The Coca-Cola Company is a globally recognized beverage giant with a complex and extensive supply chain network. Its enduring success and its commitment to customer engagement serve as a backdrop for this episode’s discussions on technology’s transformative role in supply chain management.

Rob Haddock, a supply chain expert with over four decades of experience at The Coca-Cola Company, joins hosts Greg and Scott in this episode, along with special guest Will Shu, CEO and co-founder of Vector, to discuss technology’s impact on supply chain management. Haddock’s extensive background at The Coca-Cola Company provides valuable context for the episode.

Listen in as Rob shares his insights on his tenure at the Coca-Cola Company, highlighting the significance of customer-centric approaches, and offers practical technology solutions in supply chain management.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, hey. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. Scott Luton and Greg White with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s live stream. Gregory, how we doing today?

Greg White (00:42):

I’m doing fine. I’m here in the — yes, whatever studios, where we only light half your face, like, right?

Scott Luton (00:51):

very dramatic. You can be very passionate and dramatic.

Greg White (00:54):

Yes, it’s just a — it’s one of those hazards of being on the road, right? You might wind up being in a what? Francis Ford Coppola — whatever movie.

Scott Luton (01:04):

Well, hey, it’s apropos.

Greg White (01:06):

Very dramatic day, folks.

Scott Luton (01:07):

It is apropos because we have a big show teed up here. Today. We’re going to be talking about how to optimize your tech stack. And in particular, we have the opportunity to learn from one business leader that spent over 40 years at the Coca-Cola company. Oh, man, we are in for some neat insights and perspective. Ain’t that right, Greg?

Greg White (01:29):

Yes, I’ve already questioned whether he could have been there for 40 years. You’ll have to see folks when you see him. Obviously, he managed his supply chain very well.

Scott Luton (01:38):

It’s — it looks like he just graduated. He’s put something good in his jeans.

Greg White (01:43):

I’m looking in the mirror going, what did I do wrong?

Scott Luton (01:45):

Well, not only will we hear from Rob here in just a second, but also Will with Vector. So, you all stay tuned. And folks, we want to hear from you all as well. Som throughout the hour, as Katherine and Jonathan and Jeff are popping into the stream there, the comments, we want to hear from you, and cheap seats. You let us know what you’re thinking as we navigate through this great conversation teed up here today.

Scott Luton (02:06):

So, Greg — and I’ll give a shout out to, maybe, Francis Ford Coppola, who may be in the room, you know, with the camera, you know, saying action. Are you ready to go?

Greg White (02:18):

Yes, I am.

Scott Luton (02:19):

All right.

Greg White (02:20):

Sorry, I didn’t get the — kind of words.

Scott Luton (02:22):

Well, with that said then, I want to welcome in our two esteemed guests, Rob Haddock —

Greg White (02:26):

Can we do a second take? Sorry. Just —

Scott Luton (02:28):

Rob Haddock, former group director of planning and logistics at Coca-Cola North America and Will Chu, CEO and co-founder at Vector.

Scott Luton (02:38):

Hey, he. Rob, how you doing?

Rob Haddock (02:39):

Hey, good morning, Scott. Greg, how’s it going? Hey, there, Will.

Scott Luton (02:43):

Great to see you. And, Will, how you doing?

Will Chu (02:45):

I’m doing great. Great to be here. Thanks so much for having me and Rob. I’m really excited about (INAUDIBLE) today.

Scott Luton (02:53):

Well, we’ve got a great conversation teed up, so we appreciate that. And Greg and Will and Rob, this is where we want to start here today. We had a little — more — some market intel as we’re doing our due diligence on our guests today, Greg, as you know. But — so, we’re going to talk music, but I want to start by celebrating some musicians that have birthdays today. Avril Lavigne, born this day back in ’84. Lil Wayne was born this day back in ’82. Stephen Jenkins from Third Eye Blind, if you remember that, I remember that in college, was born this day back in ’66. And the Meatloaf born this day back in 1947.

Scott Luton (03:28):

So, using those, and I hope they have a wonderful birthday. Rob, you are well known for a special unique musical talent playing bagpipes. So, Rob, tell us more.

Rob Haddock (03:40):

Well, I’ve got them right here in front of me. So, if you want, I’ll — you know, I’ll do a few tunes before we get started just to get the crowd going. I’m afraid we’d have very few people by the time I was done. But anyways, the Scottish descent and growing up in northeast Ohio as a child, I started to get into them, didn’t get very far because sports got in the way and other things. But as I grew a little more mature in life, I thought, well, you know, I had a hankering for learning and I picked them back up a couple decades ago. And, for those who maybe went to Coca-Cola’s Transportation Summit that we had here in August, I closed out the summit with a few tunes. So —

Scott Luton (04:22):

What?

Rob Haddock (04:23):

— it was a fun event and nobody ran from the room, thank goodness.

Scott Luton (04:27):

All right. We’re going to have to — Greg, we’re going to have to track down footage of that. And next time, Rob, we’ll do this in person. You’ll have to bring them and close out the show. Greg, how’s that sound?

Greg White (04:36):

They’re keeping it in the same vault with the secret formula, I’m sure.

Scott Luton (04:41):

All right. So, moving right along. That’s going to be tough to top. So, Will, I’m going to switch over to you talking music. Do you have any musical talents that we should be aware of?

Will Chu (04:48):

I think talent would be a strong word. Growing up as a piano player. And then I thought it would be fun to be in more of a — in a social, kind of, circle. So, I joined the marching band where I played saxophone. I thought that saxophone would impress some of the girls in my class, that the uniform would help. I get the — have the opposite effect. I will say that Rob sets the bar high. I don’t think that we would have either many customers or even employees if I busted out my sax.

Scott Luton (05:19):

All right. We’ll save that. Will, we’ll save that for another show. And I appreciate your willingness to experiment there as you move from the piano to the saxophone. We’ll have to cover more on a later show.

Scott Luton (05:30):

All right, Rob and Will thank you all both for sharing. Greg, now some folks may not know — and I think I’ve got this right, you are a former lead singer, but tell us about your musical talent, Greg.

Greg White (05:38):

Yes, decent pipes, I suppose. Not the same kind as Rob or Will, but yes, I’ve done a little singing or here and there. I’ve been known to karaoke. But I got to tell you, there’s a couple things that kind of jump out at me. First of all, people that can play the piano can play just about anything because you have to learn music. The other thing that thinking — that being in the band would make you cool, tells me, Will, is you are destined for tech leadership.

Scott Luton (06:09):

That is so true.

Greg White (06:09):

What we think is cool is — let’s just say not always the case perspective often.

Will Chu (06:17):

Maybe a lack of self-awareness. Maybe that’s the —

Greg White (06:20):

I thought you’d — that’s the most important gift when you’re in tech, for sure.

Scott Luton (06:24):

So, we can definitely have you all back as we talk about next time, Supply Chain Orchestration. So, we’ll save that for later in —

Greg White (06:30):

Whoa, whoa, whoa. There we go.

Scott Luton (06:31):

Yes, you know. You know, we’ll do that. Will, you have to bring your saxophone next time and we will have a supply chain jam band. But moving right along folks, Rob and Will, great to have you all again as always. And folks, again, out there in the chat, let us know what your musical talent is or your take on this great conversation that we are getting into now.

Scott Luton (06:49):

So, we want to start with some context, right, with — really, with you both. And we’re not going to be able to do, Rob, over four decades with one of the world’s most well-known companies, justice here in a little bit. But, you know, when you think back through those four decades of doing big things in supply chain with the Coca-Cola company, share a couple of highlights of that journey? And I’ve got a graphic pulled up when you’re ready to.

Rob Haddock (07:11):

Yes, Scott, I mean, I had aspirations of being an I.T. person when I first went down to college. And this was — you know, you guys can fact check me, but it was 1980 when I was a freshman. And I quickly learned in my first I.T. class, which I think had punch cards and they were trying to educate me on what Fortran was. I realized that I was nowhere suited to go into that industry. But I thought being a, you know, a — an innovator of what I could use with that information if we were able to bring it together, turned me over to economics and to management.

Greg White (07:47):

So, when I started way back in the early ’80s, you know, we had a plant environment, we were still in an age where inventories were managed with a piece of pen — a piece of paper and a pencil. And, you know, we didn’t have things like ERP systems, which, you know, eventually would come out later in the late ’80s and early ’90s. So, in warehouse management systems, you know, it was the art of driving around and finding, hopefully the product that was the oldest to get onto a truck.

Rob Haddock (08:17):

So, you know, the late ’80s, early ’90s were just phenomenal in terms of the advancements that started to come at us very quickly. You know, I think most memorable back then was ERP system and Lotus Notes 1-2-3. And the idea of a laptop — or not a laptop, but a desktop on your desk with three and a half inch floppy discs. So, I mean, you think about where some of us started if you go back far enough — and I could spend the next hour just talking about what happened in that decade, Scott, but I want to, you know, pass it on.

Scott Luton (08:51):

Well, so let’s — I want to give you a chance. We’ve got this whiteboard, cool looking whiteboard vibe looking graphic here. Briefly, Rob, kind of, just what are we looking at here from your thoughts?

Rob Haddock (09:03):

Well, you know, I kind of doodle a lot around with, you know, technologies, and I think, you know, we’ll get into it later. One of the biggest challenges is what tech do you have and what do you need and how do you know you need it? And if you do get it, how do you get people to adapt to it? But if I think about the core tech that kind of came along in the ’80s, late ’80s, ’90s and probably early 2000s was, you know, the idea of MRP systems and warehouse management systems and even TMS’s, they all seem to hit the scene about the same time.

Rob Haddock (09:33):

And then you go a little bit late into the, you know, 2010 to 2020 and beyond, and we’ve got all of these different enhancements that started to become Boltons perhaps some of the core tech. And then I’ve always been a big report junkie of, how the heck can I get information real time or as near real time as possible? So, you know, reporting started to evolve along, you know, the same time continuums. And it grew from in-house reporting to now you could benchmark and, oh, my gosh, maybe we even have alerts that can tell you as things are happening versus a week after trying to recreate what went wrong.

Rob Haddock (10:12):

So, as I think about, you know, tech in a box or tech on one page, this seems to be, you know, inclusive of what most people either have or are aspiring to get to.

Scott Luton (10:24):

So, we’re going to, again, I’m a big visual learner, so I’m so glad that you mapped this out here. We — me and you and Rob and Will and Greg are going to dive in a little deeper to this. But I want to start, Will, we’ve kind of got a flavor for, you know, how Rob, the prism he sees the world through and some of what the progressive journey through over 40 years that the Coca-Cola company, some of his observations there. But, Will, you’ve spent about two decades helping organizations do things differently and do things better? Will, tell us a little bit about your background.

Will Chu (10:57):

Oh, yes. Let’s see. Software engineer by trade and education, so I studied computer science in school. And since graduating, I’ve had the opportunity and fortunate kind of circumstance to be with really high-powered engineering teams, getting to lead them. About 10 years ago, I became really interested in kind of my lifelong passion growing up, which I mean like any other, I think, I just loved trucks and loved the moving trucks. And trying to understand, like, how do supply chains merge together? Like where, what happens?

Will Chu (11:33):

And I spent a lot of time with one of my really good friends out in Oroville, California, Gabe Anders, from Shiflett Brothers. Shout out to Gabe. But really started me on this path were — we’re like, let’s start small and dream big. And what we did is we started with small Mom and Pop truck companies, helping them with communicating with their drivers, building out mobile apps to help accelerate proof of delivery, the collection, helping them get paid faster.

Will Chu (12:01):

So, that’s where we started. And it was an interesting time when you think about this decade when the Yale D mandate happened, and all of a sudden, every driver and their truck had connectivity. And that was such a formative moment for us in the industry that we’ve just continued and continued building. And then you fast forward to the pandemic where we saw, you know, it was just everything, right? You saw congestions at yard. You saw supply chains being super sensitive to making sure that their deliveries got on time. They didn’t have visibility of what was arriving, what was going out. And so, the confluence of those things really led us to where we are today.

Scott Luton (12:43):

I love that, and I love where you started. You love trucks and that’s kind of played out, that passion throughout your career, helping especially those Mom and Pop trucking companies do better and navigate some challenging times.

Scott Luton (12:54):

All right. So, Greg, before we keep driving with Rob and Will, we’ve got quite a collection of experienced and talent and passion here, right?

Greg White (13:02):

Yes. Well, first of all, we do have some years of expertise here, and its finally time that we have somebody who’s been in supply chain as long as we have, Scott. So, it’s good to have Rob here to prove that we’re not the only ones who use notebook, paper and pencil, right?

Scott Luton (13:20):

That’s right.

Greg White (13:20):

Or Lotus 1-2-3.

Scott Luton (13:22):

Man, I hadn’t heard that in —

Greg White (13:24):

No kidding.

Scott Luton (13:24):

— it’s been quite some time.

Greg White (13:25):

But it’s also good to see Will, kind of, this is the way you start companies is by solving problems for people and then evolving that technology to solve more and more complex problems as they reach those — as your customers reach that level of maturity, they reach those hurdles that cause them to get past those such simple problems into more complex problems. They couldn’t even have comprehended when you started working with them. And if you’ve got good vision, as a technology entrepreneur, that’s common and you get ahead of it. And that sounds like exactly where Will’s come from. We’ll double click on that.

Will Chu (14:00):

Yes, I mean —

Greg White (14:01):

That’s what we say in the tech game now. We’ll double click on that.

Will Chu (14:05):

You know, a combination of not just great vision but really great team. I have an incredible team that I get to work with and I have incredible mentors like Rob, who really have educated, not only me, but my teammates on what it’s like to run a massive logistics supply chain organization. I think having started with the small Mom and Pop guys, to be able to work and talk shop with Rob has been an — just an incredible, incredible journey, yes.

Scott Luton (14:31):

Will, great stuff there. All right. So, I’m going to circle back to Rob. So, Rob, you were, kind of, started speak to this a little bit. Clearly, as we were all referencing and celebrating, you’ve been around the block a couple of times, right? Seen just about all, right? Maybe a couple things, maybe outside. I — I’m not sure that what — I think you’ve seen it all, Rob. But when you think back to supply chain management in the ’90s or the early part of 2000s, what innovations come to mind that were big for you and your team?

Rob Haddock (15:02):

Well, I touched on it earlier. I think the idea of, you know, ERP systems and the Coke Company has been just wonderful and very innovative in terms of trying new supply chain technologies. And it continues to push the envelope as to what tools do we need to be successful to make sure that we’re satisfying customers as best possible with the lowest amount of disruption. I would say — and I, you know, I was just thinking about one of the stories that I had in — you know, ’96, I had responsibility for the Atlantic Olympic games and product supply of refrigerated products, and it was a frozen lemonade.

Rob Haddock (15:43):

And a decade prior, I would not have been able to pull off what I did, but, you know, you think about an Olympic venue that I think there was 17 to 20 Olympic venues, most of them were ad hoc, I had over a hundred refrigerated trailers scattered around the Atlanta area. And somehow, I had the tools needed to make sure that inventory was always where it needed to be. I didn’t lose any trailers. Nobody ran out of fuel. And I gave all the trailers back at the end of the day and, you know, it was a success.

Rob Haddock (16:19):

Now it was very crude and, you know, rudimentary, you know, planning tools that we had back then, but, you know, there was something. I couldn’t have done that on, you know, a piece of paper and a pencil back in the day. So, those — even though those early on tools look barbaric compared to where we are today, they were foundational enough to make it work.

Scott Luton (16:39):

And they’re also foundational to lead to what some of the modern technologies we’re using today. Will, when you hear stories like that — and man, I would — you could write a book, Rob, probably just on the ’96 Olympics and everything that went into that as we celebrated folks come around the world to the great city of Atlanta. What comes to your mind when you hear Rob tell stories about that in terms of that time period, the ’90s, early part 2000s and some innovations that came out of that timeframe?

Will Chu (17:08):

One, great musical time period. And I would say that the experiences and the — really, the foundation of supply chain was really built at that time, and it’s kind of the stuff that we get to ride the rails on. We get to stand on the shoulders of giants that really built out that infrastructure to find really the early days of collaboration when Rob talks about the trailers that he returned, right. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind that, ton of collaboration. And the ’90s, I imagined, there was a lot more fax, there is a lot more phone calls.

Will Chu (17:46):

And nowadays, it’s a lot more real time visibility. A lot more connectivity to drivers, whether it be mobile apps, mobile web, communicating over e-mail now, right? E-mail didn’t exist in the ’90s. So, lots have changed, I think, for the better. But you know, we wouldn’t be here today without that work that Rob and his colleagues put in.

Scott Luton (18:04):

You’re so true on a variety of levels, Will. And I love how you started with the golden — one of the golden ages of music internet period. All right. So, Greg, I want to come to you next. You know, kind of hearing what Rob talked — you know, spoke through with the Olympics and really just in a greater sense during that timeframe, and then Will, of course, kind of bridging how things were done then to how we do now. What’d you hear there, Greg?

Greg White (18:25):

Well, you know, I think about living through it, it’s almost — it seems like survival now. But at the time, you know, we thought we were way ahead of the game. We had this cool stuff called EDI and CPFR. We had all — all of your favorite acronyms, Scott, collaborative planning, forecasting and replenishment, which was introduced to the world by Walmart. And — but we still had things like handwritten or hand signed manifests, and proof of delivery, and all of those kinds of things where if we were lucky, we used this thing that most people probably don’t even know ever existed called a Telxon. If you were lucky, you could scan certain things to find out where they weren’t.

Scott Luton (19:09):

So, the glory days.

Greg White (19:11):

But — yes. I mean, you know, when you think about where we were and how many potential gaps there were in the supply chain that Rob, frankly, was ever able to pull off what he did with such a complex, chaotic ad hoc, entirely ad hoc scene in Atlanta, because everything was disrupted at that time, right? There were stuff where stuff wasn’t usually, there wasn’t stuff where there was stuff usually, and there was everybody on the streets all the time. And in an assemblage of buildings and towns and that sort of thing. To have been able to pull that off is really a testament of, I would say, overutilizing the technology of the day. And now, it feels like something like that would be ever so much more beautiful. So much easier, right?

Scott Luton (19:56):

Excellent.

Greg White (19:57):

So, yes, times have definitely changed but, you know, this is sort of the nature of technology is to attack these problems with the solutions you’ve got, discover what their gaps are and then evolve or innovate or revolutionize.

Scott Luton (20:11):

Rob, I think you were going to add something.

Rob Haddock (20:13):

I was going to say, Greg, I mean it’s not fair. There was no traffic. So, you can get anything done in Atlanta without traffic.

Greg White (20:20):

That’s a good point.

Scott Luton (20:20):

Oh, that is the — kidding aside, Greg, you and I, we’ve talked a lot in recent months how visibility more and more is becoming table stakes and — but we need answers and solutions more than we need visibility. Can you imagine in ’96, and Rob kind of implied it and referenced it, man, how you had to gain what visibility could be had at the time. So, Rob, we’re going to have to have you back and just dive into the Herculean project that was addressing the ’96 Olympics.

Scott Luton (20:46):

I want to move forward though. So, Rob, Will and Greg, some analysts may arguably say that a decade of 2010 to 2020, moving ahead a little bit, some say those years have been the most disruptive to global supply chains ever. Rob, your thoughts to that?

Rob Haddock (21:04):

I would agree, Scott. I mean, the expectations on supply chains and it really became apparent during the pandemic is the — there are no excuses for not being there on time or in full. And the amount of technologies available to everybody in the community has grown to the level where you — it’s very — I think it’s very difficult to sort through really what you need. If you do have a gap in your supply chain tech site, it’s like, all right, so what do I put in there to make it better and continue to drive a competitive advantage?

Rob Haddock (21:39):

The disruption, I think, will just continue because the moment that you think you have the right solution and you get it up and running and you’ve gone through all of the rigor to approve it and then start to change management, there’s something that’s probably better that’s already ready to launch. And now, you’re assessing, ah, gosh, do I have buyer’s remorse? Did I do the wrong thing? So, it, you know, disruptive from a global economic and the pandemic and fuel shortages, yes, it will continue. But solutions around visibility and where are my problems are becoming much more quicker to understand, and hopefully you’ve got corrective actions that start to mitigate the risk.

Scott Luton (22:19):

Well said. Yes, truckload of insights there from Rob. Will, when you think of what Rob just shared there in terms of how things evolved through that decade and really beyond, your thoughts, Will?

Will Chu (22:31):

Yes, I think you ever heard of the term never waste a crisis? I think we saw, and we still continues to see just disruptions in supply chain. We have geopolitical things going on. We have economic things going on. And I think the beauty of technology is that it can rapidly evolve. And I think choosing the right technology partner to continue to build and iterate with a supply chain team is going to be one of the most critical things that I think people consider when purchasing technology.

Will Chu (23:03):

When we worked with Rob — I started working with Rob three years ago, I think, in Paw Paw, Michigan, the solution that was there in Paw Paw, it’s no longer here at Vector. We rapidly evolved the platform to something different based on what we’ve learned and continue to learn. So, I think that technology is something that shouldn’t be considered as stagnant. And you really got to invest in the relationship team to continue building and continuing partnering together to solve the new problems that come up.

Scott Luton (23:34):

And we’re going to touch more on your — you all’s direct work together in the second half of the show, as well as some of the cool things that’s going on at Vector, Will, as you and your team continue to grow and expand.

Scott Luton (23:45):

All right. So, Greg, that 2010 to 2020, when you hear Rob and Will speak to that, the good and the bad and the ugly, perhaps, your thoughts?

Greg White (23:54):

Yes, I think about all the things that did change. The nature of commerce began the change, and the nature of commerce really began to accelerate, right? Amazon had really kicked off e-commerce, and up until that point it was pretty much a party trick. And most companies didn’t really deeply embrace it. I think about a company that used to have the most visited website on the planet Staples, believe it or not, in the ’90s and the 2000s, that’s where people got their office supplies was either in a Staple store or on their website.

Scott Luton (24:26):

There and Dunder Mifflin, right, Greg?

Greg White (24:28):

Yes, exactly. And I think about the acceleration of e-commerce during that time. So much technology moved to the Cloud. So, the acceleration that Will was talking about of innovation could occur much, much faster. You didn’t have to build it, test it, and then actually physically install it anymore. Starting around 2011 at least, that’s when my company got to the Cloud, so I think that had a big effect on it.

Greg White (24:56):

And then of course, yes, the pandemic. What the pandemic created was awareness, awareness of supply chain and of the native disruptions that constantly exist, as Rob alluded to, there are some disruptions that have always been in supply chain. But until the great toilet paper shortage of 2020, nobody gave a damn or even knew what supply chain was. So, now we have this awareness, what’s been seen cannot be unseen, and that will forever shape the future of technology adoption and acceleration and the awareness and evolution and revolution of supply chain.

Scott Luton (25:33):

I love that. And a lot of times, just say tinker’s damn, Greg. I think you left off tinker’s damn.

Greg White (25:36):

Did I forget that?

Scott Luton (25:37):

Yes, that’s one of your go-tos, man.

Greg White (25:38):

Sorry about that.

Scott Luton (25:39):

All right. So, I love —

Greg White (25:40):

I don’t think I got the damn in there. That’s what people really come here for.

Scott Luton (25:43):

Well that and the great toilet paper shortage always never fails to get a smile. I tell you what, we’re going to be talking about that for days, for years perhaps.

Greg White (25:50):

It’s — you know what, this is not a joke. That is a great cockpit cocktail discussion because people know instantly what you’re talking about when you talk about that. They really get — seriously, they really get how disruptive a time that was because it hit them, well, at home. Let’s put it that.

Scott Luton (26:08):

Putting it politely. All right. So, I want to shift back over to Rob because this next question, kind of — it really — everything, kind of, rolls up to this tidal wave of digital transformation. That’s really one of the things we’re really speaking to. The pace of change has been dizzying. We’ve wallowed in that in the last 15 minutes or so, technology though continues to transform, seems like sometimes minute by minute it feels. And for the good or for bad, oftentimes for the good, for global supply chain management. So, Rob, when you survey how companies and business leaders are navigating and responding to this tidal wave of digital transformation, what are several key thoughts that come to your mind?

Rob Haddock (26:50):

Well, Scott, I think there’s two things probably come to my mind. One is the Achilles of the current technology that we have out there, which, you know, what I think about the Achilles is that Excel is still, unfortunately, a crutch for many, many folks because it’s easy and you know where the data came from. And then when you think about data, most of these systems operate on master data. So, you can have best tools in the world, but if your master data is not at a certain level of quality, then you don’t get the results, and, oh, guess what, now people break out the Excel Spreadsheets and they’re doing the stuff the old-fashioned way, or the what makes them more comfortable. Unfortunately, when you do that, whatever results you get, you kind of own it and you’ve basically not gotten the investment back out of the tech that you wanted.

Rob Haddock (27:45):

The other thing I think is big challenge, Scott, is that there is so much technology and most organizations have a supply chain group, of course, they have a technology group. And then you’re dealing with suppliers who are basically saying, this tech will do this. And then you get it to where it needs to be, you get it operating, and then you’re looking for the results that come back out. And then you really don’t know if the results are there or not. Sometimes it’s glaring that they’re not, and sometimes it’s just marginal. But then you always wonder how well are my users adopting the technology, and how long will it take me to actually get results?

Rob Haddock (28:27):

There are things are somewhat plug and play, but the process of using the technology might take a little bit of change management. So, that’s where some of the misconceptions are is that, yes, I can plug it in, but if people aren’t using it the way that it was designed and leveraging the results that come out of the other end, then maybe you’re not getting — yes, you’re not getting what you paid for.

Scott Luton (28:48):

And then you waste a whole bunch of money. You waste — you cause a ton of heartburn and consternation within the organization. And of course, you can’t get that time back either.

Rob Haddock (28:58):

I’ve had a lot of technology successes and I’ve had some technology failures. And those — you hope that you learn something from it and you move on.

Scott Luton (29:09):

All right. So, Will, when you hear that, and the good old Excel Spreadsheets. Greg, I’ll tell you, we talk about Excel Spreadsheets all the time. Your thoughts on what Rob just shared in terms of how organizations are navigating through this sea of digital transformation?

Will Chu (29:22):

Yes, I think every organization is a little bit different. And I think there’s something I want to touch upon that Rob mentioned is the change management. Change management is so hard. Every company is nuanced in their processes. And oftentimes I think where technology products or companies fail is that they put out a product that really dictates a process. And for an organization to adhere to that process can be really difficult. And in terms of enterprise technology, the approach that we’ve taken is that we absorb a process. So, we go in and do quite a bit of discovery or work with the organization. Understand — it goes back to the roots, right? Like we went and first build technology for truck drivers. But you really have to get into, for us, like, it’s the warehouses and distribution centers. The yards. The welcome centers where these people live, eat, and breathe and really understand why they do certain things. And then adapt the technology to work with them on it.

Will Chu (30:24):

I’m a big believer in man machine symbiosis. I think there’s a lot of chatter about how machines are going to replace humans. And I think people miss the point. Technology should really augment us and make us a lot more impactful, a lot more powerful. So, that’s kind of how we see technology and the digital transformation that — that’s happening today.

Scott Luton (30:44):

I love that. Greg, I’m coming to you next. But that human machine symbiosis, and I did not do well in biology, so you all don’t hold that against me, Will, but that is a beautiful thought. And I tend to agree with you, lots of kindred spirits here. But, Greg, when you hear Rob and Will talk about how companies are responding and navigating, your thoughts?

Greg White (31:01):

Slowly. Way, way too slowly, honestly. I now deal with tech in a number of industries and supply chain is decidedly a laggard industry, and it is largely because of that refusal to change or adapt processes. It’s great. And you’re right, Will, to be successful, you have to adapt your technology to those processes. But some of — sometimes those processes are terrible. And at some point, we have to encourage. I think it will come down to either encourage or take over the processes for people who just refuse to do them properly.

Greg White (31:42):

And that’s where machines will create the efficiency, and then that will allow us as humans to do that thing we do so well, which is to interpolate what needs to be done or to do critical thinking when things don’t go as they’re supposed to, right? And that’s something that is very, very difficult, at least today for even artificial intelligence to do is to, with a complete lack of data, possibly, complete lack of data and an urgent and positive outcome required for the life or death of that shipment or that company or whatever situation that is to make that decision. So, I think this will upskill the people who remain in supply chain and will eventually have less brute force of an industry and more of an intellectual exercise in the industry.

Scott Luton (32:36):

And I think I learned a new word, Greg, interpolate.

Greg White (32:38):

I hope I used it right.

Scott Luton (32:40):

Interpolate, I love it. A combination. And I appreciate what —

Greg White (32:44):

Real word.

Scott Luton (32:45):

— other things you’ve shared. Hey, I want to bring in Dan. Dan, really appreciates that point that I think Will said earlier, you know, tech has to accommodate existing processes to a point, he says, to a point.

Scott Luton (32:58):

All right. In a second, we’re going to talk about some — a direct project that Will and Rob worked on together. Before I do, Rob, I’m hoping — and if it’s not something you can speak to, no worries, we can keep driving. But I loved your point a minute ago how you had a — you basically said you had a ton of technology project success, and then you had, as everyone does, some failures. Did you learn more — when you think of — when you think back through that, what taught you more, big wins or the big failures?

Rob Haddock (33:27):

Well, the big wins are supposed to — you know, things are supposed to work. You don’t get recognized so much for the things that work because when they work, the supply chain runs smooth and a smooth supply chain doesn’t get you in the press. I think you tie back, Greg, to what we said earlier, the press finally knows what supply chain is and it’s only because apparently, we weren’t doing it very well.

Greg White (33:52):

Right.

Rob Haddock (33:53):

And at least my family now knows what I’ve been doing for the last 40 years.

Greg White (33:56):

And people will talk to you at cocktail parties instead of just walk away, right?

Rob Haddock (34:01):

Yes, it’s like, oh, that’s what you supply chain people do. OK. Golly. Got it. But, you know, some of the things that didn’t go so well, you know, maybe it was an idea that was before it’s time. And you know, we weren’t getting results out of one application that we thought we should to, kind of, expand the reach of kind of end-to-end planning. And we learned from that experiment and we took a few notes. And then technologies, such as, Power BI and all of the in-house abilities that companies now have at their fingertips started to emerge. So, we thought, why don’t — rather than do this outsourcing, why don’t we try and replicate it in-house?

Rob Haddock (34:42):

So, we started small and grew — we grew it out and we’re having some successes from just that in-house development. But we were a little bit ahead of our time in terms of trying it but we learned, and then another wave of technology caught up and we thought, well, let’s run it through this meat grinder and see what happens.

Scott Luton (34:58):

All right. So, we’re going to have bring you back. There’s so much — when you think of 40 years again at the Coca-Cola Company and all that you are a part of, man, that’s going to be a great book at some point soon. But before I circle back to Will, Greg, I know you were chomping at the bit when Rob said something that we have — you and we have talked about for years about those supply chains that are in the news. That’s not necessarily where you want to be. Greg, comment real quick on that.

Greg White (35:26):

Yes, I can’t remember where else we’ve heard that. But, yes, of course, you want to be — if you are anonymous, your supply chain is working. And one other thing that Rob said that I’d like to acknowledge is it’s not always how the customer implements it, and I want to contrast that. So, first, tech founders and technological people can be more aspirational than actual in a lot of cases. They want the solution to do that. They may even believe that the solution can do that, but it absolutely can’t do that because of — at various times lacks of lack of data, which is often what we mean when we say ahead of its time. We didn’t have the data to support it or whatever.

Greg White (36:08):

But also — I mean, there is a certain aspect of, I would just say, over repeat as a technology founder. What I like about what the way Will talks about this is he is very grounded in what needs to be done, how to get it done out of the gate because to the point — I’m sorry, I didn’t see who made it, we need to adopt up to a point. And the point that we need to have the technology adopt old processes is to get those wins that allow us to maintain the usage that Rob was talking about that is so critical. And then to see that the world can be different and then we can start to introduce a more structured approach to these people to say, hey, you changed this one little thing and the whole world opened up to you. You could also change this one little thing and reach a whole another level of performance.

Greg White (37:01):

So, if you work towards those sorts of small wins as a technology implementer, that’s where you create the adoption that Rob was talking about is sometimes lacking. And you get the kind of leverage off of the adaptability that Will has been talking about.

Scott Luton (37:16):

Well said. Hey, really quick. I’m going to shift gears here. I want to — Antoine makes a great point. Even in supply chain transformation, the business focus has got to be key. It’s got to solve the business objectives and the business problems. What we doing here.

Scott Luton (37:30):

All right. Will, I’m about to ask you and Rob about this contactless standard initiative. But I’m thinking, you know, I was going to ask you just to make sure we’re clear about what Vector does here in a second, but I think for context, I’m going to pull that question forward. And if you could, in a nutshell, before we talk about this initiative, tell us what Vector does in a nutshell, Will.

Will Chu (37:50):

Yes, we’re a yard management system that establishes connectivity to, vendors, the drivers. We see the yard as physical place where collaboration happens every day. And we’re digitizing those processes so that drivers can get in and out faster so that upstream partners get visibility on the delivery, downstream partners get visibility on when something is being shipped out.

Scott Luton (38:20):

Love that. I love you all’s focus on the driver experience, as well as providing the visibility for — across the ecosystem and a lot more. So, now that we’ve got that context — and thank you for that, Will. Rob, I want to switch gears. We were talking about tackling all these challenges a second ago. You and Will and you all with your respective teams collaborated on a project focused on this contactless standard, which really drove a lot of big outcomes. Rob, tell us about that.

Rob Haddock (38:46):

Well, the idea, I think, came from one of our senior leaders had a conversation with Will at some point in time, and timing was prior to the pandemic. And the idea about touchless fills of lading was part of the conversation where a driver really wouldn’t have to go and talk to anybody. They could just come into a yard, they could get into a dock, and they could leave electronically and not have to speak with anyone and have the right paper works. When they got to the destination, they could get offloaded, et cetera.

Rob Haddock (39:21):

So, we were asked to go ahead and take a peek at it, and this was actually as the pandemic was starting to kick in. We thought, what a great way to keep drivers safe as they’re coming and going from the facilities, and thousands of drivers are coming and going from facilities every day, and there’s the driver welcome center that they have to navigate through and whomever else they may be, you know, interfacing with on the dock. And when the pandemic kicked in and nobody knew how things were being, you know, passed along, gosh, we got to keep these drivers safe.

Rob Haddock (39:55):

So, that really started to get our thoughts going as to how can we — the drivers moving quickly and how can we keep them safe because we’ve done the studies that a driverless or — excuse me, a touchless bill of lading takes about 30 minutes to get in and out. Whereas if you got to go through all the, find the right window to get the right paperwork, yada, yada, you know, you could base another hour and a half. So, there’s a deficiency play and a safety play here.

Rob Haddock (40:25):

So, we started at Paw Paw, Michigan and Waco, Texas. We’re now up to six or seven locations in the network in the Coke system and continuing to learn and then starting to get customers on the other end, accepting something that is now no paper involved. And if you think about it, I mean, every day we have small packages that we’re waiting for anxiously to arrive. Is there any paperwork? Maybe 10 years ago, there was always this piece of paperwork that you had to sign for. Now, your ring camera just tells you that the driver has stopped off and you’ve got a magic box at your front door. So, why not take that idea and apply it to truckload and LTL shipments?

Scott Luton (41:05):

Oh, man. I love this. All right. So, Will, I’ll get your take on this project?

Will Chu (41:11):

Yes, it’s been an incredible partnership. I think in the early days we struggled to get adoption from carriers. It was difficult to not only change the driver’s behaviors, but even internally at Coca-Cola there’s a little bit of training involved. And I would say that today we still continue to learn and get to work with Rob’s former team every day, which is amazing. And we’re scoring some big wins at some facilities today.

Will Chu (41:38):

Every single driver is using Vector to get in and out to see where we are now from where we used to be, it’s just night and day. And a lot of that is driven by not only just business processes change, but I.T. changes. Our team led by Abby, Anthony, Ben, Brian, we got a recent win where we’re able to integrate with OTM, and I’ve never been more excited to have that integration with OTM at Coca-Cola. When we got that 200 OK response back, I mean, we were just high fiving each other, they’re jumping for joy. Because it — that integration makes the lives of people easier. It’s no more double entry. Data’s flowing back and forth. But not only that, I think it was just a giant signal that the I.T. team was willing to invest in this relationship. Because when you first go into a large organization like Coca-Cola, they’re going to like, let’s see what you can do. Let’s see if this is, you know, real —

Scott Luton (42:36):

Right. We’ve heard it all, right?

Will Chu (42:38):

Yes. That is — to what Greg said earlier. And so, for them to step in and say, hey, yes, this makes sense. There’s value here. We cared just as much about that as the actual outcome. So, it’s — it continues to be an awesome partnership between Vector and Coca-Cola.

Scott Luton (42:54):

Love that. Greg, I’m coming to you next. But before I do, I’m over here on one of my seven screens and I’m on the Vector site with vector.com. And I love how you feature some quotes from drivers where — and some of your other relationships. We’re making life easier for them. Braxton’s talking about, I wish all pickups were this easy. Checking in was a breeze. I like this technology. Man, that’s got to be some day — that — that’s music to my ears referencing the front half of our conversation.

Scott Luton (43:20):

All right. Greg, your thoughts here on what Rob and will have been talking about with this contactless standard initiative?

Greg White (43:26):

Well, in an instant I got exactly when he talked about OTM. Is that right? Is that what you said, right?

Will Chu (43:34):

Yes. Yes sir.

Greg White (43:35):

I got why he was so excited to make the band. You are a — you are made for supply chain because we all get so excited about those little victories that are so transformative. And I think, look, we just talked about stuff like EDI and Cloud and all this other stuff, but sometimes just those simple connections are what change. They change the trajectory of a supply chain. And so, those are meaningful things. While they, you know, they seem — they are geeky and we’re all supply chain geeks, so we can say that. But those are the kind of things that you should get excited about because they open doors that previously could not be opened. And I think that is — those little things are really cool to hear about.

Greg White (44:18):

I think other than that, just the ability to press supply chain professionals of any role forward with a crisis really what it takes. I mean, as we’ve talked about, this is a very laggard industry and it almost has to cause a break before we’re going to do anything about it. Because when you think about the mindset of supply chain, it is — it’s a big Jenga tower, right? You’re afraid to change anything lest the whole thing fall down. And once the whole thing has fallen down, you can really, really start to transform your supply chain and build it in a better way. And nothing made it fall down like the seismic societal disruption of the Covid lockdowns, and the impact on labor and momentum, just economic momentum in all of those sorts of things.

Greg White (45:14):

So, I think we discovered a lot of things, and we talked about this probably in late ’21 or early ’22, a lot of us in the supply chain longed to go back to the old way, right? Longed for that old normal or new normal, anything normal. The truth is the supply chain will never be normal again because of that awareness we talked about. Now, consumers, lawyers, and even politicians, the lowest forms of life on the planet know what’s supply chain is and how it should work.

Greg White (45:46):

So, you know, I think we have to recognize that things will never ever be the same again because that awareness, what’s seen is cannot be unseen, right? So, that — you two, particularly with this project and just generally with the way that you have run your careers and companies that you see that and see that the constant evolution needs to occur, but also requires a delicate balance while we’re working through the sort of laggard nature of our adoption in this industry. That’s incredibly powerful. And yes, I’m happy for what you guys are accomplishing and have accomplished and will continue to accomplish because it’s going to be big.

Scott Luton (46:26):

That right. It’s consequential. And Rob, I saw you sneak a drink. I need a caffeine-free diet Coke right now. That’s my favorite out of all the inventory. That’s my favorite.

Greg White (46:33):

I don’t even know what the point of caffeine-free diet coke is.

Rob Haddock (46:38):

All right. All right.

Rob Haddock (46:40):

Hey, Scott, there’s one more benefit that we believe is on the horizon when critical mass continues to grow. And if you think about proof of deliveries, if you’re aware of what happens in today’s world, there’s a discrepancy on a delivery and somebody wanders to the catacombs to find a box of old bills of lading, to see what scribble was put on there, and you know, eventually something happens or nothing happens. But you know, in this workflow environment, digital records of the pickup, the delivery are all available in the Clouds by just typing it in. So, that’d be another benefit long term where you don’t have to keep all these reams of paper around.

Scott Luton (47:22):

Man, new chapters to this ongoing story and partnership. Music to my ears, Will and Rob and Greg. OK. So, moving right along, I want to do this. I want to end on an optimistic note. We got to break out Ray Bands or whatever your sunglasses of choice are, right? Because the future is bright despite the challenges we’ve got, leading organizations are doing what we’re hearing here. They’re leaning into the challenge and they’re making sure that especially for the folks that are perhaps arguably some of the most underrecognized critical parts of global supply chain, they’re making life easier for them. And that’s so important. That’s part of the good news here.

Scott Luton (47:59):

So, what — if you had to narrow it down to one topic or innovation or development and global supply chain that we got to keep on our radars as part of this short-term future, what would that be? And, Will, I start with you here.

Will Chu (48:13):

Oh, logistics is the most beautiful team sport that’s played right now and ever. And team sport needs collaboration, and I see technology is a great enabler of that collaboration. It makes things easier. It takes the hard — hardship and friction out of sharing data and communication out of the equation. So, I believe in that. I believe the yard today is one of the most exciting places in supply chain because that’s where the physical collaboration happens. And we started this conversation with Rob sharing that he played bagpipes at the carrier conference, right? At Coca-Cola’s carrier conference. And it’s a beautiful thing. It shows how much relationships and working together means in this industry. You know, I think in that room, Rob was amongst friends, colleagues and partners. And I see technology as bringing those people closer together.

Scott Luton (49:06):

Will, man, you strike me as a painter or a graphical artist, too. I love the picture you just painted there. I’m kindred — a lot of kindred spirits amongst, I think, this foursome here.

Scott Luton (49:16):

All right. So, Rob, when you think about, again, the short-term future, you know, Will look — really looked at that yard and logistics tech as something to keep on our radar, your thoughts, Rob?

Rob Haddock (49:26):

You know, one of the things I thought would be really cool is, you know, in my prior existence, if I were driving to work and I could get a low down of everything that happened the day before or risk that was ahead of me. And I thought — just like we ask Siri or Alexa, why couldn’t we ask Cleopatra, my supply chain helper, just gimme a low down. Hey, Cleopatra, what am I walking into today? Because you think about A.I. and A.I. hopefully will bring all of the alerts to the top or to the front — forefront. But what if I had the Jarvis equivalent, we’ll pick on Ironman, to articulate it? And if I had follow-up questions, I could go ahead and verbalize them and by the time I got to the office, I would be a lot better prepared.

Scott Luton (50:18):

I love that picture you paint Rob.

Scott Luton (50:21):

All right. Greg, between Will and Rob, we’re going to have to have them back for another hour, soon. But your quick thought, Greg, on how bright the future is, perhaps?

Greg White (50:31):

Well, I mean, with folks like Rob and Will, I think it’s very bright. I mean, somebody has to press us into the future and it will be press and pressure that drive us into the future. But I think there are so many companies like Will’s that are doing arguably niche things that impact the entirety of the supply chain. And I think the power of that, it — it’s difficult to understand, right? I think of the supply chain as kind of like animal farm. All supply chain professionals are underappreciated, some are just unappreciated more than others. But I think it — when you think about the wealth of data that we have today and the technologies that can be applied in supply chain today, and people with both the experience that Rob has and the — I almost said willpower, just the power, we’ll just call it power since it is willpower, just the power that Will has to be able to interpret that and turn it into solutions. That’s exactly what we need to be doing. We need to be finding these problems, solving and moving to the next problem.

Greg White (51:44):

And along the way, also, to Rob your point, trying to preempt those, this is something that when we talk every month with Mike Griswold, he reminds me of this whole notion we have in supply chain of rewarding the arsonist, right? We allow our supply chains to be fragile, they break, and then we reward ourselves for surviving that break and keeping the trains running relatively on time, or in Will’s case trucks. But I think that preemptive notion is a critical thing to — for us to evolve to rapidly, and that will really start to change things. Where Rob is on his way into work, and he’s not hearing about what went wrong and how it — he can solve it or what’s going to go wrong. He’s hearing about how technology or technology enabled his people to keep something from going wrong and why he’s not in the news today.

Scott Luton (52:39):

All right. So, Fast Furious finish here, and that’s the first George Orwell reference, I think, on — I don’t know, 1400 episodes here at Supply Chain Now. So, I love that. Loving them farm.

Scott Luton (52:48):

All right. So, first off, I want to share resources with you all. We’ve got a great article and resource from our friends at Vector focused on the importance of driver experience and supply chain efficiency. So, you all check that out. I’m dropping a link to that in the chat. Will, how can folks connect with you and the Vector team?

Will Chu (53:08):

Yes, I’m — you find me on LinkedIn, always there. And then our website is vector.com.

Scott Luton (53:15):

Outstanding. You all check that out. You’re — you all are going to love the quotes that I was pointing out earlier, and other resources there. Digital workflows across the supply chain. Love that.

Scott Luton (53:24):

All right. Rob, my hunch is you’re staying really busy and I hope we do get a book soon. I can’t wait to get some a little — a lot more stories of over four decades with Coca-Cola Company. What are you up to now and how can folks connect with you, Rob?

Rob Haddock (53:37):

Well, there is a book on the horizon with another co-author. So, we can talk more about that in the future, Scott. But I — I am staying engaged. I’m very passionate about shippers, being better shippers of choice. I believe that there’s a need for understanding your transportation resiliency readiness, and I’m very passionate about the tech stack and how do you get the most out of your investments.

Scott Luton (54:01):

I was —

Rob Haddock (54:03):

I’m available on LinkedIn as well.

Scott Luton (54:04):

OK. And we’re going to drop — I think we’re dropping the link to the article I mentioned earlier as well as LinkedIn and other connections where Will — for willpower. New comic book, Superhero Will and Rob here in just a second.

Scott Luton (54:17):

All right. So, Greg, as we wrap up here, we’re going to be a minute or two over, but you’re — if folks leave this and forget everything else, what’s the one thought they got to keep front and center, Greg?

Greg White (54:26):

Yes, this is the — if you are a technology founder, this is the power of engaging deeply with your customers and learning about the problems that you’re solving at a great level of depth and leveraging that into advancing your technology. Because in the end, you might be really, really visionary technologist, but vision isn’t what sells technology, operationalism execution, nearing it. It’s the stuff that people want that sells technology, right? And I think the other thing is I would encourage other clients or whoever buys technology or any sort of supply chain solution to engage as deeply with your suppliers and providers and solutioneers as Rob has, and get the most out of that technology, right? I mean, don’t make it a battle. Make it a collaboration like they have and it will go so much farther.

Scott Luton (55:23):

Well said, Greg. Get that friction out of there and Will was talking about earlier, right? Life’s too short. All right. Big thanks to Rob Haddock, formerly — over four decades with the Coca-Cola company. Rob, thanks for joining us.

Rob Haddock (55:34):

Thank you.

Scott Luton (55:35):

And Will Shu, CEO and co-founder with Vector. Will, I love the story you and the team are building. And Greg and I both are big fans. And you all keep, keep moving those mountains and we look forward to reconnecting with you soon, Will.

Will Chu (55:46):

Thank you so much for having us.

Scott Luton (55:48):

You bet. All right. Folks, connect with Will and Rob. Greg, always a pleasure. What a great story to share with our global audience here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks for being a part.

Greg White (55:58):

Oh, yes. My pleasure. You’re thanking me? Oh, thank you.

Scott Luton (56:00):

Yes, I’m thanking you.

Greg White (56:01):

And thanks to Rob and Will for showing up.

Scott Luton (56:03):

Especially the dramatic. We’re going to have to have you dial in from the dramatic studio again soon. But folks, hey, now the onus is on you right now that you’ve heard what Rob and Will and even Greg, and some folks in the comment said, well, what they’re doing make life easier for all parts. All important people in the supply chain ecosystem. That human machine symbiosis that will was talking about. Massive opportunities, but you got to take action. Deeds not words. One — with that said, on behalf our entire team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton challenging you to do good, to give forward, and to be the change. And we’ll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (56:42):

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.