Mel Young has worked as a social entrepreneur for most of his life, driven by his fervent belief that is it possible to end homelessness around the world. In this episode of Logistics with Purpose, Mel joins hosts Enrique Alvarez and Nuria Sierra to hear how he combined his desire to make a difference with the game of football (American soccer) to change 1.2 million lives to date.

Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Logistics with Purpose presented by Vector Global Logistics in partnership with Supply chain. Now we spotlight and celebrate organizations who are dedicated to creating a positive impact. Join us for this behind the scenes glimpse of the origin stories change, making progress, and future plans of organizations who are actively making a difference. Our goal isn’t just to entertain you, but to inspire you to go out and change the world. And now here’s today’s episode of Logistics with Purpose.

Enrique Alvarez (00:34):

Good day and welcome back to another episode of Logistics with Purpose. Today we have a very, very interesting guest, and I know that we usually say this, but today, this particular guest talked about two of my greatest passions. One kind of making a positive tap in the world, and then soccer, so, or football. How, uh, how great is that? Hey, NOIA, how are you doing today? I’m

Nuria Sierra (00:57):

Really good. Thank you. How Enrique

Enrique Alvarez (00:59):

<laugh>. It’s great. And it is gonna be fun, isn’t it? Yeah, an incredibly, uh, insightful as well. And again, I’ll let you introduce our guests, but we have with us today so that our audience can capture the extent of his career and professional career is writer, blogger, speaker, social entrepreneur, chairman of Sports Scotland, and, uh, just a general change maker. I mean, a very inspiring leader. So go ahead, Noya doo, the owners to introduce our guest.

Nuria Sierra (01:29):

Oh, eh, I’m very excited for the conversation today, and I would like to introduce you to Mel Young. He’s the president at the Homeless World Cup sub pioneering social movement, which uses football to help homeless people change their own lives. So Mel, welcome, welcome to the show. I’m really excited to talk to you today.

Mel Young (01:52):

Yeah, thank you very much. It’s great to, it’s great to be here and great to speak to you both.

Enrique Alvarez (01:56):

Well, thank you for being here. And yeah, I forgot to mention the very cool accent, which is going to make this part, this particular episode even more successful. So, Mel, thanks again. I know that you’re, uh, uh, you’re in Scotland right now, aren’t you?

Mel Young (02:08):

Yeah, I’m in Scotland. I’m, I’m Scottish. I’m, I’m in the capital city of Edinburgh.

Enrique Alvarez (02:13):

Nice. Well, tell us, why don’t you start us off by telling us a bit more about you. Uh, where did you grow? A couple of stories about your childhood, how kind of, uh, started getting interested in what you’re doing now?

Mel Young (02:25):

Um, yeah. I, I’m, I’m was brought, brought up in Edmore in Scotland, kind of very typical un un unspectacular childhood. Um, like lots of other, uh, kids my age just got into sport. Uh, I, I, I really loved it. Um, enjoyed the team ping, playing, playing, playing football or soccer as you call it. Um, uh, but I was never particularly good. Uh, I, I dunno, it’s just the kind of way my, my muscles and bones are, I think. What,

Enrique Alvarez (02:52):

What position were you, what position were you trying back then? I

Mel Young (02:54):

Used to, I, I used to play a forward, um, mm-hmm. And, um, I think I missed too many open goals. Something, you know, <laugh>, but, but it did, it didn’t matter. It didn’t, I mean, it wasn’t, I wasn’t terrible below average kind of, you know, but I, but I kind of loved it and all, all sports and so on. And, um, I enjoyed playing it. And then, and then I kind of got into watching it. And so I’ve always been into sports and, and, and, and loved it. And it’s not just, of course, necessarily been good at sports, it’s about participating and all the camaraderie around it and, uh, you know, going to, going to see teams or participating and doing things. So I’ve always loved that. And then l laterally as I grew up after, after kids, I got into running. So then, then I started doing marathons, uh, running marathons. Oh. Which was great, because once again, I was kind of average, you know, but hey, you know, I got, I finished it and got in the medal the same as everybody else. So I was, you know, that was it. That was the moment. So. Wow. Um, I still go jogging. I really enjoy that. Well,

Enrique Alvarez (03:55):

Running and finishing marathons is nothing average for me, at least. I’ve never really even run one. So That’s, that’s amazing. Thanks for sharing.

Nuria Sierra (04:02):

Yeah. So Mel, looking back, what’s the story from your early years that shaped who you are and what you do now? Can you tell us a bit?

Mel Young (04:12):

Um, I, I, I, that, that’s an interesting question. I mean, I think there’s lots of kind of influences you have as children as a child, don’t you? And you probably don’t know. So, you know, I, I, I’ve kind of emerged as an entrepreneur as, as, as a creative thinker, but I don’t think I necessarily was as a kid. But I, you know, the, the, I was, I was influenced by my mother definitely, who, uh, was in some ways a typical Scott, which was about, you’ve always got to look after your neighbor. She said, you know, it’s, that that’s really important that you’ve got to understand that you’re part of a community and part of our neighborhood. And that’s always stayed with me, uh, uh, throughout tho tho those kind of values, which are Scottish values. We understand community and and fairness. And that’s always stayed, stayed with me.

Mel Young (04:57):

And then I guess the other, the other little anecdotal story I tell us about is about sports. Cuz one time, and it always stayed with me, this I, I, I dunno how we ended up, but there was a whole crowd of us, uh, playing football in the park. And it was agreed that I would have the team with all the worst players, and we would play against the team with all the best players. So I took it upon myself then to organize the team of the worst players, including myself, and put them in different positions and said, look, if we stay in these positions and kick the ball to one another, we should do okay. And of course, the other team thought they were gonna win easily. So they were being doing all these wonderful tricks and just being themselves, trying to beat people. And what happened was we, we started to win and then they got all upset because we were winning. And then we started to win by more. So in the end we won by miles. And it, it is always, I dunno what’s always stayed with me, that is the fact that actually, you know, just, just becau just because you’re not necessarily the best at thing. If you do things together and work together in a different way, then actually you, you, you, you can try ’em. So it’s kind of one of my, one of my values that I learned as a kid. I think sport taught me that. That’s

Enrique Alvarez (06:06):

Awesome. That’s a, that’s a great, that’s a great thought as well, right? Because being the best doesn’t mean that you’ll be the best. Right. At the end of the day, there’s a lot of soccer professional football teams out there that have like the biggest cracks, the best players, and at the same time, they don’t work together as a team and they lose, they don’t win.

Mel Young (06:23):

Yeah. You know, e e exactly. I, I, I think that’s a bigger learning that you, you, you can have just, you can apply that to life, actually. Um, so you can, and, and there’s lots and lots of examples all over the world about football teams who have the most expensive players and so on and so forth who don’t win. Um, and that, you know, there’s great examples in England. One, one of the best I think was a manager called Brian Cl, who, who managed, uh, noting Forest and, um, uh, and Darby County. And they, he, he, he never had the best players, never, but actually he managed to mold them into a team and get ’em into play for each other. Then they won lots of things against all the odds. So, um, the, the, the, there’s lots in that, I think, uh, and that can apply to business, uh, and, and, and government and everywhere else about how we work together and work by working together and we can achieve a lot.

Enrique Alvarez (07:11):

Well, and it sounds like you’ve actually had, um, have used that thinking and that mentality and that strategy throughout your professional career to the point that you started the homeless World Cup. And for people that are out there that might not know what it is, I mean, it’s a very interesting name, and the World Cup just happened, so it’s something that’s probably very fresh in people’s minds. And, um, could you tell us a bit more, what is it, how did this idea start? Like 20 years ago? I believe it was,

Mel Young (07:39):

Yeah. I, I mean, I, I’ve been working with, uh, homeless people for, for a long time since the, the, the, the nineties. And we started up what was called a street paper in, in, in Scotland, which was basically the idea of getting homeless people to, to earn a living, uh, wa whilst on the street, which was basically by, uh, selling a, a magazine, which we created. And then they sold it and, and, and, and cook, uh, kept, uh, 60% of the cover price. And it, and, and it worked. And as a result of that, other, other street papers around the world, particularly around Europe started, and then we created a, a, a network of, of, of these street papers. And, um, once a year, I mean, we had very little resource, but we were able to get to meet somewhere, um, somewhere in the world and um, uh, uh, and then talk together.

Mel Young (08:28):

And it was always very inspiring when we’re talking together and we were learning from each other and, and saying, Hey, this is how this works. And so on. So at the end of one of these conferences, we were in Cape Town in South Africa in 2001. I was sitting with a colleague of mine, um, uh, Harold Schmidt from, he was from Austria, uh, having a beer after the conference. And we were said, um, th this, this is a really, really inspiring conference, but there’s no homeless people here. We’re, we’re either founders or editors or whatever, but, um, how, how could they experience what we are experiencing? Cause this is really quite inspiring, uh, in the way we’re talking to one another. And so, so, uh, over, over a beer, uh, we, we both agreed that, um, we both knew and, and talked about how much we loved football and what it was.

Mel Young (09:13):

And in fact, there were a team of some of our homeless guys in Scotland who kind of got together and kicked a ball around and said they were a team. And the same in, in Austria. So we agreed between us that there will be this game of football between Scotland versus Austria. We, we, we call ourselves and a and by the way, we’ll win. Um, we’ll never win, but we’ll beat you guys. So he said, but well, we, our neighbors are Germany and they always win. We don’t win, so we’ll beat you guys. So we were lucky, okay, <laugh>. And, um, so then we had another beer or two, and, and, and we, we, we, by the end of the evening, we’d created the homeless World Cup. So that, why, why shouldn’t every country come? Um, and not just Scotland and Austria. And we made up performance people and so on.

Mel Young (09:56):

And we call it the home smoke cup. So, so as you know, you can, you can have these creative discussions with it was, and it was good fun. And, and sometimes you just leave them there and they just kind of get left in the, the bar or whatever. Um, but the next morning we met again at, at breakfast in the hotel, and, and we said, Hey, that was a really good conversation. Will we do it? So that was the critical point. Sometimes people talk about it was that creative discussion, which was important. But the really important discussion was when we said, okay, let’s do this. And so basically what, what happens, we made it happen, uh, in 2003, so about 18 months later. And, um, it is very simple what we do. Um, our partners around the world just go into the street where homeless people are and say, W do you wanna play football?

Mel Young (10:40):

And here’s a ball. And the beauty of football, or, or, or soccers it’s called in the US is, is is it’s just really simple. You just kick a ball and you can be really rubbish at it, or you can be brilliant at it, and you can put in the same team and you can be two aside or 20 aside. You can play anywhere. Um, and so it’s a very, very simple game to get people involved in. And it’s not expensive and can play anywhere. So for, for us as an entry point for our homeless people, whatever state they were in, we’d get them playing football. And then they more or less generally, we said, you wanna play this? Said, oh yeah, let, let’s, let’s, let’s play. Why not? We’re not doing anything else. And so then, then the incentive was, okay, um, you know, you can, you can get to represent your country.

Mel Young (11:21):

Um, and so we had our first event, um, in 2003 in the middle of Gras in Austria, where Harold was from. We play on small pictures. So we don’t, we deliberately don’t go to where the big pictures are cuz they’re a long way away, right. Playing small pictures. We always go to the center of towns, which is where homeless people are, and we play short games. There, there, there are seven minutes each way with a minute in between. Um, and, um, so we took it to, to, to Gras. We didn’t know what was gonna happen. Okay. Um, and, um, uh, it was just an outstanding success. I, I mean beyond anything that we could imagine. Um, so that what we saw was over a week, homeless people changing out of all recognition, standing up, representing their country in their, in their, in their football tops and so on.

Mel Young (12:09):

So proud to be part of their country. We saw, um, people in the stem. We, we, we built Tribunes, which were full up of people cheering them. So this was people who would normally walk past homeless people or spit at them or whatever. They’re now cheering them. And then the world’s media turned up and, and, and was positive about what was happening. And normally they were negative. So, wow. It, it was a success for us. And then just in the final point of this, the final, we, we, we did research afterwards, um, about what had happened and we found that 80% of the players had changed their lives, had gone, uh, uh, or, and were no longer homeless as a result of this. Oh. So as a, because of that, we, we didn’t, I didn’t believe the, the statistics to begin with us. And no, they’re too highs. That’s not possible. I don’t believe that. And, but we checked and checked it was right. And so we’ve kept on doing it ever since.

Enrique Alvarez (12:59):

That’s, uh, such an inspiring story. And uh, and it’s amazing that something so simple, as you said, like a game really, cuz it is, that is what it is. Uh, uh, football or soccer, it’s a game and something, uh, like a game can change so many lives and has done amazing positive impact in many communities around the world. So thank you for sharing. Before I let Nuco, I think she has a couple of very interesting questions, but, uh, I wanted to have a quick follow up if you mind, if you don’t mind. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you started working with the homeless magazine you mentioned, and the newspapers and all that. What’s your kind of, uh, there’s tons of really good causes out there. What’s your connection with the homeless community and why, why do you personally kind of are so invested in it?

Mel Young (13:40):

Yeah, that, that, that, that’s a good question. I I, I, I mean, I haven’t experienced any homelessness myself other than a couple of stupid days when I was a student or something. So I, I can’t say that I, I, I’ve come from that community. Um, you know, as a, as I was saying earlier, in terms of my childhood, some of the values I have is, is, is, is about you. You need to have fairness. And I could never understand how you had, uh, young people, particularly in, in, in, in the street. I thought it was appalling. Um, and so my background was a, a as a journalist and I’d, uh, I’d seen, um, a similar magazine in London and, um, I thought I could bring it to Scotland using my skill as a journalist and got together with, with a, a friend of mine who is more a social background, more business background.

Mel Young (14:24):

And, and, you know, I thought, well, look, my, what I could contribute here would be, um, my journalism or, or, uh, ability to, to, to publish. And that would be my contribution. I didn’t really know where it was gonna go. Again, this was back in 1993. Um, but it was, it was a, a, a big success. Um, lots of people bought the magazines. We had a lot of homeless people there. And at, at that point, I really got much more into, um, what was going on in terms of the, of, of homelessness, um, how, uh, debilitating it was, how difficult people found it to get back into society once they’ve fallen off the edge. Getting back in was really difficult. So yeah, for the magazine we were pro providing a, a step. Um, uh, I, I wasn’t necessarily going to do this forever, but, but, uh, you know, I’ve been there forever if I <laugh> right, I stayed in there, but, you know, and then I was in other countries and I was in Russia, for example, for a while, helping them, uh, set up another paper and, and I was appalled, uh, uh, uh, well was going on there.

Mel Young (15:31):

The number of people that were on the street who were just dying on the street actually. It, it, it, and it started to, I started to kind of understand that actually this whole issue was a, uh, a global issue and, um, a systemic issue. And what we were trying to do then was replicate the idea of the papers, um, to try and make as bigger impact as we could by sh by, by working together across, across borders. Um, and, and hence then the, the, the, the, the, the football was was born. So that’s a bit of a connector back to the beginning governments. Well,

Enrique Alvarez (16:07):

No, that’s great. And, and you point a couple of things there that are very clear and of course real. And it’s, uh, it’s a systemic problem. Like it’s not, and a lot of people have, uh, I think we need a little bit more awareness, a little more education. A lot of people have a completely different view of homelessness, and it’s a flawed view of why we have homelessness. So you’re, you’re absolutely right about that. But I know, uh, Nuy has itching to kind of ask a couple her questions as well. So I’ll, uh, I’ll shut up and let you speak now. Noia. Go ahead,

Nuria Sierra (16:36):

<laugh>. Thank you. Thank you. Wow, that’s such an inspiring story. So Mel, just in the, in the US there are over half a million people experiencing homelessness. So talking on a worldwide level, the number increases daily. So how many lives are currently being impacted by the homeless World Cup movement? Can you tell us?

Mel Young (17:00):

Yeah, um, I mean we, we, I mean, first of all, just on the statistics you gave, I mean, to me it’s, it’s absolutely shocking that the US which is, is still the richest country in the world. Okay? And you have the people are homeless, mean, that’s pointing to the, the, the, the systemic problem. That, that there’s hardly anybody I’ve met ever who, who wants to be homeless. Nobody wants to be homeless. And interestingly, if you, you know, I, I’ve done a lot of talks to, to, to school children, to students, to, um, business leaders, to rich people, to, you name it. And I’ve asked anybody think homelessness is a good idea? Nobody thinks it’s a good idea. So here, the homeless people don’t wanna be homeless. Nobody thinks it’s a good idea, but we have it. And that’s why it’s a systemic problem. The numbers are really difficult to, to, to, to count always.

Mel Young (17:47):

But, you know, the US is a, a, a significant problem, but so does everywhere else. Um, what we, what we’ve done, the numbers that we, uh, uh, uh, uh, are involved in our programs this year will be a approximately a hundred thousand. So since we’ve started, you know, our estimate is that we’ve impacted the lives of 1.2 million people. Wow. And, um, my view is, you know, it, and we’ve got lots and lots of stories, hundreds of stories of people who’ve changed their lives completely just by starting to kick a football around and, and getting, um, you know, that that feeling of of of self-worth and self-respect back. And then as of was helping being able to climb out on their situation. Um, but my, my, my worry really all, all the time is people can say, we’ve done a good job. And I think we have.

Mel Young (18:33):

And we, there’s lots, it’s, it’s not just me. There’s lots of people involved in this around the world, um, what we’ve created. But, but, but my concern is as soon as we move one person, somebody else comes in to take a place. And so whilst we are making an impact, we’re not, we’re not connecting in with governments and others to say, right, how are we changing the system to stop people coming in the first place? We can do what we can do and it’s impactful, but hey, really we’re, it’s just a kind of a tiny dot on, on what is a massive problem.

Enrique Alvarez (19:05):

You’re absolutely, uh, absolutely right. And, uh, it is a big problem and it requires a lot of people to come together. And I think that’s why it’s so brilliant to kind of pair this particular cost or this particular challenge that by the way, we all have, right? It’s not like a problem that only a certain, uh, people are, are living. I mean, it’s not only up to the homeless, it’s really something that is up to all of us that are citizens of the world to take ownership and try to make it better for everyone. So football is, uh, a great kind of thing to join things together. It’s a great sport, it’s a worldwide sport. It’s growing fast and that’s definitely, uh, the first step to make the change here. Um, what do you think the long impact of, of the homeless World Cup in particular will have? And where do you see this going? Which of course is an amazing movement and a hundred, 1.2 million people. I mean, that’s, those numbers are significant for sure.

Mel Young (20:03):

I, I mean, we, we just want to, to, to grow it, to be quite honest, because we know it’s impactful. Everywhere we go, we get the change. So we want to be in more countries, we want to be in more cities, in cities that we’re currently in. We want to be connected to more neighborhoods. So really anywhere there’s, there’s, there’s homeless people or there’s an issue we want to be, and, um, we want to be impactful. So we want to be telling a story about not just homeless people are playing football, but how they’re no longer homeless. That’s what, that’s what our objective is. The, the beauty of the football is, is it’s just simple and people can relate to it. Um, and so, you know, people look, look at people at homeless and then they see them play football. They never look at them in the same way again.

Mel Young (20:46):

So we’re destroying this stereotypical view. And you know, I’m always saying, look, a actually, it’s not about necessarily thinking about the alleged 1 billion homeless people that the United Nations say there are. Cuz you can’t, we can’t comprehend that as an in one human being, but you can’t do something small to create change. So the story I sometimes ask is that, you know, how can a football referee end homelessness and no idea. And what we have at the homeless World Cup, whole quarter of international referees now who volunteer, who come every year, uh, to our, to our annual events, referee the game, very important. We have a referees cause they keep order and they, you know, keep, make sure the rules are, are held very, very important. Um, and that’s what they do. That’s their contribution, which is actually a major contribution in point of fact.

Mel Young (21:40):

And people never think what a refer how a referee could impact something. And if you start thinking about all of that, if we all do something right, a little, even if it’s just a tiny thing that’s constructive and we join all that up, then that’s how you create the change. And I think that that’s what we’re doing. All sorts of people are starting to go, Hey, you know, that works. How can we join in with them? Then we all go, okay, this is, this is what you could do for us. This, this is how this could make a difference. And we, we, we build it up from there and then, then that’s how we’ll create change.

Enrique Alvarez (22:12):

Well, that’s, uh, incredible. And ndia, I Mel’s an incredibly humble person as well when he is telling all the stories. But I think Baron, I went to the website and I, correct me if I’m wrong, Mel, but I think they’re in 75 countries. Isn’t, isn’t that amazing Ndia, what’s your, what’s your take on, on, on this particular point, like the amount, the worldwide organization that they have built in such a small period of time?

Nuria Sierra (22:35):

Well, that is, uh, that’s an incredible, uh, mission. And I think that, uh, well you are not only impacting and and giving hope, eh, to those people, I think that you are giving them purpose, a purpose in their lives. And, uh, well, I I I, I would like to ask you lots of things about, I I’m very curious about to know how does it work? How, how is the dynamic within the, the, the, well the process, since one person joined the, the homeless World Cup, how, how does it work? How, how is it, uh, the, the process, uh, during that year that they, they are part of the homeless World Cup and uh, then they, they they come to play with you and represent their country? Yeah,

Mel Young (23:29):

I, I I I, I can answer that. I mean, I just answer in kind of general terms. Cause every country’s just a little different mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, but, but we, we will go to where homeless people are, or homeless, homeless people will put a notice somewhere to say that there’s some soccer or football going on. And we, in, in the initial phase, we never comment on, on the homeless person. We just said, you wanna have some place in football and have some fun for an hour. Okay. And so everybody’s running around and it, um, it’s important that the, the, the, the, the, the psychological interventions at this point, cause people self-esteem is, is zero. You, everything is gone. You don’t believe anything is possible. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we’re just kinda creating a space where people can be, and then we try encourage ’em to come back to the next day or the day after and say, Hey, come back.

Mel Young (24:17):

It’s quite important actually, cuz you’re the goalkeeper and we need you or the blah blah, whoever it is is part of the team. And so we’re trying to build, uh, and we are building a kind of family atmosphere where they kind of feel, feel, uh, valued and feel part of. And, and, and then over time we start working with them and build, building it up. And so there’ll be different issues that are maybe affecting ’em. They might be about obviously housing. They might be about employment, they might be about drugs, they might be about alcohol, they might be about family issues, might be about the whole lot put together. And we’ll start saying to, well, there’s pathways in which we can build and help you. Um, uh, trying to sort out some of these issues. Some can react quite quickly to that. Others are much slower.

Mel Young (24:59):

We don’t really care actually. Um, we always use the football as the center point. Um, a big objective for them is to try and get on the team, uh, to, to represent their country. Now not all of them can get on the team, but you know, they, they kind of understand that most of the players who selected are, are at the end of a process. So, you know, they’re, they’re about to move into a house or a job or whatever. So it’s, the players selected for the country aren’t, we haven’t got them from the street the day before. They’ve been going through the, our programs and they’re only allowed to come to our event once because it’s the, it is, you know, it’s the end. It’s like you’re moving on. And so the, the whole story, it within this is about change is about moving on and we celebrate the guys who move on in a way so that this is the way, the correct pathway for others to follow.

Mel Young (25:48):

You know, we, we correct that and a lot of our former players, the former homeless players now have come, come back as volunteer coaches when they have jobs and houses. They come back, they volunteer, some of them even run the pro programs now, actually manage the whole programs. And of course they’re able to say to, to people say, oh, you dunno what it’s like being where I am. And they’re able to say, yep, I used to be right there and now I’m here so you can do the same. And that’s very, very uh, uh, impactful and inspiring that. So I mean, I mean that’s a very general answer I’m giving you about kind of what’s happening. It’s obviously a bit more complicated that not quite so straightforward, but hey, that’s the process and it works.

Nuria Sierra (26:29):

No, that’s amazing. Sounds incredible. So, eh, jumping on a solid pillar that also supports a homeless World Cup ideology, um, which is the new I s M. So can you tell us a bit more about it and what does, does it stands for?

Mel Young (26:47):

Uh, yeah. Well this is something I I, I started up just prior to Covid, um, with, with, with a friend of mine called Alex Matthews. And we, what basically where that comes from is that, again, it re relates very much to my experience in terms of homelessness. It’s about the kind of system fair we are and the, the, the, the new comes from the, from a perspective of, um, we need to have a look at the way that we’re all working together and kind of systems. Cuz nothing, nothing appears to be actually working. And so it’s, it’s not an issue between an economics issue of capitalism on the island versus socialism. It’s, it’s not that at all. It’s basically saying, actually I don’t, we don’t think these work anymore in the modern world. Have we got an economic system that actually is fit for the modern world?

Mel Young (27:37):

So leaving the politics and everything aside, what, how can you create a system which is fair, which allows everybody to participate, uh, because so many people are, are falling off the edge. So we then talk to talk about issues like, and we try to be constructive about it. So if I, we don’t know what theism is. Okay, well what is it? Dunno. But hey, look, let’s look at some of the elements that are around it we might like to have in there. So, you know, we, we’ve talked to people who, who run fair trade for example. So we say, Hey, is the, the basis of fair trade is, is that the way we should do all trade? Not just some, all of it is, uh, microfinance, uh, which is, you know, microfinance banking is, is that a way we should be doing banking in the future?

Mel Young (28:24):

Uh, environmental, um, uh, labeling, et cetera, et cetera. And you start to build up something which becomes the basis of a, of a new economic system. So that’s where the new comes. And we, we, we, we’ve got a lot of people to come and contribute, I don’t think anywhere near yet being able to, to have this aha moment. This is what this looks like. But there are certain elements in there, and I’m quite sure if people start to connect into this and a lot of people who want to do it to talk about it. So people from the business world get this, they get it. They say, you know, we agree with this actually, cuz you can’t, you can’t keep on growing, uh, in a finite planet. So, uh, if if the whole basis of of an economy’s growth and you’re living in a finite place, it’s not gonna work in the end.

Mel Young (29:13):

So how, how, how do you, how do you deal with this? See, if you look at the Adam Smith, who is the creator of, of capitalism wrote The Wealth of Nation, he says, Scott, but if you look at that, he, when he was kind of talking about money, he said, the role of money must be for, for for for the good of the people, for good of society. Okay. But, but of course it’s, and his his view was how you circulate money, which was the basis of capitalism. But, but I think if he was alive now, he would be appalled by what’s happening because, because the, the gap between the rich and the poor is getting so big and, and people can’t connect to one another. So how, how, how do we sort this fundamentally without kind of tinkering at the edges of everything. Okay, how do you, how do, how do you really change it? So that’s what the new a debate with a view to trying to come up with ideas about how how we might all live and all have all all have a fair share.

Enrique Alvarez (30:09):

That’s uh, yeah. And, and then you’re, it’s a good problem. It’s a problem that we definitely need to resolve. Um, that’s why I said it’s a good problem that the wrong word choice there, but it’s really something that’s critical for us to kind of figure out. And there’s a lot of organizations that are doing this conscious capitalism go beyond profit. There’s a lot of people that are already thinking very similarly to, to you Mel, when it comes to this. So, uh, definitely encourage the dialogue and this is another way to, uh, raise awareness, uh, that, that this is not working right. We have to find a better way. We have to find a way to actually improve what we’re doing cuz it’s clearly not for everyone.

Mel Young (30:50):

Yeah. A a absolutely. That’s what I think, and I think business actually has a central role to this. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m a great believer in, in, in, in, in, in business. I’m, I’m, there’s a lot of talent and brains in business and you know, in discussion with some business owners and and CEOs, they’ll, they’ll start to talk about, okay, you know, how how do we allocate shares? How do we distribute wealth? How do we share? But at the same time, how are we innovative and smart and make sure that our, our businesses are, are, are something of, of, of, of real value. And so you get into really good, good discussions there, I think about, about how everything is, how everything is structured. Um, absolutely. So I think this, this a real lead in business and, and I know you guys are a vector are doing that, and you’re, you’re doing that Rikki.

Mel Young (31:38):

So, um, it’s, it’s really good to have a, um, a good, you know, discussion about that and think these things through. I’m not, I’m not somebody who, you know, sits some protests outside, if you like. I mean, okay, maybe the protestors have a point, maybe they don’t, but actually I’m gonna go, yeah, okay, well what are we doing about this? How, how does one move forward here? And most people in the world aren’t bad at all, actually, they’re goodies. It’s just that we’ve created a system that’s making so many people poor and so many people excluded. So how do we sort that out? And surely we can do that.

Enrique Alvarez (32:14):

It’s, it’s, it’s incredible how everything kind of comes back to the one thing that you thought was actually a good catalyst to change it, which is let’s come together and have a, a fun game of soccer or a football, right? And so it’s, it’s homeless. Uh, the homeless World Cup actually I think is a good way to take all the politics and all this other things out of the equation, which is something you mentioned a couple, couple of times. It’s like a game. Everyone in the world enjoys it and most people are growing into it. So, uh, so this is a great way of doing it. Now I wanted to change gears a little bit here and I just wanted to ask you, I mean you’ve been doing this very successfully for 20 years with this particular organization, but of course you told us a little bit about the homeless magazine and some of the other things.

Enrique Alvarez (32:57):

So you did before that. And it sounds like you’ve been doing this ever since your mom told you that you have to pay attention of neighbors. So, uh, what have you, what have you learned? I mean, what would you, again, there’s tons of organizations out there trying to do something very similar when it comes to, um, making a positive impact in the world and helping people that are not as, um, lucky really, that have not had the same opportunities. Uh, what would you kind of, um, recommend to, to these organizations out there? What have you learned? What are some of the key insights after all this years?

Mel Young (33:31):

I, I I, I think in, in, in the sector we are in, if you like call it the NGO sector or non non non-private, non-public sector, one, one of the things that we are not good at is working together. Um, there’s actually quite a lot of us out there, um, and doing a lot of good stuff actually. Um, and with little resources, but, but, but coming together to do things we we’re not good at and we need to get much better at it and we need to understand it’s about the systems. Um, and there’s something there about the kind of passion that, that, that founders put in and then they’re reluctant to share it, I think is something about this kind of human, uh, aspect to it. And it’s interesting if you compare that sector with say the private sector. So if the private sector, there might be real, real competitors, um, but if there was some kind of barrier in front of them, then they would start talking to one another or, or create trade associations or different associations.

Mel Young (34:30):

They’d work out a way in which they could work together but still remain independent. Whereas I, I think our sector’s very poor at that actually, and we need to be smarter at it. I think that the, the discussion and that’s happening as a great organization called Catalyst 2030, which is having a look at systems and, and getting people to work together. It’s relatively new and, and, and it’s growing. Um, some, some fabulous, fabulous people in it. So it’s changing a bit. But that, that’s one thing I think that I take away. We’d have the, the, the, the other one would be that, um, one of the parts of the values I have is you can, you learn something every day from whoever you can learn from a professor, but you can learn from a homeless person actually, um, or learn from a bus driver or whatever. Um, and um, I think we don’t listen enough to people who are in, in the situation act on it. So there, there, there are almost too many academics and researchers around, you know, disrespect to them. And actually it’s the people at the front who experience the problem that actually we should be paying a bit more attention to. Cuz actually they know what some solutions are and they’re sitting there and they’re talking about what they are and, and sometimes they’re completely missed.

Nuria Sierra (35:45):

Wow. Well Mel, you have written, uh, a few books and uh, to learn more about your, about you and, and your mission. I’m curious about something. So from the back cover of your, of the book, eh, home Game, A Ball Can Change the World. There is a premise of how can such a simple game like football tackle such a complex problem. So, and it makes me, that makes me think that for her problems is great to find simple solutions. So what other things can people learn from the story you detailed here?

Mel Young (36:21):

Well, I mean, I think important, the point I was making there, and, and maybe the thing sometimes people can learn is that it it, in some some ways the solutions are very straightforward, okay? And sometimes what happens is we, there’s not any particular sector, we tie ourselves in knots trying to get to solutions and spend a lot of money trying to get to those solutions when in point of fact it’s about connecting with the people in, in our case we talk with the homeless people and listen to them and, and deliver something that, that they want. And we’re using the football as a communication tool to the outside world and and, and to people in the football authorities and so on. So I think, I think, um, a lot of these things we can apply, uh, to, um, other issues that are out there. Uh, I mean, you know, I think we have to be careful about how we, um, again, think about systemically, okay, so we, we, we get into, into diff difference.

Mel Young (37:22):

Here’s another example. So we, we overproduced food and we have these, um, uh, uh, in supermarkets. So we have these sell by dates and we have to get rid of the food cuz we can’t push it past the sell by dates. So, so we, we, we, we, we, we put them in the rubbish and yet the another bit of the world can’t feed itself. So then somebody kind of comes up and, and, and, and we, we, we create food banks. So the, the supermarkets can rid of the food into the food banks and then it gives the people who can’t afford to eat, but, but the, the, the problem we then get into. So it’s almost like that’s your emergency. Okay. But, but, but people, the food banks stay there forever and they get bigger and bigger and bigger and, and, and then that starts to become, become the, the way of life.

Mel Young (38:07):

Whereas I think, hey, no, there’s got to be a simple solution under which people have enough money to buy their own food. Because actually that would call jobs that would stimulate your economy act as a multiplier or a thing. So I would be seeing it right in that space. We ought to be trying to get rid of food banks, not from a bad point of view, rid of food banks, getting rid of that culture, which is a kind of handout culture into a way in which people, uh, can make decisions for, for themselves. And it’s got to be a simple way to do that. So, uh, it’s, it’s a question of kind of sitting down maybe like, like me and Harold did originally who came up the football and just throwing some ideas around and then you need the entrepreneur to go or the leader to go, right, this is what we’re doing.

Enrique Alvarez (38:49):

Yeah, that’s, uh, absolutely true. And um, I, uh, I think someone I heard or read somewhere that, uh, hunger, uh, it’s really more a logistics problem than a food scarcity problem cuz there is more than enough food in the world to feed people that are starving and there’s some food that we’re throwing away. So it’s, you’re absolutely right about this. And, um, moving back a little bit to the homeless World Cup events, I know that you have been hosting quite a few, some, uh, could you tell us a little bit of the cities that have been hosting this event in the past? I mean, who was the last one? And maybe an announcement as of which will be the next one, which we’re all thrilled about.

Mel Young (39:31):

Yeah, yeah. So we, we we, we’ve been all around the world in, in, in everywhere we’ve been, every city we’ve been, it’s been just great. So we’ve been in, in Melbourne, uh, in, in, in Australia. And that was a kind of special moment because, uh, we paid in the middle of Federation Square and the final was between Afghanistan and Russia. And, um, Russia had a chance to, to equalize in the last second and missed in Afghanistan one. And the placement went crazy and it was <laugh> it was amazing. And then we’ve been in uh, uh, Rio Koana Beach. We’ve been in Mexico City in solo Wow. Where we had, over the week we play over a week. We had 160,000 people came. So I can say that’s 160,000 people came to watch homeless people play football. By the way, that’s, and

Enrique Alvarez (40:14):

By the way, speaking of Mexico in particular, that’s the Azteca Stadium. I mean, that’s about the same capacity of what the Azteca Stadium would hold.

Mel Young (40:21):

Yeah, yeah. It was, it was amazing. Mexican, uh, people just kind of loved it. <laugh> also Mexico, men and women, we have men and women’s competitions. They’re now, they’re, they’re now ver they’re the, they’re top in the world. Um, they’re, they’re the champions. They’re the team everybody wants to be. Um, and then we were in Santiago, in Chile, we’ve been in Paris under the, uh, Eiffel Tower, Amsterdam, Cape Town in, in, in, uh, South Africa. And then, um, we, we, we’ve been trying to get, uh, to, to the US for, for for a while and we, we will be in Sacramento in July. Um, and we are very, very excited to be in the us. Um, and um, we think it’s gonna be a fantastic event. Our, our partners there that we’re working with Street Soccer, usa, um, uh, you know, wanna make it the best ever and I’m sure it will be.

Mel Young (41:10):

Uh, so we we’re, we’re we’re excited about that. Everyone’s excited about coming and, um, that’s gonna be in July. I, I I, I, I’d urge people to come and watch cuz it’s so interesting. Um, people kind of, they, they listen to maybe what I’m talking about, other people talking about, they don’t really get it. And then when they, they come, they go, wow, this is, this is, this is amazing. What’s going on here? <laugh> and even people, uh, nui who, who don’t like football, okay, um, they kind of go, I don’t like football, but I like what’s going on here? <laugh> and uh, cause the players, um, if you think about it, they, after being homeless and all that, now they represent their country, everyone’s cheering and it’s their moment of their life you can imagine. And so they just give off this kind of just positive vine. Yeah. That there’s, there’s no red cards. There’re there’s, they’re people are competitive, they wanna win the game, okay. But, but, but it is just played in an app in, in a fantastic spirit, um, where the players are connecting with one another, connecting with the audience, and it becomes a special atmosphere.

Enrique Alvarez (42:09):

The energy sounds unbelievable. And of course I encourage everyone that’s listening to us right now to mark your calendars, uh, for the US Homeless World Cup, which I’m sure will be a big, big success as a country. I’m American and everyone that’s here in the US we’ll definitely do whatever it takes to, to make it the best one, right? We’re competitive and by nature and, and we are fully supportive as well. This is an amazing cause And of course this is an amazing country to host this in and I think there’s a lot of things that can, uh, come out of that World Cup. So we’ll put all those comments, all those links, everything you’ve said in the notes. Uh, but this is amazing. Uh, Nodia, any, any thoughts on that? And I know that you have another question, so go ahead.

Nuria Sierra (42:58):

Well, uh, I I believe that, uh, with the homeless World Cup events, uh, there might be implemented logistics in the process. So what would you, what means to you, uh, logistics with pool, post

Mel Young (43:17):

Logistics with football? I mean, logistics is, uh, is obviously a really, really important part of what we’re we’re doing. Cause we are in a sense mo moving people around the world and, and, and you know, some of them don’t even have passports or identity and so they have to get to get that. And then we have to kind of move them. We have to move the, the bits around the event. And so, and then putting on the event is really a logistical exercise to be quite honest. So logistics is a very, very important part. And having Vector here as, as our new logistics partner, which we are, we are, we’re thrilled about, um, you know, we can, we can always, um, come to you for advice and help and support which you, which you, you’re giving us, which is, is, is fabulous. Um, just back onto the us coming to the US again.

Mel Young (43:59):

See, we, we we’re excited about coming to us because there’s a, an issue here, but we, we also know that US is a country which, which problem solves a and is also incredibly generous and kind. And you put these together and say, Hey look, can we, can we build on this? Can we actually start a, start a real energy around here based on these homeless guys who’ve changed their lives that we’re gonna make this, this really, really impactful. Um, and I, that’s what’s exciting is I’m it’s gonna be a great event. I’m, I’m sure and the people that come to watch Will, will, will just get into it big time.

Enrique Alvarez (44:35):

No, this is the first time in the US too, right, Mel?

Mel Young (44:37):

It’s the first time we’ve been in the US the first time. Yeah. We’ve wanted to come for a long time. So this is the first time. So we are excited about it.

Enrique Alvarez (44:43):

Very excited. Well, Mel, thank you so much. Um, we have, I mean, we could be talking about this for, for a couple more hours and we’ll probably invite you over a couple more times, uh, as this whole thing progresses as you host the successful homeless World Cup in California and Sacramento, we’ll put all the links so that people can not only go and watch, but can also support you. Um, what would you tell our listeners, what’s the call of action when it comes to not only supporting the homeless World Cup, but in general, what would you, what would you tell to everyone that’s listening to us right now?

Mel Young (45:17):

Well, if in, in the US certainly come along the range July in Sacramento, if you could make it come along, I promise you, you, you’ll, you’ll love it. Um, that would be my call. The other thing that would be come, come and support us, we there, our websites on the world cup.org, but o other than that, um, it’s about we all have to take kind of an intervention. As I said earlier, it’s all about doing a little something. So it, you know, if we all do that something, we will make the change. So it’s, it, we don’t have to do huge things. Um, and think about something small that you might be able to do in your neighborhood, your street or wherever and, and, and just do it. And sometimes that’s even just speaking to a homeless person, you know, cuz they, they’re totally isolated and, and they’re just gonna say, hello, how are you doing?

Mel Young (46:00):

And um, what do you like, do you like soccer? Do you like blah, blah, blah, and you like this music or what? Whatever it is. Um, and, and, and, and because, because homeless people are, are so excluded and, and, and so lucky in self-esteem, it just is really, really helpful. But just trying to think through, okay, what could we do that’s not only impactful in terms of that emergency that I’m talking about. So somebody’s on the street and they’re hungry, so we give them food, of course we do. But actually how do we get them off the street altogether so that we don’t have to give them things? How is it that we move people on completely back into society, in the society which we live in? So that will be the, my call to action. We all do something. We’ll change the world.

Enrique Alvarez (46:37):

Mel, thank you very, very much. It’s been a pleasure talking to you. For everyone else that’s listening to us, if you like and enjoy conversations like the one we just had with Mel Young from the Homeless World Cup, um, please join us, uh, subscribe and thank you very much. I’ll see you next time.