“How can we connect all these supply chains and suppliers with the needs of the businesses in a different way? Until procurement can do that, we’re only going to be asked to deliver cost savings, not facilitate value creation.” – Philip Ideson, Founder and Managing Director, Art of Procurement

“Information about the company’s risk appetite has to be democratized. It’s not something you keep in the back office between the CEO, the CPO, and the CFO. It needs to be truly connective and it needs to be contextualized for each and every part of the organization.” – Koray Kose, Senior Director of Supply Chain Research, Gartner

These days, it seems like everyone is in the risk business. From high consumer expectations to the challenging final mile, and from ships stuck sideways in far away canals to an uncertain global economy, all business decisions come with elevated risk. But – and this is a BIG BUT – the riskiest move of all is giving in to the fear.These days, it seems like everyone is in the risk business. From high consumer expectations to the challenging final mile, and from ships stuck sideways in far away canals to an uncertain global economy, all business decisions come with elevated risk. But – and this is a BIG BUT – the riskiest move of all is giving in to the fear.

Risk may ‘live’ in the supply chain, but as the key relationship-holder with thousands of first tier suppliers, procurement is often in the driver’s seat when it comes time to better understand the risks currently facing the enterprise and what can be done today and in the future to address them better than the competition. Historically, procurement has been a highly risk-averse function, but industry leaders now realize that their ability to impact the top and bottom lines of the company may only be constrained by their willingness to take strategic, qualified risks.

In this episode of Dial P for Procurement, Koray Kose, Senior Director of Supply Chain Research at Gartner, and Philip Ideson, Founder and Managing Director of Art of Procurement, join Co-hosts Kelly Barner and Scott Luton to engage in a risk aware but entirely unafraid discussion of supply chain risk and procurement’s role in addressing it:

– What is the real difference between agility and resilience and what can procurement do to strengthen both?

– The importance of having discussions about the enterprise’ appetite for risk and them communicating that information out into the company so that everyone knows how it should affect their work and decisions.

– How procurement can ensure that the ‘pendulum swing’ between low and high risk tolerance does not cause them to put an onerous amount of mitigation bureaucracy in place through processes and technologies.

Intro/Outro (00:00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now. Hey,

Scott Luton (00:00:32):

Good afternoon, Scott Luton and Kelly Barner on today’s live stream here at supply chain. Now Dial P for procurement Kelly, how are you doing

Kelly Barner (00:00:40):

Dial P? I am doing great and ready to go.

Scott Luton (00:00:44):

We are too well. You know, we’ve had a ton of response from the marketplace, a ton of feedback in, uh, these Dial P livestream series, in fact, so much. So Kelly Barner is in demand so much so that, uh, we’ve got some upcoming video podcasts with procurement leaders around the world, right?

Kelly Barner (00:01:02):

Absolutely do. And I think we’re going to bring some very unique perspectives, not only on global business culture, but also I know procurement procurement procurement all the time, but there’s segments within procurement. So we’re going to get into public sector procurement. We’re going to slice and dice a little bit to keep it interesting for everybody

Scott Luton (00:01:21):

Agreed. And, but as always is driven by great partnerships and great leaders that jump on as our guests and share their content. We’ve got both today. So, uh, first programming note here, of course, this series is presented jointly with our wonderful friends over at Buyers Meeting Point. We appreciate that partnership and relationship with your team Kelly. And secondly, we’ve got two incredible guests here today. One one’s a dear old friend and one is a dear new friend. And so stay tuned for a conversation all about risk. Can we talk enough about risk in this soon to be post pandemic environment? It kinda depends on where you are in the world. I imagine some folks feel squarely in post pandemic, uh, land others are fighting to get there, but risk, risk risk is that right, Kelly

Kelly Barner (00:02:07):

All the time. And we’re going to really challenge ourselves and our two guests today to obviously talk about the realities of risk, but to be as positive and opportunistic about it as possible, because I think that’s a real challenge, but it’s a huge opportunity for anybody who can seize it.

Scott Luton (00:02:22):

Excellent point now, um, a couple of quick programming notes, cause I think you’re going to share a couple of key takeaways from a big event that y’all have recently mastermind live the spring version, but really quick, Hey, if you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to find supply chain now and art of procurement, wherever you get your podcasts from great episodes there, subscribe. So you don’t miss a single thing and we’ll bring in our guests here momentarily, but, uh, Kelly, before we do, you gotta, you gotta give up the goods. What are some key takeaways from that, uh, popular event y’all hosted? Uh, was it last week already caught, feels like this week.

Kelly Barner (00:02:55):

It was last week. I know. Well, when you live it it’s sort of like you, we did it for the whole two days. It was April 13th and 14th and we got to the end and you are so thrilled at how well it went, but you’re also your gas tank is absolutely empty. Um, so our procurement mastermind live spring. We had hundreds of highly engaged procurement practitioners, professionals, consultants, everybody from the community coming together to discuss really the urgency of the present moment. Um, and yet even with that idea of urgency, it stayed very positive. It was growth oriented and we heard some really fascinating things. I think some of what really stands out for Maine is we had an economist from Lloyd’s bank in London and he was talking to us about maybe some of the recovery conditions we’re going to see. And he actually cautioned when you start to see really good news, if you think you’re entering sort of a boom time level of growth, be very careful because it could be short-term.

Kelly Barner (00:03:54):

So obviously we want to seize that opportunity without actually restructuring for it. Um, we also had some opportunities about what sorts of expertise need to exist within the company versus what you should actually pull from experts out in the market that lives something 24, seven, three 65, some very detailed conversations there as well. And I know we’ll get into some of that once we bring the guests in, but it was we’re in a challenging time and we’re being real about it. But as my Griswold recently said on supply chain, now this is a time when a ton is being asked of procurement organizations, leaders, and professionals, and we have to step up a ton is being looked for from us right now.

Scott Luton (00:04:37):

Excellent. And that I would add to that, uh, what Greg white, my dear friend and typical cohost, uh, joined us on the bus on Monday. He said, Hey, supply chain, uh, has asked in the mandate for a seat at the table. You gotta be careful what you ask for because now the chips are down and you got to deliver. And that was a, so both of those points, I appreciate you sharing what Mike had shared. Okay. So a ton of good stuff in store, y’all stay tuned. We’re going to say hello to a few folks that are tuned in really across, uh, across our globe here. Every shrinking globe nevus is back, uh, via LinkedIn from India. Thank you for joining us. SRE nevus, look forward to your input today. Peter bullae from Canada is with us once again, a steady Eddie right there, and looking forward to getting an update on, on those renovations.

Scott Luton (00:05:22):

Peter, I see Ahmad is tuned in via LinkedIn. Hello from Saudi Arabia. Welcome in Amman. Great to have you Cavon is back what a great new timer out. Well, Hey, that goes to clay and Bradley put that together, Kayvon, and we’re referring to that music as kind of our Yani landscape music, putting everybody at peace. So great to have you Cavon hadn’t forgotten the new abnormal your, your ears have been burning probably this morning as I was using that term. Uh, let’s see, Mervyn is tuned in via Dublin. Great to see you here. Mervin has always to NUSEA from Chattanooga, a lot of things, a lot of good things going on in Chattanooga. Great to see you here. Hopefully I got your name, right? If you didn’t please correct me. Helene tuned in from France via LinkedIn. Great to see you.

Kelly Barner (00:06:07):

It’s an international audience we have today. This is amazing.

Scott Luton (00:06:10):

Quiet one. Well, we’ve got these two big guests and the one only Kelly Barner. So I would expect it, uh, and as always standard. Disclaimer, if I get your name wrong as a shout out, please shoot us a note. Uh, I can be, uh, a bit slow, slow learner. Sometimes David is with it’s great to see a David Todd rains. The Rainmaker is tuned in with us as always via LinkedIn. Great to have Todd with us, Peter stung Alon and Peter hope. This is okay. The sustainability Viking is what Greg white has, has termed you after. Y’all’s great interview on tequila sunrise. So great to see here as well. Uh, Larry is with us. Hey, great to see you. And it looks like they play a good job. Clay reaching out personal service, making it all right. Uh, Kyle is with us via freight, uh, via LinkedIn, but also Kyle with the freight plus putting out great content.

Scott Luton (00:07:01):

And finally, as Aaliyah as Leah looking forward to your point of view is always so you’re, you’re creating a standard for yourself. So I hope you’re, you’re ready to go on the edge of your seat and hello to everyone else that we could not get to hear. All right. Not yet. We’ll try to carve out as much time for our, uh, our folks in the cheap seats as we call, uh, call them for, to share their POV. Alright, so Kelly, are you ready? I am ready. I am ready to, so let’s welcome in our two distinguished guests here today, we have Koray Kose senior director of supply chain research from Gartner and Philip Ideson founder and managing director of art of procurement. Hey, good afternoon, gentlemen. How are we doing? Good. Thank you, Scott. Thanks for inviting us and thank you, Kelly. Hi guys. Well, thank you. Hello everyone. Great to have you absolutely great to have you. So Kelly, we’re going to have a good time as we, as we kind of warm things up before we get to the heavy lifting with, with both of you, uh, we’re going to go through our lightning round, right? Kelly,

Kelly Barner (00:08:03):

We are, and this is for anybody who has not actually participated in one of these live streams. This is the hardest part to prep and it’s the hardest part to participate in. So we’re going to let Koray and Phil cross this hurdle early on. It’s when we dig into these quirky personal questions that it’s really tricky. They can handle the supply chain stuff and the risk stuff and the procurement stuff. No problem. It’s the lightning round. That’s difficult.

Scott Luton (00:08:24):

Amen. Well said. All right, but, but it’s always tons of fun. Tons of fun. So we’re going to talk about how, Hey, risk isn’t all bad, right? Sometimes it can be a wonderful thing to experience and fight through. So speaking of and curl, I want to start with you. Can you share a time in your journey where you took maybe a big personal risk, but it paid off in spades? I can think of only what got me into procurement and supply chain, of course, in this context, which was, uh, at my time

Koray Kose (00:08:56):

At Fox bang, I was offered an opportunity to work very closely with the back then and almost until now, CPO, uh, Francisco Garcia, sons, uh, who gave me an opportunity to go to Mexico, which I haven’t really heard about much back then. I did not speak any Spanish whatsoever and, and they sat short go, you know, um, we’ll take care of you, of course. Right? So, uh, I made my way to Mexico and, um, spent some time there learned the language, learned my means to get around in a different culture, in a different business environment and really dive deeper into the complexities of the global supply chain. Now that that was, you know, it was it a real risk for me personally, it felt awful, right? So totally outside of my comfort zone now, you know, some of the more, uh, maybe a suspicious comments could be like, wait a moment.

Koray Kose (00:09:50):

You went there with. So I’m what could happen. Right. You know, for me personally, that was not even in the picture. It wasn’t really getting on a plane, like completely off the grid from Europe and go into a place where I had really no means of understanding the people. No understanding about the culture. I mean, call me ignorant at that point in time, of course, right. To read up on it as quick as possible, but it’s not comparable to what you live through when you really go that much out of your comfort zone. I would recommend that everyone either way. Um, and yeah, that’s kind of like, you know, stick with me through, well, nowadays I would talk to you about supply chain. So, uh, I have to thank supply chain for that opportunity, but I was scared. Well, I appreciate that transparency and there’s so much good stuff there, what you shared.

Scott Luton (00:10:39):

And I would just add all consumers and all professionals. There’s a lot of gratitude, uh, that should be extended to the global supply chain profession. So, and, you know, outside of our comfort zone is where so many gains can be made. Right. And, and whether that’s personal or professional, uh, whether it related to some of the change that we’re all working hard to, to, to lead and the drive really in supply chain and beyond. So I love what I love, how you’re starting this lightning round. It’s not so windy around here today, Kara. Okay. Phil, same question. You were, where’s the, where’s a personal moment where you’ve benefited from taking some risks.

Philip Ideson (00:11:13):

Yeah. You know, I’m actually glad you asked Curry first. And I have a similar experience in terms of, I moved to India, um, and lived in India for a year, a similar kind of experience where, um, it helped me really. I went over there to lead a team in a shared services organization for procurement. And that opened the world for me of outsourcing about tasking, um, and kind of the world of talent that exists beyond, um, the borders that we have, we know within our own country that sometimes we don’t see, unless you go and experience other cultures, um, and have those other experiences. But, you know, as a thinking about a risk that I took, um, actually starting the podcast, I think we have to procurement podcast. It’s funny, you know, when I, uh, I left the corporate world, I was, um, you know, fortunate to be with big employers and decided I was going to set my own business.

Philip Ideson (00:11:58):

So, but I was really scared. Like I was always the person at the back of the conference room rather than the friends of it. Um, but I knew that I had to start getting in front of people and getting folks to know who I was and hopefully I can trust me. Um, and I was scared, crazy of putting myself out there for a podcast, but I always believe in putting yourself in uncomfortable situations as a way of learning. So it didn’t have a clue what I was doing. Didn’t know if anyone was ever going to listen, you know, and five and a half years later, where 400 episodes in, and it’s been a real kind of it’s, it’s changed my life and the opportunities that I’ve had love that love that so much. Uh, so you mentioned India, we got to say a quick shout out to Vinaya who is tuned in via LinkedIn from India.

Philip Ideson (00:12:37):

And, uh, I was talking this morning with Daria Patel who is also living in India is about to move to Atlanta. And we, you know, he was, he was filling me in and teaching me all about cricket. And we talked about the Bangalore role challengers. Who’s leading the Indian premier league right now. So never heard, uh, uh, let’s see, protect the stumps, you know, some other phrases that hidden, hidden the six. I was. So I’m behind the curve on learning all about this fascinating sport. So I could spend the next hour teaching about cricket and get a really quick anecdote. One of the things that I did while I was there is we created a side deck of teaching cricket to Americans as a culture, or as a way to the bridge, kind of the cultures his father played for the Detroit tigers in the, uh, the 1968, uh, world series winning team.

Philip Ideson (00:13:26):

So they had baseball in his heritage. So it was like comparing cricket and baseball as a way to, uh, um, to help, like I say, bridge the kind of cultural divide, if you will. I love it. You gotta, we gotta constantly in this global, uh, society global business where we live in, look for those, you know, blessed be the ties that bind for sure. So I love that Phil. Okay. Second and final question for the lightning round KRI. What’s the first thing you plan to do when we finally get back to some version of the normal?

Koray Kose (00:13:55):

All right. I would, I would probably start with something very simple and maybe just get together with friends and family in your backyard without, you know, distancing yourself, you know, with one, two beers, you know, you usually are getting closer to your friends and you, you know, punch him or hug him or whatever is happening in, you know, the dynamics in your backyard, right. Uh, without doing that without, you know, having the concern, Oh my God. And my feverish and my coughing, you know, what’s going on. And, um, I think that will be a really nice kickoff. And then I have a list that’s endless, you know, uh, I think I would start with the small things that can just be so important to them.

Philip Ideson (00:14:38):

Wonderful. I love that. Uh, karate, same question for you, Phil. Yeah. I think getting on an airplane and going back to England, um, you know, see family, watch some football, um, you know, all the things that we’ve missed over the, uh, the 18 months I have my plane

Koray Kose (00:14:52):

Ticket. So fingers crossed that this time it doesn’t get canceled. Awesome. We also can catch an Oasis concert together. Right. Phil, I guess it’s just no Gallagher. All right. So hopefully there’s a few ways as fans out there in the cheap seats. Okay. Kelly, where are we going from, from here?

Kelly Barner (00:15:11):

We’re going to start gradually making the move towards procurement supply chain. Um, I cry. I actually, I should have known this. I didn’t realize you worked for Volkswagen. So automotive is something that you would feel have in common. Uh, but I do know you’ve worked in a lot of different verticals and industries. When you think back through all of those experiences, what are the things that seem to be common? And what did you find were the things that tended to vary by industry?

Koray Kose (00:15:37):

All right. So what I see very common is just the positioning of supply chain, procurement and sourcing in the context of managing basically everything through right. And having a many hats in different meetings that you just have to flip almost like on an ad hoc comment. And at that same point in time, you need to watch out for your constituents to not upset anyone because your relationships are really the main driver for your success. And, um, I heard it the hard way, because for me, it was like, Hey, you know, we manage all the funding and the funnel through basically the value generation process of a company. So why is nobody listening to me and just doing, and not all the time questioning us, uh, or the opposite actually, why are they all the time questioning us? So, um, being in that kind of a seat with that many, I think connections towards everything, but being looked at as a cost center, as a support function, as a group, which may report to the most craziest of organizational structures, right.

Koray Kose (00:16:46):

I reported once into legal, once into finance, once into, you know, supply chain logistics and I mean all sorts of different things. Um, I think that’s very common when it comes to the positioning power though. I can see industries that really, I would say appreciate the ability to drive value through supply chain more than else in other industries. And I think one of the, maybe the, the worst things happened to me is that I started in automotive because that’s the place where procurement has the seat in, uh, in the house. It’s a seat holder, you know, it’s not just the CEO and then it’s the CPO and not a CFO or a CMO or so that’s all irrelevant. And not really, but, you know, I don’t wanna upset anybody out there, but there is really the center of power supply chain, which is specifically in procurement and in automotive. So I got that into my habits very early and had to unlearn the fact that it’s not like that in a lot of, but,

Philip Ideson (00:17:50):

Uh, that’s unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you, how you look at things, but I think it is in my opinion, really a mustache. And, um, it’s unfortunate. Some industry struggle to see the value in that. When we think about organizations where there is not much direct, but a lot of indirect procurement and sourcing, you see sourcing to really turn into sort of, you know, a back office function, which a lot of companies or functions struggled to keep, you know, um, their voice heard. So I think there is a differentiation, um, that we can see in different industries. The same thing applies. You’ve, can’t be in the seat that has a lot of power without caring about your relationships and kind of bringing everybody on the journey as hard as it sounds,

Kelly Barner (00:18:36):

Let me then come to you because I know you and I have had a lot of conversations about how being in procurement in automotive is very unique and is different than being in procurement in a lot of other industries. Anything that you wanted to add to what Kariah shared specifically about that?

Philip Ideson (00:18:51):

Yeah, it’s really interesting. So my background was starting with Ford motor company and then with the OEMs that were attached to the automotive industry. So you do go there and procurements are purchasing as a typical lays within those companies is the center of the world. You know, I then moved out to, um, to pharmaceutical, to, uh, Pfizer and, you know, it’s kind of chalk and cheese when you go pharma and automotive in terms of the role of procurement, sorry, it was, you know, 15 years ago when I made that role. But you know, when you think about risk, risk in automotive is while it’s not, you know, priority number one, because price number one is how can I get one more sense of reduction, you know, out of my, um, my supply is because my margins are so thin, but it’s definitely number two. Uh, you know, you’re looking at quality delivery risk all as kind of, uh, really important.

Philip Ideson (00:19:36):

And so you have that lens and everything you do when you step out of automotive. You know, I’ve worked in, uh, consumer products and financial services and technology, and, you know, seen a lot of different industries. I found that most of those other industries, the importance of risk is defined by the regulator as opposed to the company itself. Um, so there are a few companies who really go above and beyond kind of what the regulatory requirements are for risk and their industry. And I think that’s a big miss for us as procurement professionals to take some of the best practices that you see within an automotive business are either within financial services because of how heavily it’s regulated and apply those to some non manufacturing, nonfinancial services businesses. That’s an opportunity for us, I think. So

Scott Luton (00:20:18):

I’m going to pose a couple of quick comments here, but really quick in a broad generalization, what do we, what do we have agreement here? I think automotive industry, perhaps in the transform more than just about any other industry over the next, maybe even three or four years, certainly, you know, six or seven years, even there’s a ton of best practices that both of you are speaking to. And that even a Randy Smith says, Hey Kara, absolutely. So many industries would benefit from the automotive procurement structure. Still the industry is, is transforming as we speak. Uh, would you all agree with that? Generally? We could probably do a whole lab, I would say, as an industry. Yes. Unfortunately, some industry players won’t get the message yet because I can see some, you know, disruption happening through the technology switch and the pace of it that some of the bigger players just caught up in the middle because, you know, well, they have the power, they don’t seem to sense what’s going on in the markets.

Scott Luton (00:21:13):

Sometimes it seems like. So having folks who are equipped with hammers, a lot of those automotive executives, or, you know, they’re used to hammering, you know, for, for most of the old fashioned, you know, kind of traditional way of doing business. So, so sorry, I didn’t mean to, um, uh, take us down a, um, a no comment there. Maybe I don’t want to, you know, fall into your comments, but research shows from our site that the industry that showed us the least collaborative approach and, uh, the benefits out of, uh, you know, supplier relationships is automotive. That is an excellent point. Excellent. Thank you very much for sharing. I think that, uh, that is deserving of a conversation of itself and I bet you and Phil could, could have exchange war stories here. Todd reign says having spent my career in automotive, it’s unique to hear someone that escaped, escaped our world.

Scott Luton (00:22:07):

I love that. And then going back to, as Leah said, Hey, Kara, I hear you saying professional and social agility as one form of intelligence and tool critical tool to have in our tool belt. Great call out there. Okay. So Kelly, let’s see here. All right. Let me, let me, let me put a period on this automotive, uh, conversation Randy says in his consulting experience, automotive is always at least five to seven years in front of other industries. Okay. We’ve got we, we take all viewpoints here. Okay. So Kelly, where are we going to next?

Kelly Barner (00:22:39):

We’re actually going to take our cue from AZA. Leah, thank you for that. And we’re going to stay on this topic of agility and resilience. Um, so Kara logistics magazine recently quoted you in an article is saying that 90% of organizations plan to invest money and time to make their supply chains more resilient over the next two years. What form do you expect that resilience to take? So if we’re sitting on the outside of these companies, what should we be? Maybe looking for a symptoms of that strengthened resilience.

Scott Luton (00:23:11):

But before I get into that, maybe that’s, I want everybody to hear this because they are mixing up resilience and agility very often. So just shortly put agility is the ability to maneuver rather quickly seeing something happening and trying to get out of its way or utilizing the event for your benefits. That’s agility, meaning like your organization is flexible. Your technologies are very sensible to changes and sensitive to changes. They are helping in augmenting your capabilities so you can act not react. So that’s agility. When we talk about resilience, it’s like, you cannot always, you know, act

Koray Kose (00:23:46):

In an event because some events are unknown, not known events, right? Black Swan events, upstairs, a pandemic coming. So, um, when you look at that, then you need resilience. That’s like absorbing a shock, right? Like you get the hit, but you just continue. Right? And that’s where things are really important and more fundamental. So structural changes require resilience to get through them. Uh, uncertain, sudden events require agility to renew and maybe even reduce the impact that you would have felt otherwise. So in combination, that’s becoming a true competitive advantage. So when you look at the investment requirements to get there, that can take a lot of different shapes. We’re talking about six to seven different drivers for resilience and agility. One of that of course is understanding who you’re working with. Network visibility in some industries is horrifically low, even though regulations and governance requirements are very high.

Koray Kose (00:24:42):

So some of it is interpreted in some parts of the means of the way you work, right? So the, you know, you have payments going to the, to the right accounts. That’s, you know, visibility, but in supply chain, you may not even know the supplier who you just paid ad hoc. So visibility is really the means to be more aware of what’s going on and then to put actions in place to diversify your supply base, to increase your collaborations, to look into your contracts, look at some resiliency factors in your contract to even have SLS defined, right? Maybe you started a small contract and it became a monster after years. We see that all the time, those nice sow that are just amended all the time, right? And suddenly you have like a gazillion different things that are even in itself, not cohesive. So that’s one, right?

Koray Kose (00:25:27):

And then there’s another one. Are there any incentives to get more resilient? Uh, Phillips just said, you know, cost efficiency drivers in automotive, let’s walk away from automobile in any industry. Cost efficiency is usually the optimization of one variable cost. Uh, sometimes if you’re lucky quality, right, but that’s the end. Um, so cost efficiency is out cost effectiveness is in. So can you convince a value generation process that keeps all factors in balance offers a product that areas of willingness to pay with with a good margin for your clients, and then move on and become a competitive leader in a space. And now I’m not avoiding your question, but there are different means companies invest, but groundbreaking is people, processes and technology. And for every company, it’s a variety of it. So no company has just the resilience it’s in pockets. You may have areas of low resilience with linear supply chains, which automotive has. And others also have like pharma has linear supply chains, right? Why do you do that? I don’t wrap

Koray Kose (00:26:34):

My head around. And then others, uh,

Koray Kose (00:26:36):

Other areas have a high resilience and they are resilient excuses. Why a linear supply chain should be more competitive. There is zero evidence that it is more competitive. Meaning single source is I call it a management mistake quite honestly. And sole source is a design mistake. Both are mistakes. It’s a relationship that is not balanced. It’s toxic in the longterm. It’s, non-competitive in the cost of the supply chain. And it’s absolutely zero resilient.

Kelly Barner (00:27:05):

No, it’s interesting. When we, when I think about that, right, there’s clearly a core philosophy that you have about supply chains. I love your point about resilience being different than agility. Yes, totally agree with you Kayvon. That cost is still the most crucial objective. And yet it’s maybe the most crucial among many that are very close seconds. Um, so feel for just a second, before we move on to actually talk about risk,

Koray Kose (00:27:32):

We also don’t want to be provocative. I don’t want to be provocative, but I agree. That’s right. I’d put up either, right? That’s the backyard party, right? I was talking no, because think about it again, like it has to be value is the crucial part of it. If you say cost, then you’re back to cost efficiency to one variable game, and then you are non resilient. I agree that the outside world, we have to recognize that a lot of people run around and say, cost is really the, so you have to work on explaining and time. And again, proving the point. That value is the most important thing. Um,

Kelly Barner (00:28:11):

But measuring that value, right? This is where we get into, into a, a real challenge. And so Phil, when we think about the philosophy of balancing the value that we need to create with obviously the cost savings we need to deliver, we’ve had a lot of conversation to daughter procurement about allowing procurement to align with what the business really needs. So it’s not necessarily, you know, how do I do agility? How do I do resilience? There needs to be a mindset that goes along with them. What would you say around, and this is for you, Jen Griffis, what would you say around the mindset that we all need to have that we talked about so much at mastermind last spring, around the way that we think allowing us to both align with the business and emphasize that agility and value over just straight cost savings.

Philip Ideson (00:29:02):

Now, I would say, first of all, I completely agree with Caray. Like we were on a mission to try and help procurement think differently about the impact that they can have on the business that goes beyond the cost savings. Um, and it, it has a value combination, a value conversation, but that’s a, it takes time to get to that. Uh, and it’s obviously very specific on the organization. The most important thing you said there is about alignment. What truly is important to the business? What do they need to succeed in their markets? How can we best connect supply markets and supply chains with that need, it might be margin improvement. It could be, uh, quality. It could be a service innovation you don’t really know until have the conversation. Um, my mindset perspective, I think it’s more internal to procurement to start with than it is external of the folks outside of procurement.

Philip Ideson (00:29:51):

Because one, we as procurement professionals think about ourselves and our profession as being cost. First. We’re always going to look at that as the, the tactics and the strategies that we use of what we think of how we measure ourself worth essentially to our organization, regardless of how we measured, um, on a scorecard to the executives, but also because so many executives we’ve, we’ve we’ve we built the profession of procurements on this notion that the ROI should only be measured on cost savings. And so you have a CFO in a conversation with a CFO. We’ve told that CFO for the last 20 years, give me this money to professionalize procurement, because I’m going to return X dollars in savings to you or X pounds or X euros or whatever that number is. So their only perception of what procurement can do for them is cost savings because that’s all we’ve ever told them we can do.

Philip Ideson (00:30:41):

So I think that’s the conversation that we have to have with our executives is like, how can we connect all these supply chains and suppliers with the needs of the businesses in a different way than just thinking about costs, because until we do that, that’s all we’re going to be asked to do. And you kind of painted in this box. And I think that’s really critical in terms of getting out and create doing all these wonderful things we can from value creation. That goes beyond what we do from a day-to-day, which has always get painted into this cost savings box,

Scott Luton (00:31:08):

Got to elevate the conversation, right? Gotta elevate it. You gotta fight, fight, fight together that pigeonhole and elevate the craft of cricket.

Philip Ideson (00:31:17):

It’s our personal responsibility, you know, so often I see, so we did a survey in our event last year in October, and we said, what’s the number one challenge that procurement leaders are facing right now. Um, and we had, you know, I think five, 600 responses from that. And the number one thing that came up, I was hoping it would be, you know, we don’t have enough data. We don’t have the expertise that we need. Um, we, you know, need help from a time perspective. No, the number one reason that came up was the perception of procurement. So we’re basically saying, nobody knows what we do, and that’s the biggest challenge to what we do. I’m looking at that as being an external problem, that people don’t understand this rather than an internal problem that it’s on us to help educate and to show with doing and through results of what the art of the possible is. Um, and that priority focus.

Scott Luton (00:32:02):

Excellent point just to interject, I think, um, just like the last 18 months or so as has shaped a global supply chain, certainly has shaped the view and pers, um, perception of, uh, logistics, uh, retail, uh, it’s transformed and made, you know, as much as, you know, say 10 years ago, lean was on tip a very manufacturing tongue. Now it’s customer experience, right? That the pandemics had so much, so much of a big impact. I would add procurement to that list for sure. And, and it’s, it’s created, I think generally speaking again, a different perception, uh, of forward

Philip Ideson (00:32:40):

Thinking leaders of how procurement real procurement practitioners can be strategic and can, you know, go back to add real meaningful value in the overall resilience equation. If the, if, if, if everyone, if anyone’s filled that down to a specific equation just yet. So I don’t want to take us, uh, Kelly I’m bad today. I must have not had enough coffee. I’m going right. And I’m going left, but there’s so much to talk about. So Kelly, what are we talking about next?

Kelly Barner (00:33:05):

So next we really are going to take on that risk head-on and one of the things staying on the same of perception, I think that’s the perfect word. So there is the level of risk, and then there’s the way procurement perceives the risks. There’s the way finance perceives the risks. There’s the way supply chain perceives the risk. And there’s the way the C-suite perceives the risks. So, you know, when you go to the doctor, they typically have hanging in the room that little rainbow set of faces all the way from like ice cream cone to hit in the head with a hammer, you know, think about that range of emotions. And, and Phil, let me start with you on this. Where do you think most procurement leaders and most executives in general are today around their perception of risk and how it actually makes them feel sort of emotionally?

Philip Ideson (00:33:52):

Yeah, I think that, uh, I think it’s probably something that more than ever keeps up both of those, um, different, um, sets of people. It keeps them up at night more than before. I think it probably worries a procurement person more than it really is. Whereas an executive perhaps finance, uh, is an exception to that. I do feel like risk has always been an area where, uh, again, outside of automotive industry where it’s kind of understood, uh, in more general business risk is an area that’s not truly understood are seen as being, um, um, a particularly important issue from a business executive perspective versus a procurement perspective. So there’s always that battle of how do you help the business understand that they need to invest in risk mitigation because it’s not something that’s necessarily thought of, at least in my experience. And I think of course the pandemic changes that, but I also see like every big event, whether it’s, uh, Fukushima, whether it’s, you know, what’s going on with the pandemic, you know, the Olympics, um, Beijing brought a lot of risk events from manufacturing in China. Um, it kind of gets forgotten about easily, um, once the risk has passed and I still think that’s a worry, uh, that’s a risk in itself as we look out, you know, in the next 12, 18 months.

Kelly Barner (00:35:04):

Yeah. What do you think, correct? You, do you agree? Do you, do you get the same sense that people’s perception of risk is still at both a very high level and, and, you know, keep you up at night worrisome.

Philip Ideson (00:35:16):

I think it’s a very personal, um, thing, right? It’s defined by your experiences and your character. And likewise, an organization has that and it comes in all shapes and form from paranoid to insane and something in the middle. And when you think about that now in a different means, you’ll have a business strategy of value mission. You have

Koray Kose (00:35:38):

That, right? Given that is the, what, what are you going to do? Right? And then a lot of companies just don’t have the house. They just leave the house to everybody involved in creating the what. And if you do that, you have a mosaic puzzle, you can call it diverse, but in this sense that diversity does not help because you want to move forward organizationally. So you need something like an equal business strategy definition called risk appetite statement. Again, research shows on my end that only three out of 10 companies have anything defined on an organizational level. And if you take finance out of the equation because of financial crisis, everybody in the regulations had to add something like that into their reporting. Then it’s actually only one out of 10 companies have something like that organization. And now what do you do with the business strategy and procurement while you break down activities to support it, same thing in risk appetite, you need to break it down to what look good, looks like.

Koray Kose (00:36:34):

What is okay for you to do in supply chain to support the achievement and exceed maybe the business strategy within the means of your company that is called cascading down your risk appetite statement. And then if you look at the data there it’s one out of 10 companies generally take finance out of the equation, three out of hundreds. So what that means is everybody has their own risk hat on, and some are risk averse. Some are risk takers. Like I said, anywhere from paranoid to insane and in the middle and normal, whatever normal is, right? You have this spread. And then you may think about the people who have been, always achieving the performance targets year over year, year, over year, over year, was that, you know, within the means, is there something different that they are doing than others? And you think about cost savings as another example where you think about, you know, year over year savings concept, which I have been fighting for my last decade or so for me, it’s, if there is a production process, you have continuous learning in it and you can really improve the costing of the product, but there’s no shape or form in any economy that you will expect to pay less than 10 years for a product than you do today.

Koray Kose (00:37:40):

I don’t know if you’ve been to ice cream shop 10 years ago. Right. Did you pay really more 10 years ago than today? I mean, no, but then, right. I don’t know, but yeah, exactly. So think about that. Like, how can you achieve that? And everybody just, you know, seems to, to one shape or form, ignore that. And of course you achieve your savings if you pay more upfront. So is it like the system you acquaint yourself to, or you want to disrupt it and truly create what you need to do out of the risk posture you’re taking? Are you taking too much risk? Who benefits from that? Maybe you don’t actually in the company does. So that thing requires an alignment as, as rigid. And I th I think needs to be governed as well as a business strategy.

Scott Luton (00:38:26):

Hey, Kelly, I won’t take a quick pulse of the folks in our community and the comments I’d love to, you know, we were talking about, um, your appetite for risk

Philip Ideson (00:38:36):

Is what, uh, Kara was talking about. Let’s use a simple scale. One to 10. One means you’re a nervous Nellie, you hate risk. You avoid risk. You’re very, very conservative. And 10 is yes, God. Yes. Uh, no parachute, uh, you know, you’re out there. So if y’all especially the, you know, we’ll welcome everyone to kind of, uh, tell us where you sit in terms of risk appetite, one extremely conservative, 10. You can’t get enough risk, drop that into comments. Um, okay. So Kelly so much good stuff we’re talking about here. And we still have yet to get to some other key takeaways from the event last week. Right?

Kelly Barner (00:39:15):

Well, and one of them, I was actually thinking about this Phil while CRI was talking, one of the points that really stood out in my mind was something that Nancy nickel who works for RBS at ahold Delhaize grocery chains up and down the East coast of the U S talked about you can’t continue to put the same spend through the same sourcing process and expect different results, right? So somewhere along the way, and whether it means taking a risk or whether it just means getting a better understanding of what the business needs, we have to be willing to change something. So when you think about what procurement has the ability to do in uncertain conditions, what are the assets or the advantages or the strengths that you think we intuitively have that we should really be trying to bring to the forefront right now? Yeah,

Philip Ideson (00:40:03):

There’s probably a couple of things that comes to mind. You know, it was actually building on what Christ said about it. It has to be an enterprise that has to be an enterprise perspective on risk. And I mentioned it right at the top, you know, risk exists in businesses where it’s, it’s already known as being important. And we talked about automotive and also when in industries where it’s heavily regulated and financial services was really the one that I was alluding to. Um, I had the pleasure of being a part of a team that built out a risk, um, program for procurement while the federal reserve watched us doing it, you know, and if we didn’t do it the way we should, then everyone in that building was getting fired from the CEO on down. Um, it was during the financial crisis, uh, 12 years ago.

Philip Ideson (00:40:41):

And we were given a banking charter that we weren’t really deserving of, so we could get some bailout funds. So it was very political. So really interesting kind of environment where you see things being built, coming back to like, we see everything, we have the opportunity as procurement supply chain to see everything across the business. Um, I think that it’s our responsibility where that centralized approach to risk, and you start talking about risk statements and risk registers and the governance around that. We have the, the ability to bring that together and to have our, our organizations think a little bit more holistically about risk, as opposed to just lamenting that it doesn’t exist, which I think is often case the time or we go off and we do things and are on silo with the best intentions, but you’re fighting what Cray said about individuals and individual’s risk appetite and how much that varies just across the board.

Philip Ideson (00:41:28):

The other thing, uh, I think that we’re in a position to help our think about, but also influence. And this is something I talked about during our event last week is the notion of optionality, like, think about when you contracting, you know, when you contracting for something, you usually putting a contract in place and you might put it in place for three years or five years, and then maybe some kind of termination language in the, we don’t really think about, we don’t run. What if analysis and scenario planning to think about, you know, if something happens, how will we protect it from a contractual perspective? How will we actually have the ability to get out or to maneuver off the change? And, you know, is it worth us paying a premium to have that optionality in a contract? Um, you know, I remember, uh, um, at SVP of supply chain and procurement was telling me that, you know, whoever bears the risk pays the price, essentially. So are we prepared to pay, to have optionality? Are we going to put all that risk on our provider and therefore take the cheap price? Where are we? And that’s a conversation I think that we can have as procurement professionals with our businesses

Kelly Barner (00:42:29):

And, and correct quick follow-up for you. And then Scott, maybe we can get some kind of super informal Roundup on how everybody feels today. Um, when you think about that risk appetite, right, that exists within each company, should procurement focus on trying to read the appetite? Or is there anything in your opinion that we can do to move that needle? Even if it’s just a little,

Koray Kose (00:42:54):

I would be cautious to recommend reading something like that because you can’t really understand necessarily the means of other organizational parts and the limitations they have. And assuming that would be sort of almost, I would say arrogant for one siloed function, if it’s like that, or even one function that is non-siloed to assume I would not be able to say, Hey, Kelly, you know, I think you’re a four out of five. So I, that, that would be a strange thing a bit. So, uh,

Kelly Barner (00:43:26):

Is it asking, do we, do we bring it into the open and ask the question?

Koray Kose (00:43:31):

It is in the process of formalizing it? So everything needs to come back to formalization where the information is democratized. It’s not something you do in the back office between the CEO, the CPO and the CFO. And then they come out with something that, you know, is a hand served to parts of the organization. It needs to be truly connective and it needs to be contextualized and to each and every parts of the organization. So the risk appetite does not mean this is the language and you apply it. It means actually to every category is something else. It means to a category that deals in a concentrated market, something else, then it needs in a competitive market. And it also means something for the CFO to understand how and where to meet the funding requirements into investments, into risk management. So when you want to go about this and you don’t have a risk appetite and you are in a function like supply chain and procurement, I would certainly bring up the conversation about the need of having one.

Koray Kose (00:44:29):

And what are the benefits having one it’s aligning the organization to optimize the results and the means of our processes and we’re dealing with, and also driving technology investments. Right? So if we’re looking at an organization that is highly manual, that usually means it’s very slow. So is an industry really slow or fast. If you, in a fast moving environment, then you are taking risks, unconsciously and something may happen, and the demise is near. So you need to take risks to implement technologies and fail and implement technology center and implement technologies and maybe win, right? So, um, and, and that’s something you need to incorporate into the thinking and ingrained into your formalized approach that actually is handed to people through communication of the business strategy alongside what’s our risk posture. And that doesn’t mean you have one, you have many risk postures, it just has to align with your risk capacity, with the ability to create cash with your ability to move quickly on decisions with your ability to utilize technology, to make analytics and scenario planning, something that just happens like that. And it’s not like, Oh my God. Now this event happened. Now let’s think what scenarios could happen, because that’s what we have seen pandemic. And then companies are like, Hmm. Okay. So what scenario would happen if China locks that? Oh, okay. Okay. Now, and then suddenly Europe. Oh, what scenario happens if Europe blocks, it’s sort of a retroactive thinking and that does not align well with forward compatibility.

Scott Luton (00:45:52):

Boy, there’s so much, so much here to dissect add three more hours. No, no, it’s good. I mean, that is a compliment between you and Phil and, and Kelly’s, uh, excellent. It’s always Joe Montana, quarterbacking of the, of the conversations. A lot of good stuff to talk through here. Kayvon makes a point. That thing all three of you are speaking to it. It depends on the situation, scenario planning. That’s one of the great things about the information age we’re living in now and all the, all the technologies that are out there is helping us not make, it’s helping us make in the moment, uh, based on the current set set of circumstance decisions rather than grand policies, aren’t a fit for all things. I love that aspect about what we’re seeing. Um, also want to share that, um, Dave and talking about risk. It should not focus on the appetite, but what’s driving it.

Scott Luton (00:46:38):

That’s a great point. Come on. Also, I think, uh, I, thanks said it could have been feel the price of robustness, the price of Robusta tude. Uh, I love that call out there. And then some folks have answered our question around their risk appetite, a T-square who holds down the Fort at U2 forest about midway. Some would quantify that as a five and Cavon also a five. And even our friend behind the scenes, uh, Amanda Luton, where can I find her comment there? She says she’s probably a four to five. Scott is a much more of a risk taker than me fake news, Amanda, fake news. Can we do like taking a risk? Right. And I think being an entrepreneur where it kind of comes with the territory in many ways. Okay. But, but in the same breath, I think having wonderful people around you, it, it, it creates, uh, trust.

Philip Ideson (00:47:30):

It creates situations where you can take more risk and, and, and it leads to business opportunities. But whether we’re talking supply chain or the we’re talking digital content, or you name it, so, um, so much and so much talk about here, Catherine McCleary, Hey, Catherine,

Kelly Barner (00:47:44):

How are you doing? She says risk

Philip Ideson (00:47:46):

Postures. That is such an interesting angle on the overall planning for risk and allows for optimization. Excellent. Excellent 0.1 final one. And, and Amanda, I’m not sure Amanda and clay, who I don’t have visibility into this user, but they say great point, especially recognizing the impact of pandemics mother nature, supply and demand re complete the list of 5 million different factors have received fit. Um, okay. Oh, sorry. When they’re coming in fast and furious, I got to share, as Leah says, 7.5 on one to 10 scale. I love that as Aaliyah.

Kelly Barner (00:48:24):

Yes. Kelly. Yes. Which is incredibly important, right? Because it’s the, at the end of the day, not only is it whether or not you can rely on the folks around you, it’s each of us perceiving how everybody else perceives the situation. Um, so as we kind of wrap up and I always caution folks, we talked about this in the agreement, how incredibly fast this hour is, but I can say these hours keep getting faster as we keep having these conversations. Um, Kariah and fell. One last question for you before we go into the really easy stuff. Super quick. What is something that you would say from what we’ve all just been through around risk that we should try not to internalize for the long-term right. So some of the things we’re examined now, we’re saying, okay, maybe we didn’t have enough data. Maybe we didn’t have enough insight. Maybe we weren’t really digitally transformed. What is something we should try to keep short term as opposed to allowing it to change us permanently.

Philip Ideson (00:49:24):

Can I take that first one? Sorry. Yeah. Yes, please. I’ve just, yeah. All right. So what I think about is the pendulum of how much bureaucracy we put behind risk identification and mitigation. So, you know, it’s hard to about before being involved in, um, responding to the financial crisis and an organization that had zero risk, um, focused to one that you get, um, such a risk kind of focused, depending on goes all the way over here. And you’re certainly slowing the business down and you’re actually creating an organization that can’t move and can’t be agile because you’re putting too much bureaucracy in terms of identifying and then managing mitigating risk. So I just caution, you know, there are a lot of things that we can do coming out of the pandemic to build an infrastructure around how we identify risks. That can be mitigated, but don’t go too far the other way that it really slows the business down to a crawl and it ends up having a negative effect. I agree with you because I think that can become a vicious circle and the, it ends up at

Koray Kose (00:50:28):

The same point. If you wouldn’t have actually done anything and you would have gone into the mice anyway, um, the point I would maybe add is that when you think about risks, what you should not internalize that this event was a negative event and the next one will be a negative event as well. And, um, risk is, and that’s something again, to step back, risk is neutral. The outcome of the event may impact you positively or negatively entrepreneurs who succeed are looked as risk takers. I would say they weren’t even knowing what they were getting into. And they were lucky because they are being talked about positively, but maybe the 99% who fail, they will never make the news. So it’s not like, you know, going through this industry and you will succeed. No. And over time, those organizations become more aware of their surroundings and they implement sort of a posture that, that helps them to keep what they already achieved and grow out of that.

Koray Kose (00:51:22):

So the same thing is for the pandemic and events like that. So don’t look at it that the next one shall happen again the same way. And you will be impacted the same way. And that doesn’t mean that what you put into place now, retroactively as a corrective action for that specific event will we’ll will work in the future. So it’s really about this seen as something you need to optimize against the pendulum is a good metaphor. Like, look at the balance. Your organization can strive for. It’s almost like when you sail, right? Every boat has a different ability to go into the wind, right? So some have a degree of 30, some have 50, maybe that’s physically possible, but if you look America and others, they are like, no, I just can’t do any. And you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re slow and moving forward and you will never really succeed in the race. So that’s where things I think need to happen in the mindset of the people don’t think that now the pandemic needs to be fixed. And now you’re good. One thing. And you don’t think that the next pandemic will not hit you in places. So just discover vulnerabilities as a continuous process, you will evolve too. Like, you know, when they sent me to Mexico, I had a very different risk appetite now, right? Because you learn as an organization. So internalize the learnings and not just the impact. You had a lot of negativity,

Scott Luton (00:52:40):

Captain Greg white agrees with your sailing terminology. Every bit of it. I said, thank you. That’s a great visual. Um, and other folks have really enjoyed it. Todd rains love karate passion, completely agree. Uh, see Rhonda says great point, karate taking a risk doesn’t mean success. If we have contingency plans in place might not work out such is life agreed as a layer like that. Mervyn agrees with the comment stated that risks are neutral. They are our opportunities in line. Excellent point, excellent point. Okay. So Kelly, this to your point that our has zoomed right by, right. But that’s, that’s what doll P has been. Uh, we, we get three of y’all and your intellect together and, and gosh, you’re going to blink in the hour’s gone. We’ve got to make sure folks know how to connect with both of our esteemed guests. Right. So, well, hang on.

Scott Luton (00:53:40):

So I want to share one more point here, Andrea, and hope this finds you well, Andrea, and as hope your sister Sophie is doing well too. She says, if you’re taking risks in your life decisions, the outcome will be good or bad, but you need to embrace the outcome and rethink the risk and the previous decision taking and make variations to have a different result. Uh, completely agree. And as David said earlier, comment, I couldn’t grab the definition of insanity. It’s just doing the same thing over and over and expecting those same different results. Right? Okay. So, uh, Caray, uh, Kara, you’ve got, um, the start of a fan club here, and we’ve got a lot of folks, as Leah says, so many questions for bring them back. So between you and Phil and Kelly, it’s been quite a, quite a discussion here, but how can folks connect with you and all the great things that, that Gartner’s up to?

Scott Luton (00:54:31):

Was that a question? How can, how can folks, uh, directly from the fan club chairman, how can folks connect with you and compare notes and are you active on LinkedIn? And maybe you’re, I am active on LinkedIn. You can look up my profile with, uh, just, uh, at the end, you know, linkedin.com/, uh, Kauai, go say it, but that’s all he, because they own loud. Oh, in Germany, in the internet world of things, it’s O E uh, when you look that up, you’ll find me, uh, just at me and, uh, you know, uh, hit me up with any questions or anything. And like, you can probably see me in other places and conferences. I’ve been active in different places as well. I’d love to come back. It was a lot of fun. Thank you for the invitation. I was, uh, I was honored to be here. I was, I had no clue what, you know, I’m going to do here with the questions you may throw at me. So I’m happy that some people actually appreciate it.

Philip Ideson (00:55:30):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:55:33):

Cry. I’m so disappointed. Your daughter did not make an appearance. I just knew she was going to walk. I know next time. So when the door, yeah, next time. Okay, Phil, I really appreciate all that you do out there. Congrats on such a, a ton of success and growth over it. Uh, art of procurement, we appreciate your partnership and all the content you put out there to further the industry is so important. Um, and of course, uh, as Kelly knows, I’m, I’m co-chair of the Atlanta area, Phil odds and fan club. I don’t know if you knew that airfield well, how can folks connect and compare notes with you

Philip Ideson (00:56:08):

Was appreciate the good words you put out that Scott, um, you much better a salesman for me than I am, but how he can you connect with me? I’m active on LinkedIn as well. So you can always just go and look me up on LinkedIn. Um, we have the website, which is of procurement.com.

Scott Luton (00:56:24):

Um, and we have a too early, we have a podcast once a week, every Monday. So wherever you get your podcasts, check us out. That’s just art of procurements is the name of the pod. Um, you’ll be able to hear more of our musings on the world of procurement and how, you know, we’re trying to help everybody really elevate their impact. Awesome. One of the oldest and most distinguished procurement focused podcast in the 2 million podcasts universe and growing that we live in. So, uh, I love that. Um, and we should also put out there Gil Michelle. There was a, there was a comment I shared earlier. I didn’t know the profile behind it. So Gail, thanks so much for contributing and Orrick. Um, the hits keep on coming, says he’s been working with for a long time. He’s one of the best and most intelligent experts on supply chain management.

Scott Luton (00:57:14):

How about that? I don’t know how much that will cost me, but think, and as Leah is adding art to procurement to their Spotify. Awesome. Thank you. Awesome. Okay. So Kayla, this has been so much fun. I hate to swoosh our guests out, but we’re going to get, we’re going to grab your final take after we bid a do so again, huge. Thanks to Kira Cosair senior director of supply chain research at our friends at Gartner and Phil Oddsson founder and managing director of art of procurement. Thanks to you both. Thank you. Wow, man. A ton of passion, ton of passion. So Kelly, the billion dollar question here, as we, after we, we, uh, had wrapped up that fast paced hour long discussion. What is a, what’s a key takeaway or two?

Kelly Barner (00:58:03):

The key takeaway is that this is why we need to have these conversations, right? Because we came to this saying, all right, risk is what we need to address right now. Urgency is what we need to address right now, agility or resilience, depending on your perspective. But when you think about the level of focus and maturity that Phil and Correy brought to the conversation, talking about risk appetite, talking about how to address that cross-functionally talking about not necessarily maybe hardwire structuring yourself to do better if the pandemic starts over, right. That’s not going to happen with any luck. Um, I think that’s why we need to discuss these things so that we can learn from them as they’re continuing to happen and hopefully position ourselves to be a little bit opportunistic going forward.

Scott Luton (00:58:47):

Excellent point excellent point. And it’s got an, a note just to, just to be clear, uh, so to learn more about Gartner gartner.com and I think Peter, Oh, Peter Bo lays right own the money he’s dropped a Carozzi profile in the comments. So we’ll make it as easy as possible to, to have our, um, our community and all the folks in the comments to connect with our guests. And I, I believe, uh, art or procurement.com was already dropped into comments as well. So a lot of good stuff, Kelly, I love your takeaways as always, there’s a ton, uh, find the risk, um, discussions and, and approaches to be a very intriguing aspect. H have for years, really the pandemic has just thrown everything on its head. Um, but you know, one of the, um, democratization, I say that, right?

Kelly Barner (00:59:33):

Yes, I know that’s a big, but that’s coming up everywhere that may end up being like the word for 2021 that’s coming up everywhere.

Scott Luton (00:59:42):

So interesting is, um, so we watched an episode of the office with Michael Scott last night and there, he came up with this, this campaign to stick a 10% off in random boxes of paper. And of course the boxes hit their largest customer and cost the company, presumably hundreds of thousands of dollars. And, you know, the phone up the phone from corporate was calling him, whose idea was this, who made this decision? And it was a great lesson learned because as much as, as democratization is empowering people and empowering people, regardless of department and function and where they kind of sit on the power structure to make decisions and to have that visibility, you still have these, these traditional vestiges that, uh, in some companies that aren’t quite ready allow folks at all levels in all the different positions to make those decisions. I still won’t seven signatures. Right. And routing the folder. So it’s just interesting. Uh, I don’t know what dichotomy means. I’m gonna go with it and act like that fits what I’m describing, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a ying and yang and it’s a, it’s a, um, it’s a battle playing out right here as we continue to navigate through the current environment.

Kelly Barner (01:00:49):

Yeah. No, you’re not going to be agile or resilient if it takes you 120 days and 45 signatures to make a decision. Right, right. Yeah.

Scott Luton (01:00:58):

Excellent point, excellent point. Uh, but at the same time, you know, you’re not gonna be a employer of choice and you’re not going to be a cutting edge organization. If you don’t use technology and, and trust to empower your people and let them go out and do big things. And every decision is not going to work out. And if it does, we’re all way too safe. Right?

Kelly Barner (01:01:20):

Exactly. You got to have a healthy attitude towards risk.

Scott Luton (01:01:24):

Excellent. Excellent. Okay. I’m going to share this comment from, from Mervin near, we’ve got some office fans. So bourbon clay is Scott’s hairstyle inspired, inspired by Dwight from the office. Thank you.

Kelly Barner (01:01:37):

Thank you for not asking that about my hairstyle. I appreciate that.

Scott Luton (01:01:42):

We all know that Greg and Enrica Alvarez are the ones buying for best hair in supply chain, but nevertheless, at Kelly, a pleasure, let’s make sure folks know how to connect with you and buyers meeting point.

Kelly Barner (01:01:53):

Yes. Please find me on LinkedIn that you can also visit buyer’s meeting point.com in both places. I’m easy to get in touch with. As a matter of fact, also artist procurement.com, I’m general manager there as well. So you pick your brand. I’m easy to find and easy to connect with. Yeah,

Scott Luton (01:02:09):

That’s right. And, and a joy to collaborate with and, and speaking, which is wonderful to not only of course have Corolla with Gartner. We love, uh, Mike Griswold’s monthly appearance with us great partners with, uh, Phil and, uh, y’all’s team at art of procurement. So always a pleasure. Okay. So folks, thanks for all the comments and the, and the, um, and the sense of humor and some of the questions we couldn’t get to most importantly, thanks for your, uh, kindred spirits in this journey. It, it makes every live stream own that note on behalf of Kelly Barner and Amanda and clay, and everyone behind the scenes here, Hey, wishing you the best wherever you are, wherever you’re tuned in from most importantly, do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. And on that note, we’ll see next time here.

Intro/Outro (01:02:53):

Thanks for, thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now, community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.