Intro/Outro (00:00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott Luton (00:00:31):

Hey. Hey. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, Scott Luton, Greg White, and Kevin L. Jackson here with you on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s livestream.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:00:38):

Hello.

Scott Luton (00:00:39):

Gregory, how are we doing?

Greg White (00:00:41):

Well, other than being a little bit unshaven, I’m doing pretty well. All things considered, you know, the news about SVB Friday hit me personally and a lot of people that I do business pretty directly, so I didn’t spend a lot of time shaving this weekend. Tthough I did happen to get to an early St. Patrick’s Day parade. So, it’s been a little fun.

Scott Luton (00:01:07):

Excellent. Well, we’re going to talk about what you mentioned on the frontend in about ten minutes here and get some of you and Kevin’s take. Kevin, how are you doing today?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:01:15):

Well, I’m apprehensive, let’s put it that way. You know, I live on East Coast, the Washington D.C. area, and everybody went through Sunday where we lost that hour sleep with the clocks jumping forward. And now I got to jump on a plane tomorrow and fly out to the West Coast to San Francisco. So, my circadian rhythm is going to be, as they say in the military, AFU, baby.

Scott Luton (00:01:48):

Well, I like that. And I also like how you pronounced the city where the Giants and the Niners play, San Francisco, emphasis on that last syllable. Well, Greg and Kevin, great to have you back. Greg, of course, Kevin joins us every second Tuesday of the month for our Digital Transformers version of The Supply Chain Buzz. And as if that’s not great enough to have Kevin with us, we’ve got a special guest joining in about 12:25 today as Michael Pytel with Fulfilld is going to be joining us as well.

Scott Luton (00:02:19):

So, hey, beyond Greg and Kevin and Michael’s POV and expertise, we want to hear yours. So, I see a few folks already in the comments. We’re going to say hello in just a moment. Okay. So, Greg and Kevin, before we get to work, I want to do some programming notes, we’re going to say hello to a few folks, and then we’ve got a lot of stuff to get into today that I think folks can find very informational and, hopefully, inspirational. We’ll see.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:02:44):

Scott. Scott, you know we only have a five pound bag, why you keep bringing ten pounds?

Scott Luton (00:02:51):

It’s in my nature, man. It is in my nature. Everything we can fit in that five pound bag. It’s the opposite of shrinkflation, right, Greg? It’s the opposite.

Greg White (00:03:00):

Yeah, that’s right. You know, on that point, Scott, I discovered that Budweiser long necks are now only 11 ounces.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:08):

Oh, they’re cutting back.

Scott Luton (00:03:11):

Man, they really snuck that 12th ounce out of there, huh?

Greg White (00:03:14):

Yeah. The bottle is just slightly smaller.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:19):

They’re trying to help you protect your girlish figure there.

Greg White (00:03:24):

Yeah. I just drank 12, so it would [inaudible].

Scott Luton (00:03:29):

There we go.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:29):

It made it up.

Greg White (00:03:30):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:03:31):

It’s all about leveling up. So, anyway, let’s share a couple of quick opportunities for folks. So, first off, we’re really excited about this webinar coming up March 21st,. Who’s not creating content these days, right? Well, we’re going to be offering up 5 Tips For Creating Effective Digital Content. Greg and I are bringing in a couple of friends – y’all may know them. I know Kevin does – Ursula Ringham with SAP and, the one and only, Brandi Boatner with IBM. Brandi, who hosts a wonderful radio show, she’s going to talk more about. But, Kevin, Brandi is quite the rock and roll star, huh?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:04:10):

Oh, absolutely. I got an opportunity to hang out with her at the Wimbledon up in New York earlier this year. I guess it was this year. That was fun. Well, maybe it was last year. But that was fun. We had an out on the lawn there by Brooklyn Bridge watching on the big screen the Wimbledon.

Scott Luton (00:04:36):

Well, I saw lots of content from that and it was very entertaining, engaging, educational. Lot of stuff we’re getting after on this March 21st webinar. So, Greg, looking forward to that one. And then, secondly, I want to share with folks, so this was With That Said over the weekend. So, Greg, we need to sit down and talk about this one day, an instant replay NFL, of course, the Kansas City Chiefs, your team, the reigning world champions. But we talked about instant replay and maybe applying instant replay to the global business space and we’re like, “Hey, maybe it should be continuous pre-play?” Kind of a little play on giving folks information they need. Greg, your thoughts whether it’s instant replay or continuous pre-play, or the Chiefs.

Greg White (00:05:26):

Yeah. Well, it’s funny, I love this phrase that I heard once somebody say, Hindsight is 50/50. Which may be more accurate than 20/20. And if you think about the way we talk about pre-play or – what should we say? – premonition, forecasting, and that sort of thing, we use hindsight to try and gauge what the future will be. So, in business it’s a pretty different experience. Now, to football —

Kevin L. Jackson (00:05:59):

Using hindsight to gain foresight. And we found out during the pandemic that don’t work, baby. In supply chain, that don’t work.

Greg White (00:06:10):

That’s right. What is it they say? Past performance is no indication of future value. Now, on the NFL field, I would say, yes, instant. And when I say instant, instant replay could be used to challenge certain calls, like calls where it’s called roughing the passer, when, in fact, by the time the passer hits the ground, he’s no longer the ball carrier and the ball has already been turned over to the defense, Chris Jones and Derek Carr.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:06:43):

More AI and instant replay.

Scott Luton (00:06:45):

Yes. That’s right. And as Greg and Kevin are illustrating, we had a lot of fun with this notion of instant replay within business. And, look, we really put it out there to hopefully inspire some conversations and get y’alls take. So, do that. Check that out. We also dropped a link in the chat. We publish With That Said just about every Saturday morning, LinkedIn Newsletter. And come on and join about 20,393 of your best friends as we dive in those conversations.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:07:13):

Ninety-four.

Scott Luton (00:07:15):

Ninety-four. Thanks, Kevin. All right.

Greg White (00:07:18):

We should have a ticker. We need a ticker in the corner.

Scott Luton (00:07:22):

Yes, we do.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:07:22):

Right.

Scott Luton (00:07:24):

Hey, building that has been certainly a passionate project of the whole team here. Because we launched that probably, Greg, what? Four months ago, maybe, or something like that?

Greg White (00:07:33):

Actually, it does seem like that long, but I think it has been. And it has grown so fast, right?

Scott Luton (00:07:38):

That’s right. We’ve gotten a ton of feedback. So, y’all join in and let us know what you’d like to see. But most importantly, join in the conversation. All right. So, Kevin and Greg, we’re going to say hello to a few folks and we’re going to dive into a couple of big stories and segments. Zainabu tuning in via LinkedIn from Kenya. Great to see you here today. John Perry, one of our faves. John, hopefully, you brought that great sense of humor today. One of our favorites here around on The Buzz. Angela tuned in from North Carolina via LinkedIn. Great to see you, Angela. Dmaine Harris from Metro Detroit – I love that – via LinkedIn.

Greg White (00:08:14):

Whereabouts, Dmaine?

Scott Luton (00:08:16):

Yeah. Let us know what part of the reinvigorated City of Detroit that you are haling from. Joseph, “You guys are great. I love last week’s webinar and you drew me back in.” Joseph, man, I appreciate that.

Greg White (00:08:29):

As soon as I was out, they pulled me back in.

Scott Luton (00:08:33):

Well, Joseph, thank you for the feedback. Certainly, we’re very grateful for lots and lots of feedback. Antonio from Detroit as well. Okay.

Greg White (00:08:45):

Yeah, man.

Scott Luton (00:08:46):

Detroit is in the house.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:08:47):

You know, last night I saw this show about Detroit son, Eminem.

Scott Luton (00:08:53):

You saw Eminem’s backstory, huh?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:08:58):

Yeah. That was pretty enlightening.

Scott Luton (00:09:00):

Okay. All right. We’ll have to check that out. Greg is tuned in from Wisconsin, “Zero inches of snow.”

Greg White (00:09:09):

I think that’s supposed to be ten.

Scott Luton (00:09:10):

No. Ten inches of snow. Yeah. Ten inches of snow. My eyes are messing with me. And he says, “Go, Marquette.” Hey, everybody is filling out their brackets right now. I know our team is. We got an internal challenge. But, Greg, great to have you back as always. And, hey, mom. Good morning, Leah Luton, from Aiken, South Carolina.

Greg White (00:09:28):

Hi, mom.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:09:29):

Hey, Leah. Thank you. You got a shoutout. I like that.

Scott Luton (00:09:32):

Yeah. Everybody’s a big fan of Greg and Kevin. So, great to have mom as part of the conversation.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:09:38):

You’re still paying her, right?

Scott Luton (00:09:39):

Yeah. Well, she gets that —

Kevin L. Jackson (00:09:40):

Oh, okay.

Scott Luton (00:09:41):

She’s an ambassador – a paid ambassador. I should put that out there. Right, Greg?

Greg White (00:09:47):

Every Mother’s Day, she gets paid.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:09:48):

That’s nice.

Scott Luton (00:09:50):

All right. Folks, well, you came to the right place today. Supply Chain Buzz takes place every Monday at 12:00 noon Eastern Time. We got a jammed up episode. We’ve got two big things we’re going to dive into with Greg and Kevin, and then we’ve got our special guest, Michael Pytel with Fulfilld joining us about 12:25. So, let’s start with this, let’s get to work here. So, Greg, of course, really kidding aside, some really tough news and developments that have been coming out in the last three or four days. SVB, Silicon Valley Bank, the second biggest bank to ever go under. And then, the third biggest, in Signature, followed that. So, rather than dive into the story – folks can find that across different headlines – I’d rather dial it in with your expertise. As you mentioned on the frontend, I mean, this has been your space for no more than two decades. That’s our standing rule.

Greg White (00:10:42):

Thank you for saying that.

Scott Luton (00:10:42):

But you’ve got a unique purview on this situation because of the different angles and different sectors and positions you’ve been in as a fellow founder, but also as an investor, experience in peace space, and a lot more. So, tell us what would your advice to fellow founders be when it comes to navigating these cash flow pitfalls, I’ll call them?

Greg White (00:11:05):

First of all, I think a little bit of backstory is appropriate here. Because before Friday or Thursday, almost no one had heard of Silicon Valley Bank if you weren’t in the tech space. The 16th biggest bank in the country, still huge, 209 billion in assets under management, 90 percent of which was not insured because of the size of accounts. And the reason that, Scott, we need to talk about this is this is the bank that founders and venture capitalists and private equity firms put their money into, 250,000 insured, but often tens of millions or even billions of dollars in accounts at this bank. And so many, many companies were highly exposed when the bank went under.

Greg White (00:11:51):

It actually was taken over by the FDIC. They walk in, they tell everyone you’re fired, they shut the doors and, literally, chain lock them, in so many cases. And the bank literally goes away. It goes away virtually instantaneously. The FDIC creates another bank into which everyone’s assets are moved. That’s the insured bank. And up to 250,000 of your money is insured.

Greg White (00:12:18):

And we saw a lot of rhetoric over the weekend, especially politicians and bureaucrats. Of course, they have to be heard. They have to feel seen and be seen. And a lot of them said, we’re not going to backstop the bank. Well, of course, we never backstop the bank. We backstop the depositors. So, I think that’s the thing we have to recognize here. Janet Yellen literally did nothing. The FDIC did all this work based on the structure that is in place. And so far, it looks like all deposits will be secured and restored, and I believe have been restored as of today from the reserves that the FDIC has.

Greg White (00:13:01):

But let’s think about what day it is. It is March 13th, two days from March 15th. Most companies pay on a twice monthly schedule. So, on Friday, tens of thousands of companies found out they won’t be able to make payroll on Monday because they have to send it to the bank, or get it scheduled to be paid, all that sort thing. So, that creates quite the crisis. Will we ever get our money back, creates quite the crisis. How could this happen?

Greg White (00:13:35):

I mean, if you’ve been following any of this on the news or through the multiple phone calls that I’ve gotten over the weekend, then you understand the strain that this puts on the market. There’s lots of speculation as to whether other banks will go down. Signature Bank did go down. Other banks got backstopped. First Republic, which is a big competitor – relatively big competitor of SVB, got money from J.P. Morgan. SVB UK got bought for one pound, not one pound of anything, just one great working pound by HSBC. And that’s if SVB in the States sells, that’s what it’ll sell for. But in the meantime, these companies had an incredible liquidity crisis. Tens of millions or even billions of dollars just disappeared overnight. Fortunately, that’s been taken care of.

Greg White (00:14:28):

But one lesson we can learn here from these banks is don’t put yourself in a cash flow crisis. And I say that to founders, to businesses, whether you’re in technology or not, and to banks, because we will see more bank failures. It’s inevitable. This is not a singular effect. There’s already been a bank in India, 116 year old bank, that will probably go out of business on the back of SVB. But don’t put yourself in a liquidity crisis.

Greg White (00:14:59):

And part of the problem is that so many companies in the tech space have been betting on really, really risky things because they got this huge influx of cash and they thought, “Well, we can’t deploy all this to improve the company all at once. So, in the meantime, let’s invest it. Let’s invest it in things like bonds and crypto -” God help you if you’ve done that – and other things that they’ve been trying to make extra money on or they’ve tied up their money in CDs or other things that have been growing interest as interests has gotten so much higher, both the interest that we pay and the interest that we can receive on deposit.

Greg White (00:15:41):

So, focus on what you’re good at. Put your money into what your business is. And recognize that your business is building software, or building widgets, or employing labor, or delivering services, or whatever, moving trucks, that sort of thing. Put your money into something that you know and that you can control to avoid this kind of liquidity crisis. That’s probably the best advice that I can give.

Greg White (00:16:10):

The other is, Scott, we were just talking about hindsight is 50/50, or 20/20, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Hindsight, as we know, is not necessarily a gauge of the future. And for 13 years we’ve been on this great bull run of economy where money was essentially free. Interest rates were almost zero. And as rates started to increase, people didn’t change their understanding of their business model. They were blind to this. And if you go to my commentary, I go into a little bit more detail on that. But, also, recognize when the world is changing. Don’t see everything that doesn’t affirm your current belief as a blip or as a glitch in the matrix or whatever. Recognize that things could be changing and that it could be an accumulation of issues like this.

Greg White (00:17:01):

Silicon Valley Bank or every bank should have seen this coming. And it took an unbelievable amount of hubris gluttony, greed – not just greed and avarice, which by the way is redundant. They didn’t need to say both in the title but [inaudible]. You got me to use that article – and just sloth thinking we can just sit back here and make money because we’ve been doing it for 13 years. Well, the game has changed, and it’s time to recognize that – its way past time to recognize that. I encourage companies to get ahead of that. Look around corners. Look for problems, not away from problems. Look at changes, and recognize that they could be foundational changes to the environment that you’re playing in. It’s like if you start a football game on a sunny day and it suddenly starts snowing. Or in the old Chicago Bears game, it gets so foggy you can’t see a pass thrown or coming at you. You have to change how you play the game when things change that dramatically.

Scott Luton (00:18:02):

Greg, well said and really enjoyed it. Maybe the team can drop the link to your must see POV, your supply chain commentary every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And Kevin, I want to get your thoughts here, but one of the things I heard from Greg is stick to your strengths. Don’t act like T. Rowe Price if you’re T. Rowe Payne or a software founder. Kevin, your thoughts here.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:18:23):

Well, I mean, first thing, I agree with everything that Greg said. But foundational to that, what he said is that business is about using assets, tangible and intangible but assets, things that have value to deliver value to society. You know, business isn’t about trying to leverage something that has no value. And that brings up like the difference between cryptocurrency – which many cryptocurrencies, there are no underlying assets – and crypto securities, where there are actual assets that support the crypto security. And the thing that if you’re running a business, like SVB, they took their customers money and invested in the bond market. But when the bond market was losing and they were losing in the crypto as well, management didn’t change anything. They just sat there. It was a lack of management taking care or doing their job, their fiduciary responsibilities And that’s just wrong. That’s just being a crook. That’s just not doing your job. And I feel for companies that may have a liquidity crisis because of things that are outside of their control. But this wasn’t outside their control. This was —

Greg White (00:20:24):

Right. It’s some conflicted wound, Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:20:25):

Yeah. Yeah. So, no pity here. Sorry.

Scott Luton (00:20:29):

Greg and Kevin, I appreciate both of y’all’s perspective here. I’m sure we’ll be talking a lot more about this in the shows to come. But for the sake of today’s show, we got about five, six minutes before we bring in our guest, and I want to get closer to what we usually touch on all the time, which is global supply chain. And, Kevin, you brought this article today where we talk about don’t start and stop with just robotics when it comes to really going after all that digital transformation offers. So, tell us more here, Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:21:02):

Well, robots are a part of digital transformation, right? And when you do deploy robots, you also need to look at your own business processes and you use robotic process automation. But many enterprises have actually encountered roadblocks when they use RPA and they found it was very lacking and they couldn’t achieve all of the benefits of digital transformation. And the reasons for that is because a lot of times RPA kind of falls short when it comes to execution with projects taking, you know, nine, ten months to get deployed. RPAs really don’t address the frontend user interface. And it doesn’t define new workflows. You, as the owner of the business that know the business, supposedly, need to redefine the workflows. And RPA has limited ability to really automate processes end to end. And they can break. So, you have to do your job in monitoring.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:22:14):

I mean, humans are important, even in robotic process automation. And so, when you are trying to govern these robots across BART Farms, it becomes very challenging, especially when the enterprises are using bots from multiple vendors to do different things. So, what that means is that you really have to be intelligent about your automation. And that requires the orchestration of automation technologies like process mapping. And you need to leverage intelligence technology, like artificial intelligence, machine learning, and computer vision. And, finally, you need a solid next-gen IT infrastructure that’s built on top of Cloud with applications that run in containers on composable infrastructures. Now, if you don’t understand that last sentence, you are going to fail in digital transformation. And that’s really what’s happening out there. People, they don’t understand the foundation of digital transformation.

Scott Luton (00:23:43):

All right. So, Greg, I’m going to get you to chime in really quickly here, but one of the things I heard here from Kevin is orchestration. Take advantage of robots and everything that digital transformation offers, but you got to have a Mozart or Lydia Tar involved to maestro it all. Greg, your thoughts here?

Greg White (00:24:01):

Yeah. Well, I think digital transformation isn’t about digital at all, as Kevin has often told us. I mean, this is one thing I’ve learned from the master over the last several years, is, it’s not about digital at all. To his point, it’s about enabling or replacing activities that humans are doing or used to do or shouldn’t do. It’s those dark, dirty, dangerous, and dull jobs. It’s things like that.

Greg White (00:24:32):

But one thing that you said about the implementations, I think a couple things need to change. One, we need to re realize that AI, built AI, actual intelligence, builds artificial intelligence. And for artificial intelligence to become educated, to become intelligence, it has to ingest actual intelligence, which comes from humans and the actions that they’ve done or the outcomes they desire in a process, the things that they know about the data, or the process, or the goals. And so, it’s critical that we make that link between people.

Greg White (00:25:13):

And the other is to recognize that – you know, I say this all the time – real digital transformation, it isn’t a spreadsheet, it isn’t even RPA. I mean, RPA, first of all, it stuns me, Kevin, that it could take nine months to do that. Most RPA could be done with a keystroke recorder and some very simple logic. Did an invoice arrive? Yes. Check this field, that field, the other field, whatever. So, there’s not a lot of —

Kevin L. Jackson (00:25:43):

Simple tasks, that’s what it’s designed for.

Greg White (00:25:44):

There’s not a lot of science in RPA. So, it is ground level digital transformation at best. A lot of what, Kevin, you talked about, it is AI, it is blockchain, it is transformational and scientific, it is doing things as humans would do them with much greater speed, much greater accuracy, and much less human intervention or repetitive motions.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:26:12):

Errors. Much less human errors.

Greg White (00:26:14):

Right. And it really is transformational to the business. RPA is kind of like the spreadsheet of automation, if you want to think of it that way. It’s really, really [inaudible] and it does great stuff, but it’s not the top of the heap. And I think we need to think about what digital transformation, first of all, is for. It is for an outcome. And if you start with that outcome and work your way backwards, sure, you’ll do some RPA, you’ll probably do some AI, you may even do some blockchain, or other things. But the key is to focus on how it enables people to either do a job more effectively, like assisted robots do, or to not do a job that humans are not fit for that requires greater accuracy or danger or repetitive motion that we don’t want humans to have to be involved in.

Scott Luton (00:27:13):

All right. We got to leave it there. Thank you, Greg and Kevin. Always love talking Digital Transformation with Kevin L. Jackson. But, hey, we got a great second half of the show here. We’ve got a very special guest joining us, Greg and Kevin. With no further ado, I want to bring him right on in. Michael Pytel, Chief Technology Officer with Fulfilld. Hey. Hey. Michael, how are you doing?

Michael Pytel (00:27:35):

Hey, everybody. Happy Monday from the high [inaudible] Denver, Colorado.

Greg White (00:27:41):

Is it 70 or snowing, Michael?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:27:43):

Wait a second, it just changed.

Michael Pytel (00:27:47):

I hope snow doesn’t ruin our St. Patty’s Day plans on Friday.

Scott Luton (00:27:53):

Well, I bet you were chomping off a bit through the first half of the show to jump right in. We had a couple of really neat pre-show conversations. But let’s – I was going to say, let’s get to the important stuff. Right before we get into a couple of stories that you brought us, Michael, that we’re going to dive into, let’s celebrate something. So, yesterday was National Girl Scout Day. It coincides with the founding date of the organization that’s helped so many folks become business leaders and helps so many folks on the journey. But we love talking food here at Supply Chain Now. For a lot of us, it is Girl Scout cookie season as well. So, Michael, fun warmup question here, what is your favorite Girl Scout cookie?

Michael Pytel (00:28:38):

That’s amazing. I love when the Girl Scouts run those specials, like if you buy three, you get the fourth free. So, for me, it’s the ones with the coconut. It’s he Samoas, I think they’re called, or Samosas, the ones with the coconut. Fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely.

Scott Luton (00:28:53):

That’s at the bottom of my list. But that’s okay. That’s okay. Different strokes, different folks. Kevin, your favorite Girl Scout cookie?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:29:02):

Nothing but Shortbread, baby.

Scott Luton (00:29:05):

Okay.

Greg White (00:29:06):

That’s a very simple but elegant approach. I like that.

Scott Luton (00:29:09):

Yes. Simple but elegant. I like that, Greg. All right, Greg?

Greg White (00:29:12):

Thin Mints, frozen, 100 percent.

Scott Luton (00:29:16):

Same. Same.

Greg White (00:29:17):

Frozen. Yeah. Put them in the freezer, man. It’s game changing.

Scott Luton (00:29:21):

Greg, I think we’ve talked about this best practice each year for the last four years.

Greg White (00:29:26):

Is that right? Okay.

Scott Luton (00:29:27):

Yes. So, we got to shout from the mountaintops more and help folks out there. But Thin Mints, frozen a little bit, man, they are delightful. And they get today’s blue ribbon.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:29:41):

No, no, no, no.

Greg White (00:29:43):

Oh, man. I didn’t realize there was a prize. So, your Thin Mints frozen as well?

Scott Luton (00:29:47):

Yes.

Greg White (00:29:48):

Okay.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:29:49):

No. No. When we have Armageddon, those shortbreads are going to be right there. I would have eaten my shortbreads and you guys are going to be wondering why yours melted chocolate and Thin Mints.

Greg White (00:30:00):

There’s going to plenty of Samoas left over, Kevin. Because I’ve already told my entire family, if coconut was the last food on earth, I would starve to death.

Scott Luton (00:30:09):

Oh, Michael. Fighting words. Fighting words. All right. Well, thank you —

Greg White (00:30:14):

All those for you, Michael.

Scott Luton (00:30:16):

That’s right. You’ve got all the supply in the world.

Michael Pytel (00:30:18):

That’s great.

Scott Luton (00:30:18):

Okay. Thank you all for playing along. And folks in the chat, y’all let us know. Where have we gone wrong? Katherine says, “I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say Shortbread is their favorite.”

Greg White (00:30:29):

Well, let’s see hers.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:30:31):

You know, all you guys, don’t eat no Shortbreads. Okay? You don’t want them. They’re nasty. You know —

Scott Luton (00:30:38):

I hear you.

Michael Pytel (00:30:40):

Do you drink [inaudible]? Do you eat those with – do you drink tea with that?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:30:43):

No, no, no. Jack Daniels go well with [inaudible].

Scott Luton (00:30:51):

When you talk about Girl Scout Cookies, you never know where the conversation goes. So, thank y’all for playing along. Kidding side, we got a lot of stuff to get into here with Michael. Michael, great to have you here from beautiful Denver, Colorado. For starters, I want to talk picking back up on this article here from our friends at Wall Street Journal, robotic limitations. Kevin and Greg were kind of alluding to this on the last segment of the conversation. Robotic limitations are holding back some efforts to fully automate fulfillment centers. So, Michael, tell us more here.

Michael Pytel (00:31:29):

As a child of the ’80s when movies were great, Oscars last night, and you see all these robot movies, I love robots. Now, I think the real world is starting to set in, though, in that there’s just a lot of different products to move out there. And until a robot can develop its opposable thumbs like a human being, we’re just going to have a hard time deploying these robots fully in a warehouse to have that dark warehouse. Robots are, in my mind, supportive to human beings. They’re additive. They are going to replace some of our activities, but not all of our activities. So, I think it’s super important. And I think one thing that this article highlights is, these technologies are going to coexist with human beings in the future, not necessarily replace us.

Scott Luton (00:32:09):

Very nicely said, Michael. That falls right in the line, I think, Greg, to what we have chatted about for years now. But, Greg, your thoughts around what Michael just shared as well as this article here from the Wall Street Journal about some of the limitations when it comes to robotic technologies.

Greg White (00:32:26):

Yeah. Well, I’ve seen dark warehouses before, and as it turns out, it still takes a human even just to sweep the floor, so they’re not completely dark. But I think we have to think of things in terms of layers. There are aspects of a business that can be completely dark. I think of one of my favorite, Wine and Spirits warehouse that I went to in Norway once, where one section was completely automated. This was easily ten years ago – yeah, easily ten years ago. For instance, that was entire pallets being shipped. All the pallets were scanned. They were literally in a dark section. I guess they were just trying to make the point by leaving the lights out. They were literally in a dark section and they were robotically selected and placed on a conveyor, and then conveyed down to a truck, robotically placed on the truck.

Greg White (00:33:19):

But you have to juxtapose that with, for instance, vintage wines, which they’re not going to let a robot anywhere near one $1,000 bottle or 500 or 50 bottle. And those were being hand selected and carefully placed in individual sockets that went into what looked like a case of wine box. So, we have to think about, to Michael’s point, where robots are assisted, where robots are the complete solution, and where they aren’t the solution at all. And to think, especially right now – I’m not saying that it can’t ever happen. It would be crazy to say that anything can’t ever happen – today, we can’t even envision where a robot could do certain things, certain of the really delicate or intricate activities. Because even with opposable thumbs, who wants to risk a $1,000 bottle of wine [inaudible] in moving and shipping it? I mean, that’s really the kind of economic weighting you have to consider. So, if we think about it in layers, instead of think about the great robot overtaking, like I, Robot, not the company, but the movie —

Scott Luton (00:34:42):

Isaac Asimov.

Greg White (00:34:44):

… I think that’s more where we’ll land. And by the way, robots don’t go out and apply for jobs. Guess who brings them to the site to employ them? People.

Scott Luton (00:34:55):

Good stuff there, Greg. All right. Kevin, I want you to weigh in. And then, Michael, I’m going to give you the final word on this first article, then we’re going to move to the next one. Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:35:03):

We’re in a nod to the Oscars. Movies are built on fantasy. So, I love robot movies too, but they are fantasy. And number two, robot is not the right name. They are cobots. They are there to assists humans. And as long as you keep that in mind, you’ll be fine. Don’t go into fantasy. I love movies. But I know I’m looking at a fantasy. So, when you’re in business, understand what you see in a movie is a fantasy and what you’re deploying aren’t robots. They are cobots. Make sure you understand how they are cooperating with the humans in order to make your business better.

Scott Luton (00:35:56):

Kevin, I love that. I love that. Folks, you can check out the article that we’re referencing here. The link is in the chat. And, Michael, before we get your last comment here, I just got to share again this image. These are some serious robots. I’m not sure where the team got this image from, but, man, I’m not sure —

Greg White (00:36:11):

Fantasy.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:36:13):

Yeah. One with an automatic weapon right there. Is that your robot walking around with automatic weapons?

Greg White (00:36:19):

I think those are transformers, aren’t they?

Scott Luton (00:36:21):

Maybe so. Maybe so. All right. Michael, your final word here around robots and limitations, advantages, you name it. Your final word before we move on.

Michael Pytel (00:36:32):

I think a lot of your listeners are coming from that third party logistics community. And what makes third party logistics so special is their agility. For this year and next year, they’re receiving wiring harnesses and distributing that to an automotive plant. The next year, they’re going to be doing toys. And the year after that, they’re going to be doing something else. And so, the changing product size, product mentions for a third party logistics provider, in my mind, isn’t a fit, because that makes them less agile. Now, if it’s Pfizer who knows their product plan for the next five years and knows they’re going to have a consistent product in the same box forever, awesome use case for a cobot, robot to help out there on the manufacturing side. But I think last year, it was estimated spend for third party logistics was 250 billion and growing. And what makes those third party logistics providers so special is their agility, which comes with human beings working in the warehouse.

Scott Luton (00:37:26):

I love that. I love that. And by the way, you may know this guy, Yosh says, “Those robots look like warehousing optimization robots.” Man, that’s some heavy duty optimization. I love that, Yosh.

Greg White (00:37:40):

You can hear them go, “Work faster.”

Scott Luton (00:37:41):

Right. That’s right, Greg. All right. Before we transition, I want to go back. You know, the Girl Scout Cookies were getting lots of attention. Anthony says, “Do-si-Dos all day everyday.” I love that.

Greg White (00:37:52):

Yeah. I forgot about those. Those are like a good version of Nutter Butter.

Scott Luton (00:37:56):

Right. Right.

Greg White (00:37:57):

Dunked in milk. Those are delicious, man. Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:38:00):

Kimesha is a fellow Trefoils Shortbread all the way.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:38:05):

All the way Shortbread. Shortbread, baby

Scott Luton (00:38:09):

Thin mint, #TeamThinMint all the way. And I think this is Amanda, she says, “Give me all the Do-si-Dos. And I’m with Michael, I love Samoas.” Okay. All right. A house divided here a Supply Chain Now home.

Greg White (00:38:25):

We know who wins in that case.

Scott Luton (00:38:27):

That’s right. There’s no Thin Mints here. There’s no Thin Mints here. All right. Everybody, thanks for chiming in. We got a lot more to get to. Katherine says, “ThinMintMafia.” All right. So, let’s get to this next story, Michael. Kind of it’s a nice bookend for where we started the conversation with a lot of Greg and Kevin’s thoughts around SVB. So, here, we’re talking about SoftBank. Evidently they’re on the prowl as they’ve been chasing down Berkshire Grey. So, Michael, tell us more about this.

Michael Pytel (00:39:04):

Yeah. I think, SoftBank, great investment investment fund. We always read about them, whether it was WeWork or all the different investments that they’ve made throughout history. And they’re sort of like a leading indicator. They’re willing to make those risky bets. And so, believe it or not – I don’t know if everybody remembers – they purchased Boston Dynamics. Everybody knows the creepy dog that walks around. And then, now, Boston Dynamics has the stretch robot that can reach into trucks and unload. They purchased Boston Dynamics, then sold Boston Dynamics to Hyundai, which I think was a good move. But, anyways, the story here is one of the largest investment funds in the world continues to invest in robots. I think it is a smart play. We will see them as cobots, like Kevin alluded.

Scott Luton (00:39:52):

All right. So, you mentioned a couple of those things that make up my nightmares, Michael. I can’t remember which pizza company started messing around with robotic delivery in the first generation of that robotic deliverer. I was not going to open the door if they were knocking, even if it was the most tastiest pepperoni, thick crust pizza. No, sir. All right. But kidding aside, let’s see here. Kevin, let’s go to you first here. Your thoughts around this development from Bloomberg, SoftBank chasing after Berkshire Grey in wanting to invest more and more in robotics.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:40:26):

Well, I think like Michael said, they are a leading indicator. That’s smart money right there. And you always got to follow that smart money. So, I think warehousing, the effects of nearshoring, the flexibility with respect to those processes, the whole need to be able to deliver a product or service to a marketplace of one that personalization, extreme personalization —

Scott Luton (00:41:08):

Yeah. Massive personalization.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:41:09):

… that we have mass personalization, all of that, really, you need robots that don’t make a mistake. Yes, you need the humans to program them but you need to get rid of all the mistakes that humans do. So, soft bots with artificial intelligence that’s been programmed by real intelligence of humans.

Scott Luton (00:41:40):

Okay. Greg, what’s old is new again. I think we’ve kind of had a very well-rounded conversation today around robotics. Your thoughts around what SoftBank is doing, Greg?

Greg White (00:41:53):

Well, I’m not as huge a fan of SoftBank and they’re investing. I think the last few years have born out the fact that they’re vulnerable as any other investor. And Adam Neumann at WeWork shows what 45 minutes and a gram of cocaine can do for you. Only joking, [inaudible]

Scott Luton (00:42:24):

Asterisks, only joking. Only joking.

Greg White (00:42:28):

But I think Berkshire Grey is a good investment because their stock has been flagging a little bit lately. And I haven’t been a huge fan of SoftBank, which is betting huge amounts of money on unproven companies, and just kind of throwing it at a hundred different investments, knowing that 90 of those will fail, and ten will stagnate, and one will be a unicorn, I think this is a much, much more reasonable and well-established company approach. And they’re going to shift their approach, just like we just talked about with Silicon Valley Bank. They have already shifted their approach. Masayoshi Son has apologized for his hubris over the last couple years a few months ago, and I think that was shortly after he disappeared for 30 days. I’m sure he was given some reeducation by the Chinese Communist Party and he saw the light, strangely.

Greg White (00:43:34):

I think it’s important to recognize that robots, in whatever form they are, they are the future. They frankly have to be the future. Now, the decline of the human population is inevitable. By 2050, the human population will be declining. And we’re also seeing the largest generation in the history of earth retiring at a regular rate of 10,000 per day. But also remember that in 2021, over 3 million extra baby boomers retired and they’re not coming back for the most part. So, we have to realize that the great resignation was a generation that was on its way out of the workforce to begin with. And a lot of what we’ve talked about here, the actual or human intelligence that informs artificial intelligence is or has, is leaving or has left the workforce. And what we need to focus on is capturing that knowledge and expertise, and how those opposable thumbs get used, and whatever else we need to know to make sure that we’re enabling the technology of tomorrow, which will be in large part robotics. We’re enabling that to solve the problems of now and into the future.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:45:00):

Yeah. Remember how long it took us to reinvent concrete after the Romans?

Scott Luton (00:45:05):

That’s right. And we’re still chasing down the recipe. We still don’t know their recipe, Kevin.

Greg White (00:45:12):

Yeah. And some countries haven’t even succeeded.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:45:15):

Right. Right.

Scott Luton (00:45:16):

So, Michael, I’m going to give you the final word. My thought here today, if folks have heard anything, it’s not that our panel here today, our conversation, is talking poorly of robotics. It’s more about the approach. Whether it’s robotics or technology or ERP or whatever, for those management teams out there that buy it and throw it over the fence – which is one of the things we talked about on With That Said – that approach is not going to win, and not nearly as often enough as it should win. But, Michael, speak to the approach, you know, it’s like with everything else in life, it’s all about the approach. Your final thought here, and we’re going to learn more about Fulfilld. Michael.

Michael Pytel (00:46:00):

Yeah. I think it’s the acknowledgement that me, as a logistics operator, whether I’m working at Procter and Gamble or I’m working at a 3PL, I need to be aware of and I need to know that it’s going to be a hybrid environment in the future. And technologies that I have today implemented in my supply chain need to be aware of both the human and non-human that are going to be interacting in the warehouse. And if I have technologies today that don’t have the ability to control robot or I have robot technologies that can’t interact with the human being, I have a problem and I need a plan for this hybrid environment in the future.

Scott Luton (00:46:37):

Yeah. Well said.

Greg White (00:46:39):

Regardless of what you say about technology, it’s inevitable. So, it doesn’t really matter what we say here. It doesn’t matter whether we’re for it – or as my great uncle would say, for it or again it.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:46:50):

It’s going to happen.

Greg White (00:46:51):

It’s going to happen. It’s inevitable. It has to happen. It literally has to happen for commerce to continue. So, I think that’s an important thing for us to recognize, not be afraid of it.

Scott Luton (00:47:01):

That’s right. Great point.

Greg White (00:47:03):

To Michael’s point and to yours, well, to all of your points, it is how you deploy it. Its how you use it. And is this where you use it. Identifying the appropriate segment to use the appropriate type of automation or robotics or digital transformation of any kind because it’s not one size fits all.

Scott Luton (00:47:25):

That’s right. Well said, Greg. Well said. A lot of t-shirt-isms in what you just shared there [inaudible]. Riaan says, “Get ready for a big shift on many levels for the human race.” Because it’s coming. As Greg says, it is inevitable. So, Michael, let’s talk about Fulfilld. So, in a small nutshell for the three people out there that don’t know yet, tell us what you and the Fulfilld team are up to.

Michael Pytel (00:47:51):

Yeah. So, we’re a software company and we’re out to create the citizen warehouse worker. If you look at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, resource turnover in the warehouse is over 40 percent on average. We have some customers that are well over a 100 percent resource turnover per year in the warehouse. We have a shortage of employees in the workforce. And so, we acknowledge that, again, being a software technology company, we need to create that citizen warehouse worker who can walk in, pick up a device, and be effective. And we do that by creating that digital twin in the warehouse and using indoor positioning functionality to navigate that worker throughout their day. That way they’re effective day one or day two, rather than having to job shadow for a couple weeks.

Scott Luton (00:48:33):

I like it. It sounds like a sound and smart approach. We’ve been fortunate to have a couple conversations with you and the team. Greg, I’ll get you to respond to what Michael just described. Because if there’s anything you’ve talked about time and time again – are we up to 4D’s or 5D’s that folks are avoiding?

Greg White (00:48:51):

Just four.

Scott Luton (00:48:51):

Just four. Okay.

Greg White (00:48:53):

Dark, dirty, dangerous, and dull. Look – and this is to the point that Kevin made earlier with RPA – the days of getting away with nine months or one year or three year implementations of technology, hopefully, will be gone soon, but they’re fading fast. And the experience of using technology in the workplace needs to be more like the experience of using the technology outside the workplace. It needs to be more like a regular consumer type solution where you can walk in, do the damn job, walk out, go to another warehouse, and do the same or different damn job with different or same technology. So, this notion of being able to pick something up, intuitively know how to use it in the workplace and get to work is absolutely critical.

Scott Luton (00:49:45):

Yeah. Well said, Greg.

Greg White (00:49:47):

That’s an important foundation of how technology will be deployed in the future. App like is the notion that I think of.

Scott Luton (00:49:55):

Yeah. Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:49:57):

So, when’s the last time you saw a user guide?

Scott Luton (00:50:02):

One that we read or just one that —

Greg White (00:50:04):

[Inaudible] users guide, Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50:07):

Well, that’s where robotics is. That’s where we’re going. In business, the robot is going to show up and you’re going to tell it, go over there and do blah, blah, blah, and it’s going to go over and do it. You’re not going to need a user’s guide. It will be an integral part of business. And just expect it and get ready for it. And understand that it’s something that’s needed for our society to move forward.

Scott Luton (00:50:40):

Yeah. And you got to partner with the pros. So, if you want to learn more about what Michael and Yosh and the team are doing at Fulfilld, check them out, fulfilld.io. Michael, if I’m not mistaken, y’all are going to be at ProMat networking, showcasing, innovating, maybe having an adult beverage or two, I don’t know. And you would invite folks to come check y’all out at ProMat, right?

Michael Pytel (00:51:03):

That’s right. That’s right. At ProMat, we’re proud to be accepted into the startup pavilion. So, we’ll be showcased with nine other startups in the startup pavilion over at ProMaT. We’re there every day working in the booth and come by. We’ll be the guys in the blue vests. You’ll see us there.

Scott Luton (00:51:19):

Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. And, folks, we’ve got some links there in the chat, including if you want to set up a cup of coffee with Michael, Yosh, and team. Y’all click the link and make it happen.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:51:29):

Are you going to have some shortbread cookies with that coffee?

Scott Luton (00:51:33):

Nice, Kevin. Nice. Right on time.

Greg White (00:51:36):

All the [inaudible] you want, Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:51:39):

Great.

Scott Luton (00:51:40):

So, Michael, what’s one thing that you’re looking forward to at ProMat?

Michael Pytel (00:51:46):

Again, I’m big into AI and digital twin, and I’m looking forward to just seeing how is AI going to be leveraged in the supply chain this year, next year, and the years after, whether that’s robots, whether that’s software, all the AMRs out there, the assistive robots that are going to be there at the show. Excited to talk to them. Excited to see Boston Dynamics again. I love their stuff. It’s super cool to look at. And excited to just meet a lot of great supply chain people. It’s a great conference. A lot of great thought leaders there.

Scott Luton (00:52:16):

Well, folks, y’all go check them out. Michael, beyond ProMat, for the handful of folks that aren’t going to be able to make ProMat, how can folks connect with you and the Fulfilld team?

Michael Pytel (00:52:25):

Yeah. Well, there’s always the website, fulfilld.io. There’s no E in Fulfilld. And then, over on LinkedIn, just look up Michael Pytel, P-Y-T-E-L. Happy to connect, share knowledge, bounce ideas off each other.

Scott Luton (00:52:37):

Awesome. Well, hey, on behalf of me and Kevin and Greg, and the whole team, thanks for joining us here today. We’ve been chatting with Michael Pytel, Chief Technology Officer with Fulfilld. Michael, we’ll see you again really soon.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:52:49):

Thanks, Michael.

Greg White (00:52:51):

Thanks, Michael.

Michael Pytel (00:52:50):

Thanks, Scott. Thank you, Greg. Thanks, Kevin.

Scott Luton (00:52:53):

All right. So, the big news here, the big news – drum roll, please – yes, Yosh says, for you, Kevin, they will have those Shortbread cookies.

Greg White (00:53:00):

You’ll be flying in from the West Coast in a couple days [inaudible] so Shortbreads are [inaudible].

Scott Luton (00:53:09):

All right. So, we’ve got a couple extra minutes. Michael is very efficient. All y’all have been very efficient with some heavy hitting topics here today. I’m going to pose Kimesha’s question to both of y’all. Greg, let’s start with you. Kimesha says, “What are your thoughts on the integrity of the data and intelligence fed into the AI engines?” We’ve talked about this before. Greg, your thoughts?

Greg White (00:53:36):

That’s important. It’s not currently universal. You introduce a lot of bias by the data that you put in, which is why – and I have to confess, I invested in companies that do this – notions like synthetic data are created to assure the neutrality, lack of bias in the data. For instance, if you train AI to see shoes by showing it only men’s shoes, it’ll only identify men’s shoes as shoes and not women’s shoes. You train it only to see White people as doctors. It won’t see anyone else as a doctor regardless of whether they’re wearing a white coat. So, you have to create a synthetic sort of environment and sort of cleanse that bias out when you’re doing that. And I think that’s something we need to pay more attention to.

Greg White (00:54:38):

I mean, ChatGPT is a great example. It can only report what it reads. I think it’s important for people to recognize that, but ChatGPT cannot innovate it. It cannot tell you anything that it can’t read. And then, it does this sort of internal argument. That’s the pure mechanism and says, “This seems to be more credible than that.” But it can be wrong and is frequently wrong on that. So, yeah, I think what we have to recognize is that we have to be careful with the data to make sure that it is, in fact, as neutral as possible. And we also have to train AI to recognize data and it’s potential biases.

Greg White (00:55:25):

So, how you teach, it’s like anything that you teach. I’ve always said this, AI is not our master and overlord. AI is our child. And if we teach our child a certain way, it will have certain biases. If you teach a child in a very neutral way, it’ll have a more neutral point of view on the world in a more open, I guess, point of view on the world. And I think that’s what we have to think about.

Scott Luton (00:55:52):

Yeah. Kevin, your thoughts to Kimesha’s Mia’s question.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:55:56):

Well, first of all, artificial intelligence is a reflection of human intelligence. So, that’s why it’s important to not transfer the biases that humans have. We don’t want to make the same mistakes that we have as we go forward. I think it’s important to understand that a synthetic environment developed specifically to train artificial intelligence is a crucial step. And just like our own society, that synthetic environment also has ability to change and improve as we move forward so that artificial intelligence can change and improve as we move forward, and hopefully improve ourselves. So, yes, it’s imperfect now, and it will always be imperfect unless we work together to improve it.

Scott Luton (00:57:02):

That’s right. Truly, I know it’s cliche, but what’s old is new again. I mean, the challenges associated with giving AI accurate well-rounded information, you know, feeding into so that you get good stuff on the other side. I mean, heck, 20 years ago, I was working on maintenance data systems for the Air Force. Garbage in is still garbage out. Nothing’s different. It’s just applied to a different part of technology. A different part of business. Different part of the innovative bleeding edge landscape. So, Kimesha, great question and thanks for joining us here today. We’ll talk a lot more about that in the shows that come.

Scott Luton (00:57:45):

Greg and Kevin, always a pleasure. I got to throw this out there. Katherine, you mentioned ChatGPT – I got to say that really slow when I say that, Greg – Katherine says, “First grad term, we had to sign an agreement that we wouldn’t use AI or ChatGPT for the grad school papers.” That’s where we are. That’s where we are with Katherine. Thank you for sharing.

Greg White (00:58:06):

I mean, let’s think about this, ChatGPT becomes really, really prominent. I think it was a Princeton student, created an AI technology that can detect that ChatGPT has written a paper, has written content. It kind of builds on itself. And I think that internal discernment, it can be filled with garbage [inaudible] people. But you can be filled with garbage and whatever is the opposite of garbage, honey, sugar come out. Because I know people who were raised by terrible, terrible people who are, in fact, themselves. Their rebellion was to become a really, really good person. So, it’s not necessarily garbage in, garbage out. But you have to have an internal discernment engine that filters all of that to say this is my source, my source is a terrible person. Therefore, the opposite of this is probably true. Let me investigate, that kind of thing.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:12):

Right. And you always have to know that you can get better. No matter where you are, you can always get better.

Greg White (00:59:17):

Endless curiosity.

Scott Luton (00:59:20):

And if we have our options, I’d rather put non-garbage in.

Greg White (00:59:27):

We don’t always do we? I mean, we really don’t.

Scott Luton (00:59:30):

Sometimes we’re limited to the day that we have available. That’s a great point.

Greg White (00:59:34):

All the time we’re limited.

Scott Luton (00:59:35):

Yeah. That’s right. All the time we are, that’s right. Okay. Greg White, Kevin L. Jackson, we got to stop here. Greg, always a pleasure. I love these Buzz conversations. We had two rock and roll guests with us here today, but, Greg, I really enjoyed it.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:50):

I think you got 9.8 pounds into that bag.

Scott Luton (00:59:53):

Oh, man. We did. It is gem full. But thank you, Greg. Thank you, Kevin. For all the folks that showed up here today, thanks so much for all the comments. We couldn’t get to all of them.

Kevin L. Jackson (01:00:03):

Thank you. Great audience.

Scott Luton (01:00:05):

Great audience. Great questions. Full conversation. A lot more to come. Big thanks to Michael Pytel and the Fulfilld team for dropping in as well. Y’all make sure you connect with them, whether it’s at ProMat or somewhere else. But whatever you do, hey, don’t just take this goodness from Greg and Kevin and Michael and ruminate on it. Man, act on it. Deeds, not words. And with that said, Scott Luton challenging you to do good, to give forward, and to be the change. We’ll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (01:00:37):

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com, and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.