Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now,

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton, and Karin Bursa with you here on supply chain and welcome to the supply chain buzz Karin, how are we doing?

Karin Bursa (00:41):

Hey, I’m doing great. I’m still feeling good from that win on Saturday night

Scott Luton (00:46):

Too. In fact, I might just have a picture I might have to share our family was there at the game. She’s talking about the NLCS game six with the Dodgers and the Atlanta Braves and the Atlanta Braves found a way to pull it out. So had the time of our life, current,

Karin Bursa (01:02):

What an experience for the whole family. I am thrilled that you guys were able to be there in person.

Scott Luton (01:08):

Uh, we had a blast and you see all three of our kids are big fans, but this, I don’t know if you can see my point or not in the middle is Gracie. And she probably had the most fun we’ve seen her have in quite some time. So who knows a big old baseball fan? Maybe she’s going to be the next OSI young, who knows, who knows,

Karin Bursa (01:26):

But I see they got the pearls on too. So they were really, really ready for game day,

Scott Luton (01:31):

October, right? John October. Well, Hey, talking about big, big personas in the game, we’ve got two big guests here today. Two big repeat guests for today. Robin Gregg with road sync will be joining us along with logistics Lee class, cow with Bloomberg intelligence. So buckle up folks want to hear from you. You’re going to hear some, uh, some hot takes here. They perhaps, but lots of information that you can act on and we want to hear from you as well. Karin, pretty stoked about our two guests here today, right? Oh yeah.

Karin Bursa (01:59):

I, I can’t wait to hear what they’ve got to share with us today because they’ve always got kind of their, their hand or their finger on the pulse of what’s happening and, uh, I’m sure, I’m sure we’re going to learn a few things.

Scott Luton (02:11):

I am positive of that. So we’re going to say hello to a few folks here momentarily, and then we’re going to dive right into our conversation. So Karin, get my slides ready to go here. Um, I want to first up invite folks to join us tomorrow for an a webinar we’re conducting with ups, Crocs and sun joy. Have you heard about this supply chain squeeze Kerryn?

Karin Bursa (02:37):

Absolutely. And I, I think the word squeeze is the right word for where we are right now. So, uh, that’s bound to be just a, an action packed discussion. Hope everybody can join.

Scott Luton (02:48):

Agreed, agreed. And squeeze is certainly the right word. Well, Hey, we’re going to offer best practices, new ideas for getting through the supply chain. Squeeze, not just in fourth quarter, but certainly as it continues on probably throughout next year. So join us tomorrow at 12 noon, you need to register. You can, you can learn more either via the link in the show notes or@supplychainnow.com and then coming up November 2nd, this is one of our newest webinars Curran. We’ve got booked on November 2nd, 12 noon. We’re going to be talking about, uh, fueling excellent CX customer experience through visibility, diversification, and agility with our friends at rate links. Are you going to be ready for that one? Uh, let’s see here, that’s a week from tomorrow, correct?

Karin Bursa (03:30):

That’s just next week. And that should be a good topic. I love the focus on the customer experience, right? Cause that’s what it all comes down to and where we all need to be focused on providing the best experience, you know, at a cost that we can manage. And right now those costs are getting tough, very difficult in the constrained environment that we’re living in today.

Scott Luton (03:50):

I agreed. And if you can see my pointer again, Nate in the cut has been a repeat guest, uh, previously on his last last room appearance Karin. One of the things he shared that had our community’s hair on fire, he was talking about digital transformation, talking about doing things differently. And he said, it’s time to stop eating donuts in your den and get to work, uh, challenging all the leaders out there to do things differently. So really enjoyed that. So y’all join us November 2nd, 12 noon. And finally, so Azula Ark. So Karin, we all really enjoyed a big project that, that wrapped a month or so ago. And we basically reworked the entire supply chain now website, and that we couldn’t have done without our great friends and partners at Azula arc, right?

Karin Bursa (04:38):

That is true. They were just really terrific to work with and talk about the customer experience. They really delivered and worked closely with Amanda and our team to launch what we think is a really outstanding website experience. So I’d love it. If our listeners could, um, could chime in and let us know if they like the new look and feel, if they’re finding the materials they’re looking for, or if they have any other good ideas for

Scott Luton (05:05):

Excellent point, want to hear from you. And if you have any new ideas, let us know that too. The library function in and of itself since we’ve got 900 a thousand different episodes on there to be able to search by and effectively by a search term. That was wonderful. So today’s show is produced in partnership with our friends at Azu arch course, a leader, as current said in user experiences on and development of websites and custom software applications within, and I really across the supply chain industry. So big, thanks Tuesday here and the top-notch team over at Azule arc, and you can learn more@azooahrq.com. Okay. So Karin let’s say hello to a few folks. I’m really excited about Robin and Lee joining us. Once again, they always bring it they’re as reliable as Santa Claus, the postal service. I think we can still say that, right? And there, there are models of consistency. So, uh, stay tuned in just a minute as we bring them in today. But let’s say, look to see who’s in the audience here today. So she’ll a thanks for joining us via the sky boxes today via LinkedIn once again. So she’ll remind everybody where you’re tuned in from Christopher trailer from Texas. You think that’s a city in Texas.

Karin Bursa (06:19):

I just know you don’t mess with Texas. I don’t know a lot of Texas.

Scott Luton (06:23):

That’s right. Well, Hey Christopher, great to have you here. Be LinkedIn and looking forward to your contributions. We have the one and only Mohit from where Corrine.

Karin Bursa (06:33):

Oh, it’s so good to see you Wichita,

Scott Luton (06:35):

Right? That’s right. The air capital of the world.

Karin Bursa (06:38):

I, I feel like we can really get going. Now if, if he was with us, I have missed you. So I’m glad you’re with us today.

Scott Luton (06:45):

He was wondering when my, he says this next favorite host is going to be here. Good morning. Kurento uh, Hey Mohave. She is here with this Korean versus a one and only so looking forward to your contributions today, Hey, we’re going to be talking about logistics and logistics leaders and all things ports related. And of course we couldn’t do that show without Sylvia, Judy, who’s out there making it happen. Right? Current. She is

Karin Bursa (07:07):

Absolutely. She’s got eyes on the situation.

Scott Luton (07:11):

That’s right. And as we talked about last week, Savannah’s challenges are Charleston’s gains here lately. And some traffic has been, has been pushed a little bit further up the east coast. So Sylvia really looking forward to your observations here today, David is back with us, Dave, and hope this finds you well. Yeah.

Karin Bursa (07:29):

Welcome back, David. It’s good to see ya or good to see your face

Scott Luton (07:34):

Looking sharp, but he’s done some off-roading last weekend. Undoubtedly. Christopher’s confirming. It’s not. Hello, Texas, Dallas, Texas. So great to have you here. Rasa is tuned in from Pakistan via LinkedIn. Great to see you Rosa, and looking forward to your contributions here today. All right, folks, let’s do this so current, are you ready to bring in our star-studded panel here today?

Karin Bursa (08:00):

I am. I can’t wait to hear what they have to share on the bus today. Cause they will definitely have a unique point of view.

Scott Luton (08:07):

Absolutely. Uh, okay. So let’s bring in our featured guests, Robin, Greg CEO with road sync and logistics Lee class, Cal senior analyst, transportation and logistics at Bloomberg intelligence. Hey, Hey Lee Robin. Good afternoon. How are you doing? I’m doing great, Scott. How are you

Robin Gregg (08:25):

Doing great. It’s nice to see you guys. It’s

Scott Luton (08:27):

Great to be here and see you both now. Uh, I got, we already got the cat out of the bag a little bit and appreciate Robin you’re broadcasting from the new road sync global headquarters, right? That’s right.

Robin Gregg (08:38):

Yup. Nope. We have a 31,000 square feet here in Midtown Atlanta and our, you know, basically getting folks back to the office a couple of days a week. So it’s been fantastic.

Scott Luton (08:48):

Well, uh, congrats and all the growth. We’re going to talk about that towards the second half of today’s show and uh, great to have you back enjoyed your work on, take your shot with a, the one only Greg white. So more, more to come on that. And Lee, good afternoon to you. You know, I think every time you join us, it takes him back to the in-person interview. We did, which feels like about seven years ago, but it’s probably just like two years ago. And it was right around the time when I think y’all had gotten a new family dog and I cannot remember the name. How’s the dog doing?

Lee Klaskow (09:19):

It’s Bailey. He’s doing quite well. He’s um, he says he’s in. Yeah, I’m trying to think of a funny joke, but he’s doing fine. He’s a good old,

Scott Luton (09:28):

Okay. Has he? He rules the roost it’s Bailey’s kingdom, right? He’s pretty,

Lee Klaskow (09:34):

Yes. He gets a scrambled egg every morning for breakfast and you know, the family kind of treats him quite well,

Scott Luton (09:41):

Man, but he can’t eat chicken.

Lee Klaskow (09:43):

He can’t eat chicken or poultry that’s so one thing he vomits when he, when he give him that. So we, we try not to

Scott Luton (09:50):

Okay, join us next week is Bailey is our featured guests and we dive in deeper to his story, but Hey Lee, great to have you back. Really enjoy all the wonderful work and analysis you do out in industry. One of our favorite and longest recurring repeat guests. All right. So you speaking of too bad Bailey, isn’t here to weigh in Korean on this first fun question. We’re going to have a, we’re going to pose y’all here today because it is world pasta day. Yes, world pasta day, perhaps a day that challenges your diet unlike ever, never before. So I want to go, I want to go around the panel and let’s kind of get a feel for what your favorite pasta is and, or your favorite place to get it right? Your favorite restaurant. So Robin, I’m going to put you on the spot. You’re going to have to be R on, say Rosie S not the lead off hitter for the Braves that was, uh, in, uh, in L in Rosaria. Thank you, Amanda. From around the corner and down the block was Rosario, uh, in a CS piece of Robin on world pasta day. Tell us what is your favorite?

Robin Gregg (10:52):

We really controversial. So, uh, with, you know, pandemic and everything, I’ve been trying to eat better and not do as many carbs. So I’m going to go doodle. Cause it’s cool to say, right? It’s very cool to say. Yeah, I’m, I’m going, I’m going to do this

Scott Luton (11:11):

Now. Do you, is that something you make at home? Are you good at cooking? Zoodles

Robin Gregg (11:15):

Yeah. I mean, you can’t really mess up zoodles but I will say I do not create the zoodles. I buy the zoodles pre-created so yeah, you can get a little machine that’s just too much. That’s too much, but, and I’m sure this is very short-lived but for now it’s Google’s

Scott Luton (11:31):

Okay. Fair enough. Okay. And one more follow up question that, what do you put on top of your zoodles? What kind of sauce or [inaudible]

Robin Gregg (11:38):

You just do normal, like, you know, red sauce or whatever. It doesn’t mean put pretty much anything on top of it. They treat it like a normal noodle.

Scott Luton (11:46):

Okay. Treat it like a normal noodle. We all want to be treated like a normal noodle. I love that Robin. And really quick little Monday meltdown, Eddie Rozario, Eddie resort. I was thinking like all the others Oreos. Hey, it’s been a long weekend, but Eddie Rosario came through in the clutch over the weekend, like never before Robin. Okay. So the zoodles were starting with zoodles, uh, Lee coming to you for your favorite pasta and or your place again?

Lee Klaskow (12:10):

Well, Robin took the wind out of my sails. I was going to say spaghetti squash, and I thought it was gonna be really funny, but, um, I guess I’ll say in your feed, just cause I like saying it and I’ve made it a couple of times myself and it’s been quite bad when I’ve done it, but I like it ordering it out when I’m loving it. When I got a carb-up that’s what I’ll get.

Scott Luton (12:31):

So do you have a go-to place?

Lee Klaskow (12:34):

I haven’t been to a while, but I used to live in Hoboken. There’s a place called a Margarita’s, which is a pretty good, it’s like a little family owned place. So

Scott Luton (12:42):

Love it. Nice. Those are the best con uh, there’s there’s family recipes passed down generation after generation. So, uh, that sounds like a wonderful place. Okay. So Robin and Lee, kind of a couple of different departures from, from some of the pastas I had between my ears. Uh, Corrine. How about you? What’s your favorite pasta?

Karin Bursa (13:04):

I would say my favorite pasta is probably a good old fashioned lasagna just with, with everything in it. You know, there’s no locale version of that, that, uh, that really makes the, uh, know it makes the final grade. But I did see a really interesting video this morning on the topic of past, uh, pasta about flat packed pasta. So given our logistics focus here today, so the ability to, you know, to package in a smaller package, the same amount of pasta, and this came out of the world economic forum and 67% of pasta, I think today as it’s packaged is, is air right and excess packaging. So with this new flat package, um, approach, you get the same amount of pasta with considerably less packaging and therefore considerably less, less waste. So I thought that was really interesting given that it’s

Scott Luton (14:03):

That’s right. Hey, we’re supply chain nerds. We can’t take a pause long enough to not get back to supply chain and shipping shipping air is expensive. I got to give a little shout out to, we are big fans of fi Vietnamese farm, right? And unfortunately the great recession took our favorite place out of business. A few years back in the Atlanta area, it was on, um, you name it. If you’d like a certain cuisine, that’s a place to go and to get really good, the authentic stuff, but we’re big fans of fall and have been Mohib. As a matter of fact, I was introduced to fi in Wichita, Kansas of all places. So I’ll say those stories for later, but now that we’ve celebrated world pasta day and identified some ways, uh, some supply chain best practices when it comes to pasta. Thank you, Corrine let’s move right along. We’ll say hello to a few folks. So ASMI is with us here today. Be LinkedIn as it mute, let us know where you’re tuned in from. We’d love to know that David has been doing some off-roading and he didn’t get stuck. I had a beautiful night run through the park man. Off-roading at night. That just sounds very adventurous. I don’t know Lee ever done any of that.

Lee Klaskow (15:13):

Well, like, uh, like on a bike or I got a dirt, like a motorcycle from foam on a G when I was a kid. Yes. There was a in high school, a bunch of my buddies had Jeeps and we used to go off-roading I lived in Northern New Jersey and there was a lot of wilderness out there. And, um, yeah, we used to do that and probably some other bad things in the, in those Jeeps. So

Scott Luton (15:35):

Maybe learn something new about, learn something new about Lee, every time Robyn, I got, I pose the same question you and you know, any raw off-roading

Robin Gregg (15:43):

I grew up in West Virginia. There was no onboarding.

Scott Luton (15:48):

Well, according to West Virginia, Robin

Robin Gregg (15:50):

Martinsburg, West Virginia. So, um, if you’re familiar with a Harbor story, West Virginia is the mid point of the Appalachian trail and I grew up 20 minutes away from it.

Scott Luton (15:59):

Okay. We’re gonna have to take a deep dive into y’all’s background. I get the 60 minutes reporters out and investigative reporting reporters out to take a deep dive into Lee and Robyn Sylvia shares this here today, provide a food truck, a hundred percent of tide and a hundred percent, a hundred percent delicious, right on highway 17, right before you turn on to main the main road into Keywan Kiawah island, of course, in the Charleston area and a hundred percent veteran owned business. Semper Fidelis. Love that. Okay. And finally, uh, Sushil ask about the win-win negotiation. Uh, so she’ll, we’ll, we will try to shed some light on that as we kind of work through today’s some of the headlines. So we’re going to talk through so great question there. Everybody’s looking for a win-win for sure. Okay. Lee, Robyn and Kerryn, you all ready to dive into, uh, some heavy lifting to get to work? Sure. All right. So Lee, we’re going to start with a great article, came to us from Bloomberg, and it really focuses on the continuing gridlock challenges across the world’s ports league. Kind of walk us through this a bit and give us your take on what we’re seeing here.

Lee Klaskow (17:04):

Yeah. So, you know, the situation that we’re in today is months, years, and decades in the making, where we are, are, uh, a bunch of ports, uh, especially in Southern California that are extremely, uh, backed up that backup re more recently has been caused by weather it’s been caused by I’m sure everyone remembers the Suez canal being blocked for a while. Uh, COVID lockdowns, just the impact of COVID in general, as it relates to manufacturing consumerism. Now we’re dealing with labor shortages because of COVID cause people are calling out sick and it’s, it’s tough to get people whether it’s on the ports or in the warehouses or on the trucks. And then you have lack of warehouse spaces, inland, you have lack of chassies or the ability to get those Chessies at the various ports. Then you just have really, you know, what we view as a driver shortage or some argument if there truly is a driver shortage, where in the camp with yes, there is a driver shortage, uh, it will continue.

Lee Klaskow (18:03):

And there are a lot of reasons for that, which we can discuss either now or later. But you know, what we’ve seen is, is a huge backup. Um, you know, we look at data from, uh, Marine exchange of Southern California, and there’s about 105 vessels that are in Southern California that are just waiting to unload. The good news is, is that in the next three to five days, there’s going to be a slightly lower than average amount of vessels coming into the ports. One might argue the reason for that is that most of the shifts are tied up. So they’re not able to go back and forth, but you know, it will give, I guess, the ports, um, more time to work through the back the backlog and it’s not going to be that famous. You know, I love Lucy scene with the chocolate conveyor belt.

Lee Klaskow (18:45):

They’re just going to, it’s going to take some time to clear and, you know, w we expect things to remain in a, in a bad situation through the lunar new year. Uh, and then once then that passes because you’ll have a shutdown in Asia, which will benefit, uh, you know, kind of a stop of exports. And it’ll, it’ll allow the ports here in the U S some time to catch up and, and hopefully, uh, they can do, you know, a good job at that. You know, we’ve been pretty vocal about, you know, the Biden administration, you know, what they announced, uh, in their executive order about, you know, having the ports open 24 7 know, as a lot of people know, you know, there’s only one port at long beach that is operating with that third shift. Um, and you know, there’s not a lot of takers that are saying, Hey, we want, wanna, we want to get there. And it’s not, it’s not just the port’s fault. There’s a lot of things that have to happen. It’s a great idea that we’re working towards that, but it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna help the 20, 21.

Scott Luton (19:41):

Okay. A lot of stuff there, a lot of good stuff there from Lee, uh, Robin, give some your, some things that you’re thinking about this morning when you, when you come to the ports.

Robin Gregg (19:51):

Well, first of all, it was shout out to leave for working in lunar new year and to his commentary. So I love that, you know, I think on a, from a, a practical standpoint, I’m thinking about when to buy my Christmas presents for my kids, right? So, you know, that’s the shortages that we’re all experiencing as consumers are more likely going to get worse and feel more acute in the, in the Q4. So I think a lot of people should be thinking about it and planning ahead if they’re not already, you know, for our customers, uh, you know, they are experiencing, they’re experiencing similar things that actually have been disrupting the ports most notably the labor shortages. And, you know, I think that our warehouse customers just can’t get the right people and keep them in place. Um, and for us, a lot of our customers are in food, so that’s even more disturbing. But I think the big thing that struck me by what has happened with the ports is I wonder if this isn’t sort of our new world, right. And sort of these things are gonna start to happen more frequently just because of, of, you know, the demands on the infrastructure that’s in place today. And the fact that it’s just really not equipped to handle sort of re the shocks that are very, very likely to continue to happen in terms of weather and labor shortages and, um, the next pandemic, hopefully not, but you never know.

Scott Luton (21:06):

Right. And Robin, I think that that’s interesting thought provoking commentary because more and more and faster and faster, and next hour, you know, a two day delivery was fine, same week would deliver was fine, but the, the mans keep getting, placing a bigger and bigger burden on what many feel are still at least here in states yesterday’s infrastructure, right. CareNow and circle back to you before we, a couple of things I want to point out where some of your thoughts in,

Karin Bursa (21:35):

Oh, I totally agree with, with Lee’s point of view with the backlog and the equipment that’s out of position now. So we’re going to be well into 2022 before we see that start to subside. And that is if we don’t have another significant disruption, as Robin was saying, whether it’s, you know, a health crisis or some other, um, crisis that impacts global moves, but it’s important that we remember that those backup problems are not just in Southern California. We’re seeing backups and Savannah and Charleston as well. Certainly not as acute as what we’re seeing on the west coast, but, um, so many goods come in free west coast ports, but, um, the last I looked, the Savannah port was backed up maybe by about 25 to 30 ships. Right. So similar problem, not quite the same scale as what we’re experiencing. So I think Robin’s right. We’ve got to just figure out how to be more efficient and change some of the process around that load and unload process.

Scott Luton (22:36):

Yep. Excellent point a couple of points there in the article, RBC capital markets estimates that 77% of ports worldwide are experiencing significant delays. So it’s not just a couple that we always hear about, and it also points out the S and P 500 companies. Uh, this may have been article, I’m not I’m on the sources somewhere else, but S and P 500 companies mentioned the phrase supply chain, a record 3000 times on earnings calls a couple of weeks ago. And yes, they evidently keep, keep those, those, uh, uh, those metrics tracked. And then to Robyn, to your point, really, to all y’all’s points, because this is not going to be fixed overnight. It’s not gonna be fixed in the year. Uh, uh, federal reserve chair to Rome Powell said on Friday that we should all be ready for global supply chain pains to continue throughout 2022 at a minimum.

Scott Luton (23:23):

Okay. I want to share a few comments here from the sky boxes. Sushil, you’re talking about a win-win situation or negotiation where Peter says, if I can find his quick comment here, celebrate Orthodox Christmas on January 6th and save hundreds and free up free up the burden. Some of the strain on supply chain, all of that Sylvia Judy says my first officer Altais of the Brussels express happy Lloyd’s first LNG vessel is already seven weeks behind schedule from Europe to Asia. Uh, let’s see her, but she says, at least Hapag-Lloyd is wise and turning to less congested ports like Charleston in Jacksonville to lessen the burden on Savannah, Savannah. Yep. Sheldon says supply chains. Can’t outperform the physical limitations, homemade gifts again this year, Sylvia and Sylvia, Robyn and Lee, just in case and Korean. I think, you know, this Sylvia is the jelly queen of the Eastern coast, new new title here. So, uh, her friends and family are going to be in a great situation with homemade gifts. Again, this year, Sylvia let us know which jams and jellies that you’ll be working on this season. And Mohave says more demand, expectation, more innovation, more pay love it. And that is a, um, interesting emoji. I think that’s dollar signs

Karin Bursa (24:49):

For eyes. They’re

Scott Luton (24:51):

Pulling a Bailey there. Li

Lee Klaskow (24:54):

It’s got a whole, might be a good gift for Christmas this year, given the run-up in the, in the price of coal, uh, as a commodity, it’s up, uh, well over double digits. So if you give your children whole and they’re stocking, and actually it’s probably better than, uh, treasury bonds right now. That’s not an investment advice by the way.

Karin Bursa (25:14):

Yeah. I’ll tell my children that I’ll tell that metal and that, that actually the coal is a good gift this year.

Scott Luton (25:20):

Uh, Lee, I love your dead pan delivery of that. So-so nicely worked at also by the way, Korean and Robin Lee also worked in, I love Lucy, which is one of our favorite shows around here. Give you a little heads up over the weekend. I read the article, there’s a new movie coming out called being the Ricardo’s and it stars Nicole Kidman and as Lucy and evidently she is, it’s going to be her next Oscar worthy role, big, great positive reviews coming out already. So being the Ricardo’s, you’ll be on the lookout for that. All right. And Delano like that laugh out loud Cole for my stockings. All right. So are we ready to move right along? Anyone else have one final comment or thought around, uh, no shortage of activities going on across global ports?

Karin Bursa (26:09):

No, I would. I would just say, you know, Robin mentioned holiday shopping. I would just say buy now, um, because I’m not sure the bottlenecks are really going to dissipate in time for all of those great pre-holiday sales that we are accustomed to

Scott Luton (26:24):

Excellent point.

Lee Klaskow (26:26):

Yeah. And there were, there was, there was also some reporting on Bloomberg. I read earlier today that because of that, a lot of retailers aren’t having as much in inventory on hand, there’s probably gonna be a lot less discounting this year. So to wait for those final sales might be a fruitless. So

Scott Luton (26:43):

You might be better off buying earlier at full price. Well, all this and, and came from the Bloomberg intelligence articles. You all check that out. Port gridlock, stretches, supply chain, our supply lines thin and blow for economies. Okay. Moving right along a little less scary. Perhaps what we’re talking about here is we continue to track Amazon’s rapid growth in us, parcel shipping. So get this folks and this really, it shouldn’t be much of a surprise to anyone here, according to the Pitney Bowes parcel shipping index. Amazon has now surpassed FedEx in terms of volume. So a little more detail. So this came to us via max Garland at supply chain DOB outstanding resource, the big A’s market share for us parcel volume rose to 21% in 2020, right. That’s just above FedEx, but just below ups, which stood at 24% last year. But get this FedEx ups, Amazon, and the us postal service dominate the market, they make up 99% of all the market share. So we hear about different startups looking to break into that 1% and grow up, but we’ll see how that shakes out. So Robin, I’ll come to you first, hear your thoughts around Amazon logistics and their continuing growth into taking more market share.

Robin Gregg (28:01):

Yeah, no, I mean, I think, I think the thing that is sort of lost when you think about how much market share they’ve they’ve gained is the fact that the industry is growing overall at this very, very rapid rate. So that growth happened in an environment where I think every single one of the legacy players had double digit year over year growth, right? So it’s not, it’s not that Amazon is taking from the legacy players at all. It’s just that the market growth is so it’s just on fire. Right. And everybody’s growing. And so, I mean, it’s, it is phenomenal and impressive that Amazon has created a whole new logistics entity. And it it’s just a space of a couple of years, but I think what’s even just as amazing as the fact that they’re also have structurally changed consumer expectations on when they’re going to get their goods that is just driving the, you know, the is even higher for everybody. Right. So my question going forward is like, what happens as we continue this tear? I mean, we we’ve talked a little about, about the ports and the physical limitations there, but like us infrastructure, I don’t know if it can sustain double digit plus growth in, uh, in parcel delivery indefinitely. And I don’t see consumer habits changing. Right. And so I do think there is just this amazing, amazing opportunity for technology to increase efficiency and it’s going to have to happen. Like, you know, we just can’t sustain what we’re doing without, without that

Scott Luton (29:32):

Breaking point, for sure. Well, well, I’m gonna come to you, uh, Lee next and then Korean, but really quick over the weekend, I read that the Erie canal was, uh, opened this week, way back when, and, you know, talking about things that have to change, you know, traffic on the Erie canal was, was mule powered for quite some time. And, and when it flipped over to the, you know, gas-powered boats, it increased the speed and it, it let’s lay the foundation for 15 hours on the Erie canal. Do y’all remember that song 15 hours in the air? You can do you really Robin really? Yeah. Can you, can you sing it for us

Robin Gregg (30:13):

Now?

Scott Luton (30:14):

So kidding aside as much of a shock and really that example doesn’t do it justice, but as much of a shock is going from mule powered to, um, gas powered or locomotive maybe is this, this gauntlet that’s been thrown down by Amazon for years now, and we’re still dealing as a global industry of how, how to deal with it and not in it. It’s a moving target. You know, the gauntlet was initially like we talked about two days and then a day and then two hours. So Robin, it’s really fascinating and we’re going to have to find a way to meaningfully invest our infrastructure. All right. So Lee coming to you next. So talking about, uh, again, this, this article here in the, in the report out, Amazon logistics, moving past FedEx, even if the, if the market is growing all in all your thoughts.

Lee Klaskow (31:02):

Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with all the points that Robin made, but you know, what I would also add is that is, is Amazon business really business that FedEx or ups wants because it’s very low margin business versus higher margin business that they can get from small to midsize, uh e-tailers that are out there, you know, FedEx pretty much walked away from Amazon, or they may be walked away from each other, depending on who you talk to in 2019, and FedEx wanted to focus more on that more profitable market versus, you know, just getting a lot of volume at thin margins. I mean, ups still is heavily exposed, uh, to Amazon, but I bet you over time, that percentage, uh, is going to gradually go away, not maybe not to zero, but they’re going to become less reliant on it because, you know, there’s a new CEO, relatively new CEO ups Carrollton may, and she’s, you know, really focused on improving margins and improving the overall company.

Lee Klaskow (31:56):

And, you know, there, there are better markets of, for a FedEx and ups than Amazon, you know, and there are also a lot of other players coming, coming up, like, you know, LaserShip, uh, that that’s one that’s, uh, you know, been on our radar recently. You know, they do a lot of final mile stuff. They did it a merger. So they, now they have east coast and west coast, uh, capabilities. They seem to, you know, they need to grow more to be a truly, uh, uh, national threat to the FedEx’s and UPS’s of the world. But you know, that article doesn’t surprise me. And, you know, it’s really being driven like Robyn pointed out on the explosive growth that Amazon has had as a company and the fact that they do all their, their, their own delivery. And if you think about it, I mean, Amazon logistics is just a very different being, cause they don’t really need to make money. They just need to cover costs where a FedEx and ups have to make money.

Scott Luton (32:47):

Excellent point Lee, excellent point. Of course, Amazon’s also making quite a living off the data side of things. So Kerryn, when we talk about Amazon logistics and these thoughts that Robin and Lee are sharing, what are some of your thoughts?

Karin Bursa (33:02):

Uh, I really appreciate both perspectives and, and that Amazon has a broader business portfolio that they can look at margin contribution from. I do agree that, you know, Amazon changed the consumer’s expectation of, you know, how quick I can get whatever it is I’m ordering. Um, and, and we have taken that into the business world too. So from a business, a business perspective, if you don’t have that same visibility and reliability of your inbound and outbound shipments, I mean, that’s an expectation that we should take into those relationships as well. So I think that that has changed. I will say that my Amazon shipments recently have not been coming as promptly as they used to. So instead of one or two day, some of my shipments have been more three and four days. So I don’t know if that’s a blip in their service in my area, but, um, but, uh, you know, there may be a few growing challenges let’s say in, in some of their distribution.

Scott Luton (33:59):

Yeah. There’s so much opportunity there. So despite all of the innovation, the success and the growth that Amazon’s had, there’s so much opportunity. So with that said, I should also say Lee, I read over the weekend from Bloomberg, that Amazon is looking to purchase 10 Airbus, a three 30 dash 300 aircraft. Now I’m the aircraft expert, but I understand that’s the water body. That’s better suited for air cargo as they’re looking to maybe take some of the priority skews may be back in control. Any, any comments there, Lee? Yeah.

Lee Klaskow (34:34):

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of related to what I said before. I mean, their main goal is to lower their cost of delivering stuff. And, you know, to do that, they’re going to bring some stuff in house. They’re going to leverage that network with some of their, uh, you know, the third-party shippers and put their stuff in it. But again, at the end of the day, their air fleet still going to be, you know, very small relative to FedEx and ups. We continue, we expect it to continue to grow as their business grows. And as again, as they take more things in, if you think of Walmart, I mean, Walmart operates one of the biggest trucking fleets, uh, in, in, in the U S but there’s still huge buyers of purchase transportation from a, for hire trucking companies. This is just what Amazon’s doing just a lot quicker. And I guess it’s a little sexier because it’s e-commerce versus, you know, going to a big box retailer.

Scott Luton (35:24):

Uh, well, we do have an aircraft expert, uh, in the sky box is the one only Peter Boulet all night and all day. Good lift, excellent range on an a three 30. How about that? And AC did full air, did full cargo conversions on B seven 70 sevens. All right. Couple of comments here really quick. Mohib says supply chain of coal is already pleaded for this season. Next season shipment will be delayed as well. Lee is the joke that keeps on giving, right? Your Cole comments. So thank you for that today. Sheldon says Amazon logistics market share is inextricably linked to the growth of their marketplace. Amazon logistics is part of a value added FedEx, et cetera, is valued charging, which gives a better value prop. This is why they’ve started to offer services on the open market. Eventually he says, they’ll have to spin off Amazon logistics to make it sustainable. Hmm. All right. Do y’all agree with that? Robin Lee quick, thumbs up, thumbs down Kerryn.

Karin Bursa (36:24):

Um, I think we’re going to see a spinoff of AWS before we see a spinoff of Amazon logistics. Um, I think that that’s a business that can stand on its own and has grown exponentially as well. Okay.

Robin Gregg (36:36):

I agree with that. And I actually think it kind of goes the other way. I think a lot of other people who have the right scale are gonna start thinking about bringing their capacity in house as well to have sort of captive capacity because it’s very important strategically, especially when you think about the consumer expectations to be able to control delivery.

Scott Luton (36:52):

Excellent point. Okay. Korean, Robin, and Lee. Thank you all for that quick response there. All right. So as much as I want to continue diving into this fascinating conversation to come on, anything with the big a, you can find days and days of fodder to talk about supply chain stuff with, but Kerryn, I want to switch over to you recently attended the new, the Nulogy exchange conference. And it seems like y’all had a little passionate conversation around this notion of how to force supply chain partnerships for sheer success. So us a couple of quick takeaways from that,

Karin Bursa (37:25):

It’s a different verb. It’s how to forge supply partnerships for shares and stuff that was not part of the business.

Scott Luton (37:35):

Yes. But some days you really want to force it rather than forge it. Y’all got to right thumbs up on that, right.

Karin Bursa (37:41):

It was, it was actually, it was really a fantastic panel discussion. If you guys are not familiar with Nulogy, I encourage you to check them out. Um, because they’re a provider of digital supply chain solutions that really connect trading partners and their focus is in the consumer products sector. So lots of food and beverage, but connecting those co-manufacturers co-packers three PLS so that you’re communicating and collaborating more effectively. Uh, but the panel was fantastic. So Kim Faulkner with Colgate Palmolive, Charles Lou, who is with, uh, way travel, but he’s been with Walmart in the past and Casper sleep. And then David Warrick, who, um, is one of the key individuals in the Microsoft supply chain. So for their devices. Right? So it was really interesting to learn more about how they’re working with trading partners and where the opportunities are for

Scott Luton (38:33):

Growth, love that. And, you know, we like to maintain a healthy sense of humor around here. So thank you for correcting me Kerryn Sylvia, may the forge be with you? All right. Oh goodness. See one little, one little typo. That’s what happens Robin and Lee. So speaking of forging, supply chain partnerships, creative partnerships, innovative partnerships, Robin, any quick on, I know a lot of things you are doing is, is highly innovative and it’s fueling your growth, which has been really cool to see any quick thought there, Robin

Robin Gregg (39:11):

Forging partnerships in general. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you know, because that the, the sort of legacy systems supporting the ecosystem are just so fragmented and diverse, you kind of have to, right. You have to be willing to work with everyone. That’s definitely been our philosophy, which is very partner friendly. And, you know, I think that a lot of companies aren’t going to change out a lot of the systems that they’re using to, to run their business on the software solutions that they’re using. So I think you gotta be prepared to work with a bunch of different people. So I think partnerships is the way to go. It gives you credibility and it makes you have faster reach into the industry.

Scott Luton (39:47):

Excellent point Robin. And I think challenging that old assumption, that system, you know, certain systems, certain technologies, certain partners are not going to work. I think we’ve been seeing a lot of re-inventing, it’s a lot of challenging of those assumptions and reinventing and to find new opportunities. So it sounds like you’re seeing some of that too. Robin Lee, any, any observations there on these new creative, innovative partnerships across supply chain,

Lee Klaskow (40:12):

You know, nothing really of substance to add. Just, I mean, collaboration is key and, and everything that we do, uh, whether it’s, we’re talking about supply chains or whether it’s your own business or your own personal life. So, I mean, uh, collaboration is key, uh, no matter what, what, what, what you’re doing. So, uh, no real value add to over what, uh, and Robin added. Right?

Scott Luton (40:31):

Thank you for that quick common here for Sasha. He agrees with Korean here in the UAE. Amazon service levels have been depleted too. Not sure why. Okay. Well, we’ll get our, our research team cracking to see where else that may, they may be seeing that. All right. So collaboration is key. We all agree there and we’re seeing some really cool, innovative collaboration that is being forged across supply chain. Thank you for, for sharing that grant. Speaking of collaboration, it appears Lee that Bloomberg and truckstop.com partnered together on this truckload survey. Can you share a couple, two things, give us a little background around sorta like when it came out and maybe the purpose of it, and then give us a couple of key takeaways if you would.

Lee Klaskow (41:17):

Sure. So I might begin the exact timing around what we’ve been doing this for about 10 years, uh, with maybe eight years with trucks up.com. Uh, for those that don’t know, trucks.com is one of the largest load boards, uh, in the U S and, you know, we do a quarterly survey as relates to the market, and we also do a semi-annual survey as it relates to the freight brokerage market, uh, trucks, the people, the sample size, um, tends to, you know, be around a hundred and twenty five, two hundred fifty owner operators. They usually own a one, one truck. So it’s usually, you know, the person that driving the truck is the person that owns is his or her business. And those are the people we’re going out with. And we just ask them every quarter, you know, where do you think, uh, growth is habited in terms of loads and where do you think rates are headed over the next six months?

Lee Klaskow (42:06):

Um, you know, the responses have been overwhelmingly bullish positive as it relates to load growth, but 62% expect a load growth to increase over the next six months, slightly, um, uh, down from last year at 64%, but it’s still, I’m sorry, it’s it’s downs, uh, slightly from the second quarter. So, you know, it’s a slightly less positive, but it still remains extremely positive. And on the rate side, uh, actually that’s gotten even more bullish about 55% believe that rates are going to increase. And only 13% of believe that rates are going to go down over the next six months. Um, you know, and, and that’s just really been driven by an extremely tight market. They have a, you know, independent of the survey. They have a, uh, weekly, uh, index for relative supply and demand and they call it their MDI index. That index is up about 180% on average this year.

Lee Klaskow (43:01):

And what that tells us is that the trucking market remains extremely tight. That’s from pushing, uh, spot rates up around 40% this year. And, you know, part of my job is I cover a lot of publicly traded companies and follow their earnings. And a lot of them are reported earnings over the last a week and a half, and they’ve all beaten expectations. And a lot of that has to do with these large trucking companies is the rates that they’re able to generate. I mean, JB hunt, uh, they generate around 29% increase in contractual rates in, in, in the, uh, in the third quarter. So, you know, obviously all of that is not going to the bottom line. They’re have to pay up for drivers. Um, they have a lot of inflationary pressures that they’re dealing with, and they’re trying to pass that off to the, to, to the shippers and given the tight market, they’re really able to do that. Um, you know, trucking companies in general. So

Scott Luton (43:50):

Robin we’ll come to you for a lot, a lot of stuff there, a lot of things that Lee is tracking some of your thoughts of where the market’s headed,

Robin Gregg (43:57):

Uh, and I’m not surprised by the results of the study. And I think that, you know, it’s accurately reflects where I think it’s going to head, you know, I don’t think that I think there’s going to be its continued demand and it’s going to assist sort of sustain what has been over the last couple of quarters. So, um, yeah, no surprises there for me. Yep.

Scott Luton (44:15):

And Corinne your thoughts.

Karin Bursa (44:17):

Um, I would just say, um, I’m surprised at the good news. It sounded Lee, if I’m, if I’m interpreting what you said correctly, that margins are continuing at the same level or better if we’ve got some out beats on earnings. So, um, with rising costs and the constraints we have with drivers and, and, you know, just personnel in general across the supply chain, uh, the good news that I heard and all of that is despite these challenges, we are seeing some margin improvement.

Lee Klaskow (44:45):

Yeah. Yeah. Good news for trucking companies. So, you know, not a hundred percent of the rate increases, don’t go just to offset the cost. Some of it does trickle down to the operating income or EBIT line. Uh, and so you’re, you’re seeing, you know, better than expected, um, growth growth for

Scott Luton (45:03):

Excellent. Alright. So we’re going to have a fast and furious finish. I hate to leave this subject so quickly, but all three of y’all have had big updates, big projects, uh, sharing partner friendly keyword of the day. Mohib I love that Peter says strategic partnerships are the key to all success collaborations. A must has been. So for decades, only way he says to ride out a storm. Then Peter also adds gouging is king right now, but buyers have a long memory. Alright. So as we start to wrap, I want to get an update from each of y’all and again, Robin and Lee. Great to have you, uh, have you back. We appreciate our collaboration and partnerships we have with both of you and of course, Kerryn. Uh, it’s great to see, Tech-Talk continue to blow up. Let’s start with you Robin. So Rhode sink talk about growth, man. Lots of growth in recent months and over the last year or so new flagship offices in Midtown, Atlanta, AKA supply chain, city. So, uh, give us what should folks know about road sync and what’s going on now?

Robin Gregg (46:02):

Yeah, just a reminder for folks. What we do is we automate the business expenses in the transportation industry. So we, where we started is that we’ve been focused on making sure that there’s visibility and automation around a routine driver expenses. So, you know, some of the things that are getting flowed up, you know, into some of these costs that we were just talking about, you know, shippers and carriers need better visibility over these expenses. And then also they just need to be easier to get paid. So people don’t get stuck waiting to have a vehicle repaired or to have their vehicle unloaded. So

Scott Luton (46:34):

Robin really quick, I love that because it’s like, y’all are the keeper of the DX, that driver experience. And it’s so important to be loving on those folks right now, especially during these ever challenging times. So I appreciate you refreshing our memory, what all the good things that that road sinks up to.

Robin Gregg (46:51):

So the big thing for us in addition to hiring, so we are hiring like mad, uh, developers as well as sales folks. Um, but we also are gonna launch a road sync driver, uh, later this month, which is our first driver focused app. Uh, currently our F our app has been focused on the merchants or the vendors that support the trucking industry. Um, but now we’re, we have a solution for drivers to basically catalog their expenses and receipts pay easier, and then also be able to submit their expenses to any employer easily within our app. So very excited about being able to launch that and to your point, the driver experience, it’s just an easier to make it easy. We easier way to make it easy, whatever, but, you know, one of the pieces of research we found is over half of drivers were telling us that they were submitting in paper, receipts and stuff, you know, scanning it in with their phone. So there definitely are easier ways to do that.

Scott Luton (47:44):

Yeah, I’m with you. It takes me back to the company that brought me to Atlanta, uh, forever ago was, uh, we had to bundle up our receipts and FedEx and into the corporate office every month and, and, and including writing and all out on the, on a manual form. Oh, like how I was, I was trying to twist the CFO’s arm to move to some kind of early scanning thing just to save us all and all the offices some hours, but there’s always a better way. And Robin, I love that. So congrats on the new app and folks road sync is hiring a number of different roles and how can folks, uh, let us know what URL, I think.com it’s just that easy folks. All right. So Lee logistics, Lee, I love the new, so you can find Lee class gal, the one only on Twitter now, uh, he’s given into the dark side and joined us on Twitter. Uh, and Lee, there’s so much, you can add to that, uh, the more serious side of Twitter. So I’m looking forward to already follow you, looking forward to your contributions, but, uh, what’s the latest and greatest at Bloomberg intelligence.

Lee Klaskow (48:46):

And now we’re gearing up towards, uh, our 20, 22 and beyond outlooks, uh, for, at least for me, for the railroad trucking Marine shipping and third-party logistics spaces. So, uh, here at Bloomberg intelligence, I touch upon all those major sub segments. And also we’re in the process of rolling out to our institutional clients, uh, uh, calculators, which will allow them to model companies, uh, a lot easier, uh, with the great data that’s on Bloomberg coupled with, uh, some Excel functionality.

Scott Luton (49:15):

And we’re saying logistics lead, because that is your new Twitter handle, right?

Lee Klaskow (49:19):

Yeah. I stumbled upon this, uh, this new network called Twitter recently. And, um, I thought I’d get involved with, it seemed kind of interesting. So I’ve been tweeting, I believe. And, um, so I only have like, like, like 50 followers and I’m probably being exaggerated to the upside. So, um, if you want to stroke my ego, uh, please follow me on Twitter.

Scott Luton (49:44):

Hey, if you love supply chain and logistics and transportation, and a sense of humor, make sure you follow logistics Lee, he’s one of the best out there. So I appreciate your time and we’re gonna, we’re gonna do one more wrap around the panel to make sure folks know how to connect with each of you. Corrine, ManTech talk has been blowing up, and I think I’ve got a graphic here. Let’s see here. This was your last episode with Ben cubit with Transplace. So either about this or about tech talk in general, what’s been going on.

Karin Bursa (50:13):

Yeah, so we’re having a lot of fun on tech talk and our listeners are growing, right? So all the supply chain, movers and shakers that are interested in all things digital, as it applies to the supply chain, um, we had a great conversation about what can you take of right taking control in this disrupted world and spoiler alert. Ben told us that you should probably throw out your supply chain playbook and, uh, start, start working on a new playbook, uh, not just for the coming quarter, but, uh, for the coming 20, 22 period. So you’ve got to be more agile. You’re not going to get there with spreadsheets and, uh, you’re going to have to do a lot more planning and, um, and become a better customer, right? So, uh, it’s, it’s a terrible time to be a bad customer. Uh, and people will have long memories. I think Peter belay just said something to that effect as well. So lots going on there. And then just to talk about what Robin mentioned with the holiday shopping season, coming up, um, getting ready to hear from Dr. Glenn Richie, who is in the, um, the supply chain management program at Auburn university war Eagle. Um, and, uh, we’re going to talk about the upcoming holiday season and what expectations we should have as consumers in dealing with some of these disruptions and, uh, what might be ongoing again well into 2022.

Scott Luton (51:36):

I love that. And I bet there’s lots of, there’s a talent pipeline coming into Auburn that Mike can help out road sync. We will see a really quick, one more comment from the sky box is Sylvia talks about, I just had to move a load from Norfolk to Ohio from the time of quote to execution. My rate increased $3,700. My customer thinks I’m a thief, tough time out there challenging.

Karin Bursa (51:59):

Uh, and we know it’s not you. It is the wild wild west. And, uh, hopefully with many of the things Lee mentioned earlier, we’ll see some of that volume start coming down in the coming weeks and the lunar new year, um, and, and get some relief to get those assets repositioned. Uh, but it is, it is crazy right now.

Scott Luton (52:21):

Agreed, agreed. And,

Lee Klaskow (52:23):

And it’s got it. I guess, just add, you know, if the federal mandate for vaccines happens for companies with a hundred more employees, I mean, that’s also going to negatively impact, uh, trucking supply. There’s a lot, a lot of truckers, at least for, from a few trucking executives that I’ve spoken to over the last couple of weeks, you know, are kind of concerned that they might lose a lot of drivers, uh, because of the, uh, the mandated vaccine, uh, which is interesting within itself. Uh, but you know, it could keep those trucking rates at high because of a tight capacity

Scott Luton (52:55):

Curveballs keep coming for sure. Hey, quick heads up from the production team. Big, thanks to Amanda Jayda, Allie and clay behind the scenes, helping us make today’s live stream version of the supply chain buzz happen. Hey, we’re gonna, we’re gonna wrap with all four of us here in the stream for the sake of time, and I want to make sure folks know how to connect with our panelists. So we’ll sign off altogether. Robin, Robin, Greg CEO of road sync, a road, sync.com. How can folks connect with you.

Robin Gregg (53:21):

So check us out@roadsink.com. I also am via email@robinduckrigatroadsync.com.

Scott Luton (53:29):

Awesome. Thank you so much for what you do and congrats on all the success and look forward to the next edition of, uh, take your shot with you and Greg and the team there. All right. Lee class, Cal, how can folks connect with you?

Lee Klaskow (53:44):

Uh, I’m on LinkedIn. My spelling of my name is right, right there, there. So, um, and I’m also on Twitter at, uh, logistics li

Scott Luton (53:54):

And how can I connect with Bailey

Lee Klaskow (53:59):

Adult dog?

Scott Luton (54:01):

Bailey doesn’t have an agent yet next time. Uh, he or she will regardless, uh, appreciate all that you do. And I appreciate the, the down to earth manner in what, the way you present information that we need to know in between the ears. So big, thanks Lee class, cow. And then finally, Karin bursa Kerryn. You’ve got no shortage of projects. Love to see what tech talks up to, but that’s just one of them. How can folks connect with crim versus

Karin Bursa (54:24):

Yeah, of course, LinkedIn is quick and easy. Love. If you could connect with me there also be sure to follow tech talk and be sure to subscribe like Lee. I’m looking for subscribers as well. So, um, would love to get your input and feedback on some of their recent episodes and recommendations, maybe on topics you’d like me to tackle in the future.

Scott Luton (54:43):

Wonderful. Well, big thanks to Kerryn bursa, Robin, Greg and Lee class gal wide ranging and fun discussion here today. I appreciate your, your appearance and your time on the supply chain bus. Hey folks, uh, make sure you connect with Corrine, Robin and Lee. Make sure you find supply chain now, wherever you get your podcasts from click the subscribe. So you don’t miss conversations just like this. And Hey, let us know what you think of our new website, supply chain now.com. It’s just that easy. Uh, your feedback was critical to the, uh, the, uh, reinvention of the site and really appreciate y’all keep that coming and on behalf of the entire team here. Big, thanks again. Jayda Amanda Allen clay behind the scenes. Big thanks to our panelists, Kerryn Robin Lee. Of course, all the folks that showed up in sky boxes to, uh, share good stuff here today. Hey yes, the forge and the force are both with you. Have a wonderful rest of your week. Most importantly, do good. Give forward. Be the changes needed. Go Braves. We’ll see. Next time. Right back here on supply chain now. Thanks for buddy.

Intro/Outro (55:46):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain now.