[00:00:00] Adam Jones: When you know who you are, you know what you’re supposed to do, then it’s just a matter of sharing it with the world and showing up to where you’re supposed to be. You know, your mess becomes your message. The cracks in my armor became something I wasn’t embarrassed of ’cause they didn’t define who I was.

[00:00:15] Adam Jones: So I’m gonna go share ’em with other people because there’s someone just like me right now who is feeling like I felt a couple years ago and is seeing no way out, and they need someone to say that I can see the drift.

[00:00:29] Voiceover: Welcome to the Tango Tango podcast. Real raw and unfiltered conversations with veterans and those who support them.

[00:00:40] Voiceover: Tune in, be inspired, and walk away stronger.

[00:00:44] Lloyd Knight: Welcome to the Tango Tango Podcast, real veterans, real stories. Thank you Supply Chain Now, Scott and Amanda for letting me do this, and I have a tremendous guest today. Adam Jones. So Adam is equipping military leaders and veterans to break free from silent struggles and build resilience and high performing culture.

[00:01:07] Lloyd Knight: He’s the, and he’s the author of Weapons of Mass Destruction and founder of Kingdom Operatives. He’s a, a wonderful family man. Christ Driven Army veteran, uh, 60 pilot works in corporate America. We are gonna dig into all that, but most of all, we’re just gonna hear Adam’s story. Adam, welcome to the Tango Tango podcast

[00:01:30] Adam Jones: was up Lloyd.

[00:01:31] Adam Jones: Hey man, glad to be here. Head heads up for you super quick. It was Weapons of Mass Deception. It’d be crazy if I wrote a book called Weapons of Mass Destruction. That’d be next level, but

[00:01:42] Lloyd Knight: I I, I did totally screw that up, but you know what, this is Tango Tango. It’s unedited. Hey man. So we’re gonna leave that in.

[00:01:48] Lloyd Knight: So the, uh, yeah, so Mass Deception. So Adam is one of the few people that I know that is as busy as me. He is a, uh, got his a nose. Down and just making a, a lot of great things happen. And I gotta tell folks, first of all that Adam had, has been on my other podcast, I do The Landing Zone, which is a veteran podcast that really helped veterans find their, um, next careers and hopefully in the UPS.

[00:02:17] Lloyd Knight: And Adam had a compelling story. I don’t even remember how we we got connected, but it was, it was a really competitive, compelling story. It was a great podcast. And when, when I decided to start Tango Tango, I purposefully was like, I’m not gonna have any crossover. A, uh, guest. And my new bride, Sarah is such a big Adam Jones fan.

[00:02:38] Lloyd Knight: Uh, she put the bug in my ear and. I just thought to myself, you’re right. He’s, he’s got such a good story and that’s what Tango Tango is about. It’s such a great story and, and this, this has no constraints, Adam. We could be here for six hours, like Right. And we have no scripts, unlike the other podcasts. So I’m really very interested in the digging in your story.

[00:03:04] Lloyd Knight: And, and first of all, we’re gonna start a, uh, where’d you grow up at Adam?

[00:03:08] Adam Jones: So, grew up Nazareth, Pennsylvania, uh, which is like near north, north of North Philly area, north of Philly

[00:03:15] Lloyd Knight: was Mario Reti from Nazareth, Pennsylvania. Oh. Oh man.

[00:03:18] Adam Jones: Wow. Good for you. Mario. Ready was, uh, like a minute and a half walk away from where I grew up, so right up.

[00:03:26] Adam Jones: Oh, no

[00:03:27] Lloyd Knight: way. I’m a, I’m a huge Mario pretty fan. Yeah. So yeah,

[00:03:32] Adam Jones: so the whole very, very, the whole Andretti family’s there. That is so wild that you thought of saying that. Yes. You had Mario Andretti, Michael Andretti, uh, then there was one other, all these just giant mansions. I didn’t have a mansion. We didn’t grow up in that, but we were right next to him.

[00:03:48] Lloyd Knight: Oh, that, that is really cool. And what did you like doing growing up? Did you play football? Were you a hunter, a fisher? What’d you like doing?

[00:03:56] Adam Jones: Fir, first and foremost loved trick or treating at Mario Andretti’s with the giant king size bar. So that was really cool. So gotta start with that. Good for you, Mario.

[00:04:10] Adam Jones: I’m even a bigger fan now. That’s awesome. Yeah. And it was just this line, like hundreds of people just in a line waiting for the, you know, you to get to, you get to the door and then here’s your, you go inside and then you get the big, big king size. Yeah. Bar. It was really cool. Other than that, I was a lacrosse player.

[00:04:28] Adam Jones: I was pretty big into martial arts from like fifth grade until high school, so I ended up being like a karate instructor and stuff. Then I switched to lacrosse, so if I get it in the right order, that’s kinda how it worked. And then civil air patrol at 12 years old until graduating high school. So doing search and rescue and flying and stuff like that.

[00:04:48] Adam Jones: And it’s probably the majority

[00:04:49] Lloyd Knight: of it. Yeah. I imagine you were pretty decent a, uh, high school student and you found your way to college. Where’d you go to college at?

[00:04:57] Adam Jones: Yeah, so I only had one goal, like since I was seven or something, was wanna be a Black Hawk pilot in the Army. So I would say it was probably a little bit easy to parent me because my goal was so.

[00:05:10] Adam Jones: Honed in. My parents were like, we didn’t really have to do much, because that’s what he always wanted. So I obviously had to do a lot of things to get there, like becoming an officer and all that and going to college. I was the first kid in my family to go to college, you know, ever in my immediate chain.

[00:05:26] Adam Jones: There was no one who did that. But if that’s what it takes to be a pilot, you know, and a army officer, then okay, let’s go do that. So that was kind of that. And then college was at Penn State.

[00:05:37] Lloyd Knight: Let me dig into that a little bit. I have a a little familiar student story, but I was a terrible. I was a pretty decent kid, but it was a terrible student.

[00:05:45] Lloyd Knight: But my dad was stationed in Darmstadt, Germany, which was on the flight path, the, the R Mining air base. And I used to see the cargo planes fly over and I was like, Hey, one day I want to do that. And I ended up being a load master flying on those exact same cargo planes. Well, that were actually much, much older than I was.

[00:06:06] Lloyd Knight: And, and then I eventually learned how to be a good student and went to college. But what, why the Black Hawk? What did, was it a movie? A book? Yeah. You know what? Yeah,

[00:06:17] Adam Jones: because it’s usually something a little bit sexier, honestly. Yeah. That’s not cool to me, man. Black Hawk was the coolest thing ever. Black Hawk down is what made me.

[00:06:26] Adam Jones: Wanna fly those. And then, uh, let me think what else. I started flying at 12, you know, like fixed wing cessnas and stuff, but I never, never was interested in anything fixed wing. Uh, I thought a helicopter is so, so cool that it could just stop wherever it wants and land or, you know, to like a hoist and all that kind of stuff.

[00:06:47] Adam Jones: I, I, it can go backwards. That was the kind of stuff to me like, wow, I love the idea of a helicopter.

[00:06:54] Lloyd Knight: And you made it happen. So you went to, uh, you went to Penn State. Were you in the ROTC or anything in Penn State?

[00:07:00] Adam Jones: Yeah. ROTC. And then my major was security and risk analysis. Initially it was criminal justice, and then what ended up happening was my sophomore year I heard about this major called SRA Security Risk Analysis.

[00:07:15] Adam Jones: And I was like, that’s, that sounds pretty cool, you know? And I started learning about it on campus and I said, what is it? And they, they were like. For people who want to like usually go in the intel world and you’re mitigating, you know, terrorist attacks and you’re learning how to do that in college.

[00:07:33] Adam Jones: You’re not really doing it, but you’re learning how to do it. You’re learning how to assess situations like that. And I thought that was so exciting to me that I switched from an active duty army scholarship to an Army National Guard scholarship because I thought, wait a minute, I could do both. You know, I could become a pilot in the army.

[00:07:50] Adam Jones: And then, you know, and the guard life as an aviator, I mean, you’re still flying usually once or twice a week. It’s not one week in a month. There’s no way you would be able to do that. So I thought, okay, I could still do that and I could do the civilian world. And for me, I, that’s what ended up happening, right?

[00:08:06] Adam Jones: I graduated from Penn State and I immediately got a job working at Booz Allen Hamilton as a senior management consultant. Well, actually just a consultant originally, and then I worked my way up. But as a consultant working with the Air Force and with Under Secretary of Defense, while also being in the Army National Guard.

[00:08:24] Adam Jones: But I think you and I chat about this before, but I didn’t get aviation. That was the thing that blew my mind. I did all of that for two reasons. One was, okay, I get the best of both worlds, but the main reason was if I go Army National Guard, my time in service starts now while in college, and I could already find a unit that is going to bring on aviators and guarantee my slot.

[00:08:48] Adam Jones: That’s what I thought. And I did. I found a unit, it was in Pennsylvania. My job that I ended up getting, you know, and your full-time job really matters was in DC and it was a cool job. You know, I mean, like right away you’re working with Pentagon and stuff, you’re interfacing with some pretty high profile clients.

[00:09:10] Adam Jones: But at the same point, you’re living in DC so how are you gonna fly in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania? How, how are you gonna make that happen once or twice a week? And that’s always been a challenge for them. So it, it crushed me because basically they were like, Hey, we were moving forward with this with you, but you got a job in DC and that’s not a bad thing.

[00:09:31] Adam Jones: That’s a good thing. We’re just not gonna give you a flight slot for Pennsylvania. Guard it. You’re in the DC guard now. That’s where you need to head. Right. And I wasn’t in it yet, but they were like, you gotta go find someone there. And by the time I did it was as an mp. So it was wild man. Like to get military police after doing all of that.

[00:09:51] Adam Jones: My whole life was all about that one thing. And I didn’t get the one thing. But I’m glad it worked out this way. ’cause if I think when you and I chatted, I talked about how. In DC is where I ran into my wife again, who I met at Penn State, and then at that point we started dating and now we’ve been married for over 11 years.

[00:10:09] Adam Jones: So it’s really cool how it all worked out because once I met her, then I had the opportunity to kind of continue to advocate for like the reason I wanted to be an aviator in the first place. And then the doors opened.

[00:10:21] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. Adam and I were talking earlier before we went live here that sometimes God has a different plan for us and we don’t often understand that plan, but sometimes when we, we, we just shut up and listen.

[00:10:33] Lloyd Knight: And I think Adam, God had a different plan from you and, and then you went on to eventually become a pilot.

[00:10:40] Adam Jones: Yeah, yeah. This whole thing is a different plan than I could have imagined. That’s for sure. And, and I speak, you know, like I’ll speak to organizations like Zoom and Salesforce and mm-hmm. You know, skill bridge programs, United States, military, all on, you know, the, the topic of Weapons of Mass Deception.

[00:11:00] Adam Jones: And one thing I point out is like, look, I never in my life saw me doing this type of work. I thought I’d still be flying helicopters. Okay? So this isn’t necessarily something I pursued, but it’s a sense of responsibility to pay it forward. And I really feel that way, man. Like you and I were talking about like feeling tired and energy levels every once in a while, but like, this stuff always brings me energy.

[00:11:27] Adam Jones: It doesn’t deplete me. And I think it’s because I feel such a, a sense of responsibility of like, dude, I wish someone would’ve shared with me what almost cost me my marriage and my life. And I wish, and maybe if they would’ve shared it, maybe I wasn’t ready for it, who knows? But we gotta do that. So, I know I’m jumping ahead a little bit, but it’s part of, you know, the whole, I mean, what the plan is.

[00:11:53] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what the, uh, uh, those struggles bought character, and it also allowed you to do this bigger thing. I mean, you impacted, you know, a fair amount of people in, in the Army as an MP and then as a pilot. But you are changing the stars now for people, Adam, and, and UN unfortunately, you had to go through some really gnarly stuff in order for you to, to do that.

[00:12:21] Lloyd Knight: And they, uh, but I think it was all part of the plan. But, but before we get to that gnarly stuff, let’s talk about, you’re an mp, you got this full-time, busy job. How did you eventually. Make it the, the, your goal, you know, your goal, you, you did your goal, you fly Black Hawks. Tell me about that story.

[00:12:41] Adam Jones: Yeah, it, it, it is cool.

[00:12:42] Adam Jones: So in DC I ended up going on active orders. So for awareness, I was in for 10 years in the service and DD two 14, right, comes out and says, you know, just, I think it was seven years of active out of those 10 years. So a lot of my time was active and it wasn’t even, that was not something I could have planned.

[00:13:07] Adam Jones: It’s not a typical story. Most of my active time, it was all like government agencies and stuff. So I ended up doing a stint through the DC National Guard, uh, counter drug program working with Interpol. And when I was working there as an analyst, I started to, you know, make some really good friendships and, and relationships.

[00:13:31] Adam Jones: I always just thought, Hey, I’m just gonna do the best I can right now with what I have. I’m gonna try to make the teams I’m on better. ’cause you know, when you’re doing something like that, that’s your full-time job is like this assignment to an agency. But your guard part-time life is still, I’m a platoon leader as a military police officer.

[00:13:49] Adam Jones: And those two worlds introduced me to some leaders who were aviators. And I even made sure my company commander always knew, Hey, I really wanna be an army aviation officer. Like I wanna be a pilot. Like I started. I think when you can show someone that level of commitment, like I started flying at 12 for this and I’m not doing it anymore, and like that doesn’t feel right.

[00:14:14] Adam Jones: But eventually I got to this one major who I knew, he was like a key aviator in DC and he’s also the head of counter drug. So what a good combo, right? And. I let him know obviously, that this is what I wanted. And he said, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna make an introductions for you to the head of the state, which is called the State Aviation Officer, and you can go ahead and maybe you can chat with him real quick.

[00:14:43] Adam Jones: So I ended up getting to chat with him and we’re on the drill floor about to walk across the drill floor right from one side to the other, just like a, just walk across the gymnasium in a way for anyone who’s listening, who’s not military. And as I’m doing that, I said, Hey sir, real quick, you know, my name’s Lieutenant Jones.

[00:15:03] Adam Jones: I work with Major Hunter, by the way, major Hunter’s now the General of Maryland, which is so cool. And he basically says, Hey, lemme back up. I, I, I introduced myself and I said, I know you’re looking for new pilots for dc You have a flight board coming up. I would like to be considered for it. And at first.

[00:15:25] Adam Jones: Uh, the colonel, he says, if you wanna be a pilot, why aren’t you a pilot right now? Like, like off real strong. Interesting. Why are you an mp? If that’s what you wanted. And I said, Hey, I can explain it. And he said, okay, I’m gonna walk from this end to the drill floor to that end. And when I’m done walking, like, you’re done talking.

[00:15:44] Adam Jones: So not necessarily human-centered leadership. Yeah, I had the guy in 30 seconds. Why me? And I feel like I probably just blacked out. Dunno if you ever saw old school, like Frank the Tank or anything, but I feel like he was blacked out. Remember he interviewing, uh, at the end? Yeah. Like a, a panel or whatever.

[00:16:06] Adam Jones: That was so funny. So I felt like I just blacked out and it, I just, man, it was so much passion and commitment of like my whole life. These are the things I did to prepare for that. You know, I soloed at 16 years old, all those different things. And I’m not flying. And it’s not by my own choice, it’s by the fact that I have a job in DC and then Pennsylvania didn’t wanna send me to flight school anymore.

[00:16:32] Adam Jones: And you know, states are really specific with that stuff too. ’cause they don’t want, if Pennsylvania uses their budget and then all you do is end up leaving and giving someone else a free pilot, that’s a big deal. Right. They don’t wanna play that game. So anyway, so he said, all right, your interview is next week.

[00:16:48] Adam Jones: And it was like, I don’t know, a week away or something. And what’s good is I already did all the process to become a pilot once, so I had a lot of the paperwork already. I had the flight physical, I just needed to get it updated, you know, I already got lasik. All these different things were done. So yeah.

[00:17:07] Adam Jones: Then eventually I, I’m interviewing and then I convinced the board to select me. And then I got a four day notice of a shortfall, right? Which is like, no, notice you’re going to flight school. So you start in four days.

[00:17:23] Lloyd Knight: Let’s go back to the motions of that, Wendy. We received that. What was that like? Holy cow.

[00:17:30] Adam Jones: Yeah. Um. Well, I was driving at the time and I got the call from the colonel and he said, uh, you told me you would take a shortfall, right? This is the same guy who gave me 30 seconds to convince him. And I said, absolutely, sir. Yep. And he said, all right, are you sitting down right now? And I said, well, I’m driving, but I’m, I’m okay.

[00:17:51] Adam Jones: And he said, okay, a flight slot just opened up and you start in four days. And when I heard that, I was like, holy crap, we’re gonna do this. Like, no way, let’s go. You know, like, like, I can’t believe it. And the fact that I just moved up in the line by so much, you know, that’s something that God can do, right?

[00:18:14] Adam Jones: God, no. No time is lost with the Lord. God can accelerate, he can move the chess pieces around in ways that you never saw possible. So I was originally on like a two and a half year wait list, dude. Yeah. And one month I’m finding out in four days, you start one month after interview. Yeah. So that was, that was crazy.

[00:18:35] Adam Jones: And you know, I go home and tell, tell, tell, uh, my wife Jess, the news, and I said, Hey, you know how we want to go to flight school? She’s like, yeah. I said, all right, well we started four days. And she’s like, what? I was like, I got accepted. We’re moving to Alabama. Like, when are we moving to Alabama? I like, in 24 hours probably.

[00:18:53] Adam Jones: You know, it’s crazy. And, uh, that started our adventure, man. We got to live such a amazing adventure.

[00:19:01] Lloyd Knight: Let’s go back. Let’s talk a little bit about that. You know, I, I was married to, uh. A, uh, military spouse before she passed away after 34 years of marriage. And uh, sometimes when you break those, that news, it’s well received.

[00:19:15] Lloyd Knight: And sometimes when you break, it’s not well received. So what was her attitude like when you told her it worked? We’re moving to Alabama? Yeah. In 24 hours.

[00:19:24] Adam Jones: Honestly. ’cause this was the first big military moment for her. Right. It was all fresh. We were young, you know, 23 years old. It was just like, all we have is our puppy.

[00:19:35] Adam Jones: Okay. But, uh, let’s go, you know? And then she, you know, told her work and then we were on our way and a car. We’ve each took our cars, loaded it up as much as we could, had the new dog and left everything else, you know, and waited for the traditional household goods shipment to eventually take over a couple months later, get our stuff.

[00:19:58] Adam Jones: But until then, we’re just gonna. Take some clothes with us and whatever else we can fit. So then we, you know, we moved down there and, you know, immediately had a house on base and we had a, we had an air mattress. We bought two lawn chairs, Tommy Bahama lawn chairs, and then we had our dog and our clothes.

[00:20:17] Adam Jones: And that was, that was it, man. That was all our furniture, you know, it was two two Tommy Bahama line lawn chairs in the house, like as if they’re the furniture and then the air mattress. But I would say, yeah, this was like, I don’t even know what to think. Let’s, that sounds exciting. Let’s go do that. And it really did start like such an adventure and I think for her it gave her such fast exposure to that military life.

[00:20:39] Adam Jones: ’cause sometimes with like guard or reserves, you know, you’re a little bit more, at least staying in a location, you know, staying in a state or something like that. Like you might move around every once in a while. But that was a big one for us. We ended up moving a ton Yeah. On us. But that was one that was big.

[00:20:55] Adam Jones: Yeah.

[00:20:55] Lloyd Knight: Very cool. Move. Yeah. Yeah. My late wife and I are, when we got married, very young, 18. Yeah. In our first a, uh, apartment, we had two lawn chairs. We leased a TV and we had a watered no.

[00:21:09] Adam Jones: What, what,

[00:21:11] Lloyd Knight: so this is, I’m a little bit older than me. This, we got married in 87. Okay. So yeah. Water beds were the big things.

[00:21:17] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. But you know what? Those times when you didn’t have nothing made you really thankful for the times when you had something.

[00:21:24] Adam Jones: Yeah. And when you go through Survival School, seer school, they teach you to visualize yourself. In your home. Right. And like, walk yourself through your house and take yourself out of where you are and put yourself somewhere else.

[00:21:37] Adam Jones: And I’m thinking, I can’t see anything, man. All I see is lawn charts and empty hallways. You know, spray stop hitting me is not coming in. There’s nothing even I see my dog Yeah. And I see some chicken, you know? Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. Then when I got outta school, the house was totally done. Yeah. At that point, you’re outta contact for weeks and I come back.

[00:22:03] Adam Jones: Yeah. And, uh, boom, there’s, there’s a whole house, you know, and, uh, all set up

[00:22:09] Lloyd Knight: have been there, done that as well. Yep. Yep. So you’re in pilot training, you learn how to fly the Black Hawk. Was it everything that you thought it would be?

[00:22:20] Adam Jones: Yeah, eventually, you know, you think you want it so bad, so that means you’re gonna be good at it.

[00:22:25] Adam Jones: And it didn’t come natural to me. I tend to be someone who’s very methodical, structured, part of flying. You know, a Black Hawk at least is more of a, a feel too, right? And like feeling out and being fully there and knowing how to respond. ’cause it’s always gonna be different. And part of me, I want, like when this happens, do this.

[00:22:48] Adam Jones: But it’s not always that way. Very rarely is it that way. So I had to learn how to be more present with the aircraft and, and like be in that seat and enjoy the flight or command the aircraft rather than just reacting to everything. So I was surprised by how hard it was for me for a little while, but eventually it all came together for sure.

[00:23:09] Adam Jones: I had a really cool, uh, instructor pilot who was like, Hey man, dude, you gotta think like Yoda here. And I was like, all right, what do you need? And he is like. Because I was saying, man, I’m trying to hover, I’m trying to hover, you know, and he goes, do or do not. There is no try, you know? And he said, you can’t, to hover, you either hover or you don’t, you know?

[00:23:31] Adam Jones: That was good.

[00:23:32] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. Yeah. So you end up flying to Black Hawk for three and a half years. So that, which I could tell is, did I get that right? We think year

[00:23:42] Adam Jones: I started, I started flying in 2024, and then I stopped my o that did not make anything. 2014. 14. And then I, and you stopped military in 2020?

[00:23:55] Adam Jones: Yeah. So just about six. Yep.

[00:23:57] Lloyd Knight: Okay. Six years. So, um, why the exit?

[00:24:02] Adam Jones: I mean, I think, I thought, dude, like I just knew I was supposed to get out, you know, like I had this immediate peace. Of a decision, which was I have to get outta the military. And I don’t think I really knew why yet. I just knew I was, you know, for me with, with my faith with the Lord, I felt like I was just being instructed to, and I always had so much respect for people who just listened to God over anyone else.

[00:24:33] Adam Jones: Yeah. And to me, I’m not hurting anyone by getting out. Right. So there was nothing morally or ethically wrong with that. It was more of a trust and you know, Jess was like, I’m not making this decision for you. You have to choose this. You know, if that’s what you really want. And I think, I thought it was just gonna be.

[00:24:53] Adam Jones: What was supposed to happen, even though it’s not necessarily what I wanted. You know, I would’ve wanted to just keep flying and all that. But we talked before about how like things were off. Our house was not a home of peace. Things were outta balance. I’m a very driven person and I was so focused on my soldiers and the mission and flying and all these things.

[00:25:18] Adam Jones: Eventually, you know, without realizing it, I’m giving my wife and my firstborn daughter my leftovers and seeing like, no, that’s not what I wanted though. That’s not what I would intend for them. So what’s happening to me? And I just felt like I could never be present. And even though I had everything I ever wanted, something was still missing and I was like empty.

[00:25:41] Adam Jones: And you know, a broken hearted leader breaks more hearts, right? If you’re hurting, if it’s not a time to put yourself in more positions of leadership. It’s a time to go get healthy and healed. And I think God’s most precious resource is people. So you’re not gonna be trusted with more people. And if you are, should you be, you know?

[00:26:03] Adam Jones: So those are the kind of things I was processing. And like I said, I had this like peace, even though everything else was, there was no peace. There was peace inside about a thought, which was like, I have to start the process of getting out.

[00:26:19] Lloyd Knight: And, and when you, when you got out, it didn’t instantly fix it, did it?

[00:26:24] Adam Jones: No, that was what’s really hard for me to comprehend. And also for, I think other people, I’m trying to warn them if there’s something off right now in your life, like if you are hurting, if you feel empty, if you feel like you’re gonna explode all the time, I know you think getting out will get it out, but that’s not how this works.

[00:26:47] Adam Jones: You could actually be in the military, stay in the military, work on this, and continue to stay in and have a great life and be, you could have peace inside and be surrounded by pressure and chaos, and you’ll be okay. I really, I really believe that for me, I had to get out in order to finally wake up. But what I, what surprised me was I thought the answer was getting out.

[00:27:13] Adam Jones: That’s why my picture, when I was done, like my last day as a captain in the army and stuff, I’m smiling, man, I’m stoked, you know, I’m thinking, this is it. I’m gonna be a present father and husband and, you know, I didn’t realize that availability is what I was gonna give them. You know, presence is a whole different thing.

[00:27:33] Adam Jones: Availability does not equal presence. And for me, I was just gonna be available. I was gonna be there. But I found out in a, in the upcoming months that mentally I wasn’t there. And I was super pissed and frustrated because I’m like, what the heck, man? I did everything I didn’t want to do to repair this family and listen to God and it’s not getting better.

[00:28:00] Adam Jones: You know, like that’s how I felt. I was angry, man. I was, I look in the mirror and I’d, I’d hate the guy. Looking back, I’d be annoyed from neighbors and all their conversations like, like small talk has always been hard for me. It’s improved a lot because I don’t really see it as small talk anymore. I see it as people just trying to get to know each other.

[00:28:18] Adam Jones: Right. But in the past it was like, what are we talking about? You know, I can’t pretend to care. And I just remember feeling so irritated. I still felt stressed. And then, you know, finding out from my wife that like. She felt like I wasn’t there. And I’m thinking, no, no, no. This is not how the story goes. That is not fair to me at all.

[00:28:39] Adam Jones: What do you mean I’m not here? I’m right in front of you. I’m here right now. I’m wearing civilian clothes. You know, I’m no longer a Black Hawk pilot. I’m no longer a captain. I have a stupid I corporate job. That’s how I, that’s how I felt back then, right? I have this job that pays me more, but I feel less valuable and no one gets me.

[00:28:59] Adam Jones: And you’re telling me this isn’t enough for you. I got nothing left to give.

[00:29:04] Lloyd Knight: So tell me what that anger did to you.

[00:29:07] Adam Jones: Well, I could hide it. If I was on a call with someone, I could hide it immediately. I went right into business. ’cause I always knew like, man, I really wanna like. Build something that lasts. I wanna build teams, I wanna build up people.

[00:29:24] Adam Jones: I, so I immediately started like executive coaching and stuff, and I had a couple clients and I could always be fine for them or for a podcast, I’d be okay. But that takes energy to hold that together. So, so you’re actually draining yourself more like Elise, right now, as you and I are talking, I’m fully here and I’m fully me.

[00:29:42] Adam Jones: I’m not draining myself by pretending I’m someone else. And I think that’s a key point for a lot of people to know. But like for me, the anger started to play out into my actions. So I’m angry and now without meaning it, I’m throwing something without meaning. It, I’m slamming the door without intending it.

[00:30:04] Adam Jones: I’m being short with my tone with, um, my wife or daughter or something, right? Like I was not in a good space at all. And. And eventually I would find that I felt like this is how identity is like one of the most powerful forces in the world. It really is like you’ll do everything to defend you who you see yourself as.

[00:30:29] Adam Jones: Like people fight and give everything they have to defend. This is who I am, based on what I understand about myself right now. If you get that wrong, that’s not a good thing and, and I got that wrong. But I would say in the deepest part of even you and I, Lloyd is like, we are warriors and we are protectors and that identity without recognizing it.

[00:30:52] Adam Jones: See, I recognize it now, but back then I didn’t get it. I think because I was a protector and someone who was willing to fight, I realized that I wasn’t protecting, I needed to protect my wife from me. I needed to protect my daughter from me because I was the threat. Not that I would ever hurt them, but I’m not helping them.

[00:31:15] Adam Jones: Life is not better because of me. In your life, it’s probably you. You’re more frustrated, you’re more tired, you know, you’re constantly having to clean up after me because I forgot something. You know, I’m, I’m draining you. So if I’m hurting you, maybe the best thing I can do is leave you. Maybe I will actually help you.

[00:31:33] Adam Jones: Maybe the most selfless thing I can do is leave and it’ll give you a better life.

[00:31:39] Lloyd Knight: So how, how, what was the low point that drove you to seek help?

[00:31:47] Adam Jones: Those, like inner wrestlings and stuff, they got pretty loud and it’d be on and off or I wasn’t like that every day, but some days I was. And you know that, I think that’s where, you know, I, I talk about how we all drift in life and if you do hard things, you’re gonna drift.

[00:32:04] Adam Jones: Well. I’m drifting a little bit. More each time, just a little bit more. Maybe sometimes it’s stable, then the drift continues. Maybe we’re okay for a bit, but we’re gonna keep drifting in that wrong direction. And if I didn’t recognize it for what it was, but I would eventually maybe go pick up groceries or something like that, right?

[00:32:24] Adam Jones: Or it’s something that requires me to leave the house a couple times. I probably forced myself out of the house, but I just get in my car and, um, play like really loud, angry music and start hitting the gas and driving really aggressive on different roads like swerving and thinking. Like those same destructive thoughts of like, maybe things would be better off without me.

[00:32:50] Adam Jones: And putting myself in a position where like my heart’s racing, like I’m feeling alive, I’m feeling like, like the risk, you know, feeling that adrenaline. And then sometimes you think like, okay, I’m not gonna take my, maybe I don’t take my foot off the gas as fast this time. Maybe I don’t hit the brakes.

[00:33:07] Adam Jones: Maybe I’ll wait a little bit longer. And that’s why I always say it’s like I didn’t really have like suicidal thoughts, but I did suicidal things.

[00:33:14] Lloyd Knight: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:15] Adam Jones: Like, I wasn’t like trying to take myself out other than those moments and the way I, I, I did that to me, leaving wasn’t, wasn’t like, you know, killing myself.

[00:33:27] Adam Jones: It was like, I’ll just walk outta the house and I’ll go serve the world because I can’t figure out my own home. Like I’ll give everyone else what I can give ’em. ’cause I seem to be appreciated out there. But my, my house, I, I lost this one, you know?

[00:33:45] Lloyd Knight: Wow. So what, what drove you to give help?

[00:33:51] Adam Jones: Help? Um, well, you know, again, I didn’t know it.

[00:33:54] Adam Jones: I didn’t, I didn’t know how serious it was. Someone else did, right? Yeah. Plain and simple. I, I started building a couple relationships that I felt like God literally placed into my life for, even to this point. These people are still in my life. A guy named David and a guy named Israel. And David started to share with me, you know, different perspectives on the way I was seeing my life and seeing purpose, like, thinking purpose was something I have to go do, rather than it’s, it’s already here seeing a mission as like right here, right now, rather than something I have to, you know, go join up for seeing my family as part of equipping me, and also I’m there for them.

[00:34:36] Adam Jones: So, like, David started working with me and then Israel. These are both two, you know, men of Faith. Israel was in his sixties, had a whole lot of money at one point, and, um, lost it. And he basically started to work with me and was like, Hey, look like I’m happier than I ever have been my whole life. And I had success.

[00:34:59] Adam Jones: And he said, and you had success too. And it’s hard to not see yourself just as like the Black Hawk pilot in those things, but I think you’re gonna have to figure out who you are without any of that. And one thing he said to me that I thought was really interesting, like it was just like a meeting just like this, right?

[00:35:18] Adam Jones: We’re just virtual, getting to know each other. And he said, um, Adam, I really like you. And he said, you seem like a really cool guy. Like really good guy. And I remember hearing Good guy and it like made me tear up because I was thinking, what? He doesn’t know that I just got in an argument with my wife right before this call.

[00:35:33] Adam Jones: And again, I wasn’t like this terrible person screaming at my wife. We were yelling at each other. You see what I’m saying? Like our house was a house of tension. We were not on the same page. But I can’t change her. I can only change me. The only thing I can change is my attitude and my actions, not someone else’s.

[00:35:51] Adam Jones: So I always make this story very specific about the things I could control. And then it started to change her too. So anyway, so Israel goes, you know, I like you, man. I think you’re a really good guy. That made me tear up a little bit. By the way, I wasn’t someone who would tear up. And then he said, you also seem like nervous.

[00:36:09] Adam Jones: And I thought like nervous. And then immediately my first thought was, what am I getting wrong? Like, wait, I’m showing, I’m not showing the right thing to this person. He’s seemed nervous. I don’t want him to seem nervous. You know? So that mask was no longer working with him. And he said, yeah, it seems like you’re not sure how to sit sometimes, or you know, like, ha ha ha, you know, like, you’re trying to be here, but you know, you’re not fully here.

[00:36:35] Adam Jones: And um, he basically just pointed out like, I think you have, he said, I think you have soul damage. And I was like, what is, what is soul damage? And, um, it was what I had, you know, it was deep darkness and wounds from different areas of my life that I wasn’t dealing with, and I was suppressing them without recognizing that the stuff I was suppressing was spreading and hurting other people.

[00:36:59] Adam Jones: So he, he, wow. He did it, man. He called out my drift. You know, just like a crew chief does. Same thing like, dude, you’re not okay. And I’m like, what? I’m not okay. How do you know I’m not okay? Like you’re just waiting the mail.

[00:37:13] Lloyd Knight: Well, it’s one thing to be told you’re not okay. It’s another thing to have courage to go get help.

[00:37:22] Lloyd Knight: So what drove you to to, to seek help. And then what, what did that help look like?

[00:37:28] Adam Jones: Well, I could tell that he was healthy. So if I, if he has it, maybe he can give it to me. Like, this all ties back to mentorship and community, that the right community, the right mentorship, the right mindsets. So I was taught like a performance mindset my whole life.

[00:37:48] Adam Jones: Probably. You were too, man. You know, it’s like, all right, I’m gonna go do this thing and then people will like me because I did this thing well, and then I don’t wanna stop doing this thing, you know, because if I do, then people won’t want me here anymore. And when I do this, people like me and they appreciate me and I belong.

[00:38:06] Adam Jones: That’s a performance mindset. You’re determining your value and your identity based on what you do and how well you do it. And that was me. And what, what he started to expose me to was like, you can just be, and you, you, you can start to work through what you’ve been suppressing and properly, like you would always use the term govern.

[00:38:32] Adam Jones: You could properly govern yourself and your emotions. And you don’t do that by holding ’em in. You do it by letting ’em out the right way. And um, I began to see there were certain people in my life who maybe drove me to feel I was only as good as my performance and those type of things just kind of compounded right to where eventually I felt like that was just how I saw myself too.

[00:39:00] Adam Jones: So.

[00:39:02] Lloyd Knight: Wow. So you, so you started making those, those foundational changes, how quickly did it start helping, not only in your life, but how quickly did it start repairing your family?

[00:39:17] Adam Jones: You know, like for me, man, I, I felt like anytime I did something wrong that God left me. You know, that was my, my mindset. Like if I fell short in any area, like let’s say it was anger, right?

[00:39:28] Adam Jones: And not acting it perfect. I’m alone for a little while until God’s ready to come back and hang out with me. That’s kind of how I felt, and I had to start to change that and be. More convicted by what he says, not what I think. What he says is, I’ll never leave you. So these type of things, I just started to finally believe.

[00:39:52] Adam Jones: I started to learn about the kingdom compared to religion and how man created religion. But God has a kingdom and that kingdom is his, his will and his way of life and we’re part of it. We’re part of the design for this world, right? To help make it better, to bring it into order, to take care of things and make them better.

[00:40:16] Adam Jones: You know, multiplying and stewarding, like all that stuff started to be revealed to me and I were thinking, man, I haven’t noticed any of this before. You know? I thought I had to go get this stuff. We who I’m already full. You know? I started to believe eventually that like, it’s took a long time, man, but eventually it’s like, wait, I’m already full because I’m with the Lord and he’s full.

[00:40:37] Adam Jones: So like. So am I, I don’t need to go get anything to be better or be more full. I have to be real. I have to realize what I already have. And there was just so many steps to my, my mentorship journey. So many, there was consistent calls like this, you know, there was journaling. I would journal in the morning and write, all right, Lord, you know, what do you wanna say to me today?

[00:40:59] Adam Jones: And then I would just start writing. There was a pursuit of being with God in the morning through scripture and just sitting and reading and not trying to get it done fast, but just enjoying the process of reading. And at first, man, it made things worse in my home because now Adam’s changing. Like who, who is this guy?

[00:41:19] Adam Jones: I just wanted my husband to be present and like enjoyable. I don’t want him to be a whole different person. Wow, that’s deep and heartbreaking, you know?

[00:41:32] Lloyd Knight: Wow. Yeah. How, how, how in the

[00:41:33] Adam Jones: world did you

[00:41:34] Lloyd Knight: work through

[00:41:34] Adam Jones: that? I was warned again, you know, and look like, like we’re paying it forward. You know, I mentor people one-on-one now, just like he mentored me.

[00:41:42] Adam Jones: I have a community to help people. Just like a community helped me because that’s the stuff I needed. You don’t correct the drift by yourself. You don’t even see the drift by yourself.

[00:41:51] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. But let’s go back, let’s, let’s go back. So let’s see, uh, ’cause I want to dig into this. Okay, so you, you’re making these, the, these foundational changes and, and, and now you’re, your wife is like, holy cow, you’re, you’re changing in the, not the person I married, or not the, you know, not the person.

[00:42:11] Lloyd Knight: Uh, right. So

[00:42:12] Adam Jones: a hundred

[00:42:12] Lloyd Knight: percent. It’s

[00:42:13] Adam Jones: crazy. How in the world would you work through that? Well, again, I’m like, what the heck, dude? I’m just trying to do the right thing. I’m trying to like be here for you. Be better. And you’re saying again, this isn’t enough. I was just like, I’m so tired. But the, the big thing was Israel warned me and he said, Hey, you’re gonna have to have courage because the way you see performance is the way you also see your house.

[00:42:46] Adam Jones: You think I have to perform for Jess over and over and over and perform as a father. And when I underperform, like shame, right? And that’s what’s happening to you as well. And even Jess is going, you’re a performer. You can perform. You are a high performer. I have seen you do it. You know, and that’s how you have presented yourself to her.

[00:43:09] Adam Jones: And you’re gonna have to present yourself as a whole new person and say that, look, I’m not gonna get it all right anymore, but I am gonna, I am gonna start to grow. And what he told me, and what I tell everyone now is I say, look. You’re gonna have to ask your wife or husband or kids or whoever it is, right?

[00:43:25] Adam Jones: For me, it was my wife permission to change. So I said, Hey, like, I know this is probably gonna get maybe weird for you ’cause you’re, you’re thinking, well, you used to dress this way, now you’re dressing this way. You used to do this in the morning. Now you’re doing this in the morning. Like, what’s going on?

[00:43:40] Adam Jones: And, and he, he told me to just say like, just ask her for patience. Can you just gimme some patience as I try to grow and figure this out? Because I believe the person you’re gonna meet next, you’re gonna like even more. And that’s, that’s what I had to believe as a whole new person was gonna show up in my house soon.

[00:43:59] Lloyd Knight: Did she figure that out? Yeah,

[00:44:00] Adam Jones: totally. Yeah. No doubt. Yeah. And how, and, and how long did that take and what did that look like? Yeah, this stuff took like a, probably a good year and a half of just solid focus, right? I would say success is much more about subtraction than addition. People always wanna know, what else do I need to do?

[00:44:16] Adam Jones: It’s like, what, what do you need to stop doing? What do you need to remove? What space do you need to create? I think that’s the harder question and we have to start with that. So I had to shut down a business, I had to simplify life. I had to step away from a church role, all these different things that are good things, these are good things.

[00:44:37] Adam Jones: These are helping people making, making a difference. Impacting, yeah, but I gotta get this right first. And this is easier for me. It’s easier for me to go help these people. This is hard. And I think a lot of military people could agree that this, that’s the hard thing, man. You know, like getting my home all on the same page and stuff.

[00:44:58] Adam Jones: Like I can go perform for the military, but like when I come home, this is hard to figure out. Maybe it’s easier to just stay a little bit later. Right. So for me, I ran into those big shifts and uh, you know, like I said, just saw change and was really scared. ’cause she was like. What are you doing? Where are you going?

[00:45:21] Adam Jones: Now you’re gonna go travel to California. Why are you going to California? When, when like our whole life is falling apart? I’m like, well, I think there’s an event that I need to be at. It was just like a ministry event, but it was one that I felt like God was saying go to and I said, I think it’s gonna help us.

[00:45:38] Adam Jones: And it did. Dude, I’m telling you man, three days of like the right mindset started to to transform me of just like this healing started to happen. So many people prayed for me and prayed for her. And I remember hearing like when God talks to you, recognize, he also talks to your wife and you know, you’re thinking it’s just you and him, but there’s her too.

[00:46:04] Adam Jones: And like start to trust that. So we started to see each other as partners, you know, rather than like opposing forces and uh. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of amazing things came from that man. I mean, now, you know, like, we’re best friends. We, we do life together. And the marriage that I almost lost was revived. Right.

[00:46:24] Lloyd Knight: Amen. That’s, it’s remarkable. But it, it wasn’t a flip of the switch. No. So it, it took, it took, uh, effort, it took pain, it took a transformation. Yeah. A remarkable story. So now fast forward it, you decide to write a book, you de decide to do Kingdom Operatives, which we’re gonna talk, but what, what changed?

[00:46:49] Lloyd Knight: From just focusing on this, like Right. So like, I, I gotta fix this.

[00:46:55] Adam Jones: Yeah. And,

[00:46:56] Lloyd Knight: and, and now you, you have a calling to go, Hey, I can use everything that was taught to me by the mentors, what I’ve been reading, how I’ve transformed what I’ve done with my family. I can help other people. Yeah. Yeah. So, so what, what was that journey like where you kind of figured out like, whoa, I, I, I, I, I still have this, I, I can, I can go and, and help people, but it’s not gonna be, I’m not gonna be a coul consultant.

[00:47:24] Lloyd Knight: Like, I’m not even gonna be, you know, I’m not helping ’em a business. I’m helping them in life. Yeah.

[00:47:29] Adam Jones: Yeah. You know, I still try to figure out how to explain all that we do, because. So my organization, Kingdom Operatives, right? I always say we equip leaders to build mission effective teams. That’s like team focused.

[00:47:40] Adam Jones: But before we could do any of that, we gotta make that person extremely healthy and in a great state and know clearly who they are before the world told them who to be. And part of that starts with the beginning of, I’m drifting. I don’t want to keep drifting. What’s causing it? And what do I want next?

[00:47:56] Adam Jones: You know? So like there’s this like recovery of like, you’re about to crash. Oh, now that we stop that, let’s see what was causing it. Oh, now that we can see what’s causing it, we can respond to it. And now that we can respond to it, we can figure out what we want most, which might not be the thing you’ve been doing.

[00:48:12] Adam Jones: Might not be the job you have. It might not be all the things you’ve been saying are your ambitions. Maybe it’s, I want to be super wealthy and I wanna take care of my family forever. ’cause I want so much money, we never have to worry about it. Maybe eventually you’re like, no, actually that’s not a priority to me anymore.

[00:48:25] Adam Jones: All those different things can happen and then eventually you get to the point of like building them to a whole new level. You know, saying, we got that part, now we can start to climb now that this stuff isn’t alignment. So I think it’s a unique way for me to get to the big point, which is when you’re in proper alignment, that’s key.

[00:48:47] Adam Jones: Like you gotta be properly aligned. Like, this is who I am, this is what I do because of who I am. So you have to know clearly who you are. So I had to know, this is who Adam is. I, I started to like journal and like kind of think of, and I would say in prayer, get inspiration of like phrases that describe who I was.

[00:49:08] Adam Jones: You know, one of those is I am a sound of freedom. And that was before that movie ever came out. You know, like I’m a sound of freedom and um, I’ve never heard that in my whole life. And I was just kinda like, wow, now check it out because I am a sound of freedom I need to be speaking. And what, what’s the result I should expect that people get when I show up?

[00:49:32] Adam Jones: Freedom. Why? Because I am a sound of freedom. So when I speak freedom comes, uh, I should probably be doing public speaking work. That was the type of shift that started to happen in my mind. And again, through people like Israel and David right to point these things out and communities that I belong to, to say, when you know who you are, you know what you’re supposed to do, then it’s just a matter of sharing it with the world and showing up to where you’re supposed to be.

[00:49:59] Adam Jones: You know, your mess becomes your message. The cracks in my armor became something I wasn’t embarrassed of ’cause they didn’t define who I was. So I’m gonna go share with other people because there’s someone just like me right now who is feeling like I felt a couple years ago and is seeing no way out.

[00:50:18] Adam Jones: And they need someone to say that I can see the drift and it’s okay. That drift doesn’t define you. Like think about this, usually you find these like radical accountability. Messages that make you feel like crap, right? And that you’re not enough. I think because of the lens that that I have and the compassion that’s been built, you could be way off.

[00:50:43] Adam Jones: And I want you to know that you are enough, even right there in that moment, because this isn’t who you are. This is where you are. So there’s no need to beat yourself up, man. You’re just making a couple wrong inputs right now that are adding up to this part of your life being where you are. Let’s just make the adjustments get aligned to who we are and what we wanna be doing next, and life becomes really simple.

[00:51:07] Adam Jones: So for me, I never. Like I, I would say I always had such an appreciation for like leaders and books about leadership and stuff. So maybe one day I’d write a book about that, but I didn’t have anything to write about. I wasn’t pursuing becoming a writer or an author. I was a brand new dad. Again, you know, this, my second kid was born and I felt like I was supposed to start writing about this, and I was supposed to kind of give like a blueprint or a framework, which I didn’t have.

[00:51:37] Adam Jones: I had a whole lot of conversations with people I haven’t mentioned to you here. I mean, dude, I was so hungry to, to be better and to change that. I just talk to everyone and anyone. I, I talk to Bronze Star recipients and Marines and, and Air Force and I talked to Guard Reserve and I talk and I started finding all these trends.

[00:52:00] Adam Jones: You know, like, wait, we’re way more alike than we think. Everyone would always say like, don’t go chase that man. And it was always like about rank or if I could get back or if I would’ve deployed. You know, do, do not play that game. It’s never enough. I’ve played the game. It’s not enough. So I had all these people telling me that it was kind of like, then there’s something bigger here hurting us.

[00:52:19] Adam Jones: And then that’s why eventually I realized that this identity, again, identity is so powerful. If I’m a protector and a warrior and a defender, then I usually won’t do things for me because like, it’s not really about me, it’s about a battle. It’s about a person or a group that you’re protecting. You see what I’m saying?

[00:52:41] Adam Jones: That’s not about us usually. So I wasn’t willing to change. For me, all the way back to those very beginning conversations, I could see that my wife was tired and it was because of me. I could see that my daughter. Did not have a strong bond with me at the time, and that wasn’t because of her. That was because of me getting in my own way.

[00:53:05] Adam Jones: So I’m going to go to war. The real ba, I mean like, look, I’m not, I, what I would say is there’s a real battle right now for the heart and the mind of warriors and protectors. In the course of 14 years from Iraq to Afghanistan war, there was under 7,000 service members killed in action in the same 14 years.

[00:53:24] Adam Jones: DOD estimates that there was 73,000 service members and veterans who were killed by suicide, right? Killed by themselves. So like, if that’s the thing here, then there’s a, there’s a war here. There’s something we’re fighting against. I wasn’t willing to fight it so that I felt better. I didn’t really care how I felt.

[00:53:44] Adam Jones: I cared that they were feeling what I felt. So I’ll go fight that. And then when I did and, and we started to have victory, which you could see in the change of my relationship with my wife, the way our conversation started to open up a grace and appreciation for one another. Me going on daddy daughter dates, you know, with my daughters, all these different things of like, Adam didn’t used to do that stuff.

[00:54:09] Adam Jones: So remember Adam changed, right? He, this is not the same guy I married. No, he’s better. I mean, how cool is that? You know better. No, love it. He’s better. He’s here. He’s, he’s, he’s not obsessed with just achieving and impacting, he realizes this is his place of impact too. And he, he, he recognizes that life is meant to also be enjoyed.

[00:54:32] Adam Jones: This is the genesis principle. You know, in scripture, Adam and Eve were put in the garden with God to walk with him, to enjoy it. To take care of a couple things, yes. But also just to like, it wasn’t really a hard life back then. None of the, the, the bad stuff started to come yet. So having this back in the garden kind of mindset of like, that’s my present reality again is I’m allowed to just enjoy sitting outside with my dogs.

[00:55:00] Adam Jones: You know, I’m allowed to just have a beer and like, relax and that’s not being unproductive, that’s being present. You know, all these things started to change in me. And um, like I told you, you know, I felt like it was, I was being inspired. Like, I felt this like inspiration of like, you got, I gotta write about this, you know, I gotta share this with someone and I don’t know who, but maybe someone will read this one day.

[00:55:26] Adam Jones: And man, how crazy is this story? You know? Now I’m working with Basses. I didn’t think a bass would listen to a paragraph, you know? And then me with commanding generals who like read the book. That’s crazy.

[00:55:41] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, I, uh, I was doing some Google, i, I, I don’t, honestly, with the Tango Tango podcast, I don’t overly prepare because I just want the story to go where it goes.

[00:55:54] Lloyd Knight: But for, for you, I just, let me take a look at what Adam has been up to since the last time we chatted, and I was like, holy cow, he’s on the Army website. army.mil and h how, wow. I mean like, like the army used to be anti this stuff, like, right. And holy cow. So like one, their mindset’s totally changed, and two, you’re being transformational.

[00:56:22] Lloyd Knight: Let them put all this on their site that you’re going on, the basis that the general’s reading your book. Man, it’s real impact. I’m excited it, again, you’re changing the stars for not only service members, but their families and, and that is generational kind of stuff. So I’m proud of you. I’m like super proud of you.

[00:56:43] Lloyd Knight: We’re gonna get to meet here and, uh, and it’s a much from today. Wow. So the, uh, we’ll be at the Military Influencers Conference here in Veteran City, USA, as I call it, uh, Atlanta, Georgia. So I can’t wait. And not only can I now wait to meet you in person, I’m, I’m looking f forward to your, your discussion that you’re moderating, and then I’m really looking forward to connecting you with some of the, some of the key players here.

[00:57:11] Lloyd Knight: And, and then I wanna get more involved with Key CRAs. So the, it’s not, I can’t wait to, to have that discussion with you. Wow. So the, uh, I, I’m excited. I, I thank a, uh, man, you, you. You had to suffer, brother. Yeah. You, you, you had to suffer. But out of that suffering, and we know the story and I like a, a, a amazing things, uh, have happened.

[00:57:36] Lloyd Knight: It’s incredible. So we’re, we’re gonna close it out here shortly, but I, I want, I already, I want part two. I right? I, I, I want to give more into it, but if somebody’s struggling right now with saying the same issues that, that you are dealing with, what piece of advice can you offer?

[00:57:54] Adam Jones: First thought is, we may not share a story, but we probably share a struggle whether our story all match perfectly.

[00:58:03] Adam Jones: That’s what I think, that’s what we do wrong. We, we look for someone who has this perfect matching story to get it. Well, you don’t get it. ’cause you don’t, you don’t get it. ’cause you don’t, you don’t. It’s like, no, no, no. We all are struggling. High performers share a struggle. So if there are other high performers.

[00:58:19] Adam Jones: Chances are they get this feeling that you feel. Now there’s different levels to it, but for me, I thought my story didn’t qualify. My struggle, dude, I had like a, a, a good upbringing. I went to college. I became a Black Hawk pilot. Uh, I lived in Colorado. Like things were, the story wasn’t qualifying the struggle.

[00:58:43] Adam Jones: You see what I’m saying? I can’t think of a time where I was like beaten in other than see your school. Not hopeful I’m allowed to say that. Um,

[00:58:53] Lloyd Knight: me too. I’ve said it. Me too. I got beaten in instrumental school.

[00:58:57] Adam Jones: You know, like I can’t think of, um, trauma in my life. And if you remember in the book I talk about the four origins of the weapon, and I think these are the qualifiers, I guess you could say to, to help normalize this.

[00:59:13] Adam Jones: One origin is trauma. I did not have. I’m sure, I’m sure there’s something, right? There’s no doubt there’s pieces. But it wasn’t like evident like, oh yeah, ’cause I was in this, this combat zone and I saw this. Or because, you know, my, my parents got in a car accident and I lost them. Like those type of things, like nothing, right?

[00:59:34] Adam Jones: So trauma wasn’t a thing for me. But then I began to see through all these conversations, trends, and I feel like that’s just a little bit of how I’m wired as I can see patterns. And the next thing was training. We were trained to suppress our emotion. We are trained to perform. We are trained that your performance gets you rewards.

[00:59:55] Adam Jones: It makes sense why you feel like you don’t wanna let anyone down, right? So it’s important to recognize these. So trauma, training, timing, which is like a certain timing of my life. I think by now I should be here, type of stuff that could start to originate some of these struggles. And then another thing is transition.

[01:00:11] Adam Jones: And by the way, that’s been the most common thing, Lloyd, when we’re going to the bases and stuff, is we’re finding, I never saw it coming with this person now. Now this is the suicide side of the conversation, right? We never saw this coming. No one knew this person was struggling. And I’m thinking no one knew I was struggling either other than maybe my wife and like my mentor, because I hid it from everyone.

[01:00:35] Adam Jones: Because they’re, I’m a high performer. I know how to perform. I can turn it on, I can hide it. So what’s the thing that we need to look for? In this case, it was this person’s going through a transition. Maybe this is an opportunity where we need to be a little bit close to them and take care of them. It could even be a promotion.

[01:00:52] Adam Jones: So these transitions are like promotions. Getting the special forces, you know, getting a divorce, getting married. These are all different transitions, getting outta the military, that type of stuff can really start to shake up the way you see yourself. And these four weapons that I talk about could start to cause people to struggle.

[01:01:09] Adam Jones: So to come back to the question, your story doesn’t need to qualify your struggle. You’re, you’re allowed to have struggle and, and allowed to drift just because life itself. Is challenging and because you’re probably someone who puts a lot of weight on your shoulders and requires a lot from yourself, and that’s okay to just acknowledge it.

[01:01:31] Adam Jones: So you gotta acknowledge it after that, then you can assess what’s causing it and what you want next. And I just want whoever that is like to know like you are. And it is crazy how much you are not alone in this. And I encourage you to start to talk to the people you need to talk to in the smallest steps that you can take.

[01:01:52] Adam Jones: You know, sometimes it looks so far away, like, I gotta go say all this, just get it started, you know? And that’s kind of where our book comes in, right? Is it’s a tool to help have the conversations that people are avoiding.

[01:02:06] Lloyd Knight: So, great. I I appreciate that advice. It’s okay not to be Okay. Ask for help.

[01:02:10] Adam Jones: Yep.

[01:02:11] Lloyd Knight: And then they, then where can folks find you, Adam?

[01:02:16] Adam Jones: So KingdomOperatives.com is our website and in there they can schedule a call. Uh, we have a community for people who connect to what I’m sharing here. It’s a school community. It’s like an online platform. So school skool.com/kingdomoperatives could bring them into a community, which is really nice ’cause now you’re not alone.

[01:02:37] Adam Jones: That’s totally free. And people process thoughts about the book in there and all that kind of stuff as well. It’s really cool to see. The different people from all different walks of life. Very, very senior leaders too, and very junior enlisted, you know, recently separated. People jumping in all, all together, you know, being a one.

[01:02:57] Adam Jones: So I think those are some great areas. And then if anyone wants to connect on like LinkedIn, that’s uh, leadwithadam.

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