Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Karin Bursa right here with you on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s live stream. Corinne, how are we doing today?

Karin Bursa (00:24):

I’m doing fantastic. Scott, it is a great day to be in supply chain.

Scott Luton (00:29):

It is indeed a great day. A great challenging day, but still good times and good news abound if we go looking for it. And I’ll tell you, all these problems old and new are driving lots and lots of intriguing innovation. We’ll get into some of that here today. But folks, today is the buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern Time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business. News that matters is what we like to call it. And all month long in August, the buzz has been powered by our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics, your global partner for integrated warehouse automation. To learn more, visit Toyota-automated-logistics.com. All right, so Corinne, indeed, a great time to be in global supply chain. Today, we got lots of stuff to get into. We’re going to be touching on human versus machine and major league baseball.

(01:18):

Yeah, throwing a little curve ball for folks out there. While the world continues to make big investments in the e-commerce arms race, the timber industry is changing dramatically. We’ll share why and how will potential new tariffs impact one of the key positive cogs in the economy? Stay tuned, we’ll cover all that and more. And Corinne, I’m really excited about today’s special guest, Gorev Singh Chaudhary joins us and he is founder and editor at Silicon and Steel. He’s also supply chain pro, especially in automotive industry. And you’re going to love Gorev’s perspective here today. But Corinne, I covered a lot of ground. We got so much to get into here today. What are you looking forward to today on the buzz?

Karin Bursa (01:57):

Yeah, lots of topics there that are all surprisingly connected through supply chain opportunities and challenges. So can’t wait to jump in and dive a little bit deeper into those topics.

Scott Luton (02:09):

I’m with you, and it is. That global supply chain’s kind of a big pie that binds in so many different ways. So we got a lot to get into today. Hey, really quick, I want to say thank you, Trisha. It says happy buzz day to everybody. Let us know where you’re tuned in from. And you know what? Our friend is breaking the rules. Alan, it’s great to see you, but where are you in the world today, my friend? I think last time me and Corinne got together, we were celebrating a great meal we had with Alan.

Karin Bursa (02:35):

Indeed. Formerly

Scott Luton (02:36):

Hails from the Ottawa area, I think. Corinne, is that right?

Karin Bursa (02:38):

That’s where he calls home currently, I believe. But it was a good evening conversation. We covered a lot of topics that night too.

Scott Luton (02:46):

We did. Alan Jacques, the pride of Ottawa. All right, Trisha has also dropped the link to Toyota Automated Logistics. Folks, go check that out. All right, so Corinne, we got three things I want to get into here today on the buzz. Before we are joined by Gorev, we’re going to start with the most recent edition of With That Said. Now folks, tons and tons of information insights we dropped in this one on Sunday morning. And let me just point out, Corinne, all modesty and all humility, but it’s tough to publish regular newsletter, quality newsletter content. I just want to point out, we finally crested over 30,000 subscribers. Corinne, it’s tough to do, isn’t it?

Karin Bursa (03:25):

Yeah, congratulations.

Scott Luton (03:27):

It’s a team effort and it really is a rewarding project. But let’s see here. I could spend hours and hours talking about all the things we touched on just in this edition, but I want to talk about two things in particular. We touched on all the fuel surcharges, especially here in the States, bringing a lot more cost to the supply chain equation. And we got this snippet from one of our friends and longtime industry veterans, fellow Supply Chain now co-host, when it comes to what supply chain leaders are doing to better navigate all these higher costs. I’m going to read this for folks that might be listening. Old Tevin Taylor, Triple T says, “Supply chain leaders are treating surcharges as structural and sustained, not temporary, shifting focus to total landed cost, dual sourcing, and diversified logistics over pure lowest unit pricing. They’re backing that with tighter invoice audits, multi-carrier routing, mode optimization, and more flexible contracts with surcharge caps so they can adopt or adapt quickly.” Good stuff there from Triple T.

(04:28):

Secondly, we included Corinne, again, amongst many other things, what I thought was a great read from our friend, Dr. Mudasir Ahmed on 10 Things AI Hasn’t Fixed in Procurement in 2026. Now I’m going to pull one out and folks, you’re going to have to go read this because it’s not just a list. It really is good deep diving stuff. So number five is data blindness disguised as supplier problems. Mudasir says, “We though our supplier issues were performance related, turned out to be more of a ERP communication gap. Months of blaming a vendor for late updates and missed timelines before discovering the real problem was internal.” Folks, raise your hand if this sounds familiar.

Karin Bursa (05:12):

It should sound familiar to a lot of us.

Scott Luton (05:14):

That’s right.

Karin Bursa (05:15):

That opportunity to really access the data in your organization much less with your trading partners continues to be a challenge for most businesses.

Scott Luton (05:24):

So true. And it’s just reason number five million, 267,231. We got to challenge almost every assumption. But Corinne, there’s a lot of stuff. And with that said, what stood out to you?

Karin Bursa (05:37):

I really enjoyed the lead story on tariff inflation, et cetera. One, because we’re hearing about tariffs and the volatility of potential tariffs, right? So mostly between the US and Canada, but a 50% tariff on a variety of goods now in both directions or with Canada announcing retaliatory tariffs as well. So it’ll be interesting to see where this lands. And of course it’ll have an impact on all those same things that Tevin mentioned on sourcing, on lanes of distribution, potentially on long-term production capacity and even customer acquisition.

Scott Luton (06:17):

Yeah. Well said, Corinne and Tevin, by the way. And I enjoy that lead article too and how I think we referenced the dependencies when they are disrupted because some of these relationships have been in place for so long and we assume we’ll be stable, but I tell you, nothing can be assumed these days.

Karin Bursa (06:35):

And with a trading partner that is so close, our supply chains are very intertwined between the United States and Canada.

Scott Luton (06:42):

That’s right. And they don’t get unwound without lots of costs and lots of headaches for sure. And time. So we’ll see. And time. Th’s right. We’ll see how that plays out. But folks, go check out with that said, let us know your take. One of my favorite things is the emails, the texts, and the comments we get from folks saying, “Hey, that’s good. By the way, you got this wrong. I love all the feedback. It’s a blessing, so y’all keep it coming.”

Karin Bursa (07:05):

And you should know, we read those. We look forward to that feedback and those comments and feel free to push back or push us to dive deeper onto a topic.

Scott Luton (07:16):

That’s right. You may disagree. We welcome all of it, so good stuff. All right, so Trisha has dropped a link too. With that said, thank you, Trisha. We try to make it easy for folks one click away. Alan answered, “Ottawa today, but Belgium next week.” Oh, Alan, jealous, man. And Tsquared’s with us here today. Good buzz day all. Bring on the good, good nourishment, the pride of Baltimore and he holds down to Fort Force on YouTube. Great to see you. All right, so Corinne, that was just number one. Gorev joins us. Number two is we published the latest in our ongoing blog series called Executive Exchange where we dive into conversations with practical takeaways from CEOs and CSCOs across industry. Now this latest edition features Matt McKinney, co-founder and CEO at Loop. This company folks has had a pretty good year. They’ve enjoyed a recent big fundraising round, but get this, they were just named number 10 on the Inc.

(08:14):

5,000 list for 2026, not 100, not 1000. Those would be good too. Number 10, of course, that list maps out what it claims to be the fastest growing companies in the US. So there’s too much to get into this blog, but I want to pull one thing out, Corinne, get you to get your thoughts too. And we’ve talked about this before on previous shows too, this key theme, because McKinney pointed out a critical distinction between general purpose AI and in this case, logistics specific intelligence saying, “A general purpose model can read a document, but it doesn’t know what a bill of lading is, why a pickup date has to proceed a delivery date, or that those two fee names are the same charge.” Technology must understand the terminology, business rules, relationships, and workflows of supply chain, which is essential to establishing a unified data foundation ready to scale.

(09:04):

So Corinne, I enjoyed this read in my conversation with Matt. What did you garner from it?

Karin Bursa (09:09):

Yeah, I found myself nodding my head in agreement paragraph by paragraph, but data becomes insights only when it has context. And so I agree 100% that having supply chain context, understanding what those transactions are, what comes next, a late shipment is simply a data point, but understanding which customers it’s going to impact, what production schedules may be impacted, any financial commitments that might be at risk, that’s insights. And then we have to go from insights to actions. And so we can apply that same philosophy to a number of different aspects of our supply chain. So I thought it was a really well done article, a blog piece that is easily applied to lots of different business processes in the supply chain.

Scott Luton (09:55):

That’s high praise from one Corinne Bursa folks. So go check out, it’s part of the resource hub. I’m real proud of this series we’ve been investing in since really the beginning of the year, and we got some good stuff coming. So go check out executiveexchange@supplychainnow.com. Okay, so let me know, and Trisha, thank you for dropping the link, making it really easy for folks to go check that piece out. Amanda and Trisha, let me know who this is. They say the power/value of AI is built upon your specific data. The challenges on AI across the ecosystem, i.e. Your trading partners, et cetera, is dependent on their data. However, partners will limit use or access of their high value data stuff there. And I’ll find out who you are in just a second. That’s some high value data I need right now. All right, so Corinne. Oh my goodness.

(10:44):

Hey, it’s real hot in Georgia, so we might lose our mind here. That’s John Casto. John, great to have you here, my friend. Let me know where you’re tuned in from. All right, one more thing before we have our great guest join us here today. Let’s have a little fun with some baseball. So now Corinne, most folks that are tuned in right now to the live version of the buzz or the replay know that I’m a big Atlanta Braves fan, right?

Karin Bursa (11:03):

You are, yes. And

Scott Luton (11:05):

I still gripe surprisingly a lot about Eric Gregg’s umpiring travesty, I’m going to call it, in game five of the 1997 NLCS. That was the Braves versus the upstart Marlins. He made all sorts of really bad inaccurate calls at the plate, which was a big factor in the Marlins’ win over my Braves. In fact, it was a rookie, Levon Hernandez, that defeated a perennial ace and Cy Young Greg Maddox in that game. To be fair, the game was different back then, right? That was part of the human touch. It was just part of the game much more so. But still, now fast-forward some 30 years, check this out. You may know that Major League Baseball has implemented technology this year that allows players to challenge umpiring strike and ball calls at the plate. It’s not perfect by any means, but I think it’s a step forward in eliminating the gross human error that is arguably, like I was talking about, part of the game.

(11:57):

Now this fan-sided article, it’s kind of mean, but hey, they’re professionals. All professionals get evaluated, right? This fan-sided article points out one longtime umpire, Hunter Wendelstadt, who I’ve watched umpire and call a bunch of Braves games, has missed in the last couple weeks in a single game, he missed 20 calls, 20 calls. But the MLB review technology called ABS enabled nine of those bad calls to be overturned. Hey, nine is better than none. Now, I’m a big supply chain nerd, so all this made my brain think about how we’re using technology more and more to empower human superpowers, but also correct all the errors that we make as humans, and certainly myself included. Corinne, react to that. And do you find supply chain lessons in football and baseball and the like too, or just me?

Karin Bursa (12:43):

I do. And I actually really liked when this technology got introduced. First of all, it forced Major League Baseball to identify a consistent strike zone. There’s no more ambiguity in that. So that consistency, and we’ve got to apply that to our businesses as well when we think about how do we automate decision making, et cetera, we have to have a consistent structure of what good looks like, what the goals are, et cetera. So I think it’s important to recognize that this particular umpire, he was operating at 92.48% accuracy, 92.48% accuracy. A lot of us might say, that’s pretty impressive, but he was number 81 out of 91. That’s right. So he is definitely at the bottom of the list. But what I took away from it is that the value of technology, of artificial intelligence in this context is one, that it’s a consistent read of the current conditions.

(13:43):

It’s objective at the moment that the decision is made, and it ensures consistency from ballpark to ballpark, not just umpire to umpire. So I’m all for it. I think it’s interesting. I love to look at the replays. I love to see the diagrams of exactly where the pitch hit as it came across the plate. So it was a lot of fun. It was a good article too. I recommend reading

Scott Luton (14:06):

It. Yeah, folks, go check it out. It’s all kind of parallels between supply chain and sports, life, you name it. And one thing, I love that you went and looked up Hunter Wendell Stat’s accuracy percentage. I love that is a Corinne

Karin Bursa (14:18):

Workshop. Facts not feelings. Yes,

Scott Luton (14:20):

Absolutely. I would just add to that 92% sound A, that’s a B+. It was a B in my time. It’s an A thes days, Igues.

Karin Bursa (14:28):

It’s an A now 92.48%. Yeah. I can’t round to 93%, but it’s still pretty impressive.

Scott Luton (14:35):

So Corinne, what my goal is, and they don’t call me and ask FinTech, but my goal is Six Sigma Performance. Five nines, 99.99. Let’s get to that level and we’ll see if we can get there. I don’t know. It’s kind of fun though when it’s 92%. But anyway, folks go check out the article. Trisha dropped it right here and give us your thoughts on how this ties into what we’re trying to do in global supply chain. All right, so Corinne, I’m excited about today’s guest here on the Buzz, powered by Toyota Automated Logistics. He is a staff global supply manager at Lucid Motors, but he’s also got about nine years of supply chain experience that spans sourcing, logistics, planning, one of my favorite topics, and analytics with stints at Tesla, Amazon, Kearney, Noon, and Kellogg’s across North America, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and West Africa.

(15:25):

Our guest is also founder and editor of Silicon and Steel, which is a great newsletter and platform covering the physical supply chains behind AI infrastructure, EVs, robotics, and semiconductors. Folks, add it to your list.You’re going to like it. He also runs a Founder’s Talk podcast, which focuses on supply chain founders building in this space. And out of one of his many credentials, our guest was named to the ISM 30 Under 30 Rising Supply Chain Stars list in 2025. So I want to welcome in Gorev Singh Chaudhary, founder and editor with Silicon and Steel. Hey, hey, Gorev, how you

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (16:01):

Doing? I’m doing great. Happy to be here. I love the show for many, many years. I’ve been watching you on this show and love to be here and thanks for all the description.

Scott Luton (16:11):

Well, I’m going to have to pick up the phone and call my mom. You just made our day, Gore. And Corinne, as we were sharing backstage a bit, Gorev added over time some really sharp comments on some newsletters and stuff. And then I had to do my homework around who Gorev was, and then I came across Silicon and Steel and all of the cool things he’s up to. We had to get him on the bus, but it’s great to have him here today, Corinne, huh?

Karin Bursa (16:35):

Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. He’s got a really unique perspective. I think that we can all go a little deeper, learn a little more about how things move around the world.

Scott Luton (16:44):

That’s right. Well said. You’re really poetic today, Corinne. All right, so Gorev, let’s start with a fun warmup question.You watch a show where I like to start, little humanity on the front end. And I got to tell you, as I’ve been sharing on social here lately, me and Amanda got back from an incredible trip to Rome and Florence, Italy, and I touched on a bit on my recent edition of Good News. And this right here is a –

Karin Bursa (17:08):

Magnificent?

Scott Luton (17:09):

Yes, thank you

Karin Bursa (17:09):

Very

Scott Luton (17:09):

Much. Okay, say it. The incredible, extraordinary cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore took about 140 years to build this incredible church and structure and cathedral. Well, well worth it, might I humbly share. And the trip in general was so rewarding and it really got my brain going on a variety of levels, certainly a little supply chain stuff. So I got to ask you that. On the heels of this trip for us, Gore, for you, what’s one of your recent travels that really invigorated your mind in a similar fashion?

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (17:41):

Yeah, I went to Rome, same place, Italy, this January, and I haven’t stopped thinking about that place, mostly because it’s so ancient and a lot of rooms are still existing. There are all the roads that they built 2000s years ago. There’s a shopping mall and some of the places looks even better than what today’s shopping mall looks like. The whole commerce and the logistics were working along through all the infrastructure that they built. I really loved it. So everyone heard about all roads lead to Rome, and I didn’t know that it’s little. There’s a place called Golden Milestone over there, and from that place they are using the place distance from that place to North Africa or Europe, North Europe, Western Europe. And that shows the kind of focus they had on supply chain, and it’s amazing.

Scott Luton (18:33):

Well said. We have similar experiences. And Tony Shirota Karin, my dear friend Tony Shero would call it. Him and Michelle McBride both said that Rome is an OG when it comes to logistics world. Gorin, what about you? A big trip for you.

Karin Bursa (18:46):

Yeah, I’m going to go in the complete opposite direction and I’m going to go to the beach and turn off all the noise and just kind of step away from all things tariff and supply chain for a little bit, but it was really needed. I think sometimes you’re just in it every day and it’s a great opportunity to just kind of turn it off and then you come back refreshed, ready to go and have a whole new perspective on the challenges. But also sometimes some creative ideas come to you as you’re walking along the beach at dusk and listening to the waves.

Scott Luton (19:21):

Corinne, that last part, the lapping of the waves at night, during the day, no matter. There’s something that just intrigues humans and it does. There’s no substitute. Good stuff. All right, so Gorv and Corinne, we got to get to work today. We got some news to get into, and then we’re going to dive into more of what Gaurov has been covering at Silicon and Steel. It’s a lot of work to do here today. And Mary Kate Love, the Mary Kate Love makes an appearance, says all roads lead to Roam, the OG Logistics Hub. So true, Mary Kate, but you’re not going to convince me. We’re going to have the water discussion later, Mary Kate. She was getting me earlier today on Slack. All right, so first up first, we’re going to kind of get closer to at least where me and Corrine call home. We’re going to be talking about how Walmart continues to make massive investments as part of the e-commerce arms race.

(20:09):

Now, Supply Chain Dive reports that this latest one, as I mentioned, it’s close to home, as a company is going to build a 1.5 million square foot automated fulfillment center up the 85 corridor in the northeast part of Georgia. It’s a town called Carneysville. I hope I got that right. Where is it? You may ask. Well, it’s a population of 700 folks. And as I mentioned, the 85 corridor, you see Atlanta down there in the left on this little visual provided by Google Maps. You go up 85 as you head to the upstate of South Carolina, and it’s in this space here, kind of northeast of Commerce, Georgia where locals are called commercials, I think. Don’t check me on that. But why is that a popular corridor for fulfillment and this distribution activity? Well, I’ll tell you why. Facilities in that corridor can reach 80%, roughly 80% of the entire US population with a standard two-day truck drive.

(21:05):

Now, as I mentioned, Kearneysville 700 people are there with this one project is supposed to create thousand jobs. It’s part of Walmart’s next generation fulfillment network, which is designed to expand same day and next day e-commerce delivery while relying heavily on automation because, hey, automated fulfillment centers and the like, it’s powering about half of the volume that goes through Walmart e-commerce right this moment. It’s going to grow. So Gorev, going back to the story here and the investment Walmart is making, what’s your initial reaction?

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (21:37):

So after reading this, I remember my days when I was in a fulfillment center where I was working with one e-commerce company in Dubai, and this topic is very close to me. When they say 1.5 million square feet of fulfillment centers, fulfillment center, it’s a huge, the scale of that fulfillment center, it’ll take many minutes to walk the full one and it creates only a thousand jobs. It tells a lot about the automation it creates. As per one of the financial statement of Walmart, it says it cut down the steps of fulfillment processes or e-commerce processes from 20 to five. So it says a lot about how fast the automation has grew in past couple of years. And also Walmart has invested a lot of money in its inventory management and robotics. So they’re going to put a lot of usage of all these tech investment in these things.

(22:32):

And I really see that this is a trade-off like in anything in supply chain, there’s a trade-off. There are fewer jobs, but whatever is remaining are different jobs. Those are not sorting and the walking jobs. Those are keeping machines running.

Scott Luton (22:48):

Stuff there, Gorvin, I want to go back to your point, 12 to five processes. So Corinne, when we’re taking seven steps out of the workflow, gaining some big time efficiency, react to this Walmart story.

Karin Bursa (23:01):

Yeah. I mean, first of all, so they’re designing their network. They’re intentionally choosing where to put their new distribution center. And the strategic message here is that speed to the customer needs to be designed into the network. So that access to customer, customer service and fulfillment is very critical. It’s not something you can easily add later through expensive transportation. And certainly Walmart doesn’t want to add expensive transportation. They want a nice, efficient way to satisfy the consumer and to get the products to them. I also think it shows that they’re going to go head-to-head with Amazon and continue to do that in the future. So it’s really important to be efficient inside the four walls, but also in moving goods in and out of the distribution center.

Scott Luton (23:53):

Agree, Corinne. And going to your competition note, I would argue that’s a good thing for everybody, right? Amazon and Walmart competing like that. I mean, I think that competition’s good for the market, gives us options, and it helps fuel some innovations that we enjoy as consumers. All right, so folks, Trisha, as always, is drop a link to each of these stories. Don’t take our word for it. Go check it out and give us your take. Story number two. Now, this is going to be an interesting one because I got to tell you, this wasn’t, even though we got lots and lots of ponds where I grew up and of course where we live now, we haven’t covered the timber industry a ton on supply chain now, probably years since we talked about on the buzz, but check out this piece from the Wall Street Journal.

(24:30):

It’s very deep and rich. So heads up, you got to go check this out because it’s really tough to summarize in a couple of minutes. But the gist of it, Corinne and Gorb, the Southern US timber industry, especially here in Georgia, is facing really a economic crisis. Pulp and paper mill closures have sharply reduced demand for pulpwood, wood chips, and sawmill byproducts. Leading US container board capacity, it fell by roughly 10% last year alone. You don’t need it, so you’re getting rid of facilities. Now, some of the top contributors to this big decline, you may ask, that’s what I was asking, and this is just a short list, but more efficient e-commerce packaging, which is a really good thing, right? We don’t get the big box with just a couple items in it from some of the shippers. Greater use of recycled cardboard, that’s also a good thing.

(25:16):

Cheaper imported pulp. I think Brazil is one of the markets that it called out in this article and all that, just name a few. And collectively, it’s pushed southern pulpwood prices to their lowest levels in nearly 40 years, 40 years. The consequences are particularly severe for family timber operations. Some landowners get this, are now paying to have pulpwood removed, not selling it, they’re having to pay just to get it out of their facility while others are questioning whether it makes economic sense to replant forest, which can take 25, 30 years to mature. Now, timber owners are experimenting with alternatives while companies such as Weyerhaeuser are investing in new uses for excess pulpwood. I got to tell you, this ongoing collapse that I’ve been learning through stories like this one can permanently reshape both the southern rural economy and landscape that foresty has helped define for nearly a century.

(26:07):

There’s a lot of things going on here, but Gorev, react. What’d you read in this article from the Wall Street Journal?

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (26:13):

First of all, I’ll be very honest. Timber is not my home turf, but when I was digging into the news, it looks very familiar to the supply chain problem and supply and demand kind of problems. So in my opinion, it’s a demand collapse, complete demand collapse and the tariff on top of that. China put tariff on US pulp, US exports fell off a clip, and even domestic buyers are not buying that much. So as you said, that almost 10% reduction in the demand and it’s really, really bad for the timber growers. It’s almost 8.3 million tonnage of goods that are produced in that area. It’s very devastating for them. And it’s very hard for in terms of logistics. If they cut all the timber and put in the vehicle and ship it to three states away, the whole logistic cost, we eat up their profit and everything.

(27:04):

So it doesn’t make any sense for them to grow timber anymore. So this is very bad for the timber economy. I hope something catch up or the trade gets better and pulp demand goes up and something gets better over there.

Scott Luton (27:17):

Gore, a lot of good stuff there. Even though this isn’t your forte, I enjoyed your analysis there. Corinne, I bet my hunch, especially as more companies try to figure out where these products can be used, I’m curious what Breakthrough two will do here, but Corinne, react to this great story on the timber industry.

Karin Bursa (27:33):

I think it’s a great illustration of significant change in demand. So it has happened over time when we think of paper and mill production. We’ve seen different things in the marketplace that have increased demand for corrugated at different points in time, especially with direct to consumer, speaking of Amazon or Walmart or others shipping to your home. But now we’ve seen replacement packaging that’s coming into play so that you don’t have a garage full of cardboard boxes anymore, which is those are all good things that we need to keep in mind. But also something that Gurav said that I think is important, timber in particular illustrates a problem of really mismatched clocks. It takes trees decades to grow and mature and be harvested. While demand, trade policy, interest rates, mill operations, those things can change in months. And so looking at those different timelines, looking at strategic demand and supply is just another thing that we need to look at as they consider the use of the pulp for other products as well.

(28:43):

So resilience really requires looking at the problem from a lot of different directions.

Scott Luton (28:48):

Yes. Corinne, you and Garav, good stuff. And I would just add, I think this is kind of one of the points you were making, 25 to 30 years is what a lot of these farms take to mature. In recent generations, past generations, there were a lot more stability in 25 to 30 years. They could bank on and know that they’re going to get a return on investment. These days, the question of whether the plant or not the plant, so much can change in 25 months, much less 25 years. It’d be interesting to see what they do. And just one other thing, it wasn’t too long ago, five years ago, that me and Greg White were on the bus and we’re taking pictures of all these boxes during the holidays. We’re like, something’s got to be done. As industry has to find a way of doing, something is being done and it’s the butterfly effect, which can be positive, but also very negative.

(29:34):

So we’ll see how this plays out. T-Squared says, “Hey, cardboard reuse. Can you smell the reverse logistics cooking there? Sounds like the rock.” T-Squared is channeling. And then going back to the previous story on the e-commerce battles, T-Squared says, “Amazon versus Walmart competing?” That’s the retail version of Wild Eat Coyote versus the Roadrunner. The difference is you can’t tell who’s who given the degrees of innovation and Chase and Gunning both have. That’s right. T-squared.That’s right. All right, so let’s do this. We got one more story and then Gaurav, we’ve got a lot of questions for you based on a lot of your areas of specialties, and we’re going to jump into all that as much as we can. Forget about y’all to react to this story though. First time Politico has been on the buzz. I’m not sure that’s a good thing or bad thing, but let’s mention tariffs.

(30:20):

Corinne had kind of broken the seal earlier, but I think both of y’all did. Latest battle between US and Canada in their efforts to finalize a trade deal. We’ll see how all that plays out. We’re going to set that aside for a moment. But Politico’s reporting on another potential and consequential trade policy shift. It says the Trump administration is considering sweeping new semiconductor tariffs that could extend well beyond chips to products containing them, including, as you might guess, laptops, gaming consoles, Ben’s over there, Bryan in his beer, Coke, Diet Coke.

(30:55):

And servers of course, all those servers powering America’s rapidly expanding data centers, all that. Now, some powerful members of the administration reportedly favor tying tariff-free chip imports to companies’ commitments to manufacture semiconductors in the US. And that administration may eliminate existing exemptions for data centers and other uses. Tech companies, of course, warned that the policy could raise the cost and constrain the supply of AI infrastructure at precisely the moment the US is investing heavily in data centers, particularly because domestic production cannot yet supply anywhere near the volume of advanced chips that the industry needs. I am a bit speechless at all of this. It’s just one more thing of millions to consider here. It seems like this potentially could be a lot of headaches on a variety of levels, but Rav, I’d love for you to weigh in on these potential new tariffs.

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (31:47):

Yeah, sure. And I’ll start with this. This is not the first time administration is putting tariff on chips or advanced electronics. So back in January, administration put almost 25% of tariff on advanced chips, but there was six areas that were exempted. Data centers were exempted, startups, R&D. So practically almost 99% of usage of advanced chips were exempt in the US. And now they’re trying to deliberately putting tariff on the whole unit. So silicon and the chip and then top of it, the AI rack, everything will put on tariff. So not only silicon chip, but the whole chimber will be a tariff on that or text on that. And here it gets very interesting because the underlying information and the proposed mechanism says the duty free imports quota will be based on how much chips they are manufacturing in US and at the US soil or US manufacturing sites.

(32:51):

And these big firms like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, none of them makes chips, manufacture chips over there. They just import everything. So under the new formula, these parties will not get reward because they are not owning any fabs. The biggest qualifier, all the hyperscalers will not get any sort of concession. And the second thing is DSMC who has committed almost $265 billion of worth of foreign diet investment. It’s one of the biggest ones

Karin Bursa (33:18):

In

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (33:18):

US history. They will get only 30% of exemption based on the formula, which is again a bigger shock. I’m pretty sure there will be some sort of conversation and negotiation with the industry leaders and it will be cut down or there will be some time window in which the whole importers can make things. And the funny part is SK Hynix, which is the biggest HBM high bandwidth memory chips manufacturers, they broke the ground $4 billion plus advanced packaging plant in Indiana this month. And the next day administration put these kind of tariffs. So even though they have started breaking ground, they will not be exempted from the tariffs. So this is very contradicting in terms of the investment they are putting and the tariffs they are getting. So until 2028 and 29, all the DRAM chips, all the memory chips will still be Korea made because SK Hynix and Samsung roughly counts almost 80% of the total memory chips.

(34:18):

So this will be a long fight, I’m pretty sure. So tariff on finished electronics would stack up on the top of the memory storage that’s already pushing price up. So overall price up will be like you will see more price up in coming weeks. That’s my take on this. Appreciate

Scott Luton (34:35):

That. Lots of far reach and impacts. Corinne, Gustav and Garav, your thoughts?

Karin Bursa (34:40):

Yeah, I think it’s important that we all remember that the AI economy, which is kind of what we’re calling this boom that we’re in right now, it may feel like it’s all digital, but it is constrained by remarkably physical items. So chips are just one of those things. As we look at, we’ve talked many times about data center boom and the building and the construction and capacity and the need for power and alternative power, cooling systems, et cetera, that brings it all together and includes geopolitical issues. So tariffs are just another geopolitical issue that’s in that mix as well. So as Ghurav said, it’s going to be a number of years before US-based capacity is online and able to serve a local manufacturer or a US-based manufacturer. So I think that how trade is managed between now and then is going to be critically important because I don’t think anybody wants to slow down a leadership position in building an AI economy at this point in time.

(35:53):

It’s a race and it’s a land grab, if you will, or a digital grab, but there’s so much physical infrastructure that needs to be available to support that and to do it very quickly.

Scott Luton (36:05):

You mentioned leadership, and again, we’re always apolitical here, but I’m so intrigued, scared, interested, I’m not sure what the right word is, but as the next round of national elections take place in a couple years to see what next administration comes in and how little or how big these policy shifts may be. And of course the massive repercussions across industry, we’ll see so many moving parts. But Gaurv and Corinne, I enjoyed y’all’s perspective there and we’re going to keep our finger on the pulse, of course. Now we got a lot more questions for Gaurv here, but first I want to share this note from our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics. They’re driving hard, folks, to be your global partner for integrated warehouse automation. Now, did you know the company combines the talents of Bastion Solutions, Vandalande’s warehousing business and ViaStore all under one brand as an integrated automation hub aiming to deliver scalable systems, intelligent software and life cycle services.

(37:03):

And it brings together latest supply chain technologies into one connected solution. Toyota Automated Logistics delivers a seamless journey from system design to delivery, empowering customers with a lasting competitive advantage. Learn more at toyota-automated-logistics.com. All right, let’s get into the C block here with Gaurv and Corinne. I’ve got a lot of questions for you. I want to start with this new nuclear, I’m not sure if it’s new anymore, but this current nuclear age we’re moving into, have been moving into, right? In fact, as one of the many examples here, I’m not sure if this is on y’all’s radar, this story, which Utility Dive and many other outlets reported just last week that US Army announced plans to build nine nuclear microreactors at bases in the US aiming to provide resilient power for critical infrastructure, especially and mainly during contingencies. Now, Gaurav, you wrote what I thought was an intriguing article a couple weeks ago and included this infomercial, right?

(38:01):

Or this not infomercial, infographic.

Karin Bursa (38:02):

Infographic?

Scott Luton (38:04):

Come on. Yeah, infographic. So check this out folks. This what was in the piece in silicon still. We’re going to drop the link to it right there in the chat. Garav shared that, hey, more than 25% of our country’s current enriched uranium comes to Russia despite a congressional ban from a few years ago. Why? Well, it goes to the point that Corinne mentioned a second ago, because there’s no replacement for that critical supply yet. So the Pentagon has opportunities for exceptions, I think into 2028 or something. I know Garv, you got it, but share a couple of key points to this nuclear story, Gaurav.

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (38:39):

You just mentioned that US is commissioning five companies or five reactors, small size reactors, but here’s the very important part. There are 94 reactors that are running in US. None of them is using the same fuel that will be required to the small reactor because small reactors need different type of fuel. It’s called H-A-L-E-U, high acid low enrichment uranium. So let me just give you some context. So

Karin Bursa (39:08):

Uranium

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (39:09):

We mine is weak. It’s about 0.7% of its useful stuff actually split and makes energy. So you have to concentrate the uranium in it. And this process is called enrichment. So there are different types of enrichment. So one is low enrichment unit, which is a regular fuel that is being used in 94 reactors in US across US. It’s very regularly using most of the reactors around the world. But the second one, which is highly enriched, five to 20% enriched, you can call it as a premium fuel in your petrol station. And that is being manufactured and sold by only one company in the world that’s in Russia. And what the infographics you were showing, it was only for the regular fuel. It was the only regular fuel that even US is not manufacturing all of them. Almost 43% of uranium enrichment is done by all over the world, is done by Russia.

(40:06):

And if I combine China and Russia, it’s almost 60%. So even the regular fuel is being dominated by not that friendly countries. And now coming to the most important part, the premium fuel, nuclear fuel, it’s not even made by us, so made by US. So that’s very, very interesting. And there is a company from Bill Gates, even that company couldn’t get this premium fuel and they had to pivot the whole company from nuclear energy to renewable energy. They were supposed to start from 2028, then it extended to 2030, 2032, and then eventually they stopped doing that. So it’s very fascinating. One of the founder stated this thing that fuel is the bottleneck to nuclear. Nuclear is the bottleneck to electricity and electricity is the bottleneck to AI. So that’s how I can summarize this whole thing.

Scott Luton (40:59):

All right, so brilliant analysis, Gaurav. And folks, go check out the full read because none of us can get to everything. There’s so many moving pieces. We have got Tricia that dropped the link right here, so go check it out. Now Corinne, weigh in please.

Karin Bursa (41:15):

I don’t like the risk associated with being single sourced on that fuel, much less who the trading partner is and how volatile that relationship can be. But my mind also went to energy security and supply chain security. So if nuclear is expected to support AI-driven electricity demand, which we all believe is going to increase dramatically in the next five to 10 years, our resilience plans have to extend across that entire fuel cycle, so not just the reactor construction. And so more layers of complexity to be evaluated in this, if we’re calling it our new nuclear age, we certainly view, Americans view nuclear energy differently today than we did 30 years ago. And so I think it has come a long way in that period of time, but there’s still significant risks associated with it. It is very efficient. There are a number of reasons why it makes sense.

(42:16):

There are a number of risks that have to be mitigated as well.

Scott Luton (42:20):

Yes. Not to open a can of worms, but to your perspectives that are changing, it may be the two ships of the night between the nuclear industry and data center industry, right? In fact, Politico was reporting last week, well, twice I want to show that the data center industry may be hitting its oh darn moment in terms of controlling its image. But nevertheless, again, not to open that can of worms. All right, we got to keep going. Grav, I want to get to your thoughts on the automotive industry. But first, big show Bob Bova, before I move forward, had some comments going back to the tariff discussions we were having. And great to see. He’s also in California, Gurav. And Bob says, “The administration’s use of tariffs specifically for chips and data centers is all about control and having a seat at the head of the table, both economically and technologically.

(43:08):

Without sensible guardrails and legislation, this is the knee-jerk reaction for power over the paradigm of AI infrastructure and data centers.” Good stuff. I wish we had a whole hour to discuss all of that. Good stuff, Bob. And really quick, go check out folks. All that nuclear analysis was really driven by a great piece at silicon and steel.co. Garav, is that right. Co? Okay. Thank you, Tricia. All right, so up next, I want to talk cars. Lots of cars. We love our cars. So Garav, when it comes to EV automotive where you’ve spent time with a couple of well-known, intriguing, innovative companies, what are a couple of your observations that you think more supply chain pros would really love to know about this industry that is shaping and touching on so many parts of global business these days?

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (43:54):

So I will put this into three different categories. One is demand. Last year the tax credit ended and because of that, EV sales fell by almost 40% and big, big traditional companies, Ford and GM, they shut down their multi-year projects. GM stopped their battery manufacturing plants across different sites and Ford stopped their F-150 electric vehicle. So overall industry wrote of almost 60 to $90 billion. So I’m pretty sure most of the people don’t know about this thing. A lot of upheaval happened in the EV industry last year. Second is tariff. So 25% on imported cars and 25% on parts. And there were a lot of back and forth on the imports, sorry, on tariff because the different rulings. And that was a nightmare for a sourcing person like me and a lot of supply chain guys who are working logistics, sourcing, planning. It’s nightmare. So almost $30 billion costs were added into Delifi because of any shortage or any sort of issues.

(45:02):

There was a separate issue, separate company called Nexperia because of there’s a geopolitical issue that small chip making company stopped shipping or exporting anything outside China and that made almost $900 million write off in Honda balance sheet. It’s amazing to see from inside because I was looking after this particular section when I was working on this project in Lucid. So it’s happening across automobile. Then there’s AI. Automable why AI and EV are compared together, but AI needs same electronics, same type of electronics. They also need printed circuit boards and they also need printed circuit boards and the capacity is limited. Same for the chips, diode, transistors, MOSFERTs, all these small, small chips, the capacity is limited. If you build a plant, it’ll take multiple years to build that. And most of the subcapacities in the Southeastern countries, not in United States or North America. So it’s lot of capacity is taken by AI and because of that, they are overbidding the prices.

(46:12):

So because of that, even prices of EV are increasing, or at least cost is increasing. Sometimes EV manufacturers, they are not giving the cost increase to customers, but all these things are very hard to club together and understand what’s happening in EV from outside. So the good thing is because of AI also, the battery manufacturing plants that GM abandoned, they are coming back to line and a lot of jobs are saved because AI needs power. So LG took those plants and started manufacturing cells on that. So AI is bad also and miraculously helped to save some part of automobile. Ford started their own battery company and shipping to AI hyperscaler infrastructure. So that’s I think will be very surprising to a lot of people who are not part of EVs or automobile.

Scott Luton (47:09):

You have condensed down a lot of key takeaways in two minutes time and we know how far more complicated it is. But Corinne, one of those last points he made, maybe there is a good AI and an evil twin AI because it can be good and bad. React to what we heard there from Gurab.

Karin Bursa (47:26):

I think it just takes us back to our economics classes and supply and demand and looking at all of the industries and opportunities, chips and for the use of artificial intelligence and also where demand is going as populations change. I know several young adults that don’t own a car. They rely on public transportation or use Uber or Lyft on a regular basis. And they know how to drive, but they don’t have an intent to own a vehicle of their own in the immediate future at all. So it’s been interesting to see that transition because when I was in my youth or young 20s, to me owning a car was freedom. I could go wherever I wanted to go whenever I wanted to go there. In essence, they can as well. They just do it through Uber or Lyft or a ride share option. They just view it differently.

(48:21):

So what’s really fascinating to me though, Scott, whether you did it intentionally or not, all of these stories are kind of interwoven into the nature of global supply chains, where we’re going from a growth perspective. The fact that you’ve got long lead time associated, not just with growing trees, but with provisioning new data centers and power or nuclear energy as well. And these physical changes in supply chain cause bad behavior sometimes, geopolitical levers that can be pulled in the form of different tariffs, et cetera, or incentives from a purchasing perspective when it came to electric vehicles as well. So it’s just fascinating to see how all of these different elements come together across multiple industries.

Scott Luton (49:11):

Yeah, I’m with you. And it really is an addition of the buzz that needs to be a bonus two-hour episode that we could really do more justice to all these sectors and these topics. But we’re close to wrapping up here today, Corinne and Garav. I want to do this. I’m going to bring you back, Garav, to talk about, we had a talent question I want to pose to you, especially given your fast track career, but we’re going to have you back and talk about that. I want to make sure you have the opportunity to tell people about, I’m your number one fan in Atlanta, Garav. So tell us about, in a nutshell, Silicon and Steel. And I think I’m sharing the website up at the top of the page. I love the font, by the way. Font has a great connection to how we absorb information, and I love how you have designed your site, but nevertheless, tell us about what it is.

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (49:59):

Sure. So Silicon Steel is newsletter and podcast and morning pulse information. So it tells you at 7:00 AM in the morning that what are the different ticks or tickers or the commodities moved up or down and how it will impact your maybe automobile or AI infrastructure, maybe rare materials, how it’ll impact all those things. And that’s what I’m trying to do. And at the same time, I’m building a newsletter and podcast about physical supply chain behind AI, chips, batteries and trade. And the name is Silicon Steel because Steel built the past and Silicon is building the present and the future. And I’m trying to be part of this whole transformation. And through talking to people, through writing, I get more closer to all these things. And also talking to you and coming to these kind of podcasts, it really helped me to understand the worldview around me.

(50:58):

And last point is that I’m building something very exciting at this point of time. I talked to some of the universities, MIT and University of Michigan. I’m building a supply chain and business simulation for the university. Students split and then understand what are the mistakes they did by putting some decisions instead of reading a textbook. So these are the things that I’m trying to do in this. And so go check out siliconsteel.co.

Scott Luton (51:23):

Love it. And there’s a lot more. I mean, he did a great job in a nutshell, but there’s so much more interactive tools, deep dive analysis reads that lots of visuals and stuff. Folks go check out and you can learn more at silicon and steel.co. Corinne, I love how he wants to be an active and deliberate part of the bridge between the past and the present and future, huh?

Karin Bursa (51:46):

Yeah, I think that’s exciting. I think combining the two, the digital and industrial economies, they’re really inseparable. Sure, there may be a power balance that changes over time, but as we’ve discussed, we can’t harness all the capabilities of a digital future without a physical infrastructure to support it.

Scott Luton (52:07):

That’s right. Well said, Corinne. All right, folks, I hate to leave it there, but we kind of got to. We’re already a minute or two over. I know folks have busy Mondays out there. I want to encourage folks go check out again, siliconandsteel.co. Gaurav, where else can folks find you and track

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (52:23):

You down? So you can check out my profile and put a message, connect with me. I’m happy to answer anything or collaborate on anything. So please check out my LinkedIn and yeah, I’ll be there.

Scott Luton (52:34):

All right. Outstanding. Great to have you here. And Corinne Bursa, you got a lot of Shakespeare coursing through your veins here today, which reminds me if you haven’t seen the Hamnet yet, folks, go check it out. But Corinne, how can folks track you down?

Karin Bursa (52:46):

I’m with Gharav. LinkedIn is the best way to do that, but I’d also encourage you to come back here to Supply Chain Now and connect with me on a future show.

Scott Luton (52:53):

That’s right. We got some good ones, great ones coming up, folks. And Trisha’s making it really easy. There’s Corinne’s LinkedIn and here’s Garav’s LinkedIn. It’s right there in the chat, so you’re one click away. All right, folks, one last thing. One last, I love resources and want y’all to go check out a resource hub over at supplychainnow.com. It is blowing up with content and blogs and interviews, you name it. If you like the written version of that stuff, go check that out. Again, I mentioned silicon and steel at siliconandsteel.co. Go check that out. Big thanks to Ghirav Singh Chaudhary, founder and editor with said Silicon and Steel. Garav, great to have you here, my friend.

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (53:37):

Same here.

Scott Luton (53:38):

Keep up the great work. Great to have one and only Corinne Bursa here on the buzz once again. Corinne, thank you so much for being here.

Karin Bursa (53:45):

Yeah, it’s great to be with you.

Scott Luton (53:47):

Because it’s a?

Karin Bursa (53:48):

It’s a great time to be in supply chain.

Scott Luton (53:49):

That’s right.

Gaurav Singh Chaudhary (53:50):

Thanks for having me.

Scott Luton (53:52):

Well, blessed are the Bridgemakers like Garav is very intentionally being a part of. We need more bridge builders out there. Folks, big thanks to our friends at Toyota Automated Logistics. Of course, big thanks to Mann and Trisha behind the scenes. And most importantly, big thanks to our global audience for being here with us. Hey, y’all are our north star and why we do what we do. Keep the feedback coming. But with all that said, you got homework, folks. You got to take one thing that Gaurav or Corinne shared with you here today. Do something with it. Deeds, not words. Th’s how we’re going to keep transforming, not just the current state, but certainly the future state and leave no one behind. So with that said, on behalf of the entire Supply Chain Now team, Scott Luten challenge you, do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed.

(54:30):

And we’ll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (54:35):

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