Delving into the art of content creation and storytelling within the business landscape, today’s episode, one of the best livestreams of 2023, features award-winning content creators, Jason Hoch and Sean Kipe, and Supply Chain Now host Scott Luton.

This conversation covers diverse topics from engaging audiences to navigating criticism, and emphasizing the significance of genuine storytelling. They share anecdotes, discussing the challenges and rewards of capturing unique stories, and highlighting the power of trust in business and content creation. Throughout the episode, practical tips emerge, such as the significance of quality over speed, the value of listening, and the necessity of investing in storytelling for lasting impact.

Listen in and learn:

• How to craft compelling narratives that resonate with their audiences while navigating the ever-evolving landscape of digital content creation as a business professional
• How to emphasize authenticity, connection, and the value of investing emotionally in storytelling
• The importance of patience, preparation, and quality in content creation
• How a commitment to innovation and pushing the boundaries of storytelling in today’s dynamic business environment can set your content apart

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the voice of global Supply Chain Supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from Those Making Global Business Happen right here on Supply chain. Now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey everybody. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, Scott Luton with Supply Chain. Now welcome to today’s live stream. Now, on today’s show, we’re featuring a very special and unique conversation. We’re gonna be talking all about digital content creation, and we’re gonna be learning from two of the best pros out there doing it today. So, as y’all know, the ability to create quality, compelling, effective content, it’s no longer just a Hollywood thing, right? The global business world has become quite the content factor in recent years, and we’re gonna be sharing perspective, best practices, expertise here today that will be helpful as you create your own content in 2023 to better reach and engage prospects, customers, and really the market in general. So stay tuned for a great show here today. But hey, before we bring on our outstanding guests, wanna make one quick programming note along these same lines.

Scott Luton (01:23):

So our supply chain now team invites you to join us along with a couple of other digital content creation pros from SAP and IBM for our live webinar on March 21st, where we’re gonna be offering five tips for creating effective digital content. Same thing we’re gonna be talking about here today. So Greg White and I look forward to, uh, hosting Ursula Ring and Brandy Boatner for what promises to be a wonderful live event. We’ve got the link to join right there in the chat. Okay, well, I am, uh, really stoked about the conversation that we have here today beyond what we hear from our guests. Make sure you drop your thoughts in the cheap seats, as it were up in the comments. We’ll share those with our guests, and we’ve got the next hour teed up for a great conversation. So I wanna bring in our featured guests here today, Jason Hoke, president Podcast at Imperative Entertainment.

Scott Luton (02:13):

And Sean Kite, host, writer, producer of the award-winning in the Red Clay, and Fox Hunter Podcasts. Hey, hey, Jason, how are you doing? Hey, how are you? Happy Friday. Happy Friday. Great to see you once again. And Sean Kite, how you doing? I’m good, man. Thanks for having me in here. You bet. Hey, we’ve really enjoyed some of our pre-show conversations, uh, uh, been of course tracking y’all down from afar, all the cool projects and really the stories and the compelling content y’all been creating for years now. So thanks so much to you both Jason and Sean for carving some time out there. Speak to our global, our global fam here at Supply Chain now. So are y’all ready for what we call a little fun warmup question here? Let’s do it. All right. So we love our music around here. We love our sports around here, and I’m a big old history nerd, so <laugh> where all those things intersect on February 3rd, 2008, one of my faves all time faves, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers performed at halftime of the Super Bowl. I can’t believe that’s 15 years ago. So with that said, and Jason, I’m gonna start with you. What is one of your favorite all-time Super Bowl performances?

Jason Hoak  (03:31):

So it kind of surprised me, but thinking back to someone I didn’t really follow and pretty blown away when I saw it was Bruno Mars 2014, and the energy and the passion behind that performance was really great. And then the next year, I have to do this on purpose. I can’t get away not saying this, Katie Perry the next year is widely thought to be one of the best performances. She did a podcast with us this, uh, last year, so I have to include her because she deserves it on her own, but it was really good too. So very different choices for sure, but equally good in their own right.

Scott Luton (04:07):

Completely agree. And we, and we maybe we’ll touch on that Katie Perry collab that you had, Jason Rashan bringing you in. Now you are beyond how we tee you up, award-winning content creator, you’re, uh, one heck of a musician that I think plays a variety of instruments. So I’m really curious to hear your pick here.

Sean Kipe (04:25):

<laugh> Mine’s kind of a tie, I think between, and I love Tom Petty too, but you already went with that one. So I’d have to say Michael Jackson of course, just because you know what a show he does anytime he performed. But between him and Prince, you know, doing Purple Rain in the Rain, I think that’s probably looked at again as, as was one of the best Super Bowl halftime performances,

Scott Luton (04:53):

Man. Absolutely. And you know, we were talking pre-show, so y’all, y’all picked some big winners. And by the way, Amanda, a big thanks to Amanda and Catherine behind the scenes helping make production happen. Amanda says, love Bruno Mars, lady Gaga. That was a good performance Prince has Sean mentioned in 2007, and obviously Dr. Dre and Snoop last year, man, that was quite a, uh, medley of performances and Katherine’s holding down to Fort for on YouTube. Happy Friday to you as well, Katherine. One last thing, we’re gonna move into learning more about you both, but the pr the Star Span Banner by Whitney Houston back in the early, uh, 1990s. Man, that’s one of my all time favorite performances. And as Jason and I <laugh> remembered pre-show on the other side of the coin, Carl Lewis, it wasn’t Super Bowl, but Carl Lewis, Jason attempted to sing the Star Spangled Banner at a NBA game. I think once that we got, I think the world got a good chuckle that up, right?

Jason Hoak  (05:47):

Yeah. It’s, it’s, when you say bless his heart, it’s just one of those things you say when you, and, and you know, you see the guys on the sideline just trying to cover their mouth and <laugh> tried his best <laugh>,

Scott Luton (05:59):

Oh, that’s so good. And hey, I’m not throwing stuff. I’d be the same way. I, that’s why I don’t sing in front of folks. But hey, Shelly is also a big fan of Prince and that purple rain in the rain, Shelly, great to have you back. Always enjoy your perspective during our streams. Okay, so I bet we could talk music for quite some time, but I really, I’m looking forward to picking both of your brain and getting your expertise and sharing that with our global community here at Supply Chain now. ’cause as I mentioned, content creation and effective content creation, it’s really universal these days, right? In terms of the value of communicating messages and stories. So Jason, we’re gonna get to know both you a little better. I am just honored to have you part of our journey here as one of our formal advisors. We’ve learned so much from what you do and you know, you’re humble, but you’re quite dynamo. You’ve worked on the executive team at the legendary How stuff works, then went on to lead a variety initiatives, including producing and creating several bonafide number one Apple Podcast hits, like Atlanta Monster and Monster of the Zodiac Killer. And that’s just the tip, tip tip of the iceberg. So tell us more about yourself, Jason.

Jason Hoak  (07:03):

Yeah, I’m lucky enough to be one of those Gen Xers that kind of has grown up with digital in the internet and, and don’t know any other way. And I’ve always kind of focused my career around media in, in the internet space with a little bit of tech and telling and finding stories all over the country is, uh, it’s pretty amazing. I’ve really have the best job in the world, uh, if you even want to call it a job, right? To be able to go and just find people. I tell this story often when we were producing BoomTown, which is the, uh, the podcast we did a couple years back with Texas Monthly. I’m out in the oil fields with Christian Wallace, who is, uh, was the writer in the house, but also, you know, a former Wildcatter who worked in the field. Wow. And you see the big towers with the flames shooting off the top.

Jason Hoak  (07:58):

You can’t believe it’s actually happening. And the Permian Basin where all this oil’s being dug up and how that is a critical resource in the world, but that region in America, in America is probably one of the most important areas of our country, if not the world. And what I realized is I knew nothing about it. I knew nothing about this region about what was really happening. And I also did, didn’t know anything about the people that lived there. And so through Christian and through kind of everything that we did, something snapped in me that day in 106 degree heat <laugh> in the middle of Texas. And I, it just, it crystallized the fact that I, I realized that the kind of stories I wanted to tell were not the kind of comfortable ones that where you’re sitting behind the mic all the time. It’s where you’re going out to different parts of our country or the world.

Jason Hoak  (08:52):

You’re finding those areas, you’re transporting listeners to those regions, taking their them there with, uh, and then you’re getting to know people you wouldn’t normally otherwise meet. And so audio in particular can be this wonderful transportation mechanism. Uh, but in order to do that, you’ve gotta put in the hard work. You’ve gotta get on the airplanes, you’ve gotta go in the 106 degree temperatures. And looking up now through my time at Imperative, I’ve done like 23 of these Wow. And these series. And Sean and I have spent many a day in 90 or a hundred degree heat next to the Mulberry River with metal detectors and shovels and all that stuff. And we were kind of miserable at the time. But I think what we hear from the audience is, wow, that’s really cool. I can’t believe you did that. That’s why we do what we do.

Scott Luton (09:44):

Man, I love how you put it out there. And I’m, and Sean, I’m coming to you next. In just a second, I’ll give a quick shout out. Hey, T squared, great to have you back holding down to Fort Force at YouTube. He says this Gen Xer can appreciate, Hey, this Gen Xer can also appreciate what you’re sharing. Jason, Karen, great to see you here today. And Amanda is also a big fan. Lena Munster she says, is amazing. If anyone hasn’t listened, you can check it out there. Thank you for sharing that. And Gino, great to have you along for the ride once again, looking forward to your perspective. Okay, so Sean, Jason kind of teed up there nicely because literally millions of people around the world have enjoyed your highly successful podcast, hits in the Red Clay and Fox Hunter to name a couple. Probably Tell us more about your background.

Sean Kipe (10:26):

My background primarily comes from music. I, I’ve been in entertainment for the past 20 years in one form or fashion, but music is where I got my start professionally and, uh, as a recording artist, in some bands that you may have heard of, you may not have most people recognize the calling and the song wherever you will go, which was the number one song of the decade, 2000, 2010. And so that’s, that’s my background performing at touring and traveling over the, across the world doing that stuff. And it’s very, it’s very different than what I do now, but it’s all still content creation. And of course, I started in an age that was not digital <laugh>, you know, I mean, it was <laugh>, you know, and, and I can remember when MySpace first started and, and Facebook and these things that gave you a new avenue to share your art or whatever it is you’re creating with people that you wouldn’t normally have access to. Hmm. So it’s incredibly important. But I remember that time that was before that <laugh>, and it was like if you wanted somebody to hear your stuff, you, you had to get them to a show or to whatever it is you’re doing or you had to go to that now upload, press a button and it’s available for the world instantaneously. And that’s an amazing thing that’s really changed everything,

Scott Luton (11:45):

Man. Completely agree. And, and it’s wonderful on the consumer of that content side, right? ’cause you’ve got all that, those stories and information and ideas at your fingertips, but it’s also very a democratic element to it for content creators out there. ’cause it’s very low barrier to entry, which, uh, we love as well, right? Depending on who you talk to. 3 million podcasts out there and growing. And that’s a great thing about this world we live in now. And, you know, y’all both are, so you approach all that you’ve done and the accolades and the recognition and both of you. So largely focus on the craft itself. And I, I really, really appreciate that. Alright, so speaking of the craft, and Sean, I’m, I’m gonna stay with you here as we kind of our, our core question here as we try to offer up tips for folks, regardless wherever they are in their journey of creating digital content, what are some good, best practices? So Sean, I’ll start with you. What’s one tip that you’d like to offer our audience here

Sean Kipe (12:39):

As far as creating content? Yeah.

Sean Kipe (12:42):

Find a way to connect with your audience, whatever that audience is. You have to, in my opinion, find a way to connect with them on as many levels as you can. And certainly for my projects or for music, music’s is a little different. But the podcast, you just have to, you have to find a way. There’s so much content as you mentioned out there. There’s access to so much, the attention span of people is shorter than it ever has been in human history. And it just is, there’s so much out there that you have access to instantaneously. You have to find a way to connect with people emotionally, if possible. And I think that’s one thing I guess that I’ve done. Well,

Scott Luton (13:22):

Well clearly have. I mean, you, you got folks showing up here your first time ever with us, and you got fans following you. I mean, clearly you’ve established that connection with the folks that have consumed your, your products and stories and projects. So you’re living, you’re, you’re, it’s not lip service, right? You’re practicing what you preach. I love that.

Sean Kipe (13:40):

Yeah. Yeah. You’ve gotta, I think along with that, you have to do a project that you care about. To me, at least in this line of work, you have to care about what it is you’re doing. Mm-Hmm. Uh, and I think pe when you do, people can see that. And, and I think that makes it easier for them to become involved in it and to share it and talk about it and think about it. So. Yep.

Scott Luton (14:01):

Well said. Sean. Jason, I’ll get you to comment before we get, we’re gonna cover probably three or four of these tips. And before you share any, I’d love to get you to comment on what we heard there from Sean. Yeah,

Jason Hoak  (14:11):

I think that’s right. I mean, you can’t really fake the heart and soul of something. We can all, and we see many examples of the kind of content factory churning where you see a lot out there. You’ve mentioned 3 million podcasts, but you know, name 10 for me that stick with you. And part of what we try to do is create memorable experiences that memorable something that sticks with you to me is more important than anything else. And like Sean said, it’s an emotional connection, but people need to know that you’ve put everything out there. And for me, that’s just, that’s the heart and soul of what we do.

Scott Luton (14:49):

Yeah, well said there. All right. So Sean has shared, you gotta connect with the audience, right? And clearly it resonates. He also said, you, you’ve gotta care about the content you’re creating, right? Because everybody can tell when you’re mailing anything in. And that’s whether you’re creating content, building good old PowerPoint. I mean, back in the old days, every, you can tell when folks are, are just plugged out and just going through the motions. Jason, what’s one of your first tips here for creating good content?

Jason Hoak  (15:14):

So I think it’s letting, like, this is gonna sound a little strange, but letting go of fear is a really important part of kind of crossing the bridge to having those conversations with people and sitting back and actually, so I’ve had to make some tough calls before. I know Sean has too, have some uncomfortable conversations. Not everyone that we talk to is a hundred percent an angel. They’ve had their own kind of controversial things that they’ve gone through in their life. And it’s sometimes it’s really hard to pick up the phone and have an uncomfortable, uncomfortable conversation or be in front of someone knowing that the answer may not go the way you think it goes. Mm-Hmm. Or it might go, and I just, I’ve, it’s a learned thing that I’ve had to embrace myself over the years is letting go of that fear of what if someone doesn’t like me?

Jason Hoak  (16:12):

Or what if this isn’t good enough? Or should I even start this? And just doing it. The, I think we’re all content creators and it comes with a couple different angles here. One is it’s pretty frictionless. So I can get a TikTok or an Instagram or anything, I can pretty much do that on my phone by myself, but I think, or a podcast, right? But I think the good ones pay attention to them, that emotion, that realness, that conversation. But I think the audience also realizes that there’s a lot of work that’s done behind the scenes. Preparation research, people put themselves in your shoes and they start to understand what you’ve done. And, and so letting go of fear and anxiety when you’re gonna have those conversations is extremely difficult. Just like getting started sometimes it’s all really hard. It isn’t, even though we’re living in this world where it’s kind of easy to just push record to do it right, and to do it well, just takes, it just takes something else emotionally that it’s just not easy and it’s just the way it

Scott Luton (17:28):

Is. I’m gonna share all of that with my three kids because I think get letting go of the fear is one of the biggest challenges that holds so many people back. Right? I know it’s held me back at various times in my journey. And the other thing that, that, and Sean, I’ll get your take here on what Jason just shared, one of the things that comes to my mind as Jason, you were sharing that is the man in the arena, right? I, I think I’ve got that title right by Theodore Roosevelt, I think wrote that part of a speech or something. And I think when I think of that, it’s not just about the content creator, but I think all of us, whether they’re colleagues or fellow content creators, or just members of the audience, and understanding even if you’re not gonna give too much of too much love for somebody, ’cause you maybe don’t like whatever they’re doing, and just understanding and empathizing with how tough it is to put yourself out there at various times. So Sean, talk to us about what we just heard there from Jason about, you know, letting go of the fear.

Sean Kipe (18:18):

That’s a big thing. I mean, I could just echo really his thoughts on that. And we’ve had this conversation, and I think when you talk about digital content, you put it out there, how do you know it’s connecting with people? You read comments and reviews and ratings. And while I love that stuff, it’s all, it’s a double-edged sword because you could have 500 reviews that say, oh my God, this is the best thing I’ve ever heard or seen. And you could have one that is, this guy is terrible, and that one is the one is gonna be the one that sticks with you if you let it. And I think that along with that fear, you, you’ve gotta realize that no matter what it is, no matter who you are, you cannot and will not please everyone. And there are people that think the Beatles are terrible <laugh>. You know what I’m saying? So I, I think anything you’re creating, you just have to accept that there’s that margin of people who are gonna think what you’re doing is terrible. Yes. Don’t create content for those people. Create it for the people who love what you’re doing and support what you’re doing. And that goes a long way for your mental health <laugh> and your, you know, your overall, just how you feel and, and that ’cause it can affect, negatively affect the the content you create if you let that stuff get to your head.

Scott Luton (19:37):

Beautifully said man. Beautifully said. All right, so I wanna share a couple quick comments along these lines. Karen. Yes. Being unapologetically, authentically you. Yes, absolute. Karen, hope this finds you well, great to see you here. Always enjoy your contributions to our shows. And Brandy, Brandy Hill’s from Temple, Texas. And I love this next comic. It reminds me of Johnny ca, uh, cash song. I’ve been everywhere, man. Now I’m not sure if Johnny Cash and I’m not gonna sing any more of that. I’m not sure if Johnny Cash might mention Temple in that song. But branding, uh, welcome in and I bet Temple Texas is a wonderful town. Finally, before we move to our next tip, Amanda, I’m not gonna share it because it’s a really long quote, but thank you for pulling that the man in the arena, I’ll just quote a little bit of this quote. It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better end quote. Y’all, check that out. There’s a lot of inspiration you can draw from the man in the arena and uh, of course it applies everybody. All right. So now that we’ve gotten our first two tips, Sean, I’m gonna circle back to you. What’s your second tip for folks out there trying to develop content that matters, content that really engages and, and is effective?

Sean Kipe (20:45):

It’s probably touches on something Jason mentioned earlier in a way. But I think personally investing, and you could draw the parallel that this is also care about what you do, but personally investing, Jason mentioned you’ve gotta be willing to sometimes get on the airplane or stand in the heat. I agree with that. And I think that separates a project that is just created to create a project versus something that you want to be and will be hopefully impactful on different levels with people. Because at the end of the day, when you walk outta the movie theater, what defines a good movie? You had a good time or you didn’t. What defines a movie that is really good like Oscar worthy? It’s when you walk away talking about it and discussing, God, if I was in that situation, what would I do? You know, how would I, to me that’s what we’re trying to do. Create something that you don’t just listen and go, okay, what’s next that you, you want to talk about it, you want to discuss it with your, you know, we have people that say, yeah, we were, your podcast was the topic of discussion at our Thanksgiving table, that that has affected people and that that’s the goal. So I, I think again, that just kind of echo what he said, but being personally invested in what you’re doing.

Scott Luton (22:05):

Yep. Jason, I’d love to get your comments here, what Sean was just saying.

Jason Hoak  (22:09):

Yeah, that’s it. People sob when they listen to some of these podcasts because they are connected and it’s not an easy thing to, uh, to pull off and fa frankly,

Scott Luton (22:22):

I wanna speak on before I, I circle back to Jason and get the final fourth and final tip here today for content creation. I wanna touch on something that, that Sean mentioned earlier goes without saying that the pandemic, the lockdowns, all that we’ve gone through together globally for the last two or three years, as much as I, and, and, and this is just what I am submitting to you, I’d love to get both of y’all’s take as much as that has enabled and technology is, has leaped and bound, and as, as everyone’s working from a home studio these days, it feels like there’s lots of, of tailwinds for creating content. But to your point about your mental health shot, the criticism there, there’s a lot, still a lot of hurt and pain out there. And sometimes that comes out in how folks re react and respond to content. And man, Sean, like you said, you can have a thousand positive comments, but that one mean vindictive comment from someone that just maybe is coming from a bad spot, man, that just creates more hurt. And sometimes it can feel you. But I’d love for y’all to kind of comment on that, Jason, comment on, on, you know, last couple years and, and how folks and the mental health aspect here. Well,

Jason Hoak  (23:26):

So what’s interesting is another thing that’s changed significantly over the years is we used to turn on the TV to watch Cisco and Ebert give us a review of the movie. And now we’ve got Rotten Tomatoes and other formats, which is, everyone’s a movie critic, everyone’s a critic in general. We’ve got comets and ratings and stars on every platform. And no offense to the, to the reviewers, but they act like they’re Cisco and Ebert sometime. And they don’t realize when you say things like, this host is terrible, this story is boring, you don’t know what you’re doing. I always say, it’s okay if you don’t like something, just don’t be a jerk about it. And I think we’ve given ourselves license as the unofficial critics of everything to hate everything. And I think it really is a divide of like 50% of people love something and the other 50% of people hate it. And I tune into a lot of, you know, the HBO Sunday night theories that are so wonderful and then I spend money on Tuesday looking at all these articles from journalists doing all their version of handwriting of like, why this was bad or how this broke cannon or right.

Scott Luton (24:47):

Ripping it apart,

Jason Hoak  (24:48):

How this was terrible. And I just think we need to relax a little bit and appreciate this stuff for what it is, which is people are really working hard to create really great stuff. Just enjoy it for what it is. And if you don’t like it, just move on. ’cause there’s 2,999,000 all the podcasts you can listen to. And we got our fans and Matt love us. So what can I say?

Scott Luton (25:12):

Absolutely. Well, hey, uh, and Seanna, get your take here, but I wanna share this from Darla. Darla, great to see you here via LinkedIn. Thank you. I was just creating content and came upon this live stream. Hey, you’re gonna get some great inspiration from Jason and Sean here. So Darla, great to have you. And T squared says he’s smelling, looking inward and re reno investing in, uh, renovating and personal investment. I’m sorry, I got that wrong. Hey, that reflection is so powerful T squared. I know that’s not the word you used, that’s kind of what it hit me, man. Pausing production for a second and reflecting on what you’re doing. That’s where I’ve made some of my biggest gains. Sean, talk about kind of this in this arena we’re all in, whether we like it or not, when it comes to creating content. And I’m then I’m gonna get Jason’s last step.

Sean Kipe (25:55):

We live in the age of internet trolls, which is is really something that obviously with, as the internet has grown and and expanded, it’s something that is relatively new for the human experience. Everybody’s, I think people have always been opinionated. I have, but now they have a format, now they have an arena to voice that every little thought. And it’s kind of like that, you know, I, I don’t know, my, my dad told me one time when I was younger, it was like, you don’t need to say everything that comes into your head. Sometimes you can just keep it to yourself. And now you have this arena where people can, it’s so easy, oh, I hate you, you’re you. Whatever you do is terrible and there’s no reason. And and it’s probably not even that they hate what you’re doing or that they really, you know, I think the other aspect of this is that it’s sad to say this the way society is now. There there is just a percentage of the society that does not like to see something be successful. Game of Thrones is a good example. Oh

Sean Kipe (26:55):

Man, it’s so wildly successful and it’s obviously well done. You can have somebody who’s never even watched it. It’s not like I’ve watched this entire series and I don’t like it and here’s why. It’s, that’s not for me. It’s terrible. I have no interest in it. And, and everyone keeps talking and I’m using this as an arbitrary example, but sure. You know, people, it’s almost sort of like, oh God, people have talked about this so much, I’m gonna be the anti this. You just kind of, that’s all you can do. You know, what do you, you know what I mean?

Scott Luton (27:29):

Oh, well Sean, we haven’t talked about this, but Amanda and I are big fans of Game of Thrones direction in the middle of rewatching it. I think for the second or third time, it’s meant the storytelling on multiple levels is so interesting. But going back to your point, what both of you’re saying it we do, uh, the democratic element that we were lauding earlier, right? And celebrating, it’s there on the review side and the consumption side and we still love it. But to all of the folks, and we’re all critics man, just know that those are humans making that content and that they get, it’s a good thing that they get your feedback. But man, that can have a big impact. Good. A big impact. As Shelly says, I love a good debate and discussion, but the trolls just insult complete lack of facts. Amanda says, people will complain about anything.

Scott Luton (28:17):

The National Park Yelp reviews are priest <laugh> hilarious. She says, if you hadn’t read them. All right. So, and, and one last thing, and Jason, I promise come to you next for the fourth and final tip. Greg White, who’s not with us today, he’s my partner in crime. He likes to say yes, there are things that need to be said and then there’s some things that you have to say and there’s a big difference between those two things. So love that, that comment there Sean. Alright, so Jason, so much going on here. I really appreciate y’all’s expertise, being able to kind of peer into your minds to folks that are making it happen and putting stuff out, creating things that resonates with so many globally. What’s your final tip for folks creating content? This

Jason Hoak  (28:57):

Is a good one. I think listening is so key to everything that we do. And that may sound very, very simplistic. And what I mean by that is, again, going out and talking to people out in the field. Most people have never been on camera before. They don’t know what it’s like. They’ve probably never been interviewed for a podcast. You know, we’re not kind of out there to get something from them. We’re really there to hear their stories. And this is not a race or some game. It is someone’s life. And so when any of us show up to do these interviews, good, bad, challenging, uncomfortable, whatever, just as the producer or creator or interviewer, you’ve gotta take yourself kind of out of this situation and do listening and step back. And I’ve learned something, and this is not a trick, but it is something, it’s an observation.

Jason Hoak  (29:55):

When you get people on camera, they get really uncomfortable. ’cause they’re, they don’t know, where’s this going? How do I look? What camera am I looking at? And they kind of clam up a little bit because it’s kind of over before it started with audio. What’s so fascinating to me is just got this little like lapel mic or maybe a microphone in the middle of the room. And after about 15 minutes of conversation, people forget that they’re even micd up. And you see this relaxation that happens. And if you are able to control yourself and do this listening and ask the right questions and ask people questions that maybe they’ve never been asked about ever, they will probably tell you everything about their life if you let them. We live in this world where we’re kind of all narcissistic as contact creators and it’s all about me.

Jason Hoak  (30:51):

And yeah, look at especially, no, I’m not gonna say it’s all <laugh> one, but seriously, people aren’t asked questions about themselves kind of ever. And when they’re, and even the ones, I get this comment a lot, thank you for this question. No one’s ever asked me that before. Hmm. And they just let go. And some of that is completely unplanned on their part. They’re guarded at the beginning. But if you give someone the opportunity, whatever that is, they’re trying to find penance in their life or they’re, they’re, they’re ready to tell. It’s incredible If you let them tell that story and you give them that freedom and you ask ’em that question that no one is going to ask them because we’re living in this world where we’re kind of so self-focused. Yeah. When I get that asked of me, it is mind blowing. And so just think about people that are asked a question that have gone through some pain.

Jason Hoak  (31:52):

And it’s just something I’ve learned over the years and it’s, it’s incredibly shocking. I mean, I, I spent 18 months kind of embedded with a former KGB agent. He was the number one espionage target of the CIA. He lived undercover here for 10 years and he lived not far from me, probably 35, 40 minutes. And I would drive out, you know, kind of early mornings of once a week for a long time. And I adore him and we got to know each other. I mean, he’s the master of keeping secrets of, of anyone. And this trusting relationship developed over time. And he started telling me things that he had never told anyone, uh, on an emotional level. And it was kind of the thing that made the whole story work. It’s something that didn’t come out right away, but he was ready to have that conversation. And I think that I appreciated it and I now appreciate our friendship. Um, and Sean, you’ve got similar stories with many characters here. You do develop bonds Yep. ’cause you’re listening to people. So anyway, long-winded answer, but I think you get where I’m going.

Scott Luton (32:59):

Oh, absolutely. And, and that was the agent I think was a series that Jason just described. Maybe we could drop that link in the chat. And I think at the main thrust, Jason, you’re sharing there is to seek out those opportunities to, to ask people the questions. And especially you didn’t say this but I’ll say it. I love what you and Shauna have done. You’re not going to the usual suspects. You’re finding those unique stories and, and putting the microphone in people in front of people that haven’t enjoyed that opportunity and haven’t had their stories amplified. And I love the uniqueness of that.

Jason Hoak  (33:32):

Let me actually, yeah, if you don’t mind, like please, this is kinda pointed towards Sean, but you know the story that Dixie Mafiaa in the Red Clay, it’s been there for 50 years. No one dis no one actually did the work to actually discover the fact that this was a really incredible family impersonal story here in Georgia. We like to bury our past just like Atlanta monster, right? Some really bad stuff happened, but you’ve gotta do the work to be able to go and go deep. These stories are everywhere if you do the work. And if we don’t put in the work, then these stories will remain buried forever. That’s just the way it’s,

Scott Luton (34:13):

Well, and let’s get, Sean, I’d love for you to comment on what you, we’ve heard from Jason and including his comments there on your podcast.

Sean Kipe (34:20):

What he says about trust is that’s, I think how I’ve gotten all my projects made. And I think it applies to not just podcasts or content creation, I think it applies to everything that you do. Certainly in business, I mean, I, I think building a bond with someone, they are going to open up to you and, and just, you have to create that trust, especially if you’re going to ask them, you know, about the hardest parts of their life and the most difficult or most private parts of their life’s story. But again, I think it also that apply, you know, that can apply to anything across the board. If you are, you have a client and, and they’re gonna put their trust in you to create, advertise, well, whatever it is, you’ve gotta have that trust. So that’s a really, for me, I think that’s the most important thing. And and oftentimes, again, as Jason said, you get into a room, you put a microphone on somebody or a camera, it’s uncomfortable for them. For most average people, I will spend 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour just chatting. You know, you put it, put the microphone on and, and we’re just get them comfortable with it. And by the time you’re actually have started your interview, and for me, an interview is just a conversation. That’s how I do my, my things. But by the time that happens, they’re already comfortable with you and

Scott Luton (35:36):

They open, open up. And with that trust to your point on the front end of your response there, you can truly move mountains and look, get this what Karen is sharing about what you and Jas, you and, uh, Sean are talking about Jason, a story archeologist. I love it. Listening and caring. All great messages. I love Karen. Uh, Karen’s a quick study on what you were talking about, digging those things up, Jason, I love that. Okay man, I really am feeling in my heart what y’all are sharing here, Jason and Sean. And I love all the comments we’re getting. In fact, I’m gonna share one more before I, uh, we start to kind of wind the interview down. Brandy says, let your personality shine causing relatability and trust to conversate and engage, especially in this virtual world, we’re still in the inability to read and feel body language and vibes.

Scott Luton (36:23):

You’ve gotta go the extra mile to really create a business relationship, as she says. And Brandy says she’s not a great verbal communicator. I would tend to disagree, but she’s gotta rely heavily on those things. Good stuff there. Brandy from the pride of Temple, Texas. Okay, so we’ve talked about things to do. Jason, I’ll circle back around to you. What’s one thing that for folks out there, regardless where they are, if they’re putting out, you know, fortune 100 content and they’ve been there and done that, or they’re just getting started, what’s one thing they’ve got to avoid doing?

Jason Hoak  (36:55):

So it’s a little bit of a tricky one, but I would just say don’t rush things. These projects can take time. You’re not gonna write a book overnight, so why would you do it with anything else? The kind of the double-edged sword here is that if you’re trying to be a perfectionist, you may never launch it. So it’s, I think there’s a lot of detail work that makes content great and just trying to do more that again, is less memorable for the purpose of doing more, I think is the wrong goal. Stuff takes time and I just believe preparation is everything. So if you’re not prepared, if you’re going only halfway, and that includes not only your research preparation and kind of architecture of the story you want to tell, it’s also just paying attention to the equipment you have. You don’t actually have to spend a lot of money to, to be, you know, kind of in the field doing this stuff.

Jason Hoak  (37:56):

You’ve got a recorder, you’ve got some microphones, but if you’re gonna do it, spend a little bit of time making sure you get good audio and, and it doesn’t work, do it over. ’cause you may only have one shot. So it’s like, my tip is just don’t screw it up by going too fast. Just slow it down and get it right. So we’re, it is like, I know we’re living in this hyper news and information age. I’ll share something here, which is when we did podcasts at How Stuff Works originally one of the biggest shows ever in podcasts is called Stuff You Should Know. And our kind of thesis around that audio podcast many years ago was around short attention spans that no one has time for everything. So the initial episodes that we published in what, 2012 or something like that, even before that we’re like three to five minutes long and people wrote in and they begged us to go deeper, you know, to go longer in these episodes and they kind of became what they are today, which is 35, 45 minutes, maybe an hour, which is shocking in a world where everything is moving so quickly,

Scott Luton (39:08):

Isn’t it though?

Jason Hoak  (39:09):

Yeah, people want that escape and they will invest time with you if you’ve done the investment on your end to tell a great story because they actually need that escape. So it was really counter to what we thought that’s always stuck with me is that little bit done quickly isn’t necessarily even what people want anymore.

Scott Luton (39:30):

Man. Jason, I absolutely agree with you. I’m one of the biggest consumers of longer form content, especially on YouTube, whether I’m taking a cat nap and I kind of want something, you know, to, to preoccupy my brain or whatever it is driving. So good stuff there Jason. And by the way, John, hey John, great to see you again three times this week I believe stuff you should know. Great podcast John’s one of many fans including myself of that good work. Alright, Sean, we were talking about stuff you shouldn’t do and Jason’s one of his main thrusts there was, hey, you don’t have to move fast quality over quantity, slow down and get the big and small things right. Sean, what’s one thing that folks should not do?

Sean Kipe (40:10):

Well, Jason says that, but he’s also very person deadlines. So I think this, this is something, and I don’t know that it necessarily applies to every everyone, but I learned this the hard way. And that is there are so many different social media outlets. You have TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, uh, ins, you know, all all these things. Pick one and make that your way to, to communicate with people and for people to communicate with you. One or two, because all of my following now is spread across. There’s four different Facebook accounts. The mistake I made was making a separate account on Instagram and Facebook for in the Red Clay and then one for Fox Hunter and then, and so you have all these follow, but you have to, it just takes so much more work, which takes more time and everyone’s sharing and the have an outlet where, and also for people to find you, it’s much easier for people just to type in your name or your project, your company and that’s it. There’s not four different ones or so that, that’s the biggest thing because getting your content shared and, and getting downloads or followers or whatever it is, you want it to be as easy for people as possible and things I wish I knew stuff I should have known <laugh>, um, that’ll be my next podcast you go. But there, but yeah. Hey, just have one place.

Scott Luton (41:38):

Yep. Sean, that’s great. You and Jason, excellent, uh, tips here today both on what you should do and what you shouldn’t do. And Nerf, Nerf is challenging is, uh, channeling rather what you just said there, Sean. He says, I think I’ll start a podcast called Stuff you shouldn’t Know. <laugh>, Nerf, great to have you here. Okay, so for the sake of time and Jason and Sean both have a really hard stop here. The final two questions, I’m gonna morph into one and Jason will circle, circle back with you and I’d love to make sure you tell folks how folks can connect with you Jason, but while you do that, what’s one current or upcoming project you’re really stoked about? So two part questionnaire.

Jason Hoak  (42:16):

Yes. So part one you can find me on LinkedIn, we’ll drop a link in the comments so you can just look me up on LinkedIn. It’s a, it’s an easy, easy thing to do. I tend to kind of write some things, not just post my own stuff sometimes. So you can check me out there. Thanks for that. You know, part of the vision of these podcasts was always kind of beyond the podcast and making TV series and feature films and documentaries out of those podcasts. And we get that comment a lot from listeners. Oh my God, this could be a movie or a TV show or whatever. And it, even though you do the podcast, it takes a, still takes a long time to make it into a TV show. And I mentioned BoomTown early in the podcast, it’s gonna be a series hopefully later this year called Landman from Taylor Sheridan, I’m Paramount Plus and starring Billy Bob Thornton as the main oil man and he’s also co-writing it. And it’s been a long journey to get here, so I kind of can’t stand it that waiting anymore. But these things take time and just, wow, what a compliment to have that podcast and what we talked about earlier about going to places people are going to actually be able to go there with us in a TV series now. And that is just mind blowing to me. So I’m excited about that as something, uh, upcoming for this year,

Scott Luton (43:37):

Jason. I’m blown away. I am blown away with that. That’s gotta be one of the ultimate rewards to have something you create and build and tell that story on the podcast, on what they call the podcast, the silver speaker, maybe instead of the silver screen folks to take that and then turn it into a movie or a TV show being led by some of the most brilliant minds of our, of this day. So congratulations, we’ll all celebrate. As Catherine says, can’t wait to watch it. Karen says, congratulations and folks would drop Jason’s link to his LinkedIn there. So y’all check him out. Okay, so Sean, same question. How can folks connect with you and what, you’ve got lots of cool stuff coming up. What’s one thing that you’re stoked about? You

Sean Kipe (44:17):

Can connect with me on the 45 different social media. No, just Instagram and Facebook really are Twitter, any, any of that stuff. But at Sean Ki and <laugh>, Jason obviously is aware of this, but in The Red Clay is being developed for a TV series. So that’s something, again, that’s been a couple years. I’m so excited about that, that I can’t even, I can’t even, I’m waiting. I’ve been waiting for this. We’ve been working so hard and had so much behind the scenes interest in so many people wanting to do it now. I think we found the team that we’re happy with and, uh, I think that story continue on the screen and, uh, <laugh> probing, hoping for big things from that.

Scott Luton (45:00):

Well, undoubtedly I’m very confident. I I’ve got my fingers crossed, my toes crossed, but I’ve got lots of confidence. It’s amazing what y’all have done just thus far and I bet both of y’all say with regularity, we’re still just getting started. So congratulations on all of y’all’s success. As humble as you are and approachable. I’ve had the good fortune of knowing Jason for a couple years now and he’s really given a lot for our team here. Sean, great to meet you and y’all like cut from the same cloth, so I really appreciate your humility and your willingness to, you know, put the hand down in that proverbial, you know, you know, folks coming up the ladder. So it really, it, it makes the world a better place. So big thanks to uh, Jason Hoke. Thank you Jason. You’re welcome. And big thanks to Sean ki as well. Thank you Sean.

Sean Kipe (45:45):

Yeah, thanks man.

Scott Luton (45:46):

Alright folks, man, what an outstanding conversation. Thanks so much for joining. Big thanks to Jason, Sean for taking the time to share. But folks, whatever you do, whether it’s in the content creation industry, if it’s in global supply chain, it’s in manufacturing, tech, whatever it is, it’s about these not words, right? These folks or, or, uh, sharing with you a lot about their actions that have led to success and led the enjoyment for many other folks related to their projects. These not words we’re all sick and tired. Lip service leadership, right? So on behalf of our entire supply chain now, team Scott Luton challenge you to do good, to give forward and to be the change. And we see next time right back here at Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (46:25):

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