[00:00:00] Jason Miller: there’s just this incredible demand right now being created for all of these goods necessary to, um, construct data centers.

[00:00:11] Jason Miller: One of the challenges though with that is we’re seeing very pronounced price increases. Um, as an example, uh, memory chips coming from South Korea, which is the high bandwidth memory, eight hundred and forty-nine percent year-over-year price increases based on the import data. So that’s not, that’s not eight point four nine, that’s eight hundred and forty-nine percent.

[00:00:32] Jason Miller: It’s now eight times more expensive. ​

[00:00:47] Scott W. Luton: Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and the one and only Karin Bursa right here with you on Supply Chain Now. Karin, how you doing today?

[00:00:57] Karin Bursa: I’m doing great. It’s great to be with you. I want to offer my warm welcome to all the supply chain movers and shakers out there as well that are joining us today

[00:01:06] Scott W. Luton: Outstanding. We welcome them all. That the, the people, uh, still make global supply chain happen each and every day. Uh, and it’s great to have you all here with us here today as we deliver the latest installment in a popular long-running series here, where we’re gonna be sharing key insights from the latest quarterly edition of one of the leading transportation industry resources, the U.S.

[00:01:25] Scott W. Luton: Bank Freight Payment Index, this time for Q2 2026. Now, we always get a lot of feedback from this practical, actionable series, and one of the reasons, Karin, is we dive into deep what the data’s saying, but we marry that with practical practitioner observations from the market, both at a national level and a regional level.

[00:01:45] Scott W. Luton: It’s really a formula that’s been working well. And we’ll not only get a good sense of what transpired in the domestic freight market in the second quarter of 2026, but we’re also gonna share a few nuggets that will help prep you and your teams for where we are now and where we’re heading. I tell you, we’ve heard from tons of supply chain teams who lean on a variety of resources like this one to better understand the landscape so they can better plan moving forward.

[00:02:09] Scott W. Luton: News you can use, Karin. Is that right?

[00:02:13] Karin Bursa: Indeed it is. And you know I’m a big proponent of facts first, not feelings. And this, I look forward to this report every quarter because it really helps us keep our, our fingers on the pulse of what’s happening in the industry. So the freight payment index is really valuable, uh, because it gives us that perspective on how raw materials are moving, finished goods are moving.

[00:02:37] Karin Bursa: And when raw materials and finished goods are moving, that means the economy is moving. So I look forward to what the team has got to share with us today

[00:02:45] Scott W. Luton: I’m with you. We got a great panel joining us in just a second. 

[00:02:47] Scott W. Luton: uh, folks, as we talk about the U.S. Bank Freight Payment Index for Q2 2026, one essential element to what makes this so powerful is all the treasure troves of data processed through U.S.

[00:02:59] Scott W. Luton: Bank. Did you know, Karin, U.S. Bank processed $46 billion worth of transactions in 2025 alone? So all those data-driven insights and o-o-one, one thing you mentioned, the exceptional commentary from Bob Costello, the chief economist over at the American Trucking Associations, all that is what makes this U.S.

[00:03:19] Scott W. Luton: Bank Freight Payment Index a terrific resource for many business leaders out there. So, with that said, Karin, let’s welcome in our one-two punch here today, starting with Bobby Holland, director of Freight Business Analytics at U.S. Bank, and back by popular demand, Dr. Jason Miller, the Eli Broad Endowed Professor of Supply Chain Management at Michigan State University Hey, hey, Bobby. Welcome back. How you doing?

[00:03:47] Bobby Holland: Doing well. How are you?

[00:03:49] Scott W. Luton: Wonderful. And Jason, how you been, my friend?

[00:03:51] Jason Miller: Doing well. Thanks for having me

[00:03:53] Scott W. Luton: You bet. This is gonna be a terrific hour. Uh, so Karin, we were talking World Cup in the green room. It has been the undeniable, one of the biggest sporting events in at least my mo- my recent memory. Uh, we have fans across the spectrum.

[00:04:08] Scott W. Luton: Some are deep passionistas, others are more casual fans. But all that, I want to use that as a fun warm-up question. So as we keep digesting the 2026 World Cup experience, uh, Bobby, what was one of your favorite aspects of what we saw play out across the World Cup?

[00:04:27] Bobby Holland: For me, it was more, uh, socially from the standpoint. I’ve got family in Canada,

[00:04:32] Scott W. Luton: Okay

[00:04:33] Bobby Holland: and they are way more into soccer, at least in the re- where I live than in Canada than here. Uh, they’re diehard Bills fans here, but the part that I got a kick out of was just seeing all of the cars. It’s like everybody’s car is decorated with the flags driving all over, and it, it’s like the whole, uh, area where my, my wife is from turns into a circus

[00:04:57] Bobby Holland: national flags all over the place, and it’s just crazy.

[00:05:00] Bobby Holland: People honking their horns in traffic with the f- you know, it’s like I said, it’s like mayhem for that period of time. So, uh, it cracks me up ’cause it doesn’t happen down here

[00:05:08] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. Bobby, I love that, and all the imagery of the passion from the fans was certainly one of my favorite parts. Jason, uh, World Cup 2026, your thoughts?

[00:05:18] Jason Miller: It’s over. We can focus on baseball again

[00:05:21] Scott W. Luton: As we said, there’s fans across the spectrum. Uh, and really quick, Jason, who’s your baseball team?

[00:05:29] Jason Miller: I am a Yankees fan, so

[00:05:32] Scott W. Luton: Well, man, y’all got, uh, another great team. My Atlanta Braves had a har- hard, had their hands full with, uh, the Yankees last weekend, I think. Um, and Karin, back to World Cup, though. What– We, we, and we both live in Metro Atlanta, so we saw maybe a different perspective for a, a many f- a lot of folks.

[00:05:48] Scott W. Luton: What were your, was your favorite experience?

[00:05:50] Karin Bursa: Yeah, I, the fans were my favorite. Um, so I, I did go down to the Fan Fest that was in, in downtown Atlanta near, uh, near the stadium where a few of the games were hosted. And it was, it was really, I mean, it rivals SEC football tailgating. It was, it was a lot of fun and a lot of, a lot of great people watching.

[00:06:12] Karin Bursa: So, uh, there were flags of every color, um, and, uh, support for every team, not just the teams that were playing here in Atlanta.

[00:06:20] Scott W. Luton: I’m with you. I w- I was downtown the night, the morning after Argentina won the semifinal, and the, you could feel the energy even over coffee and, and just that morning. So a lot of good stuff. 

[00:06:31] Scott W. Luton: All right, so we gotta get into supply chain stuff. We got so much to get to here today, Karin, Bobby, and Jason. And Bobby, we’re gonna start with, um, you know, if you had to put the Q2 2026 version of the U.S.

[00:06:44] Scott W. Luton: Bank Freight Payment Index into a one-sentence theme, what would that be, Bobby?

[00:06:51] Bobby Holland: Well, what I would say is that Q2 was a capacity story, not a demand story. Uh, we had soft freight volumes, but tighter capacity, higher fuel costs, and then there were also structural carrier constraints that drove transportation costs sharply higher across the country

[00:07:07] Scott W. Luton: Okay. A preview of coming attractions, folks. Stick, stick around as we cover seven key takeaways, two at the national level and five, uh, we go through each of the regions, so stay tuned. But first, we gotta set the table a bit, a little bit more. Uh, and Jason, you know, uh, we’ve enjoyed several conversations with you over the years.

[00:07:26] Scott W. Luton: We always learn. Always leave here with 17 pages of notes, Karin, when Jason and Bobby joins us. But for our new audience members, Jason, may not catch you on social or a lot of your appearances, share a little bit about yourself and what you do

[00:07:39] Jason Miller: Yeah. So I’m primarily a research faculty member here at Michigan State. Um, a lot of my work is either in the trucking space, a lot on safety, pricing dynamics, employment dynamics, and the like. And then a lot of my other work is more the intersection of different supply chain topics and economics. So a lot having to do with tariffs, regulatory changes, and things of that sort

[00:08:05] Scott W. Luton: Okay. Outstanding. And folks, If you love supply chain data, folks, I’m telling you, do yourself a favor, go follow Dr. Jason Miller on LinkedIn, and we’re gonna make that easy. We’re gonna share one of his recent posts right here, one of my favorite ones.

[00:08:19] Scott W. Luton: Okay, Karin, uh, I wanna level set, too, on your perspective in terms of how industry leaders like yourself and, and many, uh, supply chain leaders out there utilize resources like the US Bank Freight Payment Index, and kind of a two-parter here. You know, you’ve been with us numerous times over the years as we dive into this.

[00:08:37] Scott W. Luton: What’s been some of your favorite feedback we get on the show?

[00:08:39] Karin Bursa: Yeah. First of all, we get a lot of feedback on this particular show every quarter. and I think it’s because it is so rich in insights and indications of, of what just happened. So it’s still a lagging indicator, but it’s a tightly correlated lagging indicator for us in that it’s, it’s the end of Q2.

[00:08:58] Karin Bursa: And, um, freight and freight movement is a great indicator. We get the regional breakdowns when we look at things like raw materials moving into factories or finished goods moving into distribution centers and retail shelves. I’m telling you, when freight moves, that means the economy’s in motion. So I look forward to this conversation, and I think many supply chain leaders look forward to it or download the report that U.S.

[00:09:24] Karin Bursa: Bank makes available to us as well. So really looking forward to the discussion today

[00:09:29] Scott W. Luton: Well said, Karin. Great to have you back with us as we dive in. And then Bobby, again, for our newer audience members, you know, a lot of folks may not know we’ve been covering this series quarterly for, uh, six or seven years now, I think. So for our new audience members, tell us a little bit about what the U.S.

[00:09:45] Scott W. Luton: Bank Freight Payment Index is, what it analyzes, and how it works

[00:09:49] Bobby Holland: Well, the Freight Payment Index, US Bank Freight Payment Index is our view of the marketplace. Uh, it’s comes from over $46 billion in payment processing data. Uh, it measures actual freight shipments and spending nationally and regionally. it’s seasonal, uh, seasonally and calendar adjusted so that it gives shippers a clearer view.

[00:10:12] Bobby Holland: It’s also, uh, same store sales type of comparison. So we’re not measuring, you know, our business, but we’re, extrapolating the, the economy at large. So it’s our view of the marketplace. Um, it’s information, it’s other data points that our customers and subscribers can use, uh, to gauge themselves in the market

[00:10:32] Scott W. Luton: Good stuff. And folks, you’re seeing some of the images, uh, especially the regional breakdown, which is my favorite part probably, uh, each quarter. And even better yet, we’re gonna drop the link so you can go check it out. Uh, you can view it digitally, you can print it out, spill coffee on it, you name it, 

[00:10:46] Scott W. Luton: Hey, Scott, I neglected to mention one, mention one thing that we’ve done to enhance it. It also contains data, uh, rates related data from our partner DAT. Uh, we talk about rates and their impact on the economy, but now we actually have, uh, you know, data from an arguably number one freight data provider. Uh, so again, that’s, uh, just makes the information more valuable to our subscribers

[00:11:13] Scott W. Luton: I’m with you. That’s taking the value proposition a, a step further. So good call, great call out there. And we just conducted the freight rates version, as well. Um, okay. So we’re gonna dive into the seven key takeaways with quite a panel with Jason, Bobby, and Karin.

[00:11:29] Scott W. Luton: And where we wanna start first, uh, with Bobby is really the, the, the national market outlook, right? At a, at a very high level. I think you got two key takeaways that you’re gonna share with us there. Tell us more

[00:11:43] Bobby Holland: Well, nationally, freight demand remained subdued. Uh, we saw the shipments decline 1.1% from Q1 and 2.8% year-over-year, but shipper spending rose, you know, 6.4% and, uh, quarter-over-quarter and 28% annually. And th- that divergence is what, uh, led to the theme of, this particular issue of the Freight Payment Index.

[00:12:09] Bobby Holland: we also wanna mention that, you know, higher fuel class w- higher fuel costs, while it played a role, it was not the strongest, uh, issue at the market. It’s tightening truck capacity, we believe so, and our data, we believe, shows that

[00:12:23] Scott W. Luton: Yep. Okay. So getting out of the gate at a national level. Jason, when you hear that and when you combine what Bobby shared and what the Freight Payment Index shares with what you’re seeing, and you measure that every single day, give us some thoughts, Jason

[00:12:36] Jason Miller: Yeah. So I think that the key thing is we’re seeing right now is on aggregate freight demand is either, depending on index, has either shrunk a little bit from last year or gained a little bit from last year, but it’s essentially a universal read. The demand on aggregate is not really that changed from where we were a year ago.

[00:12:58] Jason Miller: What we are seeing though is a bifurcation in terms of certain shipper verticals are doing phenomenally well, other verticals are struggling. And the clear pattern is, is shippers whose products are needed for this stuff, you know, building the physical ecosystem supporting AI computing. So wholesalers of electrical goods, so copper wire and things like that.

[00:13:20] Jason Miller: Phenomenally strong business. On the other hand, major appliance makers. Um, you’ve seen Whirlpool publicly say that, you know, 2026 is a worse year than 2025, and 2025 itself wasn’t that good of a year. You can see furniture production as measured by the Federal Reserve continues to decline and is now, you know, 20– over 20% down from where it was in 2017 or from where it was in 2021.

[00:13:45] Jason Miller: And so what we’re seeing on the demand side is there’s pockets of strength and pockets of weakness. It sort of balances out on aggregate. And then on the supply side, you’ve had a major contraction, um, you know, ongoing contraction of supply that continued all through last year, likely, um, further facilitated by regulatory crackdowns, especially on spot market related capacity.

[00:14:10] Jason Miller: That’s I think the big story is some of that capacity that really lives on the spot market, um, has been more affected. My read right now is I’m actually starting to see some signs that capacity has likely found a bottom based on new truck sales, based on where the employment data’s at. And then, um, and so what this has done is we’ve had a very sharp run-up of spot prices for the first, uh, you know, this year starting really in December last year.

[00:14:40] Jason Miller: The data is indicating though that spot prices reached a peak in late June, early July, right before the 4th. We have seen them come down on both absolute basis, but also on a line haul basis, um, especially as diesel has went up is substantially higher now than what it was in, let’s say, early July. But rates are actually lower on absolute terms.

[00:15:01] Jason Miller: But a lot of that is just regular seasonal cooling. And so now what we’re waiting for as we move through the second half of this year, you know, we’ve got a break check week coming up here at the end of August to see how much tightening occurs with that, and then trying to see how things tighten up once we get into more into the holiday season, um, to really get a sense of where the tea leaves will be for 2027

[00:15:22] Scott W. Luton: Folks, you see why we love Bobby and Jason when they get together. Karin, uh, I’ve been– I was trying to stick,

[00:15:29] Karin Bursa: I was, I was trying to take notes too, and I was like, “Wait a minute.” We’ll, we’ll come back to that. Yeah.

[00:15:34] Scott W. Luton: Bifurcation, bifurcation bottoms and break checks. Three things he mentioned. What, what your thoughts, Karin?

[00:15:40] Karin Bursa: Yeah. Well, I mean, the brake checks are important because that, that can slow down capacity based off of what the, what the checks are actually showing. What stood out to me, the number that jumped off the page, was the 28%.

[00:15:51] Karin Bursa: So shipments are down or flat, um, while spending is up more than 28%. That’s a big gap. So that gap tells us something fundamentally has changed in the supply and demand equation. Um, and for supply chain leaders, I think it’s really important that they look at this as an early indicator, and they should, um, you know, don’t wait for demand to rebound before you start thinking about capacity because as Jason said, spot rates have been much higher than what we’ve seen historically.

[00:16:27] Karin Bursa: So if demand starts to strengthen from here, we could see considerably more pressure on transportation costs and service availability

[00:16:37] Scott W. Luton: Good stuff, Karin. Don’t wait, folks. Uh, all right. 

[00:16:40] Scott W. Luton: So I think from national level, we’re gonna go to the Wild Wild West, and we’re gonna work our way across the country regionally. Again, this is my favorite part of, all this data. And, uh, Bobby, let’s start with you. What are you seeing? What was your key takeaway from the West?

[00:16:57] Bobby Holland: Well, the West was the standout performer. We see that shipments increased like a half a percent quarter over quarter and five fi- 5.5% year-over-year, which was the strongest annual growth of any region. And we saw spending increased 12% quarter over quarter and almost 36% annually. And there are factors that supported this, including the fact that after the wildfire, housing starts way outperformed the national average, and there was a 17% May increase at the Port of Los Angeles

[00:17:29] Scott W. Luton: All right. So Jason, when you think about the activity specifically, the nuances and, uh, the specific factors playing out, um, out west, what do you see?

[00:17:40] Jason Miller: Yeah. So I mean, when you can see it too for intermodal’s doing very well right now. I know a lot of that too, especially with Q2, was the West Coast in Q2 of 2025 was especially weak because you had the astronomically high tariffs that the US put in place on China, which really caused a drop in, uh, Chinese import volumes.

[00:18:02] Jason Miller: And so May and June of last year were very weak for imports from China. Um, May and June this year are better for that. So it’s gonna, um, you know, helps cancel out. You know, for July was phenomenally strong last year for containerized imports. This year unlikely to be that strong. and so I think that to me, that’s been the biggest dynamic I’ve been looking on the West Coast piece is just getting a sense for where import volumes are at, and I literally just finished making course content for my master’s program, um, just today.

[00:18:36] Jason Miller: And so, you know, the, you know, right now containerized imports US, they’re down about half or 2% from where they were year to date last year through the middle part of the year, but up 6% for that month of June. So, you know, I don’t think anybody’s expecting a major drop in imports, uh, through the rest of the year.

[00:18:55] Jason Miller: Um, and we’re now gonna be kind of in a, you know, wait and see on the resilience of the consumer as we move into that holiday season

[00:19:04] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. All right, Karin. There’s a lot of good stuff there from Jason and Bobby. And by the way, I don’t know what my grade would be if I was a master student in, uh, Jason Miller’s class. Karin, I know you, you’d get a A-plus. I’m thinking C, C-plus on my end, Karin. What do you, what do you think?

[00:19:20] Karin Bursa: Uh, you’d have fun though, Scott, I’m Okay. That, that gives you all the information you need.

[00:19:25] Scott W. Luton: Uh, all right, so Karin, Outwest, 

[00:19:27] Karin Bursa: I think the second half of the year is, is gonna be, uh, interesting and I would continue to watch the West carefully, uh, just because of import, import volumes and then intermodal and, uh, and the activity that comes from that. I think that the West is gonna give us an early indication of what’s gonna happen nationally, especially if demand for freight begins to strengthen.

[00:19:50] Karin Bursa: and if we, we see recovery, we’re, we’re certainly seeing some industries that are in growth mode. Um, so would, I’d like to see that more evenly across industries

[00:20:00] Scott W. Luton: Yeah, I’m with you. Uh, good stuff there, Karin. 

[00:20:03] Scott W. Luton: I wanna dive in one quick thing on the West. I’m a bit of a nerd, and the West is one of my favorite, uh, topics, and, and Jason stole most of my thunder as expected. But check this out. Uh, June, the June that was at the Port of Los Angeles, number one, which I think Jason and Bobby touched on, the third highest import month of all time at the Port of LA.

[00:20:24] Scott W. Luton: You know, s- number one. Of course, May was a b- good month too. But number two, all told, imports and exports, loaded and, and empty, they topped one million total container units for the third time in history, and I think they’re the only port in the Western Hemisphere to ever do that just once. So that kinda gives you a little bit of a scope of how critical they are, that cog is in our economy, really the global economy.

[00:20:49] Scott W. Luton: Um, all right, so we’re gonna go from the West to the Southwest, and Bobby, we wanna start with you. Give us, uh, your key takeaway from the Southwest

[00:21:01] Bobby Holland: Well, the Southwest is like the most fascinating region in the index. Um, there’s a lot of things that we’ve already talked about, but it’s very vividly represented in the Southwest region. For example, shipments declined 20.2% year-over-year, but spending increased almost 40%, and that’s the largest volume versus spend disconnect in the, the country for the index.

[00:21:25] Bobby Holland: it no doubt illustrates the effect of capacity constraints, such as what we’ve talked about, ELP enforcement, B-1 visa cancellations,

[00:21:35] Bobby Holland: uh, increased cross-border scrutiny and cabotage concerns, uh, basically nuking the, the capacity there

[00:21:42] Scott W. Luton: All right. Uh, Jason Southwest, what do you see?

[00:21:45] Jason Miller: Now, I think that highlights one of the aspects of this, which is when we look at tightening of capacity, there is a certain, I think, a regional, regionalized aspect to it. Um, and as we mentioned, English language proficiency and cabotage, uh, concerns are especially relevant in that southwestern piece

[00:22:07] Scott W. Luton: Yep. All right, Karin, out west. What’d you see, my friend?

[00:22:10] Karin Bursa: Yeah. I got to echo, uh, something that, that Bobby said. I mean, this might, might be the most striking number or disparity in the report for Q2, with shipments down 20% and spending up almost 40%. Um, you know, you get, you get back to that, that balance and, and expense, and looking at, you know, cost per mile, it, it’s a striking disconnect.

[00:22:35] Karin Bursa: And because the Southwest is such an important cross-border corridor for, uh, for North America, this is bigger than just trucking. This is, this is changes in capacity, compliance as we mentioned, and some of the cross-border operations, and that could continue to ripple through from sourcing to inventory policies to manufacturing decisions.

[00:22:58] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. Well, Karin, that’s– Thank you for that segue. I’m gonna pick up on, uh, the manufacturing, uh, uh, you mentioned there and share this data. Uh, so folks, of course, Texas makes up a big sizable chunk, not only the states, but certainly the Southwest region. And the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas puts out a monthly report called the Texas Manufacturing Outlook Survey.

[00:23:19] Scott W. Luton: It’s a survey, right? So keep that in mind. Um, and Texas, did you know, Texas is second only to California in terms of overall manufacturing gross GDP, so it’s kind of a important player. If you look at the Dallas Fed data for 2Q, there was a slight increase in manufacturing production in the state in April, which is good news.

[00:23:39] Scott W. Luton: But since then, at least in May and June, two consecutive months of declining production. And the report for June states, quote, “Other measures of manufacturing activity remained positive, but showed signs of slower growth in demand,” end quote. Now we’re gonna drop a link to that survey, and there’s lots of good information.

[00:23:59] Scott W. Luton: Check out the comments. The comments come from all the manufacturers. Uh, that tells a story in of itself. Um, okay, so we’re gonna move to the Midwest region. And Bobby, key takeaway for the Midwest

[00:24:13] Bobby Holland: Well, the Midwest slowed a little bit. Um, shipments fell 3.7% from Q1, but they were still 2.8% above a year ago. Uh, spending was still elevated at 22.9% above last year. And now the Midwest region, uh, one thing to watch, one thing to keep track of is the role of data centers. A lot of data center products and related activity, uh, in the Midwest.

[00:24:42] Bobby Holland: So even in a soft freight economy, there’s a lot of physical demand that’s, uh, tied to AI and digital infrastructure in the Midwest

[00:24:50] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. All right, Jason, this is kind of your neck of the woods, uh, as I believe, uh, um, I can’t remember. Where in Michigan do you s- do you call home?

[00:24:58] Jason Miller: I’m in East Lansing, so kind of, kind of the middle, middle part of, uh, the state

[00:25:04] Scott W. Luton: Well, so what are you saying?

[00:25:06] Jason Miller: Yeah. So I’d, I’d say right now when you look at the Midwest, and Bobby brought it up, I mean, Ohio is especially on the data center piece, and that’s providing strength. But again, I think, you know, we, we brought it up, you know, even at a national level is just this weak housing market is one of the big headwinds from a freight demand standpoint.

[00:25:23] Jason Miller: Housing permits are at best flat til from last year, if not down a little bit more. They’re certainly down from 2024. The BEA’s price-adjusted data on single-family housing construction, which has taken into consideration size of houses as well, that’s down, um, you know, mid-single digits year-over-year. And so I think that’s been one of the big sort of headwinds, um, on the market.

[00:25:50] Jason Miller: But then that also then has this insidious effect of feeding into the affordability concerns a lot of Americans have, because without supply of those houses, housing prices stay up, though a lot of homeowners don’t want to necessarily see a flood of houses on the market that, uh, destroys the equity value of their homes.

[00:26:08] Jason Miller: And so there’s a lot of, I’d say, you know, ebb and flow, you know, give and take there. But certainly, I mean, I c- I can say it doesn’t feel the construction around, you know, where I live is the same degree it was even a couple years ago

[00:26:22] Scott W. Luton: quick check on the activity along Grand River Avenue. I think that– How’s the activity there, Jason? Is it off the charts?

[00:26:29] Jason Miller: Well, stu- students are gone right now, so it’s, it’s pretty slow

[00:26:32] Scott W. Luton: Okay. All right. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll get a measure of that, uh, maybe in a couple months. Uh, all right. So Karin, the Midwest, what are your thoughts?

[00:26:41] Karin Bursa: Well, I personally, I wouldn’t read too much into the Midwest decline, um, as a, you know, read it as a reversal yet at this point in time because Q1 was strong in the Midwest. Um, and shipments are still positive year over year. So to me, this is a good reminder that one quarter doesn’t necessarily make a trend.

[00:27:00] Karin Bursa: But let’s look deeper, as Jason was telling us, you know, some specific industries that are driving growth and others that are still seeing contraction. So, you know, AI and data center related, we’re seeing growth in those sectors, but then housing is still a huge variable really across all regions.

[00:27:18] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. And, in fact, uh, we’re gonna touch on more data centers in a moment, especially as we when we get to the Southeast. That’s a good call-out, Karin, uh, Jason, Bobby. I wanna talk about housing. we all know how critical housing is, not just to the economy, but certainly, of course, um, manufacturing, the freight market, you name it.

[00:27:35] Scott W. Luton: And I wanna take a little closer look at, uh, some of the things that, uh, Jason in particular was touching on. Uh, this is, this comes from the Federal Reserve Economic Data, AKA FRED. I think the St. Louis administers, uh, the St. Louis Fed administers this, if I’m not mistaken. Uh, anyway, despite a bit of a rebound in overall housing starts in June, second quarter 2026 was down 5% from the previous quarter.

[00:27:57] Scott W. Luton: Um, Jason, as I was going through, uh, folks, if you want supply chain data education, go through Jason’s LinkedIn feed. I mean, almost every day he, he shares his perspective, but the data that bolsters it. And one of the things I landed on, Jason, was your comments about two weeks ago on, whether we get optimism or maybe pessimism from the housing, um, you know, ecosystem.

[00:28:22] Scott W. Luton: Give us some thoughts here, Jason

[00:28:23] Jason Miller: Yeah. It’s, it’s not very easy to be optimistic right now at the moment. I mean, when you look at pending home sales, they’re running about 30% below where they were consistently running in 2017 through 2019. They’ve been gangbusters starting around July 2020 through about January or February of ’22. And when the Fed raised rates and, uh, mortgage rates went up with the 10-year yield going up, they just crashed.

[00:28:51] Jason Miller: You’re seeing, uh, mortgage rates, um, are now ki- kind of hovering at about the highest levels they’ve hovered in a year. So you’ve seen, you know, slow… You know, even softer on, um, it’s kind of that side of things. Wall Street Journal just had an article not that long ago. Lumber prices are up, so home building costs are higher.

[00:29:10] Jason Miller: and obviously the energy, uh, price shock doesn’t help housing because shingles are primarily s- you know, made from, uh, oil derivative, um, being asphalt. You’re talking the, surcharges for getting, uh, concrete mixers out to construction sites is now paying a lot more for diesel. and we’re seeing diesel futures even today are back, you know, $4.30 a gallon.

[00:29:37] Jason Miller: You add about a buck, at least a buck to a buck 25 that you’re looking at. You know, we’re stuck around $5.35 to $5.50 diesel right now unless something changes. So it’s just not a… There’s not an encouraging environment there. but the bigger question then is just where’s the 10-year yield go? We had, uh, the consumer price index data today came in as expected.

[00:30:01] Jason Miller: We’re gonna get the producer price index data tomorrow. We’ll see where that is. Um, but I think we’re gonna be all watching closely whether the Fed decides to raise interest rates when they meet in September

[00:30:10] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. Uh, and then going back to that Texas Manufacturing Outlook Survey, a lot of comments from manufacturers, “Please bring the interest rates down.” I’m not sure if that’s gonna happen at all. We’ll see. Um, and we’re gonna give a snapshot of the freight market ahead, especially from Karin and Jason in just a moment. Um, all right, so let’s hit the Northeast, uh, the Northeast region. And Bobby, we’ll lead off with your key takeaway from this region. Tell us more

[00:30:38] Bobby Holland: Well, we see that the Northeast stabilized after some first quarter disruptions, but shipments were essentially flat, so, uh, quarter over quarter, but they were up 2% over last year. Uh, spending increased 5% from Q1 and 26.5% from a year ago, marking the seventh consecutive quarterly spending increase. this also notes that the, uh, World Cup preparation likely added some modest freight to Boston, New York, and Philadelphia

[00:31:08] Scott W. Luton: Well, I know one thing the World Cup added. I saw the story in Boston where the, uh, uh, the beer freight really picked up steam. They were consuming plenty of adult beverages in Boston. Um, Jason, the Northeast, what are you seeing?

[00:31:23] Jason Miller: Yeah, not, not much to help, but that’s a region I don’t tend to focus on quite as much just ’cause it’s not the freight generating hub, uh, with the decline in manufacturing activity really over the last 50 years that it used to be. I mean, you obviously have some strength for building of semiconductor plants and things like that, but once those plants are done, they really don’t generate that much freight at the end of the day, and especially not of the truckload variety

[00:31:49] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. All right. Karin, Northeast, thoughts

[00:31:54] Karin Bursa: Well, what Jason just said, freight volumes are basically flat, but the spending has increased over seven consecutive quarters now. So that definitely is a trend that, that is, uh, worth keeping an eye on. But it also tells us that the transportation costs aren’t higher simply because of a, a one quarter fuel story.

[00:32:17] Karin Bursa: There’s something more structural happening around capacity and then continued f- fuel costs going up as well.

[00:32:23] Scott W. Luton: Yep. Good stuff there, uh, Karin. hey, a second ago, before I hit the Southeast, a second ago, we talked about, uh, Dr.

[00:32:31] Scott W. Luton: Miller on the housing, the U.S. housing market. Folks, go check that out. Give it a full read, and you can also share your own two cents on that and, and of course, check out many of his other, uh, posts. And one more thing about the housing market I read. Um, and folks, look, I’m not a real estate guru, so let me, let me just, uh, put that disclaimer up there.

[00:32:49] Scott W. Luton: But the, um, existing house, uh, sales market, right, doesn’t impact the freight market, but that hit a 30-year low, I think, in the last couple years, and that hasn’t rebounded for a lot of the same reasons that, uh, Jason put out there earlier. So we’ll see where we go

[00:33:05] Karin Bursa: Yeah. But, but Scott, remember when people buy new homes, then they refurbish and repair and,

[00:33:10] Karin Bursa: you know. So that, that drives good, um, good freight volume as well. It may be through retail or through home improvement stores, but, uh, usually when somebody buys a new home, there may be new carpet involved and, uh, some new furnishings.

[00:33:24] Scott W. Luton: the magic is in the, the indirect spin. I like it. Great point, Karin. Um, all right. So maybe it’s just we when we buy a house. I’m like, “No more, no more budgets. No more budget. We’ve got into the house. No car, but no TVs.” Uh,

[00:33:37] Karin Bursa: No air conditioning, just we’ve got a roof, we’ve got a roof over our head. We’re 

[00:33:41] Scott W. Luton: Oh, gosh. All right. So from there, let’s come home to where we’re, at least me and Karin call home, the Southeast region.

[00:33:49] Scott W. Luton: Uh, Bobby, what’s your key takeaway from this part of the world?

[00:33:54] Bobby Holland: Well, the Southeast posted its first shipment increase in three quarters. Uh, shipments rose almost 1% quarter over quarter, but remained, uh, six and a half percent below year ago levels. Uh, spending did climb, however, 10% sequentially and 23.7% year over year. Uh, again, data center construction in Northern Virginia and Atlanta provided an important freight tailwind, uh, helping offset persisting– helping to offset persistent housing related, uh, softness

[00:34:24] Scott W. Luton: Outstanding. We’ll touch more on that, uh, the data center factor in a second. Jason, I hope you pay attention to the Southeast market or you’re gonna hurt my feelings. What are, what are you seeing down here?

[00:34:33] Jason Miller: Yeah, no, I th- I think, you know, as, as Bobby described it, the, you know, the story is, again, this one sector that is just a disproportionate amount of freight growth year over year helping to offset, uh, you know, the housing sector that has been weak and is absolutely, and that housing piece absolutely critical for the Southeast.

[00:34:52] Jason Miller: And I think we’re even starting to see signs of that in terms of how hot the flatbed market especially was the first half of this year, but also how it’s now cooled down quite a bit. Again, normal seasonality, flatbed peaks, um, really about March through June, and then starts to calm down, um, as construction starts to get sort of on the other side of things.

[00:35:13] Jason Miller: And so again, that’s gonna be one of those things I’m gonna be watching very closely over the coming months to see if we see cooling that is beyond sort of normal seasonality

[00:35:22] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. It’s good call-outs there. Karin, what are you seeing here?

[00:35:26] Karin Bursa: Yeah, this is– it’s a trend that I find fascinating. I mean, AI becoming a freight story. you know, we tend to talk about AI as software and computing power, you know, the digital elements, if you will. But building the infrastructure out is an enormous physical supply chain. Um, and they are, you know, building these data centers just as quickly as possible.

[00:35:50] Karin Bursa: Um, so that’s construction materials, electrical equipment, cooling, to use, uh, Jason talking about, um, the market cooling, but cooling systems, servers, water, power infrastructure, all of that is coming together around these data center initiatives, and, and that translates into real freight, a-and to growth.

[00:36:11] Karin Bursa: And, and we are definitely seeing that in, um, in the Southeast and in the Midwest

[00:36:16] Scott W. Luton: So the, uh, uh, Atlanta Journal-Constitution had a fascinating article, I thought, that took a look at the growing relationship between the data center bonanza and the warehousing market, especially in s- these six cities or regions that I’m showing here right now.

[00:36:30] Scott W. Luton: And for folks listening, I’ll mention the cities or the regions rather. Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Chicago, Virginia, right? Uh, and Austin and San Antonio. So Dallas and Phoenix in particular saw massive increases in leased warehouse space associated with the data center boom in 2025. But look at this next chart. Uh, if you look at this one, in, in those six areas or the regions I mentioned a minute ago, the share of leased warehouse space associated with data centers has doubled from 7% to 14% from 2022 to last year, 2025. And my hunch, and probably the panel’s hunch, I don’t know, I’m not gonna speak for anybody, is that’s gon- that trend will continue, and of course, it’ll impact freight activity.

[00:37:14] Scott W. Luton: Karin mentioned some of those things, generators, cooling chillers, transformers, server racks, and more. And folks, we’re gonna drop a link to what I thought was a good read in the AJC. And all of that really gives us a nice segue, uh, Jason, uh, because I would love for you, and maybe the rest of y’all to weigh in on what we’ll call, w- some folks are calling the physical ecosystem of AI and how all that’s impacting supply chain, but especially the freight markets.

[00:37:40] Scott W. Luton: Tell us more, Jason.

[00:37:41] Jason Miller: Yeah. So if you look right now, air freight imports, as an example, are up about seventeen percent year-over-year, um, on a weight basis, which is the easiest way to measure this– measure with Census Bureau data. That’s all-time records higher than where we were at in twenty twenty-two when the, um, containerized import ports were all log jammed, and a lot of importers switched over to air freight.

[00:38:03] Jason Miller: This is all because of large servers and GPUs and things of that sort that are driving this volume growth. You know, sales of electrical goods wholesalers are up thirty percent year-over-year, and that’s even adjusting for price changes. Professional equipment wholesalers like computers, it’s up fifteen percent from last year.

[00:38:22] Jason Miller: Electrical goods production in this country is up about five percent year-over-year. That’s transformers, large batteries, and things of that sort. Um, construction steel production is around the same levels it was in twenty twenty-one and early twenty twenty-two in the midst of the warehouse building bonanza.

[00:38:43] Jason Miller: And so you mentioned, uh, refrigeration and cooling. Price-adjusted new orders for refrigeration, um, cooling equipment suppliers, they’re up sixty percent from where they were in twenty twenty-two. And s- and so there’s just this incredible demand right now being created for all of these goods necessary to, um, construct data centers.

[00:39:08] Jason Miller: One of the challenges though with that is we’re seeing very pronounced price increases. Um, as an example, uh, memory chips coming from South Korea, which is the high bandwidth memory, eight hundred and forty-nine percent year-over-year price increases based on the import data. So that’s not, that’s not eight point four nine, that’s eight hundred and forty-nine percent.

[00:39:29] Jason Miller: It’s now eight times more expensive. and so you’re seeing for many of these different types of products, um, you know, Eaton has said their statement has been the price to build a gigawatt of data center capacity has went from about six billion dollars to thirteen billion dollars since twenty twenty-two

[00:39:50] Jason Miller: And s- and so that, that’s their estimate.

[00:39:52] Jason Miller: Um, it’s actually different from what the Census Bureau and the Bureau of Labor Statistics have in terms of price changes. But, you know, their, their boots on the ground perspective is things are more expensive. Steel is 40% more expensive now since the president took office so, um, because of the tariffs.

[00:40:08] Jason Miller: And so the price of building all these things is going up. And so the challenge, I think from my standpoint for the freight market is, uh, couplefold. One is that really most freight growth where we’re seeing shippers doing better than they were last year or two years ago is in this one sort of vertical.

[00:40:29] Jason Miller: And it’s in a vertical where when you read reporting by Bloomberg that 70% of Microsoft’s AI related revenue is OpenAI, you start to get worried that basically we’re building this ecosystem out for two companies right now, and that’s OpenAI, who makes ChatGPT, and then Anthropic, who makes Claude. And so the concern there is if we are overbuilding, what then happens on the downside of that?

[00:40:58] Jason Miller: Because we’ve recently had a overbuilding boom in warehousing because warehousing capacity was remarkably tight in 2021 and then the first half of 2022. We started all this warehousing, um, in ’21 and ’22. But then as it started to come online, especially in ’23, vacancy rates started rising and pr- and, uh, construction now of warehouses is down almost 40% from the peak level we were at in late ’22, early ’23. And so the concern of course is that time period I described, you know, as things cooled in construction, especially in ’23, we had a very deep, painful freight recession that occurred in terms of lost physical volume of freight that’s moving. And so the concern that I have is when you have a weak housing market, when you have consumer spending that is challenged, I think is a safe way to frame it, is if anything happens that causes sentiment towards building this ecosystem to cool, then there would be a cascade over into the freight markets before we can get sort of the other sort of demand side cylinders, um, firing

[00:42:17] Scott W. Luton: Okay. We asked, he delivered. Karin, react to, uh, that description and observations on the, uh, physical supply chain, physical econ- economy associated with AI

[00:42:29] Karin Bursa: I’m very bullish on the economy driven by AI. So, uh, but, but I believe that, uh, Dr. Miller is giving us some, you know, some, some good caution signs that we should pay attention. So maybe I’m cautiously optimistic, but I’m still very optimistic um, just because it’s gonna take us that time to build that additional capacity in the market and the power infrastructure and the water infrastructure, uh, to support that.

[00:42:54] Karin Bursa: I wish there were actually more jobs associated beyond the construction process for long-term job growth, um, uh, in an AI-driven economy. But I think we’re still just scratching the surface of where AI can be applied, not just in supply chain, but in business. optimistic to cautiously optimistic, I would say

[00:43:15] Scott W. Luton: I like it. I like it. Uh, one more thing. Jason, you’d mentioned copper in one of your earlier responses, and I was just doing a write-up on copper the other day. Dr. Copper, as it’s being referred to oftentimes because of its impact on, on economic thing, all things economics. Um, copper is up 50% year-over-year.

[00:43:36] Scott W. Luton: Um, and the despite challenges in the two largest copper producers in the world, um, the International Energy Ass- uh, Agency, the IEA, sees a possibility of a 30% supply deficit by 2035. Yeah. You look at copper and you look at steel, which with, uh, Jason mentioned as well for, for construction, um, those both being up 40 and 50% is, is, I mean, that’s a tangible impact. And then you double that with, with transportation costs being up over 20% to 28%, uh, for the year. Um, the- these are very real economic challenges that, that we’ve got to look at for the long-term return on investment of building out this new infrastructure.

[00:44:23] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. Folks, lock down your pipes, lock down your AC units. Uh, we’ve seen the bad actors, uh, take advantage of, uh, the demand out there for sure. All right, really quick. Uh, we’re gonna come down the home stretch here in a second, and we’re gonna make sure Bobby tells us where they can– everyone can find the Q2, really all of the U.S.

[00:44:42] Scott W. Luton: Bank Freight Payment Indexes. And, uh, we’re gonna make sure c- we get Karin’s Pat and Achi takeaway, and we’ll make sure folks know how to learn more about what all the cool things that Jason and the SC, uh, Supply Chain Management Program at Michigan State University are doing. But first, crystal ball time, folks.

[00:44:58] Scott W. Luton: And, and Bobby, you know, everyone that’s been on this show before knows you can’t comment on any predictions, but Jason and Karin can. And I’ll take two out of three. It’s not bad. Um, all right, so Jason, when you think of the freight market in the months ahead, give us some, some bold prognostications

[00:45:15] Jason Miller: Yeah. So I mean, I’m expecting capacity is certainly gonna remain tighter than it was last year as we move through the rest of the year. I do think that, you know, barring something shocking happening to diesel prices that would cause a $6.50 or $7 a gallon figure, spot rates on an all-in basis hit their peak, um, for now in late June, early July, right before the 4th.

[00:45:42] Jason Miller: We’re gonna go through our sort of seasonal ebb and flow. Um, we’ll see where things are at by November or December, um, to really get a sense of where market tightness is at. But I do think, especially for the brokers out there, the worst of the capacity tightness that we saw from mid-May through June, we are past that.

[00:46:02] Jason Miller: and so as we move into the next couple months, it’s really gonna be a question of seeing if we’ve got more legs on the manufacturing side, um, in terms of further demand growth and whatnot and– or not. One of the challenges is, has been mentioned by our– by, you know, some of the folks watching, there’s so much uncertainty.

[00:46:21] Jason Miller: You know, we’ve had a huge indirect stimulus that businesses have received by the over $100 billion the federal government has had to pay back in tariffs that the Supreme Court ruled illegal. And so we’re trying to even understand what has been the effect of that money coming back and these companies, um, investing it and spending it in different ways.

[00:46:40] Jason Miller: And so right now I think that’s gonna be the key thing is uncertainty. We’ve got uncertainty about where the AI space is going, but we also have uncertainty about where energy prices are going. and so I think we’re all gonna be, you know, qui- refreshing our browsers every few hours to see if something else has developed geopolitically because that’s, that’s the world we live in right now at the moment

[00:47:02] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. Very grounded and practical, uh, set of observations there, Jason. Thank you for that. All right, Karin, as you mentioned, you’re much more bullish on AI in, in, in the months to come, years to come maybe. But what do you think the freight market, any bold prediction you wanna share, Karin?

[00:47:20] Karin Bursa: Yeah. So I, so I am bullish on AI, but my, uh, you know, my thing that I think we have to watch is if demand comes back in these other sectors. If we start seeing rising demand, um, i- in other sectors, especially as we head into the holiday period, we could really have a capacity issue that could further drive cost up.

[00:47:41] Karin Bursa: So I think if I’m a chief supply chain officer and I’m looking at these numbers right now, the risk reward is should I be locking in capacity now, or do I wait and look at things on the spot rate? So, um, Jason mentioned that our spot rates peaked before July 4th. Um, you know, a- and that’s, that’s part of the, you know, the magic, if you will, that, that all shippers run, is what do they wanna lock in, and what are they looking, um, to, to pick up in the spot market?

[00:48:11] Karin Bursa: So we’re back to uncertainty. Do I, do I leverage that uncertainty to stay flexible over time, or do I go ahead and lock in now?

[00:48:19] Scott W. Luton: Hmm. Billion-dollar question out there. Uh, and folks, I was just gonna, you know, you heard Karin and Jason both reference uncertainty in so many different ways. That’s, that probably has gotta be the word of the year if it wasn’t the word of the le- year last year. But I would argue in this era of high, high uncertainty, we’ve gotta put our hands and our eyeballs and our ears on data-driven proven insights from trusted, uh, deliverers of that.

[00:48:47] Scott W. Luton: And I would argue Jason, Bobby, Karin are all, uh, trusted sources of information that will help guide your way in this era of uncertainty. 

[00:48:55] Scott W. Luton: So let’s do this. We’ve gotten a snapshot of the path ahead, and now I wanna make sure folks know how to find at least one trusted source of information. Bobby, what’s the easiest way for folks to find the Freight Payment Index put out by our friends at U.S.

[00:49:11] Scott W. Luton: Bank?

[00:49:11] Bobby Holland: As you see on the, the picture, freight.usbank.com. And as you mentioned earlier, there’s a rates edition available at the same link, so

[00:49:23] Scott W. Luton: Outstanding. Folks, go check that out. Jason, you and I, one of the past conversations we had is I think you and I sat down with some of the incredibly bright students that were supply chain management majors at Michigan State University. Y’all are doing incredible things. I really enjoyed that conversation. We gotta do that again, by the way.

[00:49:42] Scott W. Luton: Um, but Jason, how can folks learn more about the cool things y’all are doing at Michigan State?

[00:49:47] Jason Miller: Yeah. So certainly best way to connect with me is just through LinkedIn. Um, in terms of what’s going on at Michigan State, I’d say visit our department webpage. I am no longer the department head anymore, so I am back to being, as we call, regular faculty and just doing my research and my teaching. So I teach undergrad now for the first time in about four years, um, this spring.

[00:50:11] Jason Miller: So that’ll be a, be a nice welcome change

[00:50:15] Scott W. Luton: That is outstanding, Jason. And folks, we’re gonna make it really easy. dropped a link right there. You can learn more about the SCM program at Michigan State University. And we’ve dropped, uh, Jason’s LinkedIn profile and I would highly encourage y’all to go follow Jason Miller on LinkedIn.

[00:50:34] Scott W. Luton: All right, we gave Bobby and Jason some tough questions here today, but you’ve got perhaps arguably the toughest one because you’ve got to figure out your favorite takeaway from all the goodness that, uh, the conversation has delivered here. So what say you?

[00:50:51] Karin Bursa: Yeah, I guess my biggest takeaway is don’t confuse soft freight demand with abundant capacity. Um, you know, in the past we could, we could look at it that way, but Q2 tells us that’s no longer the same thing. So as costs are continuing to rise, capacity is tightening, and the demand in all sectors really hasn’t recovered yet.

[00:51:12] Karin Bursa: We’re certainly seeing the, the pickup in demand in, in a couple of sectors that we mentioned, but we’re not seeing it evenly across sectors. So for supply chain leaders, that’s a signal to stay close to the data. So be sure you’re checking with the US Bank Freight Index every quarter. You’re looking at the rates that they, um, are also publishing now, and rely on those facts, not just feelings, right?

[00:51:37] Karin Bursa: And as always, it is a great time to be in supply chain. So I’m, I’m encouraged to know that Jason’s helping to shape our future leaders, because I, I think it’s a, you know, it’s a great time to be in supply chain now, but even well into the future

[00:51:51] Scott W. Luton: I’m with you. I am with you. Uh, and I appreciate the work all three of you are doing, uh, to shape industry, shape those that are, uh, making it happen in global supply chain each and every day. And as Karin said, one of the things she mentioned, folks, um, uh, be real close to the data or not do so at your own peril.

[00:52:11] Scott W. Luton: And that’s one of my favorite things about this very practical, uh, report that’s dropped each quarter by Bobby and friends, U.S. Bank Freight Payment Index. Go check it out. And there’s many others. And, and hey, we welcome yours. Tell us your go-to resources for, uh, similar perspectives. Let us hear from you.

[00:52:28] Scott W. Luton: Um, okay. Bobby Holland with U.S. Bank, I tell you what, this was a terrific, well-rounded conversation. You always– I think you’re like an executive producer here, Bobby, by now. Is that… W- can you add that to your title?

[00:52:43] Bobby Holland: No. 

[00:52:46] Scott W. Luton: Oh, that breaks

[00:52:47] Bobby Holland: Too much pressure. 

[00:52:48] Scott W. Luton: Oh. 

[00:52:48] Bobby Holland: Too much pressure

[00:52:49] Scott W. Luton: Well, regardless, uh, well done again today. Appreciate the, the great, uh, actionable insights y’all, you and the team crank out, um, each and every quarter. And of course, the DAT edition, which only adds more value. So thanks for being here, Bobby.

[00:53:03] Bobby Holland: You all as well

[00:53:04] Scott W. Luton: Uh, Jason, Dr. Jason Miller, great to have you back.

[00:53:06] Scott W. Luton: Uh, again, really appreciate all that you do in the industry for informing all of us, your students, and those that follow you across social and of course, through programs like this. Thanks so much for being here, and you are the Eli Broad Endowed Professor of Supply Chain Management at Michigan State University.

[00:53:21] Scott W. Luton: Thanks, Jason.

[00:53:22] Jason Miller: Hey, thanks for having me

[00:53:24] Scott W. Luton: Karin Bursa, that’s two for two this week, I think. Yesterday was a great show. This was always, uh, one of my favorite shows. and I really enjoyed your perspective as well, my friend

[00:53:33] Karin Bursa: Yeah, great to be here with you and Jason, and as always, Bobby Holland

[00:53:38] Scott W. Luton: Facts, not feelings, folks. Facts, not feelings. Gotta lean into that. Um, folks, and hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I have, but you know your homework. You gotta take one thing. Jason and Bobby and Karin delivered a cornucopia, don’t ask me to spell that, of insights here today. Take one thing, share it with your team, do something with it.

[00:53:58] Scott W. Luton: Deeds, not words. That’s how we’re gonna navigate through these ever-challenging times. And with all that said, Scott Luton on behalf of the Supply Chain Now team challenging you to do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. And we’ll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

[00:54:12] Bobby Holland: Thank you​.