Intro/Outro (00:01):

Welcome to Digital Transformers, the show that connects you with what you need to build, manage, and operate your digital supply chain. Join your host in a timely discussion on new and future business models with industry leading executives. The show will reveal global customer expectations, real world deployment challenges, and the value of advanced business technologies like artificial intelligence, blockchain, and robotic process engineering. And now we bring you Digital Transformers.

Kevin L. Jackson (00:33):

Hello. This is Kevin L. Jackson and welcome to Digital Transformers on Supply Chain Now. Today, I have the incredible pleasure of teaming up once again with the illustrious Sally Eaves to discuss our perspectives on the RSA Conference in in 2023 in San Francisco. Welcome, Sally.

Sally Eaves (00:55):

Oh, thank you, Kevin. Always a pleasure. Absolutely. And what an amazing event in person that was, wasn’t it? I think like the 32nd in a row. But from our experience, I think from everybody I’m hearing has been at that event, I think was kind of a whole new level in terms of just the innovation, bringing together different people, but also the collaboration that we saw. Kind of the good guys coming together for cybersecurity, you know? So, yes, an amazing, amazing couple of weeks that we’ve had at the event and beyond, because again these are trends set to last.

Kevin L. Jackson (01:23):

Yes, I think I’m going to pat ourselves on the back for the three a day. Did you really enjoy that?

Sally Eaves (1:30):

Amazing.

Kevin L. Jackson (1:31):

We both are streaming and actually livestreamed multiple events every day, from the hotel to the booth to the evening recollections at the bar. That was great. We pointed out each day’s learnings. The conference highlights and crucial, crucial proof points, supporting while we believe AT&T is delivering a new networking standard to their customers. Wasn’t that fun?

Sally Eaves (01:58):

Oh, it was. Honestly. And those examples you gave of how we did that, the three a day, I love that. It’s going to stick forever, I think. But we took the audience with us, didn’t we? And that’s what I loved about that.

Kevin L. Jackson (2:07):

Mm-hmm.

Sally Eaves (2:08):

It was kind of starting our day, bringing the audience in, as you said, at the hotel sessions. Kind of our highlights being at the booth, and then our recollection down at the hotel afterwards. And that’s what people do, isn’t it?

Kevin L. Jackson (2:18):

Yes.

Sally Eaves (2:18):

It really is a genuine reflection of an event. But doing that live and be able to share that live and, kind of, bring everybody with us was I thought was an amazing thing. And also, again, you know, the theme of RSA this year, Stronger Together, I think it really reflected that as well. You know, what we were doing together in collaborating, but also the cybersecurity community as a whole as well. It really felt quite a special moment of coming together. So, yes, loved it’s a short answer.

Kevin L. Jackson (02:39):

I think it was actually a very broad together. I mean, in the evenings I would get comments and e-mails about, you know, what they saw. And the audience was there with us.

Sally Eaves (2:53):

Exactly.

Kevin L. Jackson (2:54):

It was it really amazing.

Sally Eaves (02:55):

Definitely. Definitely.

Kevin L. Jackson (02:56):

And that first day — yes, yes. And — so, each day was different. We sort of had a theme for each day. And like, the first day we were talking about security in the network and how the cyber threats were really growing. How organizations had to really limit their vulnerabilities. And they all start with the network.

Sally Eaves (03:22):

Absolutely. It’s so, so true. And you’re right, I think across the three days, key points to look at. And I think maybe my first one is around the expertise, you know, is business, you know, I think we saw that. Particularly on day one, I think that really supported all we were learning about. I mean, so many interactions up close, you know, at the booth but obviously in other areas as well.

Sally Eaves (3:41):

And I think it really reflected as well how AT&T has supported the community. You know, business continuity and planning would be a great example of that. And we’ve got to learn and see, didn’t we, firsthand how AT&T supported the kind of the navigation of that experience, and particularly the rapid changes that produce really in the business environment. So, really interesting there.

Sally Eaves (04:00):

A couple of things that caught my eye was, for example, IoT consulting specialists, that expertise and how that really embedded solution development right through, you know, from solution development and the roadmap that produced right through to implementation. So, it’s massively important, kind of that move from proof of concept right through to mass deployment. And we saw, again, technology expertise, business all coming together to deliver that. And we also saw other areas too, didn’t we, in terms of customer collaboration, market sensing, but also bringing out expertise externally such as analyst relationships too.

Sally Eaves (4:33):

So, all of that coming together was definitely some of my kind of highlights from day one and, kind of, the result of that. It’s that software defined cloud connections that we got to really drill into. I mean, how that works kind of friction free, I would say, with AT&T network services. And it gives those two things, security and reliability hand in hand. And of course, as well, we got to see how voice and reliable collaboration solutions using cloud was really making a massive difference. And again, that integration piece into the AT&T network made that all happen. So, kind of embedded by design springs to mind for me.

Kevin L. Jackson (05:06):

Well, wonder thing customer services is that AT&T really stepped up over the pandemic. In fact, the automation they put into the network resulted in like 97% of all of the managed service requests being resolved in the first interaction. And they had these real, this newly launched express tickets. They were actually able to handle over 30,000 tickets per month. And the focus on customer experience is really outstanding. They have — you can order a dedicated internet or a VPN or the IP Flex in as little as 30 minutes.

Kevin L. Jackson (5:51):

And they’re consultants, you’ve talked a bit about that. They had real expertise from architecting and designing and integration deployment, optimization of the network and specialized knowledge of the industry, you know, supply chain, manufacturing, transportation, retailer, financial services. They really were able to identify issues, take immediate action and satisfy the customer really, really fast.

Sally Eaves (06:26):

Absolutely. It’s that active intelligence, isn’t it? It really is the active intelligence help giving you, kind of, that agency to act based on all the different elements you were describing there. And with real focus to the different verticals too, I think that’s massively important. And again, it brings to the fore, that depth and breadth of expertise alongside the technology itself. And kind of, in other words, it’s teams that are dedicated to serving the business, isn’t it?

Sally Eaves (6:50):

And again, we’ve mentioned already about business continuity and planning. And it really was that responsiveness of AT&T alongside network connectivity for work from home or work from anywhere that think made such a difference. And, you know, we talked about proof points earlier as well. And I think, you know, the investment that went into this was staggering, and it really shows how that pays off is, I think, it was around $650 million that went into a network disaster recovery program alone.

Sally Eaves (07:14):

And again, the difference that made in terms of restorative communications to areas affected by disasters. Obviously, we’ve had the pandemic, but there’s many other examples of world issues at the moment as well. It keeps people connected. It’s a massive, massive difference and huge — hugely important to build trust as well.

Sally Eaves (7:30):

But the other thing, for me, that I think is really interesting here, obviously we can reflect back about business continuity planning, particularly at moments like that, but the needs keep coming, don’t they, you know. As we’re looking ahead, particularly around cybersecurity but other areas as well, these threats, these challenges, they continue to evolve and they need to evolve at pace in terms of how we react and get ahead of that.

Sally Eaves (7:51):

So, for me, we’re seeing, say, organizations needing their infrastructure to be more active. And I would say more than that to be, kind of, the anchoring role, should we say, for protecting the enterprise today. And I, you know, especially in our multicloud world and kind of work from anywhere world, isn’t it? And again, you know, network up, isn’t it, is the way to really embed this, I think.

Kevin L. Jackson (08:09):

Well, you mentioned the — this multicloud world. I mean, if you have an operator across multicloud, it really is the network that enables you to have access to that data. And it was highlighted on day two, that number 594 petabytes of traffic, that’s a million gigabytes. You know, how — I was trying to think — trying to get my head around that. It was like the equivalent of streaming nearly 40,000,000 two-hour long movies. And they’d laid over 60,000 miles of fiber in 2022 alone in the U.S.

Kevin L. Jackson (8:53):

So, that fiber was actually accessible by over 40 million — 4 million business locations across the United States. And the mobility network, you know, the highlight of the whole network is security is the way the synergy between a wireless network and the fiber network. You know, you — with mobility, you get, like, more redundant connectivity than the industry standard.

Sally Eaves (09:29):

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the numbers that you mentioned there, Kevin, at 594, I’m never going to forget that one. Absolutely. That’s emboldened in my brain. But really in this particular case, the numbers do say so much, don’t they? In terms of demonstrating the investment, but also the impact that’s bringing as well. I think for very much, it’s that the phrase that we brought to life. I like to think about this is a new standard for network that what we’re seeing here.

Sally Eaves (9:54):

And it’s, kind of, also a bit of a tech marriage, I would say, in some sorts as well because it’s fiber 5G, the perfect pairing, isn’t it, that we saw there. And I know there’s a lot more stats around this as well. But you know, AT&T has got the largest wireless network in the world, I think it’s 288 million people.

Sally Eaves (10:09):

But also, we’ve got the 10th anniversary here of fiber for AT&T right this year as well. So, if we couple all of the wireless network reach and how that’s being supported and the coverage that brings, but with the fiber advances as well. You know, again, AT&T is now the largest fiber internet provider. I think 4 million business locations, more numbers there as well. And it’s growing, there’s a huge evidence base around that.

Sally Eaves (10:32):

So, yes, this coming together is like perfect pairing, as I like to call it, is really one of complementary strengths, isn’t it? It’s tech and its coverage combined.

Kevin L. Jackson (10:38):

Yes.

Sally Eaves (10:39):

And again, supported by massive investment, $140 billion, I think, between 2018 to 2022 alone. So, exciting trajectory here, I would say.

Kevin L. Jackson (10:48):

Well, I think that is really a differentiator for any business that’s leveraging AT&T. The way that the wireless accessibility and fiber bandwidth, as well as the redundancy that it provides. You know AT&T is — has expanded to over 24,000 cities in the United States. And that reliable wireless network covers almost 3 million square miles. And the 5G network, with that rollout, over 288 million people are covered by 5G.

Kevin L. Jackson (11:31):

Actually, I’m out here in L.A. right now. So, that $5 billion investment in 5G spectrum really is paying off. And as a business customer of AT&T, like I said, that gives you a differentiator in your business.

Sally Eaves (11:52):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And also, when you consider the payoff of that investment as well, so when fiber and 5G come together, again, this is like a multi-decade lifespan. So, you’re investing in your future and your future readiness around connectivity too. So, that’s an investment that pays multiple dividends if you see what it means. So, I think that’s really, really exciting. And again, I love the statue brought to the fore there. Again, I think it really kind of proves what’s happening here.

Sally Eaves (12:17):

And you know, I like to talk about pillars, Kevin, don’t you? It’s one of my —

Kevin L. Jackson (12:20):

Yes.

Sally Eaves (12:20):

— one of my my little things when I’m talking about development —

Kevin L. Jackson (12:21):

You have three.

Sally Eaves (12:23):

I’ve got four. I’ve got four this time.

Kevin L. Jackson (12:25):

Oh, wow.

Sally Eaves (12:27):

Yes, I’ve, I’ve got four pillars that kind of underpin the different areas that we’re talking about. You know, what — what’s underneath this? What’s underneath this new standard for networking? And a couple of them we’ve mentioned a lot already, I think in terms of that next generation technology, and particularly it’s integration, and also the nationwide coverage. But there’s more areas that we can explore as well.

Sally Eaves (12:44):

So, for example, the architecture and making sure, you know, by design from conception, it’s built for flexibility but also resilience as well. But also, how we need to build in backup, that embedded backup, embedded solutions. And again, I think what we’ve seen there, bringing those areas together makes a massive difference. And we’ve seen some, again, some amazing benefits from investing in this. One of which is, for example, major out outages being reduced, the chance of that by around 35%.

Sally Eaves (13:11):

So, again, really, really interesting development. Another one, that really caught my eye too, again, software defined networking and the use of intelligent routing. And again, it’s that quest for agility, isn’t it? It’s giving that active intelligence to do the right decisions to really react to customer demands and do that really consistently in reliability. But also, the use of new — newer emergent technologies coming together, say A.I. and machine learning for network traffic forecasting. And it literally is — I remember this on the day, billions of measurements every single hour that the AT&T network is taking. It’s quite staggering. But yes, I think three words, its continual service improvement, isn’t it, that’s being invested in here which is fantastic to see.

Kevin L. Jackson (13:51):

Yes. And that sort of brings us to — I think it was my favorite day, day three. We got — I got to see — well, we got to see Teresa Leonard with us again. I tell you, she spoke on a biz talk recently. And during, during that discussion, she really focused on the erosion of I.T. silos and how businesses, really, are doing a lot of cross collaboration. And this drives cyber resilience, you know, back to the whole theme of RSA is better together. I mean, if you are collaborating, you can actually improve your cyber security. But key to that, key to collaboration is really the network, and network resilience will harden an organization’s security posture.

Sally Eaves (14:45):

Absolutely. As we said before, you know, security is the network, if you see what I mean. I think that’s where we’re heading. I could not agree more strongly. And particularly when we consider things, in terms of constant change and constant raising of expectations and behaviors and the consistency of increased data traffic and usage as well. Roughly 23% year over year increases in that low. And obviously as we’re moving with great acceleration of 5g, but also to 6g, et cetera in the future as well. The data volume is only going to increase, isn’t it? So, how make the —

Kevin L. Jackson (15:16):

That’s dependents —

Sally Eaves (15:17):

— post optimization of that.

Kevin L. Jackson (15:17):

We depend on that roll [phonetic], you know.

Sally Eaves (15:18):

Massively, yes.

Kevin L. Jackson (15:20):

Yes.

Sally Eaves (15:20):

Oh, gosh. Absolutely, absolutely critical. And you are right there about Teresa, what an amazing, A, tech person, women and tech, but just an amazing ambassador. Her speech at the booth was amazing. I loved the energy. Just really brought everybody around that. And, you know, it really is the embodiment of expertise at those business, I would say. And again, you mentioned there around key themes of the event, and I think the cyber security insight report. The AT&T cybersecurity produced there was super interesting as well. I think it’s about the 13th in a row and got a lot of insights there that can be supportive for the audience too.

Sally Eaves (15:56):

But one that caught my eye from that research is really the fact that enterprises now are looking for that balance in terms of where they’re investing and particularly security and edge, that was kind of one of the big takeaways from that. But as you mentioned as well, how network reliability is absolutely an imperative for business today. And, you know, to access that critical innate data when it’s needed the most, the reliability of 5G came out to the fore.

Sally Eaves (16:20):

And obviously, as we mentioned earlier, 5G embedded by design with inbuilt security. So, those were three of the big areas to come around from that. And maybe one other talking point as well. I’m going to rephrase the narrative. I have a thing about that, kind of, reclaiming narratives. But, you know, we’ve come so much about the cost of investment, don’t we? We do that all the time.

Sally Eaves (16:39):

But I think when it comes to things like security and cybersecurity, I think we should just talk about that in a different way. It’s the cost of insecurity, I think we need to be talking about more, not the other way around, you know? And I think AT&T’s leadership position here is really very impressive. Over a thousand security related patents just speaks volume for the investment in this area, which means so much to so many, you know, not just enterprises, but families, home life, everybody is affected by that. You know, organizations of all sizes are great to see that investment and support.

Kevin L. Jackson (17:09):

I like the way you made that your own, Sally.

Kevin L. Jackson (17:16):

But the other thing is the perimeter, you know, the cyber threat really isn’t increasing, in both — in complexity, especially with the rise of hybrid cloud. And we talked about earlier about how the network is critical when you’re doing multicloud and hybrid I.T. operations. And this has been driven by all the different work from home or work from anywhere options because you have to — you never know where you’re going to be when you’re working. And you never know what device or applications that you need to use.

Kevin L. Jackson (17:58):

And the integrated converge solutions that AT&T has really delivered to the market gives you both that fixed and mobile network to help customers respond quickly to these dynamic changes. You know, like I said — I mean, I really didn’t know I’d be out in L.A. today and — but I’m able to, you know, do this show no matter where I am. This adaptable network with real time vulnerability detection and threat analysis yields better investigative results if something does happen. So, you have these protective actions that are timely and effective to any network security events should an attack occur.

Sally Eaves (18:48):

So, so true. I mean, that adaptability, you made me smile then, Kevin, because I remember a LinkedIn live that we did when I was in a lift.

Kevin L. Jackson (18:57):

Yes, exactly.

Sally Eaves (18:57):

From anywhere, sort of, a whole meaning. Yes. An acceleration in requirements, quite literally there, I think. But it shows — we’ve shown the art the possible made real, we have, haven’t we? Absolutely. And you reminded me of another area that came to the fore, I think, during RSA, but also massively beyond that as well, which is the power of the ecosystem. You know, the power of the collective and collaboration to negate some of these threats and challenges. And one of the —

Kevin L. Jackson (19:21):

Working together again.

Sally Eaves (19:24):

Yes, exactly. Stronger together. Definitely, definitely. And you know, we saw that in one of the sessions, didn’t we? That we went to, for example, the XDR session, which was looking at the impact of security and network operations and the collaboration there. So, we had AT&T business there. But also, we had — sorry, AT&T cybersecurity, but also representatives from SentinelOne and Avanti as well. I loved the collaborative knowledge sharing there. I loved how the alignment of complimentary fits came together, and it was a great vision around the future security.

Sally Eaves (19:53):

So, I wanted to mention that too because again, it’s a great example of right organizations coming together, trusted partnership really benefiting the community and businesses of all sizes. And of course, there was the Bloomberg interview as well. The special report also came out on day three. And I love the focus there.

Sally Eaves (20:11):

And again, if anybody who didn’t see it, definitely recommend catching that. I’m sure we can send a link across a bit later on as well. But broadly speaking, it was looking at the areas of — for example, generative A.I., one of the biggest topics of our time right now. But the impact of that on the cybersecurity industry, but also the impact of cloud, the transformational impact of cloud on business too.

Sally Eaves (20:30):

And what struck me was it was about 70% mark of respondents saying that top of mind is their number one concern. Their leading concern was security. So, it shows really, I think, the elevation of security. It’s almost a level of performance today now, isn’t it? You know, consumers aren’t — not discerning, shall we say, between how they connect. It’s about their connect — their concern is the connection being, you know, reliable and secure and fast. So, I think that’s a really interesting change that came forward to me from that particular interview. You know, enterprise customers need it. They need better solutions that have that reliability, safety, and security. And that’s what AT&T is really focusing on. That need massively came to the fore there. We need that integrating converged solution that AT&T is providing.

Kevin L. Jackson (21:13):

What’s really unique, I think, is how AT&T is embedding the security capabilities into the network. And it gives you visibility across both the wireless and the fixed network, this adaptable network. And as you said before, it’s really powered by machine learning and artificial intelligence. It gives you that real time vulnerability detection and threat analysis. You know, this is really important in today’s dynamic world where, you know, everyone’s against you in the cyber world, where you got to protect yourself. So, this sort of brings us to day four. I tell you, it went so fast when we were there.

Sally Eaves (22:04):

It really did. It was almost as fast as the speed of change that we’re talking about today, isn’t it? It really was. It, kind of, whizzed — it whizzed by. It really, really did. And day four, again, really another interesting day. I think for me, probably the go live, really, around the Wall Street Journal special edition was a particular on that day. Really, really interesting.

Sally Eaves (22:23):

And it just, again, in terms of what kind of came out as key highlights from that, it was network reliability right up there as a C-suite priority today that absolutely came to the fore, but also just how far things have changed. And there were a couple of stats that caught my eye then. So, if we go back in time to 2010, gosh, that seem — that does seem a long time ago now, doesn’t it? But —

Kevin L. Jackson (22:41):

Yes, a long time ago.

Sally Eaves (22:43):

— it was showing kind of almost half and half, so it was about 51% of enterprises using cloud in some form or another. And most critical, applications being kind of locally hosted. So, if we go back to 2010, that’s where we were go back forward, not quite to 2023, but based on that research to 2022, it was a 100% of enterprises dependent on that cloud access and also applications too.

Sally Eaves (23:07):

And alongside that, obviously, as we mentioned earlier, we’ve got the network requirements going up. More and more traffic, more need for speed, as we mentioned during the event. All of those are just accelerating and coming together and coming together. And now, so much more hosting, being remote obviously as well. So, we’ve got these millions of connections needed over thousands of miles to the cloud every single day. And obviously, supporting that is an imperative. It needs that new standard networking we’ve been talking about today.

Sally Eaves (23:33):

And for me, and I know for you too, Kevin, it is this pairing, it is this fiber and I5G coming together. It’s complementary strengths working together, and it’s giving you that more dependent business operations wherever you are. Whether you’re in a lift, whether you’re in Las Vegas, whether you — whether you’re —

Kevin L. Jackson (23:47):

Yes, exactly.

Sally Eaves (23:48):

— you know. It’s bringing us all closer. It’s giving that holistic support end to end. And for me, it’s also a labeling — sorry, enabling count and leveling up, I would describe it as really. So, you’ve got bandwidth coming together with reduced latency and also that intelligent routing of traffic we spoke about earlier too. For me, that is kind of max performance at the maximum available speed, which is where we should be heading. And of course, making sure that’s all integrated in a system that’s delivering all of those different benefits, but has network security embedded from a very start. That’s the holistic coming together for me. And, kind of, day four brought those themes in that converge point, I think.

Kevin L. Jackson (24:23):

Yes, you know, you were on the trip to the past, right? The — it’s kind of hard to imagine any business not leveraging the cloud today, but, you know, because today, if you don’t have cloud, you probably don’t have business. And if you don’t have a network, you don’t have access to the cloud. So, the thing that RSA taught me was the importance of ensuring that your business has a strong network partner capable of providing that secure and reliable network. This combined — combination of fiber and 5G wireless that you can get to your information, get to your application, get to your data, no matter where you are, no matter what device that you’re using. And that you have the bandwidth to do the business that that needs to be done. I really — wow, it’s amazing how business has changed in just short — such a short time.

Sally Eaves (25:33):

Absolutely. I mean, can you imagine, you know, back in 2010 and that example we gave then, the pandemic had happened then and where we were from a connectivity perspective. It’d be a completely different picture, wouldn’t it? I mean, really, really so great examples there, Kevin. And I think as well, recommendation to the audience to have a look at the AT&T business page for more resources then, because whether it’s cloud or I.D. — I.T. disaster recovery or that use of A.I. machine learning we were talking about as well. All those different elements, there’s so many resources there to dive into.

Sally Eaves (26:04):

So, definitely recommend looking at that. And just thinking aloud a little bit more as well about some of these themes coming together. I think it also shows, as well, that importance of trusted partnership for your business in a whole range of areas. So, your network partner kind of needs to bring together, obviously, the security we’ve talked about today, but I’ll do some more S’s.

Sally Eaves (26:21):

So, scalability — I have a thing with that as our audience probably is aware. So, security, absolutely up there. Support and gain that trusted partnership. The experts, you know, business I think really, kind of, embodies that. But also, scalability. Simplicity as well, because that’s another challenge for so many organizations as well. And then I have to mention two that aren’t an S I think, and that would be different.

Kevin L. Jackson (26:44):

Another S.

Sally Eaves (26:45):

I think it’s — yes, we’ve seen a lot of examples of that today. I think it’s so, so important that particularly as needs and expectations and behaviors continue to involve, you know, whether you’re a customer, an employee, a stakeholder partner, we’re seeing all that change. And you need to have a network partner that, kind of, changes with you and helps you grow as you do, and can be act — react to all these different vectors of changed. So, really, really excited about that. And I think AT&T business really generally encapsulates that very vision.

Kevin L. Jackson (27:12):

Here’s another S for you, a superb relationship with AT&T. I mean, they have 147-year —

Sally Eaves (27:18):

I like it. Absolutely.

Kevin L. Jackson (27:19):

140-year heritage, you know, of innovation and it’s set to continue, you know. So, I really appreciate you taking the time with me to discuss all three a day in San Francisco, Sally. Unfortunately, our time is coming to an end. But, you know, I always like to give our guests an opportunity to reach out to the audience so that the audience can reach out to them. So, how could somebody reach — get in touch with you if they have more questions about the importance of security in the network?

Sally Eaves (28:01):

Oh, thank you, Kevin. Always a pleasure. We could always talk for twice as long if not more, could we? Absolutely. And, yes, for everyone watching and listening at the moment, honestly, my door is open. I’d love to continue the conversations that Kevin and I have had today. And honestly, I — I’m available in most places. So, LinkedIn would be a good place. Tomorrow’s Tech Today, the podcast website and YouTube, and across all social media at @sallyeaves.

Kevin L. Jackson (28:25):

I got to say, I mean, I love your podcast. Tomorrow’s Tech Today —

Sally Eaves (28:30):

Thank you.

Kevin L. Jackson (28:30):

— gives you really a — gives you the foresight to understand what you have to prepare for, what you and your C-Suite colleagues should be discussing. So — but in closing, I’d like to invite everyone to check out the wide variety of industry thought leadership that we have here at Digital Transformers and supplychainnow.com. You can find digital Transformers wherever you get your podcast. You can get Tomorrow’s Tech Today there as well. So, be sure just to subscribe to both, you get a twofer. So, on behalf —

Sally Eaves (29:09):

Excellent.

Kevin L. Jackson (29:11):

So, on behalf of the entire team here at Supply Chain Now, this is Kevin L. Jackson wishing all of our listeners a bright and transformational future. We’ll see you next time on Digital Transformers.

Intro/Outro (29:26):

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