Wonderful, though he’s much nicer than Kevin O’Leary or whatever that guy’s name is. But when you come on that show, it’s just like walking in to an investor and pitching your company. You’re going to get some tough questions. You’re going to get some, you know, thoughtful stares. You’re going to get some side eyes and things like that. If people don’t get it, they’re going to let you know. And it’s probably one of the most powerful things you can do to improve your pitch for your company is to hear, not just affirmation, but real hard core evaluation of it.

Greg White (34:08):

And it’s a lot of fun. I mean, we’re still learning with that. I mean, we had one show that went over an-hour-and-a-half because the judges get a little bit out of control in terms of sharing. But they really wanted to improve these companies businesses, and I think that’s the most important thing. Look, the important thing as a founder is to understand that everyone wants you to succeed. Everyone wants to invest in your business, but you’ve still got to earn it. And that’s the thing, I mean, I think the important thing that I’ve seen is – and what we hope to do in large part with Take Your Shot! is we want people to recognize and build great businesses, great pitches. And it’s easy to pitch a great business.

Karin Bursa (34:59):

Say that again. It’s easy –

Greg White (35:02):

It’s easy to pitch a great business. It really is. I mean, one of the questions you’ll never hear me or any of the investors that I work with, you’ll never hear me ask, “What’s your exit?” Because what we want to see is you build a great business. And if you build a great business, the exit will become apparent. It could be going public. It could be acquired by a private equity group. It could be acquired by a strategic, even a competitor or complimentary company. There are all kinds of ways to exit. But the truth is, it has to be a good business. A business has to be built to serve the consumer, not serve the investor. By serving your customer first, you will inherently serve all of your shareholders.

Karin Bursa (35:49):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good point. And I remind our audience that you’ve been through this process on a personal level. So, you’ve got the bruises and bumps and scars to prove it. You’ve been on the other side of the table, leading a team and driving innovation and new products in the industry. So, I think it’s really valuable that you’re able to take that kind of hard earned experience, and turn it around, and look at ways that you can help others, maybe, avoid some of the landmines or have fewer scars in the process. But when you go through this, Greg, what do you think is the most misunderstood aspect of a tech startup company? Like, where do they lose their way or kind of that big aha moment when you’re able to start working with someone new.

Greg White (36:49):

Most misunderstood is understanding your market. That is the most misunderstood thing. So many companies project their solution on the markets needs rather than assess the markets needs and build their solution. I’ve done it. And I’ve been fortunate and unfortunate. And by the way, all of the tips that I give are as much from screwing up as they are from doing things right. You hardly learn –

Karin Bursa (37:18):

Hey, some of my best lessons are from failures.

Greg White (37:21):

They are.

Karin Bursa (37:21):

When things go wrong or you’re forced to think differently, I think that’s driven most of the innovation I’ve seen.

Greg White (37:31):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. I mean, you learn a lot more when you fail than when you succeed. All you do is affirm yourself when you succeed. You don’t self-evaluate or become introspective as you do when you fail. But I think that’s the biggest thing. I’ve seen it over and over again. And, frankly, a friend of mine named Shane Matthews, he works at ATDC, the Atlanta Technology Development Center, the Georgia Tech incubator in Wichita – Atlanta.

Karin Bursa (38:03):

Georgia Tech in Wichita, that’s a merger I hadn’t heard about yet. But we do have insights [inaudible].

Greg White (38:11):

I guarantee you, Wichita does not come out on the top of that. But Shane was involved with Super Soaker. They understood their market really well. They understood it and they built products that met that market need and desire. And he is a market research hawk. And that’s what’s I learned from him was, you can’t research your market enough. And you almost have to think of it. You have to almost strip away all of your knowledge of an industry, or of a solution, or what you perceive to be the markets need and ask about it. You have to get into the market and ask about it. And it’s hard to do because it’s costly. It’s costly in terms of time. It’s costly in terms of money. Because there are right ways to do it. You have to ask the right questions. You have to ask them in the right way so that they’re not simply affirming your biases. You have to really approach it the right way. And that is clearly the most misunderstood aspect of startups.

Karin Bursa (39:17):

Yeah. I really have to agree with you there. From the perspective of even in my career, I have seen where the best technology does not win. The best, most elegantly designed, fastest, gives more precision, whatever it might be, that alone is not enough to win business. It’s the total package. What problems are you solving? What is the outcome? How does this help remove challenges or provide a unique value proposition in the market for your customer, whomever your customer might be? So, I think that that’s really valuable insight there.

Greg White (40:03):

When you say it like that, Karin, you realize it’s not just a startup problem. I mean, we had the problem at Blue Ridge. You’ve had it at Logility. Other companies have it now. You go in, you’re a hammer seeking a nail. And instead you need to go in understanding where this customer stands because a no is okay. A no that you don’t fit is okay. Because then you don’t waste time trying to put a square peg in a round hole. So, that is so powerful and I think it’s hard for companies to accept that. It’s hard for people to accept that, to say, “You mean we’re not for everybody?”

Karin Bursa (40:46):

And I don’t know about you, but if it’s going to be a no, I’d like to get to know fast. I mean, don’t drag me on or leave me on for months and months and months if it’s a no. Or as a buyer of technology solutions, if you have reservations about a provider you’re working with, just be open and candid with them. Because, one, they may be able to address it. And you may be able to take advantage of that innovation and look at ways to address whatever your concerns are. But number two, as a provider of technology in the marketplace, I want to know if I’m not a fit. And then, I want the open discussion as to why. Why is it not a fit? You know, what about it does not drive a compelling business proposition for you? Because that gives me, back to your point, good research, good data. Because, obviously, that supplier, that technology innovator thinks you’re a good prospect. Thinks that they have, you know, something that’s going to offer you a unique value proposition to your business. And if you’re not seeing it, that’s a conversation worth having.

Greg White (42:05):

Yeah. Well, and also, what is it that that customer is looking for? Because you might go in there – it’s hard not to. I’ve done it – thinking you’re being open to their needs, but you’re still projecting just enough that they’re telling you a little bit of what you want to know. And another thing on that front – and this is a struggle for startups and established companies as well – you know, if you’re talking to someone who will string you along like that, you’re not talking to the decision-maker anyway. No decision-maker wants to waste your time or theirs.

Karin Bursa (42:43):

Any time. Yeah. True.

Greg White (42:44):

So, that’s another thing that companies need to learn, is, learn when you are really talking to the decision-maker. And it’s tough to do. And I mean, like I said, I’ve been there. I’ve seen people. Sometimes you’ve got the guts to ask and sometimes you don’t.

Karin Bursa (43:03):

Yeah. So, I’m going to ask you a tough question. As you look at TECHquila Sunrise, what is your favorite episode? This is like picking a favorite child. What is your favorite episode? So, if we’ve got a new listener that hasn’t listened to TECHquila Sunrise yet, where should they start?

Greg White (43:26):

So, I’ve done about 50 episodes. They’re all flashing through my mind right now. Can I pick three? I’ll be brief.

Karin Bursa (43:41):

Okay. Sure.

Greg White (43:42):

John Sicard. Definitely, John Sicard. Though, it’s two episodes, if you can only listen to one, listen to the first one. Shannon Vaillancourt, who’s the CEO of Ratelinx. You know, I talked about it a little bit off camera. It only took him 21 years to be an overnight success in the transportation management.

Karin Bursa (44:03):

That’s how it usually happens.

Greg White (44:04):

Right. That’s another thing that more people need to understand. And then, I think the other one, because it’s helpful and because I get such great response to it, is the Seven Things to Do in Three Minutes. Because I didn’t really think anyone would watch that. And I’m not sure that many people have watched it. I just felt compelled to offer that to the marketplace. And it’s gratifying when people are struggling to get their pitch down, and I or somebody points them towards that, and they’re like, “Oh, my gosh. That was just epiphanal.” And I have to tell you, that was more based on mine and other’s failings in pitching than it really was successes so much. It’s a lot about what to do and a lot about what not to do. But those are the ones that really stand out for me.

Greg White (44:58):

You have to listen to John Sicard. It’s hard to believe that a public company CEO can be so bold and so contrarian. And it was a really risky move, but a strong move on his part. And, also, to recognize that just like Shannon Vaillancourt, his point of view that resonates through their entire organization. So, you see the leadership there as well, not only strong opinion, but projecting that point of view, that distinct point of view through their organization and using it to do better business for their clients. It’s super powerful.

Karin Bursa (45:41):

Well, Greg, this has been a blast for me. As you look forward – and I know there’s a number of exciting things on the horizon – is there something coming with TECHquila Sunrise, or something you’re seeing in the industry that you want us to keep our eyes open for? I know there are things you can’t tell us.

Greg White (46:05):

Yeah. Yeah. All that will be revealed soon enough. But I think the thing to keep our eye on is constant improvement. I use this term called the blessing of naiveté. And that is, you want to constantly evaluate why we do things the way we do. And it is, as you said, with so many large companies, it is stunning, stunning to me that companies, and particularly some of these big manufacturers, that they’re using techniques that I, as a retail practitioner of supply chain in the 1990 – just over two decades ago – we stopped doing those decades ago. And to see that some of those ancient practices are still in play is concerning. So, you have to always ask the question, why do we do it this way? And if the answer is because we’ve always done it that way, think again.

Karin Bursa (47:05):

Think again. Yeah. Dig a little deeper. And I think, also, it’s important, especially if you are a large manufacturer or a business that has been established for decades, you do typically have some tribal knowledge and the way things have been done, you know, for years and years that you inherited. But one number that just keeps coming back to me over and over again is the fact that baby boomers are leaving the marketplace. And this number is from before COVID. Before COVID, so 18 months ago, baby boomers were leaving the marketplace at something like 10,000 a day. A day, 10,000 a day. And that number has got to be hired today as a result of COVID and people just looking at life decisions and what they want to do next. But my point there is more about the fact that as they exit the marketplace, they’re taking a lot of that tribal knowledge with them. So, ask the questions now. You know, ask the questions, understand why it got initiated that way, but ask it in a way also that is about efficiently completing or moving product to market based on real market demand. So that you can maybe make some new process changes, some new innovation, and stop doing maybe some time consuming behaviors that are adding zero value to your business.

Greg White (48:36):

Yeah. That is a wealth of information leaving, and we need to capture that. I mean, if you think about new age technologies like AI, AI is not an overlord. AI is a child. And that child needs to be taught in order to do what it’s designed to do. And it needs a ton of data to do it. And if we can capture that knowledge from these baby boomers, who so many of whom were doing business before you even documented it, much less systematized or automated it. They just know. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve asked people, “How do you know?” And they say, “I just know.” And it’s because they have incorporated that knowledge over decades and decades and it’s just second nature for them. So, we’ve got to extract that knowledge. Then, we can apply it to the new incoming generations in the workforce and also to these AI techniques, where a lot of that knowledge can be employed. But you’re right, we are at great risk of losing a lot of incredible knowledge. It’s okay boomer is what we ought to be saying. It’s okay. Tell us. Truthfully, I mean we need to respect the knowledge that is there.

Karin Bursa (49:59):

Absolutely. Absolutely. As a technology provider, one of the aspects that was interesting for me to see – and this started probably three or four years ago as baby boomers were exiting – a lot of baby boomers grew up with the technology that’s helping to manage the supply chains of global businesses today. So, let’s call it a 20 or 30 year career trajectory. And they grew up having to look under the covers, and check the technology, and do a bake off, and do these different things because the technology was brand new, enterprise systems were brand new early in their careers as well. And so, that was a different way of engaging.

Karin Bursa (50:46):

And I think that today, as we have digital natives in the marketplace, is they are accustomed to interacting with software, and looking for answers quickly, and using things like natural language interfaces as a part of the way they engage with technology. These innovations are really cool and have the opportunity to continue to evolve and change the way business happens. But we need to understand the mechanics, and things like lead time, and what does visibility mean, and these words [inaudible].

Greg White (51:21):

Everyone wants to answer to that one.

Karin Bursa (51:23):

Right. That really presents an exciting opportunity. And so, I love that your advising a number of companies in different aspects of supply chain, because I think that that’s such a great place to be in supply chain itself, all aspects of supply chain. There’s just so much opportunity. And it’s an exciting time to really make a difference in your companies, make a difference in the world, whether it’s in reducing waste in the world, or you brought up labor earlier as a part of a constraint that’s being managed, the type of labor, how much labor is put into products as well is just an interesting aspect of looking at building your brand as an individual and a contributor, but also building the brand of your company and doing that in a sustainable and responsible fashion.

Greg White (52:23):

Supply chain has crossed that threshold from brute force to nuance and science. I mean, the baby boomers that you talked about, they were the John Henry’s of supply chain or of technology. They might be able to drive the spikes faster. But they were dead tired at the end. And they did have to check the technology and they did have to see it through its evolution. Now, that so much of that technology has evolved so far that you can trust that it’s doing the right thing. And, in fact, technology will not displace jobs in the future in supply chain.

Karin Bursa (53:02):

It’s just changing them. It’s making them more interesting, quite honestly.

Greg White (53:06):

And it’s taking the jobs that no one else will. I mean, the physical and brute force jobs in supply chain will be taken by robots. And this isn’t just in supply chain. There aren’t enough drivers in transportation. There aren’t enough factory workers. There aren’t enough people in logistics facilities to move the goods. I was working with a company who’s in the welding business that they expect 300,000 welding jobs to go unfulfilled by 2023. And that number is increasing rapidly. It’s 75,000 now that are unfulfilled. So, people aren’t going to take these brute force jobs. The jobs, that I read in an article and have kind of captured this phrase, the dark, the dirty, and the dangerous jobs. They will go to robotics. And then, people, as you alluded to earlier, they’ll be able to do those things that humans are great at and computers are terrible at, and that is make instantaneous life saving or life changing decisions with insufficient data. Which technology absolutely cannot do including artificial intelligence, because it has to learn for that specific circumstance in order to use it. Whereas, people can interpolate based on their other learnings that, “Hey, that thing I learned when I was seven years old, that’s valuable here in supply chain.” So, those kinds of things will always be the realm of the human. And that’s our only hope against the robot. But that’s where humans will evolve to in their role in supply chain.

Karin Bursa (54:47):

Yeah. Well, Greg, this has been a blast. Thanks for sharing some of your insights with us today.

Greg White (54:50):

Yeah. Likewise.

Karin Bursa (54:50):

But I want to remind folks to connect, to build your network and to connect certainly here in the Supply Chain Now community. But look in your backyard. Greg was right in my backyard, in my market, in my industry. We know tons of the same people. But we never had the chance to connect personally and get to know each other. And it has been such a privilege for me to get to know Greg and to work with the team at Supply Chain Now. And just really sharing ideas, looking for inspiration and innovation, and raising my supply chain IQ. So, I hope today’s episode has done that for our audience as well.

Greg White (55:33):

Likewise for me. Thank you. It was great to know you. I was actually only across the street at that really good Thai restaurant by your corporate office and we never met.

Karin Bursa (55:43):

I know. It’s crazy. It’s really crazy.

Greg White (55:47):

Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. And, of course, everything you’ve done in the industry is fantastic and continue to do as you’re helping companies. I mean, you’re out there.

Karin Bursa (55:59):

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Greg White (56:01):

You’re helping companies to improve.

Karin Bursa (56:03):

Supply chain is a great place to be. We, definitely, have exciting things ahead in a number of different areas. And an ability to take technology and solve real business problems and make a tangible impact on business performance and job satisfaction. So, lots of good things ahead, I think. So, for our audience, on the topic of raising your supply chain IQ, I’m going to send you to supplychainnow.com. I want you to check out at least those three episodes that Greg mentioned. Greg, what were they again?

Greg White (56:39):

John Sicard. In fact, the title of it is A Violent Agreement, because we were expecting an argument.

Karin Bursa (56:49):

Yes, you did.

Greg White (56:49):

We were expecting an argument. And then, Shannon Vaillancourt, with RateLinx. And then, Seven Things You Must Do to Pitch Your Company in Three Minutes.

Karin Bursa (57:00):

And you know what? In that pitch your company in three minutes, I’m going to challenge everybody to listen to that. Because if you have an idea that you want to pitch within your company, a project you want to take on an opportunity for innovation, those seven things are going to help you with that project, just like they would help a founder or CEO of a tech company to pitch their story as well. It’s that good. It’s fire power. So, take a listen to that. And while you’re there at supplychainnow.com, please check out TEKTOK, that’s T-E-K-T-O-K, and subscribe. Our goal is to help you eliminate the noise and focus on the inspiration and information you need to replace risky inventory with valuable insights. And we’ll see you next time on TEKTOK, Powered by Supply Chain Now.