Blockchain could have a transformative impact across supply chains in the coming years. Are you ready? In this classic TEKTOK episode, listen in as Karin covers blockchain basics with guest, Kevin L. Jackson. They’ll cover the 10 Things You Need to Know Now as you prepare to harness blockchain technology to accelerate your digital transformation. You’ll gain clarity on four key aspects – governance, process improvements, trusted transactions, and technology – as you boost supply chain performance.

Intro (00:01):

Welcome to TEKTOK Digital Supply Chain Podcast, where we will help you eliminate the noise and focus on the information and inspiration that you need to transform your business, impact, supply chain success, and enable you to replace risky inventory with valuable insights. Join your TEKTOK host, Karin Bursa, the 2020 Supply Chain Pro To Know of the Year. With more than 25 years of supply chain and technology expertise and the scars to prove it, Karin has the heart of a teacher and has helped nearly 1,000 customers transform their businesses and tell their success stories. Join the conversation, share your insights, and learn how to harness technology innovations to drive tangible business results. Buckle up, it’s time for TEKTOK. Powered by Supply Chain Now.

Karin Bursa (01:13):

Well, welcome back supply chain movers and shakers. Karin Bursa here. And I’m so glad that you are with us today for TEKTOK, the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. You know, I am always looking to cover the latest topics that are impacting business professionals and digital supply chain operations. And my goal is to help you replace risky inventory with valuable information.

Karin Bursa (01:36):

Now, a few weeks ago, a dear friend approached me and said, “Hey, can you net it out? Can you give me the basics on blockchain? Because I’m getting questions from my peers, other executives in the business, as well as people who work for me, and I need a baseline. Help me understand what blockchain is and how it’s going to impact supply chain performance.” So, there you have it, that’s my inspiration for today, is to give some blockchain basics for those of you who are just getting started in this area, and you want to start the conversations within your business or with your trading partners.

Karin Bursa (02:17):

So, we are going to cover blockchain basics, and we’re going to go through ten questions, ten things you need to know. Because blockchain could have a transformative impact on your supply chain, and it’s coming. It’s coming quickly. And lucky for you, I have recruited an expert to help us dive into this topic today. And with me today is Mr. Kevin L. Jackson. And I got to tell you, I am a little bit star struck by today’s guest. If I listed all of Kevin’s accomplishments, we would never even get to the topic of blockchain. So, let me give you just a few highlights for him.

Karin Bursa (02:58):

So, Kevin L. Jackson is globally recognized as a thought leader on topics of digital transformation. And he’s authored a couple of books. His most recent book, Click To Transform, was published just last year in 2020; Architecting Cloud Computing Solutions, 2018; and Practical Cloud Security: A Cross-Industry View was in 2016. So, think about that, he was at the forefront of cloud computing in 2016 and talking about important topics like security. So, Kevin is also a retired U.S. Navy. Kevin, thank you for your service. We do appreciate it.

Kevin L. Jackson (03:38):

Thank you. A different life as they say.

Karin Bursa (03:40):

It was, but we appreciate the contributions you and your family made for our country. Now, Kevin is also the host of Digital Transformers, which is a podcast here on Supply Chain Now as well, and where I got to meet Kevin for the first time. So, Kevin, thanks for joining us today.

Kevin L. Jackson (04:00):

No. Thank you for the opportunity to be on TEKTOK. I love that name.

Karin Bursa (04:05):

Yeah. I love it.

Kevin L. Jackson (04:05):

I love that name.

Karin Bursa (04:08):

It’s exciting. So, Kevin and I launched our podcasts at the same time, so we’re just about a year into this relationship with Supply Chain Now. And it has been just a lot of fun to look at his perspective of the industry, and then my perspective of the industry, and where we overlap, and where we bring new ideas and new contributions to the conversation. And I think today we’ve got a ringer. So, all of you supply chain movers and shakers, you know, grab a pad. You may want to write a few things down as we go through some of these blockchain basics.

Karin Bursa (04:45):

So, I’m going to start, Kevin, with just a really basic description of blockchain. And then, I’m going to ask you to kind of net it out for me, if you will. So, blockchain, really, you will hear frequently, peer-to-peer distributed ledger technology to securely record transactions between two parties. And those transactions are stored in blocks. So, the goal is to provide kind of a trusted, accountable, transparent environment that really removes some intermediaries that have facilitated transactions in the past. So, there’s an opportunity to reduce friction or to accelerate the flow of information between trading partners. So, it’s faster. It should be clearer. And we should have a really good auditable process about, you know, what that transaction and business relationship is. Is that accurate?

Kevin L. Jackson (05:45):

Correct. You know, that is very accurate and very boring.

Karin Bursa (05:53):

That is a different show. Supply Chain is Boring is a different show. So, you’re going to have to make this interesting for me.

Kevin L. Jackson (06:00):

Okay. When you were talking about the definition, you used the word intermediary. You said, where intermediaries who were historically necessary, right? When you hear and intermediaries, you should really hear costs. Money. The more intermediaries you have, the more money it costs. So, if you can eliminate the intermediaries, you can save money. So, while the definition seems bland, organizations really bear a tremendous cost to verify data and verify transactions.

Kevin L. Jackson (06:49):

Think about the people you hire for data entry, and then the additional people you hire to verify that the data entry is correct. What about licensing? If you have staff that you have to license, and the license may expire, you need another piece of your staff to verify that that license is still valid. Memberships, they expire as well. How about requirements? Who had that requirement? Who set that requirement? Why are you doing these things? You typically hire somebody to verify that you’ve met their requirement. Transactions, what about the history of a transaction? How much did it cost before? Who sold it before? All of these things are about hiring intermediaries to verify information and data. Blockchain can reduce that requirement and save you money, also enhance the ability to verify. So, all these, and a myriad of other mission and business requirements, can be addressed with blockchain. And I’m just talking between maybe two parties. As you have more parties involved in a transaction, the cost and the number of intermediaries that you need increase exponentially. But a single blockchain could support an unlimited number of parties. Does that make sense?

Karin Bursa (08:33):

That makes sense. So, you got me with costs. You got my attention. So, I know our audience is leaning in and listening on how they can reduce cost. I’m also going to reinforce that they can accelerate their business as well. So, one of the big promises of digital transformation is that we’re reducing that friction, or that delay, or those review cycles, and we’re able to really accelerate the transaction or accelerate the business relationship around those activities. So, cost and time, and time is money. So, it all comes together.

Kevin L. Jackson (09:09):

Yeah. Because every intermediary takes time to execute whatever they’re doing. So, it reduces time also by eliminating intermediaries.

Karin Bursa (09:21):

Perfect. So, when we’re hearing blockchain, frequently, supply chain has been center stage for these last almost two years now, as we think through COVID and how companies, you know, grappled with decisions in their businesses. Blockchain is starting to be mentioned more and more in the daily news or in financial investment sectors. So, when we think about blockchain, it does come up in conversations around financial, Bitcoin, traceability, country of origin, food safety, even around brand equity and counterfeit goods, and then efficiency as well. So, for today’s conversation, we’re going to focus in on the supply chain implications of blockchain and the opportunities around blockchain. Fair enough?

Kevin L. Jackson (10:16):

Yes. Great.

Karin Bursa (10:18):

Okay. Great. And I love that you said anything that requires data verification. It’s going to be a great way to get started.

Kevin L. Jackson (10:27):

But it’s also not just verifying data. But if you need any type of insight into a transaction history, it can benefit from blockchain. In simple terms, the blockchain will maintain ground truth and a history of that truth. So, if an unrefutable record of past transactions who are helping your business in any way, blockchain could be a real valuable tool. But you also need to remember that it’s only a tool, so it must be used properly.

Karin Bursa (11:04):

So, talking really basics here. So, stick with me. So, when we say blockchain is a shared ledger, what the heck does that mean? Does that mean I join a ledger or I join a block? What exactly does that mean for my business?

Kevin L. Jackson (11:24):

If you’re in business, you know what an Excel Spreadsheet is, right?

Karin Bursa (11:28):

Oh, yes. Don’t we all?

Kevin L. Jackson (11:30):

So, blockchain is like a big digital Excel Spreadsheet that records transactions between various parties. Now, if you have an Excel Spreadsheet, you could put the transactions and let everyone see it. And you can say, “If you want to give me something or buy something from me, we can record it on this spreadsheet, and everybody knows.” And that’s what Bitcoin is, right? Everyone or anyone can exchange this digital currency. You can buy from anyone and sell to anyone. This is an open blockchain, an open digital spreadsheet. And it doesn’t require anyone’s permission to join. That’s referred to as a permission-less blockchain.

Kevin L. Jackson (12:32):

But you could go the other way as well. So, you can go to a permission blockchain, where only authorized people can see this digital Excel Spreadsheet, where the data owner needs to give explicit approval to anyone that requests access to this digital spreadsheet or to the blockchain. Now, the participants in a blockchain ecosystem can negotiate any variation that they want based upon the business needs and requirements. So, essentially that’s what it is.

Karin Bursa (13:16):

Okay. So, you actually covered a lot of topics in there that I will peel back probably with some of my other questions. But my next question was going to be, are all blockchains the same? And you just said no. You just said, they’re not all the same. So, is it possible, can I use a blockchain to find new trading partners or to work with companies or people who I have not worked with in the past?

Kevin L. Jackson (13:49):

Yes. Absolutely. And there is, like, trust your supplier, for instance, is a supplier information blockchain where potential suppliers put their financial information, the products that they have, the services they provide, who they’ve worked with in the past as data on a blockchain. And then, an independent third party would verify that that data is true and correct. So, if you were looking for a new supplier, you could go to the TYS blockchain, do a search on the product or service that you’re looking for, and you would see a list of companies that provide that product or service. Now, with their permission – so this is a permissioned blockchain – you would be able to see the history of who they have sold what to. Now, blockchains can be built on different technologies like Hyperledger or Ethereum, but the approach is still the same.

Kevin L. Jackson (15:01):

Similarly, you have different companies that offer blockchains to do different things. Like, you can have a Microsoft technology being used in a blockchain, or Oracle, or the IBM Cloud could have its own and it does has its own blockchain. But like you have a Microsoft Cloud, and an Oracle Cloud, and an IBM Cloud, where each cloud has its own purpose and business model, each blockchain has its own purpose and business models. So, companies will consume services from multiple clouds, so they will consume multiple blockchains as well.

Karin Bursa (15:45):

Okay. So, my company may need to be a member of multiple blockchains, right? So, when we think of supply chain roles, who is a typical participant in those blockchains? Is this a supply chain planner, somebody in a sourcing role, or am I thinking that it’s more something that the accounting department is going to do as far as verifying transactions?

Kevin L. Jackson (16:16):

Well, I would say all of the above. Because they may be separate business processes, but the data that supports the process is the same. And like I said before, a blockchain provides ground troops. So, you want all of those processes using the same ground proof. Or you would have internal inconsistencies, and that’s never good.

Karin Bursa (16:46):

No. No. And we know that never happens in small companies, medium companies, or large companies. It never happens.

Kevin L. Jackson (16:55):

Yeah. But businesses never ever operated alone. But more and more businesses have integrated processes that go across multiple organizations or across your own business ecosystem. So, you may be a supplier in one case, but every supplier also buys from someone else. So, you’re a consumer or customer and a supplier as well. And you operate in different business ecosystems in different positions of the value chain. And the data that you need to have access to has different value depending upon your position in that value chain.

Karin Bursa (17:48):

Okay. Okay. I think I’m with you. So, I was going to ask, does every supply chain need a blockchain? And it sounds like the answer is yes. But there’s opportunity there for many roles to participate or many business functions to participate in blockchain areas, or transactions, or verification. Is that accurate?

Karin Bursa (18:14):

Yeah. So, when I say the definition of blockchain is kind of bland and boring –

Karin Bursa (18:19):

Why do you call it boring? Why do you call it boring?

Kevin L. Jackson (18:22):

It just records transactions. That’s all it does. But it’s digital, it’s cryptographically protected, and it can’t be raised without anyone’s knowledge. But it’s simply record-keeping. And in supply chain, you need a record. You need to record exchange of goods. You need a record of transaction among the group of traders. So, every supply chain needs to keep records. The question is, do you want to keep your record using pencil and paper? Or do you want to use a cryptographically protected digital and immutable process? It’s your choice.

Karin Bursa (19:12):

Wow. The way you put that, it seems like the choice is clear. But let me ask the next question. So, if blockchain can bring disparate parties together, new trading partners together, for a better collaboration, better confidence that they’re working with a trusted partner, a trusted business, is blockchain a database? Because the database may limit my ability to see maybe the lifecycle of that relationship over time.

Kevin L. Jackson (19:46):

You got it. You’re starting to learn what blockchain is. Because a database records a current state. Once that current state is locked in, all previous states are erased. A blockchain records the current state, but it also keeps a record of all previous states, that history. That’s the key difference.

Karin Bursa (20:16):

Yeah. That’s really important there. I think, when I can see the full life cycle, if you will, of a relationship or a transaction for my business, and be able to chain that together, chain a little bit. So, another area I get a lot of questions in is, does blockchain allow me to gain visibility or to reach back further into my supply chain network? Let me clarify. A lot of companies from a planning perspective have reasonable visibility of their tier one suppliers. Some can go into tier two supplier, so businesses that supply their suppliers. Does blockchain help me with that? You know, for example, one use case that I know there’s been some good, tangible benefit around has been in the apparel industry. And with the ability to track or trace the country of origin for cotton, for example. The normal apparel producer might not see who actually produced the cotton in the past or maybe it was done in a semi-manual way through intermediaries. But does it open up my visibility? Does that help me to have better control over my supply chain?

Kevin L. Jackson (21:47):

So, blockchain is a tool, right? You have to decide if you want to use the tool or not. So, it’s really a question of organizational governance. So, you say the normal organization where only look maybe to their tier one partner. Now, why do they make that decision? Well, because they need to hire intermediaries to verify what their tier one partner is doing, and that’s cost. They may want to look at tier two, but then they have to hire more intermediaries, more costs, more time to do that. So, from a governance point of view, they say, “What is the value of spending additional money to gain that visibility? So, a cost benefit analysis. Now, if the cost of verifying what’s happening with your tier two provider goes down, well, maybe that changes the cost benefit analysis. And that may change your organizational governance decision.

Kevin L. Jackson (23:09):

IBM food trust, for example, has established end-to-end visibility to the complete food supply chain for its members. A similar blockchain has been created for the pharmaceutical industry. Now, individual companies and organizations, however, need to establish a requirement to join these types of ecosystems. They have to make their own cost benefit analysis that the value of having visibility into that data and information beyond tier one, two, and three, and so forth is valuable. Then, they create that as part of their own organizational governance. It definitely can be done, but senior executives need to make it happen and it’s a business decision.

Karin Bursa (24:04):

Okay. But I think that that’s important, right? Because we established that blockchain can help reduce cost. It can accelerate visibility or decision-making or transactions in your business. So, it can eliminate waste as far as that wait time or that review time that might be in your traditional business process as well. But tell me this, Kevin, so is blockchain proven or are we still pursuing a proof of concept format? You’ve given us just a couple of examples, let’s kind of visit some of those because I think pharma is a great example, the food sector, again, traceability becomes really important there as well. Walk us through if this is still stuff that is, you know, being proven in the marketplace or if there are real value assignments that have been made around the capabilities.

Kevin L. Jackson (25:05):

So, in the finance industry, they’re ahead than many other industries. And just to give you an example of what’s being done today, Boston-based, Circle, oversees more than $2 billion a month in cryptocurrency investment and exchanges between friends.

Karin Bursa (25:31):

Between friends. Between friends with deep pocket books. Yes. Okay.

Kevin L. Jackson (25:33):

Yeah. I wish I had those friends, right? I mean, I would say that that’s a lot of risk. But these people within this ecosystem trust the blockchain to the amount of $2 billion a month burst IQ. It leverages big data blockchain contracts to help patients and doctors transfer sensitive medical information. All of these are not proof of concepts. These are real businesses making money every day. Media chain uses smart contracts to get musicians the money that they deserve because there’s a decentralized transparent contract between the artists and the distributors to actually monitor the royalties associated with the sales.

Karin Bursa (26:37):

So, now, that’s interesting, Kevin, because that is more than just the buyer-seller. It is the contractual terms around the delivery of that service or the rights of ownership to that intellectual property. So, that’s really interesting as we think about blockchain in a more comprehensive manner.

Kevin L. Jackson (26:59):

Yeah. Propy, it’s a global real estate marketplace that decentralized title registry. There’s a company called Filament that create software and microchip devices, and it helps connect devices that operate on the blockchain. So, I mean, there’s huge value in multiple industry verticals and it’s been proven by multiple companies.

Karin Bursa (27:32):

Yep. Yeah. So, those are some great examples. I think that gives us several different industries. I would agree that the financial sector is one of the first that come to mind, especially around Bitcoin, or even transactions, or accelerating letters of credit, or any of those aspects. But the other area that I’m hearing blockchain mentioned in more and more frequently is around environmental and social governance, so our ESG initiatives. This is mostly, Kevin, around things like country of origin, conflict minerals, things along those lines. Is there value from a blockchain ledger from a registry process in this area of environmental, and social, and business governance? Or are companies just kind of green washing and looking for another way to say, “Look, we’re investing in being more responsible from a global basis.”

Kevin L. Jackson (28:36):

So, earlier, we talked about the value of blockchain and that it establishes ground truth. And when you’re thinking about any ESG initiative, that’s what they’re doing. They’re trying to verify, identify ground truth and prove it to their constituents and their stakeholders. So, blockchain absolutely can provide that ground truth, that’s what it’s designed to do. It keeps records. So, tracking blood diamonds, you can look at the transactions to see who bought what from whom. That’s the value. But on the other hand, there’s a huge amount of controversy around the amount of energy that’s used to operate these blockchains. Because some of the current consensus mechanisms in order to prove ground truths, there are different processes and algorithms that have to be run. And these are run on computers. And in order for the answer to be timely, it could take a lot of computers, and these computers running data centers that use electricity that contribute to pollution.

Kevin L. Jackson (30:11):

So, in some cases, the carbon footprint of the data centers needed to support the consensus mechanisms is exorbitant. So, what you pay in climate change drastically or dramatically outweighs what you lose in blood diamonds, for instance. But there are greener options for consensus in place, and research is being done on many other methods that is bearing fruit to reduce the amount of energy that’s used. So, the bottom line is, don’t avoid using blockchain. It’s very valuable. It can provide that ground truth. Just pick the greener options, the greener technologies of executing the blockchain in your business.

Karin Bursa (31:11):

Okay. That’s some really valuable insight there, I think, as companies look at weaving in some of these methods, if you will, the blockchain methods in order to support initiatives. Let’s make sure that they’re not counterproductive in the process. So, if we are – well, let me rephrase that. Are we still in an early adopter arena here, Kevin? Or can I go out and subscribe to a commercial blockchain platform to do X, Y, Z, so you mentioned initiatives in specific industries, for example? Or do I have to grow my own? Do I have to grow it myself or develop a blockchain myself?

Kevin L. Jackson (32:02):

The answer to that is both. Are we an early adopter? Definitely, yes. Because minority of industries actually leverage blockchain for its value, but the value is there and the value is proven. Do you have to create it and grow your own? No. There are many, many big companies that provide blockchain technology options and services, IBM, Microsoft, Accenture, and such. But it requires you to understand your business case, how you want to use it and the value of truth in your business.

Karin Bursa (32:50):

Okay. So, I recommend truth in my business at all times. So, highly valued, highly valued. But speaking of truth, let’s talk about some electronic notification, if you will. So, is there a connection in blockchain with technologies like RFID where I can identify where my assets are or how they’re moving? Or with the broader Internet of Things, when I think of IoT signals that might indicate a need for repair or replacement or replenishment in my business or in the customers that I serve?

Kevin L. Jackson (33:33):

Absolutely. So, once again, blockchain keeps records, right? It keeps the history of those records. Those records could be a beta from sensors like RFID or from IoT devices. Or, like, your car isn’t part of the Internet of Things, where your car is every minute of the day could be recorded on a blockchain. So, any sensor can provide data to a blockchain. I may not want that to happen, but it is possible.

Karin Bursa (34:04):

So, a little scary. But I can see where collecting that information, where we’re constantly being asked if we want to opt in, if we want to share our data, if we want to share user data on your internet browser, and to help make it better in the long run. Or on your fitness monitor, or your bed, your sleep number, you’re [inaudible] sleep. I mean, there are no boundaries to the data.

Kevin L. Jackson (34:28):

Yeah. With your sleep number. Looking at that history, yes.

Karin Bursa (34:33):

Yes. That is being collected.

Kevin L. Jackson (34:35):

But you may not be able to lie about your weight now.

Karin Bursa (34:42):

Oh, man. I don’t like that. You hit a girl right where it counts. Come on. All right. So, if blockchain is not just hype, if it is reality and there are some good business use cases around blockchain, does it belong in my digital transformation priority list? Coming to you, you know, you are Mr. Digital Transformation, Digital Transformers podcast, does blockchain belong in that list of activities and priorities? And if so, is this a top 5 item or is it a top 20 item?

Kevin L. Jackson (35:22):

Unequivocally, yes. And I would put it in your top five. It is a hype. It can be used to digitize your business process. It can improve data exchange. It can accelerate your business ecosystem. It can reduce the cost of delivering a product or service. It can accelerate your ability to deliver a product or service. It can expand your business. So, yes, yes, yes.

Karin Bursa (35:57):

Yeah. I mean, it’s like music to my ears. I heard reduced cost, accelerate, and grow or expand my business. So, there are great use cases around all three of those levers for your business and within your supply chain operations. So, all of you supply chain movers and shakers out there, I want you to start thinking about this. And Kevin L. Jackson, host of Digital Transformers, just said that blockchain belongs in your top five on your digital transformation list. So, let’s start working it in there. If it’s something that’s just been kind of off to the side or a skunkworks initiative, let’s get that moved into your priorities for your business as you think about those first few ways to apply blockchain technology to do all of those good finger licking things, like reduce costs, accelerate information, and give me an opportunity to grow my business more efficiently. So, Kevin, bonus question for you, from a supply chain perspective, what industries are leading the way with blockchain?

Kevin L. Jackson (37:05):

So, I would say logistics. Absolutely logistics in the supply chain. Because they are using RFID to collect data and they’re collecting that data across multi-mode transportation. So, you can know what is where when. So, you can actually keep the history of your toilet paper.

Karin Bursa (37:32):

I may not want the full history of my toilet paper, but I get where you’re going with that. So, let me ask this question, you did give a couple of good examples, too, that I think are very pertinent in pharmaceutical and life sciences. So, just some of the examples that you shared, especially where regulatory concerns come into play for those goods or services as products being brought to market.

Kevin L. Jackson (38:00):

The ground truth, right?

Karin Bursa (38:02):

Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned, you know, visibility and traceability in the food supply chain as well. So, do you think that that’s one industry that we are seeing lean in to blockchain a little more than some others?

Kevin L. Jackson (38:18):

Yeah. And, once again, it’s around logistics. Where did that food come from? Who created that food? Was it kept in the proper temperature and humidity while it was transported from its origin to my table?

Karin Bursa (38:35):

Again, right there, temperature control. That’s another great example of how IoT can come into play to enrich that data as well, because I can keep and track that information in the progression of that food coming to market to verify that it’s been kept in the appropriate conditions all the way through to consumption, if you will.

Karin Bursa (38:56):

So, Kevin, this has been really great for me. Thank you for kind of boiling it down.

Kevin L. Jackson (39:00):

No. Thank you for having me on the show. And it’s been a pleasure to cover blockchain for your audience.

Karin Bursa (39:08):

Yeah. Yeah. Blockchain basics, Kevin can go a lot deeper. So, all of you supply to your movers and shakers out there, I want to recommend that you check out Digital Transformers, because Kevin really is a very influential authority in this area, and he can help you just layer on more thoughts, dig a little deeper beyond these blockchain basics that we’ve been able to cover today. So, Kevin, let me ask you, final piece of advice. What one thing do you want our audience to walk away with from today’s discussion of blockchain basics?

Kevin L. Jackson (39:46):

So, I would say keep an open mind. The possibilities are endless. We live in a world where, if you can think of it, you can achieve it. And that’s the truth with business. So, learn about blockchain, you already know about your business so apply the value of blockchain to your business, and everyone benefits.

Karin Bursa (40:14):

Excellent. Well, Kevin L. Jackson, thank you for bringing such clarity to our topic of blockchain basics today, especially in how it applies to supply chain. It’s been a big help. It’s helped me. And we’ve covered lots of different things, governance, process improvements, cultural boundaries, and the application of technology to help facilitate all of these items in a digital transformation. And you heard it here, supply chain movers and shakers, this belongs on your digital transformation list. Let’s work it into your strategy. Let’s expand your education and dive into many of the great resources that are available on the topic.

Karin Bursa (40:58):

And check out Kevin L. Jackson, our guest today, who is, in fact, host of Digital Transformers. And if you go to Supply Chain Now, you can subscribe there. And while you’re there, do me a favor, subscribe to TEKTOK as well, that’s T-E-K-T-O-K. I don’t want you to miss a single episode. And our goal here is to help you eliminate the noise and focus in on the information and inspiration you need to transform your business and replace that risky inventory with valuable insights. We’ll see you next time here on TEKTOK, powered by Supply Chain Now.