Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Ludden and Kevin L. Jackson with you here on Supply Chain. Now welcome to today’s live stream. Hey, Kevin L. Jackson. How you doing?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:24):

I am so happy to be back. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I mean, geez, I miss you guys.

Scott Luton (00:32):

We miss you too. You’ve been around the world and then some as a lot of our recurring and regular smart audience members know Kevin’s been missing an action for a couple months. And Kevin L. Jackson, I’m practicing saying your full name called, got a special guest joining us in a minute that’s also named Kevin. So stick around

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50):

The power. You got the Kevin’s here.

Scott Luton (00:54):

Team Kevin. Team Kevin. Sure. Alright, so folks, it’s the buzz. Every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business news that matters is what we like to call it.

(01:06):

And the buzz is powered by our friends at EasyPost who helps make shipping easy, flexible and scalable. You can learn how you can simplify your shipping operations and delight your customers@easypost.com. Okay, great show teed up here. Today we’re going to get a quick update on the big proposed rail merger. Hey, it’s Truck Driver Appreciation Week. We’re going to be celebrating our truckers and share some of their views. We’re going to be talking about the extended freight market slump and its impact all that much, much more in about 10 minutes or so. As I had mentioned, we’re going to be welcoming a special guest on the buzz here today, Kevin Lawton with the New Warehouse. We’re going to get Kevin’s insights on the cool things, very cool things going on in the warehouse space. Kevin L. Jackson. It should be a terrific edition of the buzz, huh?

Kevin L. Jackson (01:50):

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, you always learn things on the buzz, especially when you join live.

Scott Luton (01:56):

That is right. That is right. There’s no other way to be. This is one of our favorite shows each and every week. And folks, two things we’re going to ask for before we get going here today. Number one, hey, just like Trisha’s dropping in. Happy buzz day. Say hello. Let us know where you’re watching from. Thanks for joining us here on the Buzz Powered by Easy Posts here today, just like Trisha did. Hey, give us your take in the comments, whether you’re tuned in via LinkedIn, X, YouTube, Facebook, Twitch, no matter, let us know what you think. And secondly, if you enjoy the show today, we’d love for you to share it with a friend and or your network. They’ll be smarter by you doing that because you get to hear from team Kevin and both team Kevin. The Kevin Quotient will make you a smarter practitioner, I can assure you. Okay, Kevin L. Jackson. I got three things, three count them before we bring on our esteem. Guest here on the buzz powered by Easy post. You ready?

Kevin L. Jackson (02:44):

Oh no. That high level math kind of gets me. You got the 1, 2, 3.

Scott Luton (02:51):

No, I’ve seen you doing that. You’re doing quantum math and I’m barely working my abacus over here. Alright, and hey, really quick. Hey, Jerry Levy, fellow Atlantan, I can’t remember what part of Atlanta you are, but always grateful to have you stop by. Let us know what you think about these stories we’re about to hit. Okay, so Kevin, three things. Let’s see. I promised three things. Number one, I got a snapshot of Kevin L. Jackson in his backyard. We’re, we’re going to check out our latest edition of what that said, which published over the weekend we lit off with some big news, the largest rail industry, labor union. Well, it’s come out in opposition to the big proposed merger between Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern. So stick with me here, Kevin, as I walk us through this story. One more. So the Union, which is named Smart Transportation Division, says they have big concerns with the safety practices and workforce environment at Union Pacific in particular. Now we’re going to see just how big of an obstacle this will be when it comes to the US federal government’s potential approval of the merger, which may take as long as another year and a half or so. Now, we also touched on the EV market. Kevin, do you have a electric vehicle yet or a hybrid?

Kevin L. Jackson (03:54):

No, I’ve driven them. A lot of my friends, they’re not too cool on the electric vehicle, so I just keep watching.

Scott Luton (04:03):

Okay, good. Well, you’re foreshadowing a little bit here. And by the way folks, Trish is dropping the link to what that said right there in the comments. We also touched on the EV market in the newsletter, and so it seems like it’s going gangbusters everywhere else across the globe except the us Kevin get this number. Bloomberg, NEF is reporting that the EV hybrid sales alone will be up 25% globally in 2025. Over last year’s numbers 25%. But the US recent data, second quarter 2025, EV sales showed a 6.3% decline in year over year numbers.

Kevin L. Jackson (04:37):

One of the issues there, I mean China is really driving the market with respect to electric vehicles and they have I guess done a lot of subsidies in order to reduce the price in order to drive up and back in China, a lot of EV companies are going out of business, they can’t make any money. So it’s like you are getting more sales, but the companies aren’t making any money. I don’t know.

Scott Luton (05:05):

You raise great questions and great things to consider. And speaking of companies not making money, Rivian. And so Rivian just recently had, I think two profitable quarters over the last two years I believe, but they’ve been really looking, trying to figure out how to make a profit on each vehicle they make, right?

(05:22):

So get this Kevin. A lot of things have changed since Rivian the EV manufacturer. Now it’s a really big Georgia factory. They announced it back in 2022. Initially it was supposed to be operational by the end of 2024. So a little bit of a delay. A few things have changed the last couple of years, but Rivian has announced that they’re resuming the build out of this massive Georgia factory this week. They had the governor out this week cutting tape again. That’s good, Kevin. 7,500 jobs have been promised. This will be a massive win if it comes to fruition for the state of Georgia as well as the whole region, much like the Kia plant that went in some 20 years ago. Okay. Also, Pascal, you make a great point, not a surprise going back to those EV sales numbers with the change in tax credits and the disruption and crucial components that are used in ev. That’s right, Pascal, great call out. Come on back. Love having you here. Alright, so Kevin, one last point. So again, we were talking about our newsletter with that said, which is an almost weekly newsletter, A little bit of flexibility there for us, but it’s jam packed with these stories. More news resources, live events, you name it. Kevin, did you get a chance beyond the EV stuff? Did you get a chance to take a read? What’d you see

Kevin L. Jackson (06:34):

Read? Well, actually I did. And the thing that sort of jumped out at me, I mean you had it in the small print about the stockpiling of stuff around the country. It kind of foreshadows the fact that the whole world is trying to get on the warfront. And before you go to war, the very first thing you do is you stockpile all your critical material that you need. This is what happened before World War I. This is what happened before World War ii. I hope this is not an indicator

Scott Luton (07:06):

Me. Well, that makes two of us. And you’re right, according to various data, I think the one we pointed out in the newsletter came from the Wall Street Journal and it was powered by GEP data. We’re seeing some of the strongest stockpiling of the inventory in, I want to say 30 months maybe was a timeframe, Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (07:20):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, China’s already said that they’re going to, their military has been tasked to be ready to take over Taiwan by 2027. That’s not a long, and the US military and allies are really ramping up to expect that what they say, believing when they tell you what they’re going to do.

Scott Luton (07:45):

You know what, yes, we’re hoping cooler heads prevail and there’s a diplomatic solution there. But Kevin, you’re right. We’re going to see what plays out. There’s been lots and lots of not just lip service and threats, but of course a massive military buildup. We’ll touch on that here in just a second. But first, Kevin, we want to encourage people to check out. With that said, right, Trisha, drop the link right there. Let us know what you think. We love feedback. It’s a blessing. So y’all keep it coming. Secondly, Kevin, I want to share a big event, right? Big event, our friends at

Kevin L. Jackson (08:13):

NF manifest.

Scott Luton (08:13):

They’re coming back. I tell you, manifest 2026. We had a terrific time at this event earlier this year, the 2025 version, and we’re going to be back with all the movers in shakers and industry in February in Vegas. So folks get this manifest. Vegas brings together the most comprehensive ecosystem of innovation and transformation in supply chain and logistics, delivering unmatched opportunities to learn, connect, and innovate. Join us February 9th through the 11th 2026 in Las Vegas to experience unparalleled, what a word, unparalleled access to the technologies, trends and connections shaping the way the world moves. Manifest 2026, it’s going to be here for it. Register now via the special link that Tricia, I bet is sharing. We’re dropping right there in the chat and you’re going to save a couple hundred bucks. So come on and join us.

Kevin L. Jackson (09:00):

Yeah, I’ve been really impressed with DHL ever since I worked with them for chose last year, how they are looking at and leveraging technology to build better relationships with their customers and to provide much better support so they understand the importance of communications and logistics.

Scott Luton (09:20):

Yes, Kevin, that’s high praise because you’re a very demanding, demanding customer. Let’s see here. We’re about to bring on Kevin, before I prompt and get you to tell us where you’ve been, we’re going to bring Kevin Lawton on in just a second. But Scotty and the crew always put on a great show. Hey, we appreciate that The Lou Fly and I think they love their, I love

Kevin L. Jackson (09:40):

Mr. Jackson.

Scott Luton (09:41):

Okay.

Kevin L. Jackson (09:41):

Okay. I got a new friend.

Scott Luton (09:43):

Yeah, we do have a new friend there. We’re going to invite them back every week. Okay. Before we ask and find out where Kevin l Jackson’s been, I want to go ahead and bring in an incredible guest here today. We’re all excited about having for probably, I think Kevin’s joined us two or three times now on supply chain now first time on the bus. So Kevin Lawton has been doing big things in the warehousing and overall supply chain space for years. He’s an educator, a national keynote speaker, an entrepreneur, and a whole bunch more. Kevin founded the New Warehouse podcast, which is fast approaching 650 episodes. He also serves as adjunct professor at Ryder University, home of the Bronx. And I love Kevin’s workout in industry, and you’re going to enjoy his perspective here today. Please join me in welcoming Kevin Lawton with the new warehouse. Hey. Hey Kevin, how are you doing? Hey guys, how are you? Wonderful, wonderful. Alright, so Kevin Lawton and Kevin L. Jackson, we’re going to try to keep it really straight here today.

Kevin Lawton (10:34):

Team Kevin. Team Kevin Strong today. Yes,

Scott Luton (10:42):

We need to cut some warehousing, some wrestling promos or something. Alright, let’s do this. I want to do the fun and warmup question. We’re going to talk food a minute, then we’re going to solve the mystery of where Kevin L. Jackson has been for the last few months, and then we’ve got a bunch of stories to get to. So let’s do this. Fun and warmup question, folks. It’s butterscotch cinnamon pie day. Yuck. It is Greenpeace Day because today the organization was founded back in 1971, so that’s cool. And it is National Double Cheeseburger Day, which evidently is September 15th every single year. So I’m going to ask y’all both this starting with you, Kevin Lawton, where do you get the absolute best burger around and do you happen to have a secret ingredient that you drop on top?

Kevin Lawton (11:22):

Oh, that’s a good question. First I’ll say it’s interesting double cheeseburger day. So that lends me to believe that there’s also a single cheeseburger day as well. So there’s two excuses in the year to go get cheeseburger. But no, I think that I’m a fan of Smash Burger, I got to say for one, definitely like Smash Burger, but I also hear in New Jersey, there’s some times where I just get a craving for a good burger just made at a diner. I like that definitely. There’s a little bit of a different taste I find there, so I like that. But interesting toppings. No, I don’t really put anything interesting on there. I like pickles. I’m a pretty simple guy. Pickles, ketchup, that’s it. That’s about it. Sometimes I might do maybe some fried onions or something like that to pick it up a little bit. Yeah,

Scott Luton (12:04):

I like it. I like how you think. Kevin Lawton, Kendrick spirit there. Kevin L. Jackson. How about you? Where do you get the best burger? And do you have a secret ingredient drop on them?

Kevin L. Jackson (12:11):

Well, I really like the five guys burgers.

Scott Luton (12:14):

Okay.

Kevin L. Jackson (12:16):

And you put that, I guess here, maybe it’s a regional thing, but you put the old bay seasoning on it. Ba, that’s man, that’s right there. And then some bread and butter pickles, bread and butter pickles. Oh, bread and butter. Butter. Not di, I don’t really go for di raws is okay, but it’s those bread and butter pickles that really mock

Scott Luton (12:40):

Chef’s kiss.

Kevin L. Jackson (12:41):

Yesterday’s yours.

Scott Luton (12:43):

Oh, I love it. Well, Trisha’s also a big fan of five guys, so You’all have that in common and I think if you make a great burger, but I got to tell you Kevin and Kevin, it’s not exactly a burger, but it’s probably what I get most regularly and that’s a good old patty melt on wheat at Waffle House and load that thing with extra pickles. And if you say extra pickles of Waffle House, you got to be careful. They’ll bring you the whole jar and Tabasco, of

Kevin L. Jackson (13:08):

Course, what kind of pickles?

Scott Luton (13:10):

Those famous Waffle House thin sliced restaurant pickles. So nothing too special. Rachel is also on Team Bread butter. Hey Jerry, makes a good point. You guys are suggesting the $15 burgers, but what’s the best fast food burger for us working class people? Hey Jerry, we’re all in that bucket. Let’s think about that and let’s answer that in just a second. But Jerry says Steak and shake double cheese for working class folks. I’m with you, Jerry. I love that. And if you noticed, mine was a Waffle House plate. You can get in and out of there for less than 15. Okay, let’s solve this really quick before we get to some of the news of the day. I bet me and Kevin Lawton both have acquiring minds. Kevin O. Jackson, you usually join us what, a third Monday of each

Kevin L. Jackson (13:59):

Month? The third Monday of every month, yeah.

Scott Luton (14:01):

So you’ve missed a few, but you’ve been working on some really cool projects. Give us a highlight or two from what you can share.

Kevin L. Jackson (14:07):

Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I want to keep my audience around. So as a lot of, I do a lot of work in space and we launched a system called Philomena on with the road space that’s in orbit right now and doing some post quantum resistant encryption for cube sets. And actually we’re going to be doing some more launches in 26 to Leo and 27 to Geo. So it’s been very, very successful project. But here on my terrestrial work, so to speak, we’ve been doing some cowork communications for unbound vehicles. So it’s October, no, no, September in August. I was up in Michigan up on Lake Huron, a beautiful Lake Huron in I guess the lower Peninsula Alpina where we were putting our communication solution on us vs little unmanned boats with the Navy Navy. We actually designed it to go on UAVs as well.

(15:14):

Then that was in July. Then in August I went north to Alaska and we were up in the Yukon training area up by Fairbanks out in the boonies on top of mountains and down in valleys and doing a lot of covert communication testing about advanced technologies called Smart Beam. So I was working hard. I enjoyed it though. It was fun. And

Scott Luton (15:41):

So Kevin Lawton, you and I probably talk, I know you’re in and out of a bunch of warehouse facilities and I’m sure you see lots and lots of autonomous vehicles, but autonomous boats that have national security implications. That’s pretty cool stuff. Kevin Lawton, huh?

Kevin Lawton (15:54):

Yeah, that’s pretty cool. That’s very, very interesting and I think it’d be interesting to see how that kind of comes out. I mean, it sounds like maybe it’s a little secretive, I’m not sure, but I think there’s a lot of potential there for industry as well too, potentially.

Kevin L. Jackson (16:08):

Yeah, yeah,

Kevin Lawton (16:09):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (16:10):

Alright, so we’re going to get a whole full scoop next time Kevin L. Jackson joins us, but we got a lot of news to get into here today. Kevin Lawton and Kevin L. Jackson, team Jackson. Let’s see here. I want to start with this. This is something really important folks, because we’re in the midst of Truck Driver Appreciation Week, which runs September 14th through the 20th this year, very special week. We celebrate each and every year. I think we’re close to 40 years when this has been a formal week set aside. Big thanks to our friends over at the American Trucking Associations for the work they do on behalf of our industry. So get this, there’s lots of great data here. 3.6 million truck drivers, 72.7, almost 73% in terms of the percentage of the nation’s freight delivered by trucks. I think that’s by weight critical critical jobs these professionals do.

(16:55):

So check this out from Dana Guthrie Over at the Trucker comes this interesting perspective. It looks like conversion interactive agency, CIA, interesting and PDA surveyed over 1300 truck drivers a few months back. And here are some interesting findings. It’s a competitive market out there as almost 47% of drivers are currently seeking new job opportunities now of those seeking new jobs. So of that 47%, Kevin and Kevin check out these stats here. 70% are looking for more time at home. Understandable. Almost 65% are looking for more predictable pay. As we all know, a lot of their weekly pay is based on

Kevin L. Jackson (17:33):

How many miles

Scott Luton (17:35):

They hook and pick. It’s where they go. That’s right. Over 42% are looking for access to better equipment and over 30%, this is my least favorite factoid of all over 30% of drivers are looking for new opportunities because they report feeling disrespected at their current. So Kevin, weigh in. What are your thoughts there as it relates to the survey or the driver ecosystem? You name it, one, two.

Kevin Lawton (18:00):

Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean it’s really, really interesting I, and I think it’s telling of what people are just looking for in jobs in general, and I think there’s been a lot of change in that and what people are looking for. Like you mentioned, the flexibility and better predictive pay and things like that. I think people are looking for a little bit more of that and it’s becoming more and more important and especially as we see more newer kind of jobs rise up from different technology type of platforms that allow people to have that flexibility and maybe a little more predictive pay as well. But yeah, I mean I think it’s really, really interesting. And the disrespect thing I think really stands out and coming from the warehouse side as I do, I mean there is kind of these moments where the truckers and the shippers butt heads. So I can see that being definitely a thing that is very reasonable and gets to a certain point for people where it’s just kind like I don’t want to deal with this anymore and this difficulty. Yeah.

Scott Luton (19:00):

Kevin, I’m with you. That respect thing. Raise your hand if you just accept being disrespected as part of your daily work. That’s an awful, awful mindset, awful thing to hear about. That’s exhausting. It’s Kevin O. Jackson. Your thoughts on what we’re seeing in the truck driver space?

Kevin L. Jackson (19:16):

Well, actually I’d be interested to understand what percentage of those truckers are looking for new opportunities outside of being a trucker with the use of autonomous vehicles, with the disrespect, obviously, are they looking for greener pastures on the other side? That would be interesting and it would really hurt our economy if the truckers decide to say goodbye,

Scott Luton (19:42):

Right? So true. I mean imagine all of the freight that would stop moving, all the added lead time we would need. It’d be devastating. And we’re going to touch on the freight economy in just a second. Jerry, you’re on fire today. You’re asking a question that I do not know, but I do know folks a little distinction because Jerry’s asking what is the typical salary for local p and d drivers who get to go home every night, p and d, meaning pickup and delivery. A lot of times these drivers are going to say Metro Atlanta or a certain portion of metro Atlanta make a bunch of stops and then they make it home each and every night. As Jerry’s pointing out, I interviewed a few folks from Southeastern Freight lines a few years ago that two p and d drivers, which had some really cool stories. So folks, I’m going to throw that over to Trisha and Amanda, if y’all can find any salary data for p and d drivers, that’d be terrific. Kevin, I’m going to give you the last, when you get out to all the warehouses you visit, I love watching your visits out in the markets, whether it’s events or facilities or whatever. You ever get a chance to interact with some professional truck drivers,

Kevin Lawton (20:38):

Those visits? No, but being former warehouse manager, plant manager, myself certainly have had those interactions and I think there’s a lot of different perspectives on the way people view that relationship. Some people, they want to be a shipper of choice and that means that you’re accommodating to those truck drivers as well. And some people, they look at the truck driver as just like the bane of their existence almost in a sense. Rights, horrible. There’s definitely a friction there. And I think that some of that comes from both sides. Some truckers are not as great, just like some shippers are not as great, so they tend to maybe shut out these truckers a little bit. Can I use bathroom? No, no, no. Bathrooms aren’t for truckers or anybody outside of the organization and some of that is security safety, but the companies that I’ve seen that have really set up spaces for the truckers and given them some resources as they’re waiting for loads, they see benefits from that. It may not be financially tangible in a sense, but having that better relationship allows that trucker to be a little more flexible with you or that carrier. Maybe they’re going to come after hours one time because you built that relationship with them and being a little better. But yeah, too often than not, I do see where people are like, ah, truckers like need ’em, but don’t necessarily want ’em in sense,

Scott Luton (22:02):

Man, excellent perspective. And we got to do better. We’ve got to do better. And at least this once a year, week set aside, hopefully it cause attention to the professional and truck driver experience and journey. So let’s act on

Kevin L. Jackson (22:14):

Professional. That’s what you united emphasize. They are professionals.

Scott Luton (22:17):

Yes, well said. Well, alright, a couple quick things before we shift over to the freight economy. Number one, folks check out this survey. It’s from a couple months back, you’ll enjoy and it’ll enlighten you a bit on the professional truck driver journey, some of the motivations that they have. So check that out. Secondly, Jerry, going back to your question about p and d driver compensation, Amanda found really quick some data from ZipRecruiter that shows $25 to $30 an hour, which equates to about 60 to 70 K annually. That sounds low to me, but she also mentions a ton of factors that influence those rates. One final thing, Kevin and Kevin, I tell you I love my interactions with truck drivers and I’ve had a bunch of them. I was just at King Plow in West Atlanta. Well I guess this is last year, so not just this was last year, but King Ply was being used for a TV shot. And of course you got Hollywood supply chain, you got a bunch of trucks out there that’s delivering props, all this stuff. And there was a truck driver named LA and he had a big rig and he had to finagle that thing in Atlanta, traffic perfectly land at the dock door. And Kevin and Kevin, it would’ve took me 27 turns moving forward and back, adjust, fooled it around with his eyes shut and it was perfectly matched to that dock. It’s amazing. Professional truck

Kevin Lawton (23:29):

Cars. Yeah, yeah’s right?

Scott Luton (23:31):

100% a way. It’s great to see you back with us via LinkedIn. Let us know what you’re up to. Give us your take on the topics we’re talking about. Let’s shift over Kevin and Kevin to talking about some tougher news. Well even tougher news maybe on the freight economy. The freight economy. So Paul Berger and the Wall Street Journal recently published this article on the three year slump that the free market has been in. So they report on the closure of TGS Transportation, which was a California based company with a fleet of 150 trucks and a 40 year track record. Unfortunately, TGS joined one of many other companies that closed up shop earlier this summer. Peter Schneider, the son of the founder at TGS said we were running more efficiently than we’d ever run as a company by far, and we still couldn’t make it. Three years of low freight pricing amid rising costs.

(24:16):

Have many industry analysts concerned about how many other companies could follow TGS and CIS operations. Many operators were hoping that rates would improve here in 2025, but that hasn’t happened as DAT Freight analytics reporting shows that rates have remained largely steady at those pre pandemic levels before that bonanza or freight bonanza. If y’all recall, during the pandemic, some analysts point to that there’s still way too many trucks on the road chasing after demand that it hasn’t really seen that much of a pop. So Kevin Longton, there’s a lot of factors, y’all folks go check out the article, but Kevin, your thoughts in terms of what we’re seeing in the overall freight economy right now?

Kevin Lawton (24:50):

Yeah, I think it’s interesting. The last point that you touched on there where there was this boom in the market and now there’s some analysis saying there’s just too many trucks on the road, right? There’s too much capacity to meet the demand and it’s very kind of running parallel to what I see even from the warehouse perspective of real estate and spaces, right? There was a lot of boom too as well during the pandemic. I mean just supply chain overall as a whole. And now there’s a lot of empty space that people bought based on that boom or developed based on that boom and now it’s not there. So I think finding the balance is hard. Maybe tying it back to the previous story, if truckers are leaving, does that take away some of that capacity potentially? And does that level out even out the market a little bit? And how does that tie in together? I think it’d be very interesting to see over the next couple of years here.

Kevin L. Jackson (25:45):

Well said Kevin Lawton, Kevin L. Jackson, your thoughts? Well, unfortunately I’m going to be a Debbie Downer here because when you look at the financial environment, the unemployment seems to be going up with all the reductions or modifications of the reports that the slow down or recession is on the horizon and the world is turning its back on globalization. So none of that bodes well for the trucking industry here in the United States. Salaries are stagnant, they’re not going up. I think there are going to be more truck transportation companies that are going to have to find other things to do. The market is not going to be going up just too many trucks on the road and you add the automation to that automation of both the warehouses and of vehicles. Hey, it’s not Debbie down at all.

Scott Luton (26:46):

We’re keeping it real, right? We’re talking about the concerns. Every business leader’s probably trying to read the tea leaves and manage and plan through folks. Y’all check out this, read a couple of points I want to call out beyond what Kevin and Kevin have already shared. So California is a unique state to do business in and so that we should call that out. But secondly, Kevin, to your point, I don’t know the latest tariff monies that were raised, but when I read that, I think it was over 30 Bain or something, something ridiculous when I read that, it was like, great, but at what cost is the question that came to my mind and at what cost Kevin L. Jackson kind of goes, what you’re sharing exactly employment.

Kevin L. Jackson (27:21):

US companies are paying that 30 billion,

Scott Luton (27:24):

Right? That’s right. Well true. And many consumers too. But employment, housing, market, some other troubling economic data that we’re seeing. It all leads me to this week. We make it an interest rate cut. Some folks are expecting three interest rate cuts by the end of the year. We shall see, we shall see, but troubling storms. Alright, so Kevin Lawton give you the final word on. Give us some good news, Kevin Lawton before we shift over into a really cool story on oranges and ai.

Kevin L. Jackson (27:50):

Yeah, please give me some good news. Give us

Kevin Lawton (27:55):

Some good news. Let’s see. I think the good news is that there is a lot of new things happening in the supply chain space as we see these challenges. And I think as Dustin said here in the comments, there’s a lot of winning to be done in a down market. Shout out to Dustin, I know him. And I think the challenges though, spur these new innovations and new technologies and then ultimately transform the way we do things, which I think can lend itself to tie it back to that trucker survey lend itself to more flexibility and more comfort in workspaces and just better ways to do things overall. So I think that’s good news.

Scott Luton (28:33):

It is great news. It’s great news and I’m glad Dustin’s here because it’s so true. We can’t sit around and mope about it because as Dustin says, there’s a lot of winning to be done in a down market. Those that can endure and even advance will be market leaders of tomorrow. Very poetic there, very nice. He squared who holds down Fort Force on YouTube says saturation and contraction are really at play with trucking. And also he adds the cost of tariffs will always be paid on the backs of the pressed consumer. More folks seeing that consumer

(29:03):

Pressed. That’s right. And ais a great question. There is, as most would agree, there’s been an ongoing driver shortage for quite some time, although there’s some counterintuitive voices out there that may make a different case. Okay, we’re going to make a hard left turn or right turn or whatever. Kevin and Kevin, let’s talk about AI and oranges more bad news. This is bad news, but you know what, as Kevin Lawton suggested, it opens up some innovation and some opportunities. So folks, as reported by food dive citrus greening began hitting Florida crops over 20 years ago. Now you may have heard of citrus greening, but what I bet you haven’t heard is the degree of the destruction because this disease has infected most of Florida’s orange trees and has caused countless billions of dollars of damage. Get this US long ago, was responsible for 45% of the world’s orange supply, almost half of the world’s orange supply.

(30:02):

That number is all the way down at just 5% output in Florida alone has declined over 90% since 2005 due largely to citrus greening. Hurricanes have had a big deal too, but citrus greening has been the primary culprit. Now here’s the good news. Kevin L. Jackson and Kevin Lawton and AYAs and T Squared and Dust and everyone else. The Coca-Cola company, which makes minute made orange juice, is out to save the day with a keen eye on leveraging AI in terms of how to do it. The beverage Giant is a founding member of the MIT Generative AI impact consortium, whose primary goal is to utilize AI to address real world problems in a manner that helps global society. Love that. The consortium’s first major project is this one, save the Orange. I love Hey Set has my OJ details, how right. We’ll get more details on the how. But so far, Kevin L. Jackson, Kevin Lawton, no word yet on how sister screening impacts the Tang industry.

Kevin Lawton (31:10):

I used to be a big tang drinker when I was a

Scott Luton (31:12):

Kid. Definitely friend. Friend. Alright, so Kevin Lawton, I love, I picked this story because I think the degree of destruction is just much worse than I had thought. And then secondly, I love groups getting together to find practical and innovative ways of applying technology, as they say for the good of global society. Your thoughts, Kevin Lawton?

Kevin Lawton (31:32):

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I definitely was not aware of that massive decline in the orange supply out there and I love good orange juice, especially fresh squeezed orange juice. Beautiful. But yeah, I think that going back to what I was saying about good news, right? I mean I think these challenges in a sense allow us to be innovative and figure out how can we do this? And I think that’s kind of naturally what we do as humans when we’re back is against the wall and we don’t have that glass of orange juice. We got to solve that problem, right? That’s right. We got to figure it out. And I think it’d be really interesting to see how they apply AI to be able to help and navigate this issue and try and overcome some of these things. I can’t imagine a world without oranges. Oh man. No

Scott Luton (32:16):

Way. It’s heartbreaking. And I’m really interested as a non technologist to dive into the how to. My hunch is that I’ve seen some other sustainability driven AI genetics work being done to develop a stronger less disease suscept susceptible. We’ll see if that plays in Kevin L. Jackson. You’re one of the global go-tos when it comes to technology and all things cool technology. What’d you think about when you read the story?

Kevin L. Jackson (32:42):

Well, my technology didn’t come to mind for it. That’s unusual to be honest. But what did come to mind was does this mean that we’re going to need all these truckers to take all the California orange trees to Florida to replant, to replant,

Scott Luton (32:59):

Man. So you’re saying there’s opportunities despite the down cycle there. It’s going to be a theme here today,

Kevin L. Jackson (33:06):

Kevin,

Scott Luton (33:06):

Is that what you’re saying?

Kevin L. Jackson (33:07):

Yeah, it’s opportunities. I mean California is known for their orange trees as well.

Scott Luton (33:13):

That’s right, that’s right. The citrus agriculture in general out along the west coast. But we’re going to say, Kevin, let me ask you this. When it comes to the how, any guesses, any guesses that you’re thinking of there, Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (33:26):

Well actually AI is used quite broadly to create new compounds in new drugs. So you could actually, and to design genetically modify the oranges to be resistant to this disease. But when we started genetically modifying our meat, some people, some countries stopped importing the beef for instance, but that may be the path

Scott Luton (33:56):

Forward trade-offs. I’m really curious to see more details and see the progress we’re making. And by the way, shout out Kevin and Kevin to the team up at MIT for pulling together like the Justice League for all things ai. I’m looking forward to a bunch of wins, right? I am. I love that. Okay folks, we’re dropping the link, Trisha’s right there on it. We’re dropping a link to all these stories in the chat here today. Y’all check them out, let us know what you are thinking. T Square says that’s using AI as a tool and not a crutch. Hashtag well said. That’s right, Pascal, man. Pascal is bringing it here today too.

Kevin L. Jackson (34:29):

Yeah,

Scott Luton (34:30):

Orange blight that is in Florida would infect the California trees too. The answer might be in developing blight resistant trees. I agree with Kevin. Hey, if Pascal agrees with you, that means you’re saying the right things.

Kevin L. Jackson (34:41):

This is my

Scott Luton (34:41):

Hunch

Kevin L. Jackson (34:42):

Kevin. He left the S on there off there. You going to agree one Kevin, you got to agree with

Kevin Lawton (34:47):

The other? Maybe we need some orange trees that can grow in New Jersey.

Kevin L. Jackson (34:51):

Yes,

Kevin Lawton (34:52):

That’s what I say.

Scott Luton (34:52):

Yeah. Yeah man. Alright. And then Jonathan says, get this. My father was a truck driver for over 40 years and what I’ve learned is that they receive appreciation like any other honest worker.

Kevin L. Jackson (35:05):

I love. Yes.

Scott Luton (35:05):

It kind of goes against the observation we had from earlier, but I love that and I bet, man, I bet Jonathan’s father has some stories. Oh my.

Kevin Lawton (35:13):

We appreciate his father definitely.

Scott Luton (35:15):

No doubt, no doubt. Jonathan, big high five and hug for your father that played such a critical role for long. Alright, we’re about to dive into Kevin Lawton’s warehousing expertise and perspective. You’re not going to want to miss it, but before we do, do a quick message from our friends at Easy post folks. Are you looking to turn your tracking page into a revenue driver this peak season? Yeah, I am. I love that Easy post advanced tracking, what gives you branded tracking pages, real-time delivery updates and personalized upsell opportunities that keep customers engaged and delighted long after checkout. Now’s the time to upgrade your tracking experience and revenue with easy posts. Folks, you can learn more via the link we’re dropping right there in the chat. Okay. Kevin Lawton, me and Kevin L. Jackson woke up this morning with an extra level of curiosity and for some reason we woke up wanting to talk all things warehousing and we couldn’t think of a better person in the world to bring on the buzz to talk about it. So I want to ask you, Kevin Lawton, what are a couple of warehouse trends that you’re most intrigued with right now?

Kevin Lawton (36:16):

Yeah, absolutely, and I appreciate you having me on to talk about this. I think one thing that’s definitely intriguing to me right now, and I’m seeing a lot pop up are some of these smaller kind of in-between solutions that are solving little parts of the problems in the warehouse, but tying into the larger part, and I think that’s really interesting. We saw such a shift towards how can we automate or how can we make these larger solutions like picking or something address with robotics and things like that over the last several years now. But a lot of people are coming in with these. I think of it almost as we look at our smartphone, whether it’s Android or Apple, say I’m an Android guy myself, but

Scott Luton (37:04):

We learned that lesson,

Kevin Lawton (37:06):

But, but I think of it as almost like the app store in a sense where people are developing these small software solutions that are addressing issues like carbonization or leveraging AI to do more efficient pick paths and things like that. Going beyond these kind of core products, core solutions that we traditionally have had in the warehouse and being these little add-ons or tack ons that are making it very easy to excel and be more efficient and get those gains without making huge overhauls to their systems. And I think that’s one trend that’s been standing out to me for probably the past year, maybe two years or so, that more of these little things are coming into play and they’re making big differences without necessarily a huge lift by the operation to do that, which I think is really important to get some traction.

Scott Luton (37:52):

Kevin, I love that. It reminds me of, and y’all helped me find the term non-invasive surgery, speaking of non-invasive automation, not disruptive to the overall operation or the facility, what have you, but it comes with really big outcomes. Kevin Lawton, do I have that right?

Kevin Lawton (38:09):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think that’s the one thing in my beginning of my career, I came in and I was almost immediately into a WMS upgrade and I was just like flabbergasted how long it took everything that was so involved in it. But to your point, these little solutions now that are coming that are deployed in a couple weeks maybe if that long and making gains right away without a huge shift in change management and in culture and the way we do operations and processes, I think are really driving a lot of efficiency gains for a lot of operations out there now.

Scott Luton (38:43):

Well said. Kevin Jackson, you seen the same?

Kevin L. Jackson (38:46):

Yeah, so one of the things I’ve seen everyone, many people say AI is dooms fair, right? Just bringing a bad thing, getting rid of all the humans and business. But I’ve seen just the opposite companies that leverage AI with humans actually accelerate their innovation loop. They can see what’s happening faster, they can make observations, make decisions and change and enhance processes much faster when the humans are working with the ai. So the company’s warehouses especially actually become leaders because they become more innovative in how they are managing the processes and they’re redesigning the processes to provide more value to their supply chain partners.

Scott Luton (39:38):

Generally speaking. We talked about this last week, Kevin and Kevin when I was at change, new ASMs reinvigorated conference. It was a great event by the way, but one of the common themes we talked about is the need right now with a massive sense of urgency for business leaders and supply chain leaders to figure out how, especially using AI and other technologies, removing the pain and the friction and the manual stuff that get in the way of people’s day, the workforce’s day, the workforce already has a ton of anxiety, whether it’s economic anxiety or anxiety about technology transformation or you name it, right? Fill in the blank, man, that is a great way, starting with what brings friction by the truckload to your workforce is a great starting point to figure out where to leverage technology. Kevin Lawton, for sake of time, I want to circle back what other warehousing trend has really been front and center on your radar too?

Kevin Lawton (40:29):

Yeah, I think the movement towards, we’ve seen a lot in robotics automation, I’m sure we’ve all seen videos and things like that online. And for a long time I think that they were focused mostly on larger corporations and it seemed unattainable for small to medium sized businesses. And I’ve seen more solutions coming out startups or existing robotics automation companies to be able to address that small to medium-sized market. And that could be through unique pricing models. It could be for solutions that are leveraging existing infrastructure already. There’s a couple companies out there that have just come up recently that are leveraging existing racking and then attaching their robotics and automation to that existing racking. So examples like that I think are really interesting. I think that is a signal that we’re getting to a tipping point where we’re going to see further penetration of that into these smaller medium sized businesses that now it’s digestible and now it’s also more actionable as we just kind of talked about in previous conversation, to be able to move kind of quickly because you look at an Amazon, they got time and money to play around a little bit and test, right?

(41:40):

But the mid-size company that’s doing shipping, they don’t necessarily have that resource for that time to do some RD and play around. They need something that’s going to come in and is going to be effective and then over time is going to gain them some efficiency as well. So seeing a lot of that and a lot of focus on simplicity in that sense and how do we leverage maybe some things that are already existing in a facility instead of having to go full on Greenfield and be able to make a better implementation process in there.

Scott Luton (42:10):

Kevin, same. We just had a conversation last week or two about the brownfield sites and optimizing what you got rather than sinking millions or billions of dollars in new infrastructure. And the other thing Kevin L. Jackson he mentioned there, which I love, is a continued democratization of technology and the wherewithal so that the small can do what the bigs have been doing forever. Kevin,

Kevin L. Jackson (42:30):

What’d you hear there? Price points are coming down. That is always good. We’re getting away from the bleeding edge when it comes to automation, artificial intelligence and the fusion of advanced it into these business processes. We used to talk a lot about the old school industries really not adopting technology fast enough. That’s changing, but it has changed and I think part of it is the pandemic people stop being afraid of leveraging technology.

Scott Luton (43:03):

Kevin, I love that and I believe that too. I think one of my favorite signals coming out of the pandemic, Kevin and Kevin we’re hosting a panel event, this is four years ago or so, and a supply chain executive was talking about expense reports for the team members and she was describing how for decades they had this really convoluted process that

(43:23):

Made a lot of the penny counters happy, but it was a tremendous burden on the team and they would take hours out of their weeks whenever they had to submit an expense report. And she talked about how they just made a simple change, which made life easier and met all the regulatory accounting stuff that made life easier for the team members. And the leadership team was talking, man, why did we make this change years ago? Just to your point, Kevin O. Jackson, they just did it. Alright, we’re going to move fast and furious here and I added this question just for team Kevin. This is y’all’s. We’ve got the warehouse guru and the technology guru. Not that we haven’t talked about technology so far today, but what is one new tech in the new warehouse, Kevin Lawton, what’s one use case that’s hit your radar or maybe part of your site visits when it comes to new tech in the new warehousing scene?

Kevin Lawton (44:12):

Yeah, I think one that kind of aligns a lot of what we’ve been talking about here in the last couple minutes is certainly computer vision. I think computer vision is really kind of having a moment in the warehousing industry and I think because it hits on a lot of those points that we talked about, a lot of companies are coming with simplistic type of computer vision add-ons for existing equipment or they’re leveraging existing cameras that are already in the facility, but that’s giving them a huge additional perspective and also capturing so much more data than they had previously to get more real time and more understanding of what is actually happening. That could be from inventory control auditing perspective, could be from a load perspective, could be from safety perspective seen as well. And I think that is a technology that’s really ramping up and I think that it’s very accessible too as well and hits a lot of those points that we talked about before.

Scott Luton (45:11):

Yeah, well said Kevin. I’ll tell you, it’s generating tons and tons of more data. We’re more data rich by the hour. Kevin L. Jackson, what’d you hear there my friend?

Kevin L. Jackson (45:19):

I have to agree with computer vision because when you see that data and you are aware of how easy it is to collect and observe that data, then the art of the possible becomes much more viable and you can get buy-in from the executive much faster because they can see it themselves. It’s tangible. So the use of computer vision, the direct linkage to your shop floor business processes, the warehouse floor and feedback from the workers and the department heads that say, Hey, this is really good stuff. I think that’s important.

Scott Luton (46:00):

Yeah, I think it’s powering both of your perspectives there and the art of not just the possible but the art of what’s happening. The art of reality. Maybe

Kevin L. Jackson (46:09):

It’s now.

Scott Luton (46:10):

That’s

Kevin L. Jackson (46:10):

Right.

Scott Luton (46:10):

We got to explore more. We’re really excited about this next generation nuclear movement and looking forward to seeing how we can bring that more online. So not only can we fuel more power that we need to advance innovation but also do it in a cleaner, innovative way. We’ll see. We can’t dive into it here today, but stay tuned on that. Okay, a couple quick comments before we get a check in on what’s going on at the new warehouse T Square, talking about Rudy again. Rudy from the Jetsons one button makes it happen. The first super main you YouTube great to see you asking about what they can do and what they can study to get into this industry. Hold that question for just a minute. We’re going to try to get to it and NIR talks about we got to get people educated on AI

(46:49):

Be familiar with those tools. They’re saying, Hey, let’s study it before we use it in so many words of what Naer is sharing. That’s an interesting point. Nir, great to have you here. I appreciate you sharing. Okay, Kevin Lawton, you have been busy. I want to make sure folks, speaking of getting educated and informed and learned up the new warehouse, it’s fast approaching 650 episodes. You’ll be there probably in weeks or so, folks, you can find the new warehouse on wherever you get your podcasts. Kevin, what’s the latest and greatest? What’s new that’s exciting you about the journey you’re on at the new warehouse?

Kevin Lawton (47:20):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think all the conversations I get to have are always exciting because I’m super passionate about this space, but I think recently we’ve put a real focus on getting some voices from the end user, the shipper to be on the podcast as well. And we’re trying, we release two episodes a week, so Monday and Wednesday of our normal podcast. We’ve been trying to balance that with getting one end user, one solution provider on each week. And I think that’s been really insightful and it’s really interesting to hear from both perspectives and it’s really interesting to hear what are people actually doing in their operations, what are they actually looking at and hearing some projects and stories that they’ve gone through and their journeys as well. So that’s probably what’s really exciting me right now.

Scott Luton (48:07):

Yeah, love it. Kevin Lawton and folks, it’s must see, must see content you can check out New Warehouse where your podcasts and warehouses are indeed sexy. Almost as sexy as Kevin L. Jackson. Kevin, thank you, I appreciate

Kevin L. Jackson (48:24):

That.

Scott Luton (48:26):

So you get the billion dollar wrap up question before we make sure folks that I connect with y’all both Kevin L. Jackson, what’s one point of all the goodness that Kevin Lawton has brought here today? What’s one key takeaway you’d suggest to folks keep front and center?

Kevin L. Jackson (48:38):

Well, first of all, how warehouses are changing, how supply chain is changing, how technology is really affecting what we think about when we think about logistics. So one of the things that I’ve been working on, I know I haven’t been on the show, but you are going to be hearing quite soon about a company I’ve been working with called a Space Phoenix system. And I’ll ask the team to share that link because it’s blending logistics and supply chain to the low earth orbit economy. They call themselves in fact the FedEx of Low Earth orbit.

Scott Luton (49:19):

Oh, that’s cool. We’re going to have to dive in and invest an episode here, Kevin Long.

Kevin L. Jackson (49:28):

I need to hear more about that. Think about the possibilities here we are of logistics and space. If you want to learn more about that, you can follow me on LinkedIn and right here on supply chain now with Digital Transformers.

Scott Luton (49:43):

That’s right. Space phoenix.com. Check it out folks and let us know what you think. Also, Trisha, it’s dropping. Make sure you define subscribe to supply chain now wherever you get your podcast. And Kevins leads me to asking you the final question, how can folks connect with you and the new warehouse that’s on the move?

Kevin Lawton (50:01):

Yeah, absolutely. This week actually I’ll be on the move a lot. Actually I’m flying to Vegas tonight for the Shapiro AI and logistics event, which I’m super excited about. They’re going to have

Kevin L. Jackson (50:12):

Some, I left my money there

Kevin Lawton (50:14):

Activities. Okay. If I find you will double down the back

Kevin L. Jackson (50:18):

Spot machine on the right hand side as you go down this trip, please

Kevin Lawton (50:22):

Gotcha. I’ll look out for that. So excited for that. Going to get some hands-on AI learning there I think, which will be pretty cool. And then going over to intro Logistics Wednesday night in Miami to do a speaking session on Thursday about warehouse innovation and then going to head to Chicago for Friday to check out. Speaking of computer vision, check out Avis new experience center they have there. So yeah, been a little crazy this week.

Scott Luton (50:48):

Hang on sec, Kevin, hang on a sec. Kevin Lawton, I don’t move as fast as both of y’all, but I’ve been tracking my map here. New Jersey to Vegas, to Miami, to Chicago,

Kevin Lawton (50:57):

With

Scott Luton (50:58):

Stop in it here on the buzz all in one week. Kevin Lawton.

Kevin Lawton (51:01):

Yeah, I think I’m going to leverage the low Earth orbit.

Scott Luton (51:04):

Yes booster.

Kevin L. Jackson (51:09):

You need some.

Scott Luton (51:10):

Looking

Kevin L. Jackson (51:11):

Forward

Scott Luton (51:11):

To hearing all of your key takeaways from what sounds like a great week out in industry. And folks, you can find again, the new warehouse out wherever you get your podcast. And we’re also going to drop a link to the new warehouse, which we already have it right here. How about that? Tricia is on the money, the new warehouse. You can go learn more about all the cool things Kevin’s up to. And Kevin L. Jackson, really appreciate you stopping in. We’re going to get you back on your regular cadence.

Kevin L. Jackson (51:35):

Yes, lease do

Scott Luton (51:36):

All about space, supply chain and many other things that the technology guru is up to. So big thanks to Kevin L. Jackson for being here today. I’m happy. It is exciting. Happy the

Kevin L. Jackson (51:46):

World of supply chain. Just excites me, man.

Scott Luton (51:50):

Well you know what? That’s why you fit in so well. Amazing what supply chain does. And folks, you can find Kevin L. Jackson on LinkedIn right there, one click away. You can find Kevin Lawton right there on LinkedIn. You can follow up, follow what all the cool things are doing. Big thanks to Kevin Lawton with New Warehouse. Kevin, we need to have you like Kevin L. Jackson here. Make it a regular appearance and a regular cadence you game.

Kevin Lawton (52:12):

Sure, yeah. You got my email. Lemme know

Scott Luton (52:15):

Kevins always Team Kevin.

Kevin Lawton (52:18):

Yes

Scott Luton (52:19):

Folks, big thanks to Amanda and Tricia behind the scenes. They had a lot to keep up with here today. Know we couldn’t hit everybody’s comment and question, but really appreciate you being here. The smartest audience in all of global supply chain. But you got homework folks. You got to take one thing that team Kevin shared here today. Just one thing, share it with your team, do something with it. It’s all about deeds, not words. That’s the name of the game. And with that said, folks, have a great week ahead. Thank a trucker, high five, a trucker, you name it. They are incredible people doing incredible professional work. And with all that said, on behalf of the entire supply chain now team Scott Luton challenge. You do good, give forward, beat the change that’s needed. We’ll see you next time, right back here on Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (52:56):

Join the supply chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now.com. Subscribe to supply chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to supply chain. Now, wherever you get your podcasts.