The Buzz: How Smarter Automation is Reshaping Manufacturing

Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

Scott Luton (00:14):

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and special guest co-host, Dr. Mudasir Ahmed here with you on supply chain now. Welcome to today’s live stream. Mudasir, how you doing my friend?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (00:27):

Doing very well. Thanks for having me again. I think our first show was super good, great feedback from folks. Actually, the person who introduced me, Anthony, who was our guest, I was so impressed. I recommended him on the C12 conference and I will be meeting with him and we will be speaking both of us in Mexico next month.

Scott Luton (00:46):

That is outstanding. Well, it’s great to have you back. You bring not only wonderful insights and expertise, but there’s an electricity about you, Mudasir. It’s great to have you back here perfectly on the Buzz, a great combination, a great marriage.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (01:00):

Thank you very much. Thank

Scott Luton (01:01):

You. Hope to see you

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (01:02):

Again soon, right?

Scott Luton (01:03):

In person soon, Mudasir. Folks, as I mentioned, it’s the Buzz where every Monday at 120 in the Eastern Time, we discuss a variety of news developments from across global supply chain and business. News that matters is what we like to call it. And all month long in September, Buzz is powered by our friends at MFG Inc, a highly experienced unique firm that is helping manufacturers grow without the grind. Learn more at mfg.inc. Okay, so Mudasir, we got a big show. We’ve got a lot of topics. We’re going to be talking about big automotive going really big on automation and robotics. Speaking of automation and robotics, how is the art of the possible there evolving? Unfortunately, we have to talk about diesel fuel prices because it continues to ramp up. Man, a lot of pain there at the pump. The calls for a possible AI slowdown continue.

(01:49):

We’ll talk about it. And so we’re going to cover all of that and much, much more. And in about 15 minutes or so, we’re bringing in a special guest, Christine Bush with Schneider Electric is here. You’re going to enjoy her perspective on a variety of topics. So Mudasir, you’re always ready, but are you ready for this latest edition of the Buzz?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (02:08):

I was born ready, but I read your last Asia Pacific one. Some really interesting insights and I would want to give a compliment to you because I was thinking too, what is the portal to get the latest news? And I would say anybody who’s listening and watching, basically that is a place to go. What they say is the place to get all the updates. I think it’s fantastic.

Scott Luton (02:28):

Well, you’re too kind. And if Mudasir endorses it, it’s got to be good. He doesn’t hand that out like candy. So by the way, Alan Jacques is with us here today from beautiful Ottawa, Canada, unless he’s traveling. Great to see you, Alan. And Trisha has also already dropped. She says, “Hello, Buzzday. Let’s know where you’re tuned in from,” but she’s also dropped the link to MFG Inc. So folks go check that out. Okay, so let’s see. We got three things to hit, Mudasir, before we have a wonderful guest join us. So I’m going to jump right in with, let’s see here. We dropped the 188th edition of With That Said last Saturday, a couple of things that we included in this almost weekly newsletter, a high level summary of our latest edition of the Buzz APAC edition. We have this about once a month and it takes place at 12 midnight our time, but noon, Singapore time, so to speak.

(03:22):

So we got Brett, Ramon and Stephanie that usually hosts the show. But in the first edition a few weeks ago or the latest edition a few weeks ago, Brett and Ramon hosted Wolfgang Lemaker on a variety of topics related to the innovative Asia Pacific region of the world. And get this, one of my favorite things that Wolfgang shared was this, “Asia Pacific does not need imported supply chain templates. It needs solutions built for its own complexity.” Well said, Wolfgang. And folks, we’re going to drop a link to that episode. You can see all of that and much, much more from a couple weeks ago. And then secondly, Ludosir, I want to hit on, I got to, it’s diesel. So we called out some diesel factoids in the latest edition. With that said, we shared perspective from our friends at Sentinel Economics. Ludacir, I am not an economist.

(04:11):

I’ve proved that time and time again, but they reported on both the elevated diesel fuel pricing and as illustrated here, how US diesel inventories are well below normal for this time of year. All of that, along with the pending harvest season and the fall freight demand and all the geopolitical challenges, it’s unfortunately creating almost a perfect storm. And in fact, get this, this morning, AAA reported that average US diesel prices have set an all new record, all time record, 651 per gallon. A year ago for diesel, it was 369 per gallon. So folks, check out what that said. There’s a lot more in there. And Mudasir, you were calling out the APAC conversation earlier. Did you get a chance to take a read of what that said? Yeah,

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (04:56):

I did skim through. And a couple of things which really sticks out in my reading is the growth of the e-commerce. There’s only few players like Lazada and I think Shopie. And you mentioned the total volume was $157 billion. I think that’s a massive number and it’s 22% more than the previous year, but it’s only a handful of players. So that shows e-commerce supply chain is controlled by a handful of players. Then what happens even in the Asia Pacific, let’s call it China, for example, there are billion people, but they still do not have enough people to basically fulfill the demand. So now they’re moving towards the automation, not because of, I think, of course labor is one of the factors, but because to meet the cost and the efficiency and service and deliverability to

Intro/Outro (05:46):

The

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (05:46):

E-commerce customers. And that was because we think about first time I saw automated warehouse in 15 years ago when I was in Germany and the root cause of automation in Europe is because labor and human beings are hard to find. But even in the places, so then trusting facts, even the places that there’s millions of people, millions of people, automation is the right solution to meet the customer expectation, the cost expectation, stakeholder expectation. And I’m glad we got Christine on the show who is the expert in this kind of projects and how to achieve it. So I’m really looking forward to build on that discussion.

Scott Luton (06:24):

I’m with you. And gosh, well said. You don’t waste any time. You’re right off the starting line and you’re already moving a hundred miles an hour. I love it, Mudasir. Great to have you back. So folks, go check out with that said, Trish has dropped the link right there and let us know what you think on any of the stuff in there. If you agree, you disagree or share your own perspective, we’d love to hear from you. And T-Squared is back with us. Good Monday folks, bring it on, the nourishment that is. And of course, T-Squared holds down the fort for us on YouTube and is the part of Baltimore up in Maryland. Great see T-Squared. Okay, so two more quick things before we bring on Christine here. Number two, I’m really curious, Mudasir, because you’ve got a lot of stuff going on, you’re helping organizations a lot of different ways, but this SCM Sensei AI, what’s the latest with that and what’s some of the feedback you’ve gotten on this innovative platform?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (07:14):

That’s great. So we are punching ourselves as AI supply chain consultant. So basically if you compare volume supply chain consultants to basically get the best practices, agnostics benchmarking, we want to ask them to draft policies and procedures, which we basically have been doing for a living, and you want to do some analysis. So what we have done here, we have consolidate all those good things at SEM Sensei, which is powered by SCM Dujo Rack. So you can upload any of your spend data or inventory data. It will do all the analysis by agents and tell you where you have to focus on either in terms of narrative reduction or freight reduction or spend reduction. Now the good news is since you’ve launched, I think we launched on 16th of April and so far, we’ve got 300 users. Most of the people who subscribe to us are paid user and the feedback is amazing.

(08:05):

SEM Dujo was basically a hobby project, but this is a proper startup build with the feedback of the customer. So now the feedback we are getting from users are continuously improving. For example, people want longer context window, they want search icons, they want to create SNOP that by just dropping their Excel spreadsheet, we can do all that. So super happy, super excited. Actually, I’m just sleeping five hours as I shouldn’t because. And we just launched a new tool which we call it RFP pack generator. Three questions and then at the end of 10 minutes, the amount of work you do in three weeks can be done in 20 minutes. Wow. Check it out. It’s amazing and we’re going to keep launching more features, more product. Super excited. Great feedback from folks. So check it out.

Scott Luton (08:48):

Outstanding. I’m telling y’all folks, didn’t I say earlier, Modisir has got so much going on driving innovation a lot of different ways. Folks, go check out Trisha Droplink, SCM Sensei AI.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (08:58):

Thank you, Tricia. I appreciate it.

Scott Luton (09:00):

You bet. Okay. One more thing before we bring on an outstanding guest here today, folks, that we’re talking about. We’ve got to talk more about the domestic freight market, right? Our Friends US Bank released their Q2 2026 freight payment index on Tuesday, August 4th. One of the key takeaways was that it revealed a freight market continuing to tighten, creating new challenges for shippers seeking greater clarity, aren’t we all, and confidence in their transportation strategies. Now, while shipment volumes remain soft, shipper spending rose sharply, as you can see here, as reduced capacity, higher spot rates, elevated fuel costs pushed transportation expenses higher. Now, one of my favorite parts about this report is the regional breakdowns, right? Regional results here reinforced just how uneven the current freight environment remains. And as we all know, understanding where capacity is tightening and how pricing is shifting can help shippers make more informed decisions and navigate market changes with greater certainty and greater success.

(09:58):

And one more thing, as we do each quarter with US Bank, we conducted a live stream review and the key takeaways from this index for Q2 2026. We had US Bank’s Bobby Holland, and then we had Dr. Jason Miller, Professor of Supply Chain Management at Michigan State University’s Eli Broad College of Business. You may see Dr. Miller across LinkedIn. He’s always sharing incredible data, why he continues to be one of our favorite guests, but we invite you to check out the published podcast replay of this discussion. It’s available on our US Bank Strategic Alliance leader page. And of course, you can also download the US Bank Freight Payment Index publications comes out each quarter and they’re full of actual insights. Access those at freight.usbank.com. All right, so Mudasir, we’ve got an outstanding B block coming up. We’re diving in some news developments, and then we got to C Block.

(10:48):

We’re going to talk more about automation, robotics, what’s changed and all. So I want to introduce, as you and I both have mentioned, a great guest joining us here on The Buzz powered by MFG Inc. Christine Bush is the director of the Robotic and Motion Center of Excellence at Schneider Electric, where she champions the future of industrial automation. Now her career is spanned application design, engineering management, OEM regional sales, and machine solutions leadership. Christine holds a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Kansas State University and remains active in the engineering community through organizations such as SWE, EEE, and ISA. Let’s welcome in Christine Bush with Schneider Electric. Hey, Christine, how you doing today?

Christine Bush (11:31):

I am well. Thank you for having me today.

Scott Luton (11:34):

You bet. Coming to us from the great state of North Carolina, great to see you. And me and Mutusir are ready to dive in on all kinds of stuff, but a little fun warmup question first, Mutusir and Christine. Now, my Atlanta Falcons and my Clemson Tigers aren’t having the strong start to the season that your Kansas State Wildcats are having, Christine. You’re three and 0. After the first three games, you just beat Tulane over the weekend. So I want to ask you this question, Christine, and I got one for you too, Mutusir. For folks that venture out to Manhattan, Kansas, beautiful Manhattan, Kansas for a football game or business or whatever, what’s one really good eats, one good restaurant they got to check out for to leave?

Christine Bush (12:16):

Great question. I love my days in Manhattan, Kansas when I was there working on my double E degree. I would say Rocketbelly Deli is a staple and it is actually still there from my days in Manhattan, but you can never go wrong with going down to Aggieville. There are all kinds of places to eat, partake in some beer, spirits, et cetera. So always head to Aggieville before and after the game.

Scott Luton (12:45):

Okay. Rocketbellies and Aggieville. Sounds like we got a two for there. I love it. All right. And Modesir, same question for you. Some folks may not know that you call Birmingham England Homes, a big city. I haven’t been there just yet, but I’m coming to see you soon. Modisir, for folks that venture out to Birmingham for business, pleasure, you name it, what’s one really good restaurant you’d recommend?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (13:08):

Birmingham is known as a curry town, right? So if you come here, there’s a road called Ladypool Road. It’s not the most nicest place to walk, but I can guarantee you the food quality and the food variety. You just need to be used to the spicy stuff. If you like spicy stuff, it’s the best place to go.

Scott Luton (13:25):

That sounds delicious. And yes, I like spicy foods. Christine, are you big into spicy foods?

Christine Bush (13:30):

I’m going to say I would have to find a place to tone it down. I can handle up to a certain degree of heat and then I’m like, “Oh, I’m out.”

Scott Luton (13:39):

Well, we’ll go enjoy the right level of spice and we’ll keep the conversation going with Christine and Mutusir. All right folks, a lot of good stuff. We got to dive into, gosh, we here for hours and hours. There’s so much going on across global business and global supply chain, but I want to start with this first article. We picked three here. I want to talk about the growing calls for a bit of a slowdown in AI development. Christina Musir, I’m going to try to unpack this at a high level and I want both of y’all to weigh in here. So as reported by the AP, some of the AI rivals have found some rare common ground. It’s a good thing. And that’s certainly turning a few heads. And while these industry leaders are calling for some sort of safeguards on AI, there are certainly a few obstacles that could get in the way, domestic global competition, profit considerations and motivations, and some politicians pushback and reluctance.

(14:28):

Now, I found this perspective interesting from Nick Reese, who they quoted in this article. He formerly was with the Department of Homeland Security and is now an adjunct professor at New York University. He said, “What if we considered success in AI the same way that we consider success for airlines on time and haven’t had a crash in who knows how long? We don’t tolerate commercial airline crashes, but we do tolerate significant AI failures.” Interesting. There are a variety of potential options that companies may look at based on how these conversations evolve. The AP says that the idea of utilizing and embedding some sort of external evaluators inside companies is perhaps the most well-received notion, but can they stay truly independent? At the same time, a couple of thoughts from a show that we had here just last week kind of still rings in my ears a bit.

(15:15):

One long-time retail leader told me that we can’t afford to slow down on AI given the problems that we’re trying to solve. Another long-time CPG leader told me that he thinks we could find a way to be safe and fast with a smart approach to regulation. So again, it’s all big conversations, tough to cover in a couple minutes, fascinating and very consequential topic. Christine, react to these conversations and these calls are taking place now.

Christine Bush (15:41):

I would have to agree with the CPG leader that you spoke about. I think there is a way to do it fast and safely, but I think everyone has to have a strategy on how they’re going to use artificial intelligence inside their organization, drive that definition of just what is fast and what is safe. If you don’t have a strategy when it comes to AI in your organization, I think you’re going to have to sit at the table and determine what that is for your organization, and then that will help us govern where we go, future state.

Scott Luton (16:13):

I think that’s very savvy perspective, Christine, and I’m kind of like what you imply, Mudasir, Christine shared. I’m not sure who the adult in the room needs to be, but we need one in here, I think. Mudasir, your thoughts?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (16:26):

I’ve got three things, and the third one would be a bit of conspiracy theory. So why this whole call to start with? Because what happened, there’s only two big frontier labs, if you want to call it, which is OpenAI and Entropic or ChatGPT and also Cloud. What happened was they made Agent, they are obsessed with AGI, which is basically autonomous general intelligence, and they let their agents lose. And one of the agents of OpenAI, they end up basically hacking into Hugging Face, which is again, another open, basically is also the open platform for the

Intro/Outro (17:00):

Open

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (17:00):

Large language model. Then the whole thing was a bit chaos, then right now NMedia end up buying for 12 point something billion, which is ridiculous, but I think they did it for the safety reasons anyway. The question is why it happens. So where is the internal safety protocols? Because think about it, all the models Frontier Labs they’re making is made their people. So why they can’t control it and somehow creating this myth that, okay, let the agent lose and they’re going to hire people upset. So that’s the situation we are dealing with. Now, if we move towards the safety part, that should be in place from the beginning. It’s pretty much like you would not release a drug without testing 10 years and making sure

Intro/Outro (17:38):

You’re

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (17:38):

Giving to it. Right now on your phone, you’ve got models which could be as lethal as anything. You can make biochemical weapon if you want, if you just know how to do it, God forbid. But the thing is that it should not be allowed at the first place. So that’s the second part. Now, the third part, as you said at the start, most of the leaders are agreeing to it. So as we know, Sam Ortman and Elon Musk, they hate each other. And basically the CEO of, what’s his name? Amario of Claude, he also doesn’t like Sam Artman. It sounds like not many people like Sam Artman of Opening Air. Anyway, somehow they end up agreeing to it. And it’s a political reason actually, is a protection reason to that because we know SpaceX went for a how many trillion dollar basically IPO, now Claude and OpenAir relying on it.

(18:25):

And they are very, very much threatened by the Chinese model. So I’m using Chinese models right now, deep sea and all that. And if you ask me, they’re as good as Frontier Model. So the only way they can protect their business model, which billions of dollars have been invested already or will be invested in is by asking basically politicians, “Can you make regulations so we don’t have to adopt the Chinese model?” So I see it. Interesting. It’s political angle to it. It’s a protection angle to it as well. Where was the whole safety thing when you let your agent lose and hang up, do the ugging face? So I have a sympathy, but not as a sympathy at the same time.

Scott Luton (19:03):

Mutuser, I think both of y’all raised a couple different elements and dynamics at play. And look, let’s face it, it’s not like tying your shoes. There’s a lot of different forces at play, a lot of different transparent and kind of hidden motivations as well. And it sounds like a little bit of Melrose place as well, Mutuser, as you were describing in some of the interpersonal stuff, but we’ll see where it goes from here. I appreciate both of y’all’s perspective on a really big topic. I want to move along to number two, a somewhat related story because according to CIO Dive, Gartner predicts 30% of workers that have been laid off to AI are going to need to be rehired by 2029. It’s just a couple years away. Hopefully, too bad it’s not a couple months away, but those rehires will be much more costly than they originally were.

(19:46):

According to Gartner research, they looked at one million plus layoffs just in 2025. Their takeaways really point to a key finding. Less than 1% of the layoffs were actually tied to AI-driven productivity gains. Gartner found that 17% of supposed AI layoffs in early 2025 were really business restructurings or strategic pivots. Companies including Klarna, Ford, IBM, they’ve already reversed or even reconsidered some AI related workforce cuts. I think it was the Wall Street Journal, many media outlets reported on the return of experienced professionals. I think it was at Ford. After they laid them off, they had to bring them back. And Accenture released a study that said fewer than 25% of organizations are seeing AI productivity gains. They’re not seeing those gains translate into measurable business value. So I don’t know, maybe when you add it all up, some of the key position here from Gartner is that companies got to focus more on AI augmenting people, not simply replacing them.

(20:49):

Or if you take the wrong approach, you really risk losing incredibly valuable skills and institutional knowledge. So there’s a lot going on here. Christine, weigh in on this story, on the research, on the projections, your thoughts here.

Christine Bush (21:02):

From my opinion, I think initially when AI tools became available to organizations, we jumped in with both feet. They can help us with financial calculations, even some of the HR functionality that we have inside our own organization. But when it really comes to the engineering and manufacturing aspects, can it help enhance bringing data to the forefront so we can make more informed decisions? Absolutely yes. But can it replace the engineers and maintenance techs and operators on the line? Absolutely not, because there’s so much inherent value that these people make inside our organizations that I think we need to be cognizant that these tools need to enhance people, not replace people. Some aspects we can do more with an artificial intelligence tool, but again, the people aspect of it, I fully disagree. We need to empower them, not take them away.

Scott Luton (22:05):

Good stuff, Christine. Allright, Mudasir, your thoughts in the story.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (22:08):

So in 26th February, 2026, there was an article in Financial Times where the CEO of Microsoft AI, he said 90% of the white collar jobs will be redundant in 18 months time. So that’s that claim. And what happened was that most of the big companies, you name few, and also the tech companies like Microsoft or Meta, and basically they’re off 10,000 people. Now what happened was they end up hiring them back because even though Claude Code or basically other tools like them, CodeX, et cetera, they can code, but they don’t know how to basically apply the code in the real life.

Intro/Outro (22:48):

What

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (22:48):

I call this is the context of it. So anybody who’s using AI can automate the workflow, but if the agents don’t have the context of the vertical like oil and gas or pharma or electrical, they’re not going to get the required outcome. So keep that outcome part in mind, but you use the right word called augmentation. AI is basically implemented or should be implemented in three ways or should be the. Actually, I’m giving a lecture in Mexico, which is around the same line, AI skills in the age of AI. So what I’m saying to people is this rock, crawl, run approach. Within that I’m saying use AI as a supporting tool, then the augmentation tool, don’t go autonomous. This autonomous supply chain is a Mickey Mouse concept. Given we have so much changes, it started with five different disruptions, right? No agent’s got no chance making decisions on that.

(23:40):

You need human intellect. So the studies you have found are very valid, very accurate. It will be like this because the human needs to build context to make decisions.

Scott Luton (23:50):

I think I can think of a short list of other things where the banner says X, Y, Z. The banner says AI is innovating and delivering all these gains. We don’t need all these people. However, when you look closely, and I think one of the most valuable parts of this story that we just summarized from CIO Dive, when you look closely, conversations here about what’s really going on are these pivots and these strategic redirections. I’m not taking anything away from all the unlock that AI is delivering in the modern landscape, but as both of y’all suggest, humans still make so much of global supply chain happen each and every day. While it’s an exciting time here in the golden age supply chain tech, as the research points to leadership out there, we got to be really, really careful and deliberate in terms of when we roll out these various initiatives.

(24:39):

So a lot of good stuff. And Mudasir, hopes to come see you. I can’t wait to get the feedback from the crowd in Mexico you’re speaking to, Mudasir. But there is so much remarkable innovation taking place across industry. Look at one of the most consequential industries and sectors is automotive, and that’s where I’m going to go to our next story here. Talk about how one really big automotive company is making those major investments to modernize its operations. So get this, Toyota estimates factory modernization and automation could cost roughly $6.4 billion per year starting in 2028. That effort could include almost 400,000 robots, armies and armies are robots across the Toyota ecosystem, including its various group companies and major suppliers. That figure includes new installations and replacements, spanning traditional industrial robots, automated logistics, and both humanoid and non-humanoid robots. Toyota sees automation as a way to reduce costs, modernize aging factories, and Munosir is something you touched on earlier, address labor shortages, right?

(25:43):

Different generations want different things when it comes to work. But regardless, I think one of the bigger stories that all of this represents, automakers are increasingly looking at robotics not simply as a productivity play, but as that response to workforce constraints and the ever-changing economics of manufacturing. Now, Christine, arguably or maybe inarguably, this is kind of right up your alley. I’d love to know what you’re seeing, especially through the prism of this Toyota story.

Christine Bush (26:08):

What I am seeing as I meet with customers weekly, monthly, either face-to-face or at trade shows is this. The overwhelming demand to find skilled labor is becoming a challenge for us. There are many studies out there that say by the time 2030 rolls around, we will have more than three million open jobs looking for skilled workers. So

(26:32):

How are end users going to continue to make money for the organizations that they work for? And that all gets down to return on investment as well as year over year increased widgets going out the door. How do we improve the quality of that product going out the door and how do we become more efficient with those systems inside the plant? And so that is why organizations like Toyota are looking at advancements in higher levels of automation as well as implementing robotics. The second thing is when you apply this technology into the discrete manufacturing work zone is all of these robots need to be more human-esque. So there’s no longer just the discrete input saying, “Hey, pick the product here, lift it up and place it there.” There’s the addition of high levels of vision, smart end effector technology to pick up the product as the vision system says, “Hey, today I’m picking up a peach versus an apple,” and you know the tension to pick up a fruit differs based on

Intro/Outro (27:40):

The

Christine Bush (27:40):

Fruit that you’re picking up, and that happens across the entire manufacturing facility. So the cost of implementing automation and robotics is jumping quite high just due to the fact that we need to make it more people-esque. And to be more people-esque because we can’t find that labor pool to work on the lines, now we have to automate and tell the robot how to function and to make it more like a human.

(28:07):

I think the interesting thing through these next several years, probably the five-year mark is how much are humanoids, whether they’re walking, whether they are on some kind of autonomous cart moving through the facility, is how is that going to impact because that has everything brought into it, the touch, the feel. There are still some things that will not replace the worker because the more complex the move with the dexterity and the way our minds can react quickly, automation becomes very expensive. So there’s the fine mix of increasing as well as making sure that we’re continuing to educate people with these tools.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (28:51):

I have a question for Christine. I think robotics is one of the growing field of the future. It’s one of the growing engineering field. Actually, I’m encouraging my son, if you go take engineering, takes robotics. Take robotics, electrical engineering, or something to do with power because the world will actually going to need these two things. Now having said that, so let me give you a preface of my question. Jeff Bezos not retired. He basically left Amazon, was not CEO for some time. Now he has raised money, I don’t know, I think 25 something billion for a new startup which he’s a CEO called Prometheus and he is doubling down on a concept called artificial general engineer, artificial general engineer, so AGE. So his vision is to basically use artificial intelligence to promote, do the complex engineering work. So my question is following. Robotics, even I was in Germany 2008 and I’ve seen the almost fully automated warehouse picking parcels, weighing and shipping, even packing, touchless, not a new I’ve seen in pharmacies with the invent of AI, and you rightly said that the humanization of the robot, so that was not possible before the advent of the AI as we know it today.

(30:00):

LLMs who can think and act like humans and they can build context as we build, if you give the information. So how do you see the development of the robotics? And just to give you one more fact, I was seeing the podcast, it’s not a fact, it’s an opinion of Elon Musk. He said, I think he appeared into I think world economic forum somewhere and he claimed that in 10 years time they’re going to be one billion humanized robotics worker in manufacturing. He go in the world one billion. Imagine the population is there. So these big rich people are putting so much money in. They’re not stupid people. They’re super smart people. How you see that? I mean, as a person who’s on the ground, where do you see things going?

Christine Bush (30:40):

I still think it comes back to organizations having a strategy when it comes to the deployment of adding robots and what types of robots into their manufacturing processes versus the right mix of humans as well as these types of robots. I think it’s going to be a huge overhead specifically in automotive where their install base is quite large with robotics. So now they’re going to have to take a step back and say, “How do we make what we have, the install base smarter?” And in some instances, you’re not going to be able to do that. You’re going to have to pull back, implement different types of technology, and in this case, artificial intelligence on top of what they already have. And that’s going to be a huge task, which is why they’re probably going to be pulling full systems and replacing them with more advanced systems.

(31:33):

And then that brings in the economics. How can they afford to do it? And I would say the automotive industry may be moving at a faster pace than just other types of discrete manufacturing. They’re still trying to figure out, should I add robotics versus am I going to replace the current robotics that I have with even smarter systems? So I think there’s two different dynamics to look at. If you go into, I will say the CPG food and bev space, while they’re entertaining it and some companies are implementing it, they’re at a much slower pace.

Scott Luton (32:08):

So good, great question. And I really appreciate your response, Christine. And it deserves its own podcast series to continue just that one story, but it’s bringing it back full circle before we move on. And it goes back to the AI slowdown conversations and really hearing both of y’all, and especially Christine, you mentioned the three million potential openings by 2030. And of course that’s a projection, but still based on where we are, that makes a lot of sense where there’s a lot of credibility in that projection. And Mattley was the retail leader and she spent time at Target and Nike and she was one on this past week’s program that said we can’t afford to slow down. And when I think of big numbers like three million openings in critical industries such as manufacturing and elsewhere, we’re going to have to get that productivity and get that operational work from somewhere.

(32:53):

So it just rolls back into that slowdown conversation. Do we slow down? How slow do we go? So a lot of different dynamics there. All right, so let’s do this. We got a lot –

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (33:04):

Can I give you a quick fun idea for everybody?

Scott Luton (33:07):

Real quick.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (33:07):

Real

Scott Luton (33:08):

Quick.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (33:08):

So go and check out Microdoc by Hugging Face. It’s a robot, small robot, 399 powered by AI, is a good Christmas gift for anybody. That’s it.

Scott Luton (33:17):

Okay. I love little nuggets like that Ms. You and Christine both. All right, really quick. I want to share this before I move on. We got a lot more questions for Christine. I want to share this resource from our friends at MFG Inc. We’ve spoken a good bit today about the talented workforce and when it comes to that workforce advancing, many frontline leaders earn promotion by excelling in their job at their work. Leading effectively requires different skill sets at different times. MFG Inc’s frontline leadership certificate builds those vital skills online in about three hours of time on a weekly basis. You can learn more at mfg.inc/training. So go check that out. Let us know what you think. All right, so Mutuser and Christine, we’ve got a lot to get into here today as we come into the C block here on the buzz for September 21st.

(34:06):

Hard to believe it’s already in the second half of the month. And I want to start, Christine, kind of picking up where we left off with that Toyota story, the big picture, but also some of those themes we were just talking about. Manufacturers, they’re being asked to respond faster and faster to changing demand while simultaneously improving productivity and cost efficiencies, you name it. In your view, how are robotics and AI changing what’s possible when it comes to building a more flexible and responsive manufacturing operation?

Christine Bush (34:35):

I think it takes a lot of thought around what you’re doing today when it comes to your discrete manufacturing processes. And when you add higher levels of automation and robotics, I think you have to think about how am I going to bring this in and have it become part of the recipe, don’t have it a static function. And so what I mean by that is today as a consumer, we’re changing our minds. Today I may want a little four ounce soda because I want a hit of that Coca-Cola, but yet I’m on a diet. And then after January rolls through, I give up the idea of a diet and I want the whole 16 ounce bottle. So how do we bring robotics into the solution? And again, I’m going to use a beverage example where instead of shutting down the line and doing a tool change out to go from the four ounce can to the 12 ounce can, to the 16 ounce bottle to the one liter and two liter bottles, where are we sitting down thinking through how does a robot become part of the recipe so that I am not losing multiple hours a day doing tool change out just to fill a different size can or bottle with the same liquid that was manufactured upstream of the bottling or canning process?

(35:51):

And again, I think we need to take and make sure that as we design, we’re modeling it into a recipe so that we’re not trying to take a recipe and pigeonhole it into hard installed systems that are inflexible. So we need to look at it holistically with physically, what can the robot do? And then through tools, how can we make it smarter through the recipe aspect?

Scott Luton (36:17):

Christine, I like it. And Muda Ser, as she shared that, Amanda loves to cook on Sundays, right? That’s one of her favorite things. And she made one of our son’s favorite desserts for his birthday over the weekend, and that’s like this chocolate chip cookie pie. And picking up on the recipe theme, Muda Sir, Amanda didn’t, as she was cooking, just open up the cabinets and see what was in there. She had our game plan together, had all the resources and everything that was going in that recipe, and then turned out a delicious product. And that’s kind of one of the things I’m hearing from Christine rather than sprinkling this at the last minute and oh, be surprised with this, let’s throw that in there. You never know what you end up with. But Muda Ser, what’d you hear there from Christine?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (37:00):

I certainly agree. The basics of engineering, the system design approach, the system thinking. If you adopt this from the beginning and then want to achieve the end goal, of course the other factors like volume economic factors play the part, but basically I just certainly agree with what Christina said, nothing more to add.

Scott Luton (37:18):

Okay. Nothing more to add. By the way, that chocolate chip pie was delicious, Christine and Muda Ser, I might have had too many slices. All right, so I want to keep driving and I want to talk about automation use cases. And Christine, I bet you talk about this all the time, but based on everything you’ve shared already, where else are you seeing manufacturers generate the most meaningful value from robotics, AI, and even connected technologies? What else? Maybe something you haven’t shared yet, Christine?

Christine Bush (37:44):

I’m going to take it into the engineering level and I’m going to run with something that Mudiser commented on earlier, I think in the A block, which is taking something that may have taken us weeks to do and bringing it down to 20, 30 minutes worth of engineering effort. And because we have a shortage of skilled labor, and I think inside the controls and automation engineering discipline, I think we need to empower our engineers more with the artificial and intelligence tools that we have with code enhancements, taking a step back from traditional PLC control to PC-based control. And again, how Claude and other AI tools can help us code more efficiently. Just last week we had our country president in our Raleigh hub and one of my engineers was talking to her about implementing a cobot into a PC-based control. And she asked, “How long would it traditionally take you?” And he said, “Probably right around three weeks.

(38:49):

And with the enhancement of the tools that we had today, it took my effort down to 30 minutes.” Now he had a baseline of engineering experience, so it can be that fast, but it’s also a learning tool for new controls engineers coming into the industry to learn from this technology that we have.

Scott Luton (39:09):

Christina, I love that example. And Muda Ser, I’m telling you, you jump in, you share, you give us all these thoughts to ponder and it connects dots and stuff. What’d you hear there? I

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (39:19):

Have a quick question on this. You can overrule me. I know you’re the host. You have not used the word IOT yet. I’m surprised you have not. So you are right from go from PLC based to computer based. Totally agree. I’m glad you said that. I think the biggest opportunity we are missing is this machines talking to machines. So what’s your view here in the context of robotics? And are you working on something exciting in this area?

Christine Bush (39:42):

I think the end users that we work with and the OEMs that we support, we’re working with in an IOT way. But the biggest obstacle that we have with IOT is, in my opinion, when 4.0 came around is it kind of exaggerated the gap between IT and OT a little bit while it was supposed to bring it together. But I think we still have the mindset is OT going to cause an issue on the IT side of the business and just vice versa, is IT going to cause me an issue inside my operational process because it’s asking for data. So I think the one bridge that we really need to define is just what is cybersecurity? What is that DMZ zone when it comes to IT to OT and OT to IT?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (40:34):

Yeah, please allow me to comment on this. So the way I’m an engineer, but I’m not smart, not a practicing engine like you, but my basic engineering knowledge tells me that. So if you think about the example of BluRay Infrared, so one platform wins eventually, BluRay wins. If you think about API versus MCP, right? So MCP, which is model context protocol started by Plot has become the industry standard for agents talking to agents. What I see the problem with IoT always have been, they haven’t agreed on a basic platform or technology for machines to talk. I think that they, the industry will agree, maybe Schneider can come up with one and get everybody agreed. I think the development would be really fast.

Christine Bush (41:11):

I think that’s where open software defined architectures come into play, and that is an area that Schneider is making a lot of investment just due to the fact that we want IT to feel comfortable in the operational space and vice versa, there’s the skill building on the operational side to move away from those traditional IEC languages like ladder and step into a world where we’re speaking a common language and we haven’t had that. And so with open software defined automation, that’s where these two worlds are going to converge. And some of my friends and I have talked about it where the conventional ladder logic programmer inside many discrete manufacturing facilities, do we have a space for that today? Because in order for that convergence between IT and OT to occur, we have to speak that common language. So I’m going to agree with you on that, but I think the future is going to look different than what it

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (42:07):

Is today.

Christine Bush (42:07):

I’ll get

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (42:07):

You on my podcast, The Supply Engine Show. We got to talk on this. I’ll be in touch.

Scott Luton (42:11):

Outstanding. Outstanding. I’m losing control, folks. I’m losing control. Christine and Mudasir. Sorry,

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (42:17):

Sorry. Sory.

Scott Luton (42:18):

No, no, no, no, please don’t. This is really good stuff and I really appreciate y’all’s back and forth. It reminds me your comments, Mutuser, about a little different example, but same vein, beta versus VCR. That is a fascinating bit of business history that borrows on some of these themes. Okay. I want to circle back on the workforce thing, but I think y’all both have really, and Christine especially, you’ve mentioned a couple different examples. I want to talk about, in a little bit of time we got left, about scaling automation projects. One of the things we’ve been referencing a lot in the last few weeks is pilot fatigue because there’s so many pilots out across industry, AI pilots, technology pilots, you name it. In your view, Christine, in your experience and what you’re doing at Schneider Electric, what separates organizations that are successfully scaling automation projects and initiatives across enterprise from those that remain stuck in pilot mode?

Christine Bush (43:09):

I think the biggest difference between piloting and being able to scale is to make sure that you include everyone. If you are trying to push these tools at one layer across the entire organization, I see a world where you’re going to fail and probably fail fast because if you don’t have the operators involved, if you don’t have the maintenance techs involved, if you don’t have the CEO and the executive vice presidents all sitting at the tool and working toward a simple goal for your organization, that’s where the fail fast happens because you don’t know how to scale. And to scale means you have to be successful across all layers of your organization. So if you’re overlooking the operator, if you’re overlooking the maintenance tech, if you’re overlooking HR and you’re making a decision for your organization, you don’t have buy-in at all levels. So get buy-in at all levels.

Scott Luton (44:05):

I think it’s billion dollar advice. Mudasir, how would you react to that from Christine?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (44:09):

For the first time, actually I’m going to disagree

(44:15):

With a lot of respect. And I can give this example of Amazon and two Pizza Theory and it’s there for. So there’s certain companies who are super good in innovating, Amazon being one, gone from an e-commerce to a biggest automated warehouse system. So their whole culture is bagged on. You have to have a small team, agile team who can take a very novel concept, which we are all trying to do here, and adopt it in a certain segment of the business, productionize it so you can see the business how it’s working. And I’ve learned this basically in my own experience. I was in Bridgestone. I was tasked to implement a B2B platform on 54 countries. And if I would’ve involved everybody’s stakeholder shop floor, I would never able to do finishing because everybody have their own opinion and everybody knows their job better than everybody else.

(45:03):

So the whole idea was, so this term of MVP, minimum viable product, everybody knows, but what people don’t talk about, which I want to talk more, is the minimum viable team that from one person in from shop floor, one quality guy, one engineer, maybe one executive, one finance guy, put this whole team together who can make that, as Scott said at the start, there’s basically a lot of demo freak or the prototype freak going on because they’re not moving to production. They’re not scaling because the reason they’re not scaling, because it’s not getting to the point to see the value. So if you have a small team, so MVP, which is minimum viable product combined by minimum viable team, MBT, if you want to call it, point on basically in this podcast, I think that’s the only way you can move to production. Otherwise, you keep doing demos, you keep doing pilots, it’s never going to production.

(45:53):

All

Scott Luton (45:53):

Right, so Christine,

Christine Bush (45:54):

Quick response to that. Quick response. I would say I agree. I mean, we don’t need 45 people on a team. I do think it has to be small and diverse, but depending on the data and how the data is, what’s the word I’m looking for, contextualized from the operator across the full spectrum, if you don’t have it from the operator’s point of view to the data technician on how to understand what that data represents, are you really truly going to be able to scale in your facility?

Scott Luton (46:28):

Okay.

Christine Bush (46:28):

So I’m going to agree and disagree.

Scott Luton (46:31):

Hey, I appreciate that. And I love how y’all both very thoughtfully articulated your position. And of course there’s so much more dialogue to come. And you know what? Rarely in this world we all live in is there one only precise way, right? So I really wish I was – That’s the

Christine Bush (46:47):

Hard part. There is not one way.

Scott Luton (46:49):

That is probably. Yeah, that’s right. It’s where the rub lies, right? All right. So for the sake of time, we are going to have a fast and furious finish on this thought-provoking edition of the buzz. I’m really appreciative of Christina Mudasier being here with us today. T-squared goes back to those chocolate chip cookies. He says, “You may as well have Amanda put out the recipe because I’m intrigued even with the supply chain management context.” Well, we’ll see if Amanda shares that recipe. It might be a family secret. We’ll see. All right, let’s do this. So actually, Mutuser and Christine both shared a couple resources. I want to share one since we were talking a lot about robotics. I was checking out this ebook last week and I wanted to share, I enjoyed it. I wanted to share it with all y’all out there. Physical AI explained in seven robots from our friends at Celonis.

(47:36):

And in particular, you can’t really see, I should have blown this up, but they walked through each of these seven robots, Mutuser and Christine, and you’ll see there in fiction, they give an example of each of these robots. And I love that because somebody like Wally, who has in here seen Wally like 27 times, right?

Christine Bush (47:53):

Absolutely.

Scott Luton (47:55):

And Christine, this goes back. You see the image there that the finger and the pressure that you’re talking about with the fruits and stuff, man, it’s been challenging for industry to figure out a way of how can we get robots to handle our precious peaches without bruising them all, but they’re getting it done. But anyway, folks, go check out that ebook. Trisha’s dropped a link right there. She’s also dropped a link to MFG Inc. Leadership Training. Go check that out. And I want to make sure, Mutuser and Christine, we make sure folks and I connect with both of y’all. So let’s start with Christine. Christine Bush at Schneider Electric doing big things in automation and a whole bunch more. Christine, how can folks connect with you on anything you mentioned here today?

Christine Bush (48:36):

Yeah, certainly. I welcome anybody to be able to reach out to me. My email is pretty simple. It’s my first name dot last name@se.com. So christine.bush@se.com, SE Schneider Electric.

Scott Luton (48:51):

Outstanding. And I bet Christine, as I shared maybe on the front end, maybe we’re in the green room, we were both at MODEX last year. Are you going to be at ProMat in Chicago next year?

Christine Bush (49:01):

We will certainly be there. I just don’t know what capacity. We’re working on ProMat as we speak.

Scott Luton (49:08):

Awesome. Well, I hope to see you there along with our 50,000 closest friends are dropping – Absolutely. To Schneider Electric, but I really enjoyed your perspective. And Modes, the Always Electric, Dr. Mudaser Ahmed. I really appreciate you stopping out here on the buzz and co-hosting with me. You’ve got a lot going on too. What’s the easiest way for folks to connect with you and your team on anything you’ve shared here at Mudasir?

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (49:31):

Just LinkedIn or just Google my name, follow me on social media, Instagram, TikTok is my ID@modhesidism. DM, I’ll be in touch. I don’t give my emails because I got. One thing I’m not really good in reading on time is basically email. So best way, LinkedIn.

Intro/Outro (49:46):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (49:47):

Fair enough. But can we all agree at this as we start to wrap? Can we all, at least my opinion is I hope that LinkedIn reinvigorates its email apparatus because I can tell you I lose so much in the email. I’m hoping that they can maybe make it more robust or something. We’ll see. I’ll leave it to the smart people like Christine and Mudasir to figure that kind of stuff out. But Trisha did drop Mudasir’s LinkedIn folks. Go follow him, connect with him, connect on anything that he’s mentioned here today, including some of the tools and resources that he and the team over at SCM Dojo are helping many, many organizations with. Okay, what a great conversation, fast moving. Christine and Mudasir, we talked about some really big topics and somehow we did so right at an hour. I don’t know how we did that, but I want to thank y’all.

(50:36):

Christine Bush with Schneider Electric. Christine, thank you so much for being here and hope to have you back soon.

Christine Bush (50:41):

Thank you so much for having me.

Scott Luton (50:43):

And my outstanding co-host here today, Dr. Mudasir Ahmed with SCM Dojo. I tell you, Mudasir, I love your style and I love how you get those questions in because it takes our conversation and new places. Thanks so much for being here, my friend.

Dr. Muddassir Ahmed (50:56):

No, thank you for having me. Always love coming to the bus. I think you and the team are doing great job and just keep shining. Keep up the good work. Amazing job.

Scott Luton (51:03):

I really appreciate that. The whole team does. We stand on the shoulders of giants, don’t we? Also, big thanks to our friends at MFG Inc. Big thanks to Amanda and Trisha, those said giants all behind the scenes. And most importantly, big thanks to our global audience for being here with us. I know we couldn’t hit everybody’s comment or question here today, but I encourage y’all go connect, go follow, go keep the dialogue going with Christine and Mudasir. And you know you got homework, right? Now homework’s not popular these days. And evidently with my three kids, it’s not very prevalent these days. Man, they come home on Friday afternoons. They got no homework. I used to come home with seven things. Anyway, folks, take one thing you heard here from Christine and Muda Seer and put it into practice. Do something with it. These not words.

(51:44):

That’s how we’re going to keep transforming global supply chain. With all that said, on behalf of the Supply Chain Now team, Scott Lewton challenge you to do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. We’ll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain. Thanks, Bob.

Intro/Outro (51:57):

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