Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning. Scott Luton and Greg White with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s show. Greg, how you doing?

Greg White (00:39):

I’m doing great. How are you doing, Scott?

Scott Luton (00:40):

Doing fantastic. Still getting through. You know, these changing temperatures here in the Atlanta area, they get us every year, so we’re fighting through some head colds, I think.

Greg White (00:51):

Oh, oh. That’s going to take some editing and posts.

Scott Luton (00:54):

It might, it might, but, you know, what helps clear my head is outstanding thought leadership from folks making it happen across global supply chain. That’s exactly what we have here today, Greg. So –

Greg White (01:08):

Nice segue. That is beautiful.

Scott Luton (01:09):

We’ve done this a time or a thousand, right. Today’s episode, we’re going to be interviewing a couple of business leaders from an organization that helps the world’s top brands solve some of the most complex problems in supply chain inventory, omnichannel and more, so stay tuned, Greg, and all our listeners, for what promises to be an intriguing and informative conversation. Greg, you’re ready to go?

Greg White (01:31):

Let’s do this.

Scott Luton (01:33):

All right. Well, with all that said, we’ll welcome in our featured guests here today. We have Rob Schaefer, Vice President TMS Sales with Manhattan Associates, and his colleague Gregg Lanyard, Product Management Director for TMS as well. So, Gregg and Rob, good morning.

Rob Schaefer (01:48):

Good Morning. Looking forward –

Gregg Lanyard (01:48):

Good Morning. Good to be here.

Scott Luton (01:50):

Yeah. It is great to see you both. We’ve enjoyed our warm-up conversation that we always have. Those are some of the best conversations. We got to record more of those, Greg.

Greg White (01:59):

We know where these cats are from for sure, right?

Scott Luton (02:01):

Right. That’s right. We got –

Greg White (02:03):

New York and Pittsburgh in the house.

Scott Luton (02:06):

The OG of TMS, the TMS world, which, Greg, you alluded to in recent years has blown up tremendously, but also sports-wise, we know that Gregg is a big time Yankee fan and I think Rob is in Columbus but I believe he’s a big Pirates fan, I believe. We’re going to dive deeper into that, Greg, sound good?

Greg White (02:24):

Yeah. That’s right. Let’s find out. Let’s find out the important things like the food they eat and the teams they root for.

Scott Luton (02:32):

And, the music they play, but –

Greg White (02:33):

That’s [inaudible].

Scott Luton (02:34):

Hold that aside. Really appreciate the time we’ve already spent with Rob and Gregg. So, let’s get know you both first. So, let’s start with you, Rob. We would love to know where you grew up and you got to give us the goods on Rob Schaefer’s upbringing.

Rob Schaefer (02:47):

Well, I grew up in a small suburb outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. All right. So, kind of a blue collar upbringing very much so. Right? When I was growing up in Pittsburgh, it was still very much an industrial city that’s kind of made transition over the year since then, but that was kind of my upbringing. I grew up with a, speaking of sports, a very good football team in the ’70s. So, we get to transition from the Pirates and head straight to the Steelers, if you’d like.

Greg White (03:13):

Yeah. That’s good. That’s fine.

Scott Luton (03:14):

That’s right. The iron curtain, right?

Greg White (03:18):

Yeah. That’s right.

Rob Schaefer (03:18):

Steel curtain.

Scott Luton (03:19):

Steel curtain. Sorry.

Greg White (03:21):

Iron curtain was Soviet Union.

Scott Luton (03:22):

That’s right. They played a pretty good defense too, but you’re referring to the ’70s when the Steelers dominated Terry Bradshaw and they won what two or three Super Bowls, right Rob?

Rob Schaefer (03:35):

That will be four back then.

Scott Luton (03:35):

Four?

Greg White (03:37):

Yeah.

Rob Schaefer (03:39):

Yeah. So –

Greg White (03:39):

They beat everybody.

Rob Schaefer (03:41):

It was a great time to grow up in Pittsburgh and to be a Steeler fan. And so, you know, I kind of grew up with that blue collar work ethic. You know, the Steelers are very much a team sport guy. And, I think that has served me extremely well in not only the sales career that I chose but also in supply chain. Right? Because supply chain is very much a team sport as I think we’re all realizing now if we didn’t realize it before. Right? So, I think my background has helped me with that and helps me relate to folks and the issues and the problem solving that we’re all working on now. So, that’s kind of who I am and where I come from.

Scott Luton (04:17):

Rob, that’s a beautiful answer. And, one quick follow-up, food. When I think of Primanti Brothers, I think it is –

Greg White (04:23):

Primanti Brothers. Yeah.

Scott Luton (04:24):

Primanti Brothers. What was, from a food standpoint when your family, you know, broke bread, what’s one thing that was part of your upbringing that you wish you go have it for lunch today?

Rob Schaefer (04:36):

Oh, that’s an interesting question. Frankly, as a kid, I probably lived on cheeseburgers. I really did still do today. I do appreciate a good cheeseburger and fries. Right. I try to stick – stay away from it as much as I can these days, but that was always my go-to.

Scott Luton (04:52):

Love it. Hey, all in moderation. We can certainly enjoy it and spurge from time to time. I love that answer and I love a good cheeseburger. Let’s switch over to you, Gregg. Let’s talk about where you grew up and just like, Rob, did you got to give us the goods on your upbringing.

Gregg Lanyard (05:09):

Yeah. Sounds good. So, I actually am in Pittsburgh, as you mentioned, but I grew up in Central Jersey often unknown to most because you typically hear folks from North Jersey or South Jersey, but I was from Central Jersey and the town was called Woodbridge and it’s sort of right where the turnpike and the Parkway cross. So, a lot of people have been through it, but that’s where I was from. And, you know, I often look back and say, you know, it was the ideal place to grow up. I was 30 minutes South of New York City. So, hop on a train and be in New York, in the big city for, you know, all that excitement, or I could hop on the same train and be south and on the Jersey Shore –

Rob Schaefer (05:54):

Jersey Shore, yeah.

Gregg Lanyard (05:55):

30 minutes down below, right? So, it was pretty ideal for a kid to grow up in that area. I got to see the world a little bit.

Scott Luton (06:03):

Man. Well, did your folks, you know, when you were still teenager or may even younger, did they let you jump on a train and headed to New York City on your own?

Gregg Lanyard (06:12):

That’s exactly what we did. And, it’s incredibly crazy because I’d never let my kids do what we did before, you know, when we were growing up, but, yeah, that was it. I mean, it was about $7 and 50 cents to hop on a train and you could be in Madison Square Garden in 30 minutes. So, we got to watch all the big east tournaments, right, in high school. We got to go see the Rangers play, and the same thing heading south, we would just grab our, you know, 20 bucks and a towel and spend the day in the Jenkinson’s Boardwalk and the beach. It was fantastic. It’s a great life.

Scott Luton (06:44):

Sounds like it. I wish we could go back. All right. So, one quick follow-up, and then I’m going to pass the baton to Greg as we get down to business. So, we’ve established Rob, of course, a big Steelers fan. They had the glory years and, you know, they’ve won obviously a couple of Super Bowls since the ’70s and those legendary teams, and baseball, you’re a big Yankees fan, I believe, Gregg. Right?

Gregg Lanyard (07:02):

So, yes, definitely grew up a Yankee fan. When I moved to Pittsburgh, I will say, try to, you know, take on the home team, very difficult thing to do here.

Scott Luton (07:12):

It is.

Gregg Lanyard (07:13):

But, yes, the glory days of the Yankees growing up were certainly fun. And, Don Mattingly was my guy, being a lefty myself and, you know, got to see a lot of games at Yankee Stadium, the old and the new.

Scott Luton (07:28):

Oh, I love it. Well, hey, you know, the bad years make the good years, all that much more special. And, it sounds like both of y’all have some athletic prowess that we’ll have to touch on maybe in a follow-up episode, but welcome to you, both. And, Greg, where are we going next with Rob and Gregg?

Greg White (07:44):

Well, eventually you guys had to quit hanging out at ball games and the beach and get a job. So, I’m curious, you know, you both landed at Manhattan now, but I’m curious maybe a couple of different roles or job experiences that you had that just really impacted you. Gregg, let’s start with you.

Gregg Lanyard (08:04):

Yeah. Sure. So, you know, I think looking back across my career, you know, my first job out of school was to be a TMS consultant. Right? Transportation management system. Basically, I was trained on how to use one of these, you know, software applications. And, you know, within like two or three months out of college, I was jumping on an airplane and, you know, training folks at companies that were doing very manual processes. And, I really, you know, look back at that and I just got a great sense for how companies operate, the different levels of complexity or not that they were, you know, managing their operations. And, it was an eye opener. Right? And, it was great sort of, for me, not only to see, you know, corporate wide how companies operate, but, man, I got to travel a lot on the company’s dime around the globe to see cities that, you know, I loved and I got back to over the years.

Gregg Lanyard (09:04):

So, a lot of great things came out of my first four years out of school and traveling around the world and meeting folks and seeing how companies operate. It was pretty, pretty lucky I think. And, you know, well, I’m sure we’ll get into this, but the fact that it just happened to be supply chain management, you know, and it was just starting to take off there, that’s sort of the other side of things that are still there today. So, it tells us a lot of, you know, how things have progressed.

Greg White (09:31):

We were joking pre-show about you being OGs of TMS. And, I mean, if you started straight out of college, you are legit, a made man. So, I’m curious as you kind of traveled around the world, any people or experiences or places that where you had that kind of eye-opening eureka moment, something that just really shaped the way you look at things today.

Gregg Lanyard (09:58):

Yeah. Certainly, a lot of, you know, just comparison and contrasting of, you know, small to large companies and how they operated and, you know, globally from South America to Europe to North America, sort of where folks were on the sort of progression scale of supply chain. But, you know, back then we were having to explain what supply chain management was and why software was sort of, you know, important part of that, and kind of the cool thing now is we really don’t have to do that much anymore. It’s big enough and in the news and all of that that folks understand it and appreciate it. But I would think, you know, I’d say that that’s sort of the eureka moment for me that this thing called supply chain management was legit, was probably back in like 1997, 98, when I was starting to think about, you know, getting off the road from that consulting gig.

Gregg Lanyard (10:51):

And, we had all of these, at the time, were the big five consulting firms, you know, the Arthur Andersen’s and Deloitte Touche, PricewaterhouseCoopers, all those guys. They were beating down on our doors to get a piece of, you know, that supply chain pie. And, they all wanted to partner with us. They all wanted in on our projects. And, you know, they were very, very well-respected large company out there that were investing heavily in this space. And, I think, you know, for me, that was sort of that moment where I said, yeah, this has got some staying power.

Greg White (11:28):

That’s really interesting. That’s about the time that I got into technology is around 95, 96, 97. So, really interesting. Well, Rob, while Gregg was gallivanting around the planet, I sense that you’re up kind of rise through careers and supply chain was a little bit more knuckle busting, maybe blue collar, as you said, kind of talking about your Pittsburgh upbringing, but tell us a little bit about how you got into supply chain, TMS, or maybe some of the folks or the roles or the people who kind of helped shape your worldview.

Rob Schaefer (12:05):

Sure. So, I’ve been in sales for about 36 years. And, I’ve been in software sales for the last probably 23. And, I got into supply chain probably about 17 years ago. Right? So, up until about 17 years ago, my view of the world was probably still more, you know, small town focused, right. I didn’t really appreciate the larger – how big the world is and frankly now how small the world is. So, when I got into supply chain software, about 17 years ago, I was doing both planning and execution and then was introduced to multinational companies and was able to understand, you know, how long the supply chains are, right, and how small the world is and how everybody around the world faces the same problems. Right? I mean, this isn’t U.S. centric type stuff, right? I mean, everybody is waking up around the world, trying to get their job done, faced with very similar problems with certain nuances by country or by industry, that sort of stuff.

Rob Schaefer (13:03):

So, I learned to appreciate being in supply chain software, how this really is that team sport that I was talking about before and how, you know, disruptions here or there have, you know, a very long and far reaching consequences type of thing. But, you know, all those consequences and problems that I’ve been trying to solve for people for 17 years have really kind of been, you know, company specific or industry specific, those sorts of things. And then, when you asked the question about that eureka moment, I mean, frankly mine has been with this pandemic, right? Because everything, you know, I’ve tried to do in the past is really, as I said, been industry or company specific. Now, it’s literally global. I mean, people talk about this perfect storm and you finally – you know, I’ve come to the realization of how fragile this whole supply chain thing is. Right?

Rob Schaefer (13:56):

I mean, again, before if there was a disruption that only affected a certain industry or a certain port or whatever, right, I mean, it was rather minimized. It was a big deal for the company that was experiencing that. But what we’re going through now is just, I mean, literally it’s global across, you know, every facet of supply chain. So, really, you know, this has been my eureka moment to really truly understand how really important supply chain is and the ability to manage it.

Scott Luton (14:26):

Hey, really quick, Greg, if I can butt in. 36, 23, 17. Rob, you’ve got at least one book in yet. I bet you’ve got stories coming out your ears that would make a Hollywood blockbuster. Any thought of ever, you know, documenting some of those experience?

Rob Schaefer (14:42):

No, actually, no, I got to protect the innocent, I think. Maybe, someday when I retire. I don’t know.

Scott Luton (14:50):

Awesome. Good stuff. I bet your family benefits in the meantime.

Rob Schaefer (14:54):

Yes.

Greg White (14:56):

Yeah. They get to hear a lot of stories around the table. Is that what you’re thinking?

Scott Luton (14:59):

Yes.

Greg White (15:00):

I actually love that.

Rob Schaefer (15:00):

Well, they actually want to meet everybody. Right? ‘Cause they just hear me talking to people like on Zoom and Teams and they hear the names and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, they don’t get to meet anybody, so someday.

Greg White (15:14):

Well, so, interesting – actually that was actually the inverse of what I expected. I mean, Gregg, you’ve actually been in supply chain longer. Right? Rob came from other industries, which is a good thing, I think. I’d be curious, Gregg, what your perspective is, but I think it’s really good that we’re getting a lot of people from outside supply chain into the craft because it gives us all these new perspectives. Some of them really are naive perspectives, which you need to make big jumps in progress. So, just curious, what’s your kind of take on that, Gregg?

Gregg Lanyard (15:49):

Yeah. I agree, Greg. You know, I think the supply chain space, you know, is a space where, you know, you have to know a little bit of finance. You have to know a little bit of, you know, marketing. You have to know a little bit of, you know, everything. So, there’s so much that it touches in an organization, you know, when you cross supply and demand, purchasing and procurement, right. There’s so many functions in a company packaging, right, and not just shipping and warehousing. There are so many areas that it touches that I think, you know, to bring folks in, let’s say, it’s a pretty pragmatic and practical problem that we’re trying to solve as a whole. Right? It’s not easy, but you know, it’s kind of, find folks who are problem-solvers. You know, certainly we, Rob and I, work with a lot of engineers here. You know, software engineers like to solve problems and, you know, that’s what we do. So, finding folks that are good people, persons that are problem-solvers, you know. There’s a general fit in supply chain management for, you know, those types of folks.

Greg White (17:04):

Yeah. I agree. I think that’s a great perspective. All right. So, eventually you guys both landed at Manhattan, and, Rob, since you dropped the F word, fragility, I want to start with you about what, you know –

Rob Schaefer (17:19):

You scared me there for a minute.

Greg White (17:20):

What is your role at the Manhattan because I think that’s a great perspective. That’s – you know, we talk a lot about resilience and I think that’s the optimistic viewpoint of what we really need to be thinking about, which is the fragility of the supply chain, which is in your sort of epiphany moment you recognize, and it’s interesting that you chose that word kind of to identify the state of the supply chain, which is constant, right. It’s not new, you know, for those of us that have been doing it forever. It’s not new that the supply chain is fragile. It’s just new to the rest of the world. And, I think it’s new to those of us who are relatively new to supply chain as well. So, tell us a little bit about what you do at Manhattan and, you know, kind of – some of the problems probably in regard to that fragility that you’re seeing, Rob.

Rob Schaefer (18:11):

Sure. So, I’m kind of like the chief TMS evangelist here at Manhattan, right? I mean, that’s my thing. I talk to customers and prospects every day and what I try to do, which is difficult for a sales guy, is listen, right, as much as I possibly can. You know, as opposed to just throwing solutions against a wall, right, you need to understand everybody’s unique. You know, what part of the supply chain, what part of their process is the customer having issues with. What do they need to address? How do you quantify them? You know, all those sorts of things, right. And once we understand that, then it’s that evangelizing that I spoke of earlier. Right? But, you know, when I’m talking to people, you know, the common themes that I hear in this current state is, you know, visibility, capacity and optimization, right.

Rob Schaefer (19:04):

Everybody is on a different continuum as to whether they have any sort of technology to help them with their supply chain planning and execution. But in today’s world, everybody wants that visibility in terms of not just, “Hey, where’s my stuff.” Right? But visibility into, you know, capacity, right. I mean, you know, people have contracted rates, but they’re not being honored or, you know, loads are being declined and everybody’s scrambling for that container or, you know, that truck, all those sorts of things. So, it’s visibility into all of those things, right, just not where the product is. And, it’s that ability to go out and find that capacity. You know, with these unprecedented shortages, you know, people used to be able to do this by phone, right. They just don’t have enough employees to be able to do it anymore, right.

Rob Schaefer (19:52):

I mean, people just need to up their game in terms of technology and be able to automate that search for capacity. Right? And then, once they get it to be able to optimize all of that and to be able to look across all the different modes and say, “Hey, I know this is going to be late, but I’ve got to get it there. I know it’s going to be more expensive. What’s the implication of that?” Right? And, just to be able to automate that entire process and not just within your own four walls, right. You have to have technology that talks to all your trading partners as well. So, the common theme that I’m really hearing is, “Hey, you know, I need the visibility, not only to where my stuff is, but the capacity and benchmark rates and all that kind of stuff.” And then, I need to be able to use that information to be able to optimize, right, in terms of how I’m going to react to these potential disruptions. And, that’s what I probably hear the most stuff.

Greg White (20:39):

Really interesting, that combination, because I think visibility is obviously, especially when you talk to anyone who’s associated with TMS, that’s really what they’re after, because that’s really what was missing, I think, is where’s my stuff and when will it be here and how sure can I be that it will arrive when you say. And, Gregg, you know, this has been a problem for a long time, but we’ve had people we call expediters or whatever those people we lock in that cold dark room who just are constantly making calls, trying to figure out whether it’s going to ship on time. If it’s shipped on time, did it make the ship right? Did it fall off the ship? Is it stuck in port? Is it detained somewhere or whatever? Every one of those is a point of fragility. So, those are – that’s really interesting and a common theme that people are thinking. You know, people used to think, well, this has been my perspective. So, Gregg, I’m going to ask you what you do, but also maybe you can roll into this question a little bit too.

Greg White (21:49):

People used to think about optimization first, let’s try to predict what’s going to sell, and optimization was sort of a euphemism for minimizing costs. So, I’m curious what your perspective is. But before you give us that, tell us kind of – we know what your title is, right? You’re a product management director for TMS, but what the heck does that mean that you do every day? And, since you are out there, kind of in the forefront, trying to figure out what the solutions ought to do, I’m interested in what you’re seeing in the marketplace today as well.

Gregg Lanyard (22:21):

Yeah. Sure. So, I have ownership of our product strategy and roadmap. That’s probably first and foremost. So, you know, what does that mean? It means I work with our customers. I work with Rob and the sales team to understand what the market is asking for. You know, what we need to build in our software or who we need to partner with to bring better solutions to that customer base. So, that’s really the critical item on my, you know, responsibility list. But I also have ownership for, you know, not only the sort of the build decisions, but also the partnership decisions. So, you know, who do we partner with? Who do we integrate with? How do we go to market with them? Product marketing is also, you know, a big piece of what I do. So, you know, Rob is the sales guy, but I certainly am also a sales person for the product both internally and externally. I own analyst relations as well for the products set and think, you know, probably lastly, you know, just strategic customer support, get involve in a lot of problem solving on that side as well.

Gregg Lanyard (23:35):

And then, yeah, you asked about sort of my perspective on – well, you covered – you know, Rob covered visibility and an execution, and then you asked planning and optimization and it’s an interesting conversation. And, just like, I think, you know, the transportation world is cyclical with, you know, supply and demand, so is the importance and the value that companies see from the planning, you know, value proposition versus the execution proposition for a system like a TMS. And, it’s true right now visibility seems to be king, you know, in terms of what folks are looking for and wanting and needing. And, that’s certainly, you know, as we’ve all heard over the years, a result of the Amazon effect of us being able to see our, you know, home delivery shipments and where they are and when they’re coming and now that same, you know, need and want and ask is part of the business, the business world.

Gregg Lanyard (24:34):

So, visibility, where’s my stuff, you know, is critical. But the optimization piece, you know, is not to be forgotten because I think that the critical takeaway is that both of those are unnecessary components because visibility and where’s my stuff and understanding the history of transit times and delays and other things that are happening on the execution side then need to be fed into sort of the next generation or next iteration of optimization. So, we build a better plan next time based on historical past, right? So, there’s no, you know, pushing one aside. You know, TMS does it all. The definition of TMS has certainly changed and expanded over the last two decades and it continues to in terms of what people want and expect from, you know, our supply chain systems. So, you know, I think they’re both important and depending on where you are on that sort of spectrum of manual versus automation, you know, you focus on one, but you then focus on the other.

Greg White (25:47):

Yeah. I think that’s a good point. I mean, optimization is theoretical. Execution is action in the heat of the moment, right. You know, what we’ve either predicted or didn’t predict actually happens and how you respond to that.

Gregg Lanyard (26:03):

That’s right. I mean, listen, there’s no getting away from the fact that transportation planners, you know, operations folks are going to be firefighters, right. They’ve always been firefighters. They’re always reacting to change and trying to do the best they can. But, you know, when you bring software and systems into the picture, then they’re there to help and to enable better planning and hence better execution.

Greg White (26:27):

Yeah. And, learning from that past, I think that’s an important point that you raised there is, yeah, you know, we saw this happen, we’ve seen this happen a lot. We need to consider this more, right, more completely in the future. So, I think that [inaudible]

Gregg Lanyard (26:43):

Gosh, I don’t know if we want to go there, but, right, I mean, there’s so many – there’s so much better information available to the planning process today than there was 10, 20 years ago. Right. You can incorporate a lot of that history, a lot of data points into the plan that, you know, again, they improve your overall operations, so, and it’s a cycle. You know, better planning leads to better execution, which leads to better planning.

Scott Luton (27:08):

If only the expectations from the consumer were the same from a decade or so ago, right, Gregg? It’ll be all easy.

Greg White (27:14):

[Inaudible] in consumer’s eyes. Right? I mean, first of all, before 2020, 95% of people didn’t know what supply chain is, and I can tell you that for certain, from sitting down at dinners with people and they’d say what do you do for a living? And, I would say supply chain, and their eyes would just completely glaze over. They didn’t even ask what it was. [Inaudible].

Scott Luton (27:35):

You were in the [inaudible] of business.

Greg White (27:37):

Yeah.

Gregg Lanyard (27:38):

And, trust me, I get a lot of friends telling me to fix all the problems. Right?

Greg White (27:41):

Yeah. Yeah. And, everybody’s an expert now, Gregg, aren’t they?

Gregg Lanyard (27:44):

Yeah. Where they expect me to be. Right?

Greg White (27:47):

Well, so, as Rob mentioned, you know, those three things are there other big problems? ‘Cause I know you see it probably from a little bit different perspective than Rob though. I’m sure tightly coordinated. But are there other big issues that you’re seeing out there in supply chain that jump out at you?

Gregg Lanyard (28:06):

Yeah. I mean, you know, there are, right. I mean, listen, what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to simplify operations. We’re trying to help people make more intelligent, better decisions. We’re trying to provide an infrastructure to be adaptable, right. Because, as was noted, change happens, right, and it’s going to continue to happen. It’s going to continue to happen at a faster pace than it’s happened before. So, you know, all of the things that we try to do are, you know, enhancing that. At the end of the day, we’re reducing transportation costs. We’re improving service. We’re improving collaboration and connectivity, which is, you know, something that, you know, is critical to operations, transportation specifically, right. We deal with our carrier base, right. We have to interact with them on a constant basis. We deal with a supplier base that we have to interact on a constant – interact with on a constant basis. So, all of those things, you know, are critical in the world of, you know, inbound and outbound transportation. So, yeah, we’re trying to address and solve all those problems and they’re constantly changing problems. So, all right, I left you guys speechless.

Scott Luton (29:23):

No. Well, you are poetic as you walk through these problems there, Gregg. Very nicely put. There’s so much to talk about in an hour long conversation and that’s usually the challenge we have. I want to bring Rob back in. You know, we’re talking about problems that Manhattan Associates and y’all’s team are helping to solve. And, Rob, as you stated earlier, the three things you’re hearing about all the time, visibility, capacity, and optimization. I think I got those three right. Right? Good things come in threes. So, in a second or two, we’re going to move into kind of going more global. You now, what are some of your observations when you survey global supply chain? But your final comments, Rob, when it comes to the problems that you and your team are helping customers solve.

Rob Schaefer (30:11):

All I can say, we’re meeting with as many, you know, customers, as we can, right, listening to their individual issues and trying to make the appropriate recommendation based upon what those issues happen to be. Right? So, some of them might just be that visibility. Some others might be the optimization or capacity. But, yeah, I mean, that’s basically what we’re doing every day and everybody is somewhat unique. But in today’s situation, we’re sharing a lot of the same problems.

Scott Luton (30:40):

Wonderful. Okay. And, no shortage of problems for sure. Let’s talk about then – I want to shift gears a bit and now that we’ve got a better sense of what you and the Manhattan Associates teams are doing, some of the types of problems you’re solving, some of what your customers are seeing, let’s move into your observations when you take a step back and you survey this really uniquely challenging environment that we’re all navigating through right now in 2021. You know, we’ve heard it put as the supply chain squeeze. And, unfortunately as much – despite all of our desires, Gregg, to G’s, to problem solve, right, and fix it, it’s going to persist for the foreseeable future. Many folks are saying, you know, through 2022 and beyond, and certainly some of these core elements that are really systemic. But whether some of these challenges or just other industry observations, I’d love to kind of open up the top of your head and peer into your mind and see where – you know, what is keeping you up at night or where are you – what are you tracking more than others across the landscape? And, Rob, I’m going to stick with you for a second. What are you looking at when it comes to global trade?

Rob Schaefer (31:50):

So, you know, first, at this point in time, I guess where we are in the issue that we find ourselves in, right, and we’ve kind of, I hope we’re getting past it to a point, right. But at first it was just, how do you react to all these issues? Right? I mean, the issue at hand, how do I get product from point A to point B, that sort of stuff. I think people now are looking at more strategically resiliency for the future. How do I plan for this in the future and make sure that I have processes in place to make my organization resilient and efficient, right? And efficient not only in terms of just how do I plan and optimize from a TMS perspective, but efficient in terms of how do I get the most and use my assets to their fullest extent whether they be human assets or physical assets in terms of trucks and warehouses and ships and containers and all those sorts of things.

Rob Schaefer (32:41):

So, I think we’re starting to see more people saying, “Okay, this was bad. We’re going to get through it. We always do, but we need to be prepared for the future.” Right? So, that’s that whole resiliency and efficiency. And then from there, it kind of comes down, “Okay, well, how do I do that?” Right? And then, that gets into extensibility and agility, right? To be resilient, I need to be agile. To be agile, I need to have a platform that’s extensible, because as Gregg had said it’s more than just a TMS and the information that’s housed in that TMS. It’s being able to reach out to your partner base, right, your visibility players and your digital freight brokers and whoever you trade with to bring as much information back in house and make it as actionable as possible. Right? And then, that kind of waterfalls right into that whole visibility and capacity thing. Right? So, we’re trying to pull as much information into the logistics system as possible by having an extensible platform and therefore making the organization more resilient and efficient moving forward.

Scott Luton (33:44):

Wonderful. And, a couple of things I heard there and, Greg White, I would love for your thoughts as well. And, a future-proofing is very important these days, even if it’s – you’re talking – the future you’re talking about is tomorrow ’cause you don’t know what tomorrow is going to bring. Bring in as much within our control as we can, which is really important. And then, what both of y’all have spoken to, Gregg and Rob, is, you know, building that infrastructure that you can’t optimize, right, rather than willy-nilly, bringing as much discipline and framework and guideposts infrastructure, which will create the visibility to what you do address and how you prioritize what you addressed and went. But, Greg White, your thoughts on what Rob just shared. And, I’m going to come to Gregg.

Greg White (34:27):

You know, the acknowledgement of all of these fragilities is the first thing that we have to do. And then, we have to continually learn from what did happen versus what the, let’s say, risk, right, or opportunity was, and then, start to, as you know, as Gregg Lanyard was discussing earlier and Rob just talked about is take that knowledge and deploy it in the technology. And, technology is also a key here. When you say willy-nilly, I immediately think of pen and paper, spreadsheets, faxes, things like that. But, you know, so we have to capture all of that knowledge and then employ that in vis-a-vis data into technology to help us learn and to continually improve as we go forward in this crazy time. I mean, look, you know, the truth is there have always been disruptions in supply chain and old gangsters like Gregg and me and you, Scott, have been dealing with this since the ’90s when you didn’t have much choice but spreadsheet or rudimentary technology and pen and paper, right.

Greg White (35:44):

But now there are a number of dynamics at play that should accelerate this. One, the presence of copious amounts of data, right? Things like AI and Blockchain and other technologies that do the learning that we’re talking about and then can deploy that. And, the recognition by the marketplace, particularly the consumer, as you said earlier, Scott, who’s putting pressure on the supply chain to just get it here. Right?

Scott Luton (36:12):

Right. Tremendous.

Greg White (36:14):

And, their awareness that supply chain is responsible for that. That it’s not some magic black box that just makes the stuff appear on the shelf. And, they’re starting to learn the lesson that they can’t count on it to be on the shelf. And, when things fail, people analyze and break down systems to understand why they fail. And then, they start to evaluate the companies that they shop with or whatever as to their ability to perform so that awareness that Gregg, you and I and Scott and others in supply – lifers in supply chain had been begging for that awareness, that recognition that those accolades also come with judgment. And, we are there now, so.

Scott Luton (37:02):

Certainly, and you’re illustrating the point of just how supply chains become a differentiator. So, the work that Gregg Lanyard and Rob and the Manhattan Associates team, you’re really – we talked about it on the front end, you know, working with the world’s top brands, brands that consumers are facing, supply chain’s a big part of what that means.

Scott Luton (37:21):

All right. So, one final cut, and, Gregg, I’m coming to you. So, Rob, kind of shares some of the things he’s tracking. Gregg Lanyard, we’ll come to you next. But I want to – something that has – y’all have been speaking to really kind of hit me as little – a small micro eureka moment. We’re getting through the great resignation right now, right? We’ve heard that phrase a lot. There’s a lot of burnout. Folks are getting out of industry, right. And, they’re taking a lot of tribal knowledge with them. It would strike me that the work you’re doing to, you know, to invest and implement and provide this infrastructure. That’s also a tribal knowledge play, right, where you’re gathering and documenting and digitally documenting best practices organizations might would lose otherwise. So, Gregg Lanyard, I’m going to you next, your thoughts around that and then walk us through other observations you have with the industry.

Gregg Lanyard (38:10):

Yeah. Sure. So, you know, listen, I think, if I can go back to Greg White’s comments and call out a shout out to the Meat Loaf quote back, if you want to bring some music into this conversation, you took the words right out of my mouth. Right? Guys, Meat Loaf fans, take me back to the heyday. But, yeah, I mean –

Scott Luton (38:34):

What’s the name of the tune?

Greg White (38:32):

No, don’t make this [inaudible], please.

Scott Luton (38:35):

What’s the name of the tune?

Greg White (38:37):

Yeah. That’s it.

Gregg Lanyard (38:38):

You took the word out of my mouth.

Greg White (38:38):

That’s the Meat Loaf song, yeah. I thought you wanted him to sing it.

Scott Luton (38:41):

I’m not a Meat Loaf fan.

Gregg Lanyard (38:45):

[Inaudible] But, yeah, I mean, you know, the idea that change is constant, right, and the thing that we’re dealing with today, the companies are dealing with today and the fact that, you know, just being automated. We talked about manual versus automation and just doing things faster. It’s just not enough anymore, right? It’s not enough to stay ahead of the game. So, you know, the flexibility, the adaptability and the agility like Rob talked about is what you need to not only survive but to thrive in this ever-changing world. So, you know, I think – but there’s always going to be some level of or close to equilibrium, right. There’s always imbalances, but getting to equilibrium is I think that the critical piece, and that means, you know, and this was said by Greg as well, what you optimize yesterday or how you optimize yesterday isn’t always the right answer today because of the changing links and nodes in your supply chain, right. And, there’s constant change happening.

Gregg Lanyard (39:59):

And that – you know, that might mean origin and destination shipping points. It might mean rates, right. It might be modes or carriers that have gone out of business. There’s so many different things that are changing every day. And that’s why, you know, as Rob said earlier, you need sort of that infrastructure to be able to support that change. And, when the equilibrium comes back around or when things change back to the way they were or changed in a new direction, you just have to be ready for it. And, that’s, you know, what we try to do for our customers certainly every day. I don’t know if that answers your question directly, but that’s kind of [inaudible].

Scott Luton (40:36):

I like it. It sounds better than the answer to my question. But speak to, if you would just, you know, as folks as exiting industry, I think of the thousands of reasons why to embrace digital transformation in a meaningful, successful, practical way, not the cliché, because everyone’s talking about that or talking about resilience or whatever, I think part of that one little aspect of that is capturing that tribal knowledge of what you may lose. So, speak to that just for a second, Gregg, based on conversations you’re having.

Gregg Lanyard (41:09):

Yeah. Well, I mean, there’s no doubt that, you know, there’s a good upbringing of talent. I’ll say that first on the positive side. You know, there’s more schools, as I have a senior in high school right now and we’re looking around, you know, at colleges for him. He may not go the route of logistics and supply chain management, but I can tell you as I’m looking at the schools he’s looking at always go over to the business school and to see if there’s a supply chain management major. Because back in the day, when I was studying it, you know, there weren’t many, and my goodness, there’s, you know, a hundred X, the number of schools that have that as a major. So, the good news is it’s being represented and it’s being recognized. And, I think the challenge is always, you know, convincing young kids that this is an area for the future. I certainly look back and say, “Boy, I got pretty lucky.” I didn’t know much about it when I, when I chose [Inaudible] knowledge but –

Greg White (42:03):

It’s funny how it work, isn’t it? Right? You’ll never get in now, would you?

Gregg Lanyard (42:05):

Yeah. Yeah.

Greg White (42:06):

I know that we’ve been –

Gregg Lanyard (42:07):

Right, right. But, yeah, you know, and to your point earlier that you made, Scott, I think, you know, there’s a lot of different backgrounds that can be successful in supply chain management. So, I don’t think you have to study it in college. I think it’s great to have that background. You know, I learned the business side at college and I learned the technology side on the job. Right? And, I think that works both ways. You can do either or in today’s world. And, I think that, for the young folks out there that are listening, there’s still a huge and exciting future in this space because of the constant change that we talked about. Right?

Scott Luton (42:49):

Absolutely. I agree.

Gregg Lanyard (42:50):

And, it’s pretty exciting, you know. There’s a lot of – there’s the ability to be innovative, right? There’s not always innovation in the industry. You know, being on the software side, I think that’s what’s kept me here for so long, just because we are constantly changing and innovating. But, you know, I think that there’s great opportunity.

Scott Luton (43:11):

Agreed, agreed. And, just think, you know, in recent months, these quick space flights from private companies have captured the world’s attention. And, as those continue to become longer trips and with destinations, it’s going to take a supply chain to support it. So, I think that supply chain impacts everything. And, there are tremendous opportunities for folks and to our listeners that may be matriculating through high school or college, lots and lots of opportunities.

Scott Luton (43:39):

Rob, I want to bring you back in this conversation here, as we’re talking about, you know – I’m about to move into where Greg and I, Greg White and I are going to get your bold predictions or maybe not so bold predictions or whatever you all want to share for 2022. But as we touch on talent, as we touch on some of these industry observations, as we touch on some of the things, you know, impacting global business, any final thoughts you’d like to share, Rob?

Rob Schaefer (44:04):

Sure. The first one is if I actually had a working crystal ball, I probably wouldn’t be on this call but I don’t. But, in terms of 2022, I think you said this earlier it’s going to be more of the same, right. I mean, it’s just – the issues that we’re facing are so vast. It just takes time to work out of them. Right? I mean, there’s no doubt we’ll work through it. It’s all going to be good, but it’s just going to take some time, right, and that’s why we’re having this call, right, so that folks kind of understand there are tools out there that can help them work through the current situation and prepare themselves for the future. But in terms of other things in 2022, I mean, I think, as you had mentioned earlier, too, you know, issues create opportunity for smart people to come up with solutions, right?

Rob Schaefer (44:52):

So, you’re going to see more and more people working, you know, on the autonomous driving, you know, trucks and drones, and you’re going to see much more in terms of robotics and all those sorts of things, right, to try to be as efficient as people possibly can be to move a product from A to B and to ultimately see the end customer. So, I think you’re going to see a lot more investment in those types of things where those investments come to fruition in 2022. I highly doubt it, right. And, that’s why I said, I just think that we’re going to see more of the same in 2022, but I think you’re going to see a lot of shippers out there looking to update their technology to be able to not only address the issues at hand, but those that they may face in the future.

Scott Luton (45:36):

Well said, Rob. Well said. Okay. So, he kind of – if you noticed there Gregg Lanyard and Greg White, Rob kind of gave us a final thought around what’s going on out there and then brought in his crystal ball, which I know he has. I know he has clearly.

Rob Schaefer (45:50):

It’s a Halloween decoration, unfortunately.

Scott Luton (45:55):

But, you know, it’s so true. We’re going to see more of the same and, you know, same never lasts more than 30 seconds and an air lock we’re getting through. You take all the pain aside, take all the challenges side, just how technology is ensuring that every day is not the same. And, that is some more good news. Gregg Lanyard, I love your focus on good news as you’ve kind of spiked the football on that a couple of times. We love good news around here. So, let’s – Gregg, when you break out your crystal ball, whether it’s a Halloween decoration or not, what are you projecting for next year?

Gregg Lanyard (46:31):

All right. So, that’s a good lead into I think how I want to answer this. Right? So, Rob explained it pretty well, and I’ll say there’s the good, the bad and the ugly coming, right? But it’s in reverse order. It’s ugly. It’s going to be bad, but then it’s going to get good. I think that’s the reality of the situation. My goodness, we were approaching, you know, Christmas season and there’s going to be issues and challenges with all the back-ups happening and the challenges that we’re just faced with right now. So, that’s going to be, I think, a realization for folks in the short term, families, kids, all of that piece, that’s going to be unprecedented and that’s the ugly. But, you know, as we move into next year, as I mentioned before, I just think that we will start to find that equilibrium, right. I think it always comes and we always get to that point. We’ve struggled through driver shortages. We’ve struggled through port backups, capacity challenges in the past, and we’ve always made it through and found somewhat of an equilibrium and I think we will get there.

Scott Luton (47:33):

Outstanding. The next Clint Eastwood movie. It’s the ugly, the bad, and the good. Everything happens in reverse order, Greg White. I agree with you, Gregg Lanyard. We’re going to get through it, you know, these holidays coming up and in the next year. You know, there’s our hardworking and really smart and savvy supply chain practitioners around the world working to make sure consumers have what they want. However, Greg White, as you have spoken to, this might be the year to look inward and look local and enjoy presence with the CS rather than an NTS, perhaps. But, Greg, based on what you’ve heard, the crystal ball projections here, more of the same as Rob said, and the ugly, the bad, and the good as Gregg mentioned. Greg White, what comes to mind?

Greg White (48:17):

You know, what really comes to mind is how right they both are. I mean, we’ve probably settled at a [inaudible] level.

Scott Luton (48:27):

Greg White and has been to the future and he’s come back and it’s a term of both of y’all are 100% accurate –

Greg White (48:33):

I’ll be back.

Scott Luton (48:34):

Right?

Greg White (48:35):

I think we have settled at a certain level of equilibrium ironically that equilibrium is the constant management, the constant reflection and deflection of interventions in the supply chain and the impact. And, I think that when I think about real equilibrium, meaning a state of stability in the marketplace when I – that’s what I think about as equilibrium. I think, you know, in 2019, we were under employed in supply chain by 2 million jobs and supply chain is now infinitely – I don’t think that’s overstating it. It is infinitely more important and recognized within every enterprise than it was in 2019. And, now the entire country, arguably world, is underemployed. So, we’re going to have to get people back to work to fix some of these issues. We have to get governments to equilibrium so they stop intervening because aside from government intervention, interventions that have caused disruption in the supply chain, every other disruption in the supply chain is a disruption that we face every single year in supply chain.

Greg White (49:51):

It’s whether it’s shipments being lost, it’s ships being stuck in the Suez Canal, which by the way, has happened before, freezes in petroleum product producing states like Texas. All of those things are news this year because people recognize that supply chain is important, but all of those happen every year. What doesn’t happen every year is governments paying people not to work of the intense and divergent regulations around that impact ocean going vessels every day, by the way, around what kind of vaccination, do you need to be vaccinated, what is the quarantine period. All of those variations create disruption in the supply chain. And, I think we’ll start to see in 2022 a little bit of the governments taking their hands off of whatever portion of the body or vehicle that is, that are causing those things to continue to bring completely unexpected disruptions to the supply chain. That’s the danger is these completely unexpected never before experienced disruptions and those aren’t caused by the usual disruption sources that supply chain has seen in the past.

Scott Luton (51:05):

All right. So, more of the same, more than not so same, tough times ahead, but lots of – the silver lining here, and Gregg lanyard and Rob Schaefer, I bet y’all can agree with this. We’ve talked about this before. One of the silver linings of this pandemic is innovation. And, we don’t necessarily love the phrase best practices because it kind of assumes what we’ve been doing forever. It will always remain the best thing to do now, but it’s true. You know, the current times are driving lots and lots of innovation, and I appreciate y’all’s part in that.

Scott Luton (51:39):

So, on that note, folks get ready ’cause November 18th we’re going to be featuring Manhattan Associates team on a webinar talking about more of these observations and new ideas for getting through these challenging times currently and what lies ahead. But, Gregg lanyard, and then I’m going to come to you Rob, let’s make sure folks know how to connect with you both. So, feel free. We’d love to know that. And, if you’ve got a final thought, I know we’ve run the gamut here today, feel free to show that, but most importantly how can folks connect with you? Gregg, we’ll start with you.

Gregg Lanyard (52:12):

Sure, Scott. LinkedIn is probably the best way to reach me but you can also reach me through email at glanyard@manh.com. Final thought for me, you know, just a quick thank you. I think this was a good conversation. Appreciate the time and the topics, the breadth and the depth. Good to meet you, guys, and I appreciate –

Greg White (52:31):

Yeah. Likewise. Thank you.

Scott Luton (52:32):

You bet, Gregg Lanyard. I appreciate your frank, both of your frank perspective and thoughts here today. Rob Schaefer, I want to come to you next. Your final thought and how can folks connect with you.

Rob Schaefer (52:45):

Sure. First, you connect me through LinkedIn and you can send me an email. It’s rschaefer@manh.com. In terms of final thoughts, looking forward to everyone coming to the webcast on November 18th. And, you know what I mean, the future is bright. It always is. We’re all going to get through it. Been here before, maybe not to this extent, but we’re all going to keep working together around the world. And, it’s all going to turn out. So, there’s clear skies in the future.

Scott Luton (53:13):

Rob, I love that. And, I got to – you know, Greg White, I got to tell you, I love the team sport where Rob started a conversation and kind of how we referenced that throughout. That’s one of the best things about a global supply chain organizations is the team sport that it is, ain’t it, Greg?

Greg White (53:31):

It is. And, I think, you know, one of the other great things about it is the evolution of what Rob knows it as from Pittsburgh or knew it as from Pittsburgh, a brute force industry to a highly intellectual industry, and that intellect being driven back in to, you know, improve the still brute force aspects of the craft, right? I think it’s a great interaction of people getting their hands dirty and people using their minds right and, of course, technology. But I think that’s, you know, that’s what makes this such a fascinating study in just one segment of business.

Scott Luton (54:09):

Agreed. All right. Big thanks to Rob Schaefer and Gregg Lanyard, both with Manhattan Associates, both working hard to push what’s possible next. Folks, make sure you join us on November 18th at 12 noon Eastern Time for more. And then, in that webinar, we’ll be able to take your observations, your questions. We’ll pose those to Rob and Gregg. Big thanks to Greg White for joining me here today. Greg, what a heck of a conversation, huh?

Greg White (54:34):

It was fantastic. And, I got to tell you, it’s rare that we find somebody who’s been in supply chain as long as we have, Scott, certainly as long as I have. So, it was great talking with Gregg and Rob. I really appreciate all your perspective. A lot of years of work and getting into the craft and helping us make it better. And, I’d like to point out to both of you, congratulations, you made a little bit of money today because the stock, Manhattan Associates stock, MANH, made me think of that when you guys did your email address. It’s up 1.27% today. So, we had absolutely nothing to do with that.

Scott Luton (55:13):

Lots of innovation, lots of meaningful innovation, practical innovation through these challenging times. Big thanks to all of you. Folks, listening in, hopefully you enjoyed this conversation as much as we had and be sure to find us wherever you get your podcasts from Supply Chain Now. And, most importantly, hey, folks, be like Rob and Gregg and Greg. Hey, do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. And, on that note, we’ll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Intro/Outro (55:43):

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.