[00:00:00] Zack Knight: The reality of rock bottom for me was that moment where you couldn’t even tell yourself you love yourself, so then I really, Got serious in a lot of ways about how do I actually find help. I finally realized my mind was broken. And where that was such an empowering thought to me was, I am broken as a thought too. That’s awesome. Now I can figure out, I can fix things. I am broken. But now I at least am empowered to find a solution and find an answer to go fix myself.
[00:00:44] Lloyd Knight: Welcome to the Tango Tango podcast. I’m your host, retired first sergeants, Lloyd Knights. And we have honest and unscripted a, uh, dialogue between a, a retired first sergeant and we got a great guest on today. First of all, no, we’re not related, although everybody thinks Zach’s my son and a and a, uh, occasionally my brother.
[00:01:05] Lloyd Knight: but we, we are brothers from another mother and a, uh, Zach is one of the coolest dudes out there that I know. He’s involved a lot. He’s a, uh, a police, a officer veteran. He’s an army reservist veteran. He’s an entrepreneur. He runs a non-profits. He, uh, married to a, a, a, a great girl father of a, a brand new, German Shepherd
[00:01:28] Zack Knight: So, and then one of the most important things, he is director of Communications for Atlanta. So Zach, welcome to the Tango Tango Podcast.
[00:01:38] Lloyd Knight: Uh, appreciate you having me, brother. And, uh, you say, brother, occasionally that we’re confused as brothers. I don’t know, man. given the age range here and the difference in ages, I don’t know if I would qualify as bro. Rather
[00:01:50] Zack Knight: per
[00:01:50] Zack Knight: Hey, hey, hey. Watch it. My mom’s listening too, so. Uh, so it, yeah, it’s, I I’m really looking, forward to this conversation ’cause Zach and I have been on podcasts. we’ve done so much together, but this is kind of a different format. So I’m really curious to see where this conversation is gonna go, but, hey, we’ll, we’ll take it like we always take it.
[00:02:10] Lloyd Knight: And, and I know some of these answers, so Zach,know you’re, you’re from Georgia, but, what part of Georgia and what’d your childhood look like?
[00:02:18] Zack Knight: Man, I, you know, people say they’re from Atlanta, and these days Atlanta is like ball ground or, uh, my wife, you know, she’s from Monroe and. That that’s considered quote unquote Atlanta. And I said, that’s, that’s all nonsense. I’m a Grady baby. So if anybody ever says that’s my one claim to fame, uh, being a Grady baby, truly from Atlanta, born and raised right here and, uh, childhood was, was awesome man.
[00:02:41] Zack Knight: My dad’s a Vietnam Navy vet. so I always joked that he told me to do one thing really well, and I was to join the Army and not join the Navy. but grew up, in the South Cobb area, not far from like the Six Flags. If anybody’s local listening. Um, in the South Cob and now I live over in East Cob.
[00:02:58] Zack Knight: So it’s funny growing up playing, uh, T-Ball in, in the Cobb County area. It was always like the East Cob snobs, right? And then now I live in East Cob. I’m like, I finally made it. I’m an East Cob snob. It’s great. it was different in Atlanta back then, uh, for those of y’all that haven’t been in Atlanta for 20 or 30, 40, almost 40 years now.
[00:03:16] Zack Knight: you know, east West Connector didn’t connect, windy Hill, didn’t connect to Macklin Road. the new Brave Stadium was a cow pasture and a lake. And, I remember growing up not far from there. And, uh, it was great man back really when Smyrna was an old town, if you will. And, really, really slower back then.
[00:03:35] Zack Knight: Atlanta’s much busier now and, grew up in the woods, really a country boy that turned city, if you will
[00:03:41] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, not much woods out here anymore, unless you’re walking on the green for sure. The, uh, and what kind of student were you, Zach?
[00:03:49] Zack Knight: Man, it, it depends how you look at it. really heavy into athletics. Um, in elementary school, I went through a, a Christian school, uh, and then middle school and high school was actually homeschooled. looking back these days, I’m like, man, that’s actually a great component. back then I, I hated it.
[00:04:07] Zack Knight: Of course. but homeschooling back then was before all the, I I think it’s really evolved these days where as Taylor and I have talked about kids, it’s probably a great option these days ’cause they have so many resources. But, middle school and high school is one of those where it was self-taught, uh, we got curriculum from a university outta Florida and my mom’s like, here you go.
[00:04:25] Zack Knight: Uh, learn away. So essentially, I grew up working, my dad had a construction, uh, renovations company. I grew up working with him, from middle school forward, and then did schoolwork on the side and have a good enough diploma, one of those good old GEDs. But, I don’t know how grades were but I guess I technically graduated with the GED and then, uh.
[00:04:44] Zack Knight: Learned well enough. I think one of the best pieces of that was the, the self-talk component where you look at what we do these days with entrepreneurship and you know, this entrepreneur world, you gotta learn quick and you gotta learn, a lot of things and be very adaptable. So it is kind of one of those intrinsic pieces to be able to, deconstruct and reconstruct really well, where that schooling taught me more of the intrinsic pieces outside of the grades.
[00:05:05] Lloyd Knight: Zach’s been one of my mentors for, for starting a, um, my side businesses. And, some of those lessons are, are book lessons and others, as we were talking about before we jumped on live. So, uh, you graduate from high school with, with the, with homeschooling, GED.
[00:05:20] Lloyd Knight: Uh, what was next for you?
[00:05:23] Zack Knight: Man, the one thing I always knew I wanted to do is be a police officer. Um, growing up I, I didn’t wanna be stuck behind a desk. I wanted something free flow and wanted to give. Back to the community. so I knew being a police officer was on the horizon, but you know, you gotta be 2021 before you can join that.
[00:05:39] Zack Knight: I don’t know if I’ve ever told you this part and I, I, I hate that it’s being recorded. Uh, but I’m gonna admit this. I went to an Air Force recruiter and, uh, almost joined the Air Force at 18. Ended up chasing a girl instead. Probably should have joined the Air Force.
[00:05:53] Zack Knight: the, the three years between 18 and 21 was really just doing odds and ends jobs, really just, stretching until I got to the 21 mark where I could join the police force. And I was the real first real job. but, you know, did all the things. I was a bagger at Piggly Wiggly, so anybody wearing pig lu wiggly shirts, that became a thing.
[00:06:09] Zack Knight: I’m like. Why are people wearing Piggly Wiggly shirts? Uh, but it was a bagger at Piggly Wiggly outside of Fort Benning, down there in Columbus as a civilian and just trying to, you know, three jobs at a time, going from one to the other, uh, to make, make rent in my really terrible apartment.
[00:06:23] Zack Knight: Um, that was about 500 square feet. And then, uh, I remember I was, So poor Piggly Wiggly would have these,five pound cases of corn dogs that nobody ever bought, right? So when they expired, that would be my dinner for about two weeks and great learning opportunities, man, and a great way to figure out how to start
[00:06:44] Zack Knight: adulting.
[00:06:45] Lloyd Knight: I remember being that, that poor, you know, being a, uh, uh, 18-year-old Airman, Basa, getting married. living off the cheap 80% a, uh, lean hamburger meat. So that would come in a big, like a, eight pound. Yeah. So,
[00:07:01] Zack Knight: And ramen. Dude, I, I had so much ramen in my time, like I still like it for some reason, but so much
[00:07:06] Lloyd Knight: oh yeah, me too. Yeah. So the, so which police force, uh, did you join?
[00:07:12] Zack Knight: Yeah, I was with Smyrna pd, joined that, uh, 20 and a half or so. They let me have a run into, when you can can join the academy at 21. spent just shy of seven years there, but did all sorts of stuff. I was on the SWAT team, did some narcotics on our cover work. all across Atlanta.
[00:07:28] Zack Knight: that was one of the nice things about policing back then. I just realized I’ve been outta the police world for 10 years, so I’m like, dang, I really am getting old after a decade of being out of something. but back then there was a lot of, uh, cross departmental, training opportunities and interaction across Atlanta.
[00:07:44] Zack Knight: So really had a lot of fun, all across with some different organizations.
[00:07:48] Lloyd Knight: so let’s talk about the Dance Academy. You helped start up.
[00:07:51] Zack Knight: So is actually bridging my, two weeks from the police department went into basic training. so it was kind of in that in-between phase when I went to basic training, uh, officer school, infantry schools, about a year and a half of training.
[00:08:04] Zack Knight: And I knew I didn’t wanna get back into policing. That was 2016 when I left. So actually started a different company first. Um, talk about the, the serial entrepreneur component.
[00:08:14] Zack Knight: Um, the first company I started, as any other police or military guy does. I started a security consulting firm in 2017. it still exists amazingly. Um, not super profitable, anymore. COVID really crushed us. We were doing a lot in the, um, schools and churches, a lot of actor shooter training, stuff like that.
[00:08:32] Zack Knight: uh, I was still active duty on Fort Benning and started a media company that we then launched a worldwide dance competition. The month after COVID, uh, had a business partner that was a professional dancer. he used to dance with Justin Timberlake, he was in Pepsi commercials, did all the things.
[00:08:49] Zack Knight: And as many of us during COVID, everything kind of went sideways and he had a, a, a really awesome sales consulting firm. Uh, lost all the clients. Uh, no different than the security firm. You know, people stopped going to church, stopped gonna in-person stuff. So physical security wasn’t one of those things.
[00:09:04] Zack Knight: It was really, uh.utilized much at that point. so we got together and he said, man, I wanna get back into dancing. I’m like, cool. I don’t dance. I have a mean two left feet. I can do a two step and wag my fingers, and that’s about it. he said, don’t worry about that part, I just need help with the operational side.
[00:09:22] Zack Knight: so as we built that, we actually scaled that to 155 countries in the first eight months. we got a pretty significant offer for it. but we were, we were shipping, um. 5G wireless pucks all across the world. we really took the concept like World of Dance or America’s Got Talent, American Idol, stuff like that.
[00:09:39] Zack Knight: It flipped on its head where a lot of people across the world couldn’t afford to come to the United States for those, Talent competitions. So what we did is instead of, you know, making people come this way and in COVID you couldn’t really travel like that, we took the,TV show if you’ll, we did two episodes a week.
[00:09:55] Zack Knight: Uh, we took that to them and really shifted the dynamic of how we could reach the audience. And, it just called like Wildfire Man. We had, um. Several high caliber people on there from judges. We had Lady Gagas choreographers, one of the judges. Chason and I, his last name’s.
[00:10:11] Zack Knight: Escaping me at the moment, but he was a rapper in the early nineties. That was in a boy band. I mean, it was, it was an amazing project and it taught a lot about business. How do you grow things? How do you scale things? How do you think outside of the box, especially during COVID when a lot of industries really suffering, how do you adapt to it?
[00:10:26] Zack Knight: Uh, but it went crazy. And I still never danced on the show. So that’s why I think why it was such a success,
[00:10:32] Zack Knight: honestly.
[00:10:32] Lloyd Knight: you have two left feet. I’ve got two right feet, so maybe we should get together and try it next summit.
[00:10:37] Zack Knight: Do a tango. Tango, right?
[00:10:39] Lloyd Knight: So the, uh, so we, we, you talked a little bit about, why you wanted to leave the police force, but why the active duty United States Army?
[00:10:48] Zack Knight: a big piece was, I knew I wanted to serve still, and at this point I was 28 and I looked back at that 18-year-old, full EPIs of vinegar. Knew everything in the world, kid. And I still have a lot of that component to me. Um, but I look back, I’m like, man, if it’s not now, then it’s never gonna happen.
[00:11:06] Zack Knight: Uh, so the military was always one of those call-ins I wanted to join. the funny part was. I went into an Army recruiter and I said, this is the track I want. And I literally had it mapped out, uh, with the officer candidate school, with infantry school and, and that path. and I scored in, in the 97th percentile in the asvab.
[00:11:24] Zack Knight: And he was like, are you sure you wanna go into Army infantry as an
[00:11:28] Lloyd Knight: Me being the Air Force is probably what he.
[00:11:32] Zack Knight: He, he, he essentially said, you can have any job in the military you want. Are you sure? Now, he didn’t tell me all the other jobs I could have had. Right.
[00:11:39] Zack Knight: that was really the bigger calling and I, I saw the military, specifically the army. As an opportunity to really test leadership skills, I was really fascinated and still, fascinated and study, leadership as a whole and really look at, what makes a good leader. Uh, my podcast is focused on that.
[00:11:56] Zack Knight: and really dissecting what makes a good leader. And my thought process was if I can go into combat and when the bullets start flying, can you say two words? And everybody moves without question. And leadership understanding. Leadership is just influence. If I can influence people while bullets are flying to do what you’re recommending, then that’s really the best test of leadership and careful what you ask for.
[00:12:18] Zack Knight: ’cause that’s exactly what ended up happening.
[00:12:20] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. Um, and then so you go through OTS are, are, were you stationed at Fort Batting your first assignment?
[00:12:27] Zack Knight: Yep. Uh, for bidding, uh, for 18 months And then I got transferred over to, Fort Stewart. Um, that’s where I got attached to 10th Group. so we had to train up. It was either go to Ranger school and, uh, keep going through training for another little while. And I was qualified and had a slot and was ready to go.
[00:12:43] Zack Knight: And then the opportunity came up, Hey, you can either, go to Ranger school or you can catch this deployment, get attached to Special Forces and go see combat. So I, I took that route. I got attached over to, Third Infantry Division, down at Fort Stewart and deployed out of there about six months later.
[00:12:59] Lloyd Knight: And where’d you deploy to?
[00:13:01] Zack Knight: 2019 Afghanistan. Um, it, it was funny leading up to it. Everybody’s like, why are you gonna Afghanistan? Is there still a war happening over there? Like, people didn’t have context because at that point, that conflict, the Middle Eastern conflict, even though he’d been gone going on for.
[00:13:14] Zack Knight: 30 years, people were like, well, nothing’s really happening over there. but come to find out, it was, we were hyperkinetic for the year I was over there. We ran ops every four days. Um, stayed busy for sure. in Afghanistan, the northern northern part, if anybody knows the cones, we landed and it was eight inches of snow on the ground, on New Year’s Day. And then by the time we left, it was 130 degrees, like very drastic climate for
[00:13:37] Zack Knight: sure.
[00:13:38] Lloyd Knight: and you left a very changed man, uh, mentally, physically. Can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:13:44] Zack Knight: Yeah, uh, physically for sure. going from the SWAT team when I was a shield guy, first one in the door, you’re essentially recruited to be a big, strong, heavy dude. Uh, the Army, really enjoys small, skinny running types. so physical was very drastic. Just in leading up to that. And then during the deployment I had about 50 guys that I was responsible for and we ended up losing six of them, a couple.
[00:14:10] Zack Knight: Green Berets, uh, EOD guy. Um, will and Joey were our first two. We were about, five weeks in country and got into our first, tick if you will. Uh, we were ambush on an operation and lost Will and Joey and, um. The mental and physical all shifted at that point, right? All of a sudden, war and combat became very, very real.
[00:14:31] Zack Knight: Uh, the leadership aspect during, uh. a conflict like that or during, um, an engagement leadership in the moment is one thing, something I didn’t think about was leadership after that moment. Like, how do you actually keep guys motivated after you’ve lost some guys? Or how do you keep guys, reeled in, you know, when you’re trained for one thing and that’s go pull a trigger and go.
[00:14:53] Zack Knight: Um, do things that a lot of people have never thought about doing. How do you actually reel that in a little bit when your friends and your brothers are, are lost in the middle of that? So it, it was a very interesting dynamic.and we can talk more into the PTS world and, and talk about that in that moment.
[00:15:09] Zack Knight: It wasn’t about, uh, PTS by any means. It’s like, how do we keep going for another eight months?
[00:15:13] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, I mean, yeah, de definitely, and we’ll, we’ll go on to your transition, but you also, in addition to the, you know, the PTS, which, which is just natural and you have, you know, your troops dying around you. what about physical did you like? Screw up your, your shoulder, your back. Have some physicals coming out there.
[00:15:32] Zack Knight: Yeah. Um, and you know, you never realize in the moment, It’s interesting. I, I have a partially torn quad still. Um, before I went over, I had A-C-L-M-C-L meniscus replaced. I broke both feet in the train up for it. lot of guys get hurt in training and, and you never think about it.
[00:15:52] Zack Knight: But, you know, a, a 20 kilometer movement with 80 pounds on your back, uh, things start breaking very quickly. and then on the deployment, everybody gets bumps and bruises, but nobody wants to go home, so nobody talks about it. You don’t say, oh man, this hurts or that hurts. Uh, you kind of just put duct tape and keep going.
[00:16:09] Zack Knight: Right? Um, so I actually didn’t find out about my arm injury until about a year after the deployment is when I came back and, things started. Acting funny. I, I went down to do pushups back on Fort Benning, dislocated my thumb, popped it back into place. ’cause that’s what you do, right?
[00:16:25] Zack Knight: And, and then all of a sudden everything from my elbow down went numb. and. Fast forwarding a little bit. Come to find out I had compressed the nerve in my elbow during the deployment and I wish I had a really cool story about it, right? I’m like, oh, I was doing this, I was doing that. A pack of Velociraptors.
[00:16:39] Zack Knight: No, nothing. Cool. Um, just at some point during that deployment, you just get so beat up. Things happen and I come to find out that nerve was almost severed in my arm and, uh, had to havewhat came to be a pretty intense surgery to, move that nerve and keep it from severing completely, but never knew about it till a year and a half later,
[00:16:56] Zack Knight: Uh, which is the crazy part, right, is your body starts trying to heal itself. You find out real quick how many things are not really
[00:17:04] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, and that’s about the same time we met, isn’t it?
[00:17:07] Zack Knight: Right about, um, it was actually, um, so the, the full timeline of events, I came back, right at the, end of 2019. so the, the dance competition happened about three months after I got back, when we launched it right in the middle of COVID. was going back through more training at Fort Bidding, and then.
[00:17:26] Zack Knight: Fast forward a year is when I, while I was on Fort Benning, I had the surgery in March and you gotta live the army. This might be just an army thing. So I’ll throw some shade on the Army for a second. Um, I was in captain’s career course going, I already selected to be a commander, take over an entire unit, and.
[00:17:45] Zack Knight: Was injured during that training or found out about this injury during the training. They said you had to have surgery on Fort Benning. God love them. I’m like, no, no, no. I, I know doctors in Atlanta that do this a lot. How about I go back to Atlanta and I get a special specialist on it and they said, Nope, you gotta do it on Fort Benning.
[00:18:01] Zack Knight: and you have to do it before thegraduation of this training. so Two weeks prior to the surgery was when we were offered a very substantial amount of money for that, dance project. And then the week in between was one of the worst. Uh, darkest days of my life.
[00:18:20] Zack Knight: and you know, my story, you know, my journey. But, um, and we can dive more into this piece of it, but, the suicide attempt aspect of my life was there. And then the week of the surgery, I showed up to the final exam the next morning, high as a kite. Still, they wouldn’t let me reschedule anything.
[00:18:37] Zack Knight: They wouldn’t let me move it. So somehow. All that homeschooling from years ago, the self-taught piece of, I think it was kinda like Rainman, I was so still so high on the surgery drugs that all the answers were kind of floating around me and I was able to pass that X exam and then the next week I came back to Atlanta to start rehab.
[00:18:54] Zack Knight: And that’s about the time we met.
[00:18:56] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, but I remember meeting you, very well. I. That was the day, um, people would line up at the summits to talk to me. 10 15. I remember talking to you and going, yeah, that, this guy’s pretty cool. And then my late, my, uh, wife Suzanne was a big Zach Knight fan, and she would call me.
[00:19:13] Lloyd Knight: On my ride home. And, and I really liked her perspective. and that conversation was all about Zach Knight.you need to get with him and get, I, I think he’s something special. He could, he, could bring something special to Atlanta. So, uh, I’m not gonna go your, your whole, um, you know, struggle story.
[00:19:30] Lloyd Knight: I, I saw it personally, but let’s talk about how you. Yourself out of this. I specifically want to talk about the self loved component of it. And a, uh, because I think that’s really special that you had, your roommate give you some, really phenomenal advice that you followed and, and it, it helped, you know, scratch your way out and barrel knuckle your way out of, of the funk that you were
[00:19:55] Zack Knight: Yeah. And, and to, to put a little bit more contextOn paper, uh, had an MBA, he was offered a lot of money for a project, at that point I was 32 years old. Um, so seemingly successful on paper, uh, and then absolutely internally miserable.
[00:20:11] Zack Knight: Uh, was at the end of a doc after a, an entire bottle of bourbon. Uh, had a pistol in my mouth ready to go. divine intervention stopped that moment. Um, and then fast forward, graduate from that training. And the, the bad part that a lot of, I think, vets don’t ever really talk about is I had already talked to probably a dozen therapists and, knew something was wrong and everybody’s telling me to go to therapy, get all the mental health stuff, and, uh, kept coming to reasons to disqualify ’em.
[00:20:41] Zack Knight: Nope, not this person because, not this person because, and in reality, I just. Didn’t wanna do it right. stubborn male, none of us wanna talk about our feelings, right? So I moved back to Atlanta and during that window, of that year, of 2021, the first four months I’d essentially alienated everybody, friends, family, um, was going through a really bad divorce.
[00:21:03] Zack Knight: and essentially just like lit my world on fire and really isolated myself, which is a, a, a commonality in the veteran space. We really isolated. Isolate ourselves. Don’t want anybody to see the cracks in the foundation or the perceived weakness. so I moved back and I have a friend, Jesse, who’s a navy guy.
[00:21:22] Zack Knight: God loved the Navy guys. Um, he moved a sofa into his kids’ playroom just so I had somewhere to sleep. ’cause I had nowhere else to go at that point. And we were having a, a conversation one evening and. You know, he is like you, do all this external learning. Uh, you have your MBA, you have an alphabet. I have so many credentials behind my name.
[00:21:43] Zack Knight: You, you’ve always done this external learning and you’re a student of life, but the one thing you’ve never done is look. You’ve never looked inside to learn about yourself. And I’m like, ah, that’s a weird, weird way to look at it. But okay. He’s like, actually, I’ll, I’ll challenge that even further.
[00:21:59] Zack Knight: He is like, I think you don’t even love yourself. And I started laughing in his face, you know, the bravado of the, the army guy and the, and the police officer. I started laughing. I’m like, man, I love me some me. You’ll never find anybody that loves him as much as I do. And he is like, okay, go upstairs, look in the mirror and tell yourself you love yourself.
[00:22:19] Zack Knight: I’m like, f too easy. So I stomp upstairs, I get in front of the mirror and I’m like, I look. And then immediately had an anxiety attack for two hours, BAW in the floor, just couldn’t breathe, couldn’t do anything. And, literally the recognition where you think your lowest point may be, you know, a suicide attempt or n near suicide attempt.
[00:22:37] Zack Knight: And then the reality of rock bottom for me was that moment where you couldn’t even tell yourself you love yourself. so then I really, Got seriousin a lot of ways about how do I actually find help. Because I think part of what I was going through during the surgery, everybody kept telling me, and this is where I really started isolating, is everybody’s like, oh, you’re fine.
[00:22:56] Zack Knight: Everything’s gonna be fine. It’ll be better, it’ll get better. And in that same moment, I couldn’t tie my own shoes, could barely get my shoes on. I have, uh, a pretty solid, Metal set on my chest at that point when I was still in and couldn’t even pin my medals on my uniform to graduate.
[00:23:14] Zack Knight: And I’m like, it’s not fine. So every time somebody told me it was fine or it’ll be okay, I instantly internalized, you’re lying to me. Everything you’re saying is a lie to me and I disqualified everybody in my life. ’cause I just thought everybody kept lying to me ’cause I knew it wasn’t fine. And where I, I started pointing fingers externally in that moment after I had that anxiety attack and after I realized I really am not fine.
[00:23:39] Zack Knight: It was a really relieving moment for me is really freeing. Where the thought, and so many people said, don’t say this, but I think it’s such a great recognition point for me personally, was that I finally realized. Oh man, I am broken, but it’s not my arm. Uh, where I still don’t have feeling in half my hand.
[00:23:57] Zack Knight: It wasn’t the surgery that went bad, it was that my mind was broken. And where that was such an empowering thought to me was, I’m really good at fixing things. So for me, it went from I am broken as a thought to. That’s awesome. Now I can figure out, I can fix things. So instead of thinking everything’s fine and everything’s wonderful and, and there’s nothing to fix, which essentially was what I was internalizing, it shifted to, oh no, no.
[00:24:24] Zack Knight: I am broken. But now I at least am empowered to find a solution and find an answer to go fix myself. And that’s where, my book, the Legacy of Love, a Journey of Self-Mastery, that it, it was that whole process. And I really wrote that, not for myself, but really for my soldiers to put the vulnerability out there, highlight,
[00:24:42] Zack Knight: Not everything’s fine, especially internally, even though it may look fine. Uh, and if you can recognize what’s broken and then recognize there’s empowerment there to go fix it and take that action, and that’s really what the book highlights is that journey.
[00:24:55] Lloyd Knight: And what are some of the, how’d you fix it? What are some of the stuff you took?
[00:24:59] Zack Knight: Uh, a, a big one was I actually did get into therapy. I went through, Emory here in Atlanta has a great program. I did their outpatient program, finally found a therapist that. Challenged me and, and I think that was part of my issue with a lot of the therapists I was talking to is like, oh, you’re fine.
[00:25:15] Zack Knight: Let’s just talk a little bit. I’m like, Nope, you’re just telling me the same thing everybody else is telling me. And then, their, their intake process is a three hour interview and it was painful. It was so painful. And, and the guy, uh, that became a therapist, he was like, you know, you keep blaming yourself for will dying.
[00:25:33] Zack Knight: You keep blaming yourself for Joey dying. You keep blaming yourself for everybody dying, and you have this survivor’s guilt. Have you ever thought about blaming the person that actually pulled the trigger? ’cause that wasn’t you. And he, he challenged me in a way that. Opened me up to, oh, hang on, let’s actually have a conversation about that.
[00:25:51] Zack Knight: And he did it so eloquently, um, that really was the foundational element of shifting, uh, shifting that mindset. But then there was several other components on top of that. You know, I, I started, uh, meditating, which is painful for a lot of people. But I found one thing that was really, uh, relaxing.
[00:26:08] Zack Knight: Classical musicis very relaxing to me. So I would put on headphones, uh, for seven minutes. I would time it, and it was so painful to do the first couple times, but I would literally put it on a timer, listen to classical music for seven minutes, and work on breathing, just box breathing.
[00:26:22] Zack Knight: super simple, but just to like steady the mind. Um, started doing a lot of, uh, gratitudes. So every morning I still do it on my mirrorin my bathroom. So whenever I go to the bathroom, I see the three things I’m most grateful for. and I write those on my mirror every morning. behind me, I have a, a generational hand me down standup piano.
[00:26:42] Zack Knight: that was passed down. It’s been in my family for five or six generations. And I’ve always had the idea of learning to play it. ’causeit came from my, my great grandmother who passed, uh, a couple years ago. And, my grandmother was gonna get rid of it. She’s like, well, nobody plays the piano.
[00:26:57] Zack Knight: We’re gonna get rid of it. What I was beating myself up about so much was like, well, I never took the time to learn the piano. I’m never gonna be able to golf again. I can’t ride my motorcycle anymore. And there was a moment of realization. I was actually on my way back from Fort Benning, it was a, a post-op appointment and it was storming.
[00:27:16] Zack Knight: I remember it so vividly. It was like one of those whiteout storms going back from Fort Benning and it was just miserable in traffic. And it kind of hit me. I’m like. Man, the only person that’s telling me I can’t play the piano is the guy looking at me in the mirror. So on the way home, I literally started calling around to different places.
[00:27:36] Zack Knight: I’m like, you know what? I’m gonna learn to play the piano. So I found a piano. It’s sitting just on the other side of my computer. and I got obsessive about teaching myself how to play the piano, even though with weighted keys of the piano and not having any grip strength in my left hand, uh, I couldn’t press the keys properly.
[00:27:51] Zack Knight: So I had to like teach myself. A different technique to play the piano because the really enlightening moment was like. If classical music is such a relaxing thing to listen to, how empowering would it be to actually create it myself? So for the next several weeks, I spent 6, 8, 10 hours a day just learning how to play music.
[00:28:13] Zack Knight: And within that timeframe I was playing Bach and Beethoven and It was a form of meditation and it was a way to say, no matter how injured or or broken my body was at the time, there really was hope on the other side.
[00:28:26] Zack Knight: I was telling myself I couldn’t do these things. So how do I prove to myself I could, and nobody’s ever heard me play the piano. It’s still not great. I am not ever gonna end up doing a concert by any means, but it’s just one of those things that signifies to me like I am capable as long as we have the forethought to not self-defeat, if that
[00:28:47] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, uh, you want to talk sound immersion yoga.
[00:28:51] Zack Knight: Man, one of the weirdest experiences of my life.
[00:28:55] Lloyd Knight: So,
[00:28:56] Zack Knight: and I have to say, it did get relaxing enough that I’m pretty sure I fell asleep a couple times, uh, which is kind of the point, right? You gotta relax enough.
[00:29:04] Lloyd Knight: so the, uh, Zach, uh, when, when, when my late wife passed away, Zach was there for me in a big way. Like so many of, of my brothers and sisters in in Atlanta were. and Zach, we talked about box breathing. ’cause box breathing really helped me. We talked about yoga and the, uh, yoga really helped me. And then Zach was like, Hey brother, if you ever need me there for anything, I’ll be there.
[00:29:27] Lloyd Knight: And like a week later, an opportunity came out for, to participate in some sound immersion yoga, and it was a little bit too hippie for me to go by myself. I needed a wingman or battle buddy, whatever. so I called Zach up and, and without hesitation he was like, I’m there for you. And, and then,
[00:29:46] Zack Knight: And to be fair, I didn’t know what the heck it was. I didn’t know what I was agreeing to either. To be
[00:29:50] Zack Knight: fair.
[00:29:50] Lloyd Knight: and, and and to be fair, it was pretty weird. we get there and I can’t say it was earth shattering or anything, that it was an experience probably what was, what was. More therapeutic for me was we went out to dinner afterwards and had this great conversation, what the future was gonna look like, and then he went again with me and the second time was a lot better and he actually fell asleep.
[00:30:13] Lloyd Knight: I think I probably fell asleep. And so I always appreciate that the, uh. And I, uh, learned, learned a lot from you, and you were there for me in a big way. so thank you. Um, so one of the things I, I really want to dive into, I actually, I wanted dive into the, the, the,
[00:30:29] Zack Knight: And before Can I, can I interrupt real quick? I’m sorry. You know, I, I think there’s a great piece there and I always appreciate, um, you bringing up the story ’cause it’s such a great memory and bonding point for us. But the fact that you had the courage to ask Right. And I think there’s such an important piece there for veterans.
[00:30:47] Zack Knight: ’cause I didn’t do it. I didn’t ask anybody for help, It was that isolation where I didn’t. Didn’t think anybody could help me. ’cause I thought nobody understands what the hell I’m going through.
[00:30:56] Lloyd Knight: Yeah.
[00:30:57] Zack Knight: And to a degree, it’s a human condition where all of us think it’s the worst thing happening.
[00:31:01] Zack Knight: Nobody knows anything that I’m going through. The fact that you had the courage, I wanna shout that out. You had the courage to say, Hey man, I wanna go do this thing and it might be kinda weird and I just really need somebody there with me. That is just a testament to who you are as a human, as a man, as a friend.
[00:31:17] Zack Knight: That I don’t think we do that enough. So I have to shout that out back to you. It was like props to you for even asking. It was weird. I’m, I’m never gonna say it wasn’t weird, but the fact that you at least asked, I think was just, uh, monumental in identifying who you are as.
[00:31:32] Lloyd Knight:
[00:31:32] Lloyd Knight: All right, let’s, let’s get off of that before I start tearing up. So the, uh, um, so I, I really wanna spend some time talking about, uh, uh, ATLVets and the, both the.
[00:31:43] Lloyd Knight: nonprofit side of the house and as you’re expanding to the different cities. And then I’m gonna take a big dive back into the entrepreneur side and, and talk about where you’re at there, what’s worked, what hasn’t, and then, uh, what the, what the what the future. I know you’ve learned a lot of lessons.
[00:32:00] Lloyd Knight: let’s get, uh, into a TL vet. So, one of the things I, I really liked is, so you come out, you start volunteering for Vet Atlanta and for those o of you, the viewers and listeners, if you don’t know about Vet Atlanta, we’re just a club.
[00:32:14] Lloyd Knight: We’re not a 5 0 1 C organization. We don’t do any fundraising. We operate off of sole in kind. We’re not a service organization and we’re also only focused in the greater Atlanta area, which is the 22 counties. one of the things I love that you did and you’ve done very successfully, what other people have tried to do but not successfully you, you’re like, Hey, I, I, I want to find something that’s gonna compliment that Atlanta and, and then also, be something they’re not, you know, I’m gonna be a, a nonprofit.
[00:32:44] Lloyd Knight: I’m gonna be a service organization and I’m gonna be able to, go outside of the, the, the bounds of, of, of, of Georgia. So can you talk a little bit about your, your mindset and starting that and, and really where you’re at today? Did you ever envision that and is it much different from what you originally thought it was gonna be?
[00:33:03] Lloyd Knight: Or is it kind of how you, you were planning it from the start?
[00:33:06] Zack Knight: I’ll say, first and foremost, for anybody that has a thought about starting a nonprofit, don’t freaking do it. Oh my goodness gracious. Think long and hard, for all the businesses I have and do own,Founding ATLVets, and the ATL is a play in Atlanta. Wanted to draw back and, and you told me this, Atlanta’s not seen as a veteran city nationally.
[00:33:29] Zack Knight: And there are a lot of chapters of national organizations that are here that aren’t supported as well because people don’t see Atlanta as a veteran city. Right. I know that’s a big shift that you’re really pushing hard on, is really recognizing, ’cause Georgia as a whole is like the sixth largest veteran community in the country.
[00:33:46] Zack Knight: but the nonprofit space is, is one of the most freaking difficult man. people say they wanna collaborate, and that is not true
[00:33:54] Lloyd Knight: it’s a different C word. It’s the different C word. They want to compete actually, they don’t wanna compete. So they, they see you as a threat. They, uh, yeah, absolutely. So.
[00:34:05] Zack Knight: it’s insane. And, um, collaboration is, it’s truly the, the. Place I started, what I, what I saw with Atlanta, and this is by no means taken away what, what you’ve done with Atlanta,
[00:34:16] Zack Knight: part of what I saw missing was. the quarterly summits are phenomenal. What happens between ’em? How do we keep the continuity? and then being a chartered club has its own challenges. There’s no money, there’s no bank account, there’s no finance, so when you look at how do you grow, how do you impact, how do you scale becomes a whole different challenge.
[00:34:35] Zack Knight: So truly, like ATLVets started in two veins. How do I. Plus of the resources of organizations that deserve it. Vet Atlanta being the foundational first one. and then secondarily to that, I kept going through these other programs and I won’t go down my, my list of, but a lot of organizations really focus on the three to four year.
[00:35:02] Zack Knight: Veteran that is 22 years old. Here’s how you fill out a resume. Here’s how you get a warehouse job. Here’s how you put on a LinkedIn profile. And then on the business side, here’s how you file an LLC. Here’s how you, uh, think about sales and marketing. And at that point, I’d already been offered eight figures for that dance project.
[00:35:26] Zack Knight: I had already had multiple six figure. Multi-six figure businesses. I had already had my MBA had already had the professional career on the police side, 10 years of professional life prior to the military. I don’t mean any disrespect organizations, but I kept getting offered these basic services that I’m like, y’all, I’m past this.
[00:35:46] Zack Knight: And at one point going through an entrepreneurial cohort, I ended up teaching it and I’m like, this just doesn’t make sense. where’s the now? What? I’ve been through the transition. I’ve done this, I’ve done that. Now what do I do? And I couldn’t find the now what? So with ATLVets, the idea is how do we truly collaborate and become a.
[00:36:03] Zack Knight: magnifying glass to people making a massive impact across the country. And then how do we solve for now what? And it, it’s been incredible. we’re, we’re almost at the peak of Mount Everest with our Veteran Center of Excellence.
[00:36:19] Zack Knight: Every branch in the military has a schoolhouse. Right. For the Army, it is Fort Benning, the Maneuver Center of Excellence everything that happens in the Army, goes through Fort Benning, basic training officer, school infantry, school, airborne
[00:36:33] Zack Knight: There’s this one building where the learn knowledge happens. It’s a classroom, it’s a schoolhouse. And in the veteran space, there’s nowhere for us to learn how to be a citizen again. and that’s something that, uh, this morning General McChrystal said, he is like, it’s not necessarily being a civilian, it’s how do you be a citizen?
[00:36:51] Zack Knight: And it’s such a great reframing because. Most veterans are never taught to be a successful citizen after the military. How do you contribute? How do you find your place? and that’s what I’ve really seen ATLVets evolve into is we’re able to plus up things like Vet Lana where we can create some continuity.
[00:37:09] Zack Knight: We can. Enhance the community. We can put a magnifying glass like Vet Atlanta’s all over our stuff. So if you see us in Tampa or Dallas or Nashville, well Vet Atlanta’s seen right there. So if anybody ever comes to Atlanta or moves to Georgia after the military, you know, vet Atlanta’s forward facing, I’ve gotta be a part of that world.
[00:37:25] Zack Knight: And we’ve done that very well. We had a a, a young guy. Retire out of, Huntsville, and he is like, Hey man, the wife wants to move to Tampa and I’ve seen your stuff and I see you’re in Tampa a lot. Can you get me plugged in? Well, absolutely. Here’s a list of organizations you need to go to that are vetted and I think they’re phenomenal.
[00:37:42] Zack Knight: Um. And then on the now what piece? All of our programs are designed very differently, which has been its own challenge. a lot of what we were told is why another veteran organization, we already have a veteran organization. There’s so many nonprofits, 11,000 nonprofits in, in the state of Georgia.
[00:37:57] Zack Knight: so I’m like, well, if, if. Every nonprofit was great at what they do and if, if every veteran government agency was good at what they do, we wouldn’t have 22 a day. There wouldn’t be a gap where veterans still need something. So obviously there’s entrepreneurial plight. There’s something missing, and I can attest for it ’cause I couldn’t find.
[00:38:18] Zack Knight: so all of our programs, we just rolled out four new ones this year. we just launched our mobile app. So our, our leadership institute is on, apple stores. It’s on the Google, whatever. Android uses the Google Play Store, whatever that is.but our mobile app just went live, um, with our leadership institute and all of our programs are designed to be a continuity development.
[00:38:37] Zack Knight: There is no traditional graduation. It’s not a three month cohort where you’re gonna get water boarded with information. And then be set off into the world to go succeed because that’s. Kind of the problem, right, is there’s no continuity. And if you look at the military, if you stay in the military, if you get in, I got in as an E four and got all the way up to oh three, there is a track.
[00:38:59] Zack Knight: They put you on this railroad track, this train track, and if you stay in long enough, they will give you the next school, the next assignment, the next thing. When you get into the civilian world and you become a citizen, there is no path for you and you, it’s really hard for veterans after 20 years, and most of the veterans we serve are that.
[00:39:17] Zack Knight: 15 or 20 year individual that gets out. It’s like, now what do I do? the civilian world isn’t cut and dry like that. You don’t necessarily know where you can make your mark. You don’t necessarily know the next step. Uh, you get into the corporate world and there’s no clear cut path for advancement. So our programs are designed that way.
[00:39:34] Zack Knight: We don’t graduate you, we elevate you to the next level. so it’s all about continuity development. we just rolled out a men’s program, a women’s program. We’re launching our spiritual education program, which is something that you’ve inspired in so many ways for us to figure out how can we make an impact in the spiritual.
[00:39:51] Zack Knight: side of the veteran, kind of going back to that PTS, uh, deeper conversation about moral injury and how do wesolve the head heart issues that a lot of us face. and then we just rolled out a manufacturing. Pathway with Georgia Associate Manufacturing. That is a multi-year track that solves retention rates for manufacturing and for veterans.
[00:40:14] Zack Knight: But it’s all about that continuity. And that’s where we’re differentyou’re not gonna come to us for three or six months. We’re gonna figure out what is your individualized roadmap, how do we plus you up and keep you going in the right direction? Then now we’re in 12 states. Uh, we’ve just brought on five new team members since the first of the year.
[00:40:30] Zack Knight: Uh, six actually. Uh, our chief development officer starts Wednesday. Um, and as we grow geographically. as you find out about us, we’re gonna highlight local veteran organizations making an impact in San Diego. Perfect. Here’s where you go when you’re in San Diego. ’cause we’re not the end all, be all. We wanna collaborate with the people in San Diego because it makes so much more sense for you to be in person with them and then come to us on a broader scale than it does for me to say, yep, I’m the guy in San Diego.
[00:41:00] Zack Knight: Well, I’m not. Uh, so that collaboration effort and that now what? Solution is really where we’ve grown and it’s been incredible. We got a lot of work to do, but we’ve hit some really awesome success points and we turned three years old in two months, so it’s incredible to see how quick we’ve
[00:41:18] Lloyd Knight: Yeah, man. Three years, it seems like 30 I.
[00:41:24] Zack Knight: I had hair back then. Yeah.
[00:41:26] Lloyd Knight: Well, well, I’m proud. I’m proud of you. So the, uh, I, I’m not only proud of you. I’m, I’m, I’m proud of some of the folks that helped you along the way, Taylor, being one of them. The, uh, so the, uh, you, you’re doing a great job. So,what does the for-profit side of the house look like for you these days?
[00:41:43] Zack Knight: Man, so I mentioned the security firm. still have it actually. I have one client, uh, here in Atlanta that it takes up a lot of my time started as a security consultant and it has shifted and morphed into, an operational component. Um, still have the media company. I don’t talk a lot about either of those ’cause they’re not the.
[00:42:03] Zack Knight: Purpose and passion of what I really wanna focus on. but the media company, our first pillar in ATLVets is marketing. So a lot of what you see media wise from photographer, videographer, web design, Capabilities a lot of nonprofits don’t have. My team built our app. Uh, we have a full online community, virtual community, asynchronous learning, virtual training platform.
[00:42:26] Zack Knight: so that media company designed all that for us, and that team built that out for us. We’re in a, a totally different, level than an organization. Two and a half years old with minimal funding should be able to accomplish. so the media company’s still going really strong. but outside of that, about two years ago, I, I started a private equity firm with two Navy guys.
[00:42:45] Zack Knight: God love them. had to diversify a little bit, but our private equity side is. Really, it’s all an ecosystem. As you start thinking about it, how does one play into the other and support the other? so the private equity side, we acquire companies and then we take veterans out of aATLVets. We have an entrepreneur track, and in that track it, it’s our senior leader track.
[00:43:06] Zack Knight: If you have a business and you wanna scale it. That, that tracks for you. However, if you want to not start your own business, but you wanna become an owner of an eight figure company, that track, is designed to teach you all the business. Uh, how do you run a business as a whole, and then patriot your growth capital.
[00:43:23] Zack Knight: The private equity side recruits veteran and veteran family members out of that program. Then we put ’em on a six figure salary and put them through a five year practical MBA where we teach that person to change light bulbs, vacuum the floor, everything you need to know about running that eight figure company.
[00:43:42] Zack Knight: And then at the five-year mark, we have a, a transition of ownership for that person into owning that company. And then the, the beauty of that, as the private equity firm grows, there’s a 5% rev share back to ATLVets for our sustainability model. and it’s growing. Um. I knew nothing about private equity two years ago, and it has been a journey of acquiring businesses.
[00:44:04] Zack Knight: And we actually had an acquisition, this past September and placed our first veteran family member to be the owner operator of that company in November. Uh, and it’s been a wild ride, man, and lots of lessons learned there. if I look back at, do I start a business? Do I buy a business? buying a business is a great solution and, and part of it.
[00:44:24] Zack Knight: That’s a limiter for, in my mind, was I don’t have, you know, $10 million to go buy a company. Um, the acquisition we got is a 14 million in revenue, arts and crafts company. So Patriot growth solves for that. We, we can get the capital, we just need the veteran community that gets trained as open to learning something new.
[00:44:43] Zack Knight: To then be placed as owner operators. So a lot of lessons across all of those. But the, the real tie in is it’s an ecosystem. Each one of them feeds the beast, if that makes sense. So where a lot of people look at what I do, personally, like, man, you’re scattered, you’re doing so many things. I’m like, yes, and I’m doing a lot of things that support the central mission, if that makes sense.
[00:45:06] Lloyd Knight: And by the way, you have a job.
[00:45:07] Zack Knight: So that, that’s the security client that turned into a job that turned into a lot of hours. they brought me in as a security consultant originally, and then it’s evolved into a senior vice president of operations role where now I manage eight departments of a, Very large institution here in Atlanta.
[00:45:28] Zack Knight: Um, so that’s the good and the bad of entrepreneurship, right? You do a really good job and then they keep offering you more, and then you keep saying yes, and all of a sudden it evolves into, a full job it seems like.
[00:45:39] Lloyd Knight: So the, uh, so you got a lot going on. Uh, what do you and Taylor do for fun?
[00:45:44] Zack Knight: I would love to say we spend the weekends, you know, galling around the world. but these weekends are spent on my doctorate and writing papers. Um. So what is fun? Uh, let’s see, date night.God bless Taylor man. I cannot speak enough about, partner selection, especially as veterans.
[00:46:04] Zack Knight: It’s so key and. You know, Tay, she is just a, a superstar. She’s the better three quarters by far, I met her right when I moved back to Atlanta, so she saw all the dark and the dirty and the messy and, uh, she saw potential also. And, and she stayed by me in so many ways.
[00:46:22] Zack Knight: And, um, one of the big standards we set. because veterans are, are great at being mission oriented and we’re great at being task oriented, great at being focused. The bad part is, is we get outta the military. We keep that same mindset of like, business is now the focus, right? So you get mission oriented and you’re so focused, you’re doing so many things.
[00:46:42] Zack Knight: but one standard that we’ve kept is five o’clock on every Friday is te time. And we have a date night every single Friday. It’s usually queso and margaritas. and that’s her, her cheat meal for the week. you mentioned the, the puppy dog. We have a, she turns a year old in a week.
[00:46:56] Zack Knight: she got me a Belgian Malis, for my birthday last year. And, um, it’s, it’s family time, bro. Like, we don’t, we don’t have any kids yet, so it’s like, you know, going to the park on the weekends is been amazing, like taking the kid to the park. I taught rogue how to play soccer, so now I go play soccer with her for hours at the park.
[00:47:14] Zack Knight: And it’s like the small moments, man, like right after this, she’s got dinner ready for me and we’re gonna just veg out and watch TV and talk about her day, right? So there’s so many key moments of just stopping to smell the roses is a lot of fun for us
[00:47:27] Lloyd Knight: Yeah. Well, that’s good. So I, I need to learn from you for sure. So the, uh, Sarah Knight, I’m listening to you, so.
[00:47:37] Zack Knight: That is key. Always listen to your woman. She’s always right. That is
[00:47:41] Lloyd Knight: I’m gonna take some lessons from, from, from Zach again, so, well, Zach, thanks so much. So I, I appreciate your partnership. I, I appreciate what you’re doing for veterans. Thank you for your, your, your service in and outta uniform, and you have any closing comments?
[00:47:56] Zack Knight: Man. Uh, first off, thank you for having me on this man. I, I, I’ve seen your, your trajectory and your growth and, your dedication to the craft. Atlanta’s not an easy thing to run, man. Um, so I, I gotta give you a shout out ’cause you’re an inspiration in so many ways that I probably should tell you more about,and say more often.
[00:48:14] Zack Knight: but that, that’s a big thing. get tied into the community. There are some good people out here that really give a darn about vets. Really give a darn about your success personally. just gotta make that ask. Take the leap, jump in and, and get involved.
[00:48:27] Lloyd Knight: That’s awesome. Great, great advice and thank you, Zach. And I’m gonna close it like I always close it. Well be like Zach Knight, be safe. Be kind and be remarkable.
