Labor shortages are a challenge worldwide, often resulting from a disconnect between job openings and the skills available in un- or underemployed populations. In South Africa, the supply chain sector has led the way in closing this gap by training new drivers and working to bring more women into the industry.

Jenny Froome is the Chief Operating Officer at SAPICS, the professional body for Supply Chain Management in South Africa. She and host Scott Luton are joined by Nicci Scott, CEO of the Commercial Transport Academy, a unique organization that does not just provide skills training, it goes further to connect people with jobs.

In this session, part of the Supply Chain Across Africa series, Nikki, Jenny, and Scott discuss:

• The successes that have been achieved by the CTA and how they are replicating that around the world

• Unique transport and delivery channel requirements that need to be met in South Africa and how the CTA is adapting to address them

• The economic and social currents running through society in South Africa and how the CTA program has adjusted to handle them

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now, the voice of global supply chain Supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from Those Making Global Business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning everybody. Scott Luton and Jenny Froome here with you on Supply Chain. Now, welcome to today’s episode, Jenny. How you doing?

Jenny Froome (00:38):

Doing really well. Thanks, Scott. It’s exciting that it’s nearly the end of the year.

Scott Luton (00:45):

Um, I think it, it’s a, it’s a mixed bag. It’s exciting, but man, we gotta take a break from doing all this fun stuff. But hey, you know, regardless, it’s great to have you back. Really have enjoyed, um, uh, the series of this episode’s part of, as we’re continuing our supply chain leadership across Africa series, in conjunction with the one and only Jenny Froom and our friends at SAPs. Now, Jenny, you don’t ever talk about yourself. Um, you know, we’re big fans. I think I am, I’m still chairman of the Atlanta Jenny Frum fan club. I believe, uh, I’m up for reelection, I think in the new year. But, you know, you serve as COO of SAPs, which has been doing wonderful work from a professional stand, uh, professional development and networking standpoint for quite some time. Folks, you can learn more@sapssapics.org. All right, so Jenny, you have brought back one, um, a wonderful repeat guest. Uh, she blew our audience away, and which we’ll reference here in a minute, uh, a year and some change ago. How excited are you about this conversation we’re about to have?

Jenny Froome (01:49):

I just, I love, love, love listening to Nicci. I love getting updates on the work that, that she and her team are doing. And every conference that we’ve done since, I think we did the first episode when we first met Nikki properly, um, there’s something, there’s another nugget, there’s another little inspiring comment or, or something to take away. Um, so I’m hugely, hugely excited that Nicci’s with us today.

Scott Luton (02:14):

Wonderful. So folks, if y’all like, leaders that enjoy bucking the system, they don’t put up with any BS and they’re out to move mountains and change how work is done while creating opportunities for others, hey, you’re in luck. That’s what our conversation’s gonna really focus on a lot here today. So, with no further ado on a welcome in, Nicci Scott, c e o of the Commercial Transport Academy. Nicci, how you doing?

Nicci Scott (02:41):

I’m doing amazing. Thanks, guys. Thank you for inviting me onto the show. Again, I often listen in Scott, onto your shows, and you’ve really done some incredible work this year in the supply chain environment and really keep it engaging. So, thank you. Mm-hmm.

Scott Luton (02:55):

<affirmative>. Well, I really appreciate the high praise. Um, we have an incredible team here. We’re all dedicated to, you know, amplifying the voice of industry. And I’ll tell you, um, if, if all the shows were like this one, man, this would really be easy, <laugh>. So I’m looking forward to what we’re gonna be talking about here today. Um, so Jenny and Nikki, before we get to the really good stuff, I want a little start with a little fun warmup question. You know, as Jenny was referencing earlier, it’s, it’s hard to believe it’s December, uh, already. And, and we’ve got just a few weeks before the end of the year, we got Christmas, another ho holidays upon us, end of year, new Year’s, all that good stuff. So, Nikki, I’ll start with you. What is one, uh, tradition that you and your family may have this time of year each year?

Nicci Scott (03:39):

So, I live in Cape Town, and it is blistering hot. I mean, we, I, I can’t, I dunno, the Fahrenheit conversion, but it’s about 33, 35 degrees Celsius. So this doesn’t lend itself to a really big meal, but it is the one and only time of the year that I would insist that all my children join me in the kitchen and prepare a meal. We’re not big on Christmas and in, in gifts giving. Um, but certainly in that preparation. And my son is into all things Asian, um, and specifically Korean. My daughter loves Italian, and, uh, the race of us trying to go towards the North Irish marriage, conventional food. So it is quite a party of food that is prepared, but I think it’s the, the fact that I can actually have them all in the kitchen working with me and really not, um, being on their phones and not disconnected to something on their computer. Um, so yeah, one of our traditions, oh,

Scott Luton (04:38):

Nicki, I love that so much. Love how you describe it. Um, and also I, I loved your comment about, yeah, that’s why I like Thanksgiving here in the States, it’s all the good food and the camaraderie that you described, and no pressure on gift buying and the gift opening, all that stuff. But here’s a thought, Nikki, um, get a YouTube or a, um, a GoPro camera, put it in a corner of your kitchen and record this year’s, you know, uh, uh, cooking masterpiece is something that I, I bet, uh, years from now, you will savor and appreciate you did that. So I’m gonna challenge you, and when you do that, you guys share the, the, uh, the cooking process with us here. How about that

Nicci Scott (05:16):

And the banter that goes on. Oh, no, that’s <inaudible>. Thank you, <laugh>.

Scott Luton (05:20):

All right. So Jim, that’s gonna be tough to top. Uh, I think you and I both are ready to go join Nikki’s Kitchen and be a part of that process. But what’s, um, Jim, what’s one of your family’s favorite traditions this time of year?

Jenny Froome (05:31):

That’s such a cool idea with the GoPro camera? We, we do, we are very, very traditional, and we, despite the fact it’s mid-summer, we do still do Turkey and all this stuff, but this year particularly, I’m excited to share our traditions with my young, with my son’s, um, girlfriend. She’s joining us in South Africa. She’s, I don’t think she’s ever been to South Africa before, and she’s from Poland. And so they have the tradition on Christmas Eve, as I, as I recall, that they have to eat co the fish cop. Interesting. So she’s looking forward to not having to eat cop <laugh> for Christmas. So we shall, we shall be very happy to share our, our traditional, uh, Christmas meal with her,

Scott Luton (06:18):

You know, um, I would not blame her. I’m not sure if I’ve ever eaten carp. I’m not a big seafood fan. If I’m eaten seafood, I gotta be kinda like at the be beach where you, you gotta sense this, like really freshly caught and prepared and whatnot. So, um, kudos. So I’m looking forward to you hearing your stories of introducing your, uh, culinary, uh, traditions, uh, with your son’s girlfriend too. Um, okay, so Nicki and Jenny, now that we’ve got that, uh, we allall painted a wonderful picture, uh, here for the weeks ahead. We gotta get down to business. And I wanna start, Nicki, as I mentioned on the front end, we had quite a, uh, a lively live stream when he joined us. I want to say it was June, 2021. Uh, Jenny, Jenny and both Greg White both joined me as a co-host, and, and Nikki came in there and blew our audience away.

Scott Luton (07:10):

Um, it was episode listeners, it’s episode number 6 58. So if you wanna go back and listen to that, we’re gonna touch on a couple elements, but then really we’re gonna get an update on what Nikki and her group’s been up to ever since. So, Nikki, what, what’s shown, and Jenny, I’m gonna get your take here. If you recall what really came across to me, and, and I took a quick kind of pseudo listen this morning, bold, confident young person nicknamed the Ice Queen, you know, didn’t take the status quo, right? Uh, always asked the question why, uh, sold her first company at 19. So it wasn’t just all of that for the sake of being a rebel. It was all of that with purpose, and, and it really had business minded. And then, um, so fast forward, you started CTA largely as you said, quote, due to the absence of women in industry. And we’ll touch on that in a minute. But then, but, um, I want to get Nicki to share one of my, our favorite moments of that conversation. But before I prompt her to do that, Nicki, Jenny, anything else you recall? And, and you know, Nicki really well, anything else when, when we’re, as we’re trying to kind of profile who Nikki is, anything else you would add?

Jenny Froome (08:20):

Oh, no, she doesn’t. She won’t let anything stop her. Uh, that’s, that’s what I’ve witnessed is that where there’s a will, there’s a way. And, uh, Nikki is, is living example of that.

Scott Luton (08:32):

And, you know, we should also call out, uh, from that interview you’d mentioned Jenny, that Claire, dear Claire, uh, her last name is

Jenny Froome (08:40):

Finchem

Scott Luton (08:42):

Finchem. Yes. Dear Claire Finchem, who’s a, who’s joined us here. I think Claire connected the two of y’all, which led to be a really big introduction. Is that right?

Jenny Froome (08:51):

Yep. Claire, does Claire read about, uh, cta contacted Nikki, struck up a relationship with her, and then we, we were introduced and we sort of haven’t looked back really. SAP has, has loved, um, having c t A involved and being able to provide a platform to, along with a lot, lot of other industry associations in, in, in our world here in South Africa. There’s a, there’s a huge amount of support for the work that CTA is doing, because it really is just genuinely amazing stuff.

Scott Luton (09:22):

That’s right. Uh, alright. Right. So, and by CTA a we’re we’re referring, uh, of course, Nikki’s organization, commercial Transport Academy. All right. So Nicki, um, there was a moment, you know, there was just something highlights from that last true appearance a year and some change ago. But there was a moment where, uh, you share this anecdote, which included, uh, I’m a paraphrase here, dude. Are you for real? So tell us about that. Uh, that story, again,

Nicci Scott (09:51):

Think since the beginning of term in my career, I have been challenging these norms, as you said. And once I, uh, sort of got fully engaged into driver development and the emergence of women into the transport sector, I have overhead to overcome the most unbelievably stupid comments and, um, ideologies and I mean unconscious bias that you just, you can see it, it’s so tangible. But in one of the things that, that came through was, but if we employ women, they’re gonna fall pregnant. What are we supposed to do with our business if these women are all falling pregnant? And the first time that came up, I think the look must have been on my face. No, we’re not. And the best I could do to suffer this was dude that really actually in 20 we’re having a conversation on 2021, having a conversation about pregnancy.

Nicci Scott (10:49):

But its so true. It’s still, as of a week ago, it was the exact same conversation. I’m still having the misunderstanding and the misguided, um, information that the more, um, educated, the more skilled and the more involved a woman isn’t in, in a job or a career. The less children she wants, the less, you know, she’s just, she wants to develop and invest in herself. So it’s, it’s just a poverty often drives, um, a high, uh, uh, population. But I, I’m not, I’m still, God, I just, it kills me. And I try not repeat what you’re saying, cuz I realize how condescending, when you said it back to me, that must have come across very condescending to the matter.

Scott Luton (11:33):

Well, it, you know, we all have these eureka moments. We all have these blind spots. And I think, um, you know, I, I wonder how many, um, folks listening have that blind spot that, that folks are having those conversations as you’re describing them. I mean, it really just speaks to so much more work we still have to do. Jenny, wanna get your comments there on the anecdote that Nikki just shared?

Jenny Froome (11:55):

Well, I just, cuz I’ve, I flashback on that, um, interview as well. And it was the comments from everybody else, like you say in the cheek seats. But how many women commented that they were, had they, it brought back memories. They’d been in exactly the same position, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, for Nikki now to say, as, as long ago, as a week ago, the same thing has happened. You know, it’s just, it’s staggering.

Scott Luton (12:22):

It it is. And, and Jan, I’m, I’m glad you referenced those comments. Cause um, you know, when we, when we do a live stream, we’ll, we’ll bring those in regularly. And a couple of comments struck me. Uh, one of them in particular, Nikki and Jenny, um, and I’m gonna paraphrase this. I think Brandy back in that last room, said this. She said, it’s time to, um, to do away with the stereotype that, uh, a a strong man is a great leader and a strong woman is not a great leader. Uh, and I can’t remember the exact terminologist used on the ladder end of that, but, but generally speaking, I think that, I mean, what, what’s y’all’s take on that comment? Uh, Nikki,

Nicci Scott (13:00):

That is definitely a per percept and strong leadership, you know, skills, and we go back to the military, you know, that mindset that you needed to be a really strong character, strong convictions in order to lead people. But that same strength from a woman is seen as a threat. It’s seen as a woman that is, um, doesn’t have people skills. Um, so it’s seen as a woman who, who is not challenging norm, but more challenging. Um, sure, it’s hard to say, but she’s, she would actually, but the fact that she would lead in that way, she would be challenging the mindset of the individual. She’s, and whether they could be accepting and open enough to the way that she’s leading. And it’s, it’s very unfortunate, but it is very much still the case in corporate South Africa where, um, we struggle with strong female leaders, uh, the mavericks.

Scott Luton (14:00):

Well, and, and you know, I’ll get your comments, but I, I would venture to say that we struggle with that, uh, here in the States. And it might, it may be a global, uh, challenge. But Jenny, your thoughts.

Jenny Froome (14:09):

Yeah, I think it’s also, I think as women often we are, we are guilty of not lifting up other women. And I think that that’s something that is changing. And I think these, you know, these movements and, um, but I do think that there’s more that can be done because it goes back to that that thing about a strong female leader is seen as a threat. And I think that we’ve got to try to, I don’t, we’ve got to try to abolish that, that thought process, because I, I, I go back to, to, I think, I’m sure it was, um, I think it was Claire Bloom who was asked about how she felt about being a, a really successful and supply of female supply chain leader and one of the best in her field. And she replied by saying, I think it was Carol Patak actually, she replied by saying, um, I never set out to do be the best female anything I set out just simply to be the best. And I think, you know, that that’s something that I’m constantly reminded of.

Scott Luton (15:14):

Yeah, I love that. Um, so let’s shift gears here. Um, I, I really appreciate both of y’all, uh, sharing some of these critical leadership thoughts on the front end. Um, so Jenny, I know one of the things we wanna do here is kind of get an update, right, Jenny?

Jenny Froome (15:29):

Absolutely. Um, I can’t believe it was June, 2021 actually that we did this interview. It’s just, uh, it’s crazy how time has gone and even despite the challenges of Covid, um, the Commercial Transport Academy and the work that you’ve done, Nikki, um, has just continued to grow. And, um, it really is just every time I I switch on LinkedIn or something, there is another, another innovation, there’s another advancement, there’s another investment. And it just, um, it’s just really something that I feel we need to keep on updating people. So thanks Scott, for giving us this opportunity. So Nikki, go ahead and tell us all the exciting things that, that you, you and your team have been doing.

Nicci Scott (16:17):

So when I, um, yeah, it’s crazy. I was actually sitting at Claire’s home in that first interview. Um, and it was a lot chillier than it is here today, as you can see with my sleeves. Uh, well like thereof. But, um, <laugh>, it, you know, we were right at the start of a journey that I could never have anticipated, uh, which was the woman inspiring woman in transport activity. And at that point, the activity was around developing 495, um, female truck drivers, of which 5% would be men, uh, 300 entrepreneurs and 120 women in leadership positions as female professionals in supply chain. And I initially spent, you know, the first couple of months really setting up the foundation of the business in this new environment and trying to work within the, the, the requirements of U S A as our primary sponsor. I was very aware of the fact that the funding we received from, um, U S A I D is basically, uh, from the American people.

Nicci Scott (17:30):

So we, I, I felt that I had a responsibility to do something with that and to really do good and not just to create another skills program, because South Africa is really good at that. We have so much money thrown into skills development, but they don’t materialize into jobs. They don’t go to the next stage. So this program has been incredibly fluid. And as I have worked in each area of the program, I have added and added and added. And about a month ago, I had the ambassador, the US Ambassador to South Africa visit us in Cape Town, um, uh, ambassador Britty. What an incredible man. Uh, and totally, totally cool dude. Uh, very knowledgeable. And he stood in front of these ladies. I mean, they were, they were so nervous. And so was I actually, because I wasn’t too sure, you know, of that sort of not only, um, academic, but in terms of political connections, how they’re able to in individual would connect with us

Scott Luton (18:31):

And those Nicki, those, those types of exchanges. Um, with the diploma, you know, the diplomacy and the traditions, it’s, it makes me nervous too. It’s kinda like being at a formal dinner and trying to figure out what spoon or fork you’re supposed to be using. Right. <laugh>, I mean, I think everyone would be anxious. Uh, but it sounds like it was quite a special meeting.

Nicci Scott (18:51):

It was, and it was really last minute. I mean, the u the U Embassy in Cape Town phone me at seven o’clock the night before the ambassador was due to come and see me to say, Nikki, could you put something on, because there’s been a cancellation in the diary. And we were always on the waiting list, but we didn’t expect less than 12 hours notice to have this hierarchy and the <inaudible> beforehand to brief me on what I needed to say and how to, you know, when I step forward and put my hand out, and then how I would introduce myself to him and how I would talk to him. But the moment I introduced him to, um, my students, I had to go through his full name, including his middle name. And the fact there’s a really on the end of that, and well, like I asked you in the beginning to remind me what I said a year ago, um, I still suffered terribly with memory as a result of the, the treatment have been on with this cancer for the last couple of years.

Nicci Scott (19:51):

So it took me seconds to forget this man’s name. And I’m standing in front of him, I’m like, he’s assistant like, somebody, please just remind me what his name is. I could have written it on my hammer. And he in, and he took over the conversation. But we have had the second parliamentary speaker of Sweden come out. We’ve had the vast president of Volvo Global. We’ve had dignitaries from Washington. Many of them come see us. Um, it has been a program that has been recognized abroad as, as, as much as it has in South Africa before. The impact is just having in wo on woman in transport.

Scott Luton (20:30):

So, Nicki, let’s talk about that for a second because, uh, and general I wanna bring you in here. Uh, outcomes based, outcomes focused, outcomes based. That’s what I heard when, when earlier in your, um, answer, you didn’t set out to create another, you know, skills building program, but you wanted to give folks, uh, an opportunity and, and create jobs, right? And cha really change lives. Not to be dramatic, but that’s what, that’s really what you’re doing. Um, is that, is that element and that successful ELE element of, uh, cta, is that one of the things that’s driving so much global interest in what you’re doing?

Nicci Scott (21:06):

I think it’s a mix. Um, because number one, I mean, just in the US I think you still sort of teetering on about 7% female representation in truck driving positions, but you’s still very low in terms of your representation of female entrepreneurs and female in supply chain, um, specifically in leadership roles. Um, so likewise in South Africa, we still have the same scenario. And I think the world is looking at us because it’s not just the us. We’ve got Australia, and now more recently, Morocco has come on board saying, how can we replicate what you have done? How can we fast track the learnings that you have, um, gained through this program? So there’s definitely this curiosity factor of this is really interesting. Um, secondly, our very high unemployment rate is also driving this conversation is that, you know, your program is because we’ve chosen area the way a woman are not only marginalized, but they are also, um, they, they haven’t, they weren’t the obvious choice in terms of the, the solution to the industry, right? So we know that in currently in South Africa, we, we, we probably needing about 16,000 skilled drivers that’s coming from government. We have a lot of drivers, but we don’t have enough skilled drivers. Three years ago, the US was reporting about 55,000. So it’s very similar situation. So building on all of that, it was a case of how do we not replicate what’s happened in the first world country, um, and create this massive deficit and aging driver population.

Scott Luton (22:50):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. All right. I wanna, Jenny, uh, before we go any further, some of your thoughts here around what Nikki has shared already,

Jenny Froome (22:58):

I think that just that comment about an aging driver population is something that is really relevant in, in the reverse from a South African, um, perspective because it, Africa is a young continent, and, and to be able to develop these skills to provide the pipeline that is required is such a great vision. You know, it’s such a great vision for your profession that you are passionate about, and is to be able to, to nurture that, that young, um, community and give them the skills to be able to then get a job and then provide for their family, but to do it right at the beginning of their career. I think it’s, uh, I think it’s just the, the greatest vision. Um, and, and you know, I, I really admire the, the fact that, that you’ve put it in place, it’s not just talked about. Because a lot of these, um, conferences and events that, that we go to, everybody talks a good talk and there’s lots of great ideas, but it’s, it takes a very, uh, special individual who can actually take the talk and make it happen. You know, I always say the ideas are the easy part. It’s actually executing those ideas, and it does take a village, you know, and Nikki has been able to, to build that village and, and lots of support from lots of different areas, private sector, public sector, internationally, et cetera. So it’s, it’s that accumulation of, of individuals who have been inspired by one individual to work together to, to the common goal.

Scott Luton (24:38):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, uh, it what you some what you shared there. Not, not, uh, to take too much away from it, but one of my, one of my favorite quotes from the Andy Griffiths show growing up was, uh, Andy and, and Floyd, the barber sitting there on a bench, uh, enjoying the typical southern heat, Nikki, kind of what you partied are describing there in Cape Town, really hot southern summers. And I think Floyd says, everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it, <laugh>. And, you know, it, it is such a, it is such a, a simple observation, but to your point, Jenny, the idea, I, the ideas are the easy part, right? The conversation lip, the lip service, all that is the easy part. Nicki, you are the, you are doing and you’re driving the outcomes. So, uh, all right. So Nick, I hear we hear that us, A i d which is one of the groups that you had mentioned earlier, they’ve recently maybe made a further investment into, uh, the, your tremendous work. Uh, tell us about that and what, what is the impact that that’s gonna drive?

Nicci Scott (25:38):

So the initial investment from, uh, US A I d and as mentioned earlier with some of you noticed US aid, um, was 2 million US dollars, uh, and to develop 915, uh, uh, women in supply chain across those three sectors. And we were blown away. I mean, literally a year on our anniversary of this program, um, USAID came back and they spoke about the fact that this has been one of the most impactful programs that they have run. Uh, and the, and bearing in mind, you know, it is one of the most challenging organizations to work for, not only in terms of its reporting, which is continuous, but the due diligence that they do to make sure that everything that you have said is in place, is indeed in place. So, um, they travel continually and they meet with the beneficiaries continually as well as the stakeholders.

Nicci Scott (26:36):

And the feedback they got from that prompted them to give us a further 1 million US dollars, which starts on the 1st of January, 2023. Now that’ll take us to, um, 1,200, um, people that will be able to develop, uh, and which is totally exciting. So not only do we have an extension on the three categories, we’ve now added a fourth category, which is motorbike drivers with the whole e-commerce buzz, um, there is a massive demand for motor back drivers. It’s a area that is highly dominated by foreign nationals, um, from the African continent, not many women. Um, and I think short of one big, um, food chain, or is it, it’s a groceries. Um, all the others have a 60 minute delivery turnaround service. So we want to capitalize on that and get the youth involved, because one of my realizations that was that when we were drawing women into this program, while in some province and province in South Africa, we would find women that had a license, uh, of some sort, either a small commercial or a, um, a passenger, uh, license.

Nicci Scott (27:52):

So maybe they drove a small bus or taxi or a car of some sort. Um, most of the women from the Western Cape have never had the opportunity to get a license. It’s an absolute luxury down here in terms of the cost. And it’s not actually a requirement for women to go get a license in terms of the, the communities they come from. Um, there is some level of public transport, but it’s more around the cost. And women actually just not feeling deserving that I can justify that expense out of the family budget. So they, uh, does, has been quite a revelation for me to realize that we were not only, uh, setting them up for a, a skill and an occupation, but also to change the dynamic of their family. Because for many of them, they were the first woman in their family to have a driver’s license.

Nicci Scott (28:40):

I think we just take for granted. Definitely. So I also discovered that many of the ladies, you know, because they’ve never had a driver’s license, I wasn’t comfortable taking them into the extra heavy truck driving environment because they don’t have the observation skills, they don’t have the experience and the confidence to navigate in, uh, serious traffic situations. So we’ve kept them into sort of the eight ton environment. Um, and I thought, well, how am I going to circumvent this has been a la uh, problem that’ll come up on year on year. And the motorbike environment was, for me, a way to tackle the youth, the 18 to the 23 year old. If I can get those ladies driving a motorbike, become aware of the surroundings, and actually driving and participating in the industry, understanding warehousing, supply chain, customer service, it’s a wonderful transition straight into truck driving.

Nicci Scott (29:34):

Um, but not just that. We also, you know, Scott, I think, which was shocking to see Covid, and as we’ve worked with the entrepreneurs that we’ve been developing, covid literally wiped up about 70% of these young businesses. I don’t think the data of what we’ve been seeing of the impact has been totally true. Um, and within the cohorts of the, the groups of women that come onto the program, it’s been devastating. And many of them are sitting with resources and assets which are not generating money. Many of them have got deep debt to banks. Um, so there is a lot of work to be done in terms of the recovery that this program is not enabling these women to do.

Scott Luton (30:14):

So, um, first off, Jenny, are you, why don’t you and I volunteer to be on part of this motorbike program? Are you game <laugh>? Can you imagine?

Jenny Froome (30:24):

Not on these roads. Thank you very much,

Scott Luton (30:27):

<laugh>. Uh, alright. Kidding aside, um, you know, Nicki, your, um, the holistic aspect, uh, of your program is fast. I’ve never, Jenny, I can tell you, uh, I’ve never stopped to think for one second about the needs for motorbike drivers, and it really just speaks to this holistic vision that Nikki and her group has. Huh?

Jenny Froome (30:51):

For me, one of the very first, sort of what you don’t think about was when Nikki gave the statistic of the number of petrol stations or facilities on the roads in, in South Africa that actually have services for women drivers. And it’s, what is it’s North 0.5% or something? It is whatever it was. And that was just something, yeah,

Scott Luton (31:18):

3%

Nicci Scott (31:19):

That is only three fuel stations across the whole country

Jenny Froome (31:21):

In the, of the country. And, and wow. And that for me was just like a, we always talk about things that we take for granted, but there’s so much that goes on behind the scenes of getting stuff from A to B, which is, you know, the whole thing that we, we are all talking about keeping the world turning. Um, we don’t think about often the people who are making that happen. And, and this is really where these sorts of conversations give you those. Jesus, I never even thought about that, and we should all be thinking about these sorts of things, really.

Scott Luton (31:57):

Yeah. This so true. All right, so backing up a second, just so I, I’m clear on this, and our listeners are, and all the petro stations, as y’all say, gas stations here in us, uh, the state’s parlance, only three of these gas stations have facilities that accommodate females. Is that right?

Nicci Scott (32:17):

In terms

Jenny Froome (32:18):

Of the drivers?

Scott Luton (32:19):

Yeah. Females. Oh, that accommodate female drivers. The

Jenny Froome (32:23):

Truck stops

Scott Luton (32:23):

That, that is unbelievable. When you hear stuff like that, no wonder we’ve got this tremendous challenge. Right. Um, okay, so let’s talk, let’s shift gears a bit here. Um, PWC evidently recently reported that by 2030 South Africa’s unemployment rate is gonna be sitting at some 40%. Holy cow. That is needless to say, a dire prediction, dire predicament if that does come to fruition. So Nicki, speak to that and speak to, you know, the whole outcomes aspect of what you’re doing. How easy is it to find work for your graduates?

Nicci Scott (33:04):

Well, in terms of the fact that, uh, we have a growing road transport sector, our rail sector in South Africa has failed us. It hasn’t been maintained. So very little is actually transported by road, mean by rail. And so we’ve seen a massive increase in road transportation. We’ve also seen a boom in the South African economy in commodities as a result of the Ukraine war, where there is a commodities moving. Um, and none of this can be moved by tr uh, um, trained because there aren’t facilities that happen to be moved by truck. So there is definitely a need for more skilled drivers. The challenge we face, uh, started the conversation right the beginning is this unconscious bias that women don’t belong in this environment that I’m really struggling with. Um, we have, uh, in Johannesburg probably I think we still see with the latest numbers, we still sitting it in the region, about 70% uptake of the ladies into employment in various, um, fixed term and permanent employment.

Nicci Scott (34:07):

But in the Western Cape, we, and Case in positive intel, we are really struggling in these two provinces to get women into the industry. Uh, so a lot of work has to be done in convincing them. And a recent situation emerged where a company had a need for drivers, but then they decided that they wouldn’t take our qualified babies because they came from an area that’s known to have had or be associated with gangsters. And they also felt that because many are, uh, a residents live in shacks, you know, it’s not bricks and mortar, it’s metal and wood. Um, they didn’t wanna take people from that area either because they don’t have a fixed address. And you look at these sort of challenges and you think, well, how do we ever get people out of a situation of poverty if we can’t take these basic steps to get them into the workplace?

Nicci Scott (35:02):

So I I I worry about, um, our economy. I mean, we are only looking at a, if we are hopeful as a minute increase, um, in the new year, one point something percent that they’ve, they’ve budgeted on. But I think that there are areas in the sector, various sectors, and we’ll see growth. And what we’ve tried to do is broaden our focus and not just focus on transport, but look at the, uh, agriculture sector as well as the, um, construction and then our ports, which are so inefficient, um, and actually get more women into the ports and start working on the big cranes, the overhead cranes that load the ships and so forth. So really trying to diversify the areas that they will be, uh, working within.

Scott Luton (35:49):

Um, Jenny, um, man, there’s so much work to be done. Your thoughts,

Jenny Froome (35:55):

Nikki, how, how do you think that the private sector can actually, I know everybody, especially in South Africa, it seems everybody is looking to the private sector to solve the economic problems of the country. And it’s wrong. We shouldn’t continually be having to do this, but there is a respon not responsibility, but they have the demand, they need the resources. How can we improve that and educate to get them to understand that the resources that you are, are developing want to be in this, in this industry?

Nicci Scott (36:32):

So it’s in three area, well, let me talk to, it’ll be three areas. Ones who bring the motor bank drivers on board as well. Um, we need more entrepreneurs participating in the public and in private sector, right? We need them to be given more opportunities. So the entrepreneurs that we have been chatting to are really struggling to get opportunities to supply chain, to be able to the professionals just say, right, those are the services I offer. Can you, um, allow me to, you know, whatever the service product solution is, can we be a supplier to your organization? I believe if we can start doing that, we can also start to drive employment from the other categories of people we are developing because a lot of business, excessive amounts of business go to the same suppliers. So it’s a case of just sort of sharing that art and building up more smaller organizations, um, with regards to the drivers, whether they are a light commercial vehicle driver or a heavy commercial dr, open up the opportunity.

Nicci Scott (37:35):

Just simply invite one or two women into your business and start to do the, let them do job shadowing. Let them be mentored and let them be developed. We have access to funding to even pay those women for a year in those organizations to work and be, um, developed. But it’s a case of safety. You know, we, some of the companies have told us categorically that they don’t have driver’s rooms for women that would have to go and develop that infrastructure. Some have discussed the fact that they don’t have policies or HR policies to accommodate female truck drivers. So what happens at night, what happens with certain commod?

Scott Luton (38:12):

Nick, Nick, is this like 1982? Is this like 1972 <laugh>? You know, this is crazy, isn’t

Nicci Scott (38:19):

It? Actually, actually come in, I still have this conversation, but these are the reality that we are still struggling with. So a little bit more effort, I think that’s all. It’s baby steps, more things that need to be done to make it possible to invite women in. And then, um, just, just interview them, test them, and you will see that they’re capable. One of the big, um, groups, a listed JC group in South Africa took 15 women from us. The data that came back was that those women, um, in terms of the scoring had 72% less coachable incidences than the men of the same, um, age group and skill level. You know, coachable comes down to fuel consumption, driving abilities, and so on. Um, something else Jenny though, is that one of the other areas that we’ll be spending this new budget on is an association called Safest Stop.

Nicci Scott (39:16):

And Safest Stops is actually going to be looking at changing legislation to, and that’s a big one. I mean, I know I’m really pushing, um, to start looking at what constitutes a professional driver, because at the moment, South Africa is facing some of the most serious accidents, road carnage, death and damage to infrastructure. So can we start to categorize, uh, uh, the requirements? And I will be looking to first the sort of first all countries that have achieved a lot of this in terms of high safety standards on the roads as to what they have done to be able to create, um, these safety mechanisms. Um, whether it be driver development, but standardized and regulated, uh, processes and systems that we can implement. We will also be looking at the oil companies. What are they doing around the truck stops to push to create more infrastructure? And there’ll be quite a few of, I think a lot of corporates, um, the government on board as well. But I think that will be able to challenge a number of projects through the association, and that might be the game changer changer that we are looking for, because we will start to align that to the various legislation that we have in South Africa at the moment.

Scott Luton (40:29):

So lots of opportunities for our listeners. Uh, I mean, going back to the first part of your answer, um, you know, allowing folks to come in, um, and job shadow. It sounds like there’s funds there that, that, that, that jobs and, and compensation can be created. There’s a number of different ways that, uh, any of our listeners or organizations can, um, help join in your efforts. Nikki, um, Jenny, it’s, it is really exploring the, um, potential impact that any company can have on the change that’s gotta happen here, right, Jenny?

Jenny Froome (41:04):

And, and isn’t that the, you know, that’s the rub for so many youngsters getting into, regardless of the profession, it’s that whole experience. You don’t have the right experience. How are you gonna get the right experience if no one gives you that chance? And I think that, you know, this is where it, it can’t just be up to the entrepreneurs to take the risk. Small, large businesses have to take the risk as well. Um, and they’re actually better able perhaps to, to cope with the ramifications of something going wrong. But I think when you’ve got a situation where you’ve got an organization who’ve got skilled, developed individuals who are looking to job shadow, who are looking to experience, and they’re saying, you know, we can actually assist with stipends and payments of expenses or whatever, then to me it’s a total no-brainer.

Scott Luton (41:56):

Agreed. Um, alright, so Nikki, um, man, this is, um, uh, I really appreciate you joining us. Again, I’ll tell you, it makes you wanna leave this interview and just go do something, you know, take action. Uh, there’s so much that needs to be done, so many opportunities that need to be afforded these individuals, and I love to hear how well they’re doing after they go through the program and they get into various jobs, how they’re just knocking outta the park that is really uplifting. Um, okay, so let’s make sure Nikki, uh, we’re gonna have you back maybe next time, uh, Jenny, maybe me and you grab, um, uh, uh, a live stream or maybe even a webinar with Nikki and some of her graduates. How cool would that be? That would be sick and hear their experiences, right? Lot to work on that in the new year. Uh, but how can Nikki, in the meantime, whether folks want to connect with you, maybe have you come in and speak to what they’re doing and wherever they are in the world, if they want to help, maybe invest in what you’re doing and, and sponsor some of your work. But regardless, how can folks connect with you and cta?

Nicci Scott (42:59):

So, um, guys, I did share on one of your documents all our contact details. So, um, LinkedIn is a great one. Um, but my email address, if you could, um, send that out to make that available, I’d really appreciate that. Just in terms of feedback, what, you know, what we were really wanting to hear is not just help, but in just as, um, ideas on how organizations, um, of that the listeners might be coming from or be part of how they may have integrated more women, some, um, into the organization. Something that maybe might be of use to us that we could go back and recommend. So that would be fantastic. And, you know, to really push this, I will be speaking in Sweden in February at the leadership summit. I have over 400 vast presidents from various organizations. And it really will be again, how investing in a skills program that has the impact and how does the ability to actually put bums in seats of com with companies and get jobs, what the difference that can make compared to just in throwing NGO funding, um, into areas where there isn’t a tangible outcome.

Nicci Scott (44:08):

These women, some of our ladies have gone from unemployment to a sustainable salary within six months of the program. And, you know, it’s just, it’s an incredible outcome. So any which way that they can reach us, if you can share with them, I’d be very grateful.

Scott Luton (44:22):

Love that. Well, of course, on the episode notes you’ll find all the different ways of connecting with Nikki and, um, uh, we would suggest that you do. Right, right, Jenny?

Jenny Froome (44:31):

Oh, totally. And, and I also think it’s going back to what Nikki was talking about with the statistics and the, the, the lack of, of development really here is something that you might think is insignificant in work that you’ve done. Probably won’t be, you know, some sort of development that happened in 1972. Maybe we haven’t even caught up that far yet, <laugh>. So, so don’t think that, oh, they won’t want to hear that idea because I think that it’s, it’s those, it’s those sort of inspiring learnings from what other people have done and achieved that gives the catalyst for the next set of, of, of ideas and actions.

Scott Luton (45:14):

Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Um, well, Nikki Scott, really appreciate you joining us here today, CEO of the Commercial Transport Academy. Such a great and impactful story, um, vision and bottom line of results. Uh, so we’ll have to have you back really again, uh, really soon, Nikki,

Nicci Scott (45:32):

Thank you so much, Scott, really appreciate it. And Jenny, thank you so much for everything you do for us. I, we, we all appreciate it.

Scott Luton (45:39):

We all do. That’s right. We all do. Nikki. Uh, well, you know, Jenny, I bet you can meet movers and shakers like Nicki and, and other business leaders at the next Cix annual conference. When is that coming up and, and how can folks learn more?

Jenny Froome (45:54):

Oh, thank you. It’s the, um, 11th to the 14th of June, and it’s gonna be in Cape Town again at Century City, which is a great destination. Um, Nikki’s got a Nikki’s excited because she lives in Cape Town. Um, and so there are also a load of fantastic supply chain professionals who are going to be there to share. And it’s the, actually the 25th anniversary of me managing this event. So I’m really very old.

Scott Luton (46:26):

<laugh>, I thought you were gonna finish that a different way. You threw us for a loop, Jenny <laugh>. Um, well, congrats, uh, all the work now. I I can, I bet, I bet when you say 25 years, all the, a flood of memories and stories come to your mind. But, uh, but hey, uh, really appreciate the platform that you, uh, and your team have built for, um, uh, really purpose-driven missions like Nikki and CTA and, and how you, uh, facilitate that ability to network and learn more and spread knowledge and, and mission and, and a lot more. Um, okay, so Jenny Froom, how can folks connect with you?

Jenny Froome (47:04):

Uh, LinkedIn’s definitely the best, or the SAP PEX website, and it’s s sap i c s and it’s dot org. Uh, but LinkedIn really is the, is the easy way.

Scott Luton (47:15):

All right. Well, Jenny, uh, always a pleasure. I I really enjoy these conversations we have. Thank you for your time as well.

Jenny Froome (47:22):

No, thank, thank you always for the opportunity.

Scott Luton (47:25):

You bet. Uh, Jenny, fr the one and only Jenny fr one and only Nikki Scott, take one heck of a one-two punch here today on this episode of Supply Chain, now as part of our supply chain leadership across Africa Series. Folks, hopefully you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have, uh, gets you ready to run through the walls. All right. And break through brick walls with the mission that Nikki and Jenny both are on. Uh, but folks, it’s about deeds, not words, right? Take action. Hey, reach out to Nick or Jenny, get involved, help support the mission, and if you can’t do that, um, help support someone in your neck of the woods. But whatever you do, on behalf of our team here at Supply Chain now, Scott Luton challenging you all to do good, to give forward and to be the change, hey, be like Nikki and be like Jenny, and we’ll see you next time, right back here as a Ponche now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (48:12):

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