Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from Those Making Global Business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, hey. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are, Scott Luton and Greg White here with you on Supply Chain. Now welcome to today’s show, Greg. How are we doing today?

Greg White (00:41):

Pretty good. Pretty darn good, Scott, how are we doing?

Scott Luton (00:44):

Doing wonderful. Uh, the great weather continues big week this week. And you know what? We are spiking the football with one of our favorite and more importantly, our global audience’s. FAMs, global FAMs. Favorite guest, Rick McDonald. Huh? Special, special.

Greg White (01:01):

Look at you getting all whatever that’s called, <laugh>. Um, whether it’s not great everywhere, by the way. That’s a good point. Your country is in an incredible blizzard, but you know, this is sort of, you almost hate to let the word out to people up north because we’re overcrowded as it is in the south, right?

Scott Luton (01:21):

That is right. That is right. So, I’m glad you didn’t say anything to anyone listening.

Greg White (01:25):

All good to them up there. Hang tight. That’s right. Um, you know, it’ll, it’ll pass through and they’re built for that up there. All those Vikings and Swedes and all that.

Scott Luton (01:40):

Hmm. Well bear down, uh, Greg, one of our favorite sayings around here, uh, this too shall pass. It may pass like a kidney stone, but this too shall pass. So, uh, but wherever you are, hey, take comfort in the next hour. Cause as I let the cat outta the bag, Greg already big, big show. Today, we’re featuring a rock and roll star in global supply chain, global business, really in Rick McDonald with the Clorox company, who’s gonna be speaking to, uh, the central question of, Hey, what keeps chief supply chain officers like him up at night? Greg should be an in intriguing conversation, right?

Greg White (02:17):

<laugh>. Yeah. I can’t even imagine what this list could be. So I think you limited him to like three or four or five, right? Something like that.

Scott Luton (02:24):

We would take as much <laugh>, we’d take as much time as you’d give us, right?

Greg White (02:28):

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, and, uh, you know, with the disruption and, you know, the fact that supply chain is in the forefront, we used to be able to hide a little bit, right? Uh, but, and, and now everyone either understands it or has an opinion about it, right? Whether they understand it or not. So, um, it’s just, it’s a constant discussion right now, and as it should be, and as it should have always been.

Scott Luton (02:56):

So true. So true. I couldn’t have said it better myself, as usually is the case. But, uh, hey, big thanks to we, let’s, let’s shoot right before we bring on Rick. Uh, big thanks to both Amanda, who’s with us here today, behind the scenes, and Catherine as always, uh, also behind the scenes, Chantel and Clay, really the whole team to help make, uh, production happen here. Uh, and folks, as you, as you chime in today, we welcome, we want to hear from you as well. Let us know where you’re tuned in from. As always, we love connecting the dots there. So, Gregory, yes. Are we ready to bring on our dear friend, Rick?

Greg White (03:31):

Yes.

Scott Luton (03:32):

Let, let’s do it. Let’s get the work, buckle up and get the work. Let’s welcome in officially, Rick McDonald, senior Vice President and Chief Supply Chain Officer with the Clorox Company. Hey. Hey, Rick. How you doing,

Rick McDonald (03:47):

Scott? I’m doing great. I’m doing great. How are you today?

Scott Luton (03:50):

We’re doing wonderful. Much better. Much better now, and Greg, but this is one of our favorite shows. I think Rick’s been with us, uh, 3, 4, 5 times now. Huh?

Greg White (04:00):

Is it that many times? Yeah, it’s, I

Rick McDonald (04:02):

Think so, yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you guys having me back. This is exciting. Yeah,

Scott Luton (04:06):

We had to work through his agent as usual, and, and your agent was very gracious, but, uh, great to have you back Anne, please,

Greg White (04:13):

Too. Thank you,

Scott Luton (04:15):

<laugh>. That’s right.

Greg White (04:17):

So,

Scott Luton (04:19):

Uh, max, great to see you, uh, there in Indianapolis via LinkedIn. Great to have you here today. Anne, Leah Luton. Hey mom. Uh, who is a big fan of, of your products, Rick, and excited to hear from Rick today. She, so great to see you. Okay. So Greg and Rick, I’ve got a great fun warmup question here today. One that, that, uh, means a little more to me than many others today, folks, is National Hospitality Workers Appreciation Day. Now we gotta level on those folks every day, all day, for sure. But, you know, the last few years it’s been really a tough go for folks across the hospitality industry. So I wanna start with, um, you know, uh, I’ve bartended, I’ve bused tables, I’ve waited tables. I’ve done a lot of that stuff through my 10 years in college. Um, but Rick and Greg, Rick, I’ll start with you. Have you ever had a, had a role in hospitality?

Rick McDonald (05:16):

N not a, not a true hospitality role? I mean, you know, my first job was, uh, my grass cutting business. I delivered papers for the Cleveland Press for a couple years. Um, my first job with a corporation was at McDonald’s. And so I think that’s really the closest I’ve come to being in the hospitality area. Um, I was behind the grill, but obviously my work and my colleagues work was really important in making sure that people who came into our restaurant got what they wanted and it was cookwell.

Scott Luton (05:44):

Okay. I love that. Uh, Rick, a new little wrinkle that we learned about Rick MacDonnell. Greg, I can’t wait to hear your answer here.

Greg White (05:52):

Yeah. So I had always thought of the hospitality industry as re as hotels, but if you include restaurants, then yes. Um, waited tables, um, and, and bartended, and I am a firm believer that everyone should do that job. It is a combination of pleasing, uh, your, your guests and advocating for them. And advocating is, uh, that removes a lot of profanity and violence. <laugh>, because basically you go, I mean, seriously, you have to come out with a smile, but you go back into the kitchen and you’re like, where is my, you know, dish, right? <laugh>, uh, these, these people are getting antsy. It’s getting cold. Um, so you, and then you have to immediately, when you walk through those doors, put on that smile and, and, uh, be cordial. Yes. And, and own it. That’s the other thing that I learned, right? Somebody, I, I, this is one of my pet peeves, is when someone comes out of the kitchen and says, they messed it up, right? Sorry that they messed up your meeting. Right? But it’s kind of a team effort, isn’t it? Because you brought it to the table when it was messed up. So there, as someone told me once, and I sometimes graciously educate servers on, um, you all, are they, there is no they Right. <laugh> you are all we,

Scott Luton (07:22):

Yes. And, and you know that, that’s so true. Beyond that’s, I think that’s a wonderful universal truth, Greg.

Greg White (07:28):

I think that’s why it applies so much to people in business, right? Yeah. Is you, you learn to own it, and you learn to, um, you know, work as a team and you know, you have to, you have to take your part in your accountability in, in it.

Rick McDonald (07:42):

Yeah. I, the way I say it is, we are they and they are us. They’re, they’re anybody else at the end of the finger. It’s, it’s, it’s all of us,

Greg White (07:48):

Right?

Scott Luton (07:50):

All right. I gotta write that down. We are they and they are us. What a wonderful, uh, man, right outta the gate. Both of y’all are on fire, Rick. I love that t-shirt ism already. Hey, really quick before we move forward into kind of the core question Rick’s gonna share in perspective, I wanna recognize a few folks out here, uh, Michael Dillon. Hello from Orlando, Florida. Beautiful. Orlando, Florida. Great to see you here. Uh, Amanda says, everyone agrees with Greg. Everyone should work in food service or retail. And that’s coming from a 15 year retail veteran as Amanda spent a group of of time. Uh, and

Greg White (08:23):

Ashley don’t even think about re I mean, retail is not classically hospitality, but wow, what a tough gig that is too. And foolishly, some of us have done both,

Scott Luton (08:31):

Right?

Greg White (08:32):

I would suggest to pick one or the other.

Scott Luton (08:35):

<laugh>, um, and Ashley tuned in <laugh>, Ashley’s tune in from, uh, Tucson, Arizona, and she’s worked in hospitality industry for 10 years and agrees with Greg and Amanda that everyone should do it. Indeed. Okay. We are. They, they are us. What a great right outta the gate, uh, Rick, Greg and I are really excited to have you back. And speaking to this question, you know, when I, when I shared with my mom, frankly, I was talking to her this morning and I was talking about you and, and how she had seen you previously and, and mentioned your title to her, my mom, and not, not to pick on mom or anyone else, but she was like, oh, I didn’t realize, you know, supply, they’ve got chief supply chain officers these days. I said, yeah, mom, the last few years I been a big trend as, as supply chain’s been brought into the C-suite, and it’s really been some of the silver lining. Uh, of course it started before the pandemic, but, uh, it’s a big thing now. Uh, and she wrote that note down and, and was tuning in here today. So I wanna start Rick, um, and with that central question of what is keeping chief supply chain officers up at night, Rick, what’s number one?

Rick McDonald (09:38):

Well, um, it’s actually a pretty long list, Scott. You know, we only have time for just a few <laugh>

Greg White (09:46):

Talking about that before we brought you on. Yeah. Maybe at the top.

Rick McDonald (09:51):

Yeah. We could spend a whole show talking about inflation. We could spend a whole show talking about E S G. Yep. I, I’m gonna, I’m gonna start with, um, something that is not as widely talked about right now, but it’s certainly real for everybody in supply chain and actually a lot of other industries as well. And that’s what I’m gonna call the workforce crisis. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I, I would say that’s, that’s number one for, uh, for so many of us right now.

Scott Luton (10:13):

Hmm. All right. So Greg, I mean, we, we talk about this time and time again, it, it no matter sector, almost your thoughts there, when you hear workforce crisis from Rick,

Greg White (10:24):

Oh, wow. Uh, the root cause of everything that’s wrong with the supply chain right now is, is the workforce crisis. I mean, if you go far enough back, which is now approaching three years now, if you can believe that it seems like it was yesterday, we sent the entire workforce of the entire planet home all at once. Right. And then, um, because it was either unsafe health-wise or undesirable or fiscally motivated by some silly governments Yeah. People only trickled back into the workforce. Um, and, and some, uh, some industries like manufacturing have just now reached the level of employment that they were at prior to Covid, and that was already too low. And, you know, we haven’t said this in a long time, Scott, and that is that we had an unemployment crisis in supply chain generally prior to Covid, right? That’s right.

Scott Luton (11:27):

Yeah. For,

Greg White (11:29):

Uh, 44 million supply chain professionals in the US and about a five, uh, no, what, almost 10, 10% unemployment rate. So it’s a pretty dramatic, has always been a pretty dramatic issue. And because that trickle back has occurred, and also because of the demand hit that we took, because everyone was at home buying stuff with my money, uh, our respective taxpayers money, um, you know, demand went way, way up and in ways that no one could predict. So, yeah. Um, yeah, I, I I think labor continues to be an issue, but it is the root cause of virtually every issue that we see in the supply chain today.

Scott Luton (12:13):

Excellent, Greg, I appreciate that. Rick, I wanna circle back to you. Um, anything, um, when you, when you survey end-to-end, uh, supply chain Clorox company or look at other pockets in the industry, is there, are there any particular skills or jobs that, uh, that y’all might struggle more industry struggles more with than others?

Rick McDonald (12:32):

Yeah, there, there are maybe just a couple of, uh, couple of facts for the, for the listing audience. You know, um, if you look at the number of open jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor statistics, like in November it was 10 and a half million. In January, it actually went up to 11 million. Wow. And that is almost two jobs for every, uh, self-reported unemployed person. And so that’s the, and that’s across all industries. That’s a, that’s a US only number, but that gives you kind of the sense of the, of the delta that we’re looking at there. And it’s, it’s massive and pervasive. And it’ll, it’ll come up when we talk about, uh, my, my next, you know, what keeps me up at night, but specific to jobs, um, technical skills, technical skills, and, you know, our, our, um, our supply chain, uh, we’ve got a lot of automation.

Rick McDonald (13:20):

And what we’re finding is we’re in the past, let’s call it three, four, five years ago, we could go out and fairly quickly find people who had some technical background. They might have worked on a farm, they might have been a shade tree mechanic. They did air conditioning maintenance. They actually worked in somebody else’s plant. You could find a lot of those folks. Today, it’s a lot harder to find them. And so it’s put a lot of pressure on our recruiting, um, not only kind of the pre-employment assessment and our interview skills, but also how do we onboard those folks and how do we train them and how do we keep them for as long as as they want to stay? And, you know, one of the things that we recognize is that, um, you know, part of our currency is our culture. And, and so that, that culture is something we pay a lot of attention to, but it’s not replacing the, the pure technical skills that we need to operate our plants in a more digitized environment.

Scott Luton (14:14):

Yeah. Uh, and, and, uh, Greg, we’ve touched on this before with Rick in, in previous appearances, the culture factor. You know, one of the, one of the things we loved during, you know, one of the silver linings, uh, in the last few years are, are those, uh, interviews Rick with your team members and various plants. And they, they all really embrace this, that noble mission. Um, you know, that that was that new element, uh, to, to what your, your team was doing. And man, I think n NBC news visited plants, and you had some other outlets. They did really some quality interviews. But Greg, that culture factor is irreplaceable, right?

Greg White (14:48):

Yeah. Unquestionably and hard to maintain, maintain too, when you lose a big portion of your staff and then have to bring people in because some of your culture leaders may have left or, uh, whatever. I’m curious, Rick, have you, um, do, uh, do you think that generational shift, uh, plays into this, you know, the, we talk about the great resignation as if it was Jen, X, Y, and Z, but really it was baby boomers, um, and they’re never coming back, right? Yep. So those two jobs for every one person, chances are good, half of those jobs won’t be filled. Filled, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, and you know, I’m interested because I would’ve thought that the younger generations would embrace the more technical or technology driven aspects. And we’ve all, we talk about this theoretically, Scott, all the time. So I’m, I’m just curious kind of if one, if generation generational shift comes into it, and two, maybe a little bit about how you’re attacking getting people to take technical jobs.

Rick McDonald (15:50):

Yeah, for, for sure. The, um, you know, the unexpected retirement of so many boomer generation folks during covid is a, is a big part of this. There’s also a, a good chunk of prime aged men, and this was a Johns Hopkins study. There were almost 4 million prime aged men who exited, somehow exited the workforce. Maybe they’re in the gig economy, maybe they’re doing something else. But those, those two things combined created a gap. I, I think one of the things we suffer from Greg, is we have not spent a lot of time promoting supply chain careers. Hmm. Um, and so if you think about the bench, you know, capital B, the bench across production and non-production rules, um, we, we just have not, we haven’t mined for that talent. I think there are plenty of people who would be very interested in supply chain careers, some in our plants, some not in our plants, if they knew more about it.

Rick McDonald (16:42):

And, um, there’s certainly a lot of schools, universities who are developing top-notch supply chain programs, and we recruit at most of them. Um, so that, that’s encouraging, that’s really encouraging. Um, at the same point in time, I think we have to do more, and we’re starting to do more with local technical colleges, uh, local high schools. Um, Nam has, uh, the National Association of Manufacturers, I’m on the board there, they have a program called Creators Wanted, and it’s specifically focused at how do you encourage, uh, high school students and inform their parents about what types of careers exist in manufacturing in the supply chain.

Scott Luton (17:17):

Yeah. Love that. Love that. Uh, and we gotta get out in our schools, uh, in elementary schools and, and middle schools and start early. Uh, Greg, you and I did, we’re doing some of that, uh, with b supply chain, right? Yes. Uh, so what a great point, Greg and Rick, uh, and I hate the move, and, and we could talk for hours on end about some of the workforce challenges and some of the things that we gotta start doing as the industry. But for the sake of time, Greg and Rick, I wanna move to number two. So, number one is a workforce crisis. What’s number two that keeps chief supply chain officers up at night? Rick?

Rick McDonald (17:51):

It’s the, it’s the digitization of the supply chain. You know, we’re all in various states of some level of, of digital capability. Um, you know, that is, that is, I, I would just say very quickly, five or 10 years ago, automation was an interesting thing. Uh, some companies had it, a lot of companies didn’t. But now I think it’s more and more of an essential when the business case is becoming more pronounced.

Scott Luton (18:18):

Hmm. Okay. Greg, uh, some of your most popular supply chain summaries have been on the topic of digitization or automation or, you know, in, in this bucket. So when you hear Rick say that, where does your brain go, Greg?

Greg White (18:31):

Well, immediately to this generational shift, which is why we have delayed automation so substantially, is because there was this great hue and cry that automation, robots, whatever, coming to take our jobs. Well, those people, many of those people who were concerned about that retired in the great resignation, and now there need be no apology. I mean, we’ve got twice as many jobs open, right? Uh, as there are people to fill them. Those simple math says something besides a human has to do some of those jobs. So, uh, I think we’re in an interesting place, again, because it all kind of goes back to labor, doesn’t it? Because, um, you know, because the workforce has shifted so dramatically and people want these more fulfilling jobs, you know, we use the terms, this perception, Rick, of, of manufacturing and supply chain generally dark, dirty, dangerous, and dull.

Greg White (19:25):

Right? And nobody wants a job. That’s that. Which I think is key to your point of identifying for people how fulfilling and, um, problem solving and, and, um, challenging supply chain jobs are because people want those jobs. Yeah. So anyway, I think that the, you know, the, the beautiful thing is we don’t have to apologize for automation anymore. And that also helps us uplift the workforce to do things, human things that humans are better at. Right? Nobody, I, I think of all these hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people with carpal tunnel from doing tiny little tasks, you know, in a, in an automotive supply chain, right? And now that can be automated and that, you know, elevates the health of people and then allows them to do those things that people do so much better than, than, uh, automation and technology.

Scott Luton (20:23):

Yep. Um, you know, Rick, you mentioned, uh, Nam, the National Association from Manufacturing. And again, as Greg said, all roads go back to workforce. I think they’ve been projecting for years now, the ma just in the manufacturing industry, the millions of jobs that are open that companies cannot feel, of course, Greg, as we’ve, as we all know, it’s, and all three of us here, it, it’s driving automation, it’s driving for companies to find new ways, uh, to apply, uh, practical automation. The other thing when I, Rick, I’m gonna get you to comment on, when I think of the digitization of supply chain, is the cyber risk out there. I think ju just this week, I think a big food company was the, was the latest victim. Um, I don’t want to open any sensitive doors, Rick, but I mean, cyber, I bet I, I, I’ll lose sleep sometimes over cyber threats. Rick,

Rick McDonald (21:10):

It is on, it is on all of our minds. It has been for some time now. I don’t think there’s a, a company around that’s been paying attention to this space, it isn’t concerned about that, and doesn’t have plans to shore up any potential gaps. They have something that our, um, our chief technical officer and I talk about quite regularly. Um, and we’ve, we’ve actually, and started maybe three years ago, four years ago, maybe even five, uh, developing plans to go out and assess where our, where our risks were and what it would take to, uh, to shore those up. So that is a, uh, that is a very prominent threat that, uh, that most everybody’s concerned about.

Scott Luton (21:46):

Yep. Good stuff there, Rick. Um, okay. Uh, back really quick on the subject of automation. Ahmad says, automation is there to help us and improve our quality. We can save time, maybe cost, and invest it in the new topic or theme automation is and should support us. I’m, uh, great to have you here. Thanks for sharing that.

Rick McDonald (22:06):

Um, no, Scott, I, I, if I could, I just, I’ll build on that. I agree exactly with what Ahmad said, and he mentioned the word time. And it, it’s always in my brain that the enemy that we all have is time. Um, the, the time. And, and you think about the data that’s generated from this automation. How do you, uh, corral that curated, harvest it so you can get faster insights? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> with time is the enemy, and accuracy is the goal and kind of data democratization as the, the end state. This whole idea of digitizing as much as you can and linking systems together will help you get to faster insights and should help you be more competitive in whatever industry you’re in.

Scott Luton (22:49):

Yes. Rick, Tom, Greg, what’s old is new again. Tom is still our arch nemesis. Right?

Greg White (22:55):

Keeps on ticking into the future. <laugh>, um, thank you. That’s from my Steve Miller cover band.

Greg White (23:10):

You know, uh, what it, what it, what that prompts me to think about is, uh, how automation does, um, it, it may not optimize for what has been historically supply chain’s primary driver, which is lowest cost, but it does primary for, or it does, uh, it does optimize for what should be the primary driver, which is performance, right? Which is performance to the customer’s standards. And today, I think more and more organizations are recognizing that they have to be fast, and they have to be reliable. They have to be at a reasonable cost, and they have to be ethical, you know? So, uh, IT automation can do all of those things in, in a very stable way. And stability is key to those first reliability, right. And speed. So, um, the, the consumer’s expectations are very high. And their knowledge of supply chain, as we talked about at the start of the show, is very high. Right? They, it used to be, um, you know, if you ran out of toilet paper, you could blame Target or Costco. Now they know that it’s not just one company’s fault that, you know, we’re outta TP or whatever. So, yep. Um, so everyone is exposed to the consumer these days. There’s really nowhere to hide. And, and you’re starting to see more and more investment by strong manufacturers and brands into that reliability and stability or, and, and speed and, and reducing hopefully the emphasis on just cost. Yep. Yeah. Good schedule on

Rick McDonald (24:47):

This is, this is just, I mean, building on that, Greg, that is exactly right. And I think what all of us are seeing is this is one way to take some uncertainty out of the supply chain. If, if we can digitize and get those insights faster, then we have eliminated element of time that will help us serve the consumer and the customer better. I mean, I, I was looking at something the, um, it’s, it’s the, uh, it’s the global supply chain pressure index that the, uh, uh, the Fed, the New York Fed puts together mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it’s, it’s never been higher. And I, I think this level of uncertainty and disruption, um, and, and, you know, kind of borderline chaos at times is gonna be just a new normal. That’s just the way it’s going to be. And so if you can use digital assets to eliminate some of that risk and make something more predictable that today isn’t, yeah. That’s, that’s one way you can be successful with your customers and your consumers.

Scott Luton (25:38):

Oh man. So much goodness. I’d love to dive in deeper there, but for the sake of time, Rick has probably seven full plates. So we gotta protect this time here today, back to that time challenge. Right. Um, alright, so we’re talking about three of the top reasons that CS CEOs le lose sleep at night. Uh, the first one was workforce crisis, uh, that, that maybe touched on so many others. Uh, the second one was digitization of supply chain. What’s the third one, Rick?

Rick McDonald (26:08):

Yeah, the, the third one for me is this whole idea, this notion of supply chain resilience and responsiveness. And, um, I I, gosh, during covid, I think a lot of us learned some really valuable, uh, well valuable lessons, painful lessons around how resilient our supply chains were or were not,

Scott Luton (26:30):

Uh, undoubtedly. And, and, and we’re still learning many of those lessons. They, they keep, they keep lingering in so many different ways. Um, uh, any examples that come to your mind, especially where maybe you’re looking to strengthen, um, the Clorox company’s resilience as every company’s looking to do anything come to mind,

Rick McDonald (26:48):

Right. Yeah, there’s, I mean, there’s, there’s several things, but the one I would highlight is, um, many of us, um, for the longest time would try and leverage our spend with sole suppliers. That was kind of a time tested approach to benefit the supplier, to benefit the manufacturer. And what we found during covid, first of all, we had phenomenal responses from our supplier community and our third party community. So this, this is nothing about any of that, but right. When you see demand, that’s 500% of your normal demand, as we did on some of our products. Um, a sole sourcing strategy without a really good backup plan isn’t, isn’t a great recipe. And I think many of us, uh, probably postponed developing, uh, backup plans for those sole source suppliers in some cases. And, uh, you know, about halfway through the pandemic, we, we all wished we had done something a little bit different five years earlier. But that’s, that’s one of the key learnings here is thinking about your tier one and your tier two suppliers. Cuz your tier one might be fine, but your tier two might have a sole source situation that you would wanna look into.

Scott Luton (27:51):

Yep. Rick, excellent. And you know that what if strategy, I think we’re all gonna be spending a lot more time answering, you know, filling into blank. What if this, what if that, Greg, um, we’ve talked about this, this is like a common theme going probably to our first show, uh, supply, um, uh, the diversi diversification of a supply base. Your thoughts on what Rick was just sharing?

Greg White (28:14):

Well, you know, I have this, uh, you know, I, I do a lot of thinking about E S G and supply chain performance and that sort of thing. And so I have very simple concept here. Compliance is mandatory and compliance is impossible. To give you an example, just lemme give you one example. Walmart, Walmart ha has a hundred thousand suppliers, of which the Clorox company is one. Let’s not talk about the Clorox company. <laugh>, let’s talk about Proctor and Gamble, one of the other hundred thousand who also has 76,000 direct suppliers to it. One of which is Dow Company, which also has a, a, a 14,000 direct suppliers to it. That’s tier one. That’s what Rick is calling tier one. Some of these companies don’t even know who their suppliers are beyond tier one or beyond tier two. And some of them have seven tiered supply chains, depending on what kind of raw materials or materials that they use to, to make their products. It is literally impossible to know your entire supply chain. And, and you’re trying to create resiliency and responsiveness in your supply chain. Hell yeah. That would keep you up at night <laugh>, right? People you don’t even know could fail you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? People you don’t even know exist could actually co bring your supply chain down. So that’s the complexity of supply chain that I think a lot of, a lot of observers and, um, enthusiasts, not experts, enthusiasts mostly with TikTok channels. Um, that’s the, that’s the part of supply chain that they don’t get. Yeah. Right.

Scott Luton (29:52):

Greg, why do I always leave my conversations with Greg White, Rick, uh, feeling like my blind spot has just blown up so much bigger than what it, what it was Rick. Uh, but he, ra reg raises a great point, especially with really big portfolios, really big, um, uh, multiverse, uh, supply chains. Your, give your final comment here before moving. Yeah. <laugh>, Rick, your final comment here on creating that resilience, that, uh, responsiveness that you mentioned, and then we’re, we got some really cool things that we’re gonna wrap with on the second half of the show.

Rick McDonald (30:25):

Yeah. This is, in my mind, this is a mindset. This is a leadership mindset thing that has to change. First, we were all, all of us we’re steeped in this idea of, um, of just in time and especially in publicly traded companies, you were rewarded for lean assets. You were awarded for lean working capital. You were awarded for just as much laborer that you needed. And not a, not a little bit more, you were rewarded for a supply base that was really lean and thin and, you know, generated a lot of sole source situations. Now we’ve moved because of this sort of ongoing level of disruption and uncertainty. Now I think we’ve moved to this just in case mindset. And it is a, I’ll tell you what we’ve been talking about around here for, for some time now, you know, probably close to two years. And it’s a, it’s a hard thing to get past. Um, because we’re so en ingrained in this idea that we want to be, we wanna have a scarcity mindset. We want to be thrifty, we want to use the shareholders’ assets. Well, and, um, you know, kind of pushing past that to making some different choices is, uh, is one thing we’re working on right now. And I suspect all manufacturers are as well.

Scott Luton (31:37):

Yeah. Undoubtedly, undoubtedly. I appreciate you expounding on that, cuz we all have opportunities. Uh, you know, one last thing, not to beat the dead horse, but one last comment. Uh, we can learn so much from our kids. I mean, I’ve learned, I’ve learned, uh, I am so thankful for how they’ve taught me just this morning, uh, I was talking to Ben on the way to, on the way to school. We went, we had ba baseball practice last night, Rick, well, both your and you and Greg both, uh, we’re excelled on the diamond. Um, so we’re talking about Ben’s batting and his catching and, and, uh, I was talking to him about the importance of realizing that there are opportunities so that you can acknowledge ’em and then know where to focus to get better. And, uh, as a great conversation, of course, as, as, as they all are with Ben. But there’s so much truth there from a business standpoint, you know, and, and Rick, uh, and Greg, uh, as business leaders, we got to acknowledge and be honest with ourselves where we have these opportunities, in this case Rick, with, uh, resilience and responsiveness, uh, and then attack ’em, right? But we can’t be fooling ourselves, Greg and Rick by pretending it’s one way, uh, when really <laugh> the real world is, uh, a mu a much different spot. Um, okay. So I

Greg White (32:51):

Think there’s a lot, I think there’s a lot that using that kid analogy, I think there’s a lot that manufacturers can use from, or learn from their kids. They’re retailers because, um, and I don’t know the specific numbers of Clorox, um, and I don’t think I’m a shareholder, so, but I know that, that generally, I’m sorry, Rick, I’ll on maybe I’m not sure, but if, uh, if it’s, it’s if it’s in a mutual fund, maybe <laugh>. Um, but, um, you know, I think about having worked every, every element of the supply chain, retail, distribution, manufacturing, I think about how retailers had to have a different mindset for so, so long because their net margins are one to three in a good year, maybe 5% in manufacturers. And again, not reflecting on or speculating on Clorox, but I do know that the numbers are very broad. They’re in the nine to 21% range.

Greg White (33:52):

And one of one company that I mentioned that is not Clorox, a approach has approached the 21% net margin after taxes range. So they’ve been living on fat, fat margins and they haven’t had to be very efficient. Whereas retailers have had to change their mindset ages ago because they take so much risk in the supply chain and their margins are so very, very tight. Yeah. So I think that there’s something that retailers and manufacturers can share that allows them to learn and improve, uh, at every level. Um, you know, I think I, I’ve seen it because I worked so much in the retail and distribution end of the supply chain, that they are super efficient. And the mindset shift that I think is important, and you alluded to this, Rick, is to shift from this cost saving mindset, which is largely ruled supply chain and even is very prominent at retailers and distributors to this risk balancing and risk. And by risk balancing, I mean cost, speed, reliability, ethics, all of those things, quality, all of those things that you need to balance to be a reputable company, um, against all of those other, all of the, uh, um, corroborating whatever.

Scott Luton (35:10):

I’m good with it. Other,

Greg White (35:11):

With it, right? Because, um, that’s, that’s where when you make that mind mindset shift, that’s glad I said that, right? Make that mindset shift, that’s when you can really change things. But it is a dramatically different way. And I know Rick, you guys have been very conscious to try to make that shift, but it is so very difficult after, you know, companies, some of them for their entire life, right. And focus sole on cost savings.

Scott Luton (35:40):

Yep.

Rick McDonald (35:41):

Okay,

Scott Luton (35:42):

Rick, all good. Ready to move to our next topic? So folks, uh, y’all are gonna have, uh, a, I would think a very unique opportunity to learn from one of the best in the business. We get asked this question all the time here at supply chain now on every show, every webinar, every live stream, you name it, across social. And that is, you know, career and professional advice. So Rick, uh, in particular, um, if folks want to move, uh, successfully through their career and eventually end up to become, you know, like you chief supply chain officer or being the C-suite, maybe the different function functional area, what advice would you have for those folks?

Rick McDonald (36:22):

Yeah, maybe just, uh, maybe just a few things. Scott and Greg. Um, first of all, a little bit of a visual. One of the ways that I do a little bit of self-evaluation around, um, how am I doing in my role, my company, I have this little triangle in my head. On one side it’s the people, uh, and the culture of the company. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, do I like who I work with? Um, is the culture the currency of the culture of the company, of the role of the area of the world I’m working in? Is that what I need to be? Should I be trying to change that? The other angle is the work I get to do. I’m a, I’m a pretty restless person, and so I’m really much more about, um, transforming and fixing things than I am incrementalism. Mm. Uh, and, and so it’s important to know that about yourself.

Rick McDonald (37:05):

Like what, what kind of gigs do you like and what kind of work really turns you on and gets you fired up in the morning to, uh, to go in and have another run at it? That’s the second, uh, side of the triangle. A third side of the triangle is the compensation. Am I, am I being rewarded properly and fairly for the contributions I’m making as a company? Recognizing that, so I always have that little triangle in my head. I don’t think about it all the time, but I think it’s a good, uh, it’s a good reference to keep things in balance as you’re going through your career. I, I would say for folks who are aspiring to do more, uh, first of all, be really good at what you do now, be be an expert. I, um, I find a lot of times individuals are more interested in advancing or moving into something different before they’ve really completed a couple, three cycles in their current job.

Rick McDonald (37:52):

And I always say, you know, you gotta eat your cooking. It’s one thing to go one round or two rounds in a roll and a couple of budget cycles. It’s another to have to go those two rounds. And then the third time reverse something you said was really, really important the last round or the one round before that, the year before that. And so I, I really, um, I, I think learning your craft, being great at your craft, that will form the right foundation for larger and larger roles. They don’t get easier as they go. And you’ll find yourself relying on things you learned at various points in your career as you, as you move through the organization. I, I’d say the, I’d say the last thing is, um, this idea of your personal brand, pay attention to it. Yeah. You know, what do you stand for?

Rick McDonald (38:35):

Who are you? Um, not only your version of that, but your company’s version of that, your boss’s version of that. And, you know, be willing to go ask those questions and seek out that feedback in terms of, you know, who is Rick McDonald? Who is Scott Luton? Who is Greg White? And how do those who have the ability to help us in our careers and influence our careers, how do they see that? And be listening for the constructive bits of feedback that will help you identify a blind spot, shore up an opportunity, fill in a gap that maybe you knew you had, maybe you didn’t know about it.

Scott Luton (39:10):

Yep. Okay, man, Greg, that last, the last three minutes, four minutes, whatever it was, masterclass. I mean, we heard, I think everybody’s gotta be their own. Gotta got to develop their own triangle, you know, that Rick walked us through. Cause cause it’s different for different folks. Uh, we heard be an expert right? Before you look at other things, you get own what you’re doing and be the expert there. And of course, a personal branding, which there’s tremendous opportunities with personal branding these days because of the likes of social media, huge opportunities. But Greg, uh, what are some of your key takeaways as, as Rick was addressing career advice there?

Greg White (39:46):

So specifically to the branding, it has to be genuine, right? To the point, the last point he made around that is ask people what your, what your brand is to them. Um, and my God, that is a hard conversation, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, you, it, it takes a, a significant amount of intestinal fortitude to ask someone, even someone you really love or really trust, how am I perceived? Because, uh, you’re almost always going to get probably a friendly surprise that just shocks the hell out of you. Really? I didn’t know people saw me that way. And, and then you realize that’s one of the hurdles, one of the, one of the sides of the triangle for yourself that you have to fix, right? Are you, are you a fit for the culture? Yeah. Whatever. Right? The other is, is to first be excellent. I’ve always thought that leaders, um, um, I’ve, and much like engineers and, and much like accountants, yeah, I think, I think leaders are born not built.

Greg White (40:51):

And I know we’ll get a lot of argument from Gary V and whoever else has, has a, as a, uh, TikTok. But, um, but whether that’s true or not, the truth is that I’ve seen, and I think Rick, you’ve seen this, you don’t, you don’t promote yourself to your next promotion. What you do is you execute to the point that someone goes, my gosh, we have to elevate that person. If they did that good here, by the time they get settled at this next level, they’ll be, you know, doing that much more value for the organization. And I think that’s a really, really important distinction. It’s the value that you do for the organization, the outcomes that you provide to the organization that get you elevated, not, not the, um, accomplishments that you perceive have earned you the right to get to the next level.

Scott Luton (41:45):

Yep. Yep.

Greg White (41:47):

That’s, there’s a certain amount of humility in leaders, but that are almost, it’s, it’s kind of like the classic hero story. They’re almost reluctant to get to the next level. Yes. If you think you don’t deserve it, by the way, chances are very good that someone else thinks that you do.

Scott Luton (42:04):

Hmm. Well, uh, as you were sharing your response there, Greg, I’ve crafted my triangle and I’ve hope I’ve got this right. Be like, Rick is my triangle. <laugh>, that’s,

Speaker 5 (42:17):

That is the simplest way to say it. It’s <laugh>.

Scott Luton (42:21):

Uh, but really Rick, I appreciate as often as, you know, everyone’s trying to get better, right? Uh, I worked for someone one time that that said, it’s very few people that go to work do a poor job. Very few people, right? So thank y’all very much both of you for addressing that. Um, okay, before we move on, uh, we’ve got a few more minutes with Rick MacDonnell. I’ll share a couple of quick comments. Uh, John Peterson had talked, been talking about offshore and earlier he mentions risk mitigation, which both of y’all alluded to is, is gotta be part of the total cost of ownership equation. Great point there. John. Uh, Leah mom says, I didn’t realize that Clorox owned so many other products. I e Berts Bees Formula 4 0 9, Hey cat litter with two indoor cats. We go through some fresh step, man. Mom, you’re quite the ambassador here for the Clorox company. I love Clorox even more now. She says, thank you for being a part of the show. Kingsburg

Greg White (43:10):

Charles Bowl. Yes. Right. That’s right, Brad. Is that right also?

Scott Luton (43:13):

Yes.

Rick McDonald (43:15):

Thanks. Uh, hidden Valley Ranch salad dressings, Brita water filters. We’ve got a great lineup of brands,

Scott Luton (43:20):

Man. And she also, I missed this thank you to Clorox for donating cat litter to shelters. I didn’t that that makes a lot of sense giving y’all’s culture. So thanks for sharing that. Uh, Ahmad, I think sometimes we should present the people one or two successful examples, then we will see better acceptance and the mindset changes automatically. Maybe, uh, and Josh agrees a hundred percent without examples and options being shown. Some people feel like they are being forced versus having options presented with your recommendations. Great, great job Josh and Ahmad there. Um, okay, so this next topic, speaking of Josh, I, I believe Josh is a fellow veteran. I think he served in the army, if I’m not mistaken. Josh, correct me if I’m wrong, Rick, one of the things that we admire so much about, um, your company and who y’all are is people and leaders. Um, the Clark’s company was recognized by Forbes as one of America’s best employers for veterans. Hmm. So, uh, that’s, that’s the subject near and dear to our hearts here. We do a lot of, to support our fellow veteran community in a hopefully a practical, meaningful and, uh, outcome driven way. And we share that. So for companies like that wanna be more like, like, um, your company and they want to tap into this critical and expansive veteran talent pipeline. What, what would be some of your advice there, Rick?

Rick McDonald (44:41):

Yeah, thank, thank you for, uh, for knowing that recognition. We’re really proud of that. And as we’re proud of the other, uh, employer resource groups, the ERGs that we have in the, uh, in the clocks company, VetNet is a, um, it’s a really important part of our history and our culture. And, you know, I would say it this way, um, one of our three values is put people at the center. And this was a very intentional approach to, uh, recognize the value of an, uh, a group of employees, uh, that are veterans in in our company. It’s got executive level support. Um, prior to me, my, my, um, my predecessor Andy Mallory was the executive, uh, in charge of, um, uh, sponsoring VetNet. That’s me today. And so we take it very seriously and all of our ERGs have one of the senior leaders in the company as their, as their sponsor.

Rick McDonald (45:33):

Mm-hmm. Um, I, I would say the other thing is we have senior leaders who are in addition to their very complex and busy day jobs, who basically take on the responsibility of, of leading these ERGs. Um, they craft a mission statement. They craft the activities that the, the ERG is going to, um, uh, go after during the course of the year. And one of the things I always coach the, the, the folks on is, you know, let’s have a nice meaningful list, but we, it can’t be a, you know, a hundred item list. There just won’t be enough time or enough people to go and address that number of, uh, of items. But that’s, that’s kinda what we have. One of the ways we get there is we are very intentional about going and looking for, um, veterans. Maybe they’re currently employed, maybe they’re just exiting the military in, in some way or another.

Rick McDonald (46:20):

And so we do a lot in the recruiting space to make sure that our job descriptions are healthy in their language around interest in veterans. Um, we do quite a bit with, um, looking at the regional veterans employment coordinators. Mm. And, uh, that that really helps us get kind of a leg on, you know, who’s coming out, where are they coming out, and there is a steady stream of individuals coming outta the military who are exceptionally well prepared to do supply chain work and to, more importantly, to be leaders in your company. And so, uh, we just consider it as a great way to win in business by making sure we’re looking for a top talent wherever it is.

Scott Luton (46:57):

Rick, I love that Greg. You know, I loved where he finished. I loved all of that. But where he finished, it’s, it’s not because it’s the right thing to do, it’s because of the value proposition it poses to the business. And that’s what veterans want to hear, right? Greg, you’re your response to what, uh, Rick just walked us through there.

Greg White (47:17):

Yeah, well, I’m, I’m always, uh, distracted by my inspiration whenever Rick talks about people, he’s one of the best leaders of people that I’ve ever met in corporate industry. So, um, but yeah, I think, you know, there are so many examples. Donna Kirkland, who’s been on this show is another leader at, at Clorox that, um, we know you’ve had some influence on, and of course these kinds of initiatives that you take personal interest in. Um, and I know because you’re a shop floor guy at heart, you love going to the plants to, to meet with those people. I have a feeling if they would let you, you might put a hand or two on a machine every once in a while and do a little bit yourself, but yeah, I mean, I, I think, look, thi this is this he, Rick, you are a, a great example of, of, uh, principles in motion, right?

Greg White (48:12):

In action. And, um, you know, more people need to, um, not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And I’ve, I’ve been dying to say that for so long, <laugh>. Um, but I, but I think that you see that in the culture of your company, but also I think, I think people who want to be a leader to, to the last question that we addressed, they need to think about their contribution to important things like this, like the culture, like the people, right? Notice by the way, in his triangle, what was the first angle that he, that he spoke about? The people, people in the culture of the company. So, um, you know, I think that this is something, this is a great example to the point that, that I think Ahmad and Josh were just talking about, you need these kind of examples, leaders like you, Rick, to show people, talk to people, but also show people how to, um, enable greatness in your organization. Yes, of course, it’s always for the good of the company, but the good of the company and the good of, of the human being, when you have an advocate like Rick McDonald on your side are always aligned. Yes.

Scott Luton (49:21):

So yes, yes. Principles in action, that is Rick McDonald and the Clorox company. I love that. Uh, alright, so Rick, um, really appreciate your carving some time out. As busy as you and the team are, uh, making clearly plenty of customers <laugh> like Lilu and extremely happy. So, um, how can folks connect with you? Can they learn more? Uh, what would you you suggest there?

Rick McDonald (49:45):

Yeah, very good. Well, first of all, thank you for having me back again. Just, uh, just fantastic, very nice to meet you mom virtually, and thank you for being such a supporter of the Clorox company and our products. That’s, uh, that’s really cool. Um, well, let’s see, uh, on March 8th at the, uh, Georgia Logistics Summit in Savannah, Chris Gaffney and I are, uh, gonna talk about, uh, supply chain stuff. And we’ve got a great segment on the program there. And so if you’re in the area, um, love to, love to have you stop by and, and I’d love to meet some folks if, uh, if, if you’re available to do that, you know, past that for the Clorox company. Um, you, you can find us a lot of places, uh, at sign Clorox on, um, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, uh, I think it works on YouTube as well. We are lots of places with, um, uh, in, in a, in the social media spear@thecloroxcompany.com or simply clorox.com. You’ll also find a lot of information about the company. You’ll also find a link to careers at Clorox, and you can go on indeed.com and find all the Clorox jobs that are, uh, that are available. And, um, we’d love to hear from you. We’re looking for talented supply chain individuals, so, um, come early, come often and, uh, you know, let’s see what we can do about you joining the company,

Scott Luton (51:01):

Man. Love that. And Greg, I bet you agree with me here. Who wouldn’t wanna work for someone like Rick McDonald? I know, I would. I got, I’m sorry,

Greg White (51:12):

What, what were you

Scott Luton (51:13):

Saying? <laugh>, don’t you apply for a job? Here’re, Greg. Um, well, thank you. And I bet y’all are hiring, you know, given all the growth and, and the culture and the purpose-driven organization that y’all are. I bet y’all are hiring left and rights. So folks, what a great opportunity. So y’all check that out. We’re trying to make it easy. We’ll also find a link to the George Logistics Summit for those of you that may want to be in Savannah for that. Uh, so you can hear Rick in person. Rick, uh, well, well before he goes, Greg, your, um, your thoughts on what Rick shared here, and then we’re gonna, uh, bid him Aou and sign off here promptly.

Greg White (51:47):

Uh, well, I mean, uh, first of all, I don’t know how you did that without a cue card, by the way, all of that, Rick, that was pretty impressive. Um, but I, you know, look, I think if you want to be, we, we asked the question how do people get to be a Chief supply chain officer? Um, my first question would be, do you really, really gonna be a cheap supply

Rick McDonald (52:09):

<laugh>?

Greg White (52:10):

This is one job where I think working your way up through the ranks makes a lot of sense because you can, it gets more complex, um, and more accountable, meaning you’re closer to this every single time you move up. So I think it’s, IM important for people to, to kind of feel their way to these C-Suite type jobs. But I mean, if you want to learn the way to do it, I would just say review some of the videos that, um, that Rick was telling you about the interview by N B C of those were your, those were your manufacturing people, many of them, right? So, yeah. Um, and I think, uh, Scott, do you still have your triangle?

Scott Luton (52:51):

I, I

Greg White (52:52):

Do. I would say then, if, you know, if, if supply chain generally is your career, and certainly if supply chain leadership is your career, be like Rick.

Scott Luton (53:01):

That’s right. Couldn’t have said it better. Greg, uh, Rick McDonald, senior vice president, chief supply chain officer, doing big things for, uh, the Chlorox company and moving our industry forward. Thank you very much for being back with us here. Uh, Rick, we’ll see you soon.

Rick McDonald (53:16):

Thanks Scott. Thanks, Greg. Enjoyed it. All

Scott Luton (53:18):

Righty, man. Breath of fresh air each time, each time. And, and you and I had a good fortune of, uh, breaking bread, uh, with Rick McDonald. Uh, probably been a month or so ago. And, uh, just man, it’s got such a uplifting perspective and manner and approach and, and leadership style. So Greg, I appreciate what you shared there cuz it can be all boiled down to beat my rick on so many different levels, folks.

Greg White (53:46):

Well, look, a lot of work goes into that. I mean, there are inspirational leaders, there are operational leaders, right. And there and there are manage manager leaders, right? Right. And, um, rarely do you find all of that in, in a single person. And it takes a lot of that introspection that, that Rick was talking about to be able to get there. Um, and it takes a lot of discipline to have, you know, to, to conduct the introspection and to get the external input that he talked about Yes. To get you there. So it ain’t easy.

Scott Luton (54:20):

Nope.

Greg White (54:20):

Right. When I say be like, Rick, it’s a very, I’m sure it’s a very complex picture, <laugh>. Right? But, but if you think about just the principles that he laid out here Yeah. Those are all great foundations. And then you can find your way, um, you know, to frankly determine whether you’ve got the gifts to get there. Yes. You know, their, their level levels and layers of leaders regardless of their role, their position, their authority.

Scott Luton (54:46):

Yes. Agreed. And, you know, to, to mess with you both. I was gonna draw a parallelogram or a rhombus or something instead of a triangle and see if y’all caught that. But I, I was too distracted. Um,

Greg White (54:57):

MBUS man, <laugh>, my favorite shapes

Scott Luton (55:00):

<laugh>. Josh says, I’ll add to this. You just listed the, uh, a list of things folks need to know. Greg, Josh, I’ll add knowledge to that. Josh says, knowing that tomatoes are our fruit is knowledge, knowing that they don’t belong in a fruit salad is wisdom.

Greg White (55:16):

Amen to that.

Scott Luton (55:18):

All right, folks, hopefully y’all enjoyed this conversation as much as we have. Hey, um, you know, we’re having a little fun with the bleep bee Rick, but folks check out, uh, when I was preparing for this interview, I, of course was diving deep with all the things that Clorox company’s up to, and their accolades and their recognition and their focus on people. I mean, that’s not just Rick. That is part of the, the very deliberate culture. So y’all check it out. If you’re in the market looking for a new job, especially if you’re a veteran, don’t, um, don’t forget, do your homework and check out the clorox company.com cause they’re hiring. All right, Greg, all this concludes, uh, for the most part a big week of programming. We finished it with our, our cleanup hitter, our cecille fielder here today. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, Andre Skylar, ragga, little, little El bras throwback maybe. Um, I’m a great, really enjoyed it. <laugh>

Greg White (56:11):

Royals fan.

Scott Luton (56:11):

That’s right. Um, really have enjoyed it. Greg, I appreciate all of what you’ve dropped here through the programming this week, so thank you very much.

Greg White (56:19):

Likewise. Yeah, I, I mean, we’re in the presence of greatness. It’s, it’s easy to kind of play off of that, isn’t it?

Scott Luton (56:25):

Oh, so true.

Greg White (56:26):

And it’s so frankly educating for us every single time we do it as well. That’s right. Thank you. And likewise, I love the way you facilitate and, and, and contribute to these conversations because look, you know, we’re just practitioners behind a mic, right? When it comes right down to it.

Scott Luton (56:44):

That’s right. Uh, alright folks, but hey, it’s one thing to listen to everything that we discussed and talk about all the wonderful perspective from our, our guests, but the more important thing, the billion dollar question is what are you doing with it, right? Because it’s all about deeds, not words, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So with that in mind, on behalf of our entire team, uh, on behalf of Greg and of course myself, I’m challenging you, challenging all of y’all. Hey, deeds, not words do good. Give forward and be the change. Be like Rick and the place in the whole world will be a better place. So we’ll see you next time, right back here at Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (57:21):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain now, community. Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain now, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain. Now.