People and companies talk about technology constantly, but they don’t know what to do with it. Fortunately, procurement is in a position to be an initiator of supply ecosystem relationships that are trust-based even though they are distributed. To achieve this, we will have to de-hype technologies by looking beyond the surface – which, in most cases, is a thin digital frosting on the same old cake.

If we want to escape the old economy, we have to root out everything that serves as a connection to old ways of thinking: experiences, KPIs, language, and thinking of our supply chains from the bottom up.

Everyone in a supply chain wants to have contact with the customer, so the only way to win is for everyone in the ecosystem to work together. That said, change can be deceptive; in many cases, the things that change fastest do not indicate meaningful change.

In this Dial P for Procurement livestream, Rik Vera, international thought leader and author of the Guide to the Ecosystem Economy, and Koray Kose, Senior Director of Supply Chain Research at Gartner, joined co-hosts Kelly Barner and Scott Luton to discuss:

– What the ‘old economy’ means in terms of systems, thinking, and language

– What we are likely moving towards and what is driving it

– How open-minded thinkers and innovators can work in the space between old and new to design a future for themselves

Scott Luton (00:00:32):

Hey, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever you are. Scott Luton and Kelly Barner here with you on supply chain. Now really it’s a special dial peak for procurement live stream here at supply chain. Now Kelly, the first live stream of 2022. How you doing?

Kelly Barner (00:00:48):

I’m doing great. I actually feel like I’ve been cheating on my own show cause I’ve been on a few supply chain now live streams, but this is the first dial P of 2022. So I am very excited to have everybody here

Scott Luton (00:00:58):

That is right dial P for procurement and dial B for bar. So, uh, love to have these conversations here and enjoyed all of your great work of course, here at supply chain now over at art procurement, of course buyers meeting point, which is who we partner with, uh, to have, uh, and produce and lead, uh, the procurement thought space here at dial P for procurement and supply chain. Now, so today though, Ken, today, we’re gonna be getting challenged on our ways of thinking, is that right?

Kelly Barner (00:01:28):

That is absolutely right. So if your desk, chair or kitchen chair, if you’re having lunch has a seatbelt now would be the time to Fasten it, right? We want everybody being safe, move large glasses of liquid and sharp objects away. We are gonna set up some older ideas and then we are gonna knock ’em down and replace ’em with new ideas. So this is gonna be a fantastic and really fast-paced conversation.

Scott Luton (00:01:50):

Agreed. And I’ll tell y’all we had a ton of fun in the pre show. So, uh, we’ve got one of our favorite guests joining us, Koray Kose with Gartner. Uh, and we’ll bring on him in just a minute, along with his guest colleague, which is new to our supply chain now team, but not new to the rest of the world. We’ve got Rik Vera joining us. We had a blast and a pre-show, uh, so we’re gonna bring them them, both of those, uh, guest star supply chain stars, rock and roll stars, uh, into the streaming just a minute. But Kelly, we wanna remind people, we’re gonna say hello to a few folks in just a minute, but we to remind folks that nominations are indeed open, right for our 2022 supply chain and procurement awards, Kelly, we are, we are rock and roll into a fast and furious finish celebrating some of the, uh, biggest stories and, and, uh, success stories, case studies, leaders, organizations, uh, you name it across global industry while serving a really important mission, right?

Kelly Barner (00:02:49):

Yes. And, and it’s interesting. I think timing is gonna be key on this Scott, you know, better than anybody we’ve been working on this a really long time by May 18th when we’re celebrating our winners. I think, you know, your good news Friday posts get so much traction. Everybody looks forward to those boy. Does the world need some good news? So now is the time to get in your nominations. There’s a wide range of individual company, procurement supply chain, digital unsung hero type awards. So check out the full list, get in nominations, reach out to us if you have questions, but then really sign up to join us on the 18th. Let’s celebrate

Scott Luton (00:03:25):

That’s right. I love that. Uh, Kelly couldn’t have set up better. My myself folks we’re a week away, nominations are due. All of them are due by April 1st and there’s something really for everybody. So you can learn more at supply chain, procurement awards.com. It’s just that easy and no matter where your operation or your people that’s right, or your, uh, plant a site, doesn’t matter where you’re located. Everyone across the globe is encouraged to participate in some way, shape or form. Okay. So Kelly, I’m gonna say hello, just a, to a few quick folks as folks are, you know, it’s like the first few minutes of church folks are still getting in the pews. Uh, they’re still getting their hats, uh, set on straight. They’re still shaking hands and joining each other’s company. And that’s what, Hey, that’s what bringing folks together in these livestream conversations is why is so important, but we’ve got two important, awesome guests lined up with joining us in just a second. Terry Butler is tuned in via linked. Good morning to you, Terry. Hey, let us know where you’re tuned in from what part of the world are, are you in? Of course we’ve got Amanda Luton and the rest of the infamously talented production team. Oh,

Kelly Barner (00:04:32):

Incredibly talented. The most talented

Scott Luton (00:04:36):

Chantelle, Catherine Clay, you name it. All of ’em helping out with production behind scenes. Thanks for what you do. Jean pledger is back with us. He’s he’s becoming a bit of a legend around these parts. Isn’t he? Kelly morning

Kelly Barner (00:04:48):

Jean. Absolutely.

Scott Luton (00:04:50):

Uh, so Jean Hills, uh, from north Alabama, not only is he a passionate supply chain practitioner, but he is also actively engaged in teaching and kind of, uh, making sure and engaging the next or really the now generation is what we’ve coined here. The now generation of, uh, new leaders and practitioners across global supply chain. So great to have you here with us gene and look forward to your perspective. Okay. I know we couldn’t hit everybody here today, but we got a jam packed episode. Kelly, are you ready to introduce, I’ve got our guests teed up, ready to bring ’em in

Kelly Barner (00:05:25):

One thing first. All right. Audience, we set very high expectations with these two guests, as much as we were bragging about them to you, we bragged about you to them. So let us hear from you this morning. Okay. That was my last disclaimer. I’m ready.

Scott Luton (00:05:41):

All right, folks, for throwing down the gaunt, we wanna hear from you throughout today’s conversation. So with that said, uh, welcome in our two esteemed guests, uh, Cora senior director of supply chain research with Gartner and Rick Vera international thought leader and author of the guide to the ecosystem economy. Hey, Hey Rick. Carra. How are we doing today?

Rik Vera (00:06:05):

Karate.

Koray Kose (00:06:05):

Very well. Thank thank you. I mean, uh, I wanted to give Rick of course the first word, but, uh, as you,

Rik Vera (00:06:11):

Um, I’m doing, I’m doing great. I’m doing great from, from the other side of the ocean and I’m, I’m calling in from Belgium and it’s um, the weather is great here. It’s um, uh, five o’clock in the afternoon and I enjoyed the green room waiting. Uh, we had, we had great champagne here saying, well done guys.

Scott Luton (00:06:34):

Hey it

Kelly Barner (00:06:35):

Five o’clock somewhere apparently. Whereas Belgium. Exactly.

Rik Vera (00:06:38):

That’s

Scott Luton (00:06:38):

Right. Yeah. Well, Hey Rick, we tried to meet your guest demands. We had nothing but red jelly beans and fire hot Cheetos. So hopefully you got those in the green room with your champagne, but Hey, Rick and Cora, we had a, uh, an awesome time pre show with you both. And you’re just, uh, both of you are gifts to industry and we’re tickled to be able to share your, uh, thought leadership here today on a special dial P for procurement episode here on supply chain now, but I gotta close loop. Kelly, Terry Butler is with us and he, Hey, ask and you shall receive tuned in from Chicago, Illinois, the great city of Chicago. So great to have you here with us. Uh, Terry would look forward to your perspective. Now we know where you live. Uh, so you kind of bring it, make

Kelly Barner (00:07:18):

Us come over there.

Scott Luton (00:07:19):

That’s right. All right. So, uh, before we dive in, uh, Rik and Koray and, and Kelly, and talk about some of the issues of our, of the day and, and what’s going on across, uh, the old and new economy, or really better yet, what’s right in between, uh, which Rick really enjoyed your perspective. Let’s let’s have a little fun first. So, so Rick, even though you’re are in Belgium, a beautiful part of the world, uh, what is, and it may not be Bel what is your favorite restaurant or type food?

Rik Vera (00:07:46):

Yeah, exactly. It’s not Belgium. I should say Bel fries because everybody calls them French fries, but it actually Belgian fries, or everybody wants me to say Belgian chocolate, but my favorite food is still Italian cuisine because of it is, you know, it’s the basics, um, good ingredients, pure ingredients, and then a couple of simple actions to come to the very essence of what food should be taste

Scott Luton (00:08:15):

Well, you know, and I would add to that the, the passion and, and the recipes pass down generation from generation. There’s so much love baked into, uh, Italian

Rik Vera (00:08:25):

It’s mama cuisine. It’s the mama cuisine,

Kelly Barner (00:08:29):

And nobody messes with mama.

Scott Luton (00:08:31):

Exactly. It’s true. Yep. That is true. Especially if they, uh, value their legs not being broken. Um, right. So Rick, thank you for, uh, sharing that. Okay. Koray, we gotta come to you and Kelly, you’re not getting outta this, this question, Cora, tell us about, uh, your, one of your favorite places in the world and food there.

Koray Kose (00:08:50):

Well, food wise, I just like everything you put on a charcoal grill, you know, so, and, and it it’s, uh, meat based. Uh, so, you know, rather simple from that perspective, Mediterranean cuisine, certainly one of my favorites as well. So Rick, we have something in common that’s in addition to everything else we have in common. So that’s great. Yeah. Otherwise, uh, I mean, you know, uh, I, I love the, uh, Caribbean. I love also of course, Europe. And, um, so those are the places I’ve really traveled more than elsewhere, but, um, have been to Japan, I’ve been to China. So, uh, those places certainly are eyeopening and, uh, really intellectually also bringing you further. And so, so definitely love traveling as well. That’s perspective.

Scott Luton (00:09:37):

Cora, we’re gonna have to break out your, your, uh, photo albums of your travels. I bet you’ve got some, uh, some great pictures, uh, and stories. Hey, well, before I come to Kelly, I wanna challenge our production team Kelly to drop in some of their favorite cities and, and dishes they’ve had. Maybe we, we’ve never posed a question to them like that. So we’ll, we’ll see. But Kelly, talk about, let’s talk about your travels and some of your favorite foods.

Kelly Barner (00:10:03):

So for me, travels complicate things. We’ve shared this on a couple of episodes. I have celiac. So trying to travel and eat safely is an adventure. I will say there is one thing I, I can’t say no to anywhere. And that is a really good plate of nachos. There’s something about the cheese and the peppers and the community. Write the finger food to me. If I’m having fun, I’m sitting out someplace really beautiful with a nice cold Marita, no salt on theri and a really big, big, fresh plate of nachos to me. I could never say no to that.

Scott Luton (00:10:40):

Love it. And we’ll wash it all down with those gluten free Oreos that we’ve talked about also previous shows, right? Gluten

Kelly Barner (00:10:47):

Free Oreo chasers.

Scott Luton (00:10:49):

All right. Well, Hey, uh, one, uh, ask and you shall receive even with the production team here, Catherine says that you gotta give a shout out her college town of Birmingham, Alabama for delicious barbecue. That’s a cool, really cool city too. Uh, so thank you for sharing, Catherine and Amanda, too many favorite foods to name fried chicken, crab, legs, macaroni, and cheese cran, blee pizza, sushi, you name it. I’ll eat it. Uh, Amanda I’ll have one of one of each of those. Uh, I like how you think as always, okay, so we could talk food for the whole hour here, but we have so much to get to. We got so much, uh, goodness. We want to hear from Cora and Rick Kelly, where are we starting?

Kelly Barner (00:11:28):

So one question before we dig into our old economy, I just wanna get some thoughts from both Rick and Kaari, we’re gonna talk about some really different stuff today. And I think people are very quickly going to figure out that you two are both out of the box thinkers. So what I would like to get, and Rick, I’ll start with you. Give me a little bit of a window into your creative process. Where do you find inspiration? What do you do while you’re trying to organize thoughts into something cohesive you can share. What’s give us the behind the scenes on some of the new ideas that we’re gonna hear today.

Rik Vera (00:12:00):

Well, I’d get my inspiration is when I’m not looking for inspiration, that’s where I find my inspiration. You know, inspiration. You, you, you read quite a lot. You see quite a lot. I love the open mindedness of, of being nonjudgment judging, but just perceiving what happens. And then inspiration comes like maybe a day later, two days later, a week later, a month later or never. But the very moment, you know, when, when writing a book, I can’t write a book and sit down and then I have that two hours in my agenda, and now I’m going to write a book, then nothing happens. It, it always happens when it’s not planned.

Kelly Barner (00:12:42):

So it’s the spark that you’re waiting for.

Rik Vera (00:12:44):

It’s yeah. And it’s yeah. And if you’re waiting, if you, if you try to make the spark, it doesn’t happen. It just happens. Yeah. I’m not in charge.

Kelly Barner (00:12:54):

Yeah. And yet Carra, you’re kind of the flip side of that, cuz I’m not sure how many people are aware. They think, oh, you know, Gartner analyst, all these interesting conversations, just come knocking your door down. You actually put a lot of effort into thinking about who you need to go out and have conversations with and bring that into your thought process and introduce those people to the rest of us. How do you figure out who you need to talk to? What kind of information you need to look for to bring that into your perspective on the world?

Koray Kose (00:13:21):

So I think what’s important is just sometimes to overcome a little bit limitations that you set yourself by looking into just one direction. So when I think about people to connect with, I, I, I, I start to just explore other areas where, for example, I, I found a connection like Rick cause Rick was all about when I met him, he talked about, uh, customer experience and he talked about the ability to connect with the broader world. And when I started the conversation with him, I think both of us had like a light bulb moment where he said, well, all that you talk about fits perfectly into supply chain. And what I’m talking about fits perfectly into what you have been like exploring in the last few years. And then, you know, I think almost two years later, I see Rick, you know, totally into supply chain, you know?

Koray Kose (00:14:14):

And so, uh, that’s actually a great, great, great way to look at it. And the other way around is also important. Like I think having an open, uh, door to other thoughts, but also looking at situations say like, is that really like how I should understand it? What if, and then start digging, right? Sometimes it’s just, you start with a little like sort of notion or sense, and then you dig down and you basically explore a whole different possibility to explain a certain situation. And I think that helps us to dissect a little bit, a lot of the information that comes to us and the ability or inability to understand

Scott Luton (00:14:55):

Hopefully what a great place to start this conversation. And, and I think we’ve got, uh, we’ve got some, uh, corporate team members at, with Cori that want to share some thoughts around where they get air inspiration. And that’s a beautiful thing. Cori, you, I

Rik Vera (00:15:07):

Feel whole team with you.

Kelly Barner (00:15:09):

That was an unex expected spark of inspiration. Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:15:12):

I love that. Well, Hey, really quick. I wanna add to that. And just a couple comments I wanna reference before we keep going. For me, it’s it’s moments of simplicity, especially in the last few years where you take a pause from email and social and everything that’s going on in the world. We go not to be too hokey, but, uh, there’s a little town in Monroe, which is next to our, of Loganville. And there’s this courthouse with benches in front, it’s on this, this small town square and you see all the coming and going and just to sit in the moment and soak it in and kind of be with your thoughts. I have found, I I’ve really uncovered and unpacked some of our, our present challenges just in that moment of simplicity. And Amanda also adds Rick, what you shared Amanda is with Rick inspiration always seemed that seems to happen at the most inconvenient times. Now T squared who holds down Fort for on YouTube Ts squared really have enjoyed your perspective on several live streams this week. He’s still on the food food line, right? Baltimore, the chicken and half and half. Get this talk about creative crab cakes and chicken cakes. Uh, how about that? Uh, Kelly chicken cake.

Rik Vera (00:16:19):

Cool.

Kelly Barner (00:16:20):

Surf.

Rik Vera (00:16:20):

You have to explain that to me.

Scott Luton (00:16:22):

Yeah. Right. And hello. Uh, Danny. Great to see you here today via LinkedIn, let us know where you’re tuned in from. And Kathryn also taking a moment to reflect in nature is always a gift. That’s beautiful. Yes. I agree with you Catherine. Okay. Kelly. I promise I’ll hold the rest of the comments to our next break. Where are we going next with the guy Cora and Rick. So, so much talk about, so little time

Kelly Barner (00:16:43):

There is so first we’re gonna set it up and then we’re gonna knock it down. So Rick we’re here today to challenge the old economy before we can do that constructively, can you help us understand what the old economy is?

Rik Vera (00:16:57):

Yeah. The old economy is, um, the way we’ve been dealing with the outside world for over a hundred years because we had no other toolkits. What we did is when we think about the interaction that we had with our own people, but also with our customers. Uh, and Corey said our styles from customers because that on debt, that’s why we are here as a company. Your interaction with your customers only had two options. How do you do the good or 1 0 1? You know, my dad’s taking me by the hand when I was little and we get went to the local bank and then something strange happened that was facial recognition. They recognized my dad. And then they started to transmit data two ways. It was a two way communication, but it was locked up in, in place and time. So that was a good old 1 0 1.

Rik Vera (00:17:45):

You were recognized. I had a real conversation. And at the end of the conversation, I never heard my dad asking the guy behind the counter. Do I have the right to be forgotten because you wanted to be remembered. Yeah. Mm. Um, and then, you know, we had the scaling and there was only one way to scale and that was mass communication, mass production, one too many. And say the one on one and one to many has been our way to interact with the outside world for over a hundred years. And that was the old economy, but let’s look at the old economy. The old economy was also, and we that’s something that we’ve seen during COVID 19, COVID 19 didn’t break the system. COVID 19, just we’ve revealed that the system was broken. We, we were watching and we didn’t know how to de to deal with that.

Rik Vera (00:18:36):

But we, we were aware and we became very aware during COVID 19, that our economy was heading the wrong direction. We are based. We have based our economy on end, endless growth, not limited planet. Our economy was not good for people on planet. It was good for profit, but not for people on planet. We, and so we start to realize that we need to rethink the way we run our economy. And so what we see more and more is that the economy, as we’ve known it for over a hundred years, is that the end of its life cycle. That’s the easy part. The difficult part is what we are going to talk about when we know it’s dying, what is going to be the next that’s the difficult part.

Kelly Barner (00:19:20):

Yeah, no, it absolutely is. And, and maybe being com becoming aware, you know, you said COVID, didn’t break anything. It just showed us what was there. It,

Rik Vera (00:19:29):

It cold wakeup call you

Kelly Barner (00:19:31):

A very cold wake up call. Yeah. So Kaari, where do we look for evidence of the old economy, either in our thinking or in our systems, whether those systems happen to be technology, financial systems, supply chain, frameworks, where do we look for the old economy?

Koray Kose (00:19:47):

Uh, we basically, uh, look for the old economy everywhere, where we have an insight out thinking where we are, the center of it. And then we expect others to do something about our expectations. So when you discover that in your processes, in your, uh, relationships with your suppliers and your relationships with your customers, where you just expect them to pay for the goods that you deliver, and that’s about it, that’s actually all about all economy. Uh, when you look into environments where you connect on a short term goal, only that’s the old economy. When you start a relationship and you end it after you have dealt with the relationship and you don’t keep at least a record or a connection with that interaction for the future that can grow into any other area as well. That’s when you look at old economy, right? Mm. So things that basically are almost day to day to us are mostly based on old economy.

Rik Vera (00:20:43):

And there’s another thing that is so such a clear indication of all economy. It’s everything that we call linear, everything linear is all economy, everything linear, because again, we only had a toolkit to build linear things. And so everything linear and let’s, I’m, I’m, I’m very sorry. And now I’m going to be very bold as right from the start, but, you know, supply chain chain is linear. Mm. Yeah. So even when we talk about supply chain as a chain and not rethink it, that is sorry, guys. That’s all economy. Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:21:23):

And we’re not talking about transitioning from it, we’re talking, escaping it. Right. So it’s, that’s the first indication that that linear thinking has to come from

Rik Vera (00:21:32):

That. And that’s not to say that the linear thinking was wrong because we, we had no other option. Yeah. But now we have a different toolkit.

Scott Luton (00:21:40):

Right? Well, we’re reinventing it. And I don’t look at it as much as escaping, uh, cause there are certain vest of, of that linear version of global supply chain that I still will continue to be relevant, but it’s, it’s where we hear this term fabric. Right. Where it, and, and also also multiple dimensional. Right. It’s not just, it’s not just that linear chain as Rick is so eloquently speaking to Kelly. If I don’t, if I can. Cause I think this is a good moment. There’s an illustration. We from Rick, as we start to think about maybe what’s to come. And I think this is a good moment for Rick to kind of, kind of share this with us and share some thinking around the Twilight twenties. I think meet

Kelly Barner (00:22:19):

The monster, right?

Rik Vera (00:22:20):

Yeah. That’s meet the monster. The story behind this is that when I was writing my book, I had to fake it till, till you make it. Cause my editor was asking, where is it? And I said, it’s, it’s there. And I send them illustrations. And then the illustrations made it to the book. So these are my own illustrations. And one of the chapters is being called the Twilight twenties because I do believe that we are in the middle of the Twilight twenties when I was writing the book at the, in the early, you know, early stages of the pandemic in two, in 2020, uh, we just entered the Twilight twenties and people call it the roaring twenties. And I don’t believe it’s going to be the roaring twenties. It’s going to be the zoning between that dying old normal. It’s still there. You can still make money in the old, in the old economy.

Rik Vera (00:23:09):

And that, that we will not finish in the next year. And the next two years you can start, you can keep on eating the remains of that old economy for the next 12 or 10 years. But, um, the problem is that even if the old economy is dying, the new economy is not there yet. So we are in this, in between the Twilight zone, the Twilight zone between that dying old normal and a new normal, that’s not out there yet. You know, a Twilight zone is always the zone of monsters and creeps. But also if you look at it, the zone of tremendous opportunities and it’s, it’s your perspective, either you look at it like the zone of monsters and creeps, how do you look at it? Like this is zone of endless opportunities. Either you, you eat the remains of the old normal, or you take the pen and you, you yourself write the scripts of the new normal, because the fact that the new normal is are there yet is a tremendous opportunity because then you can still play a part in designing and formatting that new normal, and everybody can

Scott Luton (00:24:15):

Kelly, we’ve got walking dead is now in supply chain as, as Rick’s so eloquently painting that picture. I love the graphic by the way. And I’ll also of what I heard there. Kelly, uh, is how Rick shared these illustrations, which made these key points to his publisher. As he, as he built his book, that is such a, a ingenious way. All right, Kelly, where are we going from here?

Kelly Barner (00:24:38):

Well, from here, we’re gonna start trying to figure out what’s next. So we’ve just talked about the fact that we’re sort of in the space in between our anybody, that’s a Garth Brooks fan. We know that all the important stuff happens in the space in between. Um, so here’s, here’s what I’m curious about. And I actually like this, Rick, because times of transition can be very uncomfortable, but you’ve talked about it being an opportunity for people who are willing to take the pen and write the new rules or create the new system karate. When we think about, I mean, we’ve used supply chain as a perfect example of the old economy, what are some of the things that you are focused on, where if we’re going to drive change and start designing new ways, what are some of the things about the old construct that we need to start looking at with a little it, more of a skeptical eye?

Koray Kose (00:25:28):

Yeah, I think we should take some learnings from the past and we see these Twilight twenties actually earlier happening as well. They come and go and we enter sort of a new stage where technology and interactions change. Right. And not that, uh, um, you know, linears are really is a favorite of mine, but he said that sometimes there are periods of times where decades happen in month. And I think we are in that specific environment where decades pass in a period of month. And what that basically means is that the pace, the timeline pace is steady, but the change pace so much faster and you see that crippling down supply chains that they’re built based on the old thinking, we see the problems from, COVID not having necessarily changed a lot of enterprises as approach because now the Russia, Ukraine tr tragedy is causing havoc, which actually be foresee that it doing that.

Koray Kose (00:26:28):

But a lot of companies did not necessarily see that NEC uh, in, in the moment they said, well, you know, what’s Ukraine’s economy anyways, about what’s Russia’s economy anyways, about it’s as big GDP wise, like Texas. Yeah. You know, from the us perspective, but no, it’s actually far more complex than that. So when we’re looking at that sort of like misalignment between the pace we are changing and the pace the world is changing with a fixed timeline that we only have 24 hours a day, it’s really a hard to first understand and then decide what priorities you have in your activities. Things that help are certainly the ability to utilize the technologies and toolkits that Rick just mentioned of today. And tomorrow to drive a little bit, the change that you need on the other side, though, it’s really important for you to change the culture and mindset at, in your organization, from the inside, out to the outside in.

Koray Kose (00:27:27):

And that’s really not something that, which is new too, right? We have heard that all the time, but if you don’t apply it now you’ll feel the paints today. It’s Russia, Ukraine tomorrow. It’s gonna be sanctions maybe with China and trade who are back in there. And then the day after that it’s gonna be, we run out of gas supplies to the central invest in European parts, uh, of great economies and what’s gonna happen then recession, most likely. So when we are thinking this through, it’s just coming from all sort of angles that we could have foresee, to be honest. Yeah. It’s not like just everything is like, oh wow. Pandemic. Oh, wow. You know, Russia, Ukraine, no, it’s not like that. It’s actually, you know, uh, visible to us. We don’t see it. So you need to see it to understand. And I think that is, uh, a key to unlock how you position in the Twilight twenties.

Koray Kose (00:28:18):

If you’re gonna be the party who is running and screaming, or you go to the party who sees opportunities, and maybe you are of the party who shapes the new normal and nurtures the baby that Rick. Exactly, exactly cartoon. Cause that baby cannot necessarily survive by itself. It needs people and economies to define how the future is gonna be. So you, you better be on that side. If you just stand and watch, you make just, you know, look into another period of maybe even non-existence because we have companies in those highlights, their guide then sees to exist as companies,

Scott Luton (00:28:58):

But you left out a party, uh, the zombies that are still FEAS on the old economy that left out that, that share that stakeholder there. Right? Rick.

Rik Vera (00:29:06):

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, in the past you were a good manager. If your checklist was all on green, now you are a good manager. If you are capable of writing the new checklists and that is something that’s completely different ballgame.

Kelly Barner (00:29:20):

And Rick, maybe to start with you, we haven’t talked about digital yet. I mean, typically we love to digital innovation, digital technologies, digital supply ecosystems. We look to digital as the solution, but we’ve talked about all these systems and thinking and frameworks and challenges, and the fact that normal’s gone, right. If you’re waiting for normal to come back, you’re gonna be waiting a very long time. Where do we start to maybe not just wait for digital to offer us new solutions to our problems, but where do we start to challenge digital back and see what it can do for us in terms of helping us write that new checklist?

Rik Vera (00:29:56):

You know, we should stop using that objective digital because everything is digitized. Um, and as long as we keep on using it, we clearly indicate that we come from the old economy where digital was something new and our digital is all over. So let’s forget that adjective, digital, everything is digital. If you show a camera to young people, they just say, camera, we call it the digital camera, right? That is so stupid. We do exactly the same when we’re talking about digital disruption. First of all, it’s not disruptive. Uh, it’s only disruptive if you wait too long, if you wait too long and if you don’t adjust your company to changing environment, then at that moment, the gap between what you do and what your customers are looking for becomes so huge that if you have to bridge it, then it looks like disruption. And second it’s about way more than just digital.

Rik Vera (00:30:47):

It’s about a changing, uh, consumer. It’s about changing people. It’s about the changing society. The canvas of society has changed. And as a company, you don’t have to be surprised that the canvas of, of society has changed because it happened where we now entering the Twilight twenties. But the root course is, you know, the internet 1993, social media, 2005, the platform economy 2010, that was not yesterday. That’s pretty long time ago. And I think that the tipping point was being predicted by the Maya. The Maya said that the world would end on the 21st of December in 2012. And I think they were absolutely right. That was the tipping point between the old economy that will never come back. You can wait for that for the, the next couple of centuries, it’s not going to happen. Uh, and from that moment, the world tipped over and now it’s up to us to reinvent and you type of world and a new type of economy. And I really envy the managers of today because they, I have a unique generation that does not have to do, you know, the checklist of what was being designed for them. They have the opportunity to design the very own future. And then is one’s in a, it’s not a lifetime, it’s a, one’s in, you know, the lifetime of, um, business.

Scott Luton (00:32:11):

Well, who would’ve think, and I I’ve gotta, still embrace digital. I’m I’m gonna, I wanna follow Rick’s advice, but the fame,

Rik Vera (00:32:18):

You know, that this, this was before digital,

Scott Luton (00:32:21):

Well, Hey, you’re, you’re speaking my language. That’s the era. I’m about reference the legendary philosophers, digital on the ground, who to think one of their greatest hits was as prophetic, uh, prophetic as, as, uh, as we all know, it started with stop what you’re doing. Cause I’m about to ruin the image and the style that you’re used to swap out a few words, the global business and supply chain world that you used to, Hey, it fits right in with that 1993 ish uh, vibe that you’re going with, Rick, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta embrace,

Rik Vera (00:32:51):

You know, prince prince was wrong. Let’s stop to party like it’s 1999. Oh,

Scott Luton (00:32:56):

That’s better than mine, Rick. But

Rik Vera (00:32:58):

Most business models still act as if it’s 90, 99 as, as if we’re still using this type of things to communicate. Yes.

Scott Luton (00:33:07):

Yes.

Kelly Barner (00:33:08):

So when we, if we take that idea, wait, wait

Scott Luton (00:33:10):

A second, Kelly, wait a second. Kelly. We’ve referenced. I

Kelly Barner (00:33:13):

Don’t have to sing it. Do I?

Scott Luton (00:33:14):

I was about to say, I I’ll say, you know, we’re gonna test Kelly Barner segue skills here because we’ve just referenced digital underground and prints Kelly. The, the pressure’s on, where are we going? All I can

Kelly Barner (00:33:26):

Can think to say is we need more cowbell. It’s all I can think of. So we’re going with more cowbell. I guts to have more cowbell.

Kelly Barner (00:33:37):

So Kaari, we’re talking about, you know, disruption, it’s, it’s actually interesting. And you know, I love sort of the, the language approach without realizing it, right. We’re using the word disruption, which has a negative connotation. Exactly. I think, right. It’s just, I mean, do you call it uncertainty, unpredictability? Those things seem like they should be par for the course, but karate in response to dis with all of its negative connotations, we talk about what supply chain, agility, supply chain resilience are. Those also examples of the old thinking. If we have disruption with its negative ideas at the center of the change we’re trying to lead.

Koray Kose (00:34:17):

I think those are just, uh, um, ways to kind of counter the negative notion of disruption, make something, you know, appear to be the solution. I’ll throw one more in a risk, right? When you hear risk, you’re like, oh no, let’s get an insurance. Right. Unfortunately we’re taught to think like that. Whereas risk merely means uncertainty. And then the one who is in control about the future is not something always outside it’s off to something inside. Yeah. So, but we, we tend to not understand that often. And we always say, they, instead of I can do this or I should do that. And, um, actually there is a comment there, which I find of fascinating. It’s like, okay, ecosystems are really the way that the current is, is working. Exactly. And then, uh, that’s building ecosystems in the future is really not yet perfect. It, yes.

Koray Kose (00:35:14):

But the pocket and silver lining there is BC pockets and you see pockets that have different levels of, uh, attempt. And we have, uh, uh, actually created sort of like a maturity curve of where do you want to establish yourself? Where do you settle your limits, right. Are you working with it an ecosystem going away from a supply chain to be more efficient and cost, uh, competitive? Are you doing that for agility and innovation? Maybe. Exactly. And are you, and that’s like, what I wanna push people towards too, is are you connecting with an ecosystem for a higher purpose, which is yes, you’re exchanging goods and services, but under the umbrella of achieving something better. And that can be, that can be stability in today’s context, that can be actually freedom, right? Is supply chain supporting your higher purpose to create freedom in this world?

Koray Kose (00:36:12):

And if that’s the case, we can easily connect to the crisis right now in Russia, Ukraine, you can connect to COVID, COVID cut a lot of our freedoms, right? And maybe this is a way to look at the silver lining of this and you choose where you want to start. I mean, of course, everybody is scrambling to, you know, to survive at this point that the broken change. But I also would not say there is not an ecosystem yet. That is to be perfected true, but everybody starts on their own journey. But at the end of the day, I would urge everybody to connect for a higher purpose. And the higher purpose is generally not something that is inside out. That’s actually outside in how the ecosystem will affect me positively to be there for the greater good. And at the end of the day, it’s also okay to leave an ecosystem or have multiple ecosystems and create new ones because that’s called like, almost like the evolution of your own company, but what it does, it, it, it ensures your continuous existence. Yeah. And if purposeful existence, right. Not vegetating somewhere and just waiting for you to die, right. It’s really doing something significant that impacts others. And that’s the outside look, I think that we need to consider,

Kelly Barner (00:37:31):

Well, I think there’s a circularity there, right? When we look at that as a progression, you go from innovation to higher purpose. But for instance, if we pull in example that we’ve seen recently from a corporation in Ukraine, we have SpaceX’s sky link, right? So they had innovated, right. And they got the opportunity to use that innovation for a higher purpose, but it doesn’t stop there. It’s not like, well, just because I’m helping people, it stops, there are gonna be developments and innovations and progressions and you know, ways to improve both functionality and hardware that change, because this is a use case that wasn’t necessarily foresee. It makes me think that it’s not necessarily about the person who can bring control or establish a framework in our new situation. It’s the person that learns to thrive in the midst of the chaos.

Koray Kose (00:38:21):

Right? So the Twilight went really your lab environment on steroids, right? Without the proof of conflict of this conflict, Starling was more like, Hmm, is he going to shoot it over Africa, into remote areas? You know, who’s gonna actually want satellite internet when I have nice cable boxes I can connect to. And there is a grip company who wants to keep actually the grip kind of connected to us. So there’s also this old economy fighting the change and trying to keep you with them. Um, I drop cable many years ago. Like I don’t like, and, and I don’t actually even have time for it. I wish I did, but twenties creates so many situations that you need to utilize them as proof of concepts. And once it works, you scale and you see it in starting it’s, now that it works starting, it’s like, Hey, I’m gonna shoot another 600 up there and I’m gonna reach remote locations. That’s gonna be a game changer.

Scott Luton (00:39:22):

So if, if I can really quick, uh, cause I wanna get Rick to respond to what Cora was just saying, Kelly, if, if it, it works for you two quick comments, first one comes from John and John Perry. Great to see you back here. Uh, he quotes James Lane, Allen adversity. Doesn’t build character. It reveals it. What a great quote there.

Rik Vera (00:39:41):

Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Scott Luton (00:39:43):

And then one, one other quick one, Rick, and I’m gonna get you to respond is just, this came up the other day, Kelly, Elon Musk, man, there there’s all sorts of opinions of Elon Musk over the years, but what he’s been doing in recent weeks weeks, uh, in Ukraine with Starlink and, and some of, some of the messaging and awareness heck challenging Putin to a fight. I mean, that kind of is little cheesy, but the star link that is empowered. Talk about a, a higher purpose that is helped change the nature of what we, you know, uh, take place in Ukraine. So he really cheers. Elon, keep, keep doing what you’re doing. And, um, love that

Koray Kose (00:40:25):

One thing closer than Elon, especially to you is the vector logistics initiative. If you think about that, utilizing your own means for a higher purpose is the, the highest level of activity that should be called out here, right? Not just the Elon Musk, but I think what Enrique is doing is right the same place with the higher purpose. In fact, I’m appreciative of Gartner making a stand quickly to say, we’re stopping the work with the Russian government even actually now further is that are stopping any activity with any Russian companies. And we are moving out of Russia to really like higher purpose needs, needs, clarity too. You cannot be ambiguous and have a higher purpose, right? If you don’t have contrast, if you don’t have a position that you connect with a higher purpose, clearly, and system understands what you’re doing, you’re not creating an ecosystem, you create ambiguity and you actually add to the Twilight.

Rik Vera (00:41:26):

Yep, exactly. Yep.

Scott Luton (00:41:28):

Be I love that. Cora, Rick, I know let’s get your take on what Cora has been

Rik Vera (00:41:32):

Talking about now, but the first thing I want, I want, um, Cora, you’re absolutely right. When, when you were talking about taking risk and not taking risk, I think that not taking any risk for the moment is the biggest risk. It is. You know, people always say, when I talk about Ko or no, but they’re still alive. You they’re still alive. But look at the missed opportunities. It’s not that they’re still alive. It’s about what did they miss by not wanting to see it, or if they saw it by ignoring what they saw. You know, I, I, I love to refer to James David diamond, uh, wrote a letter to his shareholders in 2015 saying they awake at night because of the startups, the Silicon valley. And then he ends that letter to his, all the saying, we did not see the digital tsunami coming in 2015.

Rik Vera (00:42:18):

He must have seen it coming. But I re I love that. I don’t like his analogy with the tsunami because he calls it a digital tsunami. But if I think about the digital tsunami, I like to compare it with beach chair model. Just imagine, uh, your business model is putting and renting beach chairs on an overcrowded beach because every company is in an overcrowded beach. You know, you have plenty of competition. So the one thing that you do is you focus on your beach chairs, smaller chairs, put them closer together by the main China. They’re the cheaper, all that type of stuff. There’s one thing you forget to watch the ocean because you assume that the ocean is always the same. So even if there is a tsunami on the wave, the only thing that you’re going to see is extra beach because the sea returns, and you’re only going to see extra beach.

Rik Vera (00:43:07):

And even if you see that small wave on the horizon, your brain is going to minimize the wave. That always happens. We say, you know, but the impact is not going to be that huge. And I’ve got still plenty of time, you know, with the, with, with what we do, we’ll deal with it when it happens. But when you’re still on the beach, when the tsunami hits your beach, you can only scream and run and hope you survive. And then we call it digital disruption. So not taking any risk is only the biggest risk, but it’s the biggest risk of not seeing the next big opportunity. And I think that Elon Musk is so good in, you know, I think in his head, he’s got two boxes, the box possible. And when you come up with a possible idea, I reckon that the only thing he says is why didn’t you do it yet? Because it’s possible, I think is in love with the impossible box, everything that is in the box that everybody says, it’s impossible. If you can turn the impossible into the, not impossible using the new toolkit, that’s out there, then you’re not talking about digital disruption. You’re talking about, Hey, how can we use digital to, to make seemed impossible in the past to turn it into the not impossible and then magic happens. And that’s exactly what he’s doing.

Kelly Barner (00:44:24):

But Rick, if Rick, if we focus on that impossible box, right, and we’re trying to get as many things out into the other box as we can, we also have to be willing to fail. So is there a way we can either bolster our willingness to fail or do you think there is so much change happening in parallel so quickly right now that maybe the world will be more forgiving of failure than it would’ve been in, in the past?

Rik Vera (00:44:52):

You know, I like to work at acronyms. And when I, when I talk about leadership, I like to talk about, you need to be a chief and chief stands for, you need to be connected. You need to be humble. You need to be, have your integrity. You need to have your empathy. And that’s the outside IM perspective. And you need to be forgiving because in fast changing times, you need to be forgiving, but you need to learn from the mistakes that you make. That’s the difference between, you know, fragile companies. You never want to be a fragile company, but that most companies think that the opposite is being a rigid company, but feel or rigid company. And where out around you is changing. The only way you can adapt is by breaking, by breaking down your company. And that’s not what you want. So we have to move to becoming.

Rik Vera (00:45:41):

And that’s what Naim lip, uh, is describing in his book, anti fragile to a company that’s anti fragile, anti fragile is you’re not bounce back. You bounce forward. You learn from your mistakes. You learn from, from whatever happens and it makes you stronger, but you can only build an antifragile company. And that is my big belief. If you build an ecosystem because only by becoming an ecosystem, not a linear system, but an interconnected, uh, system that you can learn and be anti fragile. So ecosystems is not just, oh, let’s build an ecosystem. It’s the only way, not only to survive the Twilight twenties, but to out of the Twilight twenties as a stronger company than when you entered it.

Koray Kose (00:46:27):

And maybe to add to that comment is, uh, maybe a little bit provocative or taking negative, but I think companies have to have a lower attention span. Let’s say it that way. It’s actually good thing, Scott, to have not such a long attention span,

Rik Vera (00:46:44):

You know, you know, the human race has got the spin of attention of 7.6 seconds. A goldfish has got the spin of attention of eight seconds. We are beaten by goldfish. So no is there,

Koray Kose (00:46:58):

But it’s not necessarily that way. I actually mean it the other way around. Why, why I’m gonna say in maybe a couple sentences, because once your attention is to get successful in something that does not necessarily prove to be successful, we tend to try to continue to, to push the products into the markets, try to keep relationships with suppliers because they’re single source for longer or so source even worse, right? So the attention span of companies can be extremely long. And when you said, how can I be going through the Twilight twenties successfully is lower. Your attention spend like lower the attention, spend to something and fail fast. If you fail fast because the attention spend takes, uh, hopefully is nurtured longer. The more success you see, but if you are just in it to like win it. And that’s, I was like, it’s like really box thinking in that way, you may not work on the most important things that drive the future. And that’s where the attention span being shorter helps you to shift your view to something else that’s maybe better.

Rik Vera (00:48:04):

I think we, we need to combine short span of attention with long term vision. I think that not enough companies think about relevance in 2035. Yes. When you talk about 20, 35, they think, oh, we’ve got plenty of time. And somebody here in the chat referred to the financial crisis of 2008 and we all remember, well, like it was yesterday, but as 14 years ago, 14 years ago, right? 2022 plus is 2036. So 2035 is just around the corner. If we want to be ready, about 20, 35, we need to have something new in the next three years. And if we want to have something new in the next three years, we better move, start moving our in the next three days, because otherwise we keep us pointing it.

Scott Luton (00:48:47):

So that’s where I’m taking this next question, Kelly, if I can, if I’m at, of course, first off those two things, you mentioned that you got a group together, Rick, you just left one, one thing out champagne. Let’s take those two things and add some champagne. We’ll get some real progress made, but both of y’all have been referencing what RO hit said here, 2008, 2009, regression recession has changed the perspective intertwine economies. Now 2020 did it again. It is made us reiterate what the integrated economy truly means. Like building supply ecosystems without the supply ecosystem, the global economy would not function as it is functioning today. However, the supply ecosystem is yet to be perfected. That is a work of art, uh, Ruit, keep that those comments coming in. Um, okay. We got all also got a question from Yon, which I’m gonna bake into the question as we start to wrap to Rick and to Ry Kelly, welcome your kind commentary on this too. Cause we’re talking about a massive change management effort is what it comes down to. Right? Massive on, on a scale perhaps that we hadn’t seen, uh, before, uh, Rick, you’ve been speaking to that Cora and Kelly, all of y’all been speaking to it. So the question and succinct your most succinct answer, if we could, cause we also wanna make sure folks how to connect with y’all all the work you’re doing, your book, you name it, but Rick, where, how can we get started? How can our listeners get started?

Rik Vera (00:50:08):

Um, you know, in, um, in my book, but also to, in my, in my keynotes, I like to talk about the 11 and a half things you can do today to be ready for that new environment. And that last half thing is curiosity. Most companies, just miss curiosity. I think that we should introduce a new KPI, a new KPI, the net curiosity score. How curious are we as a company? Because if you think about curiosity, most companies, what we miss, because then we get rich. Then we can blind for the outside world. Then we miss the outside in perspective and we turn on it into inside out. And then you start to go and to look at the world based on assumptions. And the perfect antidote for assumptions is curiosity. So I do really, I want companies to develop a new KPI, the net curiosity score, and if they do so all the rest will follow.

Scott Luton (00:51:00):

Mm. So did you another great t-shirt is there Kelly, the perfect antidote for assumptions is curiosity, right? And, and especially defeating and battling assumptions. Your quick take Kelly on what Rick just shared.

Kelly Barner (00:51:12):

No, I think it’s not enough to continue being good at what you’re good at today or what you’ve been good at in the past. I think in, in some ways it’s actually a pursuit of discomfort. Um, you know, if you’re gonna be curious, you can’t just be, you know, in our case here, curious about supply chain, curious about procurement. You also have to be curious about, you know, why certain trees are growing more this year. You have to be curious about new health trends because you never know where there’s gonna be sort of a crossover idea and constantly being exposed to new ideas and new ways of thinking. It’s, it’s really what we need. It’s why I’m glad that you guys are able to be here today.

Scott Luton (00:51:47):

I agree. Agreed. Uh, Cora, same question to you, your most readers digest version answer. How can listeners get started in managing and leading this massive change management project that we’re all facing?

Koray Kose (00:52:03):

I would say, just look around the closest to you because ecosystems don’t have to be global, especially in the multi polarized world that we’re facing in the future. Now nothing has to be like globally spanning a lot of it is actually value orchestration in the local environment. So ecosystems can be small, can be large, but it doesn’t mean that it always has to be this global, oh my God, how am I gonna manage a global or ecosystem sort of mindset? So you can start slow, uh, not slow, but you can start really close to you and create ecosystems of higher purpose as, uh, yeah, exactly at first. And then you can scale that up. So, um, don’t think to like, you know, that you can now go and create a supply chain that suddenly in your most valuable go it’s it’s globally interconnected. We may not even have in companies the technology to manage that. Right. So at the end of the day, uh, I think the easiest is the closest. So look for that. Look for the, the local impact you can create and tie it back to the higher purpose. Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:53:07):

Love, love that. Uh, gosh, we you’ve had not only two star studied, uh, featured guests here today, Kelly, but we’ve had a pop in appearance by a member of Cora’s team. Ruby

Koray Kose (00:53:19):

Saw, I saw your,

Scott Luton (00:53:21):

I was about, I was about to call that Ruby. The rescue made her first appearance on livestream. She wanted to talk about change management,

Koray Kose (00:53:28):

Curiosity, story,

Kelly Barner (00:53:31):

Go check it

Scott Luton (00:53:31):

Out. Um, Kelly, we’re gonna get your last thought after we, uh, thank Rick and Cora for their time, but let’s make sure folks know how to connect. We had so much to try to get into this hour. There’s still hours more of conversations to be had with, with, uh, Cora, Rick and Kelly. But, uh, we’ll save that for another day. Rick, how can folks connect with you? How can they get a copy of your, um, well received book, bestselling book? How can folks connect

Rik Vera (00:53:55):

With you? Yeah, they can just order my book in that, um, little with that little, um, American company named Amazon, um, maybe you’ve ever heard about them, but they’re selling books and you can buy my book at Amazon. Uh, it’s called the guide to the ecosystem economy it’s full of, of my illustrations, but also quite a lot of words. And there’s only one Rick thera in the world. So if

Scott Luton (00:54:21):

You, I

Rik Vera (00:54:21):

Believe that if you Google me, you find me. If you find I’ll find you because the next big thing will be a lot of interconnected, small things.

Scott Luton (00:54:32):

Mm. I love that Rick, uh, such a pleasure, really, you know, the same Rick Vera that we see in the pre-show is the same person you saw here today. Just like Ry and, and, and they live it. They breathe it to keep it real. And we love guys that

Kelly Barner (00:54:47):

Are passing the chief test.

Scott Luton (00:54:49):

Yes. Yes. And, and you know, that’s chief, uh, not C H E I F. That is chief C H I E F. I just got pick on, gotta pick on the member of the production team there. Hey, I don’t know how to spell, uh, very, very well either but C H I E F I love that. Uh, all in good fun folks. All in. Good fun. All right. So Cora, Cora, Jose, how can folks connect with you and the Gartner team?

Koray Kose (00:55:12):

Yeah, the best way to connect with me is really through LinkedIn. I’m an avid follower of supply chain. Now you’ll see me in the ranks, uh, and just watching from the sidelines. Other than that, just connect with Gartner whenever you have, uh, the need to, uh, good and other researchers, there are way smarter people at Gartner than you see right now on the screen. So, uh, but uh, if you want to connect with me, please do so reach out on LinkedIn.

Scott Luton (00:55:38):

Well, appreciate that Kelly. Two heck of a guess, right?

Kelly Barner (00:55:42):

I told you it was gonna be good. I, I delivered, I definitely promised these guys with high and they came through for us,

Scott Luton (00:55:49):

Always, always, well, Kelly, we’re gonna, we’re gonna keep you back for a second as we start to wrap this episode and, and get your final thought or two, but, but before we do that again, a big thanks to both of our guests here today. Cora Jose senior director supply chain research with Gartner and Rick Vera, the one only Rick Vera international thought leader in author of the best selling the get, add to the ecosystem economy available at Amazon. Thank you, Rick and karate.

Rik Vera (00:56:13):

Thank you God.

Scott Luton (00:56:16):

So Kelly, it’s all in. Good fun. I wasn’t being mean picking on anyone’s spelling. You’ve Kelly, you and I have had a good little good, uh, good bit of fun. Trying to help my grammar in English, on Twitter and on LinkedIn. So I don’t throw stones cause I live in a big old glass house. All right. So, and hopefully, uh, Amanda and, and the gang, I took that in the spirit, which it was shared. So, so much goodness, and all jam packed this last hour. We couldn to as many comments as we’d like, but Kelly, what was your favorite thing that Rick or Cora shared here today?

Kelly Barner (00:56:49):

I think the, the favorite thing, you know, when you think back of that progression and we talked about first you innovate and then you get to sort of leading social change and you know, important doing important, good works. The faster you can get past innovation into good works, right? The faster you start to reap the rewards back in the form of innovation and competitive advantage and hopefully increased revenue and market share. So it’s not like you have to perfect all of these things, right? Doing well in a complex, uncertain situation before you start to benefit, it’s almost like get to the end as fast as you can get out of Elon. Can’t be done. Box, get into his can be done box as fast as you can, even if it’s messy, cuz that’s where you start to see the positive reinforcement for the change you’re trying to lead. That’s gonna be a visual that sticks in my head. That’s stair step diagram.

Scott Luton (00:57:36):

Mm agreed. And, and we’re gonna throw this out there one more time. I’ve got it teed up here. Yeah. Uh, y’all check that out. I bet. If you reach out to Cori via a LinkedIn, uh he’s he’s always willing to help loves comparing notes. Like few. Absolutely. So y’all do that. Cora Jose on, on LinkedIn and also, uh, the, the graphic here. You gotta reach out Rick. There’s so many more beyond a t-shirt really, really, we gotta name that monster. Maybe. I wonder if he’s got a name for that monster.

Kelly Barner (00:58:03):

Oh, we should have asked. There’s always one question you don’t get to ask. That’s

Scott Luton (00:58:05):

The one we’ll do it next time. Uh, two great guests. Uh, Kelly, always a pleasure. Congrats. We love man. Dial P was such a, um, a hit in season one dial P for procurement, which launched an early 20, 21. Yep. Uh, you’re such a leading forward looking voice, not just the world of procurement where you’ve got a ton of extra, but it’s much broader. It’s about global business global business leadership. Uh, the chief approach to leadership is Rick shared with us here today. And you’re a great embodiment of that. And it’s a pleasure to collaborate with you. What, how can folks connect with you and buyers meeting point AOP, all that good stuff.

Kelly Barner (00:58:42):

Sure. So I know production drop the link. Please subscribe to dial. You’ll catch this as well as all of my straight to audio podcasts and interviews, find me on LinkedIn. And then of course, buyers meeting point.com art of procurement.com. There is no end to the new ideas, innovative thoughts and different approaches.

Scott Luton (00:59:00):

Wonderful, wonderful. Uh, thank you so much for, uh, helping to facilitate and a lead today. Show big. Thanks to Kelly Barner, bys meeting point big thanks to Cora Jose and Rick Vara. Man, what a dynamo one, two punch. Make sure you get Rick’s book. Make sure you connect with Cori and all the great things that the Gartner team are doing. Hey, get those nominations in April. First folks is seven days away coming up. Awesome supply chain, procurement awards dot coms, as easy as that. And Hey, what’s a supply chain conversation without referencing prints and digital underground and good food and great people. Uh, and more cowbell. Yeah. And more cowbell. Thank you, Cal. One of my favorite skits of all time on Saturday, but folks, whatever you do this last hour was chockful of very actual insights from, uh, three great people. Kelly, Cora and Rick, whatever you do though. Scott Ludin and supply chain. Now team challenging you to do good. They give forward and to be changed, be the change that is needed. And we’ll see you next time. Right back here on supply chain now. Thanks everybody.