Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and the one only Marty Parker with you here on Supply Chain. Now welcome to today’s live stream, Marty. How you doing today?

Marty Parker (00:24):

Fantastic, Scott, thrilled to be here with you.

Scott Luton (00:26):

I am too. We’re kind of getting swept away with all this rain we’re getting here in metro Atlanta. It’s been raining since yesterday and my kids have started building the arc in the backyard, so we’ll see where that project goes. And by the way, lumber lumber’s up. Marty Lumber’s up. Let’s see here. But you and I are based in metro Atlanta. We got Leah tuned in back with us from Seattle. Get Leah. We got to ask for the weather report up there and Tricia tuned in from the Cincinnati area. Happy Buzz day folks. Let us know where you are from. We love making the connections. And Marty today as always, it’s the buzz where every Monday at 12 noon eastern time, we discuss a variety of news developments across global supply chain and business. And today, well news that matters as we like to call it. But today we’re getting into a supply chain leadership pulse check. We’re going to be talking holiday toys and Halloween supply chains. We’re getting into stress tests and scenario modeling. I bet all that and much, much more. And Marty, in about 10 minutes or so, we’ll be welcoming a special repeat guest here on the Buzz, Don Hicks, founder and CEO of Opti Logic, who’s going to be talking about supply chain design, sourcing shifts, and a whole bunch more. Marty should be a great addition of the buzz here today, huh?

Marty Parker (01:35):

Absolutely. You had me at Halloween, by the way.

Scott Luton (01:37):

Oh, I did. Okay.

Marty Parker (01:38):

Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Luton (01:39):

Well, you and I are a lot alike, but that’s one area we’re not alike. Halloween is not my favorite holiday,

(01:46):

But hey, missed opportunities I guess. But folks, I should say the buzz is powered by our friends at Auto Scheduler who’s on a mission to make your warehouse operations smarter, more efficient and adaptable. You can learn more@autoscheduler.ai. Okay, so Marty, before we get going, I got two more things to share with folks. Two more encouraging things folks. Number one, give us your take into comments, whether you’re tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube X, Facebook, Twitch, no matter, let us know what you think. And if you enjoy the show today, we’d love for you to share it with a friend and or your network. I’ll be glad you did. And speaking of Leah giving us a weather report, rainy and windy up there in Seattle. That’s kind of intuitive, don’t you think, Marty? That would’ve been my guest. That would’ve been my guest too. Let’s see, T squared tuned in says Good Monday. And bring on the good nourishment. We got a great show just for you. T squared, who hails from Baltimore. And this is Andrew from, I’m going to get it wrong again. Schrock, she saving the supply chain with Breach Aware. Andrew, hope this finds you well over there across the Atlantic. Did I say that right? You think Marty SHR shear?

Marty Parker (02:50):

I have no idea. Sch Shire been my guess.

Scott Luton (02:53):

Okay, Andrew always corrects me. We’re going to make sure we

Marty Parker (02:57):

Get Oh no sch shear. You’re right.

Scott Luton (02:59):

Okay. Okay. I get things right every once in a while. Hey, one more quick shout out, Gino, pleasure is back with us. Happy Monday to you as well, my friend. Hope this finds you well in North Alabama. It’s been a while. We’ll have to catch up soon, Gino. Okay, let’s see here. Before we bring on our big guest, really quite a legend in supply chain circles, Don Hicks, you’re going to love hearing from him. But before we do that, we want to hit three things on the buzz powered by auto scheduler. First up, are you ready, Marty?

Marty Parker (03:26):

I’m

Scott Luton (03:26):

Ready to go. You are always ready to go. Always. You always eat your Wheaties or whatever the 2025 version of that is. I’m not sure what it is, Marty, but the Wheaties aren’t nearly as iconic as they once were, huh? No,

Marty Parker (03:40):

Mine’s usually like a bowl of yogurt or something in the morning.

Scott Luton (03:42):

Ah, okay. The healthy side of things. Okay. All right. So let’s talk about with that said, which we published over the weekend. So in this almost weekly newsletter we started with big supply chain tech news from our friends at SAP, as they’ve rolled out several new products including SAP Supply Chain Orchestration. We touched on my terrific conversation along with Christine Barnhart that I had with Craig Jones, chief Supply Chain Officer with own or own Running. Some folks out in the marketplace may know them as, Hey, I love my cloud six shoes. Marty, I’m not sure. Do you have a pair of own shoes?

Marty Parker (04:15):

I don’t. I need to try ’em out though.

Scott Luton (04:17):

You got to try ’em out. They’re fast growth. They’re taking over the world. I’ll tell you what, cloud sixes are one of their most popular pairs of shoes. I’ve got a couple here, love them. But I love this perspective here. Craig said, tech should help people not stress them out. Marty, I love that. I love that we need more of that and not just in global supply chains, but in global business. We also included resources, live events, and a whole bunch more in the latest edition of With that said, so Marty, did you get a chance to check it out over the weekend?

Marty Parker (04:47):

I sure did. And ironically, my leadership video today is on that very topic of AI and leaders trying to integrate it with their teams. But I just love the good news and I love that good looking guy that was in the picture. I can testify that he looks like that in person too. I implemented SAPI like to tell people the world’s best implementation. It went really, really well. And a lot of good news there about how they’re adapting to the market and

Scott Luton (05:14):

All the leadership around there. I’m with it. I’m with you. And it’s interesting market developments, which we’re going to dive more into things just start with the announcement. They’ll be interesting to see how as the market embraces, how it evolves from here. So folks, check out your own edition of, with that said, Trisha’s dropping a link right there. Let’s see here. So Andrew gives us a nine out of 10 in our pronunciation of Srap Shear. I’m going to get it right, Andrew, but great to have you. Thank you for the scoring, the probably very generous scoring, Larry Klein tuned in from South Georgia. Hope this finds you well, my friend Yasin, who I spent a little time with earlier today. Yasin great to see you here today. And Amanda says, no AI or filters in use on the buzz for Scott, y’all. It’s true. She speaks the truth as always. And also Marty, along those lines, we don’t need any clone of you or me out in the market, do

Marty Parker (06:07):

We? Absolutely not. I just saw there is one of Susan Summers though.

Scott Luton (06:11):

Really?

Marty Parker (06:12):

Yeah. Google that from, what was that TV show with John Ritter? Three’s company. Three’s company, yeah. Her husband has taken all of her stuff and created a bot and is going to allow us to talk to her and talk about how real it is. So fortunately, you and I are real. We’re not bots.

Scott Luton (06:28):

No, absolutely. Come on, knock on our door. Take a step. That is new. That’s how it goes. Okay, let’s shift gears. No more singing. Scott. I want to get into a quick supply chain leadership pulse check. One of my favorite ongoing features here, and Marty, I’ll tell you every time you join, actually, we got a bevy of incredible co-hosts here, executive practitioners that done big things, industry including Marty, Parker, and Marty. I’ll tell you, I’m jealous. You’re afforded the terrific opportunity of rubbing elbows with industry leaders on an almost daily basis. I mean, usually I get four or five days a weekend we use almost daily. Now, recently, you enjoyed what I think’s got to be a fascinating visit with the King Hawaiian organization, the King Hawaiian organization in particular, their supply chain team, and even its greater ecosystem. What was a key takeaway from all those great conversations, Marty?

Marty Parker (07:14):

I think it’s their aloha values. I’ve got ’em here. Excellence, dignity, telling it like it is in a way that can be heard and having courage. I love that, telling it like it is, but in a way that can be heard. We need to be direct in our communications as leaders, but we need to have a balance of empathy so that folks will hear it. But what a great organization that lives its values every day. And I know that because I’ve got a former student, Jeff Ky over there in supply chain. He was president of our supply chain board and he talks about it in such a great way every day.

Scott Luton (07:48):

Oh, I love it. And Marty, we’re going to be fortunate to have one of their fearless supply chain leaders with us, I think on the podcast in January. And folks, if you don’t know King Hawaiian Marty, they make some of the most delicious food products out there, especially breads and rolls and buns. And even this new pretzel like product you were talking about earlier,

Marty Parker (08:06):

You pretzel bites. Yes

Scott Luton (08:08):

Bites, man.

Marty Parker (08:09):

Yeah, they’re banned from my house because they come in a box, but it’s like a single serving. Oh man, it’s insane. And they’ve got several versions. They also bought gorillas, pickles, and Killer brownies. So they, they’re really diversifying and growing their sort of baked goods, which is outstanding.

Scott Luton (08:26):

It is. We look forward to doing a pulse check with them. All that, kidding aside, one of the heart of the message that Marty just shared, Frank being direct, we can’t get enough frankness and especially folks, if you work with people or if you’re one person that tells it like it is, keep doing that because our supply chain ecosystems, global businesses, better teams are more successful when we can be really frank and candid with each other about the good, the bad, and sometimes ugly. And by the way, Larry and Yasin and Andrew and Gino and many others, give us your take on any advice around how we can communicate frankly and candidly, any tips from your journeys? Okay, I’ve got one more thing before we bring on an outstanding guest. And Marty, we want to talk about the good folks over at Amazon Business. We all know how challenging it can be to keep business buying simple and cost effective, especially as we’re growing and growing and growing.

(09:20):

Hey, our friends at Amazon business streamlined sourcing processes. Get this for over 8 million organizations with features like fast consolidated delivery. Of course that’s almost synonymous with Amazon business only pricing, AI driven purchasing insights, and a whole bunch more. Explore what Amazon business can offer your business@business.amazon.com. And as always, Tricia is dropping. She’s Johnny on the spot. Tricia’s dropping that link right there in the chat. Okay, Marty, man, we’re ahead of schedule. We’re being so efficient this fine Monday morning, October 27th. So with that, I want to ask you one more quick question. Going back to King’s Hawaiian and in particular the supplier summit you attended via their supply chain team up in Indianapolis. I bet you saw them living out their values of communication and trust and candor with their highly appreciated supplier ecosystem right there at that event, huh?

Marty Parker (10:15):

No, absolutely. I’ll tell you a brief story. I was coming into the last supplier summit, lost. I was a little bit late and somebody grabbed me, took me on a tour, helped me find the food and the beloved Margaritas and Fruity Hawaiian drinks that they had and do. It was Mark, the CEO. And I had no idea, I had absolutely no idea it was in their leadership is there to serve and demonstrate that servant leadership in a real way. So Murray Jenkins, who you’re bringing on my student Jeff, they’re all like, and it’s really a difference maker I think.

Scott Luton (10:50):

Love it. Top down, love that type of keep it real leadership. And you’re right, it sets the tone for the culture. It’s the protector of the culture. And like the old saying goes, don’t do what I say, do what I do. Right? So folks got to model the behaviors we want. Speaking of candid conversation, o LK says, I have found a way to remove emotion from the conversation, especially when I have to have a difficult conversation. Now that reminds me of what our peer Corinne bursa Marty likes to say, facts, not feelings. It’s one of her mantras. I’ve really enjoyed good stuff there, Larry. Okay, so now that we’re back right on time, like the train pulling out of the station, Marty, we got a great guest coming in here today. Big guest Don Hicks brings a ton of passion and proven expertise when it comes to software technology development and real supply chain innovation. He has quite the track record of applying scientific and engineering methods to solve complex supply chain problems, old and new. Now, you may know Don Best as the founder of Llamasoft, a supply chain modeling and optimization analytics solution he created back in 1998. But now as we’re going to learn about, he’s on an exciting new mission as the CEO and founder of Opti Logic, an innovative leader in supply chain design. So please join me in welcoming Don Hicks, founder and CEO with Opti Logic. Hey Don, how are you doing today?

Don Hicks (12:11):

Good, Scott, how are you?

Scott Luton (12:12):

Wonderful, wonderful. Great to see you. Enjoy the pre-show. And Marty, you and I have been looking forward to this segment here on the Buzz, huh?

Marty Parker (12:18):

Absolutely. Can’t wait to learn all this stuff about what Opti Logic is doing and Don’s background. So interesting. Same Marty, good to

Scott Luton (12:26):

See you as well. So Don and Marty, we’re going to get into the conversation with a fun warmup question. So bear with me for a second because today it marks American Beer Day. Okay, that’s maybe a second best holiday. I don’t know. It depends on your preference. It’s National Mentoring Day, which we talked about last week with Tan Bellamy. It’s World Day for Audio Visual Heritage. I didn’t know that was a thing. Maybe we’re contributing to that heritage, I hope. But it’s also Navy Day where we celebrate the US Navy’s history and heritage. Yes, the birthday was about 10 days ago, but Navy Day has been celebrated for quite some time. And I think y’all check me out there. I think it’s also Teddy Roosevelt’s birthday, which of course is a big naval figure. But speaking of the military, some may not know that. Don, you are a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, right? And you later serve. How about this image? Some folks may not realize that West Point is up there in the beautiful, beautiful mountains of New York, right?

Don Hicks (13:22):

Yeah, it is. Right on the Hudson River right there where the river takes a big bend and there’s a ton of history there. It was actually placed there by General George Washington. Really? He said we should build a national academy for the military there,

Scott Luton (13:35):

Man. How about that? History a bounds. I’m a big old history nerd. I love that nugget. But some other folks may not know you later served as an officer in the US Army’s Field Artillery division in Germany, so West Point and then went out and served overseas. Appreciate your service. Thank you. I want to ask you, Don,

Don Hicks (13:51):

Yes,

Scott Luton (13:51):

I bet you could write a book on your time at West Point on the same ground as some of the most legendary folks in military history. What’s one nugget from your time at West Point, one of your favorite memories? Oh man.

Don Hicks (14:02):

There are many memories that are great that I cannot talk about on this show because there could be children, could be unsuspecting, people who stumble in, I guess in honor of Navy Day, which I didn’t know. I woke up this morning and something wasn’t quite right. I just didn’t feel as smart as I usually might. And I had a haze and I’m like, but Navy Day, it explains it all. And I will say, by the way, Navy and Army, this is a super healthy rivalry, but a rivalry, okay? And what I would point out is during the four years that I was there, in that little football game that happens every December, we won the first three of them in a row. And then just to try to change it up, we let Navy win on the fourth year. So I remember those kinds of times for the most part, celebrating victory, marching out there onto the field, looking around the stadium. It was tremendous. You can still, if you close your eyes, you can get right there.

Scott Luton (14:53):

Oh, I love it, Don. I love it. And Marty, my hunch is the University of Georgia might be a little bit easier on its students than West Point. Is that right, Marty?

Marty Parker (15:01):

Yeah, a hundred percent. Of course, in my head, I’m hearing in the Navy by the village people, which kind of matches up with Don’s comments, right?

Don Hicks (15:11):

It takes all types, Marty. Not everybody can be in the top half, half of everybody’s below average and the Navy is recruiting all the time, guys.

Marty Parker (15:21):

Seriously though, I think healthy competition makes us better, right? That’s right. It always makes us

Scott Luton (15:25):

Better. I’m going to hear from one Kevin L. Jackson in particular, Don, who joins us regularly, who went to the Annapolis and was a former Naval aviator. So yeah, I think we’re just going to take the discussion to a whole new level. But all that kidding aside, great to have you. I appreciate what you’ve done on behalf of the country and certainly on behalf of the industry, which we’re going to get into here in a second. Before we continue, want to bring, I think this is Andrew’s comment here, going back to candid conversation, which is so important. Andrew says, most people want to answer the question instead of listening to what the question is. Take your time and listen, Andrew, excellent piece of advice there. And you’re right, we’re all programmed to think about, okay, what am I going to say next instead of active listening? Alright, so getting down to business.

(16:05):

As purdy as this image is of West Point, we’ve got to get into some industry. We’re going to start with this story from Retail Dive, which reports that the pressure is owned at Mattel. Yes, that Mattel the iconic toy company, they’ve got to have a big successful Q4. Now Mattel, the maker of classic and popular toy brands such as Barbie, hot Wheels, Fisher-Price, many others, but has a disappointment in Q3 sales. Were off about 6% this year from Q3 in 2024. Now, Mattel senior leadership also recently talked about its shifts from its retail customers. This year, thanks to Tariff and the ongoing train war, primarily retailers have turned to domestic shipping, leaving Mattel’s team to handle importing and warehousing the goods. Retail customers are also said to be doubling down on the just in time approach. What’s old is new again, but also ordering a whole bunch more frequently. So Don, I’m taking just a few nuggets from this and now we’re seeing elements of this and many other manufacturers and companies out there. Your thoughts on what we hear about Mattel doing?

Don Hicks (17:05):

Well, there’s a couple of things, Scott. First of all, the guys at Mattel, I’ve had the pleasure to meet some of their supply chain executives. These are smart guys and gals, okay? These are people who are, they are already used to dealing with turbulence and change. A lot of folks didn’t get out of the 1980s and nineties, but these guys professionalize, they take all aspects of supply chain. They consider themselves to have a world-class supply chain organization, and they do. So change is nothing new for them. They can handle it. I think the real question is will they navigate and figure this one out? What happens next and what happens after that? We’re looking at Titanic changes in the global markets and it made sense to rely on Chinese manufacturing because they were cheap but also good. And now nobody really has a clear view into what the longer term looks like. That makes it virtually impossible to settle in on a strategy. So I know they’re quantifying, they’re able to deal with the short, medium term, but what do you do when the long term is truly uncertain?

Scott Luton (18:05):

Good stuff there, Don. And speaking of which, Marty, before I get you to comment, of course we’re all hearing about the tentative deal that the US struck with China over the weekend. We’ll see as more details come out and emerge there. But Marty, your thoughts on what we heard there from Don and the things that Mattel is doing just to, even if it’s not longer term vision at play, at least to make through the current environment,

Marty Parker (18:25):

No Don’s right. We really do need things to settle down and be clear. The best in supply chain are still struggling with all of this. I have to say though, I’m a girl dad, and so I’ve seen that movie several times. It’s outstanding, number one. Number two, it was a terrible day when my daughters told me, dad, you can no longer play Barbies with us. They were too old for me, Scott. It was a terrible day. And then third, an epic story for us is the day I strapped my sister’s Barbie to a bunch of giant rockets and tried to launch Barbie into orbit. But sadly back then, as you know, we didn’t have the same safety stuff and Barbie went up in a horrible set of flames. She was very flammable in the 1970s. It turns out

Scott Luton (19:12):

You need some artillery lessons from Don Hicks to complete that. Yeah,

Don Hicks (19:18):

We could have helped you go further with that, I’m sure.

Scott Luton (19:21):

Well folks check out Trisha is also dropping a link to the article from our friends at Retail Dive that we were just talking about. And yes, we’ll see what longer term footing we can gain as these negotiations continue. And for that matter, what comes in the next administration, that’ll be an interesting transfer point. But hey, I’m not ready for that just yet. Alright, let’s keep driving here. Let’s talk a little bit more about tariffs and how the judicial brand is poised to get even more involved. So as reported by our friends at Supply Chain Dive, the US Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments on November 5th, that’s just a couple days away, which we’ll focus on whether or not the White House’s usage of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act is lawful along with all the tariffs that of course have been applied. Lower courts have ruled against the tariff implementations largely Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett said that the federal government would have to refund about half of all the extra tariff income collected if the Supremes agree with the lower courts requesting tariff refunds for shippers of course isn’t new.

(20:23):

It happens, but if the legality of the current tariff policy is overturned with a scale and complexity of the refunds, that’s going to be colossal according to many analysts out there. Now get this, while oral arguments on tariffs are next week, many observers that we may be months away from full decisions being made, would the Supreme Court send it back to the lower courts or a lot to be determined, but it kind of like, that’s the theme I think for 2025, a lot to be determined. So Don, when I read this article, I got to share this analogy with you because when I read this article, it was like the proverbial cliche of getting toothpaste all back into the tube. That’s kind of what it feels like to me. But Don, you read here,

Don Hicks (21:04):

Well, I was actually reminded of a different quote from the movie in deference to our Navy friends Top Gun

Scott Luton (21:10):

When

Don Hicks (21:10):

They said, son, your mouth’s writing checks, your body can’t cash. And it seems to me like perhaps our Secretary of Treasury might be writing some, saying some stuff with his mouth that perhaps the government can’t actually even, they may not be able to even get all that stuff back on out there. And I guess I’d love to see us over time start to think before we talk and better yet think before we make policy. It’d be great to think some of these things through who knows what’s going to happen. But remember, just because he says something doesn’t mean they’re going to do it.

Scott Luton (21:43):

Don Well said. And Marty, when we try to bake that into, I think it’s one of the most important things. We can’t govern, we can’t make supply chain decisions on a press conference by a press conference basis. It’s got to be rooted in fact. But Marty, your thoughts on the judicial side of tariffs and trade policy?

Marty Parker (22:02):

Yeah, everything I’ve been reading is nobody’s making any decisions that are long-term and that’s not good. So we definitely need Supreme Court to decide we need to stop the ready, fire, aim stuff that’s happening. You can do Ready, fire, aim on a small scale with a small group of people, but not with the world trade situation. It has such negative impact. So yeah, I agree with Don’s take a hundred percent.

Scott Luton (22:29):

I’m hoping, and we’ll see, I hadn’t checked this morning, I was reading last night about the tentative deal with the US and China. I’ll tell you, I’d be very thankful if we can put that in place, get it on paper, get it signed now, will all parties execute and uphold the commitments? We’ll see, I think that’s always a concern, but at least that sliver, a little bit of sliver of certainty back in this big equation. Don, I take that in a heartbeat, would you? I would,

Don Hicks (22:54):

I would. But the problem right now is trust takes a long time to build and then you can lose it overnight. So the long-term damage, I think it’s not about the uncertainty, it’s about you can’t necessarily believe somebody when they tell you something. How long is that going to take to get on over to where we can trust each other’s promises?

Scott Luton (23:12):

Gosh, I dunno. That’s excellent. Call out Marty. We’ve said it once, we’ve said it a million times. Trust is one of the biggest currencies of global supply chain. And when we got it, we can move mountains when we don’t Got it. We can barely move t-shirts. Marty, your quick comment before I move on to one of my favorite recent,

Marty Parker (23:30):

Yeah, I agree. I’m a big capitalism guy, but I’m not a crony capitalism guy. And so what’s happening is these things go out and then all these exceptions get made and did you pay enough lobbyists to get your exceptions? And it is a mess. And I’ve said it before, Scott, that is terribly damaging to small companies. Big companies can pay and get around these things, small companies can’t. And our economy is mostly made up of small companies.

Scott Luton (23:56):

Good stuff there, Marty. We’ll see what happens. We’ll see what happens. Let’s move on to a much, much lighter note. Who’s ready for a lighter Monday? I know I am. Alright, let’s look at one of my favorite new t-shirts. Supply chain horror stories, shipment, delayed, broken link out of stock, lost package, and a lot more. None of those nightmares are new, but hey, Amazon’s got a great sense of humor. You can find this supply chain horror story right online, but it’s time for Halloween. And let’s talk about the Halloween supply chain. Now this comes from ThomasNet, a variety of Halloween supply chain ecosystem factoids. So check this out. A survey by the National Retail Federation is projecting a big consumer spending increase for Halloween this year. A record $13.1 billion is projected to be spent and thus up from under 1211 0.6 billion last year. Costumes are the number one spending category $4.3 billion. But greeting cards, greeting cards are surprisingly comes in at $700 million. Who in the heck sends Halloween greeting cards? I’ve never seen one. Marty Don, have you heard of Halloween greeting cards? No, but I’m reconsidering. I’m open to the

Don Hicks (25:05):

Concept.

Marty Parker (25:07):

Okay, I’m going to send you one. Scott, I want to get you to have more of a love of Halloween.

Scott Luton (25:11):

Oh, I love it. I love it. I’ll be looking. See back to costumes, big industry player, a party city purchased a factory in Madagascar almost solely to ramp up its competitive advantage and allow for more capacity and capabilities when it comes to manufacturing proprietary costumes. When it comes to candy, there are no holidays in the US bigger than Halloween. I read that each year and it still surprises me each year, but that along with the immediate falloff in demand that comes on November 1st, right? Puts a lot of pressure on manufacturers, distributors, and retailers. You got about six to eight weeks to make it, ship it, stock it, sell it, and essentially make it all happen before it all disappears. Folks make that a hard shift to other holidays, Christmas, Hanukkah, you name it. This year tariffs will play a part. Of course I’m tired of talking about tariffs, but hey, they still stick their head in every conversation, squeezing margins while pushing some prices to consumers higher and higher. Now Marty, before you joined this, I got one more nugget before I get Don to weigh in. Asked Don and Tricia pre-show, Hey, do you know what state leads the entire country here in the US and pumpkin manufacturing? I was like, I’m surely going to stump Don and Tricia. Don goes, it was Illinois about four 80 million pounds annually. Don nailed it. Wow. So Don, I’m not sure what you miss in global supply chain, but it’s not much. What do you find to be intriguing when it comes to the Halloween supply chain ecosystem?

Don Hicks (26:30):

So the interesting thing for me when you look at this is yes, it’s a promotion driven annual event. Okay? Now we don’t know what could happen. It’s quite possible the administration could choose to move Halloween to a different month and threaten it and then move it back. But assuming they leave it there, I want to point out that it seems volatile to us because of its short duration, but it’s not volatile to the people who study these things. They know it’s coming, they plan for it. It’s just a different type of demand spike people plan for Christmas spikes as well, which seems turbulent to us. But over time these patterns become very, very evident. So getting good at promotional drives, I think this is a key trait that you’ve got to get good at because then you can run your own promotions and create your own holidays periodically. If you can do well with this. It’s a source of competitive advantage,

Scott Luton (27:23):

Don. Well said. And you know what? To your point, it’s coming every year so you’re not going to be surprised with it. If you can get better at all the holidays, you can get better at tackling things like microbursts, which of course are fueled by social media and influencers, you name it. And it does present competitive advantage. Marty, your thoughts on any aspect of the Halloween ecosystem?

Marty Parker (27:42):

So I dressed up as a character despite being an executive every year. The first year I did it, I was the only one that did it. I was Franken Stoke and I never uttered a word, so I’d never get out of character. I just grunt it and I’d printed little pieces of paper with sames from folks in the office. Love it. Second, I’ve already picked out all of my milk duds from my Halloween candy. It’s a terrible thing because I’m addicted to milk duds. And so I’m already getting that candy rush. But thirdly, Scott, I just learned that the only movies that are still doing well, the box office are horror movies, dramas, don’t even go hardly to the box office anymore. And guess what? They significantly reduce anxiety. Really. So I’m going to send you a link to that. Apparently it does something kind to your scare, which really helps tame down anxiety.

Scott Luton (28:35):

Interesting,

Marty Parker (28:36):

Very counterintuitive. So Halloween is saving lives, Scott. Okay,

Scott Luton (28:41):

Well folks, I’d love to hear your take on Halloween, whether you love it or you don’t love it so much and check out the NRF is a great source for all kinds of statistics on any retail big holiday. The jump in spending really surprised me this year,

Don Hicks (28:54):

Scott, I’ll tell you one thing you don’t know that hasn’t come up. A couple of years ago I wrote a children’s book and it’s called Franken Walnut. I was just thinking about that with Marty in his costume. Franken Walnut is in the Amazon online store. 20% of all the sales go to anti-bullying causes. So it’s a great cause. And I was just out at an event this weekend and we were amazed at how many people are out there Halloween. It is bigger than ever. This is the biggest one I’ve seen in the last three or four years, man. So I’m not early data, it’s consistent with what I see out there on the

Scott Luton (29:27):

Street. All right, Don d Don Hicks is confirming it. So we know there’s something to these projections. And secondly, a Amanda and Tricia, if y’all could find Franken Walnut and let’s drop a link so folks can check it out right there in the chat.

Don Hicks (29:40):

Good cause.

Scott Luton (29:40):

Alright, I got one quick comment from Andrew. Andrew says Halloween is an American thing. Fortunately most of us Brits ignore it. Hey, maybe I should be overseas, Andrew, I don’t know. And one quick question before we move into some different questions for you Don, and cool things you and the logic team are doing. Both of y’all. Are you a fan or not a fan of Candy Corn? Don, this is a site black licorice you got for it or against it? Not many folks in the middle.

Don Hicks (30:04):

I’m for it. I’m a bit of a contrarian. If I had to eat it all year long, I’m sure I would be leading a crusade against it. But once a year your teeth start hurting immediately. You remember why you shouldn’t eat that much sugar, but it’s a once a year thing and to me it screams the holiday, so I love it.

Scott Luton (30:22):

Okay. All right, Marty, your thoughts on candy Corn? Not my faith. Okay.

Marty Parker (30:27):

I’m into the super sour ones and the super chocolate ones. So I think I’ve stimulated my Halloween taste buds. The point where Candy corn just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

Don Hicks (30:40):

Yeah, it has to have been made in the last three or four years. Once Candy corn is ordered more than five, 10 years old, then I’m no longer a fan, 20-year-old. No thanks.

Scott Luton (30:50):

That’s a good call out. That’s a good call out. We all probably have some candy corn from the 1980s somewhere in the closet. All right. And by the way, folks, anyone from Illinois, the pumpkin growing capital, of least the US chime in and lemme know what pumpkin prices are in your neck of the woods. I’d be curious. Okay, before we continue with Don and Marty, I want to do a quick message from our friends at Auto Scheduler, Keith Moore and the team rolled out a free warehouse agent about two weeks ago and it’s available to anyone out there. So if you want help forecasting labor against demand or analyzing load boards or thinking through labor shifts or my favorite crunching numbers and analyzing data, I need lots of help there. Use the warehouse decision agent for free and you can do it all in minutes rather than days. You can learn more at the link that Tricia is dropping right there in the chat. Really quick. Yasin says, coming from South Africa, the concept was strange. Candy corn is amazing. Okay ya very

Marty Parker (31:47):

Early in his candy journey.

Scott Luton (31:49):

That is right T squared says candy, corn and Brock’s caramel on deck, ready to go. Love it. Nice t squared. So Don, I want to dial our conversation in on some of the cool things you’re doing and what you’ve been doing and what you continue to do. So you and the Opti Logic team, amongst other things work with global manufacturers and retailers to design and run things like live stress tests and scenario modeling on supply chains. We know here you’re in friendly confines, kindred spirits. We know that this is absolutely critical, especially given all the policy shocks and swings and you name it. I love where you mentioned a second ago about who knows, Halloween may be moved. We got to question everything these days. Why is all this absolutely critical? So Scott,

Don Hicks (32:31):

It seems like a newly important concept and yet it’s as old as any kind of business or operation. And the way we try to look at it when we talk about at Opt logic, we focus on design, design of systems, design of supply chain networks, and we try to make a difference here. Design doesn’t specifically mean high level strategy design means changing the network, changing the system that you’re trying to run. So it’s about a mindset shift. We have to, and all of the businesses that are out there, we’re trying to make the best of our current situation, but we’re so busy trying to optimize what we have and make the decisions with the network I’m trying to run. It’s very, very difficult to pull your head out up and look around and say, well, what if I had a different network? What if things were different?

(33:15):

You really can’t plan and design simultaneously. The data’s the same. Now the algorithms are the same, but it’s about a mindset and a mind shift. So what we talk to our companies and our clients about is cultivating the discipline to both get better at your current network and constantly be changing and looking ahead and say, what if this, that, and these are not one or the other. You have to do both in order to survive and thrive. And none of that. You’ll notice I’m not talking about technology, I’m talking about the way people think. It’s something that applies to your life as well. You get so busy driving the kids to school or trying to figure this out, this problem today, you don’t take the time to step back and see the forest for the trees. And that’s what design is all about. The technology that’s out there today is making it easier than ever to do.

(34:03):

Very detailed, very complicated, very sophisticated look, aheads and alternatives. But if you don’t have the right mindset, you don’t really understand why any of that is important. When you do, you say, oh, well I’ve obviously got to do both. So we’re promoting first and foremost the notion of design sitting next to planning and execution. And when you do all of these things together, you have a secret formula because you can stay alive and thrive in these changes that are hitting week after week, day after day. But you’re also unafraid of the fact that we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future because I’ve got a team over here that’s charting it out and designing and redesigning and figuring it out. And companies like Mattel are doing that right now.

Scott Luton (34:43):

Well, we know something’s happening in the future. We know the Falcons aren’t going to Super Bowl. We know Atlanta Braves, it’s going to be a while. But oh kidding aside, that was quite a date. It was, man, goodness gracious. One big theme, Marty that I just heard there from Don and it’s age old, but it’s also the challenge as tough as ever is stop working in the business long enough to work on the business. When we talk about design for network and systems, that can be really tough because you don’t ever want to stop product getting out the door, right? What’d you hear there from Don Marty?

Marty Parker (35:14):

Yeah. Most manufacturing and supply chain locations are accidents of history. I had a factory in Rutland, Vermont that was placed there because the consultants girlfriend like the ski. So there are stories like that all over manufacturing, supply chain, and it turns out it’s sort of dynamic, right? That freight lane, cost change, shipping route costs change, the cost of warehousing changes, the cost of local deliveries changes. I mean it goes on and on and on. And people don’t go back and look at that stuff before the show talked about how I used this years ago, we saved like half a million dollars on a 40, $50 million business just by doing some older crude models. But what Don’s talking about is, hey, this and the data was really hard to get right now Don’s talking about how we can have these models, look at the planning, look at what we’re doing today and sort of reconcile those things. And just like you said, Scott, spend some time working on the business. A lot of savings to be had,

Scott Luton (36:14):

No doubt, no doubt, and lots of ways that we can empower the scale and the growth of the business much easier. I want to do this, I want to share. So Tricia, Don, and Marty, Tricia is on it as always. She found Frank and Walnut. It’s right there, folks go check it out. And it sounds like all the proceeds go to a great cause, anti-bullying cause love that. Thank you Tricia. I want to shift gears here for a minute though, Don. I want to talk about there’s been no shortage of pronouncements from the powers that be about big investments here, new plants, you name it. Marty, I’m not sure if it was you and I talking, but I’ve been trying to dive in deeper beyond the headlines, especially as time goes by to see how many of those announcements come to fruition. We’ve been tracking Rivian what was announced as a game-changing investment here in Georgia that we’re still tracking. We’ve got a long way to go along these lines. Don, get your thoughts on reshoring and Nearshoring, all this buzz. How are you advising global manufacturers when it comes to their options in this regard?

Don Hicks (37:14):

Well, this started this notion of reshoring and nearshoring. It actually does predate tariff, what I think of as tariff madness, the sort of things are all over the place, but people were already looking at this and it’s a good thing, okay, these shifts, they’re regional, they come in from time to time looking ahead. We’re always looking for we’re cheaper labor sources. Where is it easier for me to do business? China started as a low cost provider, but it’s not a low cost provider anymore. It’s a high skilled, high capability provider and there are still other places you can go. I think people will be looking into 10 or 20 years from now looking at setting up manufacturing sites in Sub-Saharan Africa. Quite frankly, whether you’re going to have a large burst of population, a lot of demographic growth, it doesn’t help you in the next five or 10 years, but we’re not settling down anytime soon.

(38:06):

I’m glad that companies are bringing in more than just cost. They’re looking at capability, they’re looking at lead time, they’re looking at complexity. They’re looking at safe regulatory environments where your people and your employees are being treated better. So all of this is a really good thing and I would just say there is no one long-term answer, evaluate it over the longer horizon. The capital matters less than the variable cost differentials. So paying attention to what are the of demographics and the environment that you can operate in. Those are things that take a long, long time to shift. And that’s honestly, that’s where you’re going to find the opportunities.

Scott Luton (38:43):

Don, man, Marty, I heard a lot there in the last two and a half minutes or so. What’d you hear, Marty?

Marty Parker (38:47):

Yeah, I agree. I take students to the Master’s golf tournament each year and one of the things I really appreciated about their sourcing approaches, they buy everything from the best in the world and whatever it is. So marble from Italy and certain clothing from Brazil and other things from other places, but best in the world. And so there’s a balance. We have a low cost. We also have who does it well, and I think there are just some industries that us manufacturing is, it’s gone and it’s not coming back despite what we want or desire because other people do it better than we do, but there are other industries where we do it better than anyone else. So you’ve got to find that balance between cost and quality just like Don was inferring.

Don Hicks (39:34):

Scott, if I can throw one more comment just to build off of that one. When you’re trying to rebuild manufacturing in the United States, I’m neutral myself on costs and tariffs as a tool. I do think tariffs alone are not going to build back an educated, skilled workforce that wants to go do these jobs. I’d love to see personally investments in education and building back in public schools to try to get that labor base, to have the people that could then go do those jobs. If you only tackle the one side, which is the costs, you’re not tackling the other side, which is a lot of reasons why manufacturing went away in the first place.

Scott Luton (40:08):

Well said Don. Well said. And Alan agrees with one of your earlier points. Alan, great to see you, my friend from the beautiful country of Canada. I’m pulling for the Blue Jays, by the way, Alan in the World Series. I should say for some of our non baseball followers, Alan says, agree with Don. There was a ton of re or nearshoring activity in response to COVID. That’s right. No doubt. I was going to add, see Don, you touched on Africa and the immense talent factor across the beautiful continent, so many different countries that make up the continent of Africa. And it’s so true. In fact, you seen, I was just talking to him earlier today, the data from a sheer number standpoint, but also the entrepreneurial, the practitioner quotient, the brilliance, the ideas, the invention. I’ve been fortunate to spend time in Cape Town twice in the last three years where we had people from 50 different countries, a lot of them across Africa, right there, talk supply chain from healthcare to you name it. It is nothing short of amazing the opportunities that are found now on the continent. But then to your point, just a few years down the road, okay, so I’m going to make a hard shift. Alan, by the way, says, go Jays Don. Are you picking Dodgers or Blue Jays in the World Series?

Don Hicks (41:16):

Well, my Detroit Tigers are now watching this on tv, so I guess I am too, and I just hope for great baseball.

Scott Luton (41:23):

Okay. All right. Fair enough. Marty, you picking one or the other?

Marty Parker (41:26):

I’m the same. The Braves have left us, right?

Scott Luton (41:30):

Well, we’ll see. There’s always 20, 26. And by the way, to Tigers, I think surprised a bunch of folks in the baseball arenas this year. So I was reading a recent address that you had to your organization, Don a few months back. I love that picture by the way. Let’s see here. And there’s lots of different elements. We could be here for a couple hours talking about a lot of things you touched on in your addressed, your hardworking and innovative team. I got two questions for you. The first one is right up your alley. It seems like you’ve spent a big chunk of your career solving not what’s now in supply chain design. What’s next? Give me some thoughts there, Don.

Don Hicks (42:05):

Well, there’s a lot of fear, but we’re thrilled about ai. I got to tell you, we’re getting out of the, and I’m speaking more to opt logic in the way we think about this. We’ve been in a hype cycle. We’ll go talk to people and they’ll say, oh, I don’t need to think about how to improve my network. AI is going to do it for me. How’s it going to do it for you? Well, it’s just going to pixie dust and glitter parades and unicorns. And I see an emergence of more of a practical hard edge to say, what is AI going to do? And then also, what can’t it do? Because the fact is there’s a lot of stuff AI cannot do. Uncertain decisions, decisions that you need to make where you lack data, you don’t have a good past. AI does not have context outside of its training set.

(42:48):

We’re excited about the future for humans, carbon-based units in these networks. And we see, we think there’s going to be a bunch of big productivity breakthroughs in our design and engineering tools next year. Design one year from now will not look like design has looked like for the last 25 years. Humans are going to be in the driver’s seat. But you’re going to see things where the manual tweaking of data that spending months trying to sort through things or missing data itself, missing costs for new lanes, missing warehousing costs. That data hunt is going to largely get automated away. And what you’re left with is a human and a team of humans being able to think through what ifs with more detail and more precision in radically shorter times. So when the CEO says, Hey, I’m thinking about this long-term, I’m thinking about Africa long-term. It doesn’t mean it’s a three year McKinsey style engagement. It means your design team is going to come back with real numbers and say, this is what that could look like. We’re just super thrilled about teaming up AI with the classical methods. We think those classical simulation and optimization methods are going to be around for a long time. But you team it up with AI and you get something really, really new, which is not magical. Just better.

Scott Luton (44:02):

Don. I love it. And I think I speak for carbon based units everywhere, Cbus. I’m excited. I’m excited. Marty, what’d you hear there?

Marty Parker (44:09):

Yeah, I talk about it in my video today on LinkedIn that great leaders want to learn the technology, learn how to apply it, but it’s humans as Don points out that are actually applying it in real life to make decisions. All kinds of stupid stuff is going to go away. Like taking meeting minutes in a meeting. That’s just stupid stuff that nobody did before. And so meetings were the most inefficient thing on earth now they’re going to be efficient and we’re going to be able as humans to make better decisions in them and actually free up time. So I agree. I think the AI is going to free up our non-value added time, the ones that really learn to leverage it so that we can focus in, just like you said earlier, Scott, to work on the business and not just be tied up in the business all the time.

Scott Luton (44:56):

Amen. Hey, sweat the AI assets, right? You’ve heard a lot about that. That’s become a cliche I think the last couple of years. But it’s true cliche for a reason. Lets make the machines do what machines do best and make our days easier as these carbon base units. Cbus. Alright, so Don, we’re not going to have time in full to talk about this big quote here I got from your address, but just speak to it really quick. Amateurs talk strategy professionals talk about culture, your thoughts really quick, Don?

Don Hicks (45:24):

Yeah, the short version here, it’s a known thing in military strategy. They talk about amateurs discuss battlefield strategies and then the real professional study, the logistics that make those battles and wars won or lost. For me, I’m in the software and the tech business and I don’t want to talk about technology. The winners and the best companies get determined by the culture of how you get people to work together better. Are you aligned around the right values? Does everybody know what the mission is? Are they bought in? Guys? AI doesn’t change any of that stuff. It is back to the fundamentals. Humans working together, aligned to do real value and then everything else is negotiable. So AI is changing an awful lot of stuff and these are things that will not change and don’t change. So real professionals in technology, we focus on culture serving customers, getting our employees and our team members to treat each other well and get the best out of each other. Same game.

Scott Luton (46:17):

I love that. Especially that last one, that last element. Folks, you can learn more, take a deep dive into his address. I think it’s an intriguing and inspirational address, why we do what we do a CEO’s take on purpose, design and real impact. Check it out. We’re going to drop the link right there in the chat. Alright, so I’m going to get to your quick take on some of the cool things you’re doing in Opt Logic. We’re going to get Marty’s pad a key takeaway from today’s discussion. We’re going to make sure folks know how to connect with you both. It’s going to be a fast and furious finish. But Marty, Don rather, you’ve been on the Move award-winning team in Opti Logic. What are you most excited about in terms of what you’re doing today?

Don Hicks (46:51):

Well, breakthroughs that used to take years are taking quarters and months. I’ve never seen the pace of change be what it is right now. And I was doing this back when Al Gore invented the internet. I got to ride that all the way through. And I think people tend to wildly overestimate the effect of these technologies in the short term, but underestimate the technologies in the long term. This year you’re going to see just a whole bunch of changes to a field that’s important and has needed some acceleration. So I know what’s in our laboratories and I know what’s coming on out. I’m grateful that we’ve got new entrants in the supply chain design and planning space. It needed a shakeup. And we’re going to move beyond the hype in 2026 to combine great new technology with these old school principles and the companies that are well run that are also leveraging ai. It’s going to be a different ball game a year from now.

Scott Luton (47:44):

Love it. Getting past the hype right now and in 2026, Don. I love it. Marty, I’m going to get your take here in just a second, but let’s make sure folks know how to connect with Don Hicks and the logic team. Don, how can folks track you down?

Don Hicks (47:58):

Yeah, look, I’m pretty easy to find, obviously hit us up, opt logic.com, the main website. We offer all of our technology freely available for people to try it and explore it because we think transparency is really important. If you got nothing to hide, don’t hide anything. You can find me on LinkedIn, connect with me there. I give out my email pretty quick and easy. So don@optlogic.com if you want to send me a hate note or a love note. If you’re a Navy guy and you want to gloat or mope, hit me up.

Scott Luton (48:26):

Awesome, I love it. He’s throwing down the challenge folks. He’s throwing down the challenge one. Don Hicks, our founder and CEO with Opti Logic, but Don, don’t go anywhere just yet. I’m going to coin check you in a second. I’ve got some of my challenge coins right behind me. I owe Don Hicks a Diet Coke, but I’m me. Alright, so Marty, your key takeaway, and you’ve got, this is a tough question because Don has given us a ton, but what’s one of your patented key takeaways from today’s discussion here on the Buzz Marty?

Marty Parker (48:54):

So throughout the whole discussion, we’ve been talking about all these externalities that are outside of our control, like tariffs and Halloween candy going down and all kinds of stuff. But what we learned is that there are all kinds of things actually in our control, how we make decisions, how we create culture, how we learn these new technologies, how we find great partners like logic that are doing a lot of the heavy lifting. So I think we need to control our own destinies, think of our own locust of control and focus on that and focus less on worrying about all the things outside of us that we just really can’t do much about.

Scott Luton (49:31):

Well said, Marty and I would add to that, and there’s exciting new ways that we can bring more things into our realm of control that we hadn’t even thought about yet just yet. And all of that helps us work on the business and set it in the business, right? We got to take a breath and work on improving the ecosystem, but I’m preaching to the choir. We got a smartest audience off global supply chain, Don and Marty. Oh man. A lot of good stuff here today. Now Don, I did mention I was going to coin check you, and this is one of my favorite recent coins. This comes from my friends at McConnell Air Force Base where I was stationed, I dunno if y’all can see that or not, maybe not. But it says, see pull the chs maintenance rocks. And that comes from a knuckle buster event. They hold once a year to celebrate the incredible maintenance professionals that keep fleets moving, especially the Air Force aircraft moving every hour of the day. So, Don, do you have your challenge coin or do you owe me a Diet Coke?

Don Hicks (50:23):

Oh man, I think I owe you a Diet Coke. I have one coin.

Scott Luton (50:27):

Oh, okay. Well now if you’ve got one, then

Don Hicks (50:30):

I got a challenge coin.

Scott Luton (50:31):

Okay, well then I’m going to owe you my friend. There you go. All right. You proved that you,

Don Hicks (50:36):

This is a coin from the Reign of Alexander the Greats. That is Alexander wearing his lion’s hat. This is my little mini collection here. So here he is on his throne. And even then, logistics were important. Alexander was a great logistics general

Scott Luton (50:50):

Man. We need a second hour. Marty and Don, we talked about Alexander to Greats logistics and his network design. Absolutely save that for another day. Save that for another day. You can connect with Marty on LinkedIn. You can connect with Don on LinkedIn. We encourage to learn more about Opti Logic. They’re doing some really cool things. And as you heard from Don, they’re getting past the hype, not just next year. They’re getting past the hype right now. We need a lot more of that. You can also make sure you connect with Marty and Fallen for all these great videos he dropped on Leadership Supply Chain and More every day. As we wrap here on a supersized edition of The Buzz, I want to thank Don Hicks, founder and CEO at Opti Logic. Don, thank you so much,

Don Hicks (51:30):

Scott. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Scott Luton (51:32):

You bet. To my esteem. Co-host, the one and only Marty Park at Marty. Great to have you here today. Thrilled to be here. As always, Scott, big thanks to Amanda and Tricia behind the scenes, helping make production happen every day. Most importantly, big thanks to our global audience for being here. Enjoyed your comments and questions. I know we couldn’t hit all of them, but no worry. We’ll be back next Monday. Actually, we’re going to be back every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of your week. So hope you enjoyed the show, but you got homework and Don and Marty gave us a lot. Take one thing you heard here today from Don Hicks and Marty Parker. One thing, put it into practice. Share it with your team. Do something with it. D’s not words. That’s how we’re going to keep changing global supply chain. And with that said, on behalf of the entire team here at Supply Chain now, Scott Luden challenging. You do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed, and we’ll see you next time. Right back here on Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (52:16):

Join the supply chain now community. For more supply chain perspectives, news and innovation, check out supply chain now.com. Subscribe to Supply Chain now on YouTube and follow and listen to Supply chain now wherever you get your podcasts.