Fresh off the third African conference on operations and supply chain management in Kigali, Rwanda, the Supply Chain Maestro is back to catch us up on the latest in medical supply chain research – and much more. Co-hosts Scott Luton and Jenny Froome sit down with PhD student and supply chain expert Ramatu Abdulkadir to discuss top supply chain challenges facing the African continent, including food logistics, the rising cost of transportation, and electoral logistics, as well as changing attitudes toward professional experience in the field. As we look to overcome vaccine hesitancy and misinformation, the question remains: given all the challenges, does supply chain management still present an attractive career option? Hear what Scott, Jenny and Ramatu think when you tune in to this thoughtful discussion.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning, everybody. Scott Luton and special guest host, Jenny Froome with you right here on supply chain. Now, welcome to today’s show Jenny, how you doing, how you doing, doing a wonderful, we’ve got two of our favorite people here with us today, and we’re going to, we’re going to introduce formally introduce one of our favorite repeat guests in a minute, Jenny, but I’m pretty stoked about today’s conversation. How about you? Yeah, me too. I love talking to the special guest I do too. So on today’s episode, we’re continuing our supply chain leadership across Africa series in conjunction, of course, with Jenny Froome and our friends at St. Pics. Jenny, as you may recall, serves as COO of the pigs organization, doing wonderful work from a professional development and networking standpoint, a really I’d call it not just best practice dissemination, but you know, insights market Intel.

Scott Luton (01:21):

How can we get through these challenging times? Not just from a supply chain standpoint, Jenny, but a global business standpoint, right? Community, community. That is right and team because together everyone achieves more, right? Jenny say, we’re learning from a couple of our past conversations, so you can learn more about say pics at [inaudible] dot org. So with that said, I want to formally welcome in our wonderful guests here today. We’ve enjoyed a variety of, of past discussions. Get ready to be inspired and informed. Uh, want to welcome back Ramatu Abdulkadir, AKA the supply chain Maestro. Ramatu how are you doing?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (02:04):

I’m doing great. And Jenny, it’s nice to catch up with you too. Once again, I’m excited to be on this show.

Scott Luton (02:11):

Well, you know, we ha we had to track your agent down. Uh, she was dodging us because your schedule is so crazy, but we finally nailed down the date and it’s great to have you back, you know, uh, Jenny and her motto, it’s been, we blink and months go past. So the last time you were with us, Vermont too was episode 6 73, which we released on the 5th of July, 2021. So it’s a few months back. Tell us what have you been up to since Vermont to,

Ramatu Abdulkadir (02:39):

Yeah. Thank you, Scott. Well, it’s been crazy for the past few months. Have continued with my research. If you recall, my last time on the last show, I told you about my research and some of the findings from my research, but immediately after that, we started planning for the Ted African conference and operations and supply chain management in Kigali Rwanda. And that was my first in-person conference of tacos. And it was so exciting. Um, also I was very anxious because I went for any conference testing and I just wasn’t sure what it was going to be like, like get tested before you leave us. You get to get tested, I think had like five to six tests just going through that process. But, um, it was a constraint that I met a lot of researchers from all over the world and people from everywhere in Africa doing so many exciting research. And, um, so it was really what it’s going through, all those tests to meet those people. And also the opportunities of collaboration on research, um, especially on the African continent to try and see how we can fix some of the problems there’ll be. Yeah. So that was it’s. It was really great having that term conference last two weeks and

Scott Luton (04:12):

Really quick, that was the Ted ex conference focused on operations. And what was the other topic?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (04:19):

So African Africa and management in Kigali, Rwanda,

Scott Luton (04:28):

I’m thinking like a Ted talks. Sorry, I got you a third. Okay. I got I’m I’m with you now. I’m a bit slow sometimes remote too. Um, and you were talking about how, um, you really appreciated the opportunity to basically compare notes and compare research with a lot of other, um, um, uh, leaders about some of the challenges inherent to Africa. What, what is one what’s one challenge in particular and maybe even non-covered related, because I think the whole world has got plenty of challenges, but what is one challenge in particular, you really enjoyed your conversations around at this conference?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (05:03):

Yeah, so I think aside from some of the researches that we’re focused on, so we’ll have some researches focused on the aerospace industry in Tanzania. We had some also were focused on the agric and food logistics, supply chain. I’m looking at countries, African country, Tanzania, and how they were managing them. And also the huge and rising cost of transportation. There was also some research on electoral logistics, which was very interesting because we are approaching elections in Nigeria very soon. In 2023, we have an I elections and there was a research on that which really caught the attention of people also found it very exciting. I think I will have to give it to the supply chain because right now with the rising cost of food and I’m just increasing level of poverty. So I’m having research on every supply chain is I think is free collect. This teacher we’ll find ourselves. So that was, I was really interested in news. Researchers are focused on supply chain.

Scott Luton (06:18):

So Jenny bringing UNH here, that’s, um, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Uh, it, and those are some very weighty challenges. What, what does that bring your mind to? What, what, what, what thoughts come to your mind as far as Vermont to kind of walk through some of that?

Jenny Froome (06:34):

Yeah, so much own immediately. I go to the, to the food security aspect and at the Oregon conference in, in August this year we had Yacko mass, who’s been on the, on, on the show talk, just talking about, you know, how do we know where our food comes from and, you know, what’s in our food. And I think that that is one of those big, big, big questions that we all have. And then there’s also the food wastage that goes on, not just on the continent, but in the world. Um, and it, and it is it’s, it’s horrific. And so any research that can go into, into that, the other thing, remaster that you mentioned about the electoral, um, supply chain, I can remember when I first started working with St. VIX, we had the independent electoral commission become members of say pics, and I can remember thinking why on earth would they want to be members of a supply chain organization? And then you stop and you think about the logistics and the supply chain around the whole elections, um, and the whole process. And it really is. It’s quite a, it’s quite a feat that I think a lot of people do take for granted,

Scott Luton (07:49):

Well said, well said, Jenny, Ramazzini, you’ll respond to that for a second. And then Jenny, we’re going to dive a little bit deeper into where, where we’re mottoes and it’s been that Vermonters have been spending our time, any, any thoughts there from to,

Ramatu Abdulkadir (08:02):

Yeah, I think that’s, um, very correct in terms of, um, food wastage is, and this is all closely connected to the transport logistics systems. And, um, I think there was a lots of discussions around use of technology, um, to improve the supply chains, which is really good also, um, looking at town class, um, there was a lot of discussions around sustainability and how to ensure that we minimize the risk stages in the supply chain right now. So I think that, um, just having people, um, really focusing and researching those emails to try and come up with some innovative solutions and we’re really helped, um, Africa right now towards our economic recovery.

Scott Luton (08:51):

Outstanding. Um, well the, well, you know, if they’ve got Ramazzini involved, Jenny, they got the best and the brightest. Uh, and, and I know we can make some progress on some of these big challenges. All right. So Jenny, uh, where are we going next with our dear friend of mine?

Jenny Froome (09:10):

Yeah, I was just, I was going to ask something that, that really, I find quite thought provoking is this discussion and knowing how passionate on the continent people are about education, um, and, and qualifications, and getting as many not letters after your name, just for the sake of letters, but learning, learning, learning. I was, I was quite intrigued by the discussions going around that several large organizations now and their recruitment plans are going to stop asking for degrees. They’re going to ask them be more interested in attitudes now for me as somebody, who’s definitely the letters after my name and QBE, which is qualified by experience. And that’s it. Um, it’s it it’s music to my ears, but I just wonder how you feel, um, about that. And whether you think that will sort of take the edge off, uh, people wanting to get degrees.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (10:12):

I, for me personally, I don’t think that will affect anything. I’m looking at the short term because I think it’s a great thing that this companies are doing experience is very important and knowing, or being able to solve problems for me, I think that’s the most important thing, but we also have to look at how our education systems have been designed. So it’s wanting to say, I wouldn’t be asking for certificates or degrees. So it’s another thing to look at the entire system when you’re looking at it from the perspective of an employer, definitely how’s employing all that we can for people that can do the job. I don’t care about the number of certificates you have. It doesn’t make any difference as long as you cannot deliver any funding to the customer or to the end user of my products or services. So that’s, it’s very important.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (11:10):

And depending on where you stand on that also we cannot take vacation. So for me, I don’t see education as just having degrees and all that. I think educational pools, you aren’t having degrees. There’s so much to learn and learning by experience. Like you talked about this travel experience. People just absorb this knowledge for me beyond, um, getting the certificates. So that ticket is just one, but I think the main thing is being able to bring solutions to the problems that we face. And if people that have experienced out to do it, why not? Why wouldn’t we take them? Of course, as a CEO or any CEO, any industry, you would want somebody that can do the job if it comes with degrees or degrees and all that. So for me, I’m a pragmatist when it comes to cigarettes, get things gone, whatever it takes to get things done, then

Scott Luton (12:09):

Both of y’all make great points there. And I think one of the, just my observation, whether it’s remotely accurate or not, I think that, um, in this era where selling certifications, selling degrees, you know, the, the, the industry boom, related to that. Yeah. I think somehow we’ve, we’ve trained students that, Hey, you focus on getting that degree or that certification and jobs and opportunity are gonna come with it. And, and, and some of that’s true, right? Some of that is true. There’s value there. However, I would argue as well when we’re talking about folks that can get the job done. I think remote too is how you put it. You know, those students that really apply themselves to the industry engage where it’s more about the overall journey, educational journey and, and, and where they see their wherewithal impacting, uh, current industry. And then you that in conjunction with a degree, with a certain certification, whatever it is.

Scott Luton (13:08):

I think those are the folks that are probably most valuable to the hiring managers out there, because it’s not just the fact that they were able to pass this test or that test, you know, get through that, uh, the educational, you know, check the boxes there, but it’s, it’s how they change who they are. And, and really bring, are able to bring more value to the table because they’ve got the, the textbook training, but then they’ve applied it to what they’re seeing and experiencing industry. So all of that makes sense, but we’ve seen a lot of that out in industry and, and, you know, Jenny and Vermont too, but all of us have been involved in networking groups, you know, for, for, for a long time. And I think we’ve all probably rubbed elbows with folks that just laser focused on just that additional LinkedIn accomplishment thinking that positive Pandora’s box was going to open up. And it just, it doesn’t quite work like that. Right.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (14:00):

It doesn’t work like that. And I think, um, also, um, what can we do in pockets? So the projects I’ve worked on, we’ve seen this problems where people have certificates cannot really add any value to the job. And, um, that’s why we try to walk in some universities. Then it could run as deep and trying to bring them experience now, real life experience to learn. And so that’s why I say it has to do with me. Our education is designed. They are designed to produce people that own certificates, which is wrong, really. You should produce graduates that have hands on experience of the industry that can go up there to solve problems, innovate, and think of new ways of doing things. So, so it’s, it’s, it’s the forecast and design, there’s a disconnect in our educational system. And I think we need to look at that. What is the problem I will just out to get certificates or do we want to get people out there that can do things and solve problems?

Jenny Froome (15:10):

Yeah. I was just going to say, we just did our students, our young professional student conference couple of weeks ago. And that whole idea came through really loud and clear was that one of the roles, I think that professional associations like St pics can actually fill is that work ready is connecting. The dots is making the working people deal with the students and actually help to prepare them for what it is that’s coming up. And we had one young man who had been a member of safety who actually got a job interview purely because not purely, obviously his CV looked good too, but the edge was given because he was a member of a professional association. And so, you know, that for me is great to see employers recognizing the value of network community, et cetera, and what that can bring.

Scott Luton (16:04):

I love that Jenny, what a great point, but both, and I love going back to your point, Vermont too, about holistically evaluating our educational programs and sports programs. It’s it’s how, how are we educating that vital pipeline of talent at all levels? Right. So I think that’s gonna be a big lesson learned and with action items, getting through the COVID time, as I know, Jenny kind of moving next with Vermont too. I think one thing you’ve got some questions around that, right.

Jenny Froome (16:33):

Well, I was just really interested, first of all, to hear you talk Gramar too about after COVID, um, because you know, here in South Africa, we’re still very much in, in the middle of it, not the middle, but kind of on the cusp of, and everybody’s now hypothesizing about fourth wave, et cetera, et cetera. But how have things been in Nigeria? I get such sort of mixed messages. And from your perspective, I know you touched on a while ago just about sort of being able to be involved in the initial vaccine rollout. Um, how have things sort of evolved in, in the year and a half? Actually, I think since, since that happened.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (17:16):

So the vaccine rollout has been pretty successful depending on how you look at their vaccines in the hospital have been the I’m fully vaccinated. So I’ve seen, seen how it walks and all that. I think the biggest problem we have on our hands now is vaccine hesitancy now. So you have the vaccines and people are interested in taking the box. So that’s something that also needs to be solved, but I think that, um, it’s not only peculiar for COVID, we’ve had that problem with other bucks and it all boils down to education, also trusts in the system. So when people don’t trust the system, they are not like me to go out there and get faxes. So it might be easier for those of all that healthcare, public healthcare professionals. We have more information to, to be able to make informed decision, unfortunately, that is not true for everybody else. So now we have to struggle with getting everybody out there to get vaccinated. So vaccine hesitancy is still a big deal. Um, there are people that feel, they run the vaccines and all that. So we need to continue to walk out in terms of sensitization. And I’m also showing people that I safe to get this vaccines so that they can go out there and get them

Scott Luton (18:45):

Trust. Trust is, um, as we all know, is that universal accelerant to any, almost anything, right? When you’ve got trust involved in a relationship or a product or a partnership, or you name it, we can move faster and have greater impact. And it sounds like, uh, Romanita we do have more, more, a heavy lifting to do in that regard. Um, okay, Jenny, we were talking pre-show about how the supply chains. I thought you had a great question, uh, how supply chains for other diseases have coped with all, you know, everything that’s going, that’s being pointed and directed towards, you know, the battle against COVID-19 where not to in any comments or observations there.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (19:28):

So, um, the supply chains for other, just like everyone else, um, people are running out of drugs and so many L supplies, of course, you know, the challenges of the pots in countries, um, contain us shortages of containers and, um, just moving products from manufacturers down here, especially that we do not have a lot of manufacturers who have to ship a lot of our products from China. So that problem here, because, um, and also the rising cost of shipment, it’s a problem put up really fast. And we’re trying to look at, it’s not even comparable, so we can’t compete frequently in terms of costs. So that is a problem for four people. So you need to get that sense. And, um, those medicines are not available or they are just too extensive for people to be able to, to get them. So that is impacting on access and affordability. And that is a huge program because what it means is that we’re going to be having problems with some other diseases. So they order the diabetes, hypertension, and even before COVID new and now they can get you even more expensive. And so as healthcare professionals, we have to be able to engage people and even policy makers to see how this medicines come to meat available for the people that really need them.

Jenny Froome (21:06):

I think it’s also, you know what I mean, measles measles is going to be all these vaccines that we’ve sort of taken for granted again, that suddenly people hadn’t had a choice. A lot of people in, in some countries made the decision not to, but in certain countries you can’t even have a choice because they’re just not available. And so therefore these, these sorts of things are going to come out again, then resurface. And I know that also birth control has been, uh, all the, all the contraceptives have all also been, um, supply has been disrupted drastically in, in various countries as well. Um, not just well because of COVID, but also because of infrastructure challenges as well.

Scott Luton (21:52):

So I want to shift gears to some good news from ought to good news. Cause, cause as you lay out there, I bet a lot of folks hadn’t even thought about and I’m guilty as charged having thought about the supply chains behind, um, uh, you know, other diseases, conditions, you know, the products and medicines, everything that, that addresses, um, the, the slew of things that impact us all. So that’s, that’s a great call out there. Um, but on a much brighter, uh, note, positive note, uh Romanita you know, last time we were chatting with you back in June, you talked about, um, you know, this opportunity and your career here to focus on research, right? And, and, and, and to, you know, deliberately and intentionally be that student of supply chain. Once again, despite everything you already know and being the expert that you are in your own. Right. So what has been, what has it been like for you to be, to have this opportunity to really spend your time studying global supply chains?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (22:52):

It’s been an exciting period for funny. I believe that, um, the research I’m working on, it’s going to really help the health care supply chains in Nigeria and even globally what we’ve done and how we’ve done these, to be able to fix it up on problems. So aside from the challenges of rising costs, because of transportation costs and difficulty in getting raw materials and all that. So because I’m working on performance management in my supply chain and trying to look at areas that we can maximize and reduce waste stages. So it’s very important that the resources that we have resources are always, they’re not available all the time. So we have to deploy them to the most critical areas of healthcare. If we have shortages in some areas. So let’s see, we have, let’s say hypertension, and, you know, every time we’re willing on new medicines and it just keeps coming out, they just keep pulling out moments from the manufacturers.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (23:58):

Now it’s important to really taste the medicines that we need to get, because we don’t have money to buy everything, but we can try to get things up very important to save lives. Those essential medicines that we can focus on. Janie talked about family medicine medicines have been even, they’ve been very difficult to get them to my kids and also the cost of getting them as expensive. But these are all areas that government and policy makers can focus attention now and try to get those mixes out for people to use and measuring the performance is important because we have huge wastage is in the system. And I believe if we can reduce those vestiges, we’ll be able to have more products available for people. Jenny also talked about infrastructure, very important. So Rachel Knutson’s transport networks ensuring that medicines get to the last mile in the best condition that they should be is also very important or else we’ll have medicines lost apple, Tennessee or something. So all these are up that if we can concentrate on them and as researchers, we can sensitize people about how to walk with the resources that you have areas you need to focus on in terms of your improvement plans, to be able to improve your overall network.

Scott Luton (25:26):

Okay. It just reminded me that that was a big thrust to what we talked about last time, continuous improvement, right? Uh, what rather than fighting in the, the moment to put out the fire or solve this problem or in a blocking and tackling that they get so much of our attention, Hey, how can we elevate and optimize overall performance? You know, what, what metrics are we not looking at that we should be looking at? What’s the, one of the big lessons or one of the big things we talked about last time, Vermont too. All right. So Jenny, when you hear that and you hear what we’re motto, just, just, uh, kind of rattled off there. What are some of your thoughts that come to your mind?

Jenny Froome (26:05):

I think I continued to go whenever I talk supply chain to other people, I’m continually reminded of a, kind of a really big COVID silver lining in that everybody’s starting to understand more about what it is that happens within the supply chain and, you know, we’ve all become using terminology that we never thought we would. I mean, you know, I never used to use the word efficacy in my whole life and that you start talking about vaccines and how they must be stored and what temperature and all of a sudden ordinary people are experts. And I think that, that it has huge, huge value. And we’ve, we’ve got to capitalize on, on that and the research that you’re doing remarks, he is going to, it’s going to change that exponentially because now we’ve got stuff backed up by facts. And I think that’s always the most important thing is that it’s very easy to, to quote. And I think the vaccine hesitancy has got something around that with all the misinformation that’s happening and people dealing with emotion, um, and talking with emotion and not based on facts. And I think that, you know, that’s where researchers are so underestimated in a way, because what you do gives us the facts on which we can base off conversations

Scott Luton (27:33):

Well said. And I would argue that the supply chain, the fact supply chain has been disrupted as well. The shelves that had plenty of facts or they’ve been empty at times, but it makes such a great point because inherently there’s a ton of emotional emotion and how we feel and how we’re perceiving, you know, this crazy time we’re getting through, but the facts and the science and, you know, the concrete information that we can lean on to make decisions is so important to your thoughts.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (28:07):

Yeah. I think that’s really important at the beginning of COVID much later on when the box came out, I was really surprised when some people started calling me and these are not people that we talk with frequently in what do I think about the vaccines? And for me, I was working then in this light and what normally on the foot ankle, and these were people that were very concerned and they wanted to know my opinion in terms of taking the facts based on all the misinformation out there. And I think this is that supply chain professionals can feel in terms of being, putting out the right information and courage, encouraging people, and also research in it’s very important misinformation out there and doing what’s right. What is the truth and what is not based on evidence and critical information. That is also information is one of the rules that we complete by disseminating the right information out to people, because that is our traditional, but I think it’s critical now we have to tell people, what is it right then? So I’ve had people tell me, okay, so each of the boxes should I take, is it more, you know, it’s such a huge challenge for professionals right now, and everybody needs to be, cannot credibility in terms of figuring out a way forward. So I think it’s very important that we put ourselves even more out there where we can read retail research going through all those information sits in Vermont and eating the right information, the public

Scott Luton (29:57):

Excellent point. And going back to kind of one of your earlier comments, I think I agree with your supply chain, practitioners and professionals are already kind of, their mindset is, Hey, let’s start, let’s get all the data on the table. Let’s get the facts on the table and figure out what we’re dealing with first. And then from there, we put our action plan or countermeasures together. That’s just part of who we are as practitioners. And I think to your point, Remont too, that’s been one of them, one of the most challenging aspects, all this, because at Tom’s, there hasn’t been that aligned central set of facts and truths to rally around. And I know that, um, Jenny, you and I have talked about that before, so anyway, great comment there, Vermont too. All right. So Jenny, you and I both kind of moving right along or motto, you’ve talked about your, your family and your daughters.

Scott Luton (30:49):

I wanna, I want to kind of move to, uh, on more of a personal note. I think you have three daughters and, and w uh, Jeannie and I can relate, uh, as, uh, mothers and fathers as well. And I think, you know, observing well, I’ll call observing some days, other days in terms of how they react. Other days it’s been coping and, and, uh, putting up maybe tolerating, you know, some of their responses to, you know, this, that and the other. Uh, and, and, you know, I’m kind of, as I say, all that, um, you know, maintaining that sense of humor has been, uh, has been really important here, but how have your daughters or Matu handled the pandemic and all that it has brought?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (31:30):

I don’t think that they handled anything it’s confusing even for adults. So for kids, of course, there’s that fear of the unknown, like so never experiences. We ha I have also never experienced a pandemic in my lifetime, so I could imagine what the kids were going through. So it was a difficult period for, for the kids. And we had to step in as parents to see how we can make it more varied, because that’s all we can to make it more beautiful. And now, of course, there’s lots of, um, lessons. So many lessons have been lost in between, and students are still trying to cope with the times that schools have been locked down, even though there’s been, um, e-learning and all that. It’s a steep for, for kids, you know, and, um, as a parent, you also have to be there, um, going through the lessons side by side with them.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (32:34):

So it’s been very difficult for, for this generation of young people. And I wrote that, um, it has really impacted the way they even think also and see life, because now you have to go to school with Tuffy slacks and, um, sanitize us supplies that we never had to fight for. And you have to keep on educating them also on the importance of hand-washing. And I’m mingling with people like four times just daily and, you know, for children that just don’t understand that it’s difficult. Like I can’t play with my friends that, so I think those are the, those category of people have been hit harder than everybody else, but as parents, we can watch them to eat and read, um,

Scott Luton (33:27):

Your thoughts.

Jenny Froome (33:28):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we we’ve had our 22 year old son, he came home for Christmas and he was still here until day before yesterday because he’s supposed to be studying in Spain. And, you know, the, there’s a reason why 22 year olds, aren’t still supposed to be living at home with their parents. And it’s been, it’s been a very special time, but it’s also been a very frustrating time. And it’s been fascinating watching how that they’ve become so immensely responsible way beyond their years. I think in, in understanding the do’s and don’ts, and, and also going back to that whole understanding of the efficacy of the vaccines and which ones and all of this research that they themselves have done. So as not to rely on, on the perils of social media. And I think that, I think that to a degree, there are lots of very, very responsible young people out there. Who’ve been put through a very difficult time. And as you say, as parents we can do is, is support and try to be as strong as we can be.

Scott Luton (34:39):

You know, I would add just where I see this one, the silver linings, you know, we thought, you know, on one hand we really thought we had a resilient, strong, vibrant supply chains. And then we really, we see how fragile, uh, many aspects of that in reality, as, as a pandemic has tested it and tested it, test it once again, on the flip side, now that I think as a parent, you think about how small your kids are, the learning perhaps, or free, you can use that same fragile description. But then I think what I’ve seen is despite all the challenges that you both point out and, and new challenges you got, they got the challenges of just being a kid, right, fitting in and social pressure and all that stuff that are timeless. And then they’ve got these unique challenges that none of us had to deal with.

Scott Luton (35:29):

But the silver lining from what I see is that these kids are more resilient than I ever thought pre pandemic. And it’s amazing how little micro studies and leadership it might be. It might sound cheesy, but I’m telling you, I’ve got a whole new found respect for how these kids have navigated and persevered and just dealt with, you know, even those times too, when we couldn’t make it better for them. And we couldn’t lessen the burden and we, we, we lose sleep at night, the kids fight through it and they just they’re they’re they’re troopers. And, um, so yeah, but too, I think as parents, none of that makes it any easier. Right. Because there are kids we don’t want them to, to, uh, have a bad day. Right? Yeah.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (36:15):

Um, I think that, um, you’re very right. The kids are even more resilient, just like Jenny said, they’ve had to grow up faster really because I’m taking on a lot of responsibility because of the COVID and all that in terms of their lessons and even thinking about their careers now, because things are different. So, um, some of the things that were more times before suddenly aren’t important anymore, um, even career choice, it’s, it’s, it’s different for people. You have to think about what you want to do. And, um, like I said, for us, as parents is just continuing to support, we can’t be too important because we’ve never been through this leap experience before. So for, for the child, the way that you preach the situation is different from how we preach it. And so we’re likely to see more kids coming up with different things. I’ve seen people that have just changed careers or a real life, just because of all that. So we’ll continue to play our roles as parents and that every,

Scott Luton (37:25):

And it will. It’s going to, especially with these folks on this panel here between Jenny and Monterey, Hey, one quick question, then Jenny, and then we’ll move into one of the final questions that we want to pose, but really quick, are we encouraging only everything we’ve seen, especially the last two years, are we encouraging our kids to, to join the supply chain ranks in their careers? Or are we cautioning them more after the last couple of years from off to what’s your answer? In a nutshell,

Ramatu Abdulkadir (37:54):

I, I don’t, I don’t encourage them to drink supply chain. I have someone in my house that is claiming to be, is what has never been to supply chains. And that’s the era. She thinks she, the supply chain, you know, that’s how you get to Dawn’s too. I think by just being out there and talking about it, you know, kids have a way of the sense of, it’s not like I sit them down and say, well, you have to be some people know, but now they all want to be supplied in the senior supply chain now like, wow, mommy, you, I want to be a supply chain now, too. So it does what they want to do. Of course I’ll support them to do that.

Scott Luton (38:39):

Yeah. That’s a beautiful answer. Intellect. I like Ozara, I think Zara has got something in common with our middle child. Gracie, you got to fake it till you make it sometimes, right? Yeah. All right. So Jenny, any of your thoughts there? And then of course we can move right into some of these final questions we want to ask a robot to today.

Jenny Froome (38:58):

Yeah. It’s a, it’s really interesting because yes. You know, there was a, there was an article written that’s apparently, uh, people are now avoiding supply chain management as a career because the responsibilities of being shown as being too onerous. Um, and certainly in the, in our student conference, somebody was asked, uh, is, is supply chain management to stressful job. And, uh, as kind of, you know, what he laughed and snickered, but he knows at the end of the day, there are what, what, what job isn’t stressful sometimes, you know? But, but yeah, there are moments I imagine then somebody went on to talk about how they were juggling, uh, port spaces for a ship and what it was containing and how quickly it was going to go off. And I’m sitting there thinking, yes, that’s a really good example of a stressful job, you know, makes event management that like a doddle really.

Jenny Froome (39:52):

But so, but just talking about our children and it’s a really interesting one because, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got I’ve, we’ve got four boys. So as the mother of boys, I ask the question always is, are we in danger these days of singling women out too much in the various awards and accolades and things that are going on and are we at risk of not disempowering, but somehow damaging the confidence of some of our young men coming up through the workforce and as the mother of mother of daughters, um, and a very strong woman in business, I’m interested to hear what your comments are about that.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (40:38):

Yeah, that’s a very good and um, I think it’s good to highlight women in supply chain in order to inspire, to join and reach for this task. I also think it depends on where your area, I mean, where you’re based. So for us in Africa, if you look at lightens, you find that women are just not there. Like it’s empty, nobody’s there. So maybe in Europe or America, maybe with your friends, you have more female representation. But if you look out here not much of that is happening. So I’m choosing small women in other tables it’s on us. I think it’s very important that we it’s more preventing women from being represented or being at the table. And some of these burials have to do with the past. We showed the time minutes, such as guilt, childhood education, culture, socioeconomic issues, poverty, and the policies also that do not even such as we cannot childcare.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (41:54):

So what can women on childcare leave sexual or reproductive health, maternal health, and just so many problems out there that are stumbling blocks for women in this industry. I think that’s why there’s always this need to shoot GS in order to have more women to come on board, have more diversity, inclusivity and equity and all that. I think you’re also right, because I think everybody is important and it’s just, it’s not just, it’s not a binary thing. There’s so many other groups out there that in excluded people, we have physically challenged people that also need to be on board. So we have to be able to keep all of that, um, on the horizon to be able to look at all that and see who are the people that are being left out in the supply chains. Do we need to get more of those people?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (42:51):

And I’m happy that a lot of supply chains are checking a box in their supply chains, tattooing. I think it’s important. It’s important for suppliers. You need to have more presentation and diversity in your suppliers, just like we have at the customer end. So as long as our customers are not monolithic, they are diapers. Then I think that people that walk into supply chain should be put on the percent of our end users. So it’s really important. So we have to put up, we’ll have to always check up polls and make sure that people are not meaningless, but it’s important to, to, because traditionally the policies and the rules and everything do not fit for women for now, that’s the way I see it.

Jenny Froome (43:43):

Great answer everything and more. And it’s, and it forms the basis of about a three albums.

Scott Luton (43:50):

Yes. Very comprehensive answer as well, because it’s really what it requires because it’s, it’s such a, um, um, there’s so much complexity right? Into truly ensuring opportunity and advancement for all. I mean, it’s such a, um, talk about some research that we’re gonna have to double down on. I want to get you all to respond to one other thing, and then we’ll, we’ll wrap, make sure folks know how to connect with you both. So we did an interview that we haven’t, uh, we’ll have released by the time this, this releases, but we sat down with three attendees of a recent women in manufacturing summit here in the states. And w we, we get, we sat down and got their key takeaways from the, and one of my favorite parts of the conversation that came up, uh, one of our participants said, you, you don’t need, I want to shout this loud for folks in the back for anyone listening, you don’t need permission to do what you want to do.

Scott Luton (44:45):

You don’t need approval. You don’t need a permission note signed by your parents or anyone else to do what you want to do with your career. And, you know, I think when I think of, uh, the last question to her motto and remarked to some of your, your response there, I think that all of us, uh, across gender lines across all the different demographics, I think there is some head trash that says, I need someone’s permission to go after what I want to do in this life. And I think when we have that epiphany, at some point in our careers, that we can do whatever we want to do, right? At least, you know, we may not have the right resources. We may not have wealth as defined in a lot different ways, but we’re able to pursue it without getting anyone’s permission. I think that is a really important message that our listeners, but also the folks in the next generation that are matriculating through high schools, or even as far back as elementary schools, they need to know that. And they need to know it as early in their journeys as possible. Jenny, I’d love for you to respond to that and romance it. Then I’ll come get kind of get your response as well.

Jenny Froome (45:53):

Yeah. What I would say is, is where that’s possible because there are still places where people and going back to Marty’s point, women do need permission to do certain things. And I think that there’s a difference between having self-belief and knowing that you can achieve anything. And I go back to that advice in the last interview, that remarks you would give to her, her daughters, which is to believe in yourself and don’t let anybody else tell you otherwise. And I think that there’s, that self-belief, that can actually then help you handle if you are in a place where you can’t necessarily just be that free spirit. And I think that that I’ve learnt it very, very late. I’m still learning how to believe in myself. And I think that it’s something that, again, as a, as a, as a parent, um, to be able to instill that in your children is a, is a phenomenal gift.

Ramatu Abdulkadir (46:52):

Um, for me, I see some of this platforms, like this are very important for children. Am I showing you a way to be watching it? And that’s very important because the message that they’re going to get from such discussions, kind of things have prepared them for their future. Um, there are things that we can see, it will change and come out or feeds. And also I believe other women and people that generally disadvantage or thinking you need permission to be able to do anything. All you need to have certificates. No, you don’t, you don’t need to have all that. You just need to be able to have fun that you can add to that people get that you should be able to forge ahead. And it’s also important to know that. So for me, one of the things I get asked questions when people ask me, so how are you able to do all these, your suit and all that?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (47:52):

And, um, I don’t wait for, for it to be perfect. You know, if you asked me to come on, it started inviting me. You know, I have to do some research and read around and all that, but I also don’t show up. So it’s important for us to show up and, um, be open to observing that experience. So I try to, to do that, even for this PhD, I’ve seen that with some of my colleagues and they think, okay, PhDs are very difficult. They are not, I’m not saying it’s not difficult, but I try to conform in what has I do? So I don’t let difficult walk me down. I try to catch it. This is an experience. So what are the other things I need to be doing apart from literature review on data collection, or there’s some guidelines or something I need to be doing networking, very important, meeting people that different experiences it needs to. I believe everybody, I’ve talked to that attitude being open to learning and just letting go of whatever is holding you up.

Scott Luton (49:03):

Love that. All right. So what I heard in your, both of your responses is that we want individuals to embrace that mentality. However, as leaders, we’ve got to find those obstacles and invest in a successful, effective, effective approaches to obliterating those obstacles, uh, across the industry that unfortunately still still remain. So, um, well said Jenny and Vermont too, I’ve really enjoyed our conversation today. I always want to full tone a few more hours, right. But nonetheless, uh, so what I want to do here, as we start to wrap first off, Jenny, I’ll put you on the spot here out of all that we’ve walked through here today with the one only Vermont to Abdul Kadir, what was your favorite thing that she has shared here today? Jenny,

Jenny Froome (49:52):

It was just so much so, so, so much, and there always is so much, but I think that, you know, for me, it’s not what you said, it’s kind of what you demonstration that that’s your love and your pride for your daughters. Um, I think that shines through every time you mentioned one of their names. So for me, that’s the thing is that you can, I think I’m always reminded of it. Remark to me when I meet you is that you can be an incredibly successful individual in your chosen field, but you can still be gracious, warm, and loving. And it doesn’t mean that you have to be a fierce, you know, you can do your job effectively by still being the essence of you. So thank you for reminding me of that.

Scott Luton (50:34):

Love that and the passion for industry and the passion for moving the industry forward in the current challenges and beyond, I think that’s what sticks out to me. So, Hey Komatsu, how can our listeners connect with you? And some of these cool things you’re doing?

Ramatu Abdulkadir (50:51):

Um, Scott, that’s very odd time. Like I do that. I enjoy meeting people and just sharing ideas and all that song on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook, I’m on Twitter. I try to be everywhere, but I’m more active on some social media sites, but if you can hit me up on any of them, we’re sure to continue this discussion.

Scott Luton (51:12):

Love that. Thank you so much Romano too. And Jenny, same question you and the safe team continue to do some big things, helping folks across Africa and really beyond frankly, I really enjoyed that young professional, uh, event that you all hosted. How can folks connect with you?

Jenny Froome (51:28):

Yeah, same as we’re marshy very active on LinkedIn and Twitter predominantly and um, and really anything that’s got tweaked look out for it. Cause I’ll retweet it unless it’s about

Scott Luton (51:44):

Baseball@whichpointicomeglazeglazingwellandsaypicks.org. Right. And that’s just, uh, I was about to say that, cause if you spell poorly, like I do you need a S a

Scott Luton (51:54):

That’s, right. Yeah. Well, Hey, you know, that sense of humor is so important. I circle back to, I really enjoy, you know, you got to enjoy what you do, but then there’s times where you’ve got to really lean in and find a way to get a giggle or laugh. And I want to wrap on this before we say a bit, I do the both of y’all. So, you know, blockbuster and Netflix had a strong competition way back in the day, right? Blockbuster of course, was the dominant, uh, video rental player. At the time, it was really committed to VHS tapes and, and that physical medium. And of course, Netflix was the upstart and Netflix disrupted everything. And now it’s been reported. They’re worth about $230 billion, Netflix, Netflix, but Jenny or motto for Tom there, they were fierce competitors and Reed Hastings who co-founded Netflix was being interviewed back in the early two thousands of how blockbuster was coming after Netflix.

Scott Luton (52:46):

And he said something like they’re throwing everything at us, but the kitchen sink. Right. And he was on the analyst call. So it was public. Uh, so the very next day Reed Hastings shows up at his office. And the folks at blockbuster had sent him a kitchen sink sitting there at his office, you know, and if two fierce rivals can have that degree of, of kind of enjoying the journey and joined the competition, you have a little bit of fun. Hey, all the rest of us can. So, so maintain that sense of humor. But Hey, most importantly, be like Matu and Jenny and the world’s going to be a better place and own that note. I want to challenge you. Hey, on behalf of our entire team here at supply chain, now Scotland signing off for now. Do good. Give forward. Be the change that’s needed to be just like [inaudible] and Jenny. And we’ll see you next time. Right back here on supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (53:41):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now, community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.