Chris Barnes (00:06):

Hey, it’s Chris. The supply chain doctor and host of supply chain is boring. Over the years. I’ve interviewed some of the brightest minds and successful leaders in the world of supply chain management. In May, 2020. I sat down with Ken Ackerman to learn more about him, collect a little supply chain management history. After our discussion. Ken told me about a similar interview he had with Dr. James stock many years prior, and the related work Dr. Stock was doing in November, 2020. I was able to catch up with Dr. James stock to learn about his work as an academic in the field of transportation logistics. And now what we call supply chain manage ment. Jim was well connected to many of the original academic thought leaders in the space. Jim did interviews with many of these original thought leaders and shared them with me. The list includes Ken Ackerman, Don Bauer, SOS James Hasket, bud littleand John Langley, Jr. Tom Menser, Tom SP and Daniel Ren to carry on the great work started by Dr. Jim stock. I’m dusting off these interviews and bringing them to you on supply chain is boring.

James Stock (01:13):

Good afternoon. My name is James stock. The Frank Harvey endowed professor of marking university of south Florida. We’re here today to conduct an interview with one of the luminaries in the discipline of warehousing logistics and supply chain management. The purposes of this interview are several first and perhaps foremost is to get to know the personal side of one of the leading logistics and supply chain practitioners. The person who’s had significant influence on their profession. We often read the person’s books and journal articles, listen to their presentations at academic or professional meetings, and sometimes even have individual discussions with them at various events and venues. However, we rarely get to know the person beyond the professional aspects of their careers in the field of literature and art researchers often consider the what, why, how who, and when of a particular book or painting short story poem. And so on, we speculated what might have motivated the writer or artist to write the book or paint the painting to determine the message or story of the text or art and the writers or the artist’s perception of the contributions of their work in the same way through, in other interviews that will be conducted of leading business scholars and practitioners as the late Paul Harvey.

James Stock (02:30):

So often expressed, we will attempt to get the rest of the story. These taped interviews will hopefully serve as supporting material for various university courses where the various works of these, a exhibits and practitioners may be discussed. There will be a significant impact in courses where history and theory are being examined. Since these individuals contributed extensively to that history and theory, each interview is based on a set of structured questions using an interview guide. Of course, the interviewees responses are spontaneous. They may lead into other questions related to those responses. However, the general format for this and other interviews that will be conducted in the future will be similar. The hope that audiences who view these interviews will get a broader and richer view of the people and events that have shaped their disciplines. We hope that you will learn from what will be said and discussed during these interviews and be able to more fully appreciate and understand the significant contribution made by these luminaries in the field.

James Stock (03:30):

Let’s begin by introducing our distinguished guests. Kenneth B Ackerman is presently present of the Ackerman company, a management, an advisory service specializing in warehousing and logistics consulting located in Columbus, Ohio. Ken Ackerman’s name is synonymous with the discipline of warehousing. He’s been called by some, the warehousing guru by others. Mr. Warehousing, before entering the consulting field, Ken was the CEO of distribution, Inc. A highly successful public warehousing company that is now part of Excel logistics. Ken graduated from Princeton university with a bachelor of arts degree and completed the MBA degree at Harvard university. He then enlisted the us army where he served as a buyer at the Walter Reed medical facility. At the time Ken’s father ran a small warehousing and trucking company, and Ken joined him in the business. Once his two year military commitment was completed, he has spent his entire career in the warehousing and logistic profession.

James Stock (04:32):

He has written extensively on the subject he’s editor and publisher of warehousing forum, a monthly subscription newsletter. He has also written several books used by warehousing and logistics professionals, including auditing warehousing performance, warehousing tips, warehousing, profitably, and fundamentals of supply chain management. Co-authored with art band photograph as a practitioner, Ken has taken time out of his very busy schedule to write numerous articles on topics of warehousing logistics and supply chain management, which appeared in the Harvard business review, New York times, many logistics and supply chain, professional journals and magazines. Ken has been very active in a number of professional organizations. He was a founding member of the warehousing education research council or work in 9 77 was heavily involved in the national council, physical distribution CPDM, who later became the council of logistics management cm and is now called the council supply chain management professionals. CS CMP.

James Stock (05:37):

Ken was honored by both of these organizations, work honored Ken with lifetime and membership in the organization. In 2002, he received a distinguish service award from CS EMP for his career achievements. And he was president of that organization. He also received a distinguished service and leadership award from the international warehouse logistics association. The I w L a in 1999 in recognition of his professional achievements and leadership. Ken has been recognized with honorary life membership in the Ohio warehouseman association. He’s also been a former director of the American warehouse association in activities. Ken has been chapter chairman for the young president’s organization, the YPO former officer of Columbus association for the performing arts and past president of opera Columbus. He currently serves as chair for Vistage international, a group that provides counseling and interaction with chief executives in many different fields. Ken is very active, both domestically and internationally and lecturing teaching and consulting.

James Stock (06:42):

He is fluent in Spanish, which enables him to lecture and consult in that language. His many clients include firms such as general electric Nissan corporation, Naman cargo of Israel, trans warrants and Chile, tres L Italy, and many other international companies throughout his career. Ken has been an educator leader and developer of talent in the profession. His 50 plus years in the profession have been characterized as one of giving to others. It’s our distinct pleasure to get to know the personal side of this man. So we can more fully appreciate his sign, forget professional contributions and achievements. So Ken, welcome. Glad to have you with us today. Nice to

Ken Ackerman (07:25):

Be here.

James Stock (07:26):

So let’s start with some basic questions about, uh, your life. Um, when and where were you born?

Ken Ackerman (07:33):

Well back early in the last century in Cleveland, Ohio?

James Stock (07:37):

Well, I’m sure wasn’t the last century. It had to be in the 19, well, that is last century now. <laugh> but, uh, was there anything in your childhood that shaped your, you know, your present personality that you have?

Ken Ackerman (07:51):

Well, sure. I grew up in a small town in Northwestern, Ohio spent much of my childhood trying to get out of that town. <affirmative> uh, I think my high school years were very much shaped by four years at a wonderful military school that I remained very close to Culver in Indiana mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, and I remained something of an ardent RIS in that I think that military training is, is very good for people. So that perhaps changed

James Stock (08:21):

My life. Interesting. I have visited at, uh, Culver school. Oh, good. Having been at south bend Notre Dame for a while. Oh, well,

Ken Ackerman (08:29):

Yes. Um, it’s just down the

James Stock (08:31):

Road. Yes. In terms of your personalities or a particular personality trait that, uh, perhaps drove you to succeed uh <affirmative> as well as you have, uh, done in your profession.

Ken Ackerman (08:44):

Well, I never really wanted to be in a family business. Uh, I, I went into it reluctantly. I was determined to go beyond just being the sob son of boss, uh, and to paddle my own canoe. I was lucky to have a father who was very happy to step aside and let me make all kinds of mistakes. But, uh, I, as I developed an independence and a confidence in running a company, uh, it, it was a great start. And starting in that, I look back on it, starting in the family business, turned out to be a pretty good thing to do.

James Stock (09:20):

Interesting. Do you think there are any personality traits that have held you back or impeded you in any way?

Ken Ackerman (09:26):

Oh, I probably as a kid and maybe as a young adult people thought I talked too much, maybe. Uh, and I think I talked too much and didn’t listen enough, but, uh, no, I don’t think there were major impediments.

James Stock (09:39):

Okay. Do you have any, you know, specific memories that you have never forgotten from your childhood?

Ken Ackerman (09:47):

Well, as I said, I wanted to get out of the small town. I grew up in, wanted to go someplace bigger, uh, wanted to be building, uh, wanted to be with a company that was growing and to be able to, to oversee change and growth. And I think I had that ambition, uh, while I was pretty young.

James Stock (10:08):

As you were growing up, how large was that town? Did you refer to as small, 50,000, 50,000. Okay.

Ken Ackerman (10:14):

Smaller today than a, was that okay?

James Stock (10:17):

<laugh> how would your parents describe you as a

Ken Ackerman (10:20):

Child? Probably the kid would talk too much and, uh, thought he was pretty smart. Okay. Smarter than he was <laugh>.

James Stock (10:27):

Okay. Any other comments they would if they were here today? And I could ask them that question. Anything else they would say about you?

Ken Ackerman (10:35):

No, I’m not sure. Probably amazed that I didn’t get into any more trouble than I did. <laugh>.

James Stock (10:41):

Okay. Now, um, think of your growing up in, in this small town. Um, let’s talk a little bit about your education. Okay. In the secondary school, where did you attend, um, school? Both, uh, from grade on, through high school?

Ken Ackerman (10:58):

Well, I was in public schools, uh, in, in Lima, Ohio up until the eighth grade, I went to Culver in the ninth grade, spent four years. There actually went to camp at Culver earlier than that. So that I had a taste of the school as a camper in the summertime, which made me want to go there in the wintertime. And, uh, I learned at the dining room table that I needed to get out of town because the public school system was considered to be among the worst in Ohio at that time. So I was strongly motivated to go away to school. Most of my friends went away to school. Some of ’em went to and east to, uh, Western reserve at Hudson Ohio. Those were the two closest boarding schools to the town I lived in. So, uh, it was wonderful to go away. And, uh, as I look back on it, it was, uh, a very fortunate experience that I was able to do that.

James Stock (11:56):

Okay. And I assume most military academies and schools, um, you were there full time and went home only on vacation. That’s right. Holidays,

Ken Ackerman (12:05):

Right? Yeah.

James Stock (12:06):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> did you, uh, plan any sports teams while you were in

Ken Ackerman (12:10):

School? That was one of my great frustrations, Jim. I, I didn’t realize it until much later that, uh, I was cursed with no hand to eye coordination. Could never play any ball game. Uh, just, I mean, I couldn’t even play croquet <laugh> even a slow ball. I can’t handle. So what I did do is I ran cross country <affirmative> and, uh, I was in the, uh, horse unit called the black horse troop at Culver and I loved riding and still do, uh, so that I guess, horses and running were the two things that okay. Kept me busy.

James Stock (12:47):

Very good. What was your favorite sport? Uh, either as a spectator or participant? Well,

Ken Ackerman (12:53):

Was a part participant. I, I loved running. Uh, I still pace walk. I used to jog until my knees started to kick up and, uh, I ran cross country at Culver and I ran cross country in college as a spectator sport. I think football has always been it. Okay.

James Stock (13:11):

Well, you’re a good area for football here in Culver. Yes, indeed. For sure. Or, um, were you involved in any kind of, um, school clubs or organizations?

Ken Ackerman (13:21):

Well, I’m hazy about high school years about clubs. I, there wasn’t Culver, wasn’t a big club school. Uh, I was interested in dramatics, got into to a little bit of that. Uh, when I went to college, I went to a non fraternity school. So we had eating clubs and I enjoyed that life tremendously. The whole atmosphere of eating clubs, I thought was much better than fraternities. Oh.

James Stock (13:51):

Now were there any, for example, honor society or, um, yearbook or those kinds of things, government, student government that you were involved in?

Ken Ackerman (14:03):

Well, I, I, uh, had a leadership rank, uh, at Culver, so I guess I was a platoon leader, something like that and, uh, was in the come loudest society, which is an honor, I guess it is, uh, trying to think about clubs. I think I’ve pretty well covered it, uh,

James Stock (14:28):

Good. There was there a teacher somewhere from first day through 12th that, uh, and it could be you more than one, had a significant influence on you.

Ken Ackerman (14:40):

Yes, at Culver, uh, there was an English teacher and, uh, I was part of a, uh, an honors class in English that did advanced work and did a lot of writing. And that teacher remains in my memory as a guy who really inspired me, uh, and, and gave me a love of reading and writing.

James Stock (15:00):

And how did he do that? How did he inspire

Ken Ackerman (15:02):

You? I think with mirrors <laugh>, I’m not sure. I, I only know that and I wasn’t the only one, he was one of these guys who could just absolutely, uh, amaze his students. I think most of his students would’ve, would’ve given him the grade of the best teacher they ever had. And he was a great discussion leader. Uh, our classes were not lectures, they were discussions and he was fun to be in those classes. You,

James Stock (15:31):

You think he might have influenced you in terms of you do lots of lectures and discussions? Absolutely. Did. Now, how would you, um, uh, describe yourself as a student socially and academically?

Ken Ackerman (15:46):

Well, I, I got along alright. Academically the higher I went, the less distinguished I was by the time I was in graduate school, the chance to be, uh, in, in the Boston neighborhood with all the girls who had been lacking at both Princeton and Culver, uh, interfered with my academic performance to some extent, but I did manage to get the degree, uh, and, and Princeton at the time I attended being a single sex school was described by one of my friends as the largest non-sectarian monastery in America. <laugh>

James Stock (16:24):

Interesting. I had heard that. So that’s, that’s new

Ken Ackerman (16:26):

Information. Well, it’s, co-ed now I can’t say that.

James Stock (16:31):

All right. So you mentioned cross country in college, in high school. Yes. Uh, were there any other activities in college that you were involved in? Uh,

Ken Ackerman (16:40):

I got involved a little bit in dramatics in college. Uh, I got this great interest in Latin America there. My major was Latin American studies. I managed to wangle a fellow ship to go down to Mexico and write about the film industry in Mexico. Uh, undergrads at Princeton liberal arts undergrads have to write a senior thesis of at least 40,000 words. And my thesis was about the movies of Mexico with a lot of fun to do that.

James Stock (17:11):

And that’s where you learned the Spanish and have kept since,

Ken Ackerman (17:14):

Yes, I, I got fairly fluent in school years once, uh, with a student group that placed each youngster with a family. So you lived with a family in a small town. And, uh, when I came home from that, I was almost totally fluent, so, and I never quite lost it. Good.

James Stock (17:33):

Good. Did you earn any honors in, um, in college?

Ken Ackerman (17:39):

Not that I can recall. <laugh> I stayed in and graduated and got into the grad school of my choice. So that’s, that was,

James Stock (17:46):

That’s the most important now an interesting one in, um, as you were growing up and this could be in secondary school or college, did you have any person that, uh, was what you might call a teen idol could be a sports figure, uh, could be, uh, government political figure. Movie star

Ken Ackerman (18:10):

Might surprise you, but the picture on my desk, teenage kids of a pinup picture was a soprano with a metropolitan opera with, I don’t know, I haven’t heard of her for many years. She was a very pretty girl and, and that was my pinup picture.

James Stock (18:28):

And you ever met her, did you ever meet? Oh my

Ken Ackerman (18:30):

Yes. I had met her. Oh, sure.

James Stock (18:33):

Okay. Very good. So was it an autographed photo? Oh, yes, indeed. Oh, that’s the best kind to have. Um, did they have any influence on your career or was that just no. No,

Ken Ackerman (18:43):

Not really. I think

James Stock (18:45):

Now when you were a teenager, uh, so this would’ve been during, or, uh, secondary school years and maybe early in your college years, what would people find surprising about you that they might not know about you now?

Ken Ackerman (19:03):

I’m not sure that I really don’t know. I, I’m not sure how I surprise people, uh, may maybe, uh, that I have a few more sides to me than some people would expect of a business guy. You know, the, the language skills sometimes is a surprise. I’m never quite sure what surprises people, but, uh, just last week, uh, I had fun, surprising somebody because I went into a, uh, store to buy something. It was all populated by Ukrainians and I wished them a good evening in Russian at the end. And I watched the eyes go up, but, you know, Russian <laugh>, it’s just that much, but it was one of the languages I studied as an undergrad.

James Stock (19:50):

Oh, interesting. Now, in terms of, uh, going to Princeton, um, how were you able to go there? Did you get scholarships? Did your parents paid? Did you work? What combination? No,

Ken Ackerman (20:02):

I, uh, my, my parents were able to do that. I, I wasn’t on a scholarship. Uh, I felt lucky to be accepted. That was, uh, the, the place I wanted to go. I would’ve been disappointed if I hadn’t made it. Uh, the year that I was accepted, I think I was one of six or seven from Culver who went there, which was highly unusual to have that many from one school go there, but, uh, I was accepted and, uh, it was a great experience to be there.

James Stock (20:32):

Yeah. And Princeton consistently rates in top five colleges, universities in the us.

Ken Ackerman (20:37):

Well, I will confess that it didn’t with me by senior year, primarily because of what I joked about that being the largest nonsectarian monastery in the world, I felt isolated was glad to leave.

James Stock (20:51):

So did you live, uh, in dormitories off campus? No. No. You lived in dorms for the entire program? Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, why did you decide to attend college? Was that expected? It was

Ken Ackerman (21:07):

Expected. My, my parents, uh, my father never finished college, but my, my parents certainly expected me to be in college. And, uh, so it never really was a topic of discussion. I just, it was assumed I would

James Stock (21:23):

Do it. Were you as excited as they were to go or were they, yes, I really

Ken Ackerman (21:27):

Was.

James Stock (21:28):

Sure. Now, were you the first generation of your family to receive a college degree?

Ken Ackerman (21:32):

No. I said my mother, uh, I think may have gotten a masters or, or almost got a masters. My father was a college dropout, but I think spent two or three years in college. So they may have been first, but I wasn’t.

James Stock (21:51):

So you mentioned your emphasis in college was primarily Latin American kinds of studies, any other concentrations or minors that you

Ken Ackerman (21:58):

Took? I studied two other languages, Russian and Italian. And, and that was just plain out of curiosity. Uh, there was a war on when I was in college and people don’t realize it today, but in the beginning of the cor war, it looked like world war II. And, and I think most of us were wondering first, would we even be able to finish? And second, uh, when finished, uh, how soon would we go into the military? Because we, there was a draft that, so my decision to, uh, start studying Russian was a strategic decision. I didn’t think that the military would have any interest at all in somebody that knew Spanish there, millions of people in this country, no Spanish, not so many, no Russian that’s true. So I, I, uh, quickly jumped into it. And in fact, because it was too late to get into a university course, I started out with a tutor, which was a great experience, uh, a Russian born lady whose father had been the Imperial grapher to the czar. He, and she didn’t know much English. She, she wanted to, to talk French, which I didn’t know. So she said, then I teach you Russian in Russian <laugh>, which is what she did.

James Stock (23:22):

Okay. Very nice. Um, with that emphasis on languages and Latin American studies, what, uh, apart from the Spanish that you still use utilize, when you go to south America, other Spanish speaking areas, uh, are there other things that you learned or acquired in college that you use in your profession? Well,

Ken Ackerman (23:44):

I’ve used all three of those languages. I, I did a consulting project in Moscow some years ago for an American owned warehousing company. Now my Russian is much too Resty to carry on a decent conversation, but I can understand a lot. So, uh, and of course the client for American, but, uh, they asked me to do a little, uh, workshop for the line supervisors and, uh, and with an

James Stock (24:13):

Interpreter. But, uh, when they talked among themselves, I could pick up a little, you know, I, I it’s, you, you lose the ability to speak before you lose the ability to under stand and, uh, as both a tourist and a worker in Russia, uh, I’m not afraid to wander around anywhere. I can talk my way back, find out where I’m supposed to be, and I can read the signs, can read the alphabet. Now we’ve mentioned earlier in your introduction that you’ve also done work in Italy. Uh, do you still retain some level of, uh, fluency

Ken Ackerman (24:50):

In Italian? It comes out half Spanish and half Italian, but I could make myself understood. Yes. Okay.

James Stock (24:57):

Now did, um, you know, with your father in the warehousing distribution business, um, that’s probably where most of your influence came from to go into that career yourself, or were there others that may have influenced you?

Ken Ackerman (25:13):

Well, I was fortunate in school years, uh, to get summer jobs first in Chicago with a trucking company. And that, I think I was 19. Nobody would’ve hired me, but my father was a friend of the head of this company. And he took me in, I think, as an active friendship. But the one that I got on my own between years in grad school was to work for Ryder back in the days when, when Jim Ryder was still there. And that, that was a great experience. Both of ’em were great experiences. Uh, the first one in Chicago, that fellow was a, uh, Harvard B school grad. And I think probably persuaded me that I should try to go to school there mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, Ryder was a vastly different environment and, uh, very much of a learning experience to, to be working in Florida for a fast growth company.

James Stock (26:10):

And what kinds of things do you think you learned at the, in the rider experience that, uh, you’ve influenced you a lot and you’ve kept on?

Ken Ackerman (26:21):

Well, at least at that time, and I have no idea where rider is today. I, I know Nova there now. I don’t think, uh, it was pretty turbulent, I think because of fast growth people were coming and going, uh, and, uh, as, as opposed to relative stability in Chicago, uh, it, it was an unsettled environment. I spent about half of the summer in Miami and half of it in Tampa, so that I saw different parts of the state of Florida, which is as you know, very different from Ohio. Yes <laugh>. So it was all just part of growing up, uh, in both jobs, I was primarily doing sales work and, uh, I learned a lot about the truck leasing business, which was the part of the business that I was interested in and thought I might be getting into at that time. My father’s business was more heavily involved in truck than it was in warehousing. Okay.

James Stock (27:27):

Then once you graduated from Princeton, um, did you go directly on to Harvard or? Yes. Okay. It was after Harvard that the military sprees yeah. Occurred

Ken Ackerman (27:37):

At that time. I think it’s fair to say that many people who were students wanted to main students as long as possible, but the minute they were no longer students, they would be in uniform.

James Stock (27:49):

So I, they was called a two S deferment.

Ken Ackerman (27:52):

I don’t remember what it was called, but all I know is I managed to, uh, uh, stay in school right up through getting a master’s degree.

James Stock (28:02):

And so you went in, did you enlist or were you drafted? Uh,

Ken Ackerman (28:06):

I enlisted in the reserves about two days before I was gonna get drafted. Okay.

James Stock (28:13):

And how did you get the assignment at, uh, Walter re

Ken Ackerman (28:17):

I, I wish I knew it was, uh, it was a wonderful assignment. I have no idea. I have some idea how it happened because the army at that time had what they called the scientific and professional personnel program, where they would grab people who had certain advanced degrees and put ’em in skills jobs, where they could use the skills. One of my Harvard classmates with the, of private first class or corporal or something was functioned as treasurer of Walter Reed. He didn’t have the title, but he did the work.

James Stock (28:54):

Interesting. And so while you were at Walter Reed, you were a buyer mm-hmm <affirmative>. What kinds of things did

Ken Ackerman (29:00):

You buy? Oh, I bought books, office supplies. I, I was buyer is sort of the lowest level. Uh, I couldn’t sign for the United States that test, and then you have to be a contracting officer. So I worked for a contracting officer and I would get all the stuff together and hand it to her and she’d sign it. I did all the work, but I wasn’t allowed to. Okay. <laugh> I wasn’t allowed to represent the United States. I was lucky to have a wonderful boss who wanted to be sure that I really learned what I was doing instead of just doing it. And he said, you got a lot of time on your hands, so why don’t you take all these manuals home and read ’em and then we’re gonna discuss ’em cuz I wanna be sure, you know, what you’re doing.

James Stock (29:41):

And that was, it was fun to work for a guy like that. So in those two years, uh, what was your rank when you left corporal? They called it specialist third class. Same thing. Okay. Yeah. Uh, did you form any long lasting relationships in the military? Uh, one my wife. Wow. <laugh> okay. We’ll get to her a little bit in terms of your, your family. Uh, what was your fondest memory of the military? Oh, I think meeting my wife easily save that thought for later. Okay.

Chris Barnes (30:14):

Supply chain is boring as part of the supply chain. Now network the voice of supply chain, interested in sponsoring this show or others to help you get your message out. Send a note to Chris supply chain now.com. We can also help with world class supply chain, education and certification workshops for you or your team. Thanks for listening. And remember supply chain is boring.