Intro/Outro (00:00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the voice of global supply chain Supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from Those Making Global Business happen right here on supply chain now.

Kelly Barner (00:00:31):

Hi everybody, and happy Monday. I’m Kelly Barner, sitting in for Scott Luton today on Supply Chain. Now’s Buzz. And I’m joined by Digital Transformers host Kevin Lal Jackson. Hey, Kevin. How are

Kevin L. Jackson (00:00:43):

You? Hello. It’s the power of the curtains <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:00:49):

We were joking before going live that there’s absolutely no such thing as a boring buzz, and Kevin and I are gonna promise to deliver on that right out of the gate, right?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:00:59):

Yes, absolutely. I didn’t know, did you know Kelly, that my sister’s name is Kelly?

Kelly Barner (00:01:05):

Does she spell it my way?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:01:06):

Absolutely. Yes, exactly. <laugh>. So it’s like, yeah,

Kelly Barner (00:01:10):

She spells it right then

Kevin L. Jackson (00:01:12):

She spells it, right? So, but I meant to ask you, her favorite color is green. Is that yours too? Mine’s blue is blue. Mine’s

Kelly Barner (00:01:21):

Blue

Kevin L. Jackson (00:01:22):

<laugh>. You’re not, You don’t fit in being in Boston. Your name is Kelly. You gotta like green.

Kelly Barner (00:01:30):

I know. Serious. You would think, right? Kelly Green. I know. And back in the day when I was still going by my, my maiden name, um, I was Kelly, Kristin McCarthy, living in Boston, Mass. So maybe that, maybe that checks the box so that I don’t actually have to like green as my favorite color. Okay. It’s still be on scene. I’ll let you go,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:01:49):

<laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:01:51):

So we have a whole bunch of stories that we’re gonna talk through today. And as everybody knows, if you’ve ever attended the buzz before, you are all just as important as Kevin and I are. We wanna hear from you as we go through this conversation. Um, and so we’re gonna open with something a little bit different. <laugh>, we’re gonna start with, I think, what’s the first ever supply chain? Now buzz show and tell. So Kevin, you’re gonna be the show part. What did you bring that you’d like to share with the other boys and girls in the class today?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:02:23):

Oh, teacher. I have an apple for you first. No, <laugh>. Oh, wow. First of all, this came up, uh, in a, in a meeting that we had, and then we were talking about, uh, cell phones. And I said, Well, no, I’m not, I’m not gonna talk about cell phones today. Um, I’m gonna talk about mobile phones and I’m brought this <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:02:54):

I love the Velcro sound. That’s

Kevin L. Jackson (00:02:56):

Awesome. So if you, you don’t know, this is one of the first mobile phones back phone that, uh, its my first bag phone, first mobile phone, <laugh>. You know,

Kelly Barner (00:03:08):

How old is that phone, Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:10):

I’m not gonna, A man never tells his, Does you ever have your bag phone? You ever have a bag phone?

Kelly Barner (00:03:20):

I never had a bag phone. I had a phone that was really chunky and my husband used to call it my satellite phone. <laugh>. It was just, it was just so big. But no, I’ve actually, I’ve never had a bag phone.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:32):

Well, the thing is really interesting about this, you know, you can actually plug it into your cigarette lighter <laugh>. That’s how, how you got power to it. But, um, it had, and it had this, uh, huge, um, this is a mobile phone transmitter, <laugh>. Look at

Kelly Barner (00:03:54):

The size of that thing. All right. So how heavy is it, Kevin? Give us a sense. Yes.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:03:58):

It’s, it’s, it’s about, I know, five pounds maybe. Okay,

Kelly Barner (00:04:04):

So not too heavy.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:04:05):

Yeah, five, five or six pounds. It’s not too heavy. Abstract.

Kelly Barner (00:04:09):

But you sure can’t slip it in your back pocket.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:04:12):

No. Won’t put in my pocket. <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:04:15):

You’d be sitting like on an angle.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:04:17):

You can sit on it though. <laugh> <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:04:22):

All right, so there’s your show now. I was trying to think about what I wanted to share. Yeah. And then I thought, Okay, I’m gonna do the tell. And this also came up in our meeting on Friday. Um, I know Scott was gonna try to tune in. He’s on the road. If he’s not with us live, this is gonna be a nice surprise for him later. <laugh> Scott has this favorite story from my family. So my show and tell is, I’m gonna share this story. We, a couple of years ago had a groundhog in our backyard that was doing a lot of damage. So we decided we were going to gently trap him and rehome him to a local park. So we had him in a, have a heart trap, and all three of my kids got in the backseat of my husband’s truck with the groundhog in the have a heart trap <laugh> with my daughter holding it on her lap because they wanted to bond with the groundhog. I guess this is what you get when dads are in charge. Wow. They handle to open the door, looks exactly like the handle to pick up the whole trap. My daughter wanted to look a little closer. She unintentionally released the ground hug in the truck Wow. With all three kids. And all I heard from the house was screaming because now there’s a ground hug running around in the cab of the truck with the three kids all in there.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:05:39):

Were you driving? Were

Kelly Barner (00:05:41):

You We were not driving yet. Whoa. He was still in the garage. <laugh>, the trip was still in the garage with the kids and the groundhog. Not sure where my husband was, but it was not time yet to take him to the park. So the good news is he ro rehomed himself. We did not see him after we finally got him to escape from the truck. Uh, but that is one of Scott’s favorite stories. So now we officially have it on record as part of a supply chain now livestream.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:06:06):

Wow. This is going to be in a museum somewhere. This show.

Kelly Barner (00:06:11):

You never know <laugh>. No. I’m just hoping I don’t get a call from somebody that’s concerned about leaving my kids here with me. <laugh> <laugh>. So before I get myself in any more trouble, let’s say hello to a few people that have already logged in. Wow. There’s already a lot of people here.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:06:26):

Geez, This is a big show

Kelly Barner (00:06:27):

Already. This is a big show and it’s global. Goodnight from Indonesia. Goodnight. Boy. Arthur, thank you so much for ending your day with us. We also have Cecil here from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Glad you could be with us.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:06:44):

So is it cold in Grand Rapids yet? It’s getting, it’s getting close.

Kelly Barner (00:06:48):

Oh, good question.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:06:49):

Um, my leave started falling off my oak tree, uh, uh, yesterday.

Kelly Barner (00:06:53):

It’s definitely chilling in Boston today too. So we’re starting to make the turn towards fall weather. And, Hello Gomar. Gomar and I have having, having a number of exchanges as well as my good French Shelly. Uh, we’ve been having a lot of discussion based on some of the, uh, some of the Dial P episodes that we’ve been doing. Mm. Um, ooh. In Colorado, let us know how cold it is in Colorado. Shelly, we want the update. And yes, Amanda Scott’s gonna be so excited later. <laugh>, you could, for his birthday, you can make a little audio or video clip so he can now listen to that story anytime he likes

Kevin L. Jackson (00:07:30):

<laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:07:31):

All right. So on that note, we are gonna start off, I’m gonna give everybody a heads up. We have four stories that we’re going to do today. The first three are actually really nice because they build on each other. And I think we’re gonna apply what we learn in articles one and two as we talk about sort of a case example in number three. And then the fourth story we’re gonna talk about is completely different. We’re gonna talk about coincidences. So start gathering your thoughts. Do you believe in coincidences? Do you have a philosophy on how they work? Start thinking about those cuz that’s definitely a place where we’re going to want some input,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:08:09):

Learn something in this show.

Kelly Barner (00:08:11):

We may, I know <laugh> starting of course with supply chain things. So take us through and, and this is interesting. So there’s three different categories of challenge in this particular EY article mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and you are going to take us through the investment in digital and autonomous supply chains. So what did you get from that portion of this article?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:08:35):

Well, well, first of all, they, they focus really on three supply chain themes in this article. The first is the cost optimized supply chains are not fundamentally resilient. They break, right? So cost optimization, which is always the goal for longest time, really don’t work in today’s world. The second is, organizations are really rethinking their business models when it comes to supply chain. Cause they’re placing it at the center of their supply chain. You know, finally we get some, uh, uh, people really believe in the value of supply chain. But as you said, the third one is that companies are investing in digitalization and they’re driving towards the autonomous supply chain as a priority. Uh, so I wanted to focus on that because, you know, it seems to be the heart of digital transformation. And, and in this section, the consultancy really highlighted how networked ecosystem, the solutions for these network ecosystems provide enhanced visibility in the supply chain.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:09:55):

How digital transformation really supports improved product life cycle management, and how the future of supply chain is digital and it’s autonomous. So we’ve talked a lot about autonomous cars on the buzz, but autonomous supply chains is something completely different. Their observation is that creating a digitized autonomous supply chain also needs to be connected. Has tech connected technologies across planning, procurement, manufacturing, and logistics that work well beyond the organization’s four walls. In other words, break all of those silos between you and your business ecosystem partners. Because in this future vision, autonomous operations, in terms of lights out, hands free and self driving, where organizations use artificial intelligence across the end to end supply chain to help make predictive and prescriptive decisions. So what do you think about that?

Kelly Barner (00:11:15):

You know, the funny thing is the, the piece of it that really stands out in my mind is the self-driving <laugh>. And I know it’s not a, a literal comparison, but I think there’s gonna be a lot of trust involved here. You know, I have one of those cars that can parallel park itself. No, I wouldn’t trust my car to parallel park itself for any, I don’t, trust me to parallel park it, but I don’t want the car doing it. And now they have cars that come with a clicker so that if you have to pull out of a really tight space, you can just make the car back up towards you and then you can get in. I’m not sure I’m ready for that in an individual automobile, let alone in a whole supply chain chain.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:11:53):

Wow. So trust is, is important. Um, and this is really trust in your partners cause you’re opening up your network, your information to other companies. Let’s

Kelly Barner (00:12:07):

See. Absolutely. Now, when I looked at these three points, the one that resonated me was the piece about cost optimization and resiliency. Mm. And I certainly get that concern, but my, my procurement brain, that’s, that’s where it goes. And there were three key takeaways from that section of it. One is that we absolutely must think long term that’s challenging, but it’s an absolute must. The second one, Kevin, I’m sure this will come as no surprise. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we have to focus on and invest in the quality of our data because all of these autonomous self-driving things aren’t gonna be doing the right thing if they’re running on bad or old data. Right.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:12:47):

Right.

Kelly Barner (00:12:48):

And the third one comes down to cash. And, and again, this is interesting because it sort of bridges from procurement into a little bit of finance. There’s a lot of companies right now that are concerned or growing, more concerned about their working capital. And so they may be extending days on payment time. They may be extending terms on payments and contracts. But really the case that EY makes about this is that you’re pushing risk into your supply chain and in some cases creating risk where it doesn’t need to exist because now you’re forcing your suppliers to work with less working capital or cash on hand. And that in and of itself creates risk in the supply chain. So those were some interesting points that jumped out at me from that first section on, on cost optimization.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:13:35):

Well, from, from a procurement point of view, does risk cost, like, does, does risk actually add additional cost to what you’re doing? So you sort of get away from cost optimization if you increase your risk?

Kelly Barner (00:13:52):

Yeah, I mean it has a lot to do with appetite. Right. How much risk are you willing to tolerate? What mitigation steps are you looking to invest in? You know, a lot of cases are sort of go-to from a risk mitigation standpoint is making sure we have multiple suppliers, Right. That provide the same good or service. But that requires us to know a lot about our suppliers supply chains. Because if they all source a good or a material from the same supplier, we still have that choke point in the supply chain. It’s just we can no longer directly see it.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:14:24):

Yeah. That, uh, visibility across your entire ecosystem.

Kelly Barner (00:14:28):

Yes, exactly. So let me actually pause here. We’ve had a whole bunch more comments. Combin <laugh> of course. Thank you for joining us, Scott, I’m so glad that you think story that the

Kevin L. Jackson (00:14:40):

Story

Kelly Barner (00:14:41):

<laugh> and ironically you are in Orlando with Phil Eiden from Art of Procurement, my partner there. So it’s nice to have both of you guys with us. This is like old home week. Everybody is, everybody is together here in the vaz. Uh, we’ve also got Dr. Rhonda saying hello. Hi, Dr. Rhonda. So glad you could be with us today. Morning. And my favorite thing, Thank you Shelly. That’s gonna hold me all day. <laugh>. I’ll take it. I’ll absolutely take it. All right. Kevin, you ready for the next story?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:15:14):

Yes, ma’am.

Kelly Barner (00:15:16):

Okay. So I promised we were building, So the first thing was around digital transformation and risks and challenges in the supply chain. Now we’re narrowing it a little bit and we’re gonna look at key steps and common mistakes around digital transformation. Mm-hmm. That applies specifically to manufacturers. So take us through this piece, Kevin.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:15:38):

Yeah. This is really interesting because in this article, Cherry Bayart views digital transformation as really reimagining the business for success by enabling it with technology. It is important to note however, that the core of digital transf transformation is people not technology. It’s the customers and the employees. This is a critical point because while change management can be a significant undertaking for any organization, digital transformation introduces an entirely new level of complexity. Uh, this type of initiative will involve every entity within the organization, which makes mistakes very likely. In fact, research suggests that 70% of digital transformation projects actually fail. This means digital transformation requires a focus on important change management items, like defining clear goals and objectives, committing the right leadership and aligning skill sets with the roles. It’s also critical and important to communicate broadly and often in order to drive adoption. Hey Kelly, this sounds a lot like John’s cos eight step change model, doesn’t it?

Kelly Barner (00:17:16):

<laugh>? No, it definitely does. I’m glad you mentioned the 70% of digital transformation projects failing cuz less stats, right? Yeah. So I’m curious to know, based on your experience, do you think that 70 is right? Do you think it’s a little light? Do you think it’s a little heavy? How do you feel about that 70%?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:17:35):

I actually think it’s probably about right. And why? Because most organizations, when they hear or talk about digital transformation, they go to the technology when it’s not really about technology, it’s about the people and they forget about the people and they sort of try to whip the people in the place saying, Go learn that technology, use the technology, and they minimize the importance of the human brain. Okay. Yeah. Um, you know, the technology has to be there to support what humans do best. So yeah. 70% maybe pushing the 75

Kelly Barner (00:18:17):

<laugh>. Yeah. The one of the things that I found interesting is it talked through, you know, again, the common mistakes and the key factors. One of the key factors I found particularly interesting was the need for hands on leadership. You know, to your point where you said people have the tendency to get the technology, put it in place, and then they say, go adopt it. Just go use it, go figure it out. And even if there’s an executive sponsor for an effort, they’re not necessarily getting their hands dirty, especially over the long term. Yeah. Um, it do you often, especially in your work, see challenges where, to be honest, executives are so busy. People in leadership roles have so many different things that they’re trying to do. It must be hard to find the mind space and the space in your calendar to play the role that the company needs you to play in these transformation projects.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:19:09):

Right. A lot of, uh, leadership is just not comfortable with technology. And that seems surprising in, in today’s world, but you still have people that, you know, have their assistance print out emails. Right. <laugh>, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s unbelievable. You have people that, you know, just don’t understand how important it is to maintain a social presence and how social media is really part of business. And they don’t understand simple things like how to look good and how to present, um, over a webinar. So, uh, that they maybe get scared of it. These are basic business skills in, in today’s world, and all of them require you to be comfortable with technology.

Kelly Barner (00:20:09):

Yeah. What about ownership of those failures? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there, there does need to be some level of accountability. And that’s not to say that someone needs to lose their job necessarily, or that someone needs to be personally held to account for a very large project, but I’ve read a lot of articles about the importance of failing the right way and companies that are willing to celebrate failure. But you do wonder with 70% of digital transformations failing, is there something at the end of that journey where we’re not acknowledging it as a failure or we’re not handling it the right way so that we’re not learning the lessons from that we simply sort of phase out of that effort and phase into something new without actually growing or maturing with regard to the investment in digital?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:20:56):

Well, what happens is that unfortunately, yeah, people see a failure and people get fired. But really a failure is you’re learning things, you’re learning what not to do. And from failures you can learn what to do. But when people fail in digital transformation efforts, they look to see, Okay, what else should we do? And there’s nothing else there. They have to do it again. They have to try it again. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, it’s a little different in that way, but yes, you, you have to, um, expect it to be hard, expect to have to try again and again until you get it right. Because, um, it’s, it’s the ante in business like technology is, uh, uh, a given. You, you have to use it, you have to leverage it, you have to, um, uh, interact with your partners and, and your customers and learn how to do that through technology.

Kelly Barner (00:21:57):

Yeah. So we’re starting to get some really great comments from the sky boxes. So let me pull a few of these comments in, uh, fill back to our, our conversation around handling risk management in the supply chain. If you outsource risk management to your supplier, you pay the price both literally and figuratively. And this is one of those things Kevin, Phil and I get asked a lot mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what is the number one thing that a company can do to become a customer of choice? Pay your suppliers on time.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:22:29):

<laugh>. Right,

Kelly Barner (00:22:30):

Right. That’s, that’s what you can do. Right?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:22:33):

Uh, well also, you know, if you pay them, if you treat them right, they will treat you right.

Kelly Barner (00:22:39):

Yes. I think a lot of companies have now learned that the hard way, especially since we’re adding on top of everything else, some economic pressures. Yeah.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:22:45):

Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:22:46):

And we’ve got some input from Shelly here on going through transformation. So she has a, a close friend going through a project long term. He’s the accountant and doing triple entry to work around the new system. Wow. So they’re still working to implement something and they’re having to do triple work before it’s even fully in place. I have to think that this is an example of a warning sign. Yeah.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:23:10):

That

Kelly Barner (00:23:11):

Kinda comes up in a lot of these projects that if you don’t respond to it, that’s how you get the 70% failure rate.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:23:16):

That lack of communication or not having the right leadership. Um, and, and everyone who’s participating in the transformation needs to understand their role and, and yes. The purpose and what it’s going to deliver to them, let’s say what’s in it for me.

Kelly Barner (00:23:33):

Right. Absolutely. And another great point here from Jerry. There’s transactional cost and there’s total cost. And both reside outside of the risk component, driving the lowest, lowest transactional cost is just the beginning. And there’s all of these other value oriented things. Customer service, contingency planning and liability. These are all critical. So we have to think much bigger picture about risk around the value we’re trying to get from digital transformation around our partnerships with suppliers. Thinking bigger is part of how we control that risk.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:24:06):

Yeah. And, and and the effort, the effort that you put in to improve communication, the, the com improve connectivity across your ecosystem, that is buying down risk. Think of it as buying down risk or, or actually providing more value to your customers.

Kelly Barner (00:24:31):

I like that idea of buying down risk. You know, risk feels so amorphous that even if we can’t put a precise cost on it or a precise quantitative measure thinking, trying to think about it in that way, even if we’re not exactly right, we’re probably directionally accurate. I have to think that would improve decision making, especially where risk is a factor.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:24:52):

Yeah, absolutely. Um, looking at and comparing different options, unfortunately, we, we don’t do a lot of that in, in today’s world. You just do whatever the leader says. There’s not a, uh, a dialogue, uh, to determine different courses of actions and, and what the pros and cons of those different actions are.

Kelly Barner (00:25:17):

And as we saw, we’ve already discussed, if executive leadership isn’t actively involved, we may all be thinking that they’re actively involved in thinking well, they would tell us to stop or change our course of direction or make some kind of change if they felt like we needed it, when in fact we’re kind of waiting for input that isn’t coming because they’re not staying as actively involved is we might think that they are.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:25:42):

And this is another part of, of ownership in the process. You, the executives at the top may not have the point of view that you have. Your point of view may be unique. You may be seeing a problem that no one else can actually observe. So you have to take ownership, and this is part of the communications issue. Everyone has to take ownership of digital transformation and understand, uh, and really value your own, uh, point of view, your own observations and bring them up to the broader team.

Kelly Barner (00:26:28):

Yeah. You really need sort of a 360 degree view. Yeah. You can’t just have that executive view. You can’t just have an individual contributor’s point of view. You need everybody, to your point, actively owning the project and what you’re supposed to get from that investment.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:26:43):

No. Not just, you know, sitting around waiting for somebody to tell me what to do.

Kelly Barner (00:26:47):

Yeah. Speaking of sitting around and waiting for somebody to tell us what to do.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:26:52):

<laugh>

Kelly Barner (00:26:53):

For Scott,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:26:55):

You go, you feel like your boss is looking over your shoulder,

Kelly Barner (00:27:02):

Making sure we’re doing a good job, Kelly, but we’re getting emojis. I think that’s proof that we’re doing a good job. We’re getting happy face emojis. When I start seeing like, like different animals come through, or the upside down, smiley face, I’ll let you know, like, okay, we gotta, we gotta make some changes. Cause this buzz is not gonna be in that 70% failure rate.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:27:23):

<laugh>. No <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:27:25):

All right. So we’ve gone through supply chain key points and challenges we’ve talked about specifically within manufacturing. Let’s apply both of those together to a new partnership and announcement that has recently come out. A product that I think everybody’s going to be able to relate to <laugh>. So we’ve got Kraft Heinz and Microsoft partnering to accelerate supply chain innovation as part of a broader digital transformation project. What about this particular announcement and the partnership that it goes with caught your eye?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:27:58):

Well, really, this article describes a multi-year, year cloud and artificial intelligence agreement between Microsoft and, uh, craft. He, I guess I, I need to, uh, uh, <laugh>, that doesn’t roll off my tongue easily, but, uh, that would focus on joint innovations across operations and product portfolios. This is one of the company’s largest technology investments to date. So, so with Microsoft as Azure, as its preferred cloud platform, Kraft Heights is going to migrate the majority of its global data center assets to as Azure are. And to use SAP software as the enterprise resource planning platform on Azure. Uh, one of their joint goals is the creation of a supply chain control tower. And I’ve, I’ve heard this term used multiple times. And, and this will provide real time visibility into plant operations and automation of its supply chain distribution across craft heights entire 85 product, all across 85 different product categories. Um, and, and this innovation will be powered by artificial intelligence, the internet of things and data analytics capabilities. The partners will also create digital twins of crafts 34 manufacturing facilities in North America. And they’re going to use these digital twins to help test and perfect solutions and processes before applying them on the plant floor. I mean, this is really digital transformation.

Kelly Barner (00:30:05):

This is a huge project. And assuming I read it right, it sounded like craft HEZ is migrating from one or more existing E R P systems to sap. Do, do you think, is that how you read it as well?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:30:21):

Well, I, I’m not sure if they’re migrating from sap, but they’re definitely going from a standalone e r P to a cloud based e R P and E R P for manufacturers. Like the heart of the business. That’s, that’s like the crown jewels. Right. And remember all the arguments about is cloud safe, should we, you know, leverage the cloud? You know, you wanna keep things on premise. Well, craft hez looks like they’re all in the cloud.

Kelly Barner (00:30:52):

They certainly do seem all in. So I’ve never personally been through an E R P implementation. I’ve heard many colorful things about them.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:31:02):

<laugh> horrible words.

Kelly Barner (00:31:04):

I’d be interested in anybody that’s watching in, If you’ve either participated in an implementation or a migration from one e r p to another, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts. Uh, this is a family show, so let’s choose our words carefully. Um, but I’d be, I’d be interested to hear, I, because I know that this is something that certainly in manufacturing, but even beyond manufacturing use of E R P is fairly widespread and it’s an incredibly complicated thing to put in place and to put in place. Right.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:31:37):

Well, you know, um, just, uh, beyond mine, a shameless plug, the recent digital transformation I, uh, interviewed, uh, Stacy Short from, from ibm, and she was talking about the 50 year partnership between IBM and SAP for E R P in the cloud. So, um, is, uh, this is a thing

Kelly Barner (00:32:05):

<laugh> Absolutely. Now, based on what we’ve read, right? We’ve talked about challenges, we’ve talked about key lessons, we’ve talked about things that e EY wants us to keep an eye on. If you were advising Kraft, he, as they start to go through this process, what are a few things that you would encourage them to focus on first, What do they really have to get right? You know, you issue the press release and it’s exciting and it’s good news, and then the work begins. So what are a couple of things that they need to be very aware of to make sure they end up in the 30 and not the 70 with a failed digital transformation project?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:32:41):

That’s a very, very good question. And, uh, it actually does go back to understanding the value of people. Everyone, you know, when something happens in the company, you know, you want to get the person release out and make sure you’re, you know, in your social media so everybody else knows. But oftentimes there is not the same sense of urgency for internal communications telling the people inside the company what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, what’s the timeframe. And it, and it’s critical not only to have the right message internally, but the right messenger internally. So that goes back to having leadership lead. Cause if the, if the team, the internal team doesn’t know what you’re doing, doesn’t know why you’re doing it, and maybe they don’t trust, uh, or don’t believe the messenger, then it doesn’t matter how many press releases you put out, you’ll wind up in that 70%.

Kelly Barner (00:33:52):

Yeah. And we, you know, you certainly don’t want that, especially with a consumer facing Yeah. Company where you have a little bit of a supply chain disruption. People can’t get their stewed tomatoes, their ketchup, their mac and cheese. Right. Next, next thing you know, they’re losing market share. Right.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:34:08):

<laugh>, don’t mess up my mac and cheese

Kelly Barner (00:34:11):

<laugh>. Exactly. Do not mess with the craft mac and cheese dinner. This is very important stuff. But the, the level of sophistication that these companies have, you know, they talk about having an autonomous supply chain and having real time visibility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, this is a real world example of what we were talking about earlier with these supply chains being able to somewhat function on their own. It’s absolutely incredible what’s potentially possible just to put that mac and cheese on our grocery shelf.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:34:40):

Right. And this is another important reason why you have to bring down those, those walls across your ecosystem. Um, oftentimes we are now talking about shifting from offshoring to Onshoring and to Nearshoring where this, this supply chain control tower needs to have visibility into all of those resources so that it can be able to pick and choose in an autonomous manner where to source.

Kelly Barner (00:35:14):

Yeah. Now we have a terrific comment that’s come in from Jerry. Um, when providers offer a control tower solution to manufacturers, a specific and easy to understand value proposition is critical. I have seen control towers simply duplicate processes that are already in place. I think this is such an important point that can’t be made often enough. You are not going to drive change or transformation or roi even if you bring in the best digital solution in the world, if you force it to fit to your existing processes that have just grown up over time. What do you think Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:35:54):

Well, I think it’s important to, uh, really bring out what a control tower is. Imagine it’s, it’s high, right? And it’s overlooking everything that’s happening on the airport, cuz it has these big windows that you can see through, and the people inside have the binoculars and the radios, and they can, they have complete visibility and complete communication to everything that’s happening on the airport. So what a controlled tower is about visibility and communication, <laugh> not, not just duplicating processes.

Kelly Barner (00:36:41):

Yeah. And it’s, it’s so easy because as human beings it’s very hard to change and we probably put too much stock in the way things currently work. Yeah. Whereas if we’re looking to transform, that suggests that there’s a better way to do it or there’s more value to be gained and we have to make the right decisions about what to change. Cuz we won’t, we don’t wanna just change everything for the sake of change, but we do have to be willing to alter and optimize the way that we do things in order to get some of these benefits.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:37:10):

Right. And, and change cannot be successful if it’s done in isolation. It’s not a, uh, you know, pictorial change. It’s a, it’s an informed change.

Kelly Barner (00:37:24):

Absolutely. And we, I think Shelly has captured this perfectly, implementing first e r p systems in entrepreneurial companies is bleep

Kevin L. Jackson (00:37:34):

<laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:37:36):

That’s pretty much what I’ve heard. Like I’ve said, I’ve never experienced an E R P implementation. I’ve heard they’re unbelievably intense. Uh, but this sentiment sort of represents what I’ve heard.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:37:47):

Yep. Uh, I’m glad, uh, I I guess this is one of the things you don’t, don’t wanna have audio on. Right.

Kelly Barner (00:37:54):

<laugh>. So we have one last story today that we’re gonna do, Kevin, and I’m glad we have a little bit of time because you and I talked in advance. You’ve done sort of some of your own reading and research in this area, so this is gonna be a complete turn to something totally different. There was a recent article in the Wall Street Journal about the hidden power of coincidences. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I’m not just picking this sort of personal light reading article out of nowhere. This was in the Wall Street Journal and it really, it captured my imagination and I found myself even a day or two later Wow. Going back and continuing to think about it. Um, I’m someone that a lot of times will think to myself, there’s no such thing as a coincidence. Okay. Um, you know, we, we try to find meaning in things and the way we interpret things that seem like coincidence is certainly varies by person based on your belief system, based on your tradition.

Kelly Barner (00:38:52):

But in this article, there were four different kinds of coincidences. So there’s serendipity, which you can think of as sort of like a happy accident. Something that’s just a surprise, synchronicity where events that are completely disconnected seem related because we’ve associated some kind of meaning between them. Okay. There’s seriality. So an example they gave in the article was if you see a heart shape, you see it in leaves, you see it in clouds, you see it in flowers. If, if your eye is attracted and you see that shape, if you start to associate meaning with that, that’s a type of coincidence. And the fourth one, this is tough sim sim opacity, sim spacity is feeling someone else’s pain or distress or worry from a distance. So having the sense that something that’s happening to you, or the way that you’re feeling indicates that someone that you’re close to, someone that you care about is experiencing an associated sentiment someplace else.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:40:00):

Oh, that’s not, uh, you know, psychic

Kelly Barner (00:40:03):

<laugh>. It could be. It certainly could be. But Kevin, you came up with an article that actually had a few more types of coincidence.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:40:12):

Yeah. So it’s point counterpoint time on the buzz. No <laugh>. But, um, actually Mark Boyd wrote an article in Medium in which he identified seven unique types of coincidences. And I asked the, uh, that team in the back that make this look so good, Katherine and Amanda, and thanks again for all the support you give for us. Um, but, uh, Juan that he ex he extended those four to one, he let’s referred to as deja vu. So this deja vu is when you do something and feel that somehow you did the same thing at a earlier time or in another life. Right. The modern form of this would be a little differently in that you may experience something in the virtual world or online and then later, later on it a crossover and feel like a physical world experience. So, so that’s sort of beja vu.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:41:27):

You, you do something and you think you did it before, but actually it was a experience online, maybe a, a video or, you know, the metaverse <laugh> Metaverse dejavu, uh, <laugh>. And the other one he talked about was called Spotify sync. I mean, I don’t listen to a lot of Spotify. I’m a SX xm. Oh, Pandora kind of prep God. Right. But, but Spotify sync occurs when you may be writing something and as you are writing the words, the song on your playlist reaches the exact same point. So the word that you are writing is the same as what you are hearing. Uh, but he also said there could be more than 11 types. So, uh, you know, he’s kinda, uh, uh, but those I I kind, uh, relate to the deja vu and the Spotify.

Kelly Barner (00:42:30):

No, I do too. Definitely deja vu. That’s funny because I didn’t think about that as a type of coincidence, but it does seem to fit in with all this where you, you give meaning to something. You have sort of this flash moment and you think, Yeah, okay, this is creepy <laugh>. I feel like I’ve been here before. I feel like I’ve seen that before. I definitely, I definitely have dejavu. Do you have dejavu Kevin?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:42:52):

Yeah. All the time. And, uh, and sometimes you really think back and it just feels that you can’t place it. Right. And, uh, that we are operating in, uh, the physical and virtual world so often we’re going back and forth, back and forth. Uh, I’m, I mean, I’m online quite a bit and there’s lots of times people come to up to me and say, Hey, uh, you’re Kevin Jackson. Right? I say, Well, yeah, where do we meet before <laugh>? And, and it’s like, uh, you don’t wanna say I’d never seen you for my life. Right.

Kelly Barner (00:43:36):

<laugh>.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:43:38):

But oftentimes they trying to figure it out. Oh yeah, I saw you on a webinar, or I saw you on the buzz went wink. Um, they, they have seen me, but I’ve never seen them.

Kelly Barner (00:43:54):

Right. No, that’s, that’s interesting. So this is where I can see, I’ve got a couple of comments that have come in, uh, but this is definitely where we wanna hear from the sky boxes. How do you feel about coincidences? Are they real? Uh, how much stock do you put in them? I mean, given that this article was in the Wall Street Journal, I did find it interesting that there was sort of a, a set of professional examples given. So people, if they’re deciding between multiple jobs mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they will look for something of meaning to help be the tiebreaker. Oh, well, the, the person that would be my boss likes the same sports team as me, or the person that would be at the next desk to me grew up in the same town that I did. Little coincidences like that can end up influencing the decisions that we make.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:44:45):

Oh, I do you believe in planned coincidences? Like, um, you know, I admit if I go to a business meeting, you know, one of the first things I will do is look that person up on LinkedIn. Right? Yeah. And, you know, so when you walk in, Hey, you know, we went to the same school. Oh, hey, we lived in the same a coincidence. Those

Kelly Barner (00:45:08):

Are just good people skills. You’re doing your homework

Kevin L. Jackson (00:45:11):

<laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:45:11):

Yeah. Now we do have, Shelly agrees with us that deja vu is wild and she likes serendipity, but she does not believe in coincidences.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:45:23):

Oh, okay.

Kelly Barner (00:45:25):

So in other words, if it happens, it was meant to happen. I mean, I’ll certainly think to myself, Okay, the universe is telling me that I should do this. The universe is telling me I should stop doing that. You even working at home by myself and not being in an office setting, you can get a vibe to the day. Right. I’ll think like the first two calls of the day went really well. Okay. Maybe like the energy is right today to Yeah. Try something that’s a little bit more of a risk. Or if the first two calls of the day are a little bit challenging in a way, I didn’t expect, Okay, maybe I’ll put this riskier email or, or call off for another day.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:46:02):

So here it makes me think, is there a difference between a coincidence and faith? Are they two different things, both sides of the same coin? Um, because when you say coincident, it’s sort of like, you know, there was no hand in it. It just, just happened. But faith is the hand of God or, or some supreme being that made it happen. Well,

Kelly Barner (00:46:30):

And it’s interesting because across these different types of coincidence, if, if we’re using that word, I mean, you can look at it and you can say, Okay, is this thing that I’m associating meaning with, causing me to make a good decision, causing me to take a bad decision? Right. Some of the things seem a little bit more harmless. Like maybe every time I see a cardinal, I associate that with some kind of special meaning, whether it’s someone from my life that’s passed away that’s looking out for me. Uh, certainly even from, um, Oh, what a wonderful life. Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings, we start to associate meaning with these things. Oh my. Do you have a symbol or a sound? Is there, is there anything that you always sort of are, are on the lookout for that you associate meeting with?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:47:18):

No, I try to avoid that. It’s too scary. <laugh> <laugh>,

Kelly Barner (00:47:23):

Let us know if you have something. I mean, certainly in the article it talked about, uh, there was a family, family that saw hearts. There was a hiker that, uh, had a friend he had always hiked with, and they got to the top of one particularly difficult summit. And there was a whole flock or whatever you call a big group of ladybugs. I don’t know what a big group of ladybugs is called. A whole flock or heard of ladybugs.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:47:46):

I heard of lady bugs,

Kelly Barner (00:47:48):

Heard of ladybugs. Yes. C of lady

Kevin L. Jackson (00:47:50):

Bug, of course, <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:47:52):

And then his friend sadly passed away and he was having trouble getting back into hiking. And so he went for a hike. And at every turn in the course, there just happened to be a ladybug. Wow. And he took that as a sign that his friend was with him or that he was doing the right activity. At least that’s a case where it’s it’s a positive association. Right. Not really taking a risk.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:48:16):

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I’ll, uh, try to look for those ums.

Kelly Barner (00:48:21):

We’re gonna have to give you one, Kevin. We’re gonna have something for you.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:48:25):

Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:48:26):

But even you, you maybe if you’re looking to buy a new car, and I don’t know, you’re looking at a Ford Explorer, a Chevy something, and all of a sudden you see them on the road all the time because you’re so much more in tune to it.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:48:37):

Right. Right. I have to look more often be more at tuned to my surroundings.

Kelly Barner (00:48:42):

I know we all have to, like, especially on a Monday, if you think about it, we have this whole week to sort of get in sync with, with all these things. Um, Dr. Rhonda is, is sharing that she just accepted a job. There was a result of two years of coincidences occurring in her life. Uh, she never would’ve taken the job. Wow. Wow. Without some of these other things happening. Um, and she’s moved to a new place. So Dr. Rhonda, first of all, congratulations. Good. Uh, good for you for being willing to do something new and to sort of take some of these other factors into your decision making process. We will, uh, we will hope that you absolutely made the right decision, but thank you. Sharing. Not a coincidence.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:49:26):

Not a coincidence. That’s fake. Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:49:30):

And Amanda, uh, she believes that things are meant to be, or intentional, uh, signs of God’s hand in our lives. Not coincidences. I associate meaning with thoughts, occurrences and gut instincts constantly. Oh, you have to have good gut instincts.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:49:46):

So she, she must feel that, you know, the higher power is making these things happen. That’s the, that’s the fate side, you know, it happens because it’s supposed to happen.

Kelly Barner (00:50:00):

Exactly. Or she’s being shown the way. But we do all have to be very tuned in. I mean, as, as disconnected as it seems. I think if people were a little more plugged into their surroundings, maybe some of the challenges we see even around something like digital transformation,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50:16):

<laugh> would’ve happen. Absolutely. Right.

Kelly Barner (00:50:19):

We have to be looking for the signs.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50:20):

Digital transformation is your fate. <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:50:26):

Not that you’re partial

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50:28):

<laugh>. No, not at all. <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:50:31):

So to that point, and thank you again Dr. Rhonda for sharing your good news. Um, let’s also talk about what you have going on professionally and at digital transformers. Um, Kevin, any good news or, or big goings on that you wanna have the opportunity to share?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:50:48):

Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, really good news. Um, so you may, uh, many of the audience may know that, uh, I recently that this year I was part of a, uh, group of, of, um, 32 authors. And we wrote a book called Quick, Quick Quit List, Q U I T L E S S Quit List. Um, and the book won a reader’s favorite award in the nonfiction anthology category. Um, so, uh, I’m doing a shout out to my 31 co-authors. The book is an honest and thoughtful look at the mental fortitude and dexterity it takes to be an entrepreneur. Um, it’s a USA Today and a Wall Street Journal bestseller, and I’ll ask, I was 14 to put a link in it, but I’m really proud of that. I have one, uh, one chapter in that. But if you are an entrepreneur, and, and that’s a big thing nowadays, you know, pick up quit list.

Kelly Barner (00:51:58):

Now, what was the focus of your chapter?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:52:00):

So my chapter talked about, uh, when I went to the Naval Academy, um, and how I just couldn’t swim <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:52:10):

I no <laugh>,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:52:12):

No. Right. No. I wanted to fly, but I couldn’t swim. And, uh, so, you know, I kept failing all the swim tests, uh, at the Naval Academy. And, uh, my, my best friend who later was my, um, uh, best man at my wedding, um, uh, Admiral Arthur Johnson, um, we were going through the exact same thing, <laugh>. And we took, we took each other out to, uh, dinner down in, uh, Pensacola, going to flight training down in Pensacola. We bought each other a steak dinner <laugh>, because we had both failed. I was <laugh>. So we, uh, remember, you know, sort of sitting on the curb outside of the restaurant. We were just sort of, you know, looking at our wounds. And, uh, he looked at me and he said, I’m not gonna let you quit. If you even think about quitting, I’m going to, uh, a lot of, uh, four other days,

Kelly Barner (00:53:16):

<laugh>, just going back to Shelly’s email earlier, that phrase

Kevin L. Jackson (00:53:19):

Right, right. That phrase. Right. And I looked at him and said, Artie, if you ever think about quitting, I’m going to repeat his words. Right. <laugh>. So it was, it was, it was sort of like, you know, I’m never going to quit. Uh, and that was quickness is about, you know, if you’re an entrepreneur, you have to have a dream and you have to have that faith, uh, that you’re going to succeed. Um, so you, you can’t have quit in you. So that, that’s, that’s what it’s all about.

Kelly Barner (00:53:54):

Did you both end up passing the swimming test eventually?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:53:57):

Yes. We were both wind up passing. We both became aviators. He flew and he, he became an admiral in the Navy. Um, I, I retired after, uh, I was a commander and I, I retired after 24 years. I not, no, uh, 14 years, actually 15 years. Uh, so, uh, we both had long and, uh, uh, great careers. Um, and I guess that’s why I became a entrepreneur. Right. I just, I I love being on the edge. Um,

Kelly Barner (00:54:28):

And because you probably weren’t gonna make it as a swim instructor.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:54:30):

No, no, not, that wasn’t gonna be it. Um, so, uh, uh, you also asked about, uh, what’s happening professionally, Right. So, uh, let’s talk about digital transformers because on the, the, our next episode of Digital Transformers drops on Monday, next Monday, um, and it’s gonna be my interview, uh, with Rob Kushman, the IBM worldwide leader on supply chain transformation. And, uh, Debbie Powell, she’s the digital transformation leader for IBM systems supply chain. So these, uh, awesome, awesome, uh, individuals are going to talk about how smart leaders are turning to a new trifecta of hybrid cloud data and artificial intelligence to navigate their way out of supply chain chaos. So it’s a lot like what, uh, craft heights I is doing.

Kelly Barner (00:55:36):

So if you don’t want that digital transformation project that you’re in the middle of, or that you’re about to begin to fail <laugh>, make sure you’re listening to every single episode or watching every interview of digital transformers that comes out. Um,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:55:48):

So what’s on do p this week?

Kelly Barner (00:55:51):

Ooh, what’s on do p <laugh>? Uh, this Thursday’s episode is actually also potentially looking at a failure that has not yet happened. Oh. Um, I’m taking a look at a movement that’s underway in Europe. Uh, the European Union is looking to put in place what they call the single market emergency instrument. Speaking of things that don’t roll off the tongue <laugh>. Um, but it’s, it’s basically a response to some of the supply chain disruptions that happened during the pandemic. And if another emergency is declared, and there’s a whole process for this, it allows people in Brussels to effectively take control of supply chains and private industry in all of the different member states. So there’s a little bit of controversy there, a little bit of question about overreach. Uh, but I’ve researched that and that’s what I’m digging into on this Thursday’s episode.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:56:43):

Well, you know that, What about national sovereignty? I mean, I know that’s a, that’s a, this sounds like a, a a huge issue.

Kelly Barner (00:56:52):

Yeah. Well, and it’s funny that you say that, Kevin, because when I started reading about it, my first thought was, I’m too American to think this is a good idea. <laugh>. I, I don’t

Kevin L. Jackson (00:57:02):

Want

Kelly Barner (00:57:03):

Somebody in some other country or some other multinational organization making decisions about what happens at my company and my supply chain and my country. And, and I think there are real concerns, partially because of another of the things we talked about today. And that’s information in order to make this work, the level of transparency and information sharing that you need is very high. And you can understand why companies would not wanna necessarily open their books completely, draw back all the curtains so that people in another country outside of their industry can see exactly what’s going on inside their four

Kevin L. Jackson (00:57:37):

Walls. So this is trust, right? You don’t trust your car. Now you’re talking about every nation trusting every other nation with their supply chain. Oh, I know. <laugh>,

Kelly Barner (00:57:49):

How could it possibly go wrong?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:57:52):

Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:57:53):

So as we start to, to wind down our, This was a fast hour, Kevin. We’re not

Kevin L. Jackson (00:57:59):

Getting that Ali.

Kelly Barner (00:58:00):

No, almost. We’re getting close, but we’re getting great reviews from an important place. Uh, so we’ve got, um, great thoughts. I’m so glad that, uh, that you think we’re doing a good job, Scott. Great. Better look out

Kevin L. Jackson (00:58:14):

<laugh>,

Kelly Barner (00:58:15):

The power of the case.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:58:16):

I don’t know, to let us back on again. <laugh> <laugh>

Kelly Barner (00:58:21):

And we’ve definitely got some, um, things. Thank you so much, Catherine. Amanda, um, they’re managing production behind the scenes for us today. Yes, definitely check out your book and we’ve got all kinds of congratulations. We’ve got Congratulations from Shelly, we’ve got congratulations from Dr. Rhonda. Oh,

Kevin L. Jackson (00:58:40):

Thank you. Absolutely.

Kelly Barner (00:58:41):

Thank you everybody. Check that out and then let us know what you think. Love to hear other people’s thoughts on books. Uh, so Kevin, this was really fun. We should absolutely do this again.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:58:53):

Absolutely. I love this.

Kelly Barner (00:58:55):

So no coincidences, if we’re back again is because we did a good job. Um, but I would

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:01):

Like to coincidence, our name starts with the same letter

Kelly Barner (00:59:05):

Indeed.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:06):

<laugh>, that’s fake

Kelly Barner (00:59:07):

In Indeed. They do. That is fake. We were meant to host this session together.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:11):

<laugh> <laugh>.

Kelly Barner (00:59:12):

Awesome. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for being here. You mentioned digital Transformers. If people want to connect with you, wanna learn more about your book, book, what is the best central place to send them?

Kevin L. Jackson (00:59:23):

So, um, I’m everywhere on social media, uh, LinkedIn, uh, and, uh, Twitter, Kevin underscore Jackson, or I’m on Instagram and, and, uh, Facebook, uh, digital Transformers. Um, and or you can just meet me here the third Monday of every month on the best

Kelly Barner (00:59:45):

<laugh>. Awesome. And similar to Kevin, if you’re looking to find me someplace I’m not hard to find. LinkedIn is a good place to start. Uh, but thank you so much to the, the production team, Amanda and Catherine, thank you to Scott and for everybody else who tuned in. Uh, we appreciate you, whether you were with us live or whether you’re listening later on demand, we’re glad that you decided to spend part of the first day of your week with us

Kevin L. Jackson (01:00:11):

And thank you in Indonesia for staying up.

Kelly Barner (01:00:14):

That’s right. I know some night hours. Um, but it’s tradition, Kevin, we gotta close the show the way that the big boss man always does. So <laugh>, do good, give forward and be the change that’s needed. On that note, I’m Kelly Barner. I’m joined by my co-host Kevin Al Jackson. Thank you so much for being with us for the buzz, and have a terrific rest of your day.

Intro/Outro (01:00:37):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain Now, community. Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain now, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain. Now.