Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Logistics with Purpose presented by Vector Global Logistics. In partnership with Supply chain. Now we spotlight and celebrate organizations who are dedicated to creating a positive impact. Join us for this behind the scenes glimpse of the origin stories change, making progress and future plans of organizations who are actively making a difference. Our goal isn’t just to entertain you, but to inspire you to go out and change the world. And now here’s today’s episode of Logistics With Purpose.

Kristi Porter (00:35):

Hi, and thanks for joining us for another episode of Logistics With Purpose. I am Christie Porter with Vector Global Logistics, and this is of course, logistics With Purpose Podcast, the only podcast dedicated to supply chain’s positive impact. Today we have an amazing example of that in motion. Somebody I got to hear speak last year. I’m excited to introduce you to her today. Jen Harper. She is a visionary entrepreneur, change maker named one of women Canada’s most powerful women, top 100 in 2024. What a title. She’s also the CEO and Founder of Cheekbone Beauty. If you haven’t heard of them in Canada, you have heard of them. If you haven’t heard of them yet, outside of there, you will soon, I’m sure, proudly certified B Corp Cosmetics Company, redefining sustainability and indigenous representation in the beauty industry. She is an ultimate example of purpose-driven innovation, leadership, and cultural empowerment.

(01:31):

Jen, how are you? Welcome to the show. I’m wonderful. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here, and I’m so excited after that I’m ramped up just after your interview and getting just your introduction. I’m so excited to talk to you and I know a little bit of your story, but so excited to hear more of it and bring more of it to our audience and learn more about you myself. And we were just having some fun conversation behind the scenes, but we’ll bring that now to our listeners. So before we get into cheekbone and some more of your background, then I’m going to ask you just some quick questions to get warmed up and you can respond with the first thing that comes to mind. Okay?

Jenn Harper (02:09):

Okay.

Kristi Porter (02:09):

Okay. So what’s your favorite hobby?

Jenn Harper (02:11):

Walking.

Kristi Porter (02:12):

Oh, good. That’s a good one. What’s one thing you do to stay productive?

Jenn Harper (02:16):

Schedule. And really, I think the word time block, right?

Kristi Porter (02:20):

Yes.

Jenn Harper (02:20):

Schedule kind of everything. It has to be scheduled or sadly it won’t happen. Agree, agree. Favorite book or movie? Oh wow. My favorite book. I just finished reading it last year. Oh my goodness. The title is about hospitality and it’s like a fancy adjective and then the word hospitality, but it’s about one of the co-founding partners of Madison Park in Toronto, but not in Toronto and New York City. And just the incredible lengths that they would go to for at the end of the day, customer service and what that looks like on just such an excellent scale. Remarkable and something like that. I’m sorry. I’m

Kristi Porter (03:01):

Like, no, that’s great.

Jenn Harper (03:03):

We’ll, totally not remembering that fancy adjective.

Kristi Porter (03:04):

No, as long as the book made an impression on you, that’s what matters. We’ll find it and link to it.

Jenn Harper (03:09):

Yeah, I read that at the end of last year, and it was just a standout of I think what all businesses should be striving for. And for me, as you’ll learn, my history prior to getting into beauty was my origins, if you will, are rooted in the hospitality industry. So I found it to be very fascinating.

Kristi Porter (03:29):

Okay. I can’t wait to talk about that. We have that in common. And then of course we have to ask you makeup essential.

Jenn Harper (03:35):

This one’s always so hard, but I’m going to say like a lip product. Like a lip oil.

Kristi Porter (03:40):

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. So I do want to hear the hardest thing I think about asking people those short answer questions is really, I want to dig into those as well. But thank you for those answers. But I also want to hear more about your background. We started talking about that before we got on the call, and now I want to hear more about it. So tell us a little bit more about your childhood and where you grew up.

Jenn Harper (04:01):

So I was born in Thunder Bay, Ontario, which is the largest sort of city between Toronto and Winnipeg, if you will, because there’s a lot of small towns between here and that part of Canada. So Ontario being the province in the middle, if you will. And Toronto is the biggest city in our country, but it’s still relatively small community kind of situated in the middle of nowhere. So I was born there because my mom was a Lakehead University student and she had met my dad. They were very young when they had me, well young, and I think she was just turning 20 and he was 22, 23, almost 23. And they had moved to Toronto partly thereafter. Their relationship didn’t last very long. So then moved to the Niagara region in St. Catherine’s, Ontario with my mom at the boat the age of four. And her and I, she was a single mom. We lived here until she met my stepfather and then had my two brothers and my dad went on to meet someone else and had three boys with them, with her. And so very blended family, but I’m the only child of my parents, and St. Catherine’s is and was as I was growing up. Again, another very small but big kind of town. It has all this, but it’s not a big city like Toronto or New York or anything like that. But yeah, so really quiet I think upbringing, if you will.

Kristi Porter (05:20):

Fantastic. Well, it sounds like you already had some interesting experiences, both in locale, blended family, the superpowers that come with being a single mother. Is there a story from your early years now that you’re looking back that you think, oh, I can see now how that’s led me to the path that I’m on, or I really resonate with that, or how we’ve somehow all turned into our parents despite not wanting to

Jenn Harper (05:45):

So true, so true. Oh my goodness. So many things and therapy takes us on all these wild journeys of understanding our parents. But I really believe and see, because sometimes people ask this question, they’re like, you came from this and you started this and you’re still working on this. Even though I don’t think of cheekbone as being super successful, it’s perceived that way. And I feel like we’re just getting started and there’s so much more work for us to do, but people wonder, how do you not give up is I think a big question. I get a lot. And my mom, even though has and comes from her own massive dysfunction of her upbringing and childhood, I really recognized how she had created me to be confident and confident with the sense of that it’s not this false confidence where I learned that you get that confidence and I’ve learned you get confidence from actually accomplishing things and doing things. And so it’s really, I think with the support of a really solid parent in that way, that confidence can be developed in us. And so I’m really grateful for that. And then flip side, when I think of parenting skills, and my mother’s still alive and I love her to death, but just some awful decisions for sure, but really made me, in a sense, stronger

(07:02):

Able to handle more challenges. I went to, oh my goodness, no joke, like 10 different schools through elementary into high school, three different high schools. How hard is high school to begin with? So just in my mom being an army kid or she calls herself an army brat that they moved around the world and she thought that was normal to move every year, every two years when I met my husband, he has lived in the same house his entire life with both of his parents. So it’s just really interesting people’s different perspectives. But being forced to start a new school every couple of years makes you learn to adapt. I recognize I used to bend my personality to get kids to like me and make up stories and all kinds of things, and that really proved to be a great skill when I got into sales later in life, you’re just trying to get someone to like you or buy your thing. It’s kind of the same thing. It’s that influence. So yeah, really strangely odd and tough and dysfunctional, but super loving. We were never wealthy, super poor, but never starved. My mom would always come up with, I could always, when I look back, I could tell obviously when money was tight because it would be like we’re having all of this sort of vegetable dish and there’s no meat there or something like that. So I would notice things like that now when I recognize, but it was still delicious and we were still fed,

Kristi Porter (08:31):

Right. Yeah. It wasn’t a conscious meatless Monday decision.

Jenn Harper (08:35):

It was like affordability.

Kristi Porter (08:37):

Yes, for sure. Well, and even just the moving around, you must have learned a lot about adaptability and flexibility, which are incredible lessons for an entrepreneur. Certainly hard ones to learn to live as a young kid, but ones that can certainly help pay off when you run your own business as well. Exactly. Well, let’s talk about your professional journey. So you started in sales and marketing, working for some of those international corporations. Tell me about the hospitality background.

Jenn Harper (09:04):

My first job ever was as a dishwasher in a restaurant that was famous for a family of Sunday dinner, family style kind of place. And I remember that just being such a horrible job, but for some reason I had sort of stuck in that industry. And so it went from being the dishwasher then to the bus girl, then to a server, and then spent probably about 12 years and then in management even through school kind of thing. So I was always in that space. In Niagara, we have a lot of wineries in our area, so lots of boutique style hotels and fine dining restaurants. And so I found myself in my later years before leaving that path in hospitality in those kinds of places. And it so heavily focused on the details of the customer experience, just like I know the rooms in this one in, there’s only 20 rooms or 24 rooms, but the detail of how each room was designed to marry one of the vineyards in the local area, and then even just the detail that went into designing the menus.

(10:07):

And when you’re working with not only a chef, a pastry chef, like the Garman Jay chef and the details that each of these people would put into the food that they’re putting on the plate and how the dining room experience was. I learned so many things from being in that space and reading that book, I was like, oh, wow. It just brought back so many incredible experiences. And then how you sort of strive for that when you are in that kind of environment and learning under that kind of environment, you really recognize the power of making someone’s day special in the hospitality industry. You had that opportunity a lot. And in the early days of building cheap phone, I knew that that was the kind of place that we wanted people to feel. We knew we were an e-commerce business, that’s where we started. But even through e-commerce, how your customer service experience operates is really important. You’re kind of like this unknown entity in the ethos of the internet and how do you really connect with the customer? And it’s about providing really thoughtful, intentional experiences. We used to wrap our orders, hand wrap them, and then each order you’re getting, it was a pink feather in the origin days. Oh,

Intro/Outro (11:13):

Wow.

Jenn Harper (11:14):

And I was really just trying to come up with something that would be super special and memorable for the customer. And that was just one of the unique things that we had done. It really has led to how we try to accommodate all of our customers. We don’t want people to purchase a cheap owned product and them not be happy with it. So even when it is something that they don’t like in terms of maybe a shade, we really are super accommodating and to try to make, we’re not like no refunds. If you buy it, it’s yours forever. We’re like, no, we want you to have an incredible experience with our brand. And we layer and weave all of that into the brand even today.

Kristi Porter (11:49):

I love that. And yes, I think everybody should have a experience at some point. It’s very humbling. There’s a very short feedback loop. Somebody is immediately happy or immediately angry. And it is one of those where when you make somebody’s day, it is worth all those hours on your feet. And it is a whole different subculture unto itself as of course the bear is very popular in the US now, but I’m like, have we not had more shows about this industry? Because it is so its own ecosystem for sure. But yes, everyone should have that experience because I feel like so many people, you lose all sense of entitlement if you’ve been on the other side when you walk into a restaurant and we should always make a restaurant, how big is our group? I’m always very thinking through those aspects, having been on the other side of it, and you are very personal as to how you treat people.

(12:43):

And so yeah, it is definitely a new lived experience. So I love that. I feel like I was just having this conversation with someone the other day. It’s very sad that we have to remark so much about good customer service because it has become so rare. I love the fact of how much time and effort you’ve put into that and wanting to, especially as an e-commerce business, you could be very hands off. You could be like, sorry, you can’t return it to a store. You can’t do all of those things, but you’ve really gone the extra links and I love to hear that. So what brought you to Cheekbone? It’s a hard left from hospitality to a beauty business. So how did you end up there and what gap did you see?

Jenn Harper (13:26):

Yeah, so in between hospitality, I then left that because obviously we’re constantly dealing with salespeople from food service suppliers, and so left hospitality and went to work for Cisco Broadline food distribution and then found myself and just strictly seafood. And so I was a sales and marketing rep for a seafood company, and that was in 2015 when I was still there. I had a actual pop out of bed, middle of the night dream because how does someone go from, yeah, it’s complete, like you said, hard left of these three native little girls covered in lip gloss. And it was so crystal clear to me, I still can’t because when I think about it in my reasonable sensible self mind right now, I was in the right mind does that right? Says yeah, about

Kristi Porter (14:16):

Following your dreams

Jenn Harper (14:18):

From selling fish to starting what I thought was going to be this brand. And it was at the time just a lip gloss, but it felt so real and it felt like that was my path. And face it, I really believe it was right. It was what I was intended and supposed to do. As challenging as entrepreneurship is I feel like we’ve just been able to, one, exist in a really competitive market space, but also fill a gap in the sense that, so I have this dream and those three native little girls. So the whole, if I’m just being like, okay, why? How? Well, there’s clearly never been a brand that marketed to people of color in general. We see and have seen a lot of black founded brands come, but even now we’re talking this dream was just, it was 10 years ago now, and that is sort of just feels like it’s coming to the surface. When did Rihanna celebrity

Kristi Porter (15:09):

Launched

Jenn Harper (15:09):

Fenty? I swear that was only seven years ago that she launched Fenty eight years ago maybe. And so it’s relatively new. And back then I was really strongly just focused on this idea of representation and how much I thought it mattered and still do. But that was the initial foundation. And then I get into the beauty industry as people learn and start to discover things about a space they find themselves in. There was just so many areas or needs improvement went down the list of just an industry notorious for waste, unregulated single use product. There was just so many gaps in the beauty space. Once I started to spend more time here that I realized, okay, if we can get this in front of enough people, I feel like that’s where we can truly make a difference. And everybody is focused on these things. The clean category and clean beauty and surely make safe for humans is number one priority on many people’s lists. But the longer we’ve been here, the more we saw this gap of clean doesn’t necessarily mean safe for the planet.

(16:19):

And that’s where we really have honed in. We’re taking these indigenous roots seriously about this idea of land stewardship. That’s what indigenous people are known for around the world. How can we incorporate that into this brand? And that meant thinking really deeply and thoughtfully and honestly and transparently about supply chain and where things are made. And at the end of the life of this product, what’s really happening to it? Are things being recycled, aren’t they? So many questions over the years, so many more to answer and figure out. But that was essentially the foundation and how we started.

Kristi Porter (16:56):

And where did the name come from?

Jenn Harper (16:58):

I had worked on this for quite some time, almost like nine months to a year I think, but I hadn’t had a name. So you have this idea, this thing you’re working on, you’re talking about it with some few close people. And I was listening to a podcast and the founder of Spanx was on it, Sarah Blakely. And so she was talking about how she named Spanx, and one was the K sound from the letter K, how it’s memorable and people remember it. So then I became obsessed with finding a K sounding word, and she rhymed off a bunch of brands like Nike, Coca-Cola, all of these brands with K in it. And another day driving around because as a rep you do a lot of driving and I was like, cheekbone. Oh my goodness, I love cheekbones On every human. Indigenous people are known for having higher, more prominent cheekbones. If you look at historical pictures and paintings and you see chiefs of trial, it’s just cheekbones. Were always popping in those photos and anything that you look up. And then I got home and did some marketing research on it, and people with higher cheekbones were perceived as more trustworthy. So I was like A new brand, you’re looking for trust and building that. And the word became cheekbone. And at first in Canada when we applied for our trademark,

(18:14):

It’s our logo with the word cheekbone and Canada rejected it, but then I applied for it in the United States and then they approved it. And so then Canada, we went back to them and they’re like, okay, fine, they’re bigger. They said, yes, you can have it then. So it works.

Kristi Porter (18:30):

Oh, that’s so interesting. I am going to have to find that podcast or get you to send it to me. Really, I

Jenn Harper (18:35):

Don’t even remember which one where she was talking about it.

Kristi Porter (18:38):

That’s interesting. And I always feel like I would love to see her kitchen for many reasons, but I love following her on Instagram because she must have an endless supply of coffee mugs. They all have these crazy sayings and things, and so every photo I feel is her of this saying in this coffee mug. So she must have an endless supply of them, but

Jenn Harper (18:55):

I bet you she has a coffee mug cupboard.

Kristi Porter (18:58):

I bet so. I bet. So a very large one. But that’s really cool about the sound of that and how it all came to be. Speaking of your core values, all of this has sort of blended together so well based on the seven indigenous grandfather teachings, love, respect, bravery, truth, honesty, humility, wisdom. Tell us more about this. How do they influence your day-to-day leadership and how do they, at the center of your brand, people are learning much more about your culture at the same time they’re trying to buy makeup, which is so cool. And so tell us just how it influences you and how it’s kind of come to become the ethos of your brand.

Jenn Harper (19:39):

And so this is so tough because culture is very precious to many of us depending on who we are, where we come from, it’s got different perspectives based on people. And so this was always really tough. One, the word indigenous is a pan term. So much like Asian, we could be from totally different countries have totally different cultural practices and all of our tribes and nations around the world really are different yet the same in many ways. And I think when building brand, I looked at this as this opportunity to express and I think teach more people about indigenous people in particular where I came from. So I’m Ojibwe, I come from the Ojibwe nation in Canada, but our tribe and nation literally, and I’m only using these two different words just so everyone understands from a perspective, depending on where you are, we talk about ourselves in different ways.

(20:37):

So in the US the word tribe is very common in Canada Nation is how we talk about our groups of people. And historically though, for us, there was never that border. So Ojibwe people, if you go to Minneapolis or Minnesota, that entire area is all of our people. And my home reservation where my father lives is literally I think half an hour from the Minnesota border, not even. And so in building this, I was like, okay, we’re going to incorporate my culture, but also when we talk about it publicly, we’re going to use the language of indigenous so that it feels more encompassing of us as a whole. And yet there are similarities and differences. So because I feel like I can only really speak to my culture, that’s where we then add into the branding and building really the teachings, but which is really interesting about many indigenous groups, we all have teachings that come from our certain nations and tribes and a lot of them have very similar stories and storylines and our history as groups of people is also fascinating because no one was ever writing books back then.

(21:44):

We really are what they call an oral society. We passed everything down through storytelling. It’s still even to this day, how many of our communities operate. The older ones or elders as we call them in our communities, will really passed on wisdom and knowledge to the next generation through storytelling at ceremonies, events, family events. My family’s very traditional and I’m not because I grew up with my mom who’s not indigenous. So obviously I have a different upbringing than if I would’ve lived with my dad. And so any family event, now if I’m there and my father’s there and our family, there’s always sort of an elder from our community there. And literally it’s just conversation. But what’s happening is this transfer of information from one generation to the next, and it’s really a beautiful way to see how these things are passed on. I knew from my experience in the corporate world of all the organizations I work for, that every company has a set of core values. And so when building cheekbone, I thought, wow, I have this opportunity. I can think about all the good companies I’ve worked for and what I’ve loved about them. And then the opposite of, oh, what did I not like

Kristi Porter (22:56):

About?

Jenn Harper (22:56):

And we can build core values and based on the kind of business that we want to work in and what we want to see in the world. And so we took these seven grandfather teachings and married them together in different ways, but really important for us is just this. And what they really are is a set of values and principles. So we all have those as our own individual humans and human beings. We would hope we all have our own set of values and principles that we stand by. And so we just layered that into the business. And when I think about how we hire, are these people demonstrating these core values or these values and principles that we know operate and work well within our organization? So it’s been helpful in that manner. And then it’s also been helpful for so many things. When I think about just the teaching about humility, to me one of the most important ones because we’re so imperfect and I’m having conversations like this one with you, I’m on stages and I’m sharing information about this idea of protecting our planet, but the facts are we’ve humans, we’ve not done a great job in this arena and that’s why we’re in the state that we’re in.

(24:04):

And so I think it’s about being really open and honest and clear, and that’s where humility comes in. I feel so many times people think they’ve solved something and it’s like even if there’s imperfections in it, they’d rather die on that mountain instead of seeing the imperfections and seeing where we can change things. Right now, brands are existing to vilify things, plastic being one of them. They just love saying how horrible it is. Meanwhile, if we don’t look at the overall picture, yes, we know it’s material humans created that we know is not going anywhere, it can be repurposed. We now know that energy consumption to use it is less than what’s required in making aluminum, wood, glass, all of these things lighter, multiple reasons. But it’s like are we being clear about where it’s coming from now in this PCR version and what that means and is that being made safely and all those things.

(24:55):

So there’s tons of questions and nuances surrounding that. But instead of us as a brand ever just vilifying something without having all the facts, and the only reason I’m sharing this is is sort of a new space for us and we’re moving into more wholesale opportunities and some small independent boutiques are literally sending us, oh, you use plastics? No. And I’m like, well, what kind of education is this poor independent retailer getting based on what they’ve been told about certain things? And I can tell them, but it’s amazing to me how much and fast misinformation travels because what marketers love to do and what they’ve been great at is just one liners, one word’s, clean beauty

(25:35):

Eco front. We all think these things mean something, but nothing means anything unless you have the facts and evidence to back it up and really be clear that nothing’s 100% that’s what people wanted. We get the question about pfas, which is a horrible chemical thing, but the truth is if you test it, all of us, it’s in us now because we have so much of this crap on the planet that it’s literally seeped into everything. That’s why I can never say to anyone with a clean conscience that yes, we don’t intentionally add any of those ingredients or ingredients like that to our product, but would I be able to ever say something’s 100%? Well, no, I just couldn’t even feel comfortable doing that because I feel like what if it that day in the, you know what I mean? This is how we try to do it. This is the ingredients we’ve sourced and supplied. But the 100% scenario, and it’s unfortunate because as human beings, we just love everything to be black and white and it’s just not that way.

Kristi Porter (26:32):

We want our guarantee not enough about

Jenn Harper (26:34):

This, but this is where these teachings play such a big role. I know some brands will just be like, yep, we 100% don’t do this. And I’m like, how could they say that they don’t? And brands about ingredients they use and then they’re like, oh, we’re vegan and then there’s likes Elba. I’m like, that’s beeswax, right? There’s such a lack of information. And when you talked about regulation, I think you mentioned that a

Kristi Porter (26:58):

Little.

Jenn Harper (26:59):

So regulation happens on a large scale for giant companies that have a team of lawyers,

(27:06):

But I’m sorry, the scariest part that we should all be afraid of is an individual that doesn’t have necessarily the education or the background that’s making makeup in their kitchen that’s possibly getting a supply chain from somewhere around the world that they know nothing about. And now they have an e-commerce business, but they don’t know enough information actually, and that’s not regulated, but this is where the tough thing is we beat up all these giant conglomerates, but the truth is they’re so protected and have done the legwork to make sure they’re regulatory and compliancy concerns are covered. We all know they’ve done ingredients. I think for a long time there was ingredients that were led and heavy metals and things that of course should never have been. We’re talking about those were removed I think during the industrial age we’re talking, it was so long ago that that is certainly not going to happen anymore.

(27:58):

And it’s this shift because we know people like me who have this idea and started a business and I knew nothing from the beginning. And what I know now I wouldn’t have bought from me in the beginning. Telling the truth how we started to where we are is completely different. But on my path, I’ve admitted and learned and when I’ve learned something, it’s what the Maya Angelou quote, when we know better, we will do better. And so that has been who we have been all along and that’s why we’re really open and transparent about the path and the journey. But to me, the scariest part is the folks that just have no background in the industry and they’re just selling stuff on the internet. Right.

Kristi Porter (28:38):

Yeah, it’s a lot of great points. Thank you for unpacking that and thank you for there’s always two sides to every conversation. Nobody can know enough, nobody can do enough. I feel like that’s always a full conversation to have. And like you said, we are people who want guarantees. We want that a hundred, we want that logo. Even as busy consumers, I think there’s a lot to even learn. You’re hoping a logo helps you make a better decision and a certification and you’re at least making a better choice than you did the day before. But they’re all very complex scenarios, and as you said, one of the things we learn in marketing is one of the easiest and best tactics is to create a villain. And so I feel like all of that comes into play. So thank you for doing that. And thank you for also just the leadership and saying, here’s where I’ve learned and here’s where we messed up and here’s where we’re trying to do better.

(29:32):

And I feel like that’s an important part to play as well. And I want to talk about speaking of those topics, the B Corp certification, which we’re both proud members. One of the reasons we chose to do it is because as a marketer, I fall for marketing tactics every day very gladly and happily. And I wanted us to have a certification that said it’s not just what we say, there’s somebody else there as well. And we wanted people to feel better about those things. And so I’d be curious, that’s where I first heard you speak was at the conference last year. You’ve been certified since 2022, so you’re a couple years ahead of us. And I’d love to hear why did you take that journey? What has that process been for you and how has it helped you refine your process?

Jenn Harper (30:15):

So a lot of times I do get this question of where, when it comes to sustainability, where did you start? How did you start? I discovered the B Corp community many years ago and had not done a deep dive into it. You’re just seeing the logo, hit the website, try to figure out who they are, and really discovered that, oh, okay, this is really interesting. And then whether it’s coming from my seafood world, you start to learn a lot about certifications in seals and what they really mean and if they actually mean something. And unfortunately on this journey, I’ve learned that many seals and certifications don’t mean anything except a brand is willing to write a check to the organization. And that felt so unfortunate. And then we started to do this deep dive of B Corp and what that would mean for us as a small business. And it really just gave us a platform to start from and we were willing to go all in and recognize where we would need to make changes and improvements, but then at least we would have somewhere to start from and no matter what the results were. And so that was our journey and really discovered that this is a process and it’s about questioning everything that you’re doing,

(31:28):

Supplying the B Corp people with the answers and looking at your entire supply chain from everything that you’re doing, employee engagement, all of those sorts of things, and really seeing where you stand. And I feel personally that the B Corp community and this certification isn’t just a matter of writing a check. It takes time and it’s a process, and it’s one of the only ones that I personally now believe in after this process of seeing how many others operate and it aligned so well with our indigenous values. They’re extremely similar. And the belief system, I felt it was just something that as an indigenous brand, that it would give the consumer who’s educated enough to understand a seal of approval, but then it would also now create for us a framework to make changes and grow. So on this journey of transparency, we now know and see when and how we can make improvements and everything doesn’t have to happen overnight. It’s like a process.

Kristi Porter (32:29):

And so you talked about the early days of which now looking back, you probably wouldn’t buy from yourself. Now you’ve gone through this certification, you have some benchmarking also being completely new to this industry. What have you learned about sourcing and supply chain? What have some of those challenges been for you in trying to do it in a way with integrity and being aligned to your own and your company values? Because again, it is sometimes I describe it as the wild west out there. So what was that journey like?

Jenn Harper (32:59):

Yeah, extremely challenging because we learned many partners aren’t willing to divulge a lot of information, which is an immediate red flag immediate. And so for many of them, we were doing right with and they would give us the correct information, but then you really learned, okay, well if they don’t have anything to prove this to us, then we can no longer work with them. And so you’re then trying to figure out solutions and go down different paths. But it’s kind of pretty obvious. It was early on that, okay, we will continue this relationship or not. And I think it’s really, even over the last few years, I’ve just noticed the huge change in partnerships, people understanding you have to share this information. We have what we call our product dossier. So for every product we sell, we have the supply of the every ingredient, which includes packed. All of it is in this dossier and detailed of origins, everything and people, I really think it’s fascinating, and this is really interesting time we’re in right now because in Canada with this whole tariff conversation, there was such a whole movement on by Canadian and you can’t buy beauty. That is when we mean this. I was like, well, what do you mean if you want the labor? Of course, okay, our lipsticks and glosses, those are made here in Canada.

(34:19):

Other products we have are made in Italy, so we’re really just supporting the labor supply because I can tell you the ingredients is not coming from anywhere here in Canada, which a lot of it’s really interesting to me that people are now swinging their canadianness around,

Kristi Porter (34:35):

Right?

Jenn Harper (34:36):

Meanwhile, I’m like, I told him, give me your supply chain channel and I’m going to call you out because you look even big companies, I think it’s like craft roasted your peanuts here in Canada. You’re not buying freaking peanuts here, you know? Can’t buy peanuts in Canada, right? It’s, it’s silly.

Kristi Porter (34:52):

This whole concept is silly. To be

Jenn Harper (34:54):

Perfect, honest,

Kristi Porter (34:55):

I’m visiting in Canada and on the news this morning I heard a new term maple washing. I was like, what? I’d heard greenwashing. I heard purposeless washing, I heard all these things. And then I heard, yeah, hear and no Nova Scotia this morning I heard the term maple washing, and then they were explaining that exact thing. If they have their maple too close, you have to really examine is it actually made in Canada or not? And I was like, wow, whole new education this morning,

Jenn Harper (35:22):

But how are we all going to even find that stuff? And it’s going to happen. Even so we have a wine industry in Canada, and I know honestly here in Niagara, there’s not enough grapes for all the wine that this area is producing. They’re coming from overseas, whether it’s South America or European vines or South Africa, whatever. But no one can manufacture enough grapes. So they’re allowed to call it Ontario made wine as long as it has. I think it was like 60% or it was even, I think they went less for a while, the supply was so low. So they have to bulk it up with grapes that are coming from other parts of the world. So as much as we think these things, it’s like we’re beholden to the environment too. What if it’s a brad grape season? Nobody’s getting wine, but for businesses still to function, operate, they have to make wine, and so they’re going to just get a supply from somewhere.

Kristi Porter (36:13):

Absolutely, yes. It’s been fascinating to watch from start to finish. And as an American traveling through Canada, it’s been a completely new education as well and fascinating to see. And yes, all kinds of things. We’ll have to do a little more talking offline, but I also want to know you’ve also thank you for speaking with us today. I have heard you speak at the Champions retreat. You’ve spoken to Apple, Canada and First Nations communities, so you’re obviously using your voice, your platform for creating these conversations. How do you hope to inspire people for change? Is it more of an education? Is it more about, what are a couple of things that you hope to really get out and really change conversations?

Jenn Harper (36:59):

So I do speak in many places and a lot of times it’s for different reasons. And I think the main reason I started was I felt like there’s just like we make up a lot of stories as humans about people, places, group, everything. We just love making up stories. So I felt like I really want to share that our communities have struggled, but I think we are changing that narrative and because I am one of the people that is in that space of, look, we can have these horrible things in our lives happen, but it’s possible to make change. And I felt like that was just important for me to do for my community. And then I recognized, oh wow, it’s even powerful when I do it outside of my community. A lot of misconceptions, unconscious bias. So I felt like that was really important. It also, from a business perspective, quite honestly, it’s a great way that we’ve been able to build brand awareness when you’re a small scrappy startup. We just don’t have all of the marketing dollars that giant companies have.

(38:00):

And I really found it to be so healing as well at the end of the day. Wow. A side of it I don’t think I ever realized until the last few years of like, oh, the more I get to tell this story, the more I get to heal. And then that also in turn creates opportunities for people to recognize that healing out loud isn’t for everyone. It most definitely not, but what if someone who needed to hear a story like that on that day got to hear it? And so there’s so many features of it that have been beneficial for sure.

(38:33):

And I think when we find work that we love and we feel like we’re doing something good, we just get to feel good about ourselves and share with people that it is possible too to create the work and life that you want that makes your life feel purposeful. And so that’s been part of it, but I don’t know if I have any, I’ve been asked this before about a big grander mission, and it’s really about empowering our communities, women to see anything’s possible, moms to see that indigenous people like anyone who might need to hear it or see that you can build something from absolutely nothing. I always think that concept is just so interesting. The brand didn’t exist 10 years ago. It started from a dream and here it is today.

Kristi Porter (39:15):

Amazing. Well, and you have certainly grown it in many ways and being able to tell those stories, one of the places you’ve been able to do that of course is TikTok. You have over 200,000 followers, which is amazing. If I were on TikTok, I would follow you. I have not made myself do that yet. Not venture there. That is your marketing also your background and action. I think one of the difficulties you had, the hospitality industry, again, we talked about that’s immediate feedback right there. You were visiting suppliers when you were in the seafood industry. You’re more revealing from people in e-commerce, but social media of course allows you that deeper connection. So what has that been like? How has that been connecting with people? What kind of feedback have you received there?

Jenn Harper (40:01):

Good and bad. I think that is always the moment you put yourself in sort of a public platform, which social media platforms are,

(40:10):

You’re going to get good and bad feedback. And we get to decide one as a brand. We take all feedback seriously. And then me personally, I get to decide what feedback I’m going to listen to and pay attention to. And then there is some great feedback out there. I am not perfect. This brand is not perfect. Change is needed constantly. I am one of those lifetime learning people that loves that kind of stuff. And I’m always looking for ways to improve and grow. And I know I have so many weaknesses, so I love the feedback. Although social media, it can be tough. And I feel like my biggest concern is always for younger generations, I feel really frightened for the stuff that happens online. There is so much hate that comes in the moment. You put something, even my husband does his cooking stuff on social media, and it was just funny to read people, if they don’t like the way you butchered the piece of chicken or whatever, they’re going to make a comment about it. I was like, you just put yourself out there. That’s what it takes. But paying attention to the feedback that’s needed is

Kristi Porter (41:12):

Important. Yeah. Well, you’ve also done something outside of all of this incredible work. You’ve also, another innovation you’ve had is the Cheekbone Beauty Scholarship Fund in 2021. What led to this initiative? How have you seen it grow and what is your long-term hope for this?

Jenn Harper (41:29):

Ooh, I just want to see this keep growing and growing and growing and I think we will. But I’m really proud. I’m so proud of that. That’s just something that I’m so proud of is being able to do this work of making incredible makeup, but then at the same time have this mission behind it that we want to see indigenous youth empower themselves and arm themselves with whatever type of education they need, but the scholarship fund is there for them to use. Very cool.

Kristi Porter (41:59):

And I also kind of along the lines of lessons learned and reminds me of something you said a minute ago on LinkedIn. You recently put out a powerful reflection about an event that didn’t go well. You talked about earlier about being able to admit your mistakes and admit to those and talk through those and lessons learned and move forward. And so you talked about low turnout, missed expectations, but you also highlighted how your team quickly pivoted and found unexpected wins. So it is hard to admit mistakes. It is hard to admit them publicly. What was that experience like for you, and I guess share for those who haven’t read it yet, it will link to it as well in the interview, but tell us a little bit more about that and kind of where that came from.

Jenn Harper (42:42):

Yeah, because tough, you dedicate a lot of time and dollars to something, and when it doesn’t work out, it is frustrating. But I love that we have such an incredible team of people that work around us and immediately we’re like, okay, what can we do? We’re all the way here. This is not going well. This didn’t go well. Can we invest this time and money into something else? And so we found really just quickly opportunities and made them happen. And it just goes to show that it’s just about not giving up despite it being awful. Yes, I would’ve loved that organizer to call us a week before and say, this isn’t going well. We haven’t sold enough tickets. Let’s cancel. And I’d rather have that airline credit for the, you know what I mean? And saved all the time and energy to get to the place, but that didn’t happen.

(43:32):

And so we got to figure it out and fast and make that work. And so we did. And I’m just so grateful that sometimes I was the one to be perfectly honest, in the most negative headspace that day. And it was my team that was like, okay, there’s this here, this here, this, and go do this. And I was like, oh, wow. So it’s always about when I think about hiring and the people that have great set of values and principles and adhere to these seven grandfather teachings, even sometimes myself, I need to be reminded of them. And we just picked up and moved on really, and was able to make it worthwhile in the end. But super tough. It’s not easy, not at all. And that’s where it’s like your team matters, the people around you. It matters so much. I fully believe that it matters more than we think. And I recognize that now as someone who has been working on building this brand for 10 years, the right people around you is critical and we can’t positive people that, and not toxic positivity. It was just real

Intro/Outro (44:32):

Actionable,

Jenn Harper (44:33):

Okay, we’re here. This didn’t go well, here’s what you can do. And yeah, incredible. So I’m just so grateful for those folks.

Kristi Porter (44:42):

That’s fantastic. Thank you. And yeah, hard lessons learned, but that’s also what inspires you to keep going. And obviously the times you look back on as well, that will help you continue to grow as well. A couple final questions as we wrap up here. So you have been in this business for 10 years. You’ve learned a lot personally, professionally through the industry. So what are a couple of changes that you’d like to see in the beauty industry across the board? Oh wow.

Jenn Harper (45:12):

That is such a big question because I feel like there’s so many things. Obviously I think some more policy I guess around the platforms that we think are helping us as consumers. I’m not naming names, but there’s apps, there’s platforms and what can honestly happen. And we’ve experienced, and it’s very negative that your information about your ingredient lists are uploaded into these platforms. But the truth is those platforms don’t owe your supply chain. They don’t know anything about your dossiers that you have on each product. And surely pigment from one source could be terrible and loaded with heavy metals, but from another source it cannot be. And it’s tested and it’s proven safe. And unfortunately that’s just one example of what that actually could mean. So the source of a raw material, where it’s made, how it’s made all matters. But unfortunately on these, what is the international nomenclature, the inky lists or ingredient lists that we find on products, these platforms and apps are just uploading information that they honestly don’t know anything about and giving you a score, how is that even possible? Nevermind legal, trust me, I’ve been trying to figure that part out without having it to cost us a whole bunch of money. And what they want me to do now

(46:26):

Is pay them to then fix it all and do it properly.

Kristi Porter (46:30):

Is

Jenn Harper (46:30):

That fair?

Kristi Porter (46:31):

Okay. So then let me turn that question around. What would you like consumers to do?

Jenn Harper (46:36):

Oh, wow. This is always so heavily weighted. I feel like the job is on the brand to provide the proper

Kristi Porter (46:42):

Information,

Jenn Harper (46:43):

But that’s not happening. I really think the weight, because consumers are just regular people that aren’t scientists, that aren’t researchers.

Intro/Outro (46:51):

It’s

Jenn Harper (46:52):

Not up to them to go researching on Google, which one, Google is a messed up platform now because which they’re going to research is the paid information that’s

Kristi Porter (46:59):

All

Jenn Harper (47:00):

Falling to the top. So it’s so frustrating that I don’t think the weight is on the consumer, but at the end of the day, we know the people have power. And so I think it’s just my whole mission for the consumer is just consciousness of being really conscious about how what you use, purchase by where do you need it, do you not? I think consciousness is just where I want the consumer to lie. I really believe if the brands aren’t going to do this correctly, then unfortunately we need policy put in place, which would include all of these platforms that came into existence. I’m going to say with good intention, trying to make us safer consumers and purchasers. And then there’s a big disconnect between some of the platforms are talking about food regulated versus cosmetics, industry regulated, and they’re two different narratives completely. They’re not the same industry. There’s this whole push a couple years ago about the palm industry and palm ingredients, and I’m like the cosmetics, it’s like less than 10% of palm consumption that even the cosmetic space takes up. This is a food industry mask concern and should be right of palm supply and responsible palm supply and all of those sorts of things. But it’s really interesting. But we know that a headline can say anything and doesn’t really mean anything below. So there’s a lot of frustrations and I just don’t fix it on this one call,

Kristi Porter (48:21):

But it’s important to have the conversation. I think that’s part of what we’re

Jenn Harper (48:26):

Continuing

Kristi Porter (48:27):

To discover here.

Jenn Harper (48:27):

And you’re getting this one that’s at the top of my list

Kristi Porter (48:30):

Because

Jenn Harper (48:30):

This is something that’s just so irritating because we get messages from customers being like, you have this ingredient, this is bad. And I’m like, oh my goodness, it’s not though, right? Here’s why then. But for us, our time is our resource and an energy, and for me, it’s well used if I’m educating our customer correctly.

Kristi Porter (48:48):

Sure, absolutely. Well, speaking of what’s next for Cheekbone Beauty, what’s coming soon? What can we expect?

Jenn Harper (48:54):

What is next? We are working so hard to just build and scale in a, what’s the right word here? A healthy way. I was really in a different mindset a few years ago, but I think for longevity, we’re doing this a lot slower than I imagined five years ago, and I’m finally okay with that.

(49:17):

So our scale is going to be slower. We know in Canada we’re really well known, and of course our mission is global beauty recognition. We want to be recognized as this indigenous brand for beauty. And we really are excited about this process of us defining this category, which we feel we have pioneered is called indigenous beauty and the word indigenous beauty. We want to be synonymous with sustainability, but based on all of this entire conversation, if you will, there’s so many parts and pieces to that, but based on our indigenous roots, we really feel like this is where if you’re in the indigenous beauty category, your protection of the land, air and sea should be a big part of the work that you do and work on. We feel culturally that’s where we fit the best. And just like Korean beauty is known for skincare, French beauty is known for perfume. Indian beauty is known for Vedic beauty practices. And so this is what we want to be known for is sustainability. And so we’re working really hard at making that known.

Kristi Porter (50:17):

Yeah, I have no doubt it will happen. And finally, what does the phrase logistics with purpose mean

Jenn Harper (50:23):

To you? That would mean that really understand your business and and where you get things and why. And that’s supply chain and all of those pieces of information. I think we’ve looked at it sometimes, and even one product, there’s legitimately what you might think is this one thing, but there’s literally six other partners that are impacted by that product coming into the world. And so really understanding that and thinking about it from this model of being really mindful in how you approach it.

Kristi Porter (50:56):

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. This has been a delight. I have loved having this conversation and just being able to talk through some of these complex topics with you. So how can our listeners find you online? Where do they go to buy cheekbone? Tell us all the things.

Jenn Harper (51:11):

So we are Cheekbone Beauty on Instagram and TikTok, and you can find us@cheekbonebeauty.com. You can purchase our products at sephora dot ea or jcpenney.com in the United States, and you can find us and you find me. I’m cheekbone Jen on Instagram and TikTok as well, and I’m on LinkedIn if anyone has any more questions too.

Kristi Porter (51:33):

Perfect. Thank you so much for your time, for everything you’re doing. I can’t wait to see what the next 10 years brings to you and to cheekbone and how we continue to see it grow and see you lead with your voice and your values in this space. So thank you for being here with me, Jen. I really appreciate it. As always, listeners, thank you for tuning in and if you have enjoyed this conversation, then we’ll be here again in two weeks with another fantastic guest. So be sure to subscribe. Thanks so much. Have a good day. Bye-bye.