[00:00:00] Laura Rainier: This year our macro trends are autonomous workforce. And so autonomous workforce really looks at, um, you know, not necessarily a team of robots, right? But actually how do people and machines work together in this future, and how do we prepare people?

[00:00:14] Laura Rainier: Um, you know, going bigger than just preparing them with digital or AI literacy, but actually how do we help people think about, um, the system, right? How do we build that systems thinking capability? Um, how do we enable people to orchestrate across the supply chain, um, as they’re kind of working alongside agents? 

[00:00:34] Laura Rainier: And so I ​

[00:00:48] Scott W Luton: Hey, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and always special co-host Mike Griswold with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s show. Mike, how you doing today?

[00:00:58] Mike Griswold: Doing well, Scott. Thanks. I’m ex- super excited for the topic and to have Laura join us to talk about Gartner’s Supply Chain Top 25

[00:01:07] Scott W Luton: Hey, that makes two of us. I think this, as much as I enjoyed our last episode where we focused on, uh, vacation-themed supply chain lessons, that was a lot of fun.

[00:01:16] Mike Griswold: It was

[00:01:18] Scott W Luton: this is gonna surpass that great episode here today, bringing back one of our faves. So folks, today we’re continuing one of our longest running and most popular series, Supply Chain Today and Tomorrow, with Mike Griswold from Gartner.

[00:01:31] Scott W Luton: Mike, of course, serves as vice president analyst with Gartner. And today, as Mike has mentioned, we got a special repeat guest as we dive into a variety of learnings and key takeaways from the Gartner Supply Chain Top 25 for 2026. Looking forward to lots of takeaways that’s gonna drive conversations across the globe here today.

[00:01:52] Scott W Luton: Mike, this is one of our, I think our favorite discussions each year. We can almost plan our summers around it, it seems. Uh, are you ready to go?

[00:02:02] Mike Griswold: Uh, I am. This, uh, it’s as much excitement as well as just, I think there’s a lot to learn from these leading companies, and I know at the end we’ll get to kind of how people react to the list, uh, and the companies that we talk about. So yeah, it’s gonna be a great show

[00:02:21] Scott W Luton: I’m with you. Uh, I’ll, uh, echo all of those items. Okay. Well, I, I wanna introduce once again a wonderful repeat guest here today. Laura Rainier is a senior director analyst in the talent and sustainability team at Gartner. Her research interests include sustainable supply chain, circular economy, responsible sourcing, and supply chain climate strategies.

[00:02:46] Scott W Luton: She helps industry leaders better understand and apply sustainability principles within the supply chain and in alignment with their organizational requirements and goals. Now, before joining Gartner, Laura worked for a global supply chain solutions provider in the areas of, as you might have guessed, supply chain sustainability, circular economy, responsible sourcing, and diversity, equity, and inclusion.

[00:03:11] Scott W Luton: She has also served on the steering committee of key business and multi-stakeholder initiatives, including the Global Fashion Agenda and the United Nations International Labor Organization’s Global Business Network on Forced Labor. So with all that said and a whole bunch more, I wanna welcome in Laura Rainier, senior director analyst with Gartner. how you doing today?

[00:03:34] Laura Rainier: I’m doing well, Scott. Thank you for having me

[00:03:37] Scott W Luton: Well, it is wonderful to have you back. And Mikey, uh, Mike, thanks so much for bringing your very smart colleagues and friends to the show

[00:03:45] Mike Griswold: Well, it, it’s hard, Scott, because I have a lot of smart colleagues and, you know, finding the right one at the right time, uh, can be challenging. But, you know, it’s this time of year that I think people want to dissect the top 25, and Laura’s the perfect person to help us with that discussion

[00:04:03] Scott W Luton: Outstanding. Laura, that’s high praise from the one and only Mike Griswold, huh?

[00:04:08] Laura Rainier: Absolutely. Well received. Thank you, Mike.

[00:04:11] Scott W Luton: Well, so, you know, as I’ve mentioned a couple times, we love repeat guests around here. Laura, we really enjoyed our discussion we had. Get this, I did, ’cause I did the homework. I did the math, and math asks a lot. If I’m doing math, I’m taking on lots of challenging things, but I did my homework. about two years ago, Laura, is when we, you and I recorded this podcast episode, and we entitled it, “Living in a Resource-Constrained World: Analysis and Solutions,” uh, featuring Laura Rainier.

[00:04:41] Scott W Luton: And we had a great conversation, had a lot of good feedback around that. I can’t believe that was two years ago ’cause it feels like seven years ago. But Laura, all that leads me to my fun warm-up question. You know, that’s been a very active two years. I’m thinking of my own personal journey. I bet it’s been a busy one for you.

[00:05:00] Scott W Luton: Whether it’s professional or personal, what’s one of your favorite highlights in the two years since you joined us last?

[00:05:06] Laura Rainier: Yeah. You know, um, I will say on the personal side, I just celebrated my youngest daughter’s preschool graduation. And so I’ll start there just on the fun side. But I think in terms of kind of, um, the professional side, I would say having the opportunity to expand coverage and focus on the future of supply chain, which is a big, um, research project here at Partner, um, as well as the top 25, which we’ll discuss today, right?

[00:05:32] Laura Rainier: So that, that opportunity to think about, um, kind of broader supply chain strategy, um, and, and how some of these issues that, uh, we discussed a couple of years ago kind of play into that broader supply chain strategy has been really exciting.

[00:05:45] Scott W Luton: Outstanding. Well, congrats to your daughter, number one. And number two, I can’t remember what group sang it, but we can’t stop thinking about the future, and I love your pivot and look forward to learning from your perspective

[00:05:56] Laura Rainier: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:56] Scott W Luton: today. Um, and Mike, I know you’ve had a busy couple years. What’s the first thought and highlight that comes to your mind?

[00:06:03] Mike Griswold: Yeah, I, I’ve got two similar to Laura. On the personal side, my wife and I two years ago took a trip to Scotland that combined playing golf, whiskey, and watching women’s golf. So the Women’s British Open was at St. Andrews. Uh, so we were in Scotland for a couple of weeks and were able to do that. On the, on the Gartner side, I think for me over the last couple years, being able to be involved with our keynote process and working with Lindsay Azim, who’s been on your show, to talk about the keynote, uh, and then Alan O’Keefe, who’s on my team now, delivering, uh, both Lindsay and Alan both delivering the keynotes this year.

[00:06:46] Mike Griswold: Just to see the growth in the process, but also the growth in the insights that we provide, um, our CSCOs and others at our events, uh, has been really, really cool to see

[00:06:57] Scott W Luton: I bet it has. And, uh, you know, Lindsay loved her appearance here. Of course, we heard big things about our opening keynote at Supply Chain Symposium this year. I missed it, Laura and Mike. I was working. I was working

[00:07:09] Scott W Luton: way too hard. 

[00:07:10] Mike Griswold: Yes

[00:07:11] Scott W Luton: but I’m, you know, a lot of folks that connect the dots and didn’t miss that episode, I heard a lot of great feedback.

[00:07:16] Scott W Luton: So, um, anyway, uh, it’s great to have you both here, and I can’t wait to dive into, uh, what’s become a great vehicle, uh, over the years to drive many, many discussions across global supply chain circles everywhere, and that’s the Gartner Supply Chain Top 25. So, Laura, I thought we’d start with some of the top macro trends, uh, that, um, y’all have identified out across global supply chain and certainly factor into and impact all the companies that make up, uh, this year’s Top 25.

[00:07:47] Scott W Luton: So, Laura, where would you start there with those macro trends?

[00:07:50] Laura Rainier: Absolutely. So what we often, like, get asked, right, as we talk about the top 25 is, um, how do I learn from the top 25, right? Maybe I’m not a leading company, um, or maybe I don’t have the resources that some of these leaders do, but, um, what should I take away? And so I think the biggest and, um, you know, h- most helpful takeaway is really looking at what we call the macro trends, which is kind of those differentiating capabilities that, um, separate, right, or that, or rather that, that we see those top supply chains deploying and, and leveraging and investing in, right?

[00:08:26] Laura Rainier: And so each year we come up with three macro trends. Um, this year our macro trends are autonomous workforce. And so autonomous workforce really looks at, um, you know, not necessarily a team of robots, right? But actually how do people and machines work together in this future, and how do we prepare people?

[00:08:43] Laura Rainier: Um, you know, going bigger than just preparing them with digital or AI literacy, but actually how do we help people think about, um, the system, right? How do we build that systems thinking capability? Um, how do we enable people to orchestrate across the supply chain, um, as they’re kind of working alongside agents?

[00:09:03] Laura Rainier: And so I think some really kind of mature and interesting approaches to, um, due to shifting, right, for this new kind of autonomous operations era. Um, so that’s one, right? Autonomous operations

[00:09:14] Scott W Luton: So Laura, can I, um, we c- as you know, we could probably spend at least the rest of the

[00:09:20] Laura Rainier: Sorry.

[00:09:20] Scott W Luton: and then some on that topic. Mike, we talk a lot about this theme, and I love how Laura put it because it’s a combination of the beautiful human factor teaming up with the incredible golden age of supply chain tech and doing bigger things together. But your thoughts on that first big macro trend, Mike

[00:09:38] Mike Griswold: We can probably ask Laura at some point if we want to put her on the spot and say which of the three are the most important. And, and I think Laura will probably tell us they’re all important. I do think, though, based on conversations you and I have had over time, Scott, around the importance of people, right?

[00:09:53] Mike Griswold: Whether it’s hiring people, retaining people, attracting people, keeping people, whatever it might be, that there is an undercurrent of you need– you’re going to need people. And I think this, this autonomous operations perspective that Laura’s describing, I think the important factor here is that, you know, there are still people involved.

[00:10:15] Mike Griswold: And there’s lots of discussions that we’re having on, on my team around the role that people play. I was talking to someone the other day, and, and they had a very interesting perspective, which is how do we move organizations from AI experimentation to enterprise value? And I think what’s gonna underpin that are people, right?

[00:10:38] Mike Griswold: And understanding kind of the role that people will need to play in this process. It’s not a question of are people gonna play a role? It’s a question of what’s the best use of people in this new environment that’s gonna create the most value for the organization?

[00:10:58] Scott W Luton: Mm. Well said. You know, I was talking to a, a CSCO over here recently, done big things in the industry, and as we were working through our interview, Laura and Mike, caught on quickly that in the first 10 minutes he was, uh, uh, mentioning the accomplishments of, of the supply chain industry, and I think he said, “Thanks to the people,” three or four times,

[00:11:20] Scott W Luton: right? And it really, he, he wa- you know, it was part of his conversation, but I could tell that’s where his, his mind was, and it really echoes your sentiment there, Mike, and yours as well, Laura. So,

[00:11:30] Laura Rainier: Mhm.

[00:11:31] Scott W Luton: all right. So w- we could stay there all time, uh, the whole show, but the two of the macro trends, I think the next one, Laura, I believe, network-centric strategies.

[00:11:39] Scott W Luton: Is that right?

[00:11:40] Laura Rainier: That’s right, network-centric strategies. And so this is where, um, you know, I think if we were to put these trends in context, we think about kind of two big drivers, autonomous operations and just global volatility, right? And this network-centric strategies is one that kind of navigates, leverages one in order to navigate the other, right?

[00:11:58] Laura Rainier: Um, and so real focus on as we build our strategies and as we navigate a real volatile and uncertain global world, um, how do we ensure that our supply network is really at the core of that strategy, right? That as we’re making those decisions, we’re considering the supply chain network as a differentiator and a driver of growth.

[00:12:16] Laura Rainier: And then also ensuring that we’re designing that network to be adaptable and to flex as conditions change. And that sort of proactive approach to, um, an adaptable supply network, I think is a key part of this network-centric strategy, um, piece.

[00:12:32] Scott W Luton: I agree. Flexibility is a great thing. Mike, I’m gonna go ahead and, and, and finish out, because good things come in three. I’m gonna go ahead and prompt Laura to share this third macro trend, which I believe is end-to-end supply orchestration, Laura, if I’ve got that right. And then I’m gonna invite your comments, Mike.

[00:12:48] Scott W Luton: So tell us about the third macro trend, Laura

[00:12:50] Laura Rainier: Definitely. I think this kind of end-to-end supply orchestration is, is really a don’t go it alone, right? Again, we’re dealing with global volatility, and so how do we navigate that more effectively with our value chain partners? And so that might include everything from kind of multi-tier visibility, right?

[00:13:08] Laura Rainier: So that we can start to, to really understand what’s happening further up our supply chain and respond more quickly. Um, but also circular strategies, right? Uh, which kind of takes us back to that discussion we had a couple years ago. How do we utilize supply more effectively, um, and, and capture more value out of that supply in order to, um, you know, navigate an environment with more choke points and more constraints.

[00:13:31] Laura Rainier: Um, and so, um, some interesting strategies here, I think we’re seeing things like collaborative planning or forecasting across an ecosystem level as opposed to at a single node, um, or, you know, individual organization so that we can optimize at that value chain level and mitigate some of the volatility that might happen across the value chain, 

[00:13:50] Scott W Luton: Laura, uh, flexibility and then where you started that orchestration, you know, don’t

[00:13:54] Laura Rainier: 嗯。

[00:13:55] Laura Rainier: 嗯。 

[00:13:55] Scott W Luton: right? Uh, Mike, what do you think when you hear those two other macro trends, network-centric strategies, end-to-end supply orchestration, your thoughts?

[00:14:05] Mike Griswold: It’s, it’s really about when we think about tho- those two kind of together, it’s about, you know, one of the other words that we talk about a lot across the supply chain is resiliency, right? One of the things we learned through the pandemic was the, the challenges of having kind of a, a singular view of your supply chain, right?

[00:14:30] Mike Griswold: It’s my supply chain and just my supply chain, and that’s all I have to worry about. I think what we’ve learned through our research on this idea of ecosystems and this idea of networks is you really, if you wanna be resilient and be able to do a better job of handling disruptions, you need to think about your network and your ecosystem kind of together, right?

[00:14:52] Mike Griswold: So that you’re designing a network that is reflective of your entire ecosystem, not just what we maybe would’ve thought of in the past, which is just my own little, my own little piece of the world. And as supply chains become and continue to become more global, and as, as Laura alluded to, I think we have more and more, you know, global pressures applied to supply chains.

[00:15:19] Mike Griswold: You, you can’t go it alone. You have to think about things from an ecosystem perspective, and how you think about that ecosystem should be one of the things that you think about when you’re designing your network. So they, they go hand in hand, at least we think they do

[00:15:35] Scott W Luton: Yep.

[00:15:35] Laura Rainier: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:35] Scott W Luton: Well, you know, uh, something you said there, um, I guess you could go it alone, just like you could drive a car with one flat tire everyday, but you’re not gonna get very far,

[00:15:47] Mike Griswold: Right

[00:15:47] Scott W Luton: really not gonna be a good drive or good ride. Um, okay. So Laura, I wanna bring it home, uh, and kinda give some concrete examples of how these, these three macro trends, uh, are playing out in the industry, especially in the Gartner Supply Chain Top 25.

[00:16:02] Scott W Luton: And folks, we’re gonna include the link where you can download a report, you can see all the companies in Top 25 and the Masters, and see some of the analysis that Laura, Mike, and the team share. We’re gonna include that link in the notes so you can go check it out. But when you– Laura, uh, how, how do you see these macro trends playing out in the industry and in the Top 25?

[00:16:19] Laura Rainier: Yeah, absolutely. I’d say if I start maybe from the last one and go forward, right? This end-to-end supply orchestration. Um, a, a handful of different ways that we see it applied, uh, but I think one of the really interesting ones is this concept of, um, shared forecasting across the ecosystem, right? And so where we see, um, for example, you know, Unilever’s Project Sky, where they are, um, sharing forecasting data with their upstream partners in order to just have that same information, that same data across the full end-to-end supply chain so that as…

[00:16:56] Laura Rainier: And, and this is really, um, intended to kind of navigate volatile supply, right? And so that it’s sort of reducing that bullwhip effect that often can happen throughout the supply chain, so that we’re actually ultimately reducing wasted product, right? Um, because we don’t need that safety stock on top of safety stock, um, you know, all the way throughout that, that supply chain ecosystem.

[00:17:17] Laura Rainier: And so thinking about that idea of kind of how do we optimize, uh, supply across the end-to-end supply chain, um, in a way that actually enables us to optimize cost, right, of course, as well, um, across the end-to-end supply chain. Um, I could talk for hours about that one, but I’ll leave it there for now. Um, I don’t know that we have that long.

[00:17:37] Laura Rainier: Um, but yeah, I think some, some interesting examples of, of each of these, I think, um, you know, network centricity and sort of this adaptable supply network is one that we see, um, a whole host of organizations really investing in. I think I might point to, to Amazon and kind of their approach to really, um, truly investing very deeply in expanding their network to be closer to customer, to enable that distribution, to just completely lean into their last mile, um, delivery, which is always a differentiator for Amazon, but I think one that they’re continuing to build on.

[00:18:12] Laura Rainier: Um, yeah. And then, um, in, in terms of autonomous workforce, I think there’s, there’s, um, again, kind of a, a few different ways that we can kind of see this manifest within organizations. Uh, one of them, I would say, is, um, the focus on kind of process optimization before we get into actual delivery of like implementation of AI, right?

[00:18:38] Laura Rainier: And so rather than kind of augmenting existing processes, we’re seeing organizations start to really be focused on ensuring that the processes are right and that they’re solving the right problems, and that they’re considering the AI in those processes. Um, and, and really that kind of reinvention focus.

[00:18:54] Laura Rainier: And, you know, I would point to Schneider Electric as, you know, a leader who’s really doing some interesting things. They’re putting a lot of rigor around the way that they optimize their processes before they go ahead and, um, you know, truly implement, um, and, and digitize and, and deploy AI agents in them

[00:19:12] Scott W Luton: Well said. And we’re go- we’re gonna circle back on Schneider Electric w- uh, for good reason here

[00:19:18] Scott W Luton: later in today’s episode. So

[00:19:19] Laura Rainier: Damn

[00:19:20] Scott W Luton: no doubt, I, I can see it. There’s so many examples of these macro trends at work, so we would be here til the cows come home. But I wanna get, uh, Mike weigh in. How, how have you seen… You know, we’ve heard from Laura kinda how these macro trends are playing out across industry in the top 25. What, what are you seeing, Mike?

[00:19:38] Mike Griswold: Yeah, I, I’m seeing o-organizations oftentimes look to the top 25 and the macro trends as really a couple things. One, for some of the more mature companies, it’s validation. So are, are we working on the right things? You know, like the Amazon example and the Unilever example and Schneider Electric. I think the other thing people, uh, Laura alluded to it a little bit earlier, people are looking for inspiration.

[00:20:04] Mike Griswold: What are the things that I should be working on? And I think what we try to do in the report i- and the subsequent discussions we have around that is what are, what are the things that anybody can do to start down the journey that some of these top 25 companies have, have embarked upon? When I was an analyst, I often– and was covering the top 25, I would often get companies that would, that would say, “Hey, I love your macro trends, but, but we’re not…”

[00:20:36] Mike Griswold: Fill in the blank, right? We’re not P&G, we’re not Unilever, we’re not Amazon, so those things, you know, don’t really apply to us. And my response back to them was, “Well, they all started somewhere, right?” You know, Unilever didn’t wake up some morning and all of a sudden, you know, ha-have this ecosystem, right? So there are things that even early stage maturity companies can, can start on the road to these macro trends.

[00:21:03] Mike Griswold: And, you know, we encourage people to not kinda d- to get discouraged because, you know, maybe you don’t have the data infrastructure, maybe you don’t have the size and scale of, of Walmart as an example. But there are things everybody can do to get started, and that’s really what we hope the takeaway is from the report, is as people read each of the little blurbs we have on all the, on all the companies, that they can find a company that looks like them, right?

[00:21:33] Mike Griswold: We’re gonna talk a little bit about some of the, the new entrants and the, and the folks that have reentered the, the list, and hopefully companies can take some inspiration from those companies that maybe are just now cracking the list or companies that were maybe outside the list but have now made their way back doing some of the things that we talk about in these macro trends.

[00:21:54] Scott W Luton: Yep. You know, a couple things you sh-shared there, Mike, uh, and Laura, uh, welcome your, your thoughts. But, you know, one of the things you mentioned, uh, you– Actually, Laura, you mentioned process optimization before we, you know, apply the latest and greatest technology. And, you know, that, it reminds me of the phrase, “What’s old is new again,” right?

[00:22:13] Scott W Luton: ‘Cause process optimization’s been around for as long as industry, um, has been. But it’s like when we have technological revolutions, I think we realize again, ’cause we get so giddy about, “Okay, where can I apply AI? Where can I apply this or that, the other?” sometimes we, I know I’ve done it, leaders can, uh, can procure it, apply it, and all we do, unfortunately, is, um, get, make bad process much more efficient.

[00:22:40] Scott W Luton: That’s,

[00:22:41] Laura Rainier: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:42] Scott W Luton: that’s no bueno for anybody. Uh, and then the second thing you mentioned, uh, Mike, um, I think you touched on a bit is, is kind of re-engineering work, right? Re-engineering jobs. And Laura, I know this is, uh, near and dear to you given all your work in the talent space. Um, I was meeting with an executive yesterday on a show, and he used this phrase he would encourage leaders to think of when we think of re-engineering work in this era of technology, apply dignity and purpose to

[00:23:12] Laura Rainier: 嗯

[00:23:13] Scott W Luton: to, to, to the workforce as we do that. And I, I just love that, Laura. I, I love that. I’ll get you to respond to Mike’s, uh, comments and anything I, I mentioned, and then we’re gonna move on and, and, uh, uh, talk more about the Masters

[00:23:27] Laura Rainier: Great. Yes. I think, um, that is so critical, and it doesn’t change, right? Given that we are adding these new tools and capabilities. I think your point on process optimization, um, is an interesting one, and I think it’s not even just that we’re optimizing, that we’re not layering onto bad process, but actually it’s also that we’re not, um, we’re, we’re aware of the technology as we are redeploying or reevaluating our processes, right?

[00:24:00] Laura Rainier: I think about it as I often think about, like, the invention of the automobile, right? We used to maybe ride around on dirt roads in horse and carriages, right? And now, um, you could add a car on a dirt road, and that makes maybe that bad process faster, right? But I think the, the, the invention of the interstate, right?

[00:24:18] Laura Rainier: The ability to actually think about now that we’ve got this new tool, how do we use it most effectively in this new context? And so reimagining what roles really should look like in that future is I think where we see the leaders going

[00:24:30] Scott W Luton: Laura, well said. I like the analogy too, uh, ’cause you wanna go faster, but you, you don’t wanna, you know, break your collarbone or your, um, your in-internals, uh, because of the bumpy ride, right?

[00:24:42] Laura Rainier: Right

[00:24:43] Scott W Luton: Um, lot of good stuff there, Laura. Um, okay, so let’s talk about the masters, right? And I think let’s do this two ways.

[00:24:50] Scott W Luton: Uh, Laura, I’d love for you just to define that masters category so

[00:24:53] Scott W Luton: everyone’s with us and understands what, you know, these, uh, super performers. And then secondly, the key insights from this group. So Laura, tell us more on, on both, on both points.

[00:25:04] Laura Rainier: Great. Yes. So our Supply Chain Masters, it is a category that recognizes long-term leadership in supply chain. And so, um, we have four masters, and they have gotten there by achieving a, a really, um, difficult kind of hurdle, right? So what, what they need to do to achieve master status is actually to achieve, um, be among the top five scores in, as a result of our top 25 methodology, um, for seven of the last 10 years.

[00:25:35] Laura Rainier: So kind of consistent long-term leadership. Um, and, and it needs to be the top five scores among all companies, including other masters, right? And so yes, our four masters this year include Amazon, Apple, P&G, and Unilever. And, um, all masters who have actually been masters for quite a while, right? And have sustained that long-term leadership category.

[00:25:59] Laura Rainier: And, um, so always good to see, I think, the work that they’re doing. I think it’s always inspiring. Certainly, um, you know, I mentioned some of the work that, that Unilever’s doing around Project Sky, but I think we can also talk about their autonomous workforce efforts, right? Their training around systems optimization and systems thinking, um, right?

[00:26:17] Laura Rainier: Training beyond the sort of digital literacy and really investing in people, um, and preparing for those new roles. Uh, Amazon doing fascinating things in terms of, um, in, in terms of their, their network, as I mentioned, but also in terms of augmenting employees, right? Providing their delivery drivers with, um, special tech sort of enabled glasses that can speed deliveries and, and make sure that they’ve got record of, um, deliveries, et cetera, right?

[00:26:46] Laura Rainier: So some really cool ways that they’re augmenting with sort of physical technology. Um, and then I’d, I’d point to, um, you know, as well P&G and, and some of the work they’re doing in sort of digitizing supply chain and, and embedding AI across the, um, supply chain organization. Some really leading things kind of happening there as well.

[00:27:04] Scott W Luton: Hmm.

[00:27:05] Laura Rainier: Thoughts there

[00:27:05] Scott W Luton: my favorite out of what Laura just shared,

[00:27:07] Scott W Luton: certainly my favorite one is her comments around, um, several of, of the organizations investing in augmenting the workforce and the people. You know, I, I think equipping this, the beautiful human element for this exciting current and new chapter the industry is, is more and more getting into, I think that’s a, that’s a, that’s an owner’s own leadership to do that.

[00:27:30] Scott W Luton: And, uh, I really appreciate you calling that out, Laura, uh, for sure. But Mike, what’d you hear there from Laura, and what are your owner observations in terms of what’s going on with, um, Amazon, Apple, P&G, and Unilever? 

[00:27:45] Laura Rainier: Yeah, those are, Scott, great, great points, great observations by Laura. I think the one thing I would add when I think about this year’s masters and their consistency, and I think about kind of historically what we’ve seen from the masters is their ability kind of at the same time be able to invest the supply chain from the standpoint of keeping the lights on, but also invest in terms of how are we going to enable our supply chain to be that driver of growth, that competitive differentiator.

[00:28:20] Mike Griswold: know, when you look at the masters, you know, they all have a very broad definition of where their supply chain starts and stops, and I do think that’s one of those things, that span of control, you know, what’s the remit of the supply chain? That is one of those things that, you know, the masters have in common as well as some of our more leading companies, you know, in the list, is how they define their supply chain and the span of control that they give their supply chain

[00:28:47] Scott W Luton: Hmm. You know, um, I, I know we, we’ve mentioned Amazon a couple times. It’s hard not to when you think of supply chain innovation. But, you know, at Symposium this year down in Orlando, I sat down with, uh, Peter Larsson, who of course is a central figure in Amazon Supply Chain Services, which is a fascinating development this year. So we’ll see where that, uh, where that goes from here. But hey, another reason to go to Symposium, Mike. We talk about

[00:29:12] Laura Rainier: F**k.

[00:29:13] Scott W Luton: the industry networking all the time, but maybe we’ll talk about events before we get out of here. Um, all right. So Laura, really enjoy your perspective. I, I, I wanna, wanna explore a different wrinkle though, because we’ve had, um, some new entrants or maybe some returning entrants into this year’s top 25 for 2026.

[00:29:33] Scott W Luton: Uh, Laura, what, what hits your radar there?

[00:29:36] Laura Rainier: Yes, we have, um, some new entrants, some returns. Um, Taiwan Semiconductor was, um, landed on the ranking for the first time. And, um, and so really exciting to see, you know, some new faces. Taiwan Semiconductor, I think the scale at which they are operating their supply chain, um, and, you know, certainly dealing with, um, constrained supply and managing constrained supply, I think is a really interesting organization to dig into.

[00:30:04] Laura Rainier: Um, we saw Toyota. Toyota was very impressive coming in at number 12 from outside of the ranking last year, right? So really exciting. They had been on the ranking some years ago, um, but good to see them back and really, really strong recognition from peers, um, for Toyota. Um, Dell Technologies also back at number 17.

[00:30:23] Laura Rainier: Um, so pretty impressive, you know, coming right in at number 17. And, um, yeah, and we saw Inditex come back as well, um, at number 25. And Johnson Controls, um, has been out for many years as well and, and came back in at number 20. So kind of good to see a little bit of a, a shakeup in the top 25. We like to, to keep it interesting.

[00:30:43] Scott W Luton: You do. Uh, and Mike, I tell you, uh, the TSMC thing is fascinating. Their business, that sector, the role they’re playing globally, uh, is such a fascinating part of, of modern, uh, global supply chain. But on a lighter note, Laura’s getting us ready for college football because I, I tell you, if, if you just, if you just squint a little bit, you could almost, the top 25, uh, observations, it’s almost like you expect to hear Texas and Alabama maybe Clemson sometime return to top 25 conversations.

[00:31:15] Scott W Luton: But anyway, in, in terms of the new blood, uh, and the returning blood coming into the, the Gartner Supply Chain Top 25, Mike, your observations

[00:31:23] Mike Griswold: Yeah, I mean, every year, you know, as we go through the, you know, we think about the methodology, and I know we’ll, we’ll come back to that in j- in just a minute or two. You know, we’re, we’re always, you know, looking to see does the methodology re- reflect kind of the new thinking around, you know, what does a good supply chain look like?

[00:31:40] Mike Griswold: And I think when we, we expect anywhere from three to five, you know, ins and three to five outs, to Laura’s point, so that, you know, there is, um, you know, some, you know, we like some volatility, we don’t like chaos, right? So we don’t want that. I think what you see though typically either a new entrant or some of the returners like Inditex and Dell, is you, you see organizations that aren’t necessarily trying to chase to get back into the top 25.

[00:32:15] Mike Griswold: What they’re doing is recognizing how does their supply chain need to evolve? How does the supply chain need to reflect customer needs as well as the, the capability needs of a supply chain in 2026? when, when organizations do that, right, when they figure out what do they need to have a high performing supply chain, 25 kind of results tend to become a byproduct or they tend to be an outcome.

[00:32:42] Mike Griswold: I think that’s reflected, you can go back in time and look at the history of the top 25 and people that left, probably didn’t react as quickly as they should have to certain macro environments. Maybe they didn’t embrace the macro trends as quickly as they could have. the flip side is true too, right?

[00:33:01] Mike Griswold: Companies that, you know, work their way back in have made, have made a very conscious effort around what do they want the role of their supply chain to be? How are we gonna invest in our supply chain? How is our supply chain gonna lead us down some type of growth journey? So it always is interesting to see, you know, when we’re all waiting on pins and needles for that to come out to see, you know, to see that change, right?

[00:33:25] Mike Griswold: And see that evolution in companies that maybe have been out for a little while and come back. we saw a couple of years ago when in- when Nvidia basically came out of nowhere and landed in the top 25. Um, we saw that a couple years ago with Alibaba. of nowhere, they land in the top 25, and it’s not because they were chasing the metrics or chasing the methodology.

[00:33:48] Mike Griswold: They were chasing, we need a better supply chain. 嗯 do that, outcomes like landing in the top 25, landing in 26 to 50, right, leading your industry in our industry cuts, those are all byproducts that, that, that are beneficial to the organization

[00:34:05] Scott W Luton: Hmm. Well said. And I like where you started. low volatility is to be expected, and of course it c- it can lead to some good pain and good gains. We wanna avoid the chaos.

[00:34:17] Mike Griswold: Yes.

[00:34:17] Scott W Luton: the chaos. Um, okay, let’s get back to the good stuff, in particular, that’s the Schneider Electric story. You know, this company hit my radar at least a couple years back.

[00:34:26] Scott W Luton: You know, Mike, I wanna say a couple years back, you and I both were, uh, touting h- their ecosystem approa- uh, view to investing in their suppliers, uh, during, you know, some challenging times, right? Um, and you know, here recently, last year I had a, uh, the fortune of meeting their chief supply chain officer, Murad Tamud. Uh, had a wonderful, uh, conversation with him in person no less, in Vegas at a great event that they hosted. Uh, and of course, Schneider Electric, uh, took the number one spot on the top 25 for no less than the fourth consecutive year. So Laura, man, I’ll have what they’re having. Uh, what is driving that performance and recognition?

[00:35:09] Laura Rainier: Yes. Um, you know, Schneider Electric, I will say, you know, really great performance across the board, across the methodology. Uh, but I would point out particular leadership, um, in community opinion, right? And so highly regarded by Gartner experts, highly regarded by peers, um, because of the leadership that they show, right?

[00:35:30] Laura Rainier: And I think that is grounded in their vision, right? And their vision is very integrated. Um, they present a vision that’s about growing the pie and creating ecosystem value, which you sort of alluded to, right? Um, I mentioned their disciplined execution earlier around, um, kind of getting their processes in order before they go ahead and, and deploy AI solutions.

[00:35:52] Laura Rainier: I think they’re also sort of disciplined and visionary in their integration of sustainability goals into their supply chain, right? Um, they focus on, you know, not trade-offs, but it’s how do we actually leverage this to capture value, to mitigate risk. Um, I think a great example is some of the work they’re doing in circular.

[00:36:11] Laura Rainier: Um, scaling circular models that actually recover scrap metals and then inject them back into their supply chain, and they’re doing this at scale in, in certain parts of the world. And in France in particular, um, is a real kind of, um, you know, I think a leading practice of theirs, where they’re really utilizing these valuable materials more efficiently and ultimately creating value out of that work, right?

[00:36:33] Laura Rainier: Thinking about climate risk and how it impacts their business long term, and then preparing for it and leading in a way that enables it to navigate that. Um, I, I could go on, but I think some, some good, um, real alignment there between, um, their various priorities.

[00:36:47] Scott W Luton: Laura, well said. And Mike, I want to say I, I read in “The New York Times” here in the last week or two, uh, Laura mentioned, uh, of course, France, where Schneider Electric is, is based and headquartered. Uh, and The Times h- uh, highlighted a plant that embraced AI but led with how can it support and invest and augment the workforce, and it really lauded, uh, this counter-narrative.

[00:37:10] Scott W Luton: I mean, y- you know, we talk about it all, all the time. You know, certain jobs in any industrial revolution are going to be lost. That’s just historical fact. But when it comes to leadership of how they can– we can take and really em- use it to empower the workforce, um, those are great stories.

[00:37:30] Scott W Luton: But Mike, your thought on the Schneider Electric, the great story that is Schneider Electric

[00:37:34] Mike Griswold: Yeah, this is, this is one of those where it’s been very– I’ve been very fortunate to be, you know, part of the top twenty-five in Laura’s role for a number of years a few years ago. But you c- those of us at, at Gartner, both, uh, involved with the methodology and, and the process and our industry analysts that talk to Schneider, this was one of those things where you could kind of see coming, right?

[00:37:58] Mike Griswold: You could see every year going from, you know, high teens to low teens to single digits to top five. And it’s interesting because Schneider, I think, is a great example of someone that, you know, was able to build on the successes of their supply chain strategies from the previous year. they were not someone that all of a sudden, you know, you woke up some morning and they’re in the top twenty-five, right?

[00:38:27] Mike Griswold: They, they got in it and then continuously improved their supply chain to land, you know, where, where they are. If you look at the, the numbers across all of the, the metrics that are in the methodology, they do very well. I think what I would highlight reinforce what Laura said is the community and peer components, right?

[00:38:49] Mike Griswold: That’s fifty percent of the methodology. And we, we have lots of organizations that financially do well, but for whatever reason have made decisions to not expose what they do to the broader community, right? And part of the overarching goal of the top twenty-five is to raise the level of performance of everyone in the supply chain, raise the level of performance of the profession.

[00:39:15] Mike Griswold: And Schneider does a great job. I mean, yes, they’re not giving out s- the secret sauce, but they’re giving out stuff that others can use and others find valuable, both in the peer network as well as what they share with us as analysts. So it is about financial performance, but it’s also about giving back to the community, I think Schneider is a great example of that

[00:39:39] Scott W Luton: Yes, I completely echo. I think, uh, you know, um, many, many of our co-hosts, many, many of our audience members, many folks that I’ve known in the industry for a long time, uh, a common thread in some of their feedback when we’ve had, um, Schneider Ele- you know, been involved in their programs or had them speak here, they’re a very highly respected organization, and that takes a long time to establish that track record, which you’re kind of alluding to, Mike. Um, so ton of good news. We don’t want this to be the Schneider Electric hour, but I think the three of us have kindred sp- spirits for that organization. Um, before I talk, you know, we, the methodology’s come up a couple times, and, uh, I wanna ask y’all a question about that, but is there anything else, Laura?

[00:40:20] Scott W Luton: Y- know, we were, we were talking kind of pre-show. I’m not envious of your role because you have all of this research, insights, and data, and key takeaways from all these companies, and there’d be so much to share. How in the world do you pick exactly what to share in these interviews? I don’t know how you do it, Laura. But is there anything that in particular that we left out that you really wanna share with our audience from this year’s Top 25? Not a fair question, but I’m gonna just

[00:40:47] Scott W Luton: pose that to you. 

[00:40:49] Laura Rainier: To your point, there’s so much that we can share. I think there’s a lot of really exciting practices. Um, I might add, you know, Walmart up 10 spaces to number three, so really exciting to see some of the sort of retail representation on, um, you know, Walmart, but also even JD.com advancing.

[00:41:06] Laura Rainier: Um, I’m back to my football analysis, but I think there’s, um, some really good, good news stories, um, you know, and movements in, in that space as well. Um, and, and just a whole lot to learn from the research that we’ve done. So I won’t, I won’t, uh, bore you with too many more of the details for now, but, um, but please, um, feel free to check it out because there’s, there’s a lot, there’s a lot in there

[00:41:27] Scott W Luton: I’m with you. And you know, w- w- speaking of good stories, what Walmart has been doing for several years now, uh, making leaps and bounds, uh, and gains, um, versus its retail competitors, uh, that’s a great story that continues to give and give and give. Micah, anything else before we talk about methodology?

[00:41:45] Scott W Luton: Anything else you want to call out as well?

[00:41:46] Mike Griswold: Yeah, I think, uh, just maybe go back to what I had said earlier around, you know, these organizations have, have found ways to, to, from a funding perspective, find that balance between keeping the lights on and driving innovation. these leading companies have, within their supply chain, their chief supply chain officers have, have taken the responsibility of finding ways to drive innovation through the supply chain, and then finding ways to let their peers know within the C-suite the value of the supply chain.

[00:42:21] Mike Griswold: think if you were to canvas the masters in the top 25 companies, it’s highly unlikely any of them would tell you, “We have a supply chain because we have to have one, and we have a supply chain because it’s a cost center.” tell you, “We have a supply chain because it’s integral to us driving growth and innovation.”

[00:42:39] Mike Griswold: And that’s really, I think, the overarching message that we want people to take away, not only from this year’s list, but all the lists going forward, is how can you use your supply chain as, as a growth driver? 

[00:42:51] Scott W Luton: Yes. Well said, Mike. Well said. All right. So Laura and Mike, uh, I don’t want to talk out of both sides of my mouth, um, here at all by any means. Mike, you know I’ve enjoyed the Top 25 program for as long as you and I have been co-hosting episodes, and l- largely to your, the points you’ve made, right? The awareness it creates, the benchmarking opportunities, the discussions, you name it, right?

[00:43:15] Scott W Luton: So I am a, I am a fan. however, we all have, um… Look, there’s lots of takes in the world of global supply chain. Some critics out there, respected critics, point to the subjective element in part of the methodology, I th- I think we’ve already, uh, touched on a little bit here, uh, and kind of call that out. So Laura, I’d love to start with you and then get Mike’s take. 

[00:43:38] Laura Rainier: Mm. 

[00:43:39] Scott W Luton: you hear, ’cause I know y’all lean into all kinds of conversations, folks, you know, kindred spirits otherwise. Uh, when y’all have those kinds of conversations and you get that feedback, um, what’s your response? How do you, how do you speak to that?

[00:43:53] Laura Rainier: Well, I actually think, uh, I am struck by how I think the community opinion component of our methodology is what makes it… It’s our secret sauce, right? It is actually what really differentiates the ranking, right? Um, there, there is a lot in the quantitative part of the methodology that effectively measures outcomes of supply chain excellence.

[00:44:16] Laura Rainier: But so much, most of what we talked about today, right, and those backroad trends are not going to show up today in those financial outcomes, right? Where it shows up is in our community opinion component through recognition from peers and through recognition from experts. And so, um, we encourage those peers and experts to vote what they know, right?

[00:44:37] Laura Rainier: Um, if you don’t have visibility into the entire supply chain, that’s okay because someone else will have a different perspective on a different part of it. And when we put all of that together, we get a really good picture of what supply chain excellence looks like. Of course, we, um, to Mike’s earlier point, work with a lot of very smart people who have a lot of really great insight into supply chain excellence and who’s doing things well in, in their particular corner of the market.

[00:45:01] Laura Rainier: And so I, I guess I would, um, I, when I hear criticism around community opinion, I actually push back and say, “This ranking is so important and followed and valuable because of the community opinion element.”

[00:45:14] Scott W Luton: Laura, I like it. Uh,

[00:45:17] Laura Rainier: Hello

[00:45:17] Scott W Luton: your thoughts?

[00:45:18] Mike Griswold: Yeah, there’s no one lacks for an opinion on the Top 25 as, as soon as it comes out, right? And think i- it’s interesting because, you know, we’ve gone through methodology changes, we’re going through methodology changes for 2027. when we, when, when we talk to people, we pull focus groups together of people that are actively involved in the Top 25, we get, we get lots of feedback on the quantitative side.

[00:45:44] Mike Griswold: But what we almost hear universally, to Laura’s point, is don’t touch the analyst and the community perspective, because there’s value in how people view each other. Now, one of the things we did this year is, ’cause one of the criticisms has been that the, the peer vote in particular was a, um, I don’t wanna say a beauty contest, popularity contest, right?

[00:46:11] Mike Griswold: People were voting brands that they knew, and there were other brands that got no votes that were doing just as much stuff. So we provided in, in this year’s iteration, a little bit more education to the peer voters around the companies that they might be selecting, right? Things like, um, and Laura can help me with this, but, but things like where have they landed in the past, some things that they’ve been working on.

[00:46:33] Mike Griswold: So people were, were more informed. Now, Laura and I tell people all the time is, in that community side, a very fine line between giving people information that they could use helpful in casting a vote and being accused of leading the witness, right? So there’s a very fine line that I think we’re still navigating, right, to find the sweet spot of here’s, like, a really good body of knowledge for you to cast an intelligent vote, someone looking at that and saying, “Gartner’s trying to push you to a certain company.”

[00:47:05] Mike Griswold: So there is a lot of support for, for the community, uh, both on the peer side and the analyst side. We’re doing our best to continually give people what we think is, is information that can help them cast their vote without, again, without being accused of leading the witness

[00:47:25] Scott W Luton: Matlock has never factored into an analogy here at

[00:47:28] Mike Griswold: Ha.

[00:47:29] Scott W Luton: Now, but Mike, we did

[00:47:31] Mike Griswold: Yes

[00:47:31] Scott W Luton: Uh, g- the good old Andy Griffith Show back in the day, back in the ’80s. all right. So Laura, uh, before I go, I wanna make sure folks and I connect with you both. Mike also shared, I think, some very straightforward and genuine perspective there in light of the criticism. Uh, is there anything else you wanna add based on what he shared, Laura? And especially, you know, he referenced some 2027 changes. Anything else to add, Laura?

[00:47:55] Laura Rainier: Yes, uh, we will be making changes, right? We’re always looking to evolve the methodology, and there will be changes to, um, the ESG methodology next year. And so that will look quite different. Um, again, kind of more focus on performance outcomes than, um, perhaps, you know, voluntary reporting initiatives as it, as it does today.

[00:48:15] Laura Rainier: And so looking forward to sharing those updates. Um, you’ll, you’ll find them, um, on gartner.com in, say, August or so. So, um, definitely look out for that

[00:48:26] Scott W Luton: Outstanding. And folks, you can, you can download, uh, I did it earlier, uh, the, the into the free research that’s available associated with the top 25. You can find that at gartner.com. We’ll try to include the direct link, um, in the show notes. Uh, and Mike, that begs the question because there’s some, you know, I mentioned Symposium, Supply Chain Symposium takes place, um, in Orlando and also in, um, I want to say Madrid.

[00:48:53] Scott W Luton: It’s not Madrid, Mike. Um, Barcelona, thank you. Um, each year, uh, we had a great time. We had, we had about 20 great interviews this year, um, in May at Symposium. And of course, we’ve got a new Procurement Summit coming up soon. And then my other favorite, Mike, we’ve talked a lot about, is the Supply Chain Planning Summit. Uh, Laura, are you gonna be at the Planning Summit this year?

[00:49:18] Laura Rainier: You know, I will not be at the Planning Summit, but I will see you at Symposium, um, absolutely.

[00:49:22] Scott W Luton: Outstanding. Well, well, you know what? Planning Summit, I tell you, Laura, I went to the, went to it for the first time last year, had a blast. Uh, Mike, it may make me a big old supply chain nerd, but I love talking planning. I know you do too.

[00:49:36] Mike Griswold: For sure

[00:49:36] Scott W Luton: you wanna share about this year’s Planning Summit?

[00:49:39] Mike Griswold: Yeah, I, I think it’s, uh, a- again, if, if anyone has any connection at all to planning, whether you, you run planning teams, whether you’re a planner yourself, it is, it is the go-to place to be for, for planning insights, uh, both on the technology side as well as the people and process side

[00:49:58] Scott W Luton: It is. And folks, you can learn more about Symposium, Planning Summit, Procurement Summit, all of Gartner programming at gartner.com. And I bet, Lara, as we start to wrap up here today, um, how’s– what, what’s the easiest way to connect with you, whether it’s about a top 25 or s- other parts of your research, other parts of your perspective?

[00:50:18] Scott W Luton: I bet you do a bunch of keynotes and, and, uh, consultations and whatnot. Lara, how can folks track you down?

[00:50:24] Laura Rainier: Absolutely. Um, LinkedIn is the place, so please, uh, reach out, connect with me on LinkedIn

[00:50:30] Scott W Luton: Outstanding folks, outstanding. Laura, really a- a- appreciated and enjoyed having you back here on the show at Supply Chain Now. And Mike, I know, and I almost know what you’re gonna say ’cause, ’cause we’ve had we’ve had the same exchange for seven years now. Actually, you know what? Before I even go to Mike, Laura, is Mike Griswold working on his LinkedIn game?

[00:50:51] Scott W Luton: Can you officially say yes, Mike’s advancing?

[00:50:55] Laura Rainier: Um, not to my knowledge, but I’ll let Mike answer that for you

[00:50:59] Scott W Luton: All right, Mike, how can folks connect with

[00:51:01] Mike Griswold: So Laura is a fair, a very fair and balanced observation of my,

[00:51:05] Laura Rainier: F**k my LinkedIn prowess. Uh, e- frankly, email’s the best, mike.griswold@gartner.com. I am working to keep up with LinkedIn, um, but email is probably the easiest for people to get ahold of me

[00:51:19] Scott W Luton: I’m with you. I’m with you. You know, uh, and it gets harder and harder. Um, some of my dearest friends co- uh, coaxed me to join WhatsApp, uh, in the last year or

[00:51:29] Laura Rainier: No

[00:51:30] Scott W Luton: And after a couple months, to back away, turn it off, never open it again. I could not keep up, Laura and Mike. And LinkedIn’s getting tougher and tougher, so I feel your pain. Um, regardless, uh, Laura Rainier, senior director analyst at Gartner. Laura, keep up the great work. Great to have you back, and let’s not go two years without, uh, having a new conversation. How’s that sound?

[00:51:52] Laura Rainier: Sounds great.

[00:51:54] Scott W Luton: Mike so much

[00:51:55] Scott W Luton: always a pleasure to have you join us here. Really enjoyed, uh, you and Laura’s take on the top 25 and far beyond. Uh, let’s keep up the momentum as we head into the hotter and hotter months. But Mike Griswold, vice president analyst with Gartner, thanks for being here

[00:52:11] Mike Griswold: Thanks for having me, Scott. Laura, thanks. Great conversation

[00:52:14] Scott W Luton: Excellent conversation. Folks, hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. Hey, give us your feedback. You know, that’s one of my favorite parts that we’ve been baking more and more into our monthly show with Mike is, is sharing your comments, your perspectives, your take. So keep it coming. And hey, it’s easier for us to find that if you tag Supply Chain Now or tag Mike or tag myself, um, that’d be terrific.

[00:52:38] Scott W Luton: So we wanna feature that more and more. But hey, whatever you do, take one thing. This is your homework from Mike and Laurie here today. Share it with your team. Do something with it. Deeds not words, folks. That’s how we’re gonna keep driving good change here across our industry. And with that said, Scott Luton here challenging you to do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed, and we’ll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

[00:53:00] Scott W Luton: Thanks everybody.