Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton here with you along with my dear friend Kevin L. Jackson on supply chain. Now welcome to today’s live stream. Hey Kevin, how you doing today?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:27):

Well, to be honest, I’m not sure which one of those apply to me. Is it morning or afternoon? I’m recovering from my 22 hour flight from Manila to Philippines.

Scott Luton (00:39):

That is remarkable. So you’re going to be kind of zombie Kevin today, is that

Kevin L. Jackson (00:42):

Right? Yeah, well no, I took some drugs before the

Scott Luton (00:45):

Shot,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:46):

So I’m good. Got my caffeine.

Scott Luton (00:50):

Well, you and even pseudo zombie mode is still several light years ahead of me, so we’re still good. Still good. But folks on today’s show, it’s the buzz where every Monday at 12 in Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news developments across global supply chain, really across global business news that matters is what we like to call it. And the buzz is sponsored by our friends at Pegasus Logistics Group, a leading provider of contract logistics and warehousing solutions. You can learn more about what our friend Kevin E. Taylor and the Pegasus team is up to at pegasus logistics com. Okay Kevin, we got a lot to get into here today. Big show, big big show here on the last edition of the Buzz for 2025. Let’s see. We’re going to hit a few key takeaways from Gartner Supply Chain Planning Summit in Denver. We’re going to be discussing how Walmart is really moving ahead with its drone delivery program. We’re going to pose the question, will humans truly embrace humanoids? And despite early on predictions of big dropoff, global trade has increased year over year here in 2025. All that and much, much more. And even better yet, Kevin, in about 12 minutes or so, we got a great, great guest here today. Adrian Gonzalez, president of Ante cm. And we’re going to be talking with Adrian on a variety of topics including some of this recent research big show today. Kevin, did you each Wheaties this morning?

Kevin L. Jackson (02:09):

Yes I did. And they’re talking about humanoids in GU just last week.

Scott Luton (02:17):

Well, hey, I’m all for ’em them. I’m going to give you an example of a couple of applications out Vita, but we’ll get to that soon enough. We’ll get to that soon enough. Hey, stay tuned folks for this great edition of the Buzz Powered by our friends at Pegasus. And two things before we get going. Number one, give us your take in the comments, right? Just like, Hey, Diana is tuned in via LinkedIn. Great to see you here today. T squares with us. Bring on the supply chain tech nourishment.

Kevin L. Jackson (02:48):

Want to hear? Take.

Scott Luton (02:50):

That’s right. It’s coming. It’s coming. Td, great to have you. And secondly, if you enjoy the day, we’d love for you to share it with your friend, your network, your Aunt Edna in Iowa. You name it. They’ll be better off for you doing that. Okay,

Kevin L. Jackson (03:03):

Edna’s all snowed in right now.

Scott Luton (03:05):

Really? Well, we’ve got folks here right here. Big thanks Amanda and Tricia running production. Tricia said they had seven inches in Cincinnati. Snows everywhere, Kevin. Yes, except in Atlanta. Thankfully

(03:19):

Everything stops. Okay, so let’s do this. There’s two things I want to get to before we bring in Adrian and folks, we got some great stuff to talk to Adrian about. Let’s see here. Let’s start Kevin, if it works for you. With that said, which we dropped over the weekend. So as you may know, Kevin, a few weeks ago we were out in Denver at the Gartner Supply Chain Planning Summit and we led off with a few key takeaways from that event. And with that said, we’re going to be publishing about a dozen blog summaries of my interviews and conversations there. But in this edition here, we shared a few nuggets including this one. Kevin, listen to this one from John Wayne of Global Supply Chain, AKA Jake Barr. So Jake stressed that organizations must adopt a deliberate human machine strategy, starting small with targeted use cases and rebuilding processes around what modern technology enables successful transformation.

(04:10):

He noted as people led with teams actively shaping solutions rather than having them imposed. Jake said, staying in neutral is not an option. This is not yesterday’s supply chain. Today’s technology unlocks capabilities industry has never had before. And one last thing he had, because he has a knack for keeping it real, Kevin, like you do, Jake said out of the summit he was having a lot of conversations with folks and he saw a lot of deers in headlights. Jake saw a lot of timid, fearful leaders when it comes to some of the innovative technology and new ways we’re planning. But anyway, check out some of the key takeaways. Stay tuned for a lot more blog summaries. You can find resources, live events, and a whole bunch more in this edition of With that said, and we’re dropping a link right there in the chat so you can take a look, Kevin, react to what Jake said or anything else you saw there in with that said, my friend,

Kevin L. Jackson (05:04):

Well actually you do have to make all your business processes you have to take in both humans and machines and even that artificial intelligence kind of machine and your plans because that’s really the only way you can keep up with the change in today’s environment and also the multiple inflows of information that you need to keep up with your customers, especially when you’re looking at a dynamic supply chain.

Scott Luton (05:33):

Yeah, I like that, Kevin. Another thing I heard a couple people mention, especially with historic levels of uncertainty is how innovative, truly AI driven technology, that uncertainty becomes more of an input. I love that type of thinking, right?

Kevin L. Jackson (05:48):

Yeah. I mean everybody is using ai, it’s applicable all aspects of your life. So it’s really important for you to not shy away because it’s critical to not only your professional growth but your personal growth.

Scott Luton (06:08):

So you and Jake are both like, don’t be scared,

Kevin L. Jackson (06:10):

Don’t be

Scott Luton (06:11):

Scared. You always said Kevin, that’s like, I put that synonymous with your perspective since our very first episode forever ago. We got to lean into digital transformation, lean into new ways of doing things, but leaders, you’ve got an extra responsibility to make it more approachable for your people and do it with your people. I would argue, Kevin, to give you a last word, would you agree with that? Oh

Kevin L. Jackson (06:30):

Yeah, absolutely. Because you always have to answer that question, what’s in it for me?

Scott Luton (06:35):

That’s right

Kevin L. Jackson (06:36):

With them.

Scott Luton (06:37):

Alright, so with that said, Tricia has dropped a link to that. Check it out and stay tuned for a whole bunch more from the summit. Also, the thing we close with with that said, Kevin, is do you have your grocery shopping list ready? So folks, little context here, check out. I was writing about some of the things Kroger’s doing differently and I just had to use this image. And if you’re listening to this, it’s a really poorly spelled vegetable list.

Kevin L. Jackson (07:07):

It’s poorly spelled. I mean, it’s their reality.

Scott Luton (07:15):

Well folks check it out. You have to see what we’re referring to. You can find it. With that said, and it just illustrates for the may time why we need to lean into artificial intelligence. Humans are great at many things, but math and sometimes spelling like me may not be our strengths. Amin via LinkedIn, great to see you here today. I look forward to your perspective throughout these topics. Okay, I think there’s one more thing I want to hit before we bring in. Adrian and Kevin, you have been a part of some of the biggest advanced technology and digital transformation projects and really in history, I would argue here on Mother Earth and in the great beyond. Kevin’s not sure what picture I’m going to show here. I’m scared, Kevin. We like to regularly track how Walmart has continued to up its game in recent years. Now there are drone program as reported here by supply chain dive has

(08:10):

Really taken a really big leap forward. Walmart has launched drone delivery from six stores in metro Atlanta about a week or two ago. And in fact, they’re launching drone delivery operations in the targeted new cities of Houston, Charlotte, or Orlando and Tampa. Now, as most folks know, you don’t just buy a drone and flip a switch. These things go through all sorts of regulatory and operational clearances. In fact, we interviewed Beth Lippo, founder and CEO of Drone Express, which I think is Dexa. Now, last year on the show she told us about some of this stuff. So Kevin, your thoughts when you see what Walmart’s doing, your thoughts here?

Kevin L. Jackson (08:44):

Well, first of all, this is exploding nationwide or even globally. And when you think about the fact that, I guess in the article it talked about that Walmart could reach and offer the drone service to up to 75% the area’s population. That’s a huge percentage. And the convenience to your customers reduced cost and reduced headache for those customers. But it is a new paradigm and it reminds me of back in the pandemic days where we shifted from physically going to stores just to eat. Everyone stops now online, they get their food through DoorDash. Now this is another shift where the drone is bringing everything to you now instead of delivery guy. So this is just the next step on the ladder ladder to wear. But

Scott Luton (09:45):

Hey, fascinating. It’s fascinating. I was down there, Georgia Tech, it’s been a few months and this isn’t the latest of Grace development, but I’m down there eating chicken wings and having a beer with a dear friend, and down the street goes a drone delivery, probably delivering something from DoorDash or something else.

(10:01):

And it was navigating this intersection, right? Its proximity sensor for lack of better phrase was a little bit, it was a little bit overactive cause a car passed further down the intersection probably like 300 feet away. And I swear that drone stopped for a second. You said what? Get hit. But folks, we’re going to start see this, we’ve been predicting this forever and I love to see Walmart’s going to learn all kinds of things with this next expansion and we have to get an update on what Amazon, the big A is up to with their drone programs. But Walmart’s got the edge right now. Kevin, would you agree?

Kevin L. Jackson (10:38):

Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Luton (10:40):

Okay folks, we have got a terrific guest here on the last edition of the Buzz for 2025. What an incredible year. We are delighted to bring on Adrian Gonzalez, who’s a trusted advisor and leading industry analyst with more than 26 years of research experience in transportation management, logistics, outsourcing, and other supply chain and logistics topics. He is the founder and president of Ante, SCMA, peer-to-peer learning, networking and research community for supply chain and logistics professionals. I’m going to have to join that, Kevin. Yeah, I have to learn more stuff. Have to join it. You probably also know Adrian from Talking Logistics, an online video talk show and blog featuring thought leaders and newsmakers in the supply chain and logistics industry. He also leads Indigo a market research service that brings together a community of supply chain and logistics practitioners who share practical knowledge and advice with each other while giving back to charitable causes. Love that

Kevin L. Jackson (11:36):

Many, many hats. I tell you,

Scott Luton (11:38):

He’s yes, got a big hat rack, very busy, and you’re going to love his sense of humor. Someone welcome in Adrian Gonzalez, president of Ante scm. Hey. Hey Adrian. Hey, you doing? Hey Adrian.

Adrian Gonzalez (11:49):

Hey Scott. Hey Kevin. Great to join you guys here on this last episode. Great to wrap up the year together.

Scott Luton (11:56):

Yeah, same. I had to go through your agent and find a slot in your global tours and all, but Adrian, it’s great to have you. I admire your work and I look forward to learning from you here today and share your sense of humor with our supply chain now audience. So folks get ready on that last note, Adrian and Kevin, this is where I want to get started here. A little fun warmup question here on December 15th, it’s hard to believe December 15th, but today Adrian and Kevin, December 15th is a significant from a music history standpoint.

(12:26):

So get this, y’all know I’m a big history nerd. So Johnny Cash released Folsom Prison be balloons on this date. Back in 1955, a little before all of our time, John Lennon performed what would be his final United Kingdom concert in 1969. In 1992, Dr. Dre released his iconic album, the Chronic, which largely defined the 1990s for many, including collab with Snoop Dogg Blue’s legend BB King received a presidential Medal of Freedom in 2006 on this date. And in 2021, Bruce Springsteen where he sold out, or at least he sold his entire music catalog to Sony for reportedly 500 million

(13:08):

Hey, you want to deal a deal? Do a deal, call me anytime.

Kevin L. Jackson (13:13):

I’m only a hundred million.

Scott Luton (13:17):

I’ll tell you a couple. Alright, so Adrian and Kevin, with all that as a backdrop, I want to ask you both, Adrian, starting with you, when you think of the holiday season or the end of year season, what’s one of your favorite music memories?

Adrian Gonzalez (13:30):

Well, Kevin, first of all, I’m disappointed that you did not pick any great music milestones from the eighties because that is my, I’m a huge Depeche Mode fan, new order, new wave fan. So I was waiting for something there. But in terms of holidays, this time of the year and music, I’m first generation American. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York with my parents, my aunts and uncles. The family owned a bodega in Brooklyn. So my dad and my uncles all worked together. I grew up with my cousins. We were all almost siblings, went to school together and we did everything together. So as you can imagine, during the holidays, we all got together, lots of music, lots of eating, lots of dancing. So the music part was, yes, there was some of whatever we were listening to in the radio back in the late seventies, early eighties, but a lot of salsa and meringue and a lot of dancing going Cuban and Puerto Rican music going on.

Scott Luton (14:29):

Adrian, you very powerfully walked us through your upbringing. And I’ll tell you, if you’re like me, I wish I had a camera recording all of those wonderful moments with cousins and extended family. And man, I bet your family’s got some stories running that bodega up in New York City that is amazing in Brooklyn

Adrian Gonzalez (14:47):

In the seventies in Red Hook. Yeah, we got a lot of stories we’ll have to show. That’s a whole separate

Scott Luton (14:56):

Episode. It’s alright, we’re going to hold you to it. We’re going to bring you back. Dive into that. Kevin, same question. When you think of the holidays in the year, what music memories or memories in general come to your mind?

Kevin L. Jackson (15:06):

Well, two things sort of jumped in my mind. I’ve always loved the song Slay Belts, the Christmas Carol Slay Belts when I was really, really small, I got the opportunity to play the block at the end of Slave Bells. Man, Kevin, that’s an important part of that, the most important part of the whole song.

Adrian Gonzalez (15:38):

The song is not complete without it. It went

Kevin L. Jackson (15:40):

Out the block, right? I felt so important. It was in church. I got play the block, the sleigh belts.

Scott Luton (15:47):

Love it, love it. Well, Kevin and Adrian, I want to add one of mine to y’all’s and check out this piece of equipment here. So this right here, my grandparents on my mom’s side had this in a living room way back when I was a kid. And I’ll never forget for several years stretch there when this thing was playing. It had Christmas music, it had the Chipmunks, their Christmas album, it had Perry Como, it had a lot of the older Frank Sinatra probably, and that now Adrian and Kevin, I got this picture from eBay. That thing right there, which came out in late sixties will go for $5,000. Can you believe that? Wow. So clearly it was a special part of someone else’s memories as well.

Adrian Gonzalez (16:35):

And it probably weighs 5,000 pounds too.

Scott Luton (16:39):

That’s real wood right there. I tell you. No plywood. Okay. Lot of stuff to get into here today. Let’s see here. Adrian, I love, I mentioned some of your great work, one of the many, many moving pieces there is your weekly newsletter right above the fold, and this is from this little snip from your most recent newsletter. And what I did, Adrian, is me Kevin, kind of perused through that. And we took three stories that we want to walk through. And then we’re also going to get into some research here in the second segment. But for starters, let’s see here. Let’s talk about the USS MCA and folks, I’m not sure how long it’s going to be around. We’re going to see as reported by CBC, the White House’s leader on trade policy is suggesting that the U-S-M-C-A may not be the best approach at governing trade across North America.

(17:26):

US trade representative Jameson Greer said last week that when it comes to the future of the United States Mexico Canada agreement, which is up for renewal in 2026, that the administration is keeping all options on the table greed, the differences in US trade with the two countries as a key reason for possibly creating separate trade agreements rather than a unified approach. Now, Greer owes a to United States Congress by January 2nd indicating what the Trump administration’s intentions are, and then all three countries must decide by July 1st, 2026, whether they want to extend, renegotiate, or let the US CA expire. So Adrian, love to get your thoughts here.

Adrian Gonzalez (18:07):

Yeah, there’s never a dull moment in this industry and certainly in global trade management, especially this year. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that we’ve learned with the Trump administration is if they’re talking about something, they mean it, right? So I mean, when Trump was running for president, he was basically saying, if I get reelected, I’m going to impose tariffs. And he got reelected and he followed through on that. So I think the fact that Jameson Greer, the US trade representative is talking about, Hey, we’re going to be revisiting this. Maybe the current framework is not the right framework. Maybe we need to do separate bilateral agreements with each country. I think that is a scenario that if your U-S-M-C-A is part of your supply chain design, if it’s part of your strategy already, you should be planning for all different types of scenarios depending on how this plays out.

(19:02):

Because yes, it could either be the current agreement just gets renegotiated and looking at some of the things that the administration, again is talking about like country of origin seems to be the sticking point or one of the areas that at least from the US perspective wants to get looked at or it’s two bilateral agreements and what that might entail. I think it’s very low probability that nothing happens in the sense that we just let the U-S-M-C-A die and there’s nothing to replace it with. I think that’s a low probability, but again, you never know. So I think you should also plan for that scenario as well, right? So I think my main takeaway is that you got to keep on your radar. It’s obviously, like you said, January 2nd, by January 2nd, the administration has to share what its intentions are, what it plans to do. But again, the planning needs to start today in thinking through all those possible scenarios.

Scott Luton (19:54):

That’s right. Great points there, Kevin. Your thoughts?

Kevin L. Jackson (19:58):

Well, I’m a globalist, right? And when you talk about global commerce and our transition to e-commerce, electronic commerce, the importance of national borders actually are reduced tremendously. And I think it’s helpful from a global society point to reduce the barriers between countries, including in trade. So many may say it’s much better to be protectionist, but in history, BET has not been helpful for our country. And I think things like tariffs really increase friction when it comes to trade and commerce and in an electronic world, I think that’s something you need to avoid.

Scott Luton (20:54):

Excellent points, Kevin. And two quick points, my opinion, just my opinion, folks, every country out there wants a fair deal. So with that said, though, we’ve got, and Kevin, we’ve said this a, I’ve said this a thousand times probably we’ve got one of the most unique trading zones between Mexico, the US and Canada in the world. And rather what I would, just my opinion, I’d rather lean into that and use that to all three countries benefits and use that probably as a leverage point in other deals around the globe, right? In a good way,

Kevin L. Jackson (21:25):

Practical way, we should expand it to South America,

Scott Luton (21:29):

Right? That’s my opinion. But to Adrian’s point, we got a plan for all possibilities. And good thing is with today’s technology, we could do that a whole lot easier than even 10 years ago, five years ago. Adrian, your final point here,

Adrian Gonzalez (21:43):

Again, my main takeaway here is that everyone’s been focused on the tariff situation. Obviously we were all waiting for the Supreme Court decision on the legality of that approach. So that’s going to be one big thing that’s going to probably come down relatively soon here. But I think this is another big item here because as you both said, the regional trading block that we have here with Mexico and Canada is hugely important for all three countries. And I think that finding the right approach, trying to find a win-win win approach is the right scenario here. Yeah, absolutely. You got to plan for all contingencies. That’s the bottom line,

Scott Luton (22:23):

That’s for sure. That’s right.

(22:24):

Okay, let’s move to a little easier topic. I want to address a question that will continue to grow in relevance and importance in the years ahead. Will humans embrace humanoids curious to what trade policies that human always might come up with? Who knows, maybe we’ll lean on that down the road. But Adrian, based on this really interesting Wall Street Journal article entitled Humanoid Robots Finally Get Real Jobs, you pose several interesting questions to your Indigo supply chain research community to gain their perspectives in a couple different ways and some of the key findings, let’s see here. Adoption is low amongst the group with only one respondent actively using humanoids in their logistics operations. That probably doesn’t surprise too many folks yet 63% of the folks you polled had no interest. 26% said they’re exploring possibilities right now. That’s cool. In terms of potential applications where humanoid would be a great fit, I bet this won’t surprise anybody. 65% said picking and packing, 62% said repetitive assembly tasks and 38% said loading and unloading trucks. My vote would go to washing new cars where I spent one of my in the hot South Carolina summers. He always could definitely do that back in the day. So Adrian, if you would tell us some of your key takeaways from the question about posing your community.

Adrian Gonzalez (23:45):

Yeah, I mean, I think I’ve been hearing a lot and reading a lot about humanoids over the past couple of years. I think it was two years ago I had the chance to, actually, it was last year. I didn’t go to ProMED this year. I don’t know if it was ProMED was held this year or not. But anyway, I did see some humanoid robots last year and I walked away thinking, well, this is really not ready for prime time. I’m looking at this robot moving and grabbing a box and putting it somewhere. And all I kept thinking in my head was, gosh, I could have moved and shelved 10 boxes in the time it took that robot to do one. So I would say that I’m a little bit skeptical about mainly whether it’s the right form factor for a lot of these applications. And like you said, so that’s kind of sparked doing some research with our in dago supply chain research community.

(24:34):

I think that the findings weren’t that surprising, but we saw one of the items we highlighted in the Talking Logistics newsletter this week was MercadoLibre and Agility Robotics that does humanoid robots had an announcement last week in terms of MercadoLibre going to implement some humanoid robots in the application. So companies are definitely looking to explore and try to see where they might be suitable applications. I think ultimately, like everything else in technology, the market will decide, the market will determine who are the winners and losers. My current perspective is that I’m not convinced it’s the right form factor, particularly for warehousing and manufacturing applications. To me, if you’re going to do a robot, this is a great way to start with a clean slate of paper. And I think I joked in my newsletter on Friday, Hey, give a robot that doesn’t walk but hovers on the ground and has octopus arms with suction cups and is kind, be creative with it. I think trying to copy a human body in robot form I think lacks creativity. But that’s my opinion. And the way technology moves. You could probably have me a year from now, two years from now eating my words, and that’s just the way it is.

Kevin L. Jackson (25:50):

Well, I don’t think so. I think you’re absolutely right. I mean, these humanoid robots, it just shows the hubris of us humans. We think we are perfect and we’re not. Believe me.

Scott Luton (26:05):

So Kevin, you shared a couple of links in the private chat.

Kevin L. Jackson (26:09):

Yeah, that second link I think is best actually have multiple, but just recently in Wuhan, they had a humanoid robot mall in China where you were able to go and just walk through all the different humanoid robots and it makes you, maybe you’d like it, but if you’re going to have a robot, I’m with Adrian, you want to make it specialized to do exactly what it’s designed to do to improve your business line. Humans, our form factor is just too generalized to be perfect in anything. We’re not designed to be perfect. We’re designed to be the generalist. That’s what we’ve been designed to do, so we can fit everywhere.

Adrian Gonzalez (27:00):

I was just going to quickly say I was talking to someone who is very humanoid robots, and they use your point, Kevin, which I agree with, but they use your point to say that’s exactly why humanoid robots have a promising future because they’re highly flexible. You could use ’em for one application today and then tomorrow if the business changes or everything else that humanoid robot can be one day they’re picking and packing, and then the next day you can say, Hey, you know what? Now unload trucks and that same robot can do both, versus having a very specialized robot or system that only does one thing very well. So I think the verdict that’s out, we’ll see, which really goes.

Scott Luton (27:40):

Yeah, that’s right. Alright, so a couple things here. Tricia has shared a long link that Kevin shared with us about China’s first humanoid robot store, which opened in Wuhan. So check that out folks. I’m going to also add, so Adrian and Kevin, I think it is largely inevitable. How quickly will we get there to where it’s very prevalent and widespread adoption? We’ll see, but gosh, as we all know, the technology is evolving so fast, but as Adrian said, the market’s got to see value, right?

Kevin L. Jackson (28:07):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (28:07):

Now I would just add one more thing. Adrian and Kevin, I saw a video, I saw it on X. It has to be right, right? It has to be real. But this robot, and we’ve probably have all seen examples where a humanoid, a bot of sorts kind of goes sidebars, and it kind of goes off the ranch a little bit, right? And the human coworkers scrambled. So with that seared into my brain, going back to this Wall Street Journal article, there was one application that showed a robot with some sort of baton, which I’m showing right here. I would veto, I’m not sure what that humanoid is doing with that big, long steel stick. I would not be in that application. Adrian, are you signing up for this? Are you,

Adrian Gonzalez (28:50):

You know what I’m saying? You open the segment by asking the question, will humans embrace humanoid robots? I mean, that’s really almost like a sociology question. And I think I personally would be more comfortable working with a robot that looks less like me, right? That’s more, I think one that looks like me and me, it’s going to be way smarter than me and can lift 5,000 pounds because it’s mechanical. That would freak me out a little bit. So I’d rather work with robots that don’t look human at all.

Kevin L. Jackson (29:23):

Right?

Adrian Gonzalez (29:23):

I like

Scott Luton (29:25):

Adrian. I’m geared like that too. Kevin, your final word here.

Kevin L. Jackson (29:28):

Adrian’s, right?

Scott Luton (29:33):

That’s easy answer. That’s the easy answer. So Kevin, to give you a specific question, are you more apt to be willing to work with humanoids that look like us? Or are you more apt to work with non-human forms? I guess

Kevin L. Jackson (29:47):

I think I’ll probably like the non-human forms. I want a robot that compliments me, not imitates me.

Scott Luton (29:55):

Okay, fair enough.

(29:57):

I want one that makes my job easier, especially if it involves physical labor, it makes it safer. And again, I don’t want any robots to be wielding swords. Swords baton. Okay, moving right along. We’re going to take a hard right turn and we’re going to be talking about global trade volumes and how they’re projected to shake out for the year. It might surprise a few folks as reported by the Wall Street Journal. Again, good point over there by the WSJ team. Despite all the tariffs and the trade wars and the friction and everything else, global trade has largely remained resilient. United Nations now projects global goods and services, all that trade will reach $35 trillion in 2025. That’s up 7% year over year from last year. Of course, reflecting not only higher volumes, which is ideal, but higher prices. So thanks a million. Their trade war, the World Trade Organization had predicted last April, this past April, what was that seven months ago?

(30:59):

That world trade would decrease this year, which would be a bit unusual, not unheard of, but a bit unusual in modern history. It happened in 2009, thanks to the global financial crisis, and it decreased year over year again in 2020, of course, to hopefully the once in a lifetime pandemic. One last note. China’s export shifts. Well, they seem to be working as a country, is reporting a record 1 trillion trade surplus, right? So Adrian, when you think of all that we’ve been through this year, it’s a great time to do it. Surprise, not surprised your thoughts here.

Adrian Gonzalez (31:33):

Well, first I think it shows why making predictions and forecasts is a fool term in this because it’s really, there’s so many factors that it’s unpredictable. I think it was a fair prediction back in April when the tariffs came on board and they were announced, and certainly the administration was talking about tariffs of 30, 40, 50% and above. I think you fast forward to today and those types of very high tariffs never really truly materialized. There was a kind of walk back, if you will, and we’ve kind of settled that at a lower standpoint. I think you’ve seen also things like AI driving growth. One of the things you see here on the screen, one of the subtext there is that 72% of global trade goods still trade place on most favorite nation terms. So a lot of countries have bilateral agreements with one another and free trade agreements with one another, then those have remained intact, right?

(32:30):

So yes, the spotlight has been on the US and the tariffs we’ve imposed on our trading partners, and obviously as the goes historically, so does the rest of the world. But it just goes to show you, building on what Kevin said before, that overall this movement that has occurred for decades now towards free trade is pretty robust and resilience. I think the big question is, will this continue in 2026? And we could all sit here again and make predictions one way or another and we’ll likely be wrong one way or another. But that’s the question because I think that there’s still everything we talked about before, right? What’s the status of U-S-M-C-A? So depending on how that goes, that that could have an impact on 2026 China, what happens from a geopolitical standpoint that can have an impact. The state of Europe, the European Union, and their trade picture and economies, that can have an impact. So a lot of wild cards out there still

Scott Luton (33:29):

No doubt, Adrian. Good stuff there. And we we’ll all be wrong, some more than others and what we’re projecting for 2026, that’s for sure. And usually it’s me wronger than others. Kevin, your thoughts on global trade ebbs and flows?

Kevin L. Jackson (33:42):

Well, the big changes make news, but when they start rolling these changes back, it’s never on the front page. So that typically what happens, leaders want to make the front line headline news. So they say things that are outlandish to capture the public’s eye, and then when they come to their senses or others bring them to their senses and they have to change or roll back, it’s never on the front page. It’s on the bottom of page three. And this is because everything happens in stages. There’s a process, there’s no step change in the world. Everything is gradual. So in globalization I think is something that’s not going to change. It’s just been too good for the world. It’s been too good for our society.

Scott Luton (34:39):

Yeah. Two points I would add to what the great stuff you both have shared. Number one, I had a dear friend from the United Kingdom share this to me when I was in at Saex in Cape Town a year or two ago, and he said something I never heard. He goes, when the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. I thought that was an interesting analogy that I guess a lot of folks have used. This was the first time I’d ever heard it. Adrian parallels something you said earlier. And then secondly, this where I caution, and Kevin, you and I had talked about this a good bit, and throughout the year, really all those reassuring announcements that they’ve rolled out in all different ways, they got to come to fruition, right? And my concern has always been we use those announcements as proof that the overall trade policies that we’ve seen are working.

(35:23):

And I would just caution everybody until all those jobs get filled, until all those reshored operations are up and running and producing goods, it’s not worth a whole bunch yet. And we’ve endured, in my opinion, a whole bunch of friction to get announcements right now. But we shall see how it all plays out. Who knows? I could be completely not in the know. Okay, Adrian and Kevin, I want to share a quick message because Adrian, we’re going to dive into some great research. You and the team have been doing one of the many things you’ve been doing. But first, big thanks to our friends, Kevin Taylor, Kevin E. Taylor, sheriff Taylor, like to call him and the team over at Pegasus Logistics who are powering the buzz all month long in December. Hey, when your supply chain demand strength and dependability, and don’t they all do, you can trust Pegasus to get the job done.

(36:07):

Well, their contract logistics and warehousing solutions provides scale, reliability and execution, all keeping your operations ahead of the proverbial curve, whether it’s kitting, inventory management, high value storage, nationwide, distribution returns, processing those pesky returns or complex project rollouts. Pegasus delivers precision speed execution every step of the way. Kevin and the team invite you to discover how Pegasus Logistics Group can strengthen your operation and deliver opportunity for your business. You can connect with them via the link right there in the comments. Thank you for that, Tricia. She’s Johnny on the spot. I’m telling you the fastest draw in the, I’ll say the east, not the west. Keeps

Kevin L. Jackson (36:47):

On track.

Scott Luton (36:48):

That’s right. Okay. So as I’ve been mentioning, Adrian, I want to dive into some great recent research that you and the team have been producing here. The latest one, the state of digitization and freight forwarding 2025. And I’ve got a couple screenshots there from a really comprehensive piece of research. I was diving into it early this morning. So for starters, Adrian, would you give us some background on the research if you would?

Adrian Gonzalez (37:12):

Yeah, sure. I mean, this was a research project that we collaborate with Magia. If you’re not familiar, magia, they’re leading provider of supply chain logistics software for freight forwarders. And they had done a study back in 2023 around the state of digitization in the freight forwarding industry. And kind of take another look at it. Has the industry moved forward with digitization? What were the factors that were driving digitization for freight forwarders? Which areas of the business were they prioritizing? Maybe what were some of the roadblocks and obstacles in the way of digitization? So we created a survey. We reached out to 71 leading freight forwarders and logistics service providers to kind of help answer those questions. We also did some research with our INGO supply chain research community, which are leading supply chain logistics executives from manufacturing, retail, and distribution companies to get the shipper perspective, the customer’s perspective on all of this. So that was kind of the backdrop for that and really came out with a lot of interesting, some things that were very surprising, some things that weren’t, but overall, some good and interesting findings that have driven a lot of conversation this past year,

Scott Luton (38:26):

Adrian. Absolutely, and folks, you can check it out. Tricia just added the link right there in the chat. It’s easy to download. You don’t to go through 3000 fields. Adrian, I really appreciate you and the Magia team for making it really that easy. Kevin, before I ask Adrian to kind of expound on one of the key themes, digitization, Kevin, as the world’s foremost digital transformer, I bet it makes your day to hear digitization in the freight industry, huh?

Kevin L. Jackson (38:53):

It’s all about data, isn’t it? Right? Understanding that data and more importantly, determining what data is important to your business process. And I think that’s what we’re seeing in this study, the importance of data and the fact that companies are really honing in on the important aspects of data, what’s critical to their processes.

Scott Luton (39:20):

Tidal wave of information is at our fingertips, but we’ve got to pay attention to the right,

Kevin L. Jackson (39:26):

Yes,

Scott Luton (39:26):

The right bit and pieces, right? What’s relevant, what isn’t? Slightly old sixth grade, I’m picking a year sixth grade math problems when they give you 5,000 piece of information, but you only needed three to solve the problem. Well, there’s a supply chain analogy there, Adrian. One of the key themes that emerged, and I love this, Kevin, it parallels some of the things we’ve talked about for years. Shippers are no longer impressed by digital capabilities. They expect them. Adrian, expound on that.

Adrian Gonzalez (39:53):

Yeah, I mean it’s really table stakes these days. As part of the study, like I said, we surveyed the shipper community within our INGO community and 90% of them, we said, how important is technology in your evaluation process and your selection process when you’re considering working with a freight forwarding partner? And 90% of them said that it was either extremely important or very important when evaluating selecting freight forwarders. But then on the flip side, we also asked them, how satisfied are you with the current technology capabilities of your freight forwarders and three pls? And more than a third of the respondents, 38% said that they were only slightly satisfied or not satisfied at all with the technological capabilities of their freight forwarders. And none said that they were extremely satisfied. So I think the implication of the bottom line is clear. I mean, freight forwarders and logistics service providers that fail to meet the technology expectations of their shipper customers, risk losing business moving forward, while those that are up meet or exceed those expectations are positions for growth.

Scott Luton (41:06):

Yeah. Kevin, what’d you hear there from Adrian and some of those key findings that gets your attention there?

Kevin L. Jackson (41:11):

Well, the aspect of looking for answers and trying to find those answers in the data following the data, data-driven decision making has always been there as best practice across any industry. And it’s even more important when you’re talking about supply chain and freight forwarding.

Adrian Gonzalez (41:33):

Just to build on that, Kevin, real quick. We were talking about the importance or the need for companies to plan around different scenarios around what may or may not happen around U-S-M-C-A. The fact of the matter is that to make those data-driven decisions, as you said Kevin, you need the data. And where does that data reside? A lot of the time though, most of the time, particularly with global trade, with their freight forwarders, right? So they need that data, that visibility when you’re talking about the cargo owners to really make those decisions. But they don’t have the data. They need that data. They need that visibility to drive those decisions.

Scott Luton (42:04):

Adrian and Kevin, I’m stating the obvious here, but we hear real time and it’s become almost cliche, but we still have many organizations that are not operating in real time despite the technologies that enables us to do just that. And when I think of one of the most important things we can do that we’ve been after the very first time someone ever uttered the word logistics or supply chain or business for that matter, is make better decisions faster and more confidently. And where technology is today, as a lot of what you share here in the research, what it points to is we can move in real time and empower that decision making unlike never before here in the golden age of supply chain technology. And it’s an exciting time. But Adrian and Kevin to pull out what Jake Barr said earlier on the front end, we can’t be a deer in headlights.

Kevin L. Jackson (42:55):

No

Scott Luton (42:56):

Act and change is still tough even when you’re moving to an incredible solution that enables some things that we’re all talking about, but it’s a leadership test. Kevin, your final word.

Kevin L. Jackson (43:05):

I like the idea being a leadership test. That’s what a leader does, right? A leader understands what’s around the corner, and it’s the data that tells you what’s around the

Scott Luton (43:15):

Corner. Adrian, there’s so much more here, right? There’s so much more here. And folks, again, Trisha’s dropping the link where you can go check it out. We want to hear from you. Let us know. I bet Adrian would love to hear some of your own take. Whether you agree or disagree or you name it. Adrian, anything else you want to call out? This research deserves several hours. We’ll have to have you back. Anything else you want to call out and make sure you tell us how folks can connect with the research and what else is on your research horizon, Adrian?

Adrian Gonzalez (43:44):

Yeah. So a few quick things, and again, I’m just going to scratch the surface here. You can read more about it in the report, but one of the key things we found was that only 23% of the freight forwarders surveyed say that more than 75% of their overall business processes were transactions were digitized. Again, 23% said that 75% or more of their processes were digitize. So the industry still has a long way to go in terms of digitization. What we did find was there was a difference between large freight forwarders, those that were processing more than a hundred thousand tus per year versus smaller ones. So the larger ones were more digitized, I think, not surprising in the smaller ones. Again, a lot to unpack there probably can discuss that in another time. Secondly, you were talking about this Scott before real-time visibility, right? So real-time shipping tracking top the list of technological capabilities that the shippers see the most value from their freight forwarders and the three pl, but yet only 23% of freight forwarders, at least the ones that we surveyed, are using real-time freight visibility solution.

(44:53):

So you’ve got this big mismatch between what the shippers find to be most valuable and what the three pls freight forwarders are investing in or have invested in to provide. We were almost at a record here. We went, I think the entire episode without talking about ai, but I’m going to break that record now. I’m sorry. I dunno if you were trying to get through this whole episode without ai, but one of the things that we did find, because we explored that in the research, was that larger freight forwarders were much more likely to invest in AI this year than smaller ones. Overall, 18% of the respondents said that they were very likely to invest in AI this year, and 33% said that they were somewhat likely, and only 7% said that they were very unlikely. So I think that’s a positive thing. I think you see the industry kind of exploring this.

(45:45):

Again, you saw a mismatch, a different trends between large freight forwarders and smaller ones. We did some follow up research on this. There was another report that was published in the middle of the year called freight forwarding at a crossroads preparing for the road ahead where we kind took some of the results of that. The report we’re currently talking about and kind of explored some other questions a little bit more deeply with an eye towards 2026 and for large and small freight forwarders alike, the biggest concern and challenge that the organizations have about ai, what do you think it is?

Scott Luton (46:17):

Cyber cybersecurity concern. That’s a great one.

Adrian Gonzalez (46:20):

The answer was lack of internal expertise or understanding. So I think this points to the need for freight forwarders to upskill or reskill their employees and to bring in talent or upskill the employees to have the talent to understand the technology and how it can apply to their business. So again, all of that was covered in the follow-up report research report that came to that original one.

Kevin L. Jackson (46:46):

I’m not surprised that that dichotomy that you had between the large freight porters and the smaller freight porters, because in order to enable ai, you need that data. So it’s the large companies that have the data that they can implement and use and leverage that data. And it’s the smaller companies that see that as a huge challenge and a huge mountain that they can’t overcome.

Scott Luton (47:09):

Well, Kevin, I need to take just a second and look up what a dichotomy means. But the cool thing is, and true democratization fashion, the technology is there for organizations of all sizes, right?

Kevin L. Jackson (47:24):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (47:24):

Small can compete with big and mighty in incredible ways here in 2020 and now soon to be 2026. But what’s the, so what? Here’s one of them. I’d call out Adrian and Kevin because this is right here in the report. You quote, an executive says quote, we have some logistics partners who have best in class technology while others lag behind with limited visibility and delays in messaging. We’re actively working to rid ourselves of the latter folks that should be in flashing lights, right? Your team should talk about that because that’s one of the big risks of not leaning into where technology is in 2026. Really? Alright, so Kevin and Adrian, gosh, Tom has gotten away.

Kevin L. Jackson (48:06):

Yeah, the clock there.

Scott Luton (48:10):

I need to bring on an atomic clock. We may go over just a couple of minutes. Let’s see here. Diana says change management. That’s a good one. Going back to the question, Adrian was asking change management of technology projects for sure. And by the way, Raja Shaker, great to see you again via LinkedIn. Love to hear your thoughts. Adrian. How can folks, I want to make sure folks know how they can lean into this other research you produce. How can they track you down Adrian Gonzales?

Adrian Gonzalez (48:36):

Yeah, so probably LinkedIn is probably the easiest, right? So feel free to find my LinkedIn profile, connect there talking logistics, talking logistics.com. You can go there, subscribe to our newsletter. And so those are probably the two ways that most people connect with me.

Scott Luton (48:52):

Outstanding. And we’re going to make it even easier. You can connect and follow Adrian Gonzalez right there on LinkedIn, check that out. And I bet we’ll be dropping some of his other URLs that he mentioned too. But he’s pretty easy to find because he’s everywhere. I was able to find him. We’re also dropping Talking Logistics do com, right? There’s one another place you can check out some great content. So make sure you do that. Alright, Kevin, before we ask you how folks can connect with you, I’m going to take a hard turn one more time. There’s too much to talk about here

(49:21):

As we start to wrap up. An incredible year, folks, I got in real time. We were talking about just that a second ago. Our team got our hands on a snapshot of Kevin L. Jackson, his real job. There he is. Kevin, Kevin L. Jackson. He’s solving inner planetary challenges right there, Kevin Kid aside, a lot of folks may not know one of your many stops in your career. Your journey was working with NASA on the Pluto.

Kevin L. Jackson (49:47):

Yeah. New Horizon mission to Pluto. New Horizon,

Scott Luton (49:49):

That’s right, yes. But really quick, when you think about the topic of freight on the final frontier, share one recent supply chain development that’s on your radar right now.

Kevin L. Jackson (49:58):

So actually I’m doing a lot of different things that are connected and one of them is a new institute. Institute for Digital Asset Innovation was using real world asset tokenization to help provide capital to the space economy. And one of the companies we’re working with is called Space Phoenix and talk about logistics. Their tagline is Space Phoenix is the FedEx Earth orbit. So what they are doing is making it easy to use the asset of zero G to produce things like pure crystals for semiconductors or to grow corneas for eyes. So they’re going to have their first launch in 2027. So we’re working with them to provide capital not only where you can invest and get a share of their future profits, but also you can buy a token to get a ride to space.

Scott Luton (51:06):

Really?

Kevin L. Jackson (51:06):

Yes.

Scott Luton (51:07):

Alright, that’s really cool. I’m going to check out this Baltimore based innovative business space, Phoenix and Tricia as she has been on the money all buzz long. Yes, properly right there and T-Square. That’s upskilling and reskilling. That’s can be. It has been, but it will more emphasis kind of going back to what we were talking about with Adrian earlier, organizations are going to have to get even more serious and deliberate and invest in upskilling and re-skilling the workforces so that they’re in position to find success with emerging, innovative and cutting edge bleeding edge technologies for sure. Okay. I hate to leave it here. Kevin L. Jackson, where can we find you?

Kevin L. Jackson (51:46):

Yes, you can always find me on LinkedIn or on x at Kevin Jackson. Oh, right here. Oh, on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (51:55):

And Trisha’s dropping your LinkedIn right there. I feel like Twin and Kevin, man, if y’all could stick around for another hour, we’ll really solve the trade wars. We’ll solve technology challenges. Y’all are quite the one two punch. Adrian pesky humanoids. That’s right bat. I want to thank first off, really appreciate everybody being with us for the whole year. Oh my gosh, we’ve had some great conversations, great discussions, and I can’t wait to move into 2026. So most importantly, before I thank everybody, hope you all have a wonderful holiday season. Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, happy holidays, happy Kwanza. You name it. Hope you have a wonderful holiday season and a great start to the new year. I want to thank our special guest, Adrian Gonzalez, president of Ante s cm. Adrian, thanks so much for being here today. The pleasure was all mine, Scott, and great to share the stage with you as well, Kevin. Yes,

Kevin L. Jackson (52:51):

Thank you.

Scott Luton (52:52):

We’re going to have you back soon and of course my esteem co-host Kevin L. Jackson when he’s not riding rockets out there in lower earth. Great to see here, Kevin. Yeah,

Kevin L. Jackson (53:00):

Thank you very much and happy holidays for

Scott Luton (53:03):

Everyone. No doubt. Big thanks to Amanda and Tricia behind the scenes making production happen each and every show. Big thanks to everybody for joining us again, our global audience, for being here with us like Diana and Shaker and T Squared, so many others. I know we couldn’t everybody’s comment and question here today, but two things. So again, happy holidays and happy New Year. But you know the homework you’re getting, you got to take one thing you heard here from Adrian or Kevin, one thing they had lots of them and put it into practice. Share it with your team. Do something with it. These’s not words. That’s how we’re going to keep transforming global supply chain. With all that said, on behalf of the whole team Scott Luton challenge, you do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. We’ll see next time right back here on Supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (53:46):

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