Environmental, social, and governance (ESG) programs are transforming how companies and industries operate, helping them balance short-term business targets with the desire to contribute to bigger picture good. For consumer-facing companies, the challenge is even greater because they need to be bold and hold themselves accountable without diminishing the overall consumer experience.

As Vice President of Global Head of Sustainability & ESG at Crocs, Deanna Bratter is responsible for helping the company meet its aggressive social and environmental commitments. She and her team are proving that it is possible to deliver a unique product with a high-quality customer experience in a world-conscious way… while also running a profitable business.

In this interview, Deanna speaks with co-hosts Scott Luton and Karin Bursa about how Crocs’ ESG initiatives are intertwined with their growth strategies:

• The surprising similarities that exist between the natural food industry and the fashion industry – especially where sustainability is concerned

• How the team at Crocs defines their ESG vision and how they are working to operationalize that consistently across their operation

• Why suppliers and supply chains are critical to turning sustainability goals into measurable impact

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those Making Global Business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, Scott Luton and Karin Berser with you here on Supply Chain. Now welcome to today’s episode, Corin. How you doing?

Karin Bursa (00:40):

I’m doing great, Scott. Been looking forward to this conversation

Scott Luton (00:43):

We have too. And you know, we’ve been very fortunate, uh, to, uh, interview other leaders from this or this, this, uh, very hot organization. Uh, we’ve also talked about how our family members are big fans of the brand that we’re gonna be talking about here today. But in particular, Corin with this business leader here today that’s doing big things out in the industry. We’re gonna be focused really on E S G and especially sustainability should be a great conversation, right?

Karin Bursa (01:06):

It should be. I’m, I’m looking forward to learning more about what they’re doing because they’ve been, um, you know, very, um, upfront and, um, aggressive about some of their plans, and I can’t wait to hear what she has to tell us.

Scott Luton (01:21):

That makes two of us. So, with that, let’s welcome in our featured guest today when welcome in Deanna Brater, vice President and Global Head of Sustainability with Crocs. Deanna, how are you doing?

Deanna Bratter (01:34):

I’m doing great. Thanks so much for having me today.

Scott Luton (01:37):

You bet. Well, hey, thanks for carving out some time, uh, Corrine. I bet, I bet she’s got three or four full plates, don’t you think?

Karin Bursa (01:43):

I’m sure. And I bet she can switch her shoes in between, you know, in between courses too,

Scott Luton (01:48):

<laugh>. Right, right, right. Well, um, and as we mentioned on the front end, uh, I look forward to, you know, one of my favorite things to do, uh, cri you and I have chat about the state, is really learn the operations and the business side behind some of our favorite brands. And Deanna, thanks for giving us that opportunity here today.

Deanna Bratter (02:04):

Absolutely. I’m happy to be here and talk about our awesome brands and how we bring sustainability to life.

Scott Luton (02:11):

So, uh, you me, you mentioned the magic word. Before we get into that, let’s learn more about Deanna Brater. So I wanna start credit, and I wanna start with, hey, where did you grow up at Deanna?

Deanna Bratter (02:22):

Uh, well, I was very fortunate to grow up in sunny south Florida, just outside of Fort Lauderdale, but I have called Colorado and the Rockies home for almost 20 years now.

Scott Luton (02:32):

Oh, so you get a native badge in Colorado after 20 years, right?

Deanna Bratter (02:36):

Uh, they hold those native badges pretty close, actually. <laugh>, but yes, been here a long time and, and love to call it home.

Scott Luton (02:42):

So, Corin, you can relate here cuz you also grew up, I believe in South Florida. Is that right, Corrine?

Karin Bursa (02:47):

I did, I did. I grew up in Palm Beach County and I was blessed to live for about a year and a half in Denver. So I got a little taste of the Rockies too, and it’s pretty special as well.

Scott Luton (03:00):

Mm, I agree. So Deanna, uh, and maybe Corrin too, who knows? We’ll see. We’re gonna find out. Uh, Deanna, what was one of your favorite parts? Like I immediately, of course, you go to sunshine and theme parks and friendly people, but the food in South Florida is where my brain went to. So what was one of your favorite, uh, food dishes grown up there in south Florida?

Deanna Bratter (03:20):

That is a hard question. <laugh>. Uh, well, I’m a lifelong vegetarian, so I don’t know how far my recommendations go. Um, I always like to say if Colorado had the beach and the ocean, it would be the perfect place to live. Okay. Um, but growing up in south Florida, especially as a vegetarian, there are some phenomenal South Indian restaurants down there, uh, that are definitely my favorite.

Scott Luton (03:42):

Completely agree. And, you know, speaking of Indian cuisine, I was, uh, in Denver here recently and, uh, uh, I think a small local, um, maybe a chain, maybe just a one off restaurant called Little India. Um, I can’t remember the section of Denver I was in, but holy cow. It was delicious, Deanna and Karen. So little shout out to those great folks over there. Um, let’s talk about, um, prior to your current role. So we’re gonna focus in on what you’re doing at Crocs here momentarily. But before you joined the CROs team, what’s a, a role or two that really impacted your worldview and, and your leadership approach, perhaps?

Deanna Bratter (04:18):

Uh, great place to start. Uh, we’re definitely built by the experiences that come before. So I spent, um, the last nearly 20 years in the natural products and natural foods industry, uh, moving into the food industry and really focused my career and my journey and my learning journey on sustainable food systems. So it’s been quite an incredible step to get into the world of fashion and retail. Um, but ultimately in, in my career and my journey with different brands working on macro sustainability challenges, so carbon emissions, natural resource use, supply chain complexity and transformation, sustainable innovation, the list goes on. There’s lots of topics in there, uh, but the idea is really to find interventions and solutions that can help address these challenges, uh, and as they emerge because this is a really fast changing, um, area of focus. And as the business changes, so does sustainability.

Scott Luton (05:16):

That’s right. And, and Corin, um, on the front end of our answer now, I’m always, uh, very appreciative that as many differences as there are between the different sectors of, of global business, there are some really key common themes and best practices that we can lean on. Your thoughts, Karine?

Karin Bursa (05:32):

Oh, absolutely. I think, um, o obviously Deanna’s been in some businesses that are leading edge and looking to do something different in the marketplace while providing really high quality experience for the consumer. Um, so to do that and to do it in a world conscious way, shall we say, while looking to run a profitable business, it’s challenging. So I can’t wait to hear more.

Scott Luton (05:59):

No kidding. Um, okay. One quick follow up question, Deanna, uh, to the sustainable, uh, food systems you mentioned. Um, if you can, is there one thing that maybe listeners would not connect the dots on to, uh, sustainability and food with, with what they purchase at the stores or, or dishes? Is there anything that really sticks out in terms of a, a key lesson that you learned during that phase of your career that would be interesting to share?

Deanna Bratter (06:26):

For sure. I, I think there’s a lot of interesting things to share. I think when you look at the food system and the farming systems that support the food system, and then the role that fossil fuels play in the food systems, farming systems, and now as I step into the fashion system, you find a lot of similarities and a lot of highlights. I think the best thing you can do as a food consumer is look at the ingredients and for as much transparency as possible. And I think transparency is a theme that you’ll see in my approach to sustainability. I absolutely think as a food consumer, really looking, um, at those ingredients where they’re coming from is one of the best things you can do to stay informed.

Scott Luton (07:05):

Oh, great points. Um, you know, and one last thought around the food supply chain. Corrine, you may remember this episode, uh, roughly six months or so ago, I interviewed a pollination expert and we talked about that component really incredibly, uh, important component to food supply chain and, and how a lot of the environments that our pollinators lean on are unfortunately, uh, going through some, some big time change. So thank you for sharing, uh, Deanna, uh, around you some, your background.

Deanna Bratter (07:32):

I’ve had the opportunity to work in the pollinator conservation and protection spaces as well as regenerative agriculture and really figuring out the connection to the land and the decisions we make in bringing our ingredients and our products to life, and how that, um, flows through the entirety of the system. So, uh, it’s really powerful. I’m glad you guys, uh, leaned in and learned more about that.

Scott Luton (07:53):

I love. Okay, so clearly Crocs signed a, a heavy hitter, uh, to their team, their leadership team here with your hire. So let’s shift gears there. Um, let’s talk more about Crocs again for the, you know, two people out there that, uh, is unfamiliar with the organization. Tell us about Crocs and then tell us also about your role that you’re leading there at Crox.

Deanna Bratter (08:13):

All right. Uh, so Crox is a world leader in casual footwear for adults and children. Um, through our CROs brand. We’re the leader in molded footwear, and we also welcomed another brand, uh, last year, the Hey Dude brand, which is one of the fastest growing additions to the casual and comfortable footwear market. Uh, so we’re really excited to have these two incredible fast growing brands united under the Crocs Company mission for everyone to be comfortable in their own shoes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, with that mission, we’re driving home this purpose, which is what helps drive our action, and that is to create a more comfortable world for all. So I’ve been really fortunate to join the Croc team with this incredible mission to help define what is creating a more comfortable world for all look like, and setting the strategy that inherently is driving that. And I can talk more about that if you’d like to j dive in.

Scott Luton (09:06):

We’re about to dive in, Deanna, cause I love so much of that answer. And, and just going back to, um, and Karen to get your response, everyone being comfortable in their own shoes, there’s so many valuable, positive meanings to that phrase. Corrina gets you to respond before. I’ve got one more question for Deanna.

Karin Bursa (09:23):

Yeah. I mean, comfortable in your own shoes is really important, but feeling good about the products that you’re buying, I think is important as well. And as you know, Scott, we’ve covered this a number of times. Um, they’re generations now that that is their focus. They want to work with brands that are socially and environmentally conscious about the products they’re bringing to market. So I think it’s a really exciting time and Crox is doing some interesting things.

Scott Luton (09:51):

They are, and we’re gonna get to that. So I wanna, before I turn over to Corrine, um, let’s, you know, consumers, investors, I think we’ve kinda alluded to here, really increasing their focus and their priority on brands with those well-structured environmental, social and governance ESG initiatives. We all, we love our acronyms across the supply chain for sure, but you know, for as much as many common ways that maybe we look at ESG initiatives and what we think about what they comprise, what are some, uh, there’s also plenty of unique nuance and, and unique aspects to those, uh, strategies from company to company. So, uh, Deanna, to start with, how does Crocs define E S G?

Deanna Bratter (10:34):

Yeah, so there’s definitely alphabet soup when it comes to acronyms, uh, in many areas, especially sustainability. Um, so ESG and sustainability are often used interchangeably, and they are definitely deeply connected. Um, I like to think about ESG in terms of the stakeholders responsible for the company, for the identity of the company, for the culture of the company, for the decision making. Um, and those stakeholders include the board, the ceo, executive leadership, employees, shareholders. Um, so there’s a lot of stakeholders that help us figure out sort of who we are as a company. And then I’d like to think about sustainability in terms of the relationship we have with the world around us. So our business and the communities we impact our business and the environment that’s giving us our materials or that we’re impacting with our production. And so simply, the, the idea here is ESG is how the world impacts a company or an investment or a sustainability, how the company impacts the world. A little, a little simplistic for sure. Uh, but a way to help sort of navigate how sometimes we use them interchangeably, because you never really have one without the other.

Scott Luton (11:44):

Yeah, well said there. Cri, I wanna toss over to you, you know, respond to that definition and then I know we’re gonna find out a lot more about, uh, croc’s e s g journey.

Karin Bursa (11:53):

Yeah, absolutely. Um, th that is so interesting and thank you for that, that perspective, that point of view. I think that that’s, that’s one I’m gonna carry with me for sure. When you look at the, the journey that Crocs has been on as a company, where do you find yourself today? Do you consider yourself in the early stages, uh, Deanna, or, uh, is Crocs leading an industry segment?

Deanna Bratter (12:17):

Uh, so I would say both. It depends on how you slice it. Um, for sure, we are early in our sustainability journey, having just set our carbon goal a little more than a, a year, year and a half ago. Uh, really defining our strategy going forward and, and building a lot of the fundamentals. But I think when it comes to fashion and footwear, uh, consumers are hungry for companies to lead. And I think Crox is really uniquely established with the Crox brand, having a product that inherently is a much lower carbon footprint than competitors, while staying affordable and accessible to global consumers. So I think, um, our innovation and our product and the way we’ve really looked at the development and the future of our product, I would say is, is leading through that innovation lens. And I would say regarding some of the more traditional ESG establishing targets, establishing baselines and sort of building the fundamentals of good corporate citizenship ES g program, we’re definitely earlier in our journey, but we’re making incredible strides.

Karin Bursa (13:18):

I like that. Incredible strides just kind of naturally flows there when you’re talking about, uh, innovative footwear. When you think of innovation, you think of product innovation, um, and fashion, right? Which is your business. And fashion means short life cycles, it means new colors, new uh, features for products. How do you design that into the products? So you’re starting, you know, at the get-go before the product ever comes to market while thinking about this strategy and this initiative, um, and the desires of your consumers.

Deanna Bratter (13:54):

Great question. With our shoes, we are very fortunate because inherently our product is designed to last a very long time and have a lot of use cases in your day-to-day where Crocs are showing up. Uh, maybe 20 years ago when we first started taking off as a brand, you would hear a lot of folks saying in the garden, uh, you know, while I’m doing housework, and now they’re in the workplace, they’re on the go, they’re even on the red carpet. And so the uses of the sh of our shoe, of our iconic classic clog, um, are really everywhere and incredible. And they last an amazingly long time. We’ve also designed innovation around customization. So we have our charms or our gts where you can really personalize them for use case and different occasions. So I think you’re starting to see, um, how fashion can not necessarily be fast.

Deanna Bratter (14:46):

Now certainly there’s an inherent tension in fashion consumption, wanting to have all the colors and all the styles. And I think the way that we look at that is you can feel good from a starting place that per pair, our classic clog is about 2.56 kilograms of emissions per pair. That’s about a quarter of a gallon of gas. So as far as you drive six miles, is the emissions on the full life cycle of one pair of Crocs. So that’s a pretty incredibly low starting place. Doesn’t mean we can’t do better, uh, and we’ve got lots of, uh, things in the works to do that, but it means, compared to other shoes you might be buying with more components, uh, that might not last as long we’re from, from a carbon perspective, we’re starting off in a really great place.

Scott Luton (15:32):

It, Corrine, if I could, uh, interject for just a quick minute and respond to what Deanna said there. You know, the data, you know, we’ve already touched on this a couple times, but consumer data, uh, time and time again shows that, um, uh, consumers more and more are looking for that app, what I’ll call apparel with purpose or apparel with practicality in some cases more than than fashion itself. It’s really amazing what we’re seeing the evolution. So that, that Dean, that’s really cool to hear. Corrine, sorry, I wanted to interject really quick and, and, uh, uh, share a couple tidbits.

Karin Bursa (16:03):

No, absolutely. I, I think, um, consumers are looking for brands with purpose and, um, and our fashion, um, both from a functionality perspective, but also from an individuality perspective, I think is, is a great way to do that. So when you mention mentioned things,

Scott Luton (16:20):

You mentioned, uh, you mentioned earlier as you were opposing that question to Deanna, that consumers are also really appreciating our craving market leadership. And I can’t agree, I I I I almost said amen. Shout out louder for folks in the back when you shared that. I think, I think really we’re seeing that a lot more and more, uh, companies that we have a lot of respect for those first movers that are serving as an example of how we, how we drive change.

Karin Bursa (16:48):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one thing I can tell you is that Crox is growing. Um, they’re growing like gangbusters. So they’ve, um, really experienced some tremendous growth over the last couple of years. And I think that that is elevating their platform even more. So, Deanna, when you think about that, you think about the growth, the growth in the product portfolio. I know that, um, that Crox did an important acquisition as well, which expanded, uh, beyond the crox brand to include the hey dude brand, um, again, known for comfort and casual style. So it’s a great fit with their portfolio, but that gives you that much more opportunity as you look at your initiatives. Tell us a little bit about that. Tell us what it’s like at scale as a part of a growing double digit growth company that’s in this hot space of, of, uh, casual footwear.

Deanna Bratter (17:47):

Great. So it’s fun, <laugh>, uh, it’s, it’s really fun to be part of a fast growing company. It creates a lot of opportunity for the easy conversations. How do we, um, resource and invest in sustainability as we’re growing and hard conversations? What are the trade-offs we need to make to move fast to grow the brand, to keep our cost and our, our affordability high? So we’re really taking a quite a broad approach when we think about sustainability. We have three pillars that we focus on our core sustainability, which is really around our environmental impacts. And we call this, um, comfort without Carbon or comfort for the planet, and really linking the importance of our product, uh, and purchase drivers to our sustainability journey. Then we have our, uh, inclusivity pillar. So we’re working hard to be an inclusive employer to reflect our consumers and the communities who are passionate about our products.

Deanna Bratter (18:41):

Um, so where we live and work and really bringing that inclusivity not just into our business, but also out through our products. And then the last one is comfort for our community. So we are committed to being good corporate stewards and to engaging in the communities globally where we work. We’re really proud to be a global brand, um, with, with global growth. And so this comes to life in nonprofits that we partner with in our giving strategy of giving, um, not only funds, but giving time and giving shoes, and really making sure that we’re connecting on timely human needs. So what is the impact we wanna have for society and what role do we play, um, as a good corporate player in the sustainability space? So when you look holistically at our strategy, uh, you know, pretty straightforward, uh, sustainability, community and inclusivity, this is really where we’re building the foundation for both the Crox brand and the Haddo brand so that we can show up and that we can make change. And, um, to the point earlier, we know that this is what the consumers of today and the consumers of the future are looking for. And we feel really not only well positioned, but proud of the stand that we’ve taken, um, to be an inclusive brand to, to engage with our communities and to be really driving sustainability through our platform and our products.

Karin Bursa (19:57):

Dana, when, when Croc started this, when did Croc start this focus in a specific area of sustainability and, um, uh, e s g initiative? When, when did it start and how far or how long did it take before you felt like you were making a measurable impact?

Deanna Bratter (20:17):

It’s a great question. So this is only a 20 year old brand. We just celebrated our 20 year anniversary, and we’ve got a lot of players, uh, companies that I’ve worked for in the past, other major players in sustainability who have been around a hundred plus years working at this, at, at various levels. So I would say since Crox was created, there was an eye on simplicity, and simplicity often lends itself to sustainability. I would say in the last couple of years, we’ve really started to accelerate. So our commitment to net zero, uh, that we established just a couple of years ago, and then recently, a really incredible innovation that we’ve been accelerating over the last two years, um, is incorporating bio-based material into our classic clog and into all of our products, which use a resin that we refer to as crosslight. So if you know a croc, you know, this material, uh, it’s, it builds the foundation of comfort.

Deanna Bratter (21:13):

Um, and this molded footwear, uh, that is, um, I, you know, our iconic styles and it’s in all of our products on the CROs brand. So, um, bio-based material is coming through a partnership with Dow, and this innovation has, uh, it’s called equilibrium, and it’s the idea of we can take bio waste or byproducts from other industries and use it as a replacement for a fossil fuel that might have created the product and the resin for the product in the past. So, um, this, uh, bio-based material is a huge part of our transformation strategy, and we’re really looking at it portfolio wide. So all of our products that have crosslight are in a transition to include more biomaterial, and the material itself is coming from, uh, byproducts that you might find in used cooking oil, uh, or tall oil, which is, uh, waste product out of paper mill recycling.

Deanna Bratter (22:03):

So really cool innovation here, using things that might otherwise not have a purpose and putting ’em right back into our shoes as a drop in replacement for other resins, uh, or materials that we’re using. So the idea here is, while other companies might have a sustainable shoe, uh, I should put air cuts, a sustainable shoe <laugh>, uh, where if you’re looking for a sustainable shoe or you’re willing to pay more for sustainable shoe, you can go get one. But for Crocs, you can feel good that we’re incorporating bio-based into our entire line of footwear rolling out as as we can scale up percentage by percentage, um, and that every pair of Crocs you buy are going to include bio-based material and get our carbon footprint even lower, already low, even lower.

Karin Bursa (22:48):

That’s, that’s exciting. And, and, um, that’s putting it into your design and your materials. Tell us a little bit, Deanna, about supply chain being kind of in the front line of your initiatives as well, right? The, the cost to not just to produce those products, but to move them to market. What kind of things are you doing in that area?

Deanna Bratter (23:11):

So supply chain is inherent in all sustainability. Our partnerships with our suppliers, uh, manufacturing material inputs along the way. So one of the biggest things when you have a carbon goal is to set your baseline. So we’ve been on a journey for the last 10 months, uh, to really understand not only where our emissions are coming from, but make sure that we have a crox brand footprint. And now that we’ve welcomed, hey, dude, relining to understand where we are as a company in terms of carbon emissions, from there, we start to understand where our major impacts are. Uh, so materials being one, um, manufacturing being another, and transportation and distribution. You can find those at the top of most, uh, fashion products, especially footwear in terms of emissions. So now that we know where to lean in, we start to really look at the pieces of the supply chain that are most instrumental in us understanding where the emissions are coming from, what the opportunities for reduction are, um, and forming really strong partnerships with our supply chain partners so that we can drive change over time.

Deanna Bratter (24:17):

And a really important thing here is sustainability takes time. If there’s anything I learned from coming outta food systems, you can think to farmers cultivating every year you have a new crop, materials are very much the same. You need to create the materials. There’s a, a really integrated manufacturing process, then there’s transportation. Um, the system itself takes time. And the integrated nature of the system is where we can find the biggest opportunities to influence sustainability. So there’s obvious ones like transportation and distribution use more efficient transportation, use less fuels, use less air, and more, um, marine sh uh, maritime shipping. So there’s a lot of opportunities we can find in there, but I think the reality is looking for biggest impacts and then building reduction strategies tied to those, uh, over time is really the way that we’re approaching this on our journey to net zero.

Karin Bursa (25:12):

And, and has it, has it changed your criteria for the partners that you work with? Do you approach new partners or your existing partner network with, um, you know, some specific, um, criteria as far as production and distribution? Um, packaging, uh, go.

Deanna Bratter (25:31):

Yeah. Supplier relationships are critically important at every level of a successful business, right? And your suppliers fit into your business strategy, and if you’re doing it right, your sustainability strategy fits into your business strategy and is deeply connected. So for Crocs, we have a high set of standards that we expect of our suppliers. We have, uh, statements of compliance, we have code of conduct, we have restricted substances, we have, um, obviously quality, uh, checks and performance, and we have, uh, social compliance, um, audits. So right now we have a very comprehensive process where we’re working through, um, connectivity and visibility in all of those fronts with all of our tier one suppliers moving into our tier two even more fully. And then really looking at transparency, uh, which is one of the big challenges in the fashion industry is really understanding not just your tier one and tier two, but your 3, 4, 5, 6, and even seven, depending on how complex your supply chain is. So the better visibility we have, the stronger we can make partnerships. So we set those expectations, um, and then we work together to make sure that it’s a, a strong partnership for the business and from a sustainability lens.

Scott Luton (26:39):

Hey, Greg, if I can really quick, um, I, I’m loving what we’re hearing here on so many different levels. Uh, going back to, uh, some of her earlier responses, you know, making no assumptions, right? Really doing the homework and making no assumptions about where the sustainability gains will come from, um, doing it with their suppliers, not to their suppliers, but with it really in a very forward-looking way, right? Because as we’ve talked about time and time again here at Supply chain now, um, that old phrase, dig your well before you’re thirsty, you can’t all of a sudden microwave relationships, you know, that you, they’ve gotta be part of the cultural approach to supplier development and supplier relationships. And also knowing what I think, I think the billion, one of the billion dollar ideas that D shared with us is that she, she and the team know that the real gains are in the systemic aspect of what they’re trying to do, not the quick wins and quick hits.

Scott Luton (27:31):

Those are important, right? For momentum and, and, um, uh, and the asprit de corps and the sheer outcomes and results. But that big gains is when it becomes part of the overall holistic system. And that is, um, that’s a really important thing for our listeners to remember there. One last thing, Corrine. Cause um, Deanna mentioned, Hey, dude, a couple of times, a new exciting, uh, line. Is it just me, but when I think of, Hey, dude, and I’m gonna change my association after this interview, I think of there was a Nickelodeon show in the late eighties and early nineties nineties called, Hey dude, do y’all remember this? Or is it just me, <laugh>, I’m gonna change my association?

Deanna Bratter (28:09):

Sadly, I do. Yeah, time to time to up update that association. Yes,

Scott Luton (28:13):

It is,

Deanna Bratter (28:14):

Um, definitely encourage you to check them out. There’s this phenomenon where once you put on one pair of, Hey, dude, and you’re like, wow. And then you end up with a handful more. So <laugh>, well, clearly you’re really comfortable, super, um, creative in terms of the styles and, and the types, the fabrics that you can get. It’s a really fun line. And I think if you haven’t seen ’em now that you’re aware of the brand, it’s one of those that you’ll just start seeing ’em everywhere.

Scott Luton (28:38):

I’m going out and to get a pair, and clearly we already have a super fan and the Bura household, right? Are sharing something free show

Karin Bursa (28:45):

<laugh>. Yes, we do. My husband is quite a, has been quite a fan of the CROs products for years, especially the loafers. Um, uh, fortunately because he has a really big foot and seeing, seeing that size foot in the, uh, the classic, um, crock is, is a little scary, especially in a bright color. But, but the, uh, the loafer styles work really well for him, <laugh>, so

Scott Luton (29:10):

I’m gonna get some thank you

Karin Bursa (29:12):

Right now. Thank, thank you for that. And, and the hey dude is, um, is a really nice looking shoe. Um, that’s, that’s really comfortable as well. So, um, lots to choose from. Lot more than you think from just the classic, uh, the classic clog style that’s been out there. Uh, you know, Deanna, I have a question, a burning question. When I talk to companies about their sustainability and their E S G initiatives, um, a lot of times it’s countered by finding the green and green initiatives, right? Finding the profitability for the business in, in green initiatives. But, uh, we are seeing Crocs go through a tremendous growth trajectory right now. Clearly the sustainability initiative, the E S G initiative goes well beyond, this is not new, it’s not new to the business as you just told us. The, the brand is roughly 20 years old in the marketplace and was kind of built with an i in mind, um, to be a high value product that, um, that is sustainable. When you look at all of these initiatives, because it is investments, it’s, it’s, it’s looking at the best way to work with partners. What would your advice be to other brands that are looking to, um, to be profitable, to grow their business, but also to be responsible in the way that they do that? Any words of encouragement there?

Deanna Bratter (30:46):

Yes, it is, uh, certainly the challenge of sustainability, the idea that it needs to be a trade-off needs to, needs to be in the past, uh, because the fact is good ESG practice and strong sustainability is about what I like to say, finding the and profitability and sustainability good for people and good for planet, good for business and bottom line and good for your carbon targets or sustainability. So if you take this mentality of finding the, and you’re pushing into innovation, you’re pushing into creativity, and you’re really looking to partner this idea of investments, um, where you might have to make them, because that is a, a fact with beneficial reduction opportunities. So if we know that we’re going down a path where we’re gonna need to make some investment, let’s parallel a path of a project that’s gonna give us, so it doesn’t always have to be the same project, um, but we definitely wanna look holistically to find the balance.

Deanna Bratter (31:45):

So if the, if the project isn’t a slam dunk and it’s not able to generate those cost savings, uh, which a good place to look for those is often energy use is often waste, uh, waste reduction recycling, there’s oftentimes financial savings and sustainability savings. But when you go beyond those, um, the idea that you’re gonna have long-term opportunity and you’re gonna need long-term investment. And so how do we balance short-term investment, short-term results with long-term investment and long-term results? The other thing is we have to start challenging ourselves to remember that business resiliency, um, is tied to sustainability and risk avoidance. So we know that the impacts of climate change, the impacts of the crazy weather that we’re having in many places can have impacts on raw materials like cotton on transparent, uh, or efficient transportation. And so we want to, to think long-term resiliency, the better that we can do as a company to address sustainability and do our part, the more we can build in resiliency, awareness of sustainability strategies and, and really strong programs to help us, um, be proactive in addressing those needs. So big piece there for anyone starting out is we’ve gotta really think short-term and long-term hand in hand. And as a publicly traded company and a fast growing company, um, we gotta give ourselves credit for those short-term wins and keep the eye on the prize around long-term transformation.

Karin Bursa (33:11):

Yeah, I think that’s so important. And, and you, um, you know, you talked about things so naturally when we think about key performance indicators in this area, right? We, we think about fuel consumption, we think about waste. What are the top three key performance indicators you keep your eye on for the business as you head the initiative really, um, for Crocs?

Deanna Bratter (33:35):

Yeah, so we’re looking at metrics across our initiatives of community inclusivity and sustainability. So one of our big ones is carbon. Um, carbon is often a lagging indicator, right? You’re looking at a year past of your carbon emissions. And so really connecting your emissions with your actions and being able to embed, uh, uh, carbon and understanding of carbon in upfront decision making. So we won’t always say, all right, this shoe is heavier than our iconic clock. That means it probably has more emissions. Are we gonna launch it? Are we not gonna launch it? That’s not usually gonna be a sustainability decision, that’s gonna be a business decision, a consumer decision, but the fact that we’re stopping and having the conversation to say, we’re making a decision that’s gonna increase our footprint, and we know that we have a net zero goal, how do we then need to adjust the plan to account for this is what business transformation is about.

Deanna Bratter (34:28):

So really, even though sustainability folks have to focus a lot on lagging indicators, looking for the opportunity to influence decision making upfront and look for leading indicators, uh, where you can kind of adjust the levers up front and then have that impact on the backend is really important. Um, I think we’re definitely looking across d EI initiatives and making sure that we’ve got really strong KPIs in place there so that we can feel great that not only are we building a culture of inclusivity that we’re showing progress over time, um, and our community piece and having some sort of indicator that says, not just are we giving a lot of funds, but giving a lot of shoes. We’re so proud to do that, and it’s so important for us to be able to give back, but what’s the impact we’re having on people? Um, so we’re really proud of some recent initiatives. We’ve done this gray campaign called Free Pair for Healthcare over the last few years, and we’ve given hundreds of thousands of pairs. Uh, we did, uh, an effort recently this year to raise funds, and we donated more than 200,000 pairs of classic clogs to Ukraine refugee relief efforts. So there’s a big role that we have to play, and I think really focusing on not just what, what you’re giving, but how many people you’re impacting through that work and where the need is, is another really powerful, uh, measurement tool that you can use.

Karin Bursa (35:45):

Yeah, I agree. Companies,

Scott Luton (35:46):

I agree. Go ahead.

Karin Bursa (35:47):

Oh, I, I agree. Um, Scott, you and I have talked about that before and, and, and we’re well aware of the crox initiative during C O V D and, and just helping to take care of our healthcare workers and, and that, that kindness. Yes. But it is a functional product that just made the hours and hours they’ve been on their feet that much easier to, to absorb.

Scott Luton (36:14):

Uh, yes, absolutely. And companies that lead, companies that lead, you know, this is, I think the third Crox executive, Karen, you and I have had a chance to, uh, sit down and interview with, and they’re so, um, the sense of purpose, and it’s really a common theme here. And, and the actions and the outcomes and the deeds, not words. I love that aspect of the Colts, uh, the Crocs, uh, organization. All right. So, um, again, really appreciate you carving some time out, as busy as y’all are at Crocs and, and all the change, you’re all driving a lot of what you touched on here and, and cor as we’ve mentioned on on some of the earlier episodes we picked up, uh, my mother is retired registered nurse. So the love y’all have put, uh, um, and, and, and how y’all have embraced the healthcare community that’s gone through, you know, something we’ve never seen in our lifetimes. I mean, I really admire what Crocs did there. Um, so let’s do this. You were just, you kind of just, uh, offered up a masterclass <laugh>. So many tips on, for folks that are out there leading and fighting their own ESG journey and looking to drive real outcomes and real change, um, beyond all of those best practices and some of your expertise there, is there anything else you’d like to share or recommend to people that are out there, you know, fighting in the trenches?

Deanna Bratter (37:28):

Sure. Well, first of all, thanks to your mom and all of the hardworking healthcare workers out there. Um, it, it’s just an incredible feat, so always in awe and supportive, even though I know I’m doing some hard work over here, I am not on the front lines, uh, with all those important healthcare workers. So, um, I would say, uh, you know, I talked a little bit about focusing on impact and what the outcomes are. We talked a little bit about sort of short term, long term, and that is around sort of incremental versus these big transformational ideas. I think the biggest thing that sometimes we jump over is backing up and setting that vision. What is it you’re trying to do? In the grand scheme of things, most of our companies are going to be a small percentage, even a rounding error in global emissions, right?

Deanna Bratter (38:13):

We know that it’s going to take the action of many to make change. So for all these individual businesses, it’s so important to have a mission and to have a vision that’s aligned with your product and aligned with your core business strategy that is going to help you set the intention for sustainability and purpose. Once you’ve got that, all the other pieces start to come in in place. But sustainability is 50% about action and 50% about influence. It is not going to take me and a team of folks with the title of sustainability to make the change. It’s going to take all of the individuals cross-functional across teams and throughout the supply chain to actually make that impact and change the decisions into more sustainable, more environmentally, uh, beneficial, more inclusive decision making in the day-to-day. And that all comes from having a clear purpose, uh, with a really strong intention from day one. So if you’re at a business and you’re not quite sure how sustainability fits, it’s going back to the mission, figuring out that purpose connection, and using that to help influence those leaders and that decision making, uh, and business strategy going forward. All the rest starts to come into place after that.

Scott Luton (39:22):

Wow. Corrine, I love to GetResponse.

Karin Bursa (39:25):

I could, I could just keep listening. I know. I’m just like, oh, yeah. I love the way she said that. That’s so good. All right. Um, and, and I love the passion with which you’re, you, you share, um, what, what you’re doing at Crocs, and obviously, um, I, I know that our listeners are gonna be just really inspired by this, but I like the intentionality, the fact that it’s designed in to the products, that it is also designed in to supply chain decisions, that they look at individual products, but also the whole product portfolio as well. And they’re doing it for a brand that is, is building a follower base and, um, you know, a community of customers that just feel good about the product that they’re buying and wearing every day.

Scott Luton (40:13):

Yeah. Com very loyal of community at that, so Well said there. Corin. Um, okay, I bet as Corin alluded, I bet there’s gonna be lots of Deanna Brater fans and our global ecosystem after hearing in the last, uh, 40 minutes with you. Um, how can folks connect with you and Crocs, Deanna?

Deanna Bratter (40:32):

Well, you can find out more information about Crocs and our E s g and sustainability journey through our 2021 ESG report, which we issued last year. Uh, it’s on crox.com, our investor page. And then keep your eyes out for our 2022 report coming the first half of the year. So we’re doing our job, all those disclosures, but we’re also trying to tell the stories of the initiatives that we have, um, and what we’re doing. Um, you can also stay connected with Crocs on social media. We have an account on just about any channel platform out there. And then for me personally, you can find me on LinkedIn.

Scott Luton (41:05):

It’s just that easy. And folks, you’ll be able to find a lot of the, those links in the show notes, uh, on the episode page. So, Deanna Brater, vice President, global Head of Sustainability with the Crocs, thank you so much for your time today.

Deanna Bratter (41:18):

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was great talking with you both.

Scott Luton (41:21):

You bet. Okay, Corrine, man. Um, there’s so many of my favorite parts in the last, uh, hour or so, and the, you, you hit on it, the passion, I mean, the expertise. Been there, done that, of course, uh, Deanna’s got that by the truckload, but the passion, uh, is there any doubt that she and her team are gonna be out there driving real change, both within the walls, so to speak, and outside of it, right?

Karin Bursa (41:46):

I think absolutely. But, but what came across to me with that passion, Scott, is that it’s not just her team. It is the business. So across the board, as a part of the strategy for Crocs, for their product portfolio, for their supply chain team, this is embedded, right? This is part of the DNA of what they’re doing from product design as we heard, right through to product delivery. So that to me is really exciting. And I like the way she expressed, and people and planet, not people or planets, not a trade off. And we do hear those trade offs quite often, but that it is in fact, inclusive and that they look at those equally for their business that made an impress impression, right?

Scott Luton (42:36):

I’m with you and to our listeners, Hey, find the, and there’s so much importance there, and that’s, that’s like, uh, whether, uh, uh, relates to your esg, uh, leadership supply chain, just your view of humanity. I think you find the, and I think that’s such a great piece of advice amongst everything else that Deanna shared. So big thanks to Deanna Brader and the Crocs team for spending some time here. Hey, big thanks to Corrine Bursa. Uh, Corrine, how can folks connect with you?

Karin Bursa (43:01):

Yeah, hey, find me on LinkedIn as well, and, uh, and be sure to check out, uh, supply chain now and Tech Talk.

Scott Luton (43:08):

Awesome. Well, a pleasure to connect this conversation. What a great conversation here. Thank you so much, Corrine. Hey, to all of our listeners out there, hopefully you’ve enjoyed this episode as much as we have. As Corin mentioned. Be sure to find supply chain now, wherever you get your podcast from. Hey, find us on YouTube. It’s one of the easiest ways to connect with our content and participate, even more importantly, participate in, in our shows and programming. So, on behalf of the whole team here at Supply Chain Kren versus, uh, Scott Luton, signing off for now, but challenging you. Hey, be like Deanna Brader, do good, give forward, be the changes needed, and we’ll see you next time. Right back here at Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (43:45):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain now, community. Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain now, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain. Now.