John Shegerian doesn’t believe in a “new normal.” He’d much rather build a “new better,” one electronic device at a time. And as co-founder and CEO of the largest fully integrated IT and electronics asset disposition provider and cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction company in the United States, he knows a thing or two about the future of the circular economy, not to mention how to make a real impact in business. Don’t miss this chance to hear from a true leader and visionary as he sits down with Scott to share his founder’s journey through multiple successful ventures, why circular economy has a role to play in cybersecurity, advice for future leaders and much more.

As a thank-you gift for listening to this episode, we are happy to offer you a FREE copy of John Shegerian’s book, The Insecurity of Everything: How Hardware Data Security is Becoming the Most Important Topic in the World. Please follow this link and fill out the details of where you would like the book sent: https://eridirect.com/insecurity-of-everything-book/

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges, and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott Luton (00:30):

Hey, good morning, everybody. Scott Luton with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s show. Today we’re continuing our Reverse Logistics series here which we conduct in partnership with our friends at the Reverse Logistics Association. And we’ve got a big show teed up with a big guest who leads, get this, the largest cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction and electronic waste recycling company in the entire United States. So, stay tuned for what promises to be an outstanding conversation. Now with that said, let’s welcome in today’s guest. He’s a co-founder, chairman, and CEO of ERI. Let’s welcome in John Shegerian. John, how you doing?

John Shegerian (01:07):

Hey, great to be here today with you, Scott, and thanks for taking the time to do this interview.

Scott Luton (01:13):

You bet. Well, hey, I’ll take every opportunity, rub elbow with the movers and the shakers across the business world. And I tell you as a serial entrepreneur, I’m looking forward to learning what about your journey there, more about ERI, which is a company on the move. And, of course, we’re going to touch on our dear friends, Tony and the team, over at RLA later in today’s episode.

Scott Luton (01:34):

So, all of that, John, all of that, to start with one of our favorite things, my favorite questions I ask our guests, and I bet you’ve got plenty of stories here. Let’s get to know John Shegerian a little bit better. So, John, where did you grow up and give us some anecdotes around your upbringing?

John Shegerian (01:49):

I grew up in Queens, New York and it was a great place to grow up. One thing that people don’t understand about Queens and specifically in little Neck, Queens, it’s actually part of Long Island. It’s part of the Five Boroughs and it’s part of what’s called New York City Proper. So, I really got to say, I grew up in New York city even though it was Queens and even though it was still Long Island. It was a great place to grow up, easy access to the city. And, I went to high school and college in Manhattan and I couldn’t have had a better opportunity to grow up and get educated both formally and informally as well.

Scott Luton (02:25):

So, do you still have a bunch of family back in the New York area?

John Shegerian (02:29):

I sure do. My mom still lives in the house that I was raised in. She’s 82 years old. She still goes to work every day. She’s a social worker. My dad passed about 15 or 16 years ago and he was a serial and very successful entrepreneur. So between the both of them, that’s how I sort of fell into becoming a social entrepreneur. People will always wonder like how did I become what I became. It’s not that hard when you really track it back.

Scott Luton (02:56):

It doesn’t sound like it. And, I love the fact that at 82, your mom still gets up every day making it happen. Sounds like she’s doing some really good work for other folks.

Scott Luton (03:05):

Let’s shift gears for just a second. I’m going to talk about sports with you in a minute. I think you’ve got some great Cowboy stories, but let’s talk about food. We love talking about food here. And if you think of one dish that was just an important part of your childhood that you would partake if you could, every week, what’s one food dish that was inseparable from your childhood?

John Shegerian (03:24):

Well, growing up in New York, what’s inseparable was pizza. New York style pizza is really the comfort food of a native New Yorker.

Scott Luton (03:35):

I’m with you. And, you know what? A native Georgian I would add in that, a native – doesn’t matter. I’ll eat all kinds of pizza and I love New York pizza. Is there one favorite restaurant you had that when you go back, you got to have it at this one place?

John Shegerian (03:48):

Yeah. In New York City, it’s John’s New York Pizza. It was originally on Bleecker Street. It still is. They’ve opened up a couple other locations around Manhattan and then out in LA where we live for many years and we’ve raised our children when they were young. It was Mulberry Street Pizza, which also was a very traditional New York pizza as well. So, those are my two favorite go-to places when I’m in LA or New York City.

Scott Luton (04:13):

Love it. You got coast to coast. You got it all covered. I love that. All right. So, let’s shift gears ‘cause I can talk about pizza all day long. I love it that much. Let’s talk about out some of your favorite sports teams. One in particular, you’ve kind of shared with me pre-show, you’re a big Dallas Cowboys fan. So, why is that and give us your favorite Dallas Cowboys moment.

John Shegerian (04:32):

My dad was a Dallas Cowboys fan. So, in 1969, when I was about six-and-a-half or seven, I became a Cowboys fan because I followed my father’s rooting, likes and dislikes. And so, I became a huge Cowboys fan back then. And, I just love the star on the helmet and things of that such. Now, a couple things, we didn’t have a lot of money when I was growing up. So, I went to go work at 10 years old sweeping floors in a dry cleaner in Queens, in what was really called Great Neck, New York, which was Queens adjacent. And, I worked for a great guy named Saul Jacobson. And so, I’d come in on Monday’s afternoons to sweep up and he made a job there for me really. He didn’t need me to come and sweep up and I’d walk in after school and it would be about 4 o’clock. Now, realize on Sundays, it was a big deal to at my grandparents’ house with my father watching football games. And, I’d walk in every Monday afternoon during the NFL season to sweep the floors. And, there would be all the New York Jets’ jerseys hanging in the back of the dry cleaning ‘cause he had the New York Jets contract. And, I would literally walk towards slowly Joe Namath’s jersey because there was sort of this glow and halo around it. And, I would ask Saul, “Can I touch it?” Because I remember watching it the day before on television wherever they were playing. And he would always say, “Go ahead, Johnny, if your hands are clean, go touch it.” And, I remember touching that jersey saying, “I can’t believe I’m touching the same jersey that Broadway Joe Namath just wore on television the day before.” And, I’ll tell you what, it’s as close to greatness as a 10-year-old could ever become by touching Joe Namath’s jersey while you swept the floors that a dry cleaner to make a couple extra bucks.

Scott Luton (06:20):

Oh, I love that. I love that. And, was that your first job at 10? Your first time [inaudible].

John Shegerian (06:24):

Yeah. That was my first job to make cash money and then that led into numerous other things. And then, at about 11 years old, I decided, I told my dad that I would want to become a jockey because he would take me to ride ponies on the weekends, just, you know, quiet pony rides and stuff. And he explained to me that I was already sort of a little bit overweight, I was sort of a chubby kid and he said, “I don’t think that’s a good dream, son.” So, then I decided I switched my dreams and I said, “Okay. Then if I can’t ride on top of the horse, I’ll ride in back of the horse,” and that’s called harness racing. And I started grooming horses at 11 and a half years old. And by the time I was 17 years old, I was 16 years old, I was the youngest harness driver in the United States [inaudible] a barn of about 40 horses. And then, when I was 17, I was the youngest driver in harness racing history to ever set a world record at Liberty Bell Racetrack in Philadelphia.

John Shegerian (07:20):

So, that was the beginnings of how to become an entrepreneur, taking care of animals that wouldn’t take care of themselves if you didn’t show up every morning, so created a lot of discipline, but also managing and putting together syndicates to buy horses at 13 and 14 years old started – you know, it started laying the seeds for what would become a lifetime of serial entrepreneurship.

Scott Luton (07:47):

So, if I can just ask you a quick follow-up question here, when you say creating syndicates, what I do know about horses and a little bit, my uncle had horses and I grew up in Aiken, South Carolina, which once was the polo capital of the world.

John Shegerian (08:00):

Yeah. That’s right.

Scott Luton (08:03):

So, horses are not cheap. So, my take from hearing you say that is you kind had to create alliances to purchase and build a stable of 40 horses of what I heard you say at 13 or 14. John, how in the world could you do that?

John Shegerian (08:18):

It just – you know, I just, I asked my father how he started his business and he basically said, “If you want something, son, you just got – you gotta just go knock on doors.” And, basically – so if I want to buy a horse for 10 or 20 or $30,000, I go to the guy who owns the barber shop, the pizzeria, the funeral home, and I’d say, “You wanna put 5000 in or 10,000?” Now, remember, back, you know, 40, 45 years ago, that’s a lot of dough for –

Scott Luton (08:44):

Yes, it is. It still is.

John Shegerian (08:46):

And so, what happened was, as you start gaining a little success and a couple of your horses start winning, you catch some people’s eyes, then people want to bring you money and things become a little bit easier. Winning begets winning like in any sport. And, it made it easier to recruit investors and also the better horses and it became real fun. And once I set the world record, then I realized you could really accomplish any dream you set your mind to, just put your head down and you go to work.

Scott Luton (09:16):

John, gosh, we’re going to have to have you back. We’re going to have to stick right here for a couple hours because – just one thing you said there, winning begets winning. That is so true. And [inaudible] areas to that is, you know, the best time to sell is when you just close something. Right? And then, the other [inaudible] area is always selling like you’ve got a million dollars in your pocket. Right? Like, you’ve got a million dollar just sitting there in your pocket.

Scott Luton (09:45):

So, we’re going to have to keep diving into your past, maybe in the future episode. But for now, I want to move forward a little bit, a little forward a little bit beyond your record, clearly your record setting horse industry moments or aspects of your career. Move forward a little bit. And before we talk about what you’re doing now with ERI, as you look back at your serial entrepreneur journey, what’s a couple of roles you had that really shaped your worldview, John?

John Shegerian (10:11):

Well, a couple of roles. One, I was a real estate developer in Los Angeles working for a great man named Ira Yellin, and I was his number two guy when what then was called, not called anymore, it’s now called the LA riots what then was called the Rodney King riots hit. And they affected our real estate tremendously because we were in downtown LA. We had the largest redevelopment in downtown LA with the Grand Central Market, the Bradbury Building, the Million Dollar Theater. And, one of the guys who ran the tortilla stand in one of our open markets. It’s called Grand Central Market. It’s the original open market in Los Angeles. It’s like Pike’s Place up in Seattle, in South Street Seaport now, in Downtown New York, in Faneuil Hall in Boston. He left and he handed me the keys and said, “I’m outta here. I don’t wanna be in the city anymore. My wife and I are moving to Mexico.”

John Shegerian (11:00):

So, we left me with this open tortilleria and I didn’t know really what to do with it. And, when you’re missing a piece of your real estate puzzle, it really makes things difficult. So, I called this guy up that I had seen on 60 minutes three or four months before, a guy named Father Greg Boyle. And, I invited him over to the Grand Central Market. And, he had started something called Proyecto Pastoral. It was called Jobs for a Future. And his mantra in the poorest parish in East LA was that nothing stops a bullet faster than a job. So, if you got these gang-related children, young kids, young teens, gang-impacted youth, and you got them jobs, instead of letting them migrate towards gangs, they would go on to a much better life.

John Shegerian (11:44):

And basically, we put these kids working in our Grand Central Market in the Tortilleria, started Homeboy Tortillas, which then evolved into Homeboy Industries. The rest is history. Thirty years later now almost it’s one of the most successful gang intervention programs in the world. It’s been mimicked many times. Father Greg Boyle is still there running it. And, that just taught me very early, very early on that you can do a lot of things to make money, but you got to choose something that you can make money and make a difference at the same time. And, that’s what my wife and I decided to do after that. Never just do something just for money. You want to make money. Of course, you want to make money. We all got bills to pay and overhead to take care. But any business that we would endeavor in after Homeboy, it also had to make a difference and an impact in either the community or in the world at large.

Scott Luton (12:42):

Man, I love that, John. I am such kindred spirits with you, right? We’re not here in this lifetime long enough. We got to make as much of an impact and help others as much as we can. I love how you baked that into all of these entrepreneurial ventures, a lot of the big-time successful ventures, as just part of your MO. I love that. What else – so, clearly – and then, also, I love the fact that you saw someone on 60 minutes and you said, “You know what? I’m gonna call this guy up. We’re gonna make something happen.” I love that, John.

John Shegerian (13:12):

Call, call them.

Scott Luton (13:13):

Yeah. The that’s – you got to create your own luck in this day in this age or any day and age. What else when you look back? And again, we’re going to talk about ERI in just a second. When you look back at all the other stuff you’ve been up to, what’s one other leadership experience or role that really shaped how you look at the world?

John Shegerian (13:32):

I want to fast forward. Before ERI, I started financialaid.com the year Google was founded. Everyone said, you’re not a dotcommer, you’re not a tech guy. This was 1998. No one was a dotcommer or a tech guy when Google was being founded. And, again, I proved the naysayers to be wrong. I became the most successful – I became the most successful – we democratized student lending when no one said we could do it. And, again, every VC threw me out of their office, me and my partner, Michael Bryant. And, we just put our head down and we learned on the job how to become tech entrepreneurs. And, it became a very, very big venture. We sold that in ‘04 and started ERI. Now during the journey of ERI, about four-and-a-half years ago, I have an annual board meeting where I honor a board member and I give them what is called a Fight On Award. Fight On was named after the mantra from USC, my wife’s USC grad, and the gentleman who was our senior member of our board in one of our real, I want to say, the heart and soul of our company, a guy named Dann Angeloff was a huge – was an SC grad and a huge SC supporter.

John Shegerian (14:50):

So, we named it that Dann Angeloff Fight On Award. So, I needed someone to speak at this awards dinner, someone special, who really best epitomized the spirit of Fight On. And, I saw a young man on television during a football game, an SC football game. His name was Jake Olson, but Jake was a little bit different than any other football player I had ever seen play on NCAA level or a pro level. Jake was blind and he trotted onto the field and the crowd erupted. And he became the first NCAA Division I football player for SC to play blind. He’s a long snapper and snapper for the kicker. And so, I called up Dann Angeloff, and I said, “Dann, I’d like to meet this young man.” So, Dann put me, got me the right connection, which happened to be his agent, which happened to be his roommate, Daniel Hennes.

John Shegerian (15:51):

And so, Daniel invited me to come down to USC to their mess hall over there and I met, after a practice one day I met Daniel and Jake. I was sitting there. I was looking at all the other kids in the lunchroom. And first of all, I felt like thinking to myself, these kids don’t know how lucky they are. Their parents got them here, one of the greatest schools in new United States, in Southern California. They got 10 fingers, two able legs, ears, and also, they could see. And, I’m sitting across from a young man who has one of the greatest attitudes and spirits towards life, but he’s blind. And I thought to myself, first of all, I was embarrassed as I was thinking about myself. I didn’t have any handicapped friends. How can I be 50 somewhat years old and go through life and not have any handicapped friends that were in my friendship circle? That was in itself somewhat shameful.

John Shegerian (16:51):

Secondarily, I asked him, what are you going to do when you get out of here? Because as we know the cheers and the crowds died down after you make your mark in life usually. And I wanted to know what was his plan. And he said he had a plan to make a speaker’s bureau online. So, I asked him to pitch me right there and then, and him and his roommate were both dreaming this up, and they pitched me and I told him, “You know, it sounds interesting but I think there’s a couple flaws in it, but I think we can make it better. And, I was in the internet world before. Let me talk to my partner and if he’s interested as well, why don’t we partner up here and work together?” And, I called my partner when I was driving back from USC. And I said, “You gotta meet these guys.” So, he did on the phone. I said, “If you love them as much as I do, let’s do something with them.” And –

Scott Luton (17:47):

Love that.

John Shegerian (17:49):

And my dream was this, 63 million people who are handicapped in the United States, how come when you and I turn on CNBC and Bloomberg, we don’t see the CEO of any tech firm or any unicorn let’s just say that are blind or missing a limb or deaf. We sort of push all of those folks and marginalize them. And whether it’s on purpose or it’s out of benign neglect, it’s just not right. So, when we say we have to be a more inclusive and diverse world, that also includes those 63 million people that’s sometimes aren’t given a fair shot so we figured let’s give Jake a fair shot and let’s make him a CEO of potentially a unicorn and if not a unicorn, a sunicorn, a tech company that’s rising fast enough, that could become a unicorn. So, we partnered with Jake and his partner Daniel. And I’ll tell you, it’s been the most magical journey of my life to see how Jake and Daniel got out of school, graduated with honors, and now have taken this venture that they call, we call Engage, and people can look it up at letsengage.com and have now created one of the most powerful all speakers bureaus online, fully automated in the world, and massively successful. They’re far ahead of anybody’s dreams, anyone’s vision. And, I’ll tell you what, Jake and Daniel have just killed it. And, it’s been just really one of the best experiences in my whole entire life, professional life and personal life.

Scott Luton (19:32):

I love it, letsengage.com. So, y’all check that out. Jake and Daniel, congrats on all the journey this far. We look forward to seeing what’s next. And going back to Jake’s story, man, you’ve got to – your Fight On award that you mentioned, you’ve got to be fighting on every day to break into the Division I ranks as any, you know, even if you’re in perfect condition and you’ve got all of your faculties and you don’t have any, you know, disabilities, what have you. Gosh, to become a long snapper, he really has overcome. So, congrats, Jake. And I love that award, the Fight On Award. We all need to have a Fight On Award within our organizations, John.

John Shegerian (20:12):

A hundred percent and Jake best epitomizes it. He comes to every Christmas party, annual, holiday event that we have when we give it out. Everyone loves him. And, he’s become a big part of ERI as we’ve become a big part of Engage as well. And, I’ll tell you what, Jake’s unique. You know, Scott, I left out this important part. Jake wasn’t born blind. He was born with a rare type of eye cancer. He lost his first eye at about two, two-and-a-half-years old. And then, he lost whole vision at 12. So, just think about that. And a little-known fact, like I said, you fall in love with the teams your dad loves. Jake got into two colleges. He got into USC, but he also got into Harvard and he went to USC because that’s all his memories were where his dad took him to games growing up that he was able to watch. And that’s why he loved the Trojans from day one. And his dream was to become a player on the Trojan football team.

Scott Luton (21:10):

Love that, let’sengage.com. Okay. So, you shared – as you shared that aspect of your journey, you shared a variety of Eureka moments. But I’m going to ask you to pick just one, especially one, you know, as times have changed dramatically over the last couple years, as we’ve all battled the pandemic. And thankfully we’re getting some good news, where hopefully the whole globe is soon is going to be beyond this terrible time.

John Shegerian (21:35):

Yes.

Scott Luton (21:37):

What’s one Eureka moment that really sticks out in your mind?

John Shegerian (21:42):

At ERI, I take it, you mean, Scott? Yeah.

Scott Luton (21:45):

ERI or in general. We’re going to talk about ERI in a minute and your folks know exactly what y’all do, but in general.

John Shegerian (21:50):

Yeah. Yeah. In general, I don’t like when people say that we’re – pandemic is winding down and we’re going to go back to a new normal. That’s almost like saying we give up and from the beginning of the pandemic, about a month or two months into it, well, I started hearing this new normal. When are we going to get over this? When are we going to go to a new normal? I started the messaging at our company and beyond any company I’m involved with and friends and family, we’re not going to a new normal; focus on going to a new better. Whatever that means, we’re going to go to a new better. Our company’s going to be better. We’re going to be better as people. We’re going to be stronger, more resilient. Focus on being a new better when we get to the other side. Don’t just give up and focus on being a new normal.

Scott Luton (22:44):

I love that, man. That is one of my favorite teacherisms I’ve heard here lately, a new better. Okay. So, now we’ve mentioned that you’re, numerous times, again, the largest cybersecurity-focused hardware destruction and electronic waste recycling company in the US. How did it all start, John?

John Shegerian (23:03):

Started with my partner, Aaron Blum, in 2002. He started it while Kevin, my other partner, and I were running Financial Aid down in San Diego. Aaron started this down in Vista, California under a different name. We became all friends because Kevin and Aaron grew up. So, we started going to a lot of sporting events together, mostly back then the San Diego Chargers were down there. So, we’d go to San Diego Chargers game. We’d hang out together. And, he would tell us how his business was going. He was doing very well in terms of volume, but he was losing money. He didn’t have the right partners. He didn’t have the right investors. And, he was also poorly situated when it comes from a logistics standpoint, which we’re going to get into. So, Kevin and I, when we sold FinancialAid.com, Aaron came to us and said, “Hey, listen, why don’t you guys join me? We partner up and take this thing to a new level?”

John Shegerian (23:54):

So, we bought out as partners. We shut down the San Diego facility. My wife, who became our fourth partner, she had the vision, “Hey, open this thing up in Fresno for logistics.” Because Fresno’s the ag center of the United States, if not the world. So, you have all these trucks going out with garlic and raisins and tomatoes and cotton, but the trucks are coming back empty. Let him come back with electronics. And so, logistically she knew what she was doing, but she came out of the food industry and she understood how things flowed much better than I did. I was an internet guy. So, we all, four of us opened this thing in Fresno, reopened it under the new brand name ERI in April ‘05. And we started just one foot in front of the other with a small building that we had recycled the building that had been left sitting there after 30 years empty, and we put one foot in front of the other and said let’s just build a great brand and give people great service.

Scott Luton (24:50):

I love that. I love that. Okay. Sounds like an eclectic mix of people, a bunch of good people and, you know, as one, as Ray Tia, a guy I used to work for, also a serial entrepreneur, once said, and you may or may not agree. You can’t have a bad deal with good people and you can’t have a good deal with bad people, as what Ray once said. Sounds like you had a bunch of good people that made up the beginning of ERI.

John Shegerian (25:18):

That goes to my own saying exactly what I always tell everyone. Picking your partners is more important than picking what you really do.

Scott Luton (25:27):

That’s an excellent point. Okay. So, let’s get to the heart of ERI I and what the company does. So, you already kind of shared a little bit about the founding and I love that as all the produce trucks left, rather than coming back empty, they came back full. So, we don’t know, not as many empty miles, which we love that. But what else? Tell us about the company today. What does the ERI do today?

John Shegerian (25:51):

Originally when we went into business, it was all about keeping our old electronics, which back then, Scott, were the fastest growing solid waste stream in the world. That was the backside, the dark side of the technological revolution. So, our goal was let’s keep this stuff out of landfills and recycle them responsibly, and also let’s keep them from being put in containers, which was a very common practice back then. It still goes on a little bit, but not as much as it did 20 years ago, and keep them from being put in containers and being dumped into either Hong Kong, other parts of China, India, or Africa. Let’s keep them above ground and recycle them responsibly. And that was our mission when we first started the journey.

Scott Luton (26:34):

Well, what – so, that clearly has evolved quite a bit as you’ve grown and now you’ve got coast-to-coast operations and I mean, you’re moving mountains. So, today –

John Shegerian (26:47):

Let’s bookend that. Let’s bookend that. So, our first month of business, April ‘05, we recycled, give or take, 10,000 pounds of electronic waste. Last month, January of 2022, in our 10 locations, and we cover every zip code in the United States, including Hawaii and Alaska, we’re the largest, and Puerto Rico, we recycled approximately 20 million pounds in a month.

Scott Luton (27:11):

Wow.

John Shegerian (27:13):

So, that’s the bookend journey. But let me explain to you, it’s really important that you and your listeners and viewers understand what responsible electronic waste recycling really is. Two things. One thing is there’s a lot of products that come in and buy contract. They can be resold again. So, we bring them in, we test them, we fix them. We retest them. We repackage them. We resell them. Very legitimate, incredible responsible form of recycling, reuse. There’s another part of our business. That’s a very large part as well that comes in under the must destroy label, must destroy because the products are supposed to go away. They’re at their end of life. They really can’t be reused or these data contained therein that could be dangerous if they got into the wrong people’s hands.

John Shegerian (27:58):

So, we take that in and we proprietarily created the world’s largest shredding machines. So, when we bring in the electronic waste, we take out the, either the flat screen panel or the glass monitor, that goes into our glass recycling part of our venture, which cuts and cleans our glass. So, what you get out of the shredder and our glass cleaning in order of volume is cut and clean glass, shredded steel, shredded plastic, shredded aluminum, copper, gold, silver, lead, and palladium, and also, the batteries go to our partner, Red Wind Materials. And then, we’re able to extract, they’re able to extract the cobalt, the lithium and the nickel and the copper out of the batteries. So, everything that I just mentioned goes to beneficial reuse. We are zero waste, zero landfill, zero emissions.

Scott Luton (28:50):

Love it. Man, 10,000 pounds to 20 million pounds per month. That is unbelievable. And folks, I imagine, so I’ve got my Handy Dandy Phone right here like we all do. I imagine some mix, electronic devices, smart phones, computers, laptops, all of it. I imagine it’s a whole mix of devices. Right?

John Shegerian (29:14):

Data centers, hard drives from cars. Tesla’s a client now, and many other large car companies are clients. It’s an absolute mix. And, just think about it, when we started our business, Scott, there was no iPhone. There was no iPad. Drones weren’t part of our vernacular. There was no nest or ring on our homes. So, the internet of things has exploded electronics. So, here’s the other bookend that I got to say to you. We were the fastest growing solid waste stream electronics back in 2002, ‘03 and ‘04. They’re now the fastest growing solid waste stream by an order of magnitude of three to five times over the second fastest growing solid waste stream, which is plastic. So, it’s a huge problem and it’s still growing.

Scott Luton (29:58):

Yes. And, you know, you’re absolutely right. And, I also love this re-economy that we’re seeing, the re – I think it’s up to $40 billion and supposed to grow to a lot more than that over the next few years. You’re giving things extra lives and there’s still a lot more use. Whatever you’re not reusing, as you talked about all those and components that go into new stuff, you’re reselling things and getting a lot of traction on a second, third and fourth live. So, I love that. As you know, I got a – over the holidays, I got my kids a, what is it? Nintendo’s, not a switch. It is the Nintendo Wii. They stopped making that, I don’t know, probably 10 years of go. [Inaudible] good used one and the kids are loving it, John. They’re loving it. Wii bowling. Wii baseball. Wii, you name it.

John Shegerian (30:51):

It just shows you time and time again, you know, you could reuse these materials and that’s what the – that’s really what’s driving the shift, Scott. We’re you generationally going from the linear economy where we would just use and throw things out in a landfill to the circular economy. And that shift is underway and it’s begun. And, it’s very exciting to be part of that generational shift.

Scott Luton (31:19):

It’s very exciting. You know, my granddad didn’t like to waste anything. Right? I wish everybody had his mentality. And in order to make that shift, we’ve got to have great companies like ERI that can act on it and help make it happen. So, let’s talk about now that we’ve understood what ERI is doing and all the massive growth, what’s next? You know, John, as well as I do the market appreciates for just a little bit what we’ve done and that market’s always asking, what’s next? What have you done for me lately? So, where’s ERI going next?

John Shegerian (31:53):

Yeah. Couple places. One, as Fortune Magazine, the lead writer on cybersecurity, a really good young guy named Robert Hackett. He wrote an article on us about four or five years ago. And, it was called Dead but Not Forgotten. And in the last sentence of this article said this, “It turns out that electronic waste is not only an environmental hazard, but a cybersecurity one as well.” And that’s really where the pucks going now, because, yes, everyone loves that we’re zero waste, zero landfill. We can help them as an organization or a company get to their net zero goals. And they love it, that we do everything the right way, responsible way, environmentally speaking. But the bigger liability runs with the data that’s contained in all of our electronics, whether you’re a homeowner and a family leader like you and me, Scott, in our own homes, or people who run big and small organizations, nonprofits, entrepreneurial ventures, publicly traded companies. All their electronics are now full of the data, not only of their personal lives, but also of their professional lives and the goodwill of their organization. That hardware has to be responsibly destroyed when it comes to its end of life. Because if it’s not, you could get all the best software on the planet to protect your organization or your home and all the electronics you use, but you’re leaving the back door open for the bad guys to bad things to you if you let them get your hardware and all the data that’s contained therein.

Scott Luton (33:25):

Agreed. And, unfortunately the bad actors keep going and they keep doing damage. Let’s go ahead and bring up – I want to bring up the book, The Insecurity of Everything. That’s an Amazon bestseller that you and the team put together there. Tell us about it.

John Shegerian (33:39):

Yeah. We wrote this has an educational tool and piece, Scott, and we’re going to offer it to all of your listeners for free. Anyone who writes to you and wants a free copy, you send us their information. We will ship this book to you because it basically covers the whole gamut of things for either your fax machine or your copy machine, things that you benignly don’t even think about that gather all the facts and all the memories that you’re doing in your home and your business life. And, it explains why they need to be destroyed when it comes to its end of life. And it explains some great scenarios of what has happened to people, organizations that haven’t taken care of their old electronics, and it gives good solutions. We’re not the only responsible recycler out there. There’s many others, not only here in the United States, but around the world. And it gives solutions. And that’s why we wrote the book.

Scott Luton (34:29):

Love it. We’re going to make sure we include a direct link in the show notes that folks can click on that, submit their information, and we’ll get that great read out to you, The Insecurity of Everything, an Amazon bestseller.

Scott Luton (34:39):

Okay. I want to shift gears here. We’re going to talk more entrepreneurial stuff with John Shegerian in a second. But, hey, Tony Sciarrotta, our dear friend, Tony Sciarrotta and the world class team over at the Reverse Logistics Association, RLA. I know that you are big contributors and members of that ecosystem. Why is that, John?

John Shegerian (35:00):

Listen. As I’ve learned both through my wife originally, through her eyes, and then through Tony’s eyes and his great RLA organization, the Reversal Logistics Association, nothing happens. There’s no circular economy unless you cover logistics. And when I say that, it’s not only that you manage your own logistics systems well but you also have to place your facilities logistically in the right area. So, what I mean by that, when we were trying to figure out, after we built our first two facilities in Fresno and in Boston, came down to building a third facility, and my wife says we’re going to build that facility in Plainfield, Indiana. I thought she was a Martian. I said what are you, why go to Plainfield, Indiana? And she had come out of 10 years of working in a food business, running a family business called National Raisin Company.

John Shegerian (35:53):

And she said,” John, all the biggest retailers, everything goes through Plainfield.” I said, “I’ve never heard of it.” She goes, “It doesn’t matter. Logistically, it’s the perfect place for us.” So, we planted a flag back there in 2007. Well, Scott, fast forward, 15 years later, we just opened up, we’ve moved four times there. We’ve now got about 400,000 square feet and two buildings underneath roof there. But here’s the funny thing. Amazon is right down the street. It’s their biggest fulfillment center in the United States. My wife was not only a little bit right, like usual she was 500% right. And, again, I learned the hard way, but at least I listened to her not only on the Fresno choice of where to open our business. She was right on that. She was right on Plainfield. And when we’ve chosen all our 10 buildings across America, she leads the charge on that. And we’ve placed them really well when it comes to how everything can flow in the United States and covering still Hawaii and Alaska. And it’s all about logistics. If you can’t bring this stuff in the right way and get it out the right way, you might as well not open your doors at all.

Scott Luton (37:04):

I agree. Supply chain logistics certainly makes it happen. Your wife’s name is?

John Shegerian (37:09):

Tammy and she’s right over my shoulder here. Whoop, the other way. I don’t know how to point here, but she’s right over there. This is hard. She’s the pretty woman over my shoulder, which keeps me in. It’s good that this whole thing. She’s been on my wall for 16 years, but now she’s on all my Zoom calls, making sure I say and do the right thing.

Scott Luton (37:29):

Love it. Maybe, hopefully Tammy’s open to consult some consulting work ‘cause it sounds like she has got some great home run business savviness and advice. So, good stuff there, Tammy.

John Shegerian (37:40):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (37:40):

All right. So, now we’ve tackled, and I appreciate you sharing those thoughts around your logistics, geographic footprint and your thoughts on RLA. Let’s talk about – let’s get back to entrepreneurship. John, you’ve got so much, so much to give in terms of all of your experience and throughout this journey. I love your give what we call here that give forward mindset. It sounds like you do. It’s not a good day unless you’ve been able to give forward to someone. As you speak to – you know, we’ve got lots of potential entrepreneurs listening to this show here at Supply Chain Now. What’s a piece or two of advice that you’d share directly with them?

John Shegerian (38:24):

A couple things. And thanks for that question. First of all, this is not my words. This is the famous, great, Army Veteran Jocko Willicks’ words, discipline equals freedom. You really want to start something, you really want to change the world, you put your head down, talk less and do more. Just get it done. And have discipline everything you do, how you treat yourself in terms of how you take care of yourself and your body and your health and wellness, how, you know, be the first person at work in the morning, be the last person to leave, lead by example. And also, there’s a lot, lot of distractions in this world, drugs, alcohol, sex, everything in moderation. Discipline equals freedom. You want to have freedom to make your own choices in life and actually be an entrepreneur and not only an entrepreneur, a successful one? It starts with discipline.

Scott Luton (39:19):

Love that. So much truth in that nugget. Okay. I don’t know where you find all the time to do everything that you’re involved with, John. But one of the cool things I’ve come across here lately and seeing how popular it has been is your podcast, Impact with John Shegerian. So, tell us why did you decide to launch a podcast and typically, what are those conversations about?

John Shegerian (39:45):

I’ll tell you why. I started it, I was in the gym working out one night and there was a local gentleman who ran the Clear Channel radio station. Great, great friend. And, he walked up. He says, “What’s next after ERI?” “Well, I don’t know what’s next, but I know I want to have a radio show.” Back then there was no podcast. It’s 2007. He says, “Well, why don’t we do this? Why don’t you come in tomorrow and talk to me?” I went over. He says, “Listen, you fill the content for half an hour.” And he goes, “I’ll sell the ads. I’ll give you a platform and we’ll get rolling.” And we did. And I had to beg people to come on the show then because it was a radio show in Fresno. I mean, we had about, you know, five listeners, three with my wife and two children, and two were probably grapevines. I mean, there wasn’t much – you know, this is Fresno, California. And, about three months into it, he called me up. He said, “Hey, can you come visit with me tomorrow?” I’m like, “Oh, boy, this is the pink slip on this deal.” “Well, we tried it,” I thought to myself. So, of course I said, “I’ll come over.” So, I went over to his office and he says, “Hey, we got a little problem.” I said, “What?” He goes, “We sold out all the advertising. We need you to do an hour a week now and not a half hour.” I’m like, “Oh, okay, great.” And then things started rolling. Clear Channel got purchased by Sirius. And then Sirius said let’s do a national syndicated deal. And then the whole, then iTunes contacted us and said, “We’d like you to put – we’d like to put you on our platform.”

John Shegerian (41:12):

When we started this thing, there was no such thing as podcasts. It’s ‘07. And then, it just grew from there and we’ve had the coolest people and most wonderful experiences. And, it just kept – it’s made me a better human being and it’s made me a better business person because everyone I have on, if they’ve written a book, I have to read the book. I don’t have anyone one and not read their book. And if they’ve done other work, I immerse myself in the other work they’ve done. So, it’s literally – had me connect with some of the neatest coolest, most impactful people you could ever imagine. And it’s a labor of love. We don’t take any advertising dollars. It’s just a mission. And, it’s nice because we get to curate it and we get to cover people that the mass media typically doesn’t cover or won’t cover because it’s not a hot thing yet.

John Shegerian (42:05):

And, it’s fun to cover them. And then, all of a sudden them to blow up. I’ll give you an example. Seth Goldman, who started Honest Tea, came on my show early a couple times. And he was a lovely, lovely guest. And finally, about 2011, ‘12, he comes back to me. He says, “Hey, listen, John, there’s a guy that I invested in. Can’t even get on – can’t get any interviews or anything. And I know you’re vegan, and I know you watch your health and your nutrition. Can you have ’em on?” I’m sure. And so, he introduced me to Ethan Brown. And Ethan came on and he did a great job. And Ethan came on a couple more times and Ethan started a little company that he was just slogging away at and grinding away called Beyond Meat. And now, Ethan’s a CEO of a 5, 6, $7-billion [inaudible]. Big time. He’s big time. So, it’s just fun to have early have these folks that the media’s ignoring ‘cause they don’t really get it yet and give them some air time, so they can just get some traction and get on to becoming the unicorns that they’re going to become eventually.

Scott Luton (43:12):

I love that example. And for our listeners that may not connect those dots, Beyond Meat and Beyond Foods are the ones behind the vegan hamburgers, I’m using air quotes, that are extremely popular at a variety of franchises. I just saw them in a documentary. I think John Chang is the chef’s name. I may have that wrong, but he was at their labs as they’re trying to make some of the poultry farming more sustainable. And so, they’re growing – and the chefs like, this is delicious stuff. They’re growing it from some cells and it’s amazing what they’re up against and I love – or it’s amazing what they’re doing. And I love the fact that part of your angle there, John, is you give the stories like that, innovators like that, thought truly folks that are fighting on and thinking outside so different than the rest of us. You’re giving them a platform to share. So, I love – I’m going to subscribe to Impact with John Shegerian today. And folks can get that. I bet they at it wherever they get a podcast from. Is that right, John?

John Shegerian (44:19):

Yeah, wherever. We’re on every platform out there and, you know, apple and Stitcher and everywhere. We’re everywhere and it’s great –

Scott Luton (44:28):

Anywhere.

John Shegerian (44:29):

Yeah. And it’s awesome, and it’s just awesome. It’s just a blessing to have that platform. And, it’s just an honor to have all these great guests. They’re the ones who make up the show and, you know, I just couldn’t – it couldn’t be more of a joy.

Scott Luton (44:42):

Agreed. Great guests, great content, great show, great ideas. So, John, I’ll tell you, if we should hook up power grids to you, I’m convinced you would provide plenty of power for cities across the country. You’ve got that energy about you. And I love that. I bet it spills right over into all these ventures and all the good stuff you’re doing. How can folks, beyond the podcast, beyond the book, beyond the business ERI and others, how can folks connect with you? How can you be that person on 60 minutes? Now that this is 60 minutes. But how can folks reach out if they’ve got a business idea or want to compare notes with you?

John Shegerian (45:23):

I’ll make it really simple, a, I’m on LinkedIn. But even more simple, my website is www.eridirect.com, eidirect.com. And if you want my direct emails, jss – like John Sam, Sam – @eridirect.com, jss@eridirect.com.

Scott Luton (45:44):

It’s just that easy. John, you’re an inspiration, and your charisma and your energy. I want to run through that wall that’s right behind me. Man, really, I admire your approach and your MO and most importantly, the impact you’re having. Right? So, I hope that we are able to reconnect again with you very soon. We’re talking with John Shegerian with ERI. Thanks so much, John.

John Shegerian (46:07):

Thank you so much, Scott. It’s been an honor and a blessing to be on your show. Thank you.

Scott Luton (46:12):

You bet. Okay. Folks, hopefully enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I’ve got about 18 pages of notes that we’re going to be putting to work soon. I love leaders like John. It’s about deeds, not words. But be sure to check out his book, The Insecurity of Everything, an Amazon bestseller. Be sure to check out the podcast, Impact with John Shegerian, and be sure to check up, look out, check out if I got that right, John, ERI doing big things, 10-million pounds to 20 million pounds per month, doing good things across industry, powering that re-economy.

Scott Luton (46:46):

Folks, be on the lookout for all our upcoming episodes focused on the returns management and reverse logistics industry. A lot of good stuff on the way. On behalf of our entire team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton here challenging you to do good, give forward. Hey, be like John. Be the change that’s needed. On that note, we’ll see next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Intro/Outro (47:08):

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now Community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.