Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Dr. Rod Thomas here with you on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s live stream. Rod, how you doing today?

Rod Thomas (00:24):

I’m ready to go, man. It’s a little hot, but excited to be on here with you. It

Scott Luton (00:28):

Is hot. The only thing hotter than the weather, at least here in the States, is going to be today’s conversation, folks. It’s the buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern Time, we discuss a variety of news developments from across global supply chain and business news that matters is what we like to call it. And all month long in August, the buzz is powered by our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics, your global partner for integrated warehouse automation. To learn more, visit toyota-automated-logistics.com. Unique website there. Go check it out, folks. Okay, so Ry, let’s see here. We’re going to talk about all kinds of things today, including proven tips for leading change, that crazy copper market, one of the million ramifications associated with the data center Bonanza. It’s crazy out there. And insights on how organizations and individuals can optimize their professional development journeys. Stay tuned with cover all that.

(01:22):

Plus, beyond the Rod Thomas, we have got the Hans Kramer within Change is with us here today. I know you’re all going to enjoy his perspective on a variety of topics. So Rod, we got a jam packed edition of The Buzz here today. Are you ready to go, my friend?

Rod Thomas (01:37):

I am ready to go. And you forgot, I want to talk about the drone delivery stuff too.

Scott Luton (01:42):

Yes.

Rod Thomas (01:42):

Retailers, their models changing and all that. So I’m excited about that as well.

Scott Luton (01:46):

I am too. I got a sneak peek of some of your thoughts last week on that, and I’m looking forward to you sharing here today, folks. So buckle up for a big edition of the buzz powered by Toyota Automated Logistics right here today on Supply Chain Now. All right, so Rod, before Hans joins us, we’re going to tackle three things, right? Three things. First up, we dropped our most recent edition of With That Said Over the Weekend, and we led off with a great piece by my friend, Marty Parker. Marty Parker has been a very experienced manufacturing supply chain executive for a number of years, now doing big things over at UGA. And his piece focused on been there, done that advice for leading organizational change. Now his article, Rod, he kind of concluded with three, what I though were very actionable, straightforward tips. Number one, when it comes to leading successful change, number one, find advocates early.

(02:37):

Those folks that drink in the Kool-Aid, they see the why, they see the what’s in it for me, and they’re ready to become a big advocate of change. Number two, you got to listen to the resistors. Those aren’t folks oftentimes that just want to create chaos. They’ve got very bonafide feedback around the initiative. Hey, lean in. You can have some powerful eureka moments. And then third, Rod, we got to keep selling the why. We got to tell them and then tell them and oh, tell them again, right? Because we have human seven-second goldfish memories. So folks, go check out with that said, let us know what you think. But Rod, did you get a chance? I know you had a busy weekend. Did you get a chance to give with that said a little read?

Rod Thomas (03:20):

I did. I agree with Marty, especially on the first two points, the change management where I’m a big believer it’s got to happen from the bottoms up. Got to have buy-in of the people that are going to implement it. The one thing I would add there is there will be people that are going to say yes just to please upper management, and there’s going to be true believers. They’re both important, but if you get the true believers behind that, they’ll go out and sell it for you. They’ll get the why behind it for senior leadership. So I would differentiate a little bit there between the yes people and the true believers point on the resistance. I don’t think in most organizations anybody is ever really resistant to the actual goals senior leadership is trying to get to. Resistance typically comes from how you’re going about implementing it or what you’re doing.

(04:06):

And a lot of times I think there’s a tremendous insight there of they’re the ones that are going to have to implement the plan for you anyways. Go talk to them. A military analogy, we got to go take that hill. Okay. That’s

Scott Luton (04:15):

Right.

Rod Thomas (04:16):

That’s your job as a senior leader, but let me, if I’m the boots on the ground, figure out how to go do that. And I think there’s a key learning there. The one thing that I would add, a fourth point is those types of changes are time and resource intensive. You got to do your day job and the new thing and kind of balance the two before you shift over.

Scott Luton (04:33):

Rod, I like it. And on that last one, a little addendum because you made a great point. You got to keep doing the job while you’re improving the job. And that’s way too simply put, but I think folks know what I’m talking about. So as change agents, we got to find a way to free up time for our people so they can fit that improvement time into their schedules because they can’t be working 80 hours a week. So lots of stuff. Change management is a big, it deserves its own hour, but Rod, I really enjoyed your perspective. And folks, go check out the article, the blog article that really is prompting this conversation. And you’ll find that in With That Said, which we published just over the weekend. We’ve got two more things before we get Hans in here. I want to talk about another item that we published a few days ago.

(05:15):

This is our latest in our executive exchange series where I’m interviewing big leaders, doing big things in industry. We started with Sylvia Wilkes, chief supply chain officer at Lim Weston a couple of months back. She gave a great perspective. And then last week we published our newest one, which features Murad Tahmoud, chief supply chain officer with Schneider Electric, who Rod, he started his career with a company over 30 years ago as an intern on the factory floor. Now he sits chief supply chain officer, which is just incredible. What was one of your favorite takeaways from this read here?

Rod Thomas (05:47):

I’m a supply chain guy. I love where he is talking about how supply chain is more strategic than ever. We’re no longer a tactical cost-cutting function. It’s all about strategy. Strategic management scholars look at how does my company outperform yours? And I don’t think that’s valid anymore. It’s how does my company and 10,000 of its best friends outperform your company and thousands of your suppliers and your best friends? The unit of analysis has completely changed. So it is supply chain against supply chain, not company against company. And he drives that home of the strategic value of supply chains.

Scott Luton (06:17):

Well said, Rodney. That was one of my favorite parts too, because there’s a point in this blog article where he talks about the evolution of the value of supply chain management and certainly its strategy. And he said that 30 years ago, supply chain thinking meant just in time and finding cost savings and blocking and tackling. And he says now, “Supply chain sits at the center of business strategy.” And he ain’t wrong. He ain’t wrong. So all right, good stuff. Folks, go check it out. And I bet Tricia is dropping the links to all of the resources we’ve hit so far. We got one more to hit before we bring in Hans. Let me say hello to a few folks. Alan Jacques, great to see you last week. Really enjoyed dinner with you and Amanda and Corinne. Great to have you here today. TSquared who holds down the fort for us on YouTube says bring on the Monday nourishment with a Rachel, a chips, and a tall triple mix.

(07:09):

I’m from Baltimore, so why not? All right, you’re going to have to explain what those things are. TSquared. Great to see you. Let’s see Tricia’s dropping links as I mentioned. First one to with that said, and then she’s also, I bet, dropping the link to the blog article we just were talking about. Hey, Richard Hastings is back with us from the beautiful Sonaran in Southern Arizona. Richard, I know I didn’t say that right. You’re going to have to help me. You’re going to have to help me. And finally, Gwen from Vietnam, great to see you, TN. Great to see you. Let us know what your take is on any of these topics we talk about. Okay, supply chain rod should be a global conversation, and I love to see where folks are from and where they’re doing big things across the globe in all of our live programming.

(07:46):

But I got one more thing. I talked with you about Rod. I think this was a few weeks ago you dropped this link, this message on LinkedIn, and you were sharing a framework of sorts, key attributes that in your words, up to maybe a couple years ago, you thought made for maybe a perfect supply chain manager. But now in the golden age of supply chain tech, you’re kind of giving that some extra thought. And there were some really neat comments in the link of this message. But Rod, tell us more. What’s changing here you think?

Rod Thomas (08:15):

You spend a lot of time as a professor. How do I prepare the next supply chain manager? How do I build it from the ground up with a greenfield approach? And those five areas, the functional knowledge, relationship management, the analytics, the process improvement and systems thinking, I think was the perfect combination of a little bit of an engineer and a little bit of a business major.

(08:32):

In an AI-enabled or in an AI-enhanced world, I wonder if that’s still the attribute set we need to be preparing for supply chain managers. I think those things, those capabilities all are going to still exist in supply chains, but who does it? Or more importantly, what does it shifts. From a skills perspective, I wonder if you still keep that core foundation there, but the skills that the supply chain manager of tomorrow needs probably becomes a little bit more about strategic inquiry. And when I say that, asking the right questions, not just prompt engineering for AI, but are you asking the right questions of it? Not just the right way. A little bit more about discernment. Can you filter through the noise? It’s going to enable you to ask all kinds of questions, do all kinds of analysis, but can you tell when it’s hallucinating versus when it’s really adding value?

(09:22):

And the last piece I would say is more about judgment. Once you’ve asked the right questions, once you’ve filtered through the right data, can you act on it? Can you go make it happen? That skillset I think makes the basic supply chain manager look a lot more like a C-suite executive of today because it’s shifting because everybody’s going to be a technical expert and everybody’s going to have access to things via AI tools.

Scott Luton (09:44):

Rod, I like it. It’s a conversation we’ve got to be having. And folks, if you’re listening to this conversation and you’re not viewing it, let me just kind of close the loop here because Rod put a great graph out on his LinkedIn message at the core was functional knowledge in that plan source, make, deliver model that we all know. And then around that, he wrapped around these attributes from data analytics, process improvement, systems thinking, and relationship management. We’d love to know your thoughts. And Rod, I’m probably mixing things like oil and vinegar, but two thoughts. When I read that and I read some of the comments up under, there’s two thoughts that came to my mind. Number one, adaptability. We all know it. It goes with the territory. But gosh, I don’t know about you. I’m handling a lot more change these days than I was 10 years ago.

(10:26):

And that ability to unlearn what we think we know, that might sound cliche, but I’m telling you, it’s human in us to cling to what we think we know, and those things change. And then secondly, communication and also influence, but really sticking with communication, we are moving so fast. And yet communication is inherent to what we do, not just in supply chain, but little business, but because we’re moving even faster at ludicrous speed at times, that puts even more emphasis and importance on being able to effectively communicate. Rod, would you agree, disagree with those two points?

Rod Thomas (10:58):

I completely agree. And I think it’s all part of a continuous improvement mindset. Not just continuously improving processes at work. It’s continuously improving ourselves.

Scott Luton (11:07):

That’s right. Got too. And that’s a great segue because we’re going to be talking a lot about that. So let’s introduce our guest, Rod. Love having you here. And now we get Hans Kramer too. Man, so Hans has been fascinated by supply chains from almost the very day he was born. That passion has led to his work for years, helping corporate teams improve their overall performance. Hans and his organization has trained, get this, hundreds of teams from diverse industries and backgrounds, both online and offline, using business simulations developed by his organization called InChange. Get these. Connection, the cool connection, the blue connection, and the triple connection. These simulations challenge and inspire learners to bust silos, plot strategy, develop business acumen, and most importantly, deliver results. So please join me in welcoming Hans Kramer, partner and co-founder of InChange. Hey, Hans, how you doing, my friend?

Hans Kremer (12:00):

I’m doing good. Thank you very much.

Scott Luton (12:02):

Good to see you as well. You were overdue and having your own. I’ve enjoyed meeting you at various times over my journey. And to have you and Rod here, and given what we’re going to be talking about, I think we’re in for a treat. But Rod and Hans, this is where I want to start. So a good old fun and warmup question. And folks, I know we got a bunch of music lovers out here. Get this. Today, on this day back in 1943, Ronnie Spector was born in New York City. Now in my mind, her collaboration with Eddie Money on Take Me Home Tonight is Musical Perfection. A lot of folks may not know that’s her voice in the background. But also Michael Bivins was born on this day in 1968. Bill Biv Devoe, now you know for any Gen Xers out there. So Hans and Rod, I got a question for y’all.

(12:48):

And by the way, folks, Tricia, let’s drop one of Hans’ wonderful music posts from LinkedIn. We’re going to drop that in the chat. So folks, you can check that out. But Hans, if you had one concert from a musician, past, present, future, you name it, if you had one opportunity, who would you go see in concert?

Hans Kremer (13:05):

I would go see Prince in 1988 in Dortmund, Germany as part of his love sexy tour. I’ve seen many of his concerts. I couldn’t visit this one, but I’ve seen it a ton of times. Electric. Fantastic.

Scott Luton (13:17):

Hans, that’s a good one. That’s a really good one. Rod, he even had to wear the location and the date, so that’s going to be a tall bar to go flying over. Rod, what would be your one concert?

Rod Thomas (13:27):

I’m going to cheat a little bit. I saw Billy Joel and Elton John together, and it was phenomenal. And I went into it thinking Billy would be the better performer. Elton would be the better voice. And I came out of it thinking just the opposite.

Scott Luton (13:39):

Really? Oh my gosh. Okay. We’re going to have to get some pictures and some sound from really both of those great events. So Hans and Rod, thank you all for finding along. And folks, who would y’all go see in concert? Give us your answer to the fun on question. We would love to get your takeaway. All right, so before we dive into the news, Hans and Rod, I want to. Trisha’s shared Hans LinkedIn posts. So very regularly, folks, Hans, I think writes a great story and some background on a variety of artists, oftentimes with leadership lessons. So go check out that one, and there’s many others. And then also T-Squared, Hans and Rod. I asked about, he mentioned a Rachel. That is a sandwich. I had no idea. So he’s telling us what it is. Corned beef, Twist Cheese, Thousand Island or Russian dressing, coleslaw on rye, and the triple mix, sweet tea, lemonade, and fruit punch.

(14:29):

Okay, man, now I am starving.

Hans Kremer (14:31):

Sounds hunting.

Scott Luton (14:32):

That does. All right, we got work to do though. And then we will dine. We got three stores we’re going to walk into. And Hans and Rod, I want to start with this one about copper. It’s interesting to see what’s going on in the copper industry. So to level set, some out there may not know just how critical copper is to so many parts of our lives. For example, power grids, buildings and infrastructure, electric motors, but also conventional vehicles, renewable energy, data centers and AI, electronics, telecommunications, all that. Just name a few. It’s kind of an important input. But as CNBC reports, the price of copper has recently ballooned to its highest level ever, driven by constrained supply, heavy grid investment, uncertainty around US tariffs, and rising demand for electrification. Big time rising demand there. And also, Hans and Rod, before I get y’all comment, there’s a similar story as reported by tech times.

(15:25):

The world’s second largest copper supplier is the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And the DRC has banned the export of copper concentrate mainly because the country doesn’t want to be mining its natural resources and shipping them to all the other countries for processing. The DRC, rightfully so, wants to grow its share of the valuable processing and smelting that largely has taken place in other countries. Here’s a factoid for y’all. According to the International Energy Agency, had to slow down when I said that. “Since 2005, China has accounted for over 90% of growth in global copper smelting, increasing its share of global capacity from around 15% to 50%, 5-0 in 2025.” So Hans, there’s a lot going on here, but how do you react to what’s going on in the copper industry?

Hans Kremer (16:18):

I’m not that big a methology, but I do know that since copper has been stolen in the Netherlands, sometimes strains don’t even run. So it’s a very important raw material. But I’ve left what you just said. We have the DRC situation, expert balance. We have more smelting capacity in China. I also understand because of bad weather in supplying countries like Chile and Indonesia, they have supply issues. We have data centered growth. We have hatching going on due to terrorists. So we have this perfect storm, climate, tariffs, grid adjustments, and of course AI, data center growth, and all these things together, they bite. So you could call this misalignment on a global scale. It’s a

Scott Luton (16:58):

Perfect storm that you just described in addition to some of the elements that we shared earlier, no pun intended. Rod, comment on what we’re seeing in the copper industry.

Rod Thomas (17:06):

I’m going to make it even broader. I don’t think it’s just copper. We’re seeing it with all kinds of natural resources. Anything with electrification is running through this right now. If it’s something where there’s finite resources where we can only extract from certain regions. And the other thing that I think is coming about is you’re seeing countries weaponize supply chains more and more. If we control all the food supply or we control all the fuel supply, we have a strategic advantage and you’re seeing some of the big players try to do that. It’s a challenging issue. There are certainly economics at play, but I also think there are geopolitical factors at play here as well where people are trying to manipulate that.

Scott Luton (17:43):

Both of y’all raised some great points. And I would just add, we’ve had a long-running series called Supply Chain Leadership Across Africa, and it’s been a wonderful learning vehicle for me personally. And one of my favorite themes that continues to be reinforced with many of those conversations is rather than the beautiful continent of Africa and all the wonderful communities and countries involved, sending all of their precious resources to other countries for wealth and industry and all this other stuff, there’s a movement afoot to grow manufacturing across the continent. And I think this fits into that general theme. And I hope it happens because there’s so much opportunity. All right, so Hans and Rod, good stuff. We’re just getting started. By the way, T-Squared going back on music says Erika Badu, Guru, Chaka Khan, and Prince. Man, he’s throwing a gonla down there. That’s good stuff, T-Squared.

(18:32):

And I think Richard also enjoyed the purple one. So Purple Rain and Prince is certainly what comes to my mind as Richard shares that. That’s right, Richard, I was just out in Arizona. It is the copper state. And there were some interesting history factoids related to the Grand Canyon and development around it related to the copper industry. And when it went bust, interestingly enough, like a hundred years ago. So there’s a whole different story we have to save till next time. All right, so Rod and Hans, let’s talk about the data center bonanza thing is how we teed this up. I love the word bonanza.

(19:05):

So our friends at Manufacturing Dive are reporting on just one of the millions of ramifications related to the explosion of data center build-outs. Texas-based Caterpillar set a record in second quarter 2026 for sales with $20.5 billion in deals. That’s a 24% year-over-year increase. It’s seen sky-high demand for bulldozers, power generators, and really a lot of other industrial equipment. Many have concerns on when the AI demand may fall off and the ensuing repercussions at that point in time. But Cat’s CEO and chairman Joseph Creed says, “No one is slowing down in the moment.” So you got to make hay when the sun is shining. As I like to say, smoke them if you got them. One side note, Cat expects tariff costs to be around $2.2 billion this year. How about a headwind like that? Even though I think there was a big tariff refund baked into those second quarter numbers, but nevertheless, so Hans, when you think of this and other ramifications related to the data center, Bonanza, your thoughts?

Hans Kremer (20:10):

We talk a lot about OpenAI, Anthropic. Those are the, you could say the hero played in this whole story. And of course there’s NVIDIA with the chips and lots of other chips manufacturers. So also heroes perhaps in this story. But there are unsung heroes as well. And Caterpillar apparently is one. So this is often not so out in the open. I remember, if I’m not mistaken, I don’t follow Caterpillar daily, but they were in quite a bad situation some years ago, not even that long ago. We see a similar thing here in the Netherlands with Dutch company ASML who make the photolitography machines used by the semiconductor industry to manufacture microchips. They’re also one of these unsung heroes that have a grit going on.

Scott Luton (20:50):

Well, so your point there around the seasons of change, these large companies, that there’s going to be times when the harvests aren’t plentiful. And then there’s other times the seasons change and man, times are good. And clearly right now, second quarter, it has been a harvest, record-breaking harvest. Rod, how about what are you seeing there in this cat story or in this broader season of time we’re in related data centers?

Rod Thomas (21:20):

I don’t think the more you read and hear, this isn’t just a quarterly bump. A lot of people are talking about this is going to be extended five, 10-year period of expansion.

Hans Kremer (21:29):

Do you

Rod Thomas (21:29):

Think supply chain will come into play of, especially with AI centers, can we get enough copper? Okay, Caterpillar got their sales bump. Mike Rowe was talking the other day, we’re 400,000 electricians short, where we’re putting a lot of those AI centers out in Phoenix or in Texas. Water is limited and you got to cool those things off. So the growth is going to be a supply chain issue of what limited resources can we get enough of quickly enough to fuel that beast? Caterpillar right now is benefiting from it, but it’ll be interesting to see long-term what the bottleneck ends up being to curb some of that growth because I don’t think it’s going to come from demand of AI going down. It’s going to come from, can we build out data centers quick

Scott Luton (22:08):

Enough?That’s a big question. That is a big question for this moment in time. In the meantime, before I hit his third story, Tricia is dropping the link to each of these stories. Don’t take what me and Rod and Han say. Go do your own due diligence and give us your take on what you’re seeing here. Okay? All right, so up next, the drone delivery gain. Folks, this is one of my favorite parts of industry to keep my finger on the pulse of. As the Wall Street Journal reports, no longer will DoorDash rely only on bike and cars to deliver its delicious meals that I can’t have many of, according to my doctor. It’s turning to air power as DoorDash just received the FAA Part 135 Air Carrier Certificate, which is a big regulatory milestone for commercial drone delivery in the US. In fact, Axios says that DoorDash is only the eighth, that’s right, only the eighth US drone operator to obtain the Part 135 certification.

(23:04):

But it doesn’t stop there. The food delivery company is not only going to be operating its own drones, they’re going to be developing their own drones too. On a related note, I am intrigued by Walmart’s continuing to grow drone operations, including its drone airport hubs at their retail centers. Hans, Rod, you may have seen this for sure. We’ve got one at my Walmart in my neck of the woods, and I could sit there all day and just watch it coming and going, kind of like what you could do at ATL, frankly. I’ve got seven drones bringing me all my inputs for banana splits this afternoon. Seven of them. I think we’re delivering bananas and then chocolate syrup. We’ll see how those logistics lay out. But Hans, actually Rod, I’m going to start with you here because we were talking about this story last week. What do you react to the drone market in general?

Rod Thomas (23:51):

It is fascinating from an engineering standpoint. The fact that we can get pretty much anything, anywhere, almost instantaneously right at your doorstep is amazing. Business case for it is unique. You’re not making money on that, on that particular transaction. You might as well start taping five, $10 bills to it. But what retailers are offsetting it with is they’re getting a better understanding of your demand signal and they’re selling that to suppliers. Retailers are starting to make more margin off of advertising than they are off of physically selling products. The drone delivery just gives them a better read on you and what you take in and what you need and why. DoorDash in particular, because they work with multiple companies, they get a better read on what I’m going to have. Amazon’s the one that perfected this. Not only are they selling a general advertisement to a supplier, they’re selling my profile and then they show, we showed Rob this ad.

(24:47):

Was it successful or not? Did he buy or not? So they call that closed loop attribution. It’s the most targeted pinpointing advertisement. And then they could iterate and experiment on each of us by knowing what worked and what didn’t. That’s how they’re monetizing, that’s how they’re subsidizing this drone delivery thing. I think we need to treat it like air freight. Air freight works great for certain products if they’re really expensive and low density. The economics of delivering a gallon of ice cream to you, they’re just not there. It might be free to you. It’s not free.

Scott Luton (25:15):

Those are excellent points, Rod, and deserves a deeper conversation. I’m just thinking about the air traffic controllers as drone delivery continues to get more reaching that tipping point, so to speak, because we’ve got these hubs in my neck of the woods. Oh my gosh, wait to see what we’re going to see in the biggest cities around the world. Hans, react to this drone story from the Wall Street Journal.

Hans Kremer (25:37):

Yeah. Well, of course in Europe, we have a situation going on with drones that is war-related. So we see a lot of that and we see how quickly it develops for very tragic reasons, obviously. I also read a very fascinating more positive story the other day where drones are being used to deliver medicine, lifesaving medicine in countries that miss the infrastructure for it. So there’s a very positive note there. And I also took it, if I connect it to what DoorDash is doing, they’re using third parties for this now and they’re actually insourcing this service now. They may want to be looking for less dependence and create a capability of their own. You just mentioned Amazon. They have created logistics capability for themselves and now have become competitor of FedEx and UPS. So who knows what’s going to happen for DoorDash there. Apart from the cost, I think Rob made some very, very valid comments there.

Scott Luton (26:25):

Yeah, I’m with you. We could talk about this for the next hour or two. It is that fascinating from the engineering to the economics to just the safety component, the regulation component. So we’re going to keep our finger on the pulse of how this unfolds. And Hans, I appreciate on one hand it kind of feels, we talk about drone delivery from a food delivery standpoint. And then to your point, in other parts of the world, it is becoming a regular piece of technology utilized to carry out warfare. It really is intriguing on good and bad levels point in time from a technology standpoint. All right, so folks, on a much lighter note, check out, we dropped the article right there. Thank you, Tricia, for that. And we invite y’all to go give it a read and let us know what you think. Really quick, we’re about to pick Han’s brain on a variety of professional and organizational development topics, but I want to share this resource really quick from our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics, your global partner, integrated warehouse automation.

(27:22):

To get this, a company combines the talents of Bastion Solutions, find the Landai’s warehousing business and vias all under one brand as an integrated automation hub to deliver scalable systems, intelligent software, and lifecycle services. It all brings together the latest supply chain technologies into one connected solution. Toyota Automated Logistics delivers a seamless journey from system design to delivery, empowering customers with a lasting competitive advantage. Folks, go check out and learn a lot more at toyota-automated-logistics.com and Trisha dropping the link right there in the chat. All right, so Hans and Rod, we got a lot of stuff to get into here on the second half of the buzz. I want to start with this, Hans. And we were comparing notes on this last time you and I had a chance to really sit down and not just talk music and supply chain, but talk about some of the cool things y’all are doing.

(28:11):

So from an organizational standpoint, a lot of companies out there still approach training as the annual event where they’re going to check the box, everybody’s going to get that added to their employee files. But I want to ask you, that aside, what does great professional development look like in 2026, Hans?

Hans Kremer (28:30):

Yeah, so what has always puzzled me, companies talk about alignment and busting silos, and that’s something that we’re trying to help them with. We are of the thinking of if we want to bust silos, we should stop training as silos. That’s the idea. So when it comes to organizational development, yeah, you should ideally do this across function and not just individual skill stacking or whatever fancy word we can use for that. Because running an organization, and we already said in the beginning of the buzz, supply chain is all about strategy. It’s about a business being successful or surviving. Or running an organization, that’s a team sport when it comes to running supply chains, when it comes to sustainability improvements and transformations that we also look at and that we also have simulations for, and all kinds of other change initiatives. So as a team, you need a game plan.

(29:16):

And if you want to leave the pitch as a winning team, you need to be willing to play together. And that means that you also need to train from our point of view cross-functionally. So you literally experience what cross-functional trade-offs are there. You need to feel them, you need to feel them happen, and that’s what we’re trying to go after. And that’s also how you connect strategy and execution to financial outcomes. The learning becomes much deeper that way.

Scott Luton (29:39):

Rod Hans finished. There’s several points he made there, but the last one I want to pick up on, connecting the development and the training with the strategy with the outcomes. Because if there’s not outcomes, what are we doing? Rod, your thoughts on what Hans said or what you’re seeing really working from a training and professional development standpoint out in this I agree.

Rod Thomas (30:01):

I completely agree with what he said, especially walking a few miles in somebody else’s shoes. I think some of the leading companies right now, especially early career professionals, they’re setting up rotational development programs where you do a stint in different areas over six to 12 months and after a couple years you have a better understanding of that business. So you’re not as siloed because you have experienced the different parts of the business. I think the best ones are the ones that put you on the demand side and the supply side of the business. Peter Drucker called that the great divide, right? The right brain marketing and sales types, the left brain engineering types, they’re speaking different languages. And if you can learn to translate among them, I think that’s a tremendous skillset and will help any organization.

Scott Luton (30:45):

The great divide. I got to go check that out, Rod. Yeah,

Hans Kremer (30:47):

And Rob touches upon something very applicable. So like Rod says, we have these different, well, almost tribes, different languages. If you put on somebody else’s shoes, and then when you bring that back to professional development, if he can do this in a couple of days in a cross-functional setting, fit on somebody else’s shoes, you are in sales regularly, put on the supply chain shoes, right? Do it also vice versa. There’s a lot to be said for all these things. Put on finance’s shoes, operations issues, purchasing’s issues. Great learning.

Scott Luton (31:16):

I think there is not only a business lesson to be learned in what Hans and Rod have shared there, but just a humanity lesson. On some level, they’re talking about empathy. Seeing through the lens of your neighbor or your colleague or you name it. And I think there’s always power. In particular, it’s power here from a training and organizational performance standpoint. I want to share this. And Tricia and Amanda, y’all let me know who this is. They say indeed, every company works in silos. This is an issue that tackled this way, kind of what Hans is talking about, will give better results. Trainings should be multi-departments. I agree with you. Excellent point. Let’s see who this was. This is Andre. Andre Kouriman, I believe. Hope I got that right. Thanks for being here today with us, Andre. Okay, let’s shift from organizational to more individual.

(32:06):

And there may be some debate on this point. This is just my belief. Hey, I’m open to all the takes out there. But I always have thought that, hey, no one owes me anything and I’m going to invest in myself and make sure I’m continually adding to my toolkit, so to speak. But Hans, from an individual standpoint, how would you recommend that professionals think differently about career development in a world where continuous learning has really what I think has become a necessity rather than an option? Your thoughts, Hans.

Hans Kremer (32:40):

Yeah, you already mentioned it, I think in the beginning, because you mentioned that adaptability is key. You also said that you need to unlearn, right? You said it’s a cliche, and I agree, but it’s a very true one, which is quite often the case with cliches. You always need to be willing to unlearn. I also take that very personally because in our organization, we have a lot more young folks than people my age. And what I’ve learned from them, I’ve learned a ton from them. So that’s one thing. I also believe, especially in the age of AI, tacit knowledge will remain irreplaceable. After all, as human beings, we’re sentient. And that tacit knowledge, the implicit understanding, gain through direct experience, yeah, you cannot simply write that down or put in a large language model. Of course, it can learn a lot. You should save that knowledge to the best of your abilities.

(33:28):

And especially the sentience, the capacity, basic capacity to feel and to perceive to be empathetic, like you just mentioned, that will never come out from an AI system in my belief. And when it comes to job rotations, if companies don’t do it for you, do it for yourself. If I look, you mentioned my LinkedIn profile. I already started working when I was 15, perhaps even younger because I was a newspaper boy when I was 13. But I got so much shop floor experience at the beginning of my life almost that I still use today. I still know. I still visit the shop floor. I appreciate truly what’s going on there. I’ve spent a lot of years there. Those are great experiences to have that I don’t think any model will be able to put into me. It simply takes time. It takes time. It takes consistency.

(34:11):

It takes talking to people, communicate. Well, communication, there we go again. And you learn by experience. You learn from colleagues. Only 10% of what we know in the 70 / 20 / 10 framework, if you adhere to that, 10% of what we know is formal learning. The rest is all from colleagues and from the shop floor.

Scott Luton (34:28):

I could pick your entire response and we could put a whole podcast series around it because I got so much to share and I bet Rod does too. But Rod, one of the couple of the many things I liked about his response, number one, going to the gemba. The factory floor is one of my favorite places of all time. Kind of like the concerts we were talking earlier. I’d love to be much more often on factory floors everywhere. And then secondly, I love his suggestion that, hey, if your company is not going to move you around and train you up on different functional areas, do it yourself. Rod, when you think of the onus that’s on us individuals to continue to develop our skillsets, what comes to your mind?

Rod Thomas (35:01):

First one is the orientation. Be a lifelong learner. Adapt that continuous improvement mindset that we all have in business. Well, don’t apply it to just the processes where you’re working, apply it to yourself. And the second piece that I would say the shop floor is always a great place to go. Get your hands dirty. See how things are made. There’s value in that. Whether you want to be in that environment long-term or not, there’s always value in having operational experience. And I would say the opposite is true too, there’s always value in going and working with customers. Get a feel for what they need, what they want. If you can combine those types of perspectives, you’re going to be better overall. And I don’t think either of those are ever going away regardless of what AI does or doesn’t do.

Scott Luton (35:45):

You gave me a great segue, Rod. Thank you very much. And by the way, Rod, not only is he a practitioner with lots of experience in the industry, but he’s having regular conversations prepping the brightest minds to come out of University of Arkansas to go into industry and change our world. So this topic is near and dear to Hans and Rod here. Let’s talk about AI though. I’m going to use this segue Rod just gave me. It doesn’t even need to be said. AI is changing every profession in big and small ways. It’s changing how we live. It’s changing how we plan our vacations. I mean, oh my gosh. Hans, you also mentioned AI in your last response. What have you found to be a big common mistake that professionals make when trying to prepare themselves for an evermore AI-enabled workplace?

Hans Kremer (36:30):

Well, we are all about making companies more aligned and helping them with alignment. AI will not solve misalignment. AI augments in a good way and in a bad way. So if your company is misaligned and you throw in AI without a clear strategy about how to use it and without having clean data in your information systems or out prepping your people properly and all these things, then you will only augment a misalignment problem if you already have it. So that simply will not work. And misalignment usually comes from one of four gaps. So there may be a lack of clear strategy. There may be cultural issues. So if there’s no clear strategy, you have a lack of direction. If you have cultural issues, you have a lack of willingness. If skills and business understanding are missing, you have a lack of ability. And if you have weak processes and IT support, you have lack of support, obviously.

(37:19):

AI does not solve any of those on its own. It can help and it will augment, but like I said, in a good and in a bad way. So that’s the misunderstanding. I think now I see companies adopting AI, looking for quick fixes and cost reductions. Short term, that may help a bit. Long term, they may be aiming for a lot of trouble if they’re misaligned.

Scott Luton (37:37):

All right, so Rod, there’s a lot there. There is a lot there, but I want to start with where he started with his response because leaders do it all the time. They go out. If it’s not AI, they go out and get, it’s whatever the latest, greatest technology is. They source it and then they throw it over to fence or they go look to apply that same said technology to every problem they have in the organization. Oh man, creates all sorts of headaches. But what about you, Rod? When it comes to AI, successful approaches, unsuccessful approaches, what are you seeing? I’m

Rod Thomas (38:06):

Going to agree with a lot of what Han said already. We need to quit looking at AI as just a way to make us more efficient. Let’s spend as much time looking at AI as a way to make us better or differentiate it. Rather than CEO going, I can cut this much headcount, why not go, I could produce a better product or a better service. Make things better, not just, I’ll use a term from the military, Scott, your former Air Force. Force multiplier. Night vision makes two people operate like eight. I think AI could be a force multiplier and we are looking at it in a way as a task multiplier. We can do more tasks, more things than we could before. I would also look at it as a capability multiplier. People can now do things they never had access to do rather than just doing their normal jobs efficiently.

(38:51):

For example, I’m not a modeler. I’ve never done simulations or anything like that. When I was in industry, you had to get an external agency. You’d spend a lot of time and effort with them to model your network. I was playing around with AI within two or three hours. I built a simulation, ran it 10,000 times to model a sourcing decision on an import versus domestic from when I was at Lowe’s years ago. That capability never would’ve existed pre-AI, but it expanded what a sourcing manager can do. It didn’t just let me bang out contracts quicker or pre-qualify people quicker. The things I was already doing more efficiently, yes, it can do that. But think of it of taking that next step of higher level thinking, not just the lower level thinking.

Scott Luton (39:34):

I like it. And I like your force multiplier point as well. All right, so Hans, this might be my favorite question that we ask you the whole hour-long edition of the buzz here today because you’ve worked with countless executives, educators, organizations. You got all these simulations out there that we’ve been talking, me and you talked about a fresh connection for years. I think it’s very, very popular and effective, and that’s just part of what you do. But what do you believe when it comes to leadership? I never get tired of talking about leadership. What leadership capability do you believe is most underdeveloped today and how can professionals intentionally address it and build it up?

Hans Kremer (40:11):

At the beginning of my career, I might’ve said hard skills, but I’ve come to appreciate and learn soft skills. And actually, I spoke to you, you just mentioned the Air Force. I was at a lecture from a former Air Force pilot in the Netherlands, and she shared some stories about going to the Royal Military Academy thinking she would learn weapon systems and hard skills. She came away having learned lots of soft skills, and it connected very well with how I see leadership. As a leader, as a team leader myself, or as a leader at Inchange, I strongly believe that you should always shield your team, that you should have ownership and taking external flag and always have the back of your teams. So there’s mutual trust. I think that’s extremely important. Teams have tough evaluations on content. And if you have those evaluations on content, and you should have them regularly, like you do in the military, you evaluate missions.

(41:00):

So you have tough evaluations on content, but you leave hierarchy out of the door. Your rank is you walk into the room, your rank is outside. And then when it comes to people and colleagues, you’re simply gentle and kind at the personal level. You’re evaluating missions. You’re not evaluating character and people themselves. So I think I truly believe in that, and that can really uplift companies and improve performance. And actually people get happy in their work that way.

Scott Luton (41:24):

I can say basically ditto to everything Hans just shared there. But Rod, what do you see? Leadership capability gaps. What do you see? I’m

Rod Thomas (41:33):

Going to say the same thing. I agree with Hans. And we didn’t set this up ahead of time, everybody. I truly agree with them. I think leadership is all about enabling the success of others.

(41:43):

Leaders are the ones that do that. They should be removing obstacles. They should be the coach, the cheerleader, mentor. It varies for each person. But if you are a good leader, people will follow you. I like to do the shepherd mentality. Sheep can go in a direction you want them to two ways. Either you can have a dog nipping at their heels and making them fearful and they’ll go where you want, or they just have a shepherd that they love that they’re going to follow wherever that person goes. But leaders are the same way. I think it’s much stronger when you have a leader that people want to follow, that is in the trenches with you. Go back to the military. We got to go take that hill. Is that leader at the front or at the back? Are they pushing people to run up that hill in a battle or are they the ones going and everybody else wants to follow them?

(42:28):

That mindset never goes out of vogue and people need to remember leadership is all about enabling the success of other people.

Scott Luton (42:36):

And modeling the behavior

(42:38):

And leading by example. That’s what I heard there from you as well. Rod and Hans, good stuff. We could talk about that question, I think, endlessly. And we’re coming around the final stretch here, which I hate, but we’re going to have a fast and furious finish folks. And by the way, I think this is Andre again. Andre? I think it’s Andre, maybe Andre. But regardless, he/she agreed with Rod earlier about seeing the pradical behind the numbers and how that offers up insights. I do too. I do too. All right, so let’s do this. In a nutshell, Hans, we’re not going to be able to do it justice, but in a nutshell, tell us what InChange does, if you would.

Hans Kremer (43:15):

Well, we help our corporate clients actually to run their businesses from a supply chain, from a value chain perspective. We put people in a lifelike situation in a simulation as teams representing, purchasing, sales, operations, finance, supply chain, and then really make them either save the company from a supply chain point of view and a financial point of view, or go into transformations like making the company from going from a linear supply chain to a circular supply chain or making it a sustainable business. If it’s business in the beginning that makes a profit at the expense of people on planet, how can we, while maintaining prosperity and profitability, turn this into a business that also benefits people on planet? That’s what we do. And actually, if I make it briefer, we help them with the how on top of the what. The whats are quite often known.

(44:01):

We need to be aligned. That’s a what. We need to become sustainable. That’s a what. Quite often, businesses and people don’t know how to do it, and we can literally help them train about how to do it and make mistakes in a safe environment. Learn from that.

Scott Luton (44:13):

Hans, I like it. And I like how the practice of doing and learning from doing is a big part, it seems like, of y’all’s approach at InChange. At Pressure Learning. Yeah. So folks, you can learn more. We’re going to drop the link. If you’ll learn more about what Hans and his global team does, you can learn more at inchange.com. And if you’re listening and you can’t see Trisha’s link, that’s I-N-C-H-A-I-N-G-E.com. So folks, go check that out. And thank you, Tricia. We’ve been dropping lots of helpful links here today. All right, so as we start to wrap, we’re going to make sure folks know I connect with Hans and Rod here in just a second. But we’ve got a couple of quick announcements. The benediction, Rod. All right, so folks, I want to encourage y’all to go check out our resource hub. We have invested heavily into this part of our website.

(44:57):

You can go find that at supplychainow.com. But in particular, Rod, one of the ways that we have been building out this part of our ecosystem is through these Managers Cut research briefings that have come out of our wonderful collaboration between Supply Chain Now and the Journal of Business Logistics, which I think you co-lead. Tell us about this collaboration here.

Rod Thomas (45:17):

Academics do a lot of great research. We communicate it very poorly from a managerial perspective. We write it for each other. We spend 20 pages talking about detailed, rigorous methodology, and managers don’t really care. When I put my old manager hat on, I don’t care about that. Just tell me the so what. So what we started doing, I’m one of the co-editors. We’re taking these really robust, rigorous research pieces, transforming them into 600, 800-word Harvard Business Review-like articles and sharing them with you. We’re just taking great insights and communicating it differently that a managerial audience can pick up and get to the so what really quickly. We think it’s a great partnership. We want to get good research out there. The academics love it because it bridges them with industry. A lot of our industry partners are appreciating that because it’s communicated in a way that they can read.

(46:06):

So far so good. I think it’s been a great partnership.

Scott Luton (46:09):

I’m with you. And I think we’ve published three or four of these, but this is my favorite one. And folks, if you’re listening, the graphic I’m sharing says AI is good at picking qualified suppliers, but it still struggles to pick the best one. And you’ll have to learn, get the rest of the story by go checking out our resource hub, and Trisha’s dropping the link to that. So one more quick thing before we find out how to connect with Hans and Rod. We got a little bit of news, Dr. Rod Thomas. We are tentatively planning to publish a book focused on the readiness rules in 2027. Lots of details are about to come out, but we’re very excited about this project. If you want to be in the know about this book that’s slated to come out about a year from now, go check out the link that Trisha’s dropping right there in the chat.

(46:55):

It’s a simple signup form. You’ll be the first to know when it comes out, when it’s published, and all the other news associated with that. And Rod, I think we appreciate everybody’s support in this initiative. Rod’s got about 37 books published. This will be my first one, Rod. But we’re pretty excited about this, huh?

Rod Thomas (47:12):

We’re very excited. And this is based off of 20 years of talking to employers and alumni and students on what are the things that kids are coming out of school that they still aren’t doing well. A lot of times it’s just an awareness issue. The things that made them successful in school or in their social circles probably aren’t the same behaviors or mindsets that’ll make them successful in a work environment. So we’re helping with that transition for young professionals.

Scott Luton (47:35):

That’s right. Good stuff, Rod. And hey, we got to get after this conversation with Hans, I knew the practical and proven perspective that Hans and Rod would bring here today, but it’s got me thinking about the sequel already. We’ll see. All right, so Hans Kramer, really appreciate what you’re doing out in the industry on a variety of levels. Really enjoyed your perspective here today. Your humanity first perspective is what I call it, seems like to me. If folks want to track you down with what you’re doing at InChange, if they want to see where y’all are at events or whatever, if they want to learn more about Indo simulation programs, or if they want to compare musical notes with you, how can folks connect with the Hans?

Hans Kremer (48:13):

Yeah, you’ve already been so kind to share our website. So inchange.com, which has a news and event page, and they can easily connect with me on LinkedIn. So I have, of course, my own page there as well. You can easily find me. It’s linkedin.com/ian/housecamera. So there we go. Please connect with me.

Scott Luton (48:29):

It’s just that easy. And folks, I bet Tricia is dropping links. Yep, I knew it. A little bit clairvoyant on Mondays. Tricia’s dropped link to Hans directly right there on LinkedIn. I appreciate what you do in Hans and InChange team. And Rod Thomas, same question for you. I know this semester’s about to crank up here in a second. I bet life changes for eight weeks at a time or however long semesters are these days. I don’t know. But Rod, how can folks track you down?

Rod Thomas (48:55):

I’m at the Sam Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas. Just Google that. And Rod Thomas, supply chain management, and it’ll pull up all the good contact information. I’m an email guy. I’m also on LinkedIn, but email’s the best way to track me down.

Scott Luton (49:08):

And do you dare share that here or would you –

Rod Thomas (49:12):

Rthomas@walton.uarc.edu.

Scott Luton (49:15):

Outstanding. I bet you’re going to get a bunch of tire warranty and AI development emails here in about

Rod Thomas (49:21):

Two-word them to you.

Scott Luton (49:25):

Regardless, Dr. Rod Thomas, I appreciate you being here as well. Appreciate what you do. Training up not the next generation folks. We like to call it the now generation because they’re already making an impact. So appreciate Hans and Rod. So again, I want to thank again Hans Kramer with InChange. I want to thank again my wonderful co-host, Dr. Rod Thomas with the University of Arkansas. Big thanks to our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics. Folks, go check them out, learn a lot more there. And big thanks to Amanda and Tricia and even Joshua came in today to try to figure out what we are missing and really appreciate all y’all’s great work. And of course, most importantly, our global audience. As someone told me once, supply chain is the greatest global team sport and it needs to have its own World Cup to that end. But regardless, folks, you got homework.

(50:10):

Hans and Rod gave a lot of practical, proven, and actionable insights here today. Take one thing from what Hans and Rod shared here today. Do something with it. Deeds, not words. Y’all know that’s how we are going to continue to drive good change around the globe. And with that said, on behalf of the entire Supply Chain Now team, they’re almost all here with us. This is Scott Lewton Challenge. You do good gift forward. Be the change as needed. And we’ll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (50:37):

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