There are all kinds of leaders in the world, and many situations crying out for leadership. In the rarest of cases, the ideal leader is drawn to an area of need – sometimes by circumstances beyond their control. When this happens, the opportunity for change is powerful and tangible and creates a momentum that pulls others in.

In this Supply Chain Now interview, co-hosts Scott Luton and Kelly Barner welcome back Tim Nelson, co-founder and CEO of Hope for Justice and Slave-Free Alliance. Tim tried to be a stockbroker and then he tried to be in technology, but he was always drawn back to a place where he could have a scalable human impact. Hope for Justice is the philanthropy partner for the 2022 Supply Chain and Procurement Awards, creating an opportunity for all procurement and supply chain professionals to learn and act in the fight to end human trafficking and modern slavery.

During this conversation they discuss:

• What has more of an effect on Tim’s thinking – the success stories told by Hope for Justice or the statistics that show just how much more work there is to be done
• Why organizations from Supply Chain Now to Gartner are turning their focus to the fight against human trafficking and modern slavery
• The opportunities and qualifications that make procurement and supply chain professionals the best-suited warriors for this particular human rights battle

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and introduc stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now,

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton and Kelly Barner with you here on supply chain. Now, welcome to today’s show Kelly, how you doing?

Kelly Barner (00:40):

I’m doing great. Scott, glad to be here.

Scott Luton (00:42):

I am so happy that you’re here and I’m really happy that our guest is here because we we’re we’re let’s face it. We’re head of our heels with the mission they’re on the good work they’re doing, and we’re delighted to partner and collaborate with them. So who am I talking about? Well, we’re talking about hope for justice, right? Who’s on a mission to eradicate modern slavery and human trafficking from the face of the planet. Kelly should be a really interesting discussion, right? Based

Kelly Barner (01:08):

On the other conversations with Tim. Absolutely.

Scott Luton (01:10):

<laugh> so who you’re alluding to is our guest the wonder only Tim Nelson, CEO of hope for justice, Tim, how you doing? I’m

Tim Nelson (01:19):

Doing really well, so, so good to see you both and to be with you

Scott Luton (01:23):

Today. Well, we are delighted, uh, and you know, Kelly and I, we we’ve seen you in action a lot since the last time you appeared with us when you blew our socks off, let’s face it, uh, uh, the knowledge that you brought the scope of this immense challenge that we had, this travesty, uh, Travis DS and that Moham an Ali quote that we almost kind of, we, we wrapped with, I’d be surprised if folks weren’t jumping off our livestream and going to do something because of how you were inspiring him, Tim.

Tim Nelson (01:53):

So kind, I really appreciate you saying that. I think the, the goal of everyone who’s in this mission is just to try and make a difference. And, and I really appreciate you saying that. And you know, every, every time I get the privilege to, to say anything about the work that we’re doing, um, it’s a real honor, but, um, the fact that you would be so kind is to, to say that is real, real, real privilege to me. So

Scott Luton (02:14):

Thank you. You bet. Well, Kelly, as, as, uh, we appreciate that and you know, we, we talked for 11, I guess, but as you, we not, you and I both know it’s about D deeds, not words, right? Deeds, not words. So before. Absolutely. So, so speak to that for a quick second, before we get into the Tim Nelson story, cause it’s about taking action, right?

Kelly Barner (02:33):

This is one of the things, and, and actually as part of the, uh, supply chain of procurement awards, we’ve been talking an awful lot about what do we need to know so that we can take the right actions? The, this isn’t just about talking a good game. It’s not just about having the right ideas. It really is about how we take all of that. So that in our personal lives and in the work that we do, especially for supply chain of procurement professionals, we are in fact coming through on those words and following up with our deeds and making a

Scott Luton (03:00):

Difference. Agreed, agreed, well said Kelly Barner. So let’s find out more about Tim Nelson and the live stream that you joined as Tim. We had to kind of based on time and we had to kind of get to the mission at hand and get to the organization and challenges. We didn’t get a good chance to under better understand the Tim Nelson story. So let’s get to know you better. Let’s start with, uh, the question we always love, love to start with where’d you grow up and give us some anecdotes around your upbringing.

Tim Nelson (03:27):

Yeah, no amazing. Um, so you can probably tell for anybody who’s not heard me before. Um, I, I’m not English. Um, I come from Northern Ireland and the, the place I grew up is a little is called inch and it’s in south down. So to give you your geography lesson for today, it’s about 25 miles south of Belfast. Okay. Um, and it is three miles away from the very first church in Ireland, um, in a place called Saul that St. Patrick built, uh, back in the day, the St.

Scott Luton (03:58):

Patrick, is that right?

Tim Nelson (03:59):

Yeah. Cuz you know, St Patrick days coming up in March and a lot of people think about, you know, the, the, the color green shamrocks and, um, I’m certainly Diaz’s teams to taking over a lot of the, the, the nature of what that day is. But, but actually, you know, I find out so much since growing up there that that actually simp Patrick was actually track to Ireland and managed to escape my gosh. And then when he escaped, apparently God called him to, to come back and bring the message of the gospel. And, and in the dark ages that the church was, was only kept alive in Ireland. That then was then exported all over the world. So for me, growing up in that area, you can imagine that there a real sense of culture and history there’s, um, uh, you know, I grew up at a difficult time at the time of the conflict, um, that was going on in Northern Ireland.

Tim Nelson (04:50):

And my dad was a, uh, ran a painter and decorating firm, um, employed a, a significant number of men, painting hospitals and schools. But my mom was principal pride would secretary to the, the, the head of the Northern Irish office, which in legals, because she, she was the assistant to the person who was heading up the country’s response and, and kind of that put us at a place of risk and, and threat. So my mother and father built the house that we’re in, but there was a, a car bomb that was planted just outside our house before the house was built. So, you know, I, I went to school in Belfast, which is a, a 25 mile trip each way for my secondary school and had to walk past, you know, the most bond hotel in Europe and, you know, controlled explosions going off and, and shootings and various things going on and a really, really crazy time, but amazing time were you get to see the worst of humanity, but the best of humanity at the same time. So, but, but I had real privilege and I was the first person in my family, um, to, to go to the school. I did a, a really quite privileged school in, in Belfast, but that was only because, um, my mom and dad had impressed upon me the importance of education. And, um, because my mom was more politically aware. We, we all became more politically aware and I had, um, three siblings. Um, they all ended up going into law, all ended up lawyers, marrying lawyers,

Scott Luton (06:13):

Don’t mess with the Nelson family folks. I’ll

Tim Nelson (06:16):

Tell you that coming for you. No. Um, the, the debates that we would’ve had at home were, were absolutely amazing, but I, I kind of really got my worldview kind of going, I can remember one time and, and kind of, I don’t know how you are with your kids in terms of what you would let them do. I think I, because of my knowledge of what the world is, I’m, I’m probably a little bit more restrictive than some might be, but my parents were quite LA fair about that. And, um, they let me go at the age of 15 to, uh, Malaysia and Australia for six months on my own.

Scott Luton (06:48):

Wow. By

Tim Nelson (06:49):

Yourself. Wow. By myself. And, um, you know, some funny, like I could talk for stories on end on that one, but I was on the full, like to Malaysia and I’d fallen asleep and the chap next to me, they were coming around, you know, chicken or beef because they always have those options for you. And, um, oh, and what would your son like? And he’s like, he’s not my son. And then they’re like, you know, you’re not a lie to actually be on a plane if you’re under 16 on your own. No. Who knew that there would have been asked. So, and I find myself of transiting through Qala lump airport, and they had to put me in first class lunch and have someone chap in me. And I, I, I rang my mom and I’m saying like, I’m in Qala Lumpur, I’m just watching sky news have just made me the boomy breakfast and I’m going for a shower in a bit.

Tim Nelson (07:33):

And my mom was just like, what the heck you do? <laugh> so, no, just, just kind of that worldview, that complete sense of you can do anything in the world. And, and the following year after I did that trip, I, I also did a really impactful trip with a group of friends. We went out to, uh, Venezuela, Guyana, and Brazil, and did some community projects in the Canam Highlands. And I did my, um, various venture awards that I did, um, at that time, but we were away for, or three months and did some amazing projects. And it just honestly set a really grinding for me of an understanding of maybe from a very small place in Northern Ireland, but actually you can impact the world through just being passionate about making a difference. All right.

Scott Luton (08:13):

So you there’s so much that I wanna follow up on there, but for the sake of time, I’m gonna toss it over to Kelly. And just a second, because we wanna explore a little more about that worldview and of course what you’re doing now, but, but one quick follow up question to be exposed. And, and as, as you put it to parents have that loss say affair, uh, kind of point of view, and just empowered you to, um, kind of pursue your passions at an early age, you know, 15 traveling by yourself abroad. And then later to Venezuela, it seems like to me, you had a greater appreciation at an earlier age for kind of the global ecosystem, the global community global village that exists. Did that really play a part in, I mean, and now of course the mission that hope justice is leading is certainly global. Was that a, was that a really important, uh, experience at an early age for

Tim Nelson (09:03):

You? I think it was absolutely pivotal. You know, Kelly, you, you spoke about words and actions and we had this phrase when we grew up that the lesson you may deliver maybe wise and true, but I prefer to learn my lesson by observing what you do. And the more that you get to go across the world and you see what people are doing, you realize that talk is cheap, but it’s the actions that are motivating. And you get to see in, in the pur of communities, what people can do, you know, you know, today we’re, we’re talking about, uh, you know, supply chains and we’re talking about procurement and we’re talking about what they’re doing, but, but actually people quite often see barriers to things. Yeah. But in, in communities where barriers, you, you don’t have the luxury to see barriers. You’ve got to find a way.

Tim Nelson (09:48):

And, you know, even, even we we’ve been talking earlier about the, the supply procurement awards and, and people putting forward nominate, and I kinda look at it and go, quite often, people go, well, ah, there’s a barrier to, I’ve gotta fill in a form or I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta get some knowledge, uh, as to what we need to do or how, what, what does this mean for us as business? Quite often, people can see the barrier and be repelled by it. But what you realize is the successful entrepreneurs, the successful businesses are that they do not see, they see those as doors and opportunities that other people can be on the outside of. So I think, I think for me, you see it all over the world, but you get to realize that that quite often, what, what differentiates between those businesses that are, are kind of good or those businesses that are average is whether or not you’ve got a to you’ll find a way.

Tim Nelson (10:39):

Right. And, and, and it, on the, you know, if you’re, if you’re faced with global procurement problem and you can’t get it from this place, so you can’t get it in time, what will you do? You find a way? And I think the, the, the awards and everything that they embody from me is all around recognizing who is doing well at this. And quite often, people can hear that, you know, you know, I don’t want to prefer myself. I don’t wanna big myself up, but I think it’s really important for people to understand people wanna buy from a company that actually holds this up as really important.

Scott Luton (11:11):

Agreed, agreed. Of course, the awards you’re referring to the 20, 22 supply chain and criminal awards. We’re gonna talk about that a little bit later in the conversation, right? So Kelly, I’ve been, hoing all the interview questions, uh, a little tip of the hat to our barbecue discussion. We were talking pre show, all right, where are we going next, Kelly.

Kelly Barner (11:27):

So actually think we’re gonna transition from that world view, Tim, that you grew up with, and it’s clearly a deep ethic. That’s part of who you are. How did you carry that world view and those experiences into the roles that you held early in your career?

Tim Nelson (11:43):

Yeah. I mean, I, I had this crazy experience when I went to university, so I thought I was gonna go and be a stock broker. The rest of my family wanted to be lawyers. I thought, well, let’s be a stock broker. And so I went to study technology with a view to understanding technology and management and how I could look and focus on high tech companies. And, um, whilst I was there and getting that understanding, I, I got heavily involved in, in community work. And, and what would make a difference in the community to help the per the needy, the weak in the margin, in the area that we were in. And, um, much to my parents’ amusement. I, I turned down job offers with some really high profile, um, stockbrokers in London or in New York. And, and it kind of really ships your thinking when, um, the company I would’ve worked for in, in London, uh, if I’d taken that job bust in, in the 2001 crash and had I been and taken the job in Manhattan, I would’ve been in the twin towers when they went down.

Tim Nelson (12:41):

Wow. And I think, I think that kind of mindset of the choices you make, not the chances you take determine your destiny. And I think off the back of that, it, it kind of propels you to want do more. So I’m, I’m staying in the, the place that I’m, I’m, I’ve been to university I’m, I’m looking at what I can do. And, uh, I ended up working for whilst I was at university to support myself, um, a, a, a, a particular bank and a specific division of the bank that we’re working with kind of business individuals, commercial clients. And it was a telephone based service while I was at university to help fund myself on the way through. And when I was finished, I thought, well, why don’t I apply to the bank and see if they’ve got any jobs, because I’ve turned on these other jobs.

Tim Nelson (13:23):

And my mom and dad are gonna go crazy if I don’t end up with something <laugh>. And, um, I applied to work as a, a business manager for a retail bank, and, um, normally have to go through kind of three to five years of graduate training to get that level or grown up with 20 years experience in the bank. But they put me through on the test for that role. And because I’d been got all this information while I was at university, I knew exactly what they wanted to sell and how they needed to sell it. So they put me into that role and I was the youngest bank manager in the UK. And, um, in my first year I finished,

Scott Luton (13:56):

Wait, hang on sec, hang on a sec. We got it. We gotta clarify that. The, you, you said the youngest bank manager in all the UK.

Tim Nelson (14:03):

Yep. I was 21. Uh, just turned 21 in the August. And in September I got, I got my first managerial post. So if you can imagine everyone in the bank hits me because, uh, because, because I’m the guy who’s just come in and Johnny come lately, who is this person? I was gonna say, the kid they’ll hate you cuz you’re the kid. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. But what, what I discovered was the bank would, let me take people out for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on the bank’s tab. And I could go and see any sporting event. I could go and see any music event as long as I brought customer with me. So I thought, well, nice. Why didn’t your customers become your friends and go with you? Cuz like we talked about barbecue. Like for me, if I can go and take people out for, for a great meal and, and basically get to know them, build a relationship.

Tim Nelson (14:49):

I think that was pivotal for me in understanding that relationship is the oil that business runs on. And in my first year I finished in the bank, I finished third for income generation. So off the back of that, that calls quite a bit of a stir. As you can imagine, new guy coming in and, and ended up with this kind of results. So they given me, they gave me a promotion to a senior manager. So at that stage I’m working, withm more significant clients. I’m helping them with, with borrowing. I’m helping them understand how they can grow and develop business, how they can, they, they can take the technological advancement and be able to merge and, and bring that in. And I was starting to pair businesses up that were in my portfolio so they could do projects together. Cuz I was like, I know you, I know you we’ve been out to how about you come out to the, the soft and we, we talk about this and how you can work together. And they loved it. Everybody loved it because I was trying to get, I, I wasn’t in it for me. I was in it for what would do the best for them.

Scott Luton (15:40):

Hey Kelly. Uh, yeah. Did you hear that? T-shirt is that Tim shared a moment ago? Relationships are the oil that powers business forward that almost just paints like a, a Ferrari right? For someone yeah. Someone that really they’re good at, at building strong sturdy trust filled relationships. Right?

Kelly Barner (15:59):

I thought you were gonna point out the soccer comment. Now I have to admit Scott knows, uh, Phil Bidens that I work with closely at art of procurement is a huge, I will say football fan because I’ve been trained. I’ve worked with him for years and years. A and I’m thinking okay with the accent, I don’t think you’re allowed to say soccer. <laugh> do I get to like qualify? Are you translating for us?

Tim Nelson (16:20):

I, I, I feel like I do that effort. You, when I’m, I’m speaking to anyone on your side of the pond, I end up having, uh, you know, have to interpret, I don’t have to do sign language. I think you’re okay with that. But uh, I think in terms of just kind of clarification like the premier league or right, you know, some of the, the greater teams and, and our head office is in Manchester. So I grew up in Northern Ireland and you really, we either supported Manchester United or you supported Liverpool. Liverpool were winning everything when I was growing up. So I supported Manchester United and then the premier league came and, and the, kind of the, the rest of city street. But I, I think the, the businesses that I was working with, like I’m still in contact with them kind of 20 plus years now on because I built solid friendships with them.

Tim Nelson (17:03):

I wanted what was best for them. And actually it was one of my, my, my kind of close friends from that perspective that invited me to even get to know that what business would look like in the states and invited me to sit as an advisor to an offshore investment trust. He was running in America. Who’s gonna pull together 200 million to invest in high tech businesses and really liked what I was saying around understanding the profitability of a business, understanding the technological advancement. And it was on that trip that I had an night spare in Los Angeles and invited out for dinner and a friend who worked for children’s charity asked me if he could bring a friend along and that friend and that dinner changed my entire life.

Kelly Barner (17:44):

I was gonna say, and this is where your journey meets hope for

Tim Nelson (17:48):

Justice. Absolutely. Tell us a little bit more about that dinner. Yeah. So it was a good dinner. Um, I, I don’t wanna lie. Y in America, in comparative terms, there are things that people might say that UK is good for like castles and history and stuff, but, but, um, but, but dinners and, and, and, and eating out, you got that nailed. I think you, you, you, you should at least win some awards for that. Um <laugh> but, but when, when we went for dinner, um, this guy was on the phone to condo Lisa Rice, who was, um, working for the Bush administration at the time. And so far away from everything I’m involved in at that time. And he was arguing about the dime grading of India on the human trafficking register. Never heard of it before. And this guy came off the phone and he’d been talking about girls in cages that have been shipped all over India.

Tim Nelson (18:37):

And I was questioning him. I was like, what are you talking about? Never heard of anything like this. And, um, he pulled out his, his, his camera and showed me the pictures of the individuals who were he had seen the week before. And his, to me was now that you know about this, what you gonna do about it, because maybe there are people tonight who are crying themselves to sleep, and they’re calling out for someone to help ’em and maybe you could be that guy. So for me, I came back to the UK. I spoke to everybody I knew, and a friend of mine had met some folk that were thinking about putting on an event to tell people about the issue. And I said, you understand project management, you could help ’em, you’d done events before. Um, and we came along and, and kind of, there were about 10 of us that came together to put the first event on, uh, we decided we weren’t gonna do like a time hall or hire a hotel.

Tim Nelson (19:23):

We went and hired an arena, and we got we, my wife and I had to put our house potentially on the line if it, if it went wow. And again, that was a big moment for me because my wife was expecting our first child. We’d bought a piece of land. We built our first house. This was like, not the time that you really want to be put your house on the line. What arena Tim, if I can ask it was, it was the ne C arena in a place called Birmingham? No, not Birmingham, Alabama, but Birmingham, UK. Yeah. <laugh> and, um, we got 5,884 people to come to our first event. And that was for us, honestly. Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable. And that was really the birth of hope for justice. And in the group, I got the, the privilege of naming the charity back in the day and, um, and sat on the finding board of it, um, since the beginning.

Tim Nelson (20:15):

Wow. So you’ve been there since the very beginning. Yeah. I, I think there was one meeting before where they were talking about an event that I wasn’t at, but when we, when we started talking about where and high and what we would need, we, you know, you’re gonna need an entity. Hi, what, what, what do we do there? And what’s that gonna do? And I think at the beginning we thought, naively, maybe we could just fundraise and send money internationally. You know, maybe that’s a good thing to do. But the more that we realized, the complexity of this, we thought we should really start by employing undercover investigators to find individuals against hill against their will. And, um, it was really profound because the first year that we did that, uh, we rescued 110 individuals. And the youngest victim that we rescued was just three months old traffic for sexual exploitation.

Kelly Barner (21:02):

Now that’s not, we now in the us, I’ll, I’ll say this about the us. There’s an awful law out of company hopping at the sea level, right? You’re the CEO of this company one day, the next day, you’re the CEO of a company in a completely different industry with a totally different product offering. It doesn’t strike me that just anybody could step in and be the CEO of an organization, like hope for justice. I mean, certainly we’ve to talked about your worldview, we’ve talked about sort of the personal calling. You, you know, you tried stocks, you went back to people tech back to people, right? Everything kind of that draw back to people. What is it that you love the most about your

Tim Nelson (21:40):

Role? That’s a really great question and the way you framed it, honestly, that was brilliant. And anyone who’s listening to this, that was brilliant question. I think for me, it’s a real privilege to be in this seat. And I realize a bit like a conductor in an orchestra. I’m not making the most sound and I don’t get that. You know, people often just see the back of me and they don’t actually get to see me. And I’m not, I’m not looking for fame. I’m actually not looking for option. I’m not looking for my name up in lights in any way, shape or form. I kind of have come to that point of almost. I dunno if you’ve read Bob Buford’s book, but he talks about half time and about realizing that most people go for success, but actually what you want is significance in what you’re doing.

Tim Nelson (22:22):

And I think I’ve come to the point of, of seeing how significant we are as a charity and the, that we can bring. And I think everyone can do that. And, and there’s significance in every single person, but most people are prepared not to press into the discomfort that you need to go through, get through the dip. I think Seth golden talks about the dip that you have to go to, to, to come the other side. But most people aren’t prepared to go into that. See what significance could look like for them. And it’s not easy and it’s not, it’s not sugar coated and it doesn’t come. It comes more like vegetables rather than a steak dinner. It, it, it, you know, it, it requires each one of us to do extra, but, but, and honestly feel really privileged in every moment that we get to, to be a, a team doing this mission. And it is, is together. We’re, we’re working to try and end slavery rather than me somehow. Um, some hero on a, a white stallion leading the charge. I think what I feel more is more that conductor like, Hey, we need to grow this area because there’s a real problem and significance that we need to bring in this area. And, and, and hopefully for the team, they feel as empowered as possible to take responsibility and make a bigger difference.

Kelly Barner (23:32):

Well, and one of the things that you guys are exceptionally effective at is using visuals and data points and videos to tell the story, you know, Scott and I have done a lot of learning and researching to, to partner with hope for justice around the awards. And I find that while you have excellent representation on Twitter and LinkedIn, for me, it’s really the Facebook content that sort of hits you in the heart. And there there’s this excellent balance. You’ll have to go back and tell your team, there’s this balance between offering up really hard hitting statistics, this percent, this many people, uh, the equivalent of the, the occupants of the state of California, right? Those kind of relatable statistics with the stories of the people that you’ve managed to rescue or return to their homes and families when you are at the end of, of your day. And you have sort of that, that combination of statistics about the challenge you’re trying to address, but then the success story is all floating around in your head at the same time. What is it really that’s at the core of it for you? Which, which one of those things, is it that, that drives you forward as you continue doing that conducting?

Tim Nelson (24:44):

Yeah, I, I think for me, um, I had a mentor that when I was growing up and, and they, they told me this phrase that points are powerful, but connection is key. And, um, you know, numbers, you know, we kind the numbers because people kind, and therefore it’s important for us to kind numbers, but really, you know, the numbers, when we start to get caught up much in the numbers, we can lose the essence of what we’re doing. We don’t want to be head led. We need to be heart motivated because it causes you to push past particular points. I had a, I had a story that came to me just before Christmas. And, um, honestly I thought about this story a lot over the Christmas break that I took with my family. I have a, I have two daughters, one who’s seven and one who’s nine years old.

Tim Nelson (25:29):

And, uh, I get all the notes that come through on a weekly basis to me. And, and they highlight key issues and key things for me to be aware of. And each part of the world does this. So that, there’s a real sense of understanding because sometimes when you’re in this place, it’s incredibly dark and it’s incredibly difficult and it can feel a bit like you’re, you’re standing in the middle of a, a freeway, and you’re trying to tell everybody to stop. And there’s not really that motivation for people to stop. But, um, we got this story from our Cambodian office and it was of an eight year old girl and a little girl called Chaya. And this girl had when they, the, the, the kind of, um, they take them through, um, a trauma informed approach to make sure that the clinical psychologists can ensure we don’t want them to carry the trauma.

Tim Nelson (26:11):

And the pain of what’s happened to them. We wanna try and see them set free. And, uh, the, the short term transition center there, we call a lighthouse because we wanna bring people safe to shore. And one of the clinical psychologists had asked this girl about what she was thankful for, because it’s a key part of understanding how you bring hope is to turn people away from the darkness to the light of thankfulness. And this girl said that she was thankful she got to sleep in a dry bed and her per particular story. We think that she had been trafficked for about a year and a half. Her mom had got addicted to, um, I think heroin and had lost the home that they lived in. She found herself on the streets and she was selling the little girl from man to man. And I, I think for me, when you get to a point in your life where you go, I really have so much to be thankful for.

Tim Nelson (27:03):

You know, I feel I won the lottery of life being brought up, brought up in a, a family that cared for me and loved me and were able to provide for me, uh, I may not have, have had the footballer’s life, or, you know, the, the, you know, the, the privileged upbringing, but I’ve, I’ve learned a lot, but, you know, when you come back to that story, that’s the story that I, I remember, and it leaves an indelible mark on you because when it gets dark and it gets hard and you have to push past you, you know, I, I’m sure there are lots of people here watching bus, uh, at night today. And you’re thinking, you know, what am I doing this for in business? And I’m having to work hard and I’m having to press in, and I’m having to, you know, I’m not getting the returns that I thought, or, you know, the complexity of procurement and this doesn’t arrive when it’s meant to arrive. And the CanBan systems that we’ve set up for things just in time are just not coming through. I think what you need to have is that your, why leads you to a place that, that can get you past those difficult points. And, and I just, I, I get a profound that, it’s the stories. I think I will remember forever the numbers themselves may fade, but it’s, that points are powerful, but that connection is absolutely key. Mm. And I believe

Kelly Barner (28:13):

She wrote a poem. Didn’t she is it Cha’s poem that’s featured in, in some of your content. Just talk about a lighthouse. She’s a lighthouse. It’s hope filled. It’s Optum. You would never guess by reading her words, what this little girl had already been through in her life.

Tim Nelson (28:31):

Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s, that’s the joy, and that’s why I’m saying it’s like, I feel like I’m in the most privileged job of anyone in the world and it’s, it’s not, it’s not easy. It’s, you know, every day is I describe this. And a lot of people, my it resonate with this is moving from one difficult situation to another difficult situation and trying to stay positive in between. But I, I think the reality is you, you have to, because there are people, men, women, and children all over the world who need us to not be so preoccupied with our own self importance and get off our blessed assurance and do something about it,

Scott Luton (29:07):

Greed and more and more folks must set the challenge. If we’re gonna make progress in our efforts, joint efforts, eradicate modern slavery and human trafficking. And that’s where we’re going next. So I wanna, uh, again, for our listeners, hope for justice, uh, purpose driven, nonprofit that is committed to eradicate these traves from, in the face of the planet. And there’s lots of ways that you can support the organization. We’ll touch on that towards the end of, of today’s conversation. But Tim, what, you know, when you, you joined us for the livestream, you know, you blew our mind with, with some of the facts and figures and, and just aspects of this, uh, this fight against these, these horrible things. What are just a couple things our listeners have to understand about modern slavery and human trafficking?

Tim Nelson (29:49):

Yeah. I think, I think the first thing to try and, and bring people to people’s awareness is that this isn’t just an international issue. This is a local issue. Um, I, I said this last time I was on that, you know, if, if you heard that your daughter or your niece or your grandchild had been trafficked had been taken, you do absolutely anything to get them back. But the sad reality is that they are someone’s daughter, someone’s son. They are connected to someone who’s desperate to have them back. I think I heard a statistic, um, two weeks ago, which I’m still trying to process, um, online sexual exploitation through the pandemic has grown massively. Yeah. And, um, there are currently 2000, 2000 individual transactions a minute now processed for online sexual exploitation. Children are being groomed. Our Cambodia program told me just last 95% of all the victims have been groomed online.

Tim Nelson (30:44):

First, these types of things, you know, these types of statistics, you, you go that how many minutes has just gone past and how many individuals have, have, have felt that pain. But also, I think when you look at the vastness of it’s estimated that there are 40.3 million individuals who, who are held in some form of trafficking and modern slavery. There are, when, when we look at the reality of how big a business, this is, it’s $150 billion industry for serious and organized crime. The second biggest only after drugs and growing the issues of the pandemic have exasperated, the issues that put, pushed more people into poverty. We’re starting to see because of inflation and pressures that are placed on families, those burdens of poverty. And if individuals come with with, you know, a, a token of how something is gonna be so good for that child to get a job in the city and then find themselves enslaved, and, and we, we need to do more. We need to press into it more. We need to understand it more, but we do all that we can, so that those numbers themselves, we can push back. But if we added the sum total for the last, the last 12 months, 40.3 million who are estimated to be in slavery, but all the work of every anti-trafficking organization, there is only 118,000 individuals globally fined. So we’re not even scratching the surface of being able to make a bigger impact.

Scott Luton (32:04):

That is it’s mind boggling. It is mind boggling. Uh, if I can. So Kelly, you have published a recent article. I think it’s already been published. And you know, our, our listing audience is mainly supply chain, procurement, logistics, transportation, manufacturing, just really quick, Kelly, you kind of offered up three, three ways, folks in the craft, as we put it can, can play their part, do their part really. Can you, can you quickly share those three things? That one was one was supply chain mapping, I believe. Right? Yeah. So share those with sure. So

Kelly Barner (32:36):

It was really all focused around what we and supply chain would call tier two, right? So your tier one suppliers are the companies you work directly with, you have contracts, you pay them, they give you a product or service, but tier two and beyond, we know it’s a local issue, as you had pointed out Tim, but even locally, you can very quickly get to multiple tiers of the supply chain. So it actually has less to do with how many businesses away from your company this problem exists at. And it has more to do with how much visibility you have into anyone’s operation. And as we’ve, we’ve also learned really any place that’s busy with legitimate supply chain activity, lit legitimate human travel and, and transportation also be comes a hotspot for human trafficking. And so what I had written about in that article is how companies have to push beyond tier one.

Kelly Barner (33:28):

And it’s not just enough to go to your first tier supplier and say, Hey, do you have human trafficking or modern slavery in your supply chain? That’s too surface. It needs to be okay. Let’s let’s you. And I talk about expectations about how we’re gonna manage relationships, how I manage you and therefore how you should manage your suppliers. But how closely are you really looking into your supply chain? Do you trust your suppliers, suppliers, right? How much information do you have? How much visibility do you have? And, you know, it’s very hard because a lot of times where we think these problems probably exist are not exactly where they do, but I would be willing to bet that in the most serious cases, in the cases that need to be addressed most urgently, we have a sense, right? If, if you had to guess where’s the trouble, we kind of know where to start. So what are you doing in those areas to work with multiple tiers of supply partners, to not just say I have a lingering concern over there, you know, it’s sort of like once you saw those pictures of the kids in cages, you can’t just say, oh, that’s really sad and go on with your day. Right. Once you’re confronted with that, it’s okay. I have this information. And so therefore, what am I going to do? As you said earlier,

Scott Luton (34:43):

Kelly, own the money. Thank you for sharing. Um, cause we gotta take action. We gotta take action. We, we can’t turn a blind eye, you know, there, there’s just, there’s we’re gonna talk to, we’re gonna touch this in a minute. Um, but you know, supply chain practitioners are in a unique position. We’ll talk more about that, but um, all right. So Ry Jose and our friends at Gartner Kelly, we, we heard little birdie told us about something that’s coming up this summer, but, but before that, you and hope for justice partnered with, uh, the fine folks at Gartner own a project here recently. Tell us more, a little more about that.

Tim Nelson (35:19):

Yeah know again, I mean, there’s sometimes in, in life you get, you get honors and you get privileges and I, I, I don’t wanna understand that or overuse that, that phrase, but I think for Gartner to invite us to come in and share what we’re doing with businesses on slavery Alliance, really a, a really humbling experience and, and kind of really want to thank them for that amazing privilege. We, we talked a, a good bit of around what we are doing and how we are helping businesses to try and deal and tackle with this issue. You know, Kelly’s so right in terms of how complex this issue can be perceived, but you can break it down into simple, manageable the, that you can target response to. And I think, I think from my perspective, the, the key element we talked about with Gartner was around the gap analysis around the ability to be able to, to go through and do a deep dive on almost like a litmus check on, on your procurement.

Tim Nelson (36:13):

And I think what we wanna try and do is test the print and bulls test the, the knowledge and the understanding cuz we know nobody’s got it perfect. Uh, but we know that there’s so many companies who, who would tell us we don’t have an issue. Mm. Which itself is the issue, right? Um, because the, it, it’s not a question of, if you have slavery in the supply chain of your business, somewhere between 70 and 80% of all business will have modern slavery within their business, we’ll have human trafficking and for what we are finding, it’s, whether you’re not, you’re prepared to look and what will you do when you find it. And we wanna try and help as much as we can. We, we wanna do what we can to help businesses and slavery alliances are, uh, is our way in which we, we work with companies.

Tim Nelson (36:57):

And the work that we do with Gartner was just to unpack that a bit in terms of the steps that we take with companies and how, how we are trying to help businesses as a, a trusted friend. We’re not here to expose people for doing wrong, right? We, we wanna try and help people because I know how complex procurement is. I’ve sat with individuals. Who’ve got, you know, one, one company I was with last week had 70001st tier suppliers. So in, in that scenario, the complexities around even just being able to ensure that people are paid a fair wage in the first tier is really complex. So I don’t want to, I don’t wanna glam up how challenging procurement could be, but we wanna make it simple. We wanna make it strategic and we wanna make it helpful for people. So Gartner give us the, to go through some of the methodology, um, unpick it get under the skin. And certainly Corey was amazing in terms of how, how he led that and, and kind of the link directly to the event coming up really, really genuinely humbled to be even included in that lineup.

Scott Luton (37:55):

We’re talking about the Gartner supply chain symposium, uh, in June, 2022. So I love that you and Cori are gonna be, uh, keying, uh, amongst the keynotes at the symposium. And I’ll tell you, like we talked about pre-show, uh, Kelly, I’m, I’m sure we’re both feel the same to, to reach the Gartner organization, right. And the esteemed Gartner organization and all the folks that work with all the organizations of all sizes, it just elevates idea, you know, will elevate what the mission hope, hope for justice zone. And I’m just tickled that, uh, that’s gonna take place in June. So, uh, Kelly, I’ll give you a chance to weigh in there before we switch over to

Kelly Barner (38:34):

The awards and talk about that. Sure. So I guess last question for you, Tim, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about how complicated procurement is. We all know how complicated supply chain is. Why are we the ones, why are the we, the ones that should pick up this mantle of helping organizations like hope for justice, eradicate human trafficking and modern slavery. I mean, clearly Gartner is a fundamentally, very serious organization. They don’t do anything without full legitimacy and, and authenticity. So, you know, that’s a seal of approval if all the work that you’ve already done, hasn’t been, but why should we personally, as a profession, take this on as sort of our cause?

Tim Nelson (39:13):

Hmm. Yeah, no, it’s an interesting question. I think, I think I would answer it this way. We have this freedom wall that we’ve created at hope for justice, which effectively is a symbol of a lady called Sophia who got rescued in Cambodia. And, and she was rescued and held, held in thick tunes with a padlock. And we put an open padlock on the wall. And every time we get someone who was rescued, we write their name. We write the year they were rescued. It’s, it’s our wall of freedom or our freedom wall as we call it. Um, I’ve realized that individuals themselves have the key to freedom. But what I’ve also realized is procurement specialists are, let me describe it like this. You know, whenever you go into a building, a big building, 10 story building or whatever, there’s a person in that building who probably has a key that opens every door.

Tim Nelson (39:59):

Yes. And, and they may be a janitor. They may be a security personnel. Um, you know, we, we all know those people exist and, and kind of do amazing jobs at what they do. But I think in, in the world, we are in procurement specialists are master keys to freedom because they can open many, many, many doors of free freedom by making different choices, by understanding what you need to do and how you need to look and how you need to you, you position your company so that it becomes a fortres so that, you know, there’s, there’s no entry for those individual traffickers who are looking to embed themselves into your supply chain, but it, first of all, you just need to recognize it. But you also need to recognize that the legacy of what that, that can be, and, you know, as much as I would love it to be the CEO who makes those calls in a company, the sad reality is CEOs themselves have power, but you know, they they’re, they’re more conductors rather than necessarily the individual.

Tim Nelson (40:54):

Who’s gonna bring the freedom. Whereas procurement specialists for people who are within the supply chains of businesses, you hold that key. And I, you know, every time you pick up your keys at home, I’d want you to be thinking I can be the master key to freedom. Every time you use a key to get into your, your door at home, or, you know, many cars don’t have them for your, your car. And I, but you still might have something that looks like a ship of a key somewhere. I’d love for you to be thinking I can be the key to freedom, and maybe I need to be unlocking that door.

Kelly Barner (41:23):

Well, I don’t think I’ve ever felt so proud of work in procurement. Thank you for putting it that way. And hopefully, you know, everyone that’s listening to this, whether they consider themselves procurement or supply chain thinks of themself as the key, because there is something that each of us can do.

Scott Luton (41:37):

Agreed, agreed. A beautiful sentiment between two of y’all. Uh, so let’s switch gears. Think talking about things you can do. Um, we are delighted here between supply chain now and buyers meeting point and order procurement to put together, to have put together the, uh, 2020 or two supply chain and procurement awards, right. Which builds on really is powered by a legacy from several other, um, more localized awards. We’ve run here in Atlanta for a couple years. And we’re delighted to have partnered, not just with hope for justice, which in and of itself is, uh, something we’re very proud of. But, you know, from the very beginning, Tim kind of much kinda along the lines of what you were talking about earlier that dinner and, uh, the, the, the, the initial days of hope for justice and your why. Well, when we got together, we didn’t, we didn’t want to put together Kelly, another run of the mill awards program.

Scott Luton (42:28):

And, and, you know, not only because that’s boring, but there’s no purpose and what what’s, what’s, what’s the why what’s the, so what, so to, to not only, um, partner with hope for justice and, and, um, and really bake purpose into the event, yes, we’re gonna celebrate the good news going, you know, that the industry’s had organizations and individuals, but we’re gonna do so with purpose to bring awareness to these traves that both of y’all are speaking to, we’ve got to take more action. So, Kelly, uh, I’m gonna get, Tim’s take on the awards, but this has been a, a joint labor love, right? Me and you and Phil and the whole, a man, and the whole planning team, a couple of your initial thoughts, and then we’re gonna get Tim to weigh in. Sure.

Kelly Barner (43:11):

So, I mean, for me, it simply comes down to, there are so many different things that companies and procurement and supply chain within those companies is being asked to do. Now there’s sustainability, there’s diversity. There’s of course we’re dealing with inflation and disruptions and material scarcity. And sometimes it feels like we have to rank those things. But if we’re ever in a position where we’re putting any of these above human wellbeing, it does seem like we’ve kind of lost our way. And, and that’s the opportunity to sort of refocus on what ultimately matters, um, in the big picture. And maybe it means putting in a little bit more effort because you do have to protect the bottom line, but finding that little bit of extra energy or time or effort to also make sure that to the best of our ability, we’re, we’re rooting out human rights abuses where they exist. That has to be front and center in everything that we do

Scott Luton (44:07):

Well said very well said, Kelly, and I’m proud to partner continue really, uh, our business, uh, relationship and collaboration with this, this new vehicle. So, so Tim, I’m not sure if you can say much, much put it much better than what Kelly just shared, but if anyone can, Tim Nelson can. So tell us what are your thoughts on these awards and more importantly, the purpose behind it?

Tim Nelson (44:30):

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I know from speaking to lots of procurement people, you’re not the upfront flashy person. There’s a reason why you’re in procurement because you actually wanna make a difference. Yeah. And I think sometimes awards can sometimes feel a little bit like disingenuous to who you are and the impact that you bring. But let me tell you that you need to celebrate what you need to rep kit and that as you get celebrated through the awards, it replicates what other businesses will see as important. It lifts up a standard, and sometimes that’s what needs to happen in a place for people to realize that, you know, when, when things are, when things aren’t great or they need to change, you need one person to stand up from amongst them who, who celebrates that win, celebrates the difference and impact that you’re bringing.

Tim Nelson (45:16):

I think for many procurement individuals, they struggle to get what they’re doing on the agenda of the C-suite level that they’re in or struggles to get it across on the agenda. When, when as Kelly has said, there’s so many things competing for, for, for noise and traction, you know, people’s attention. But if you’re that company who ends up getting an award and you go back to work, PR guys are gonna love you. The, the, the boss is gonna want to come down and make sure he’s there to, or she’s there to take that award and, and, and kind of celebrate the company. Um, but I, I, I genuinely think it should be that every company wants to have a piece of, of this. Every company wants to buy in these things only work when people buy into the nature and need that we have for everyone to, to, to lend their bit.

Tim Nelson (46:03):

And no one raindrop ever felt responsible for the flood, but it takes each one to come together in a combining impact. And it can bring a tsunami of hope across so many people’s lives, but it takes you to go, yeah, I will go, I’ll, I’ll test this. I’ll see what, how, what this is like for my company. And I’d encourage anyone who’s listening, or if you know someone and you’re listening that you go, Hey, that guy needs to hear this message, or that girl needs to hear this message, because companies doing something that’s effective, we wanna lift up companies so that we can be able to encourage more companies to understand what’s important. And, you know, culture shifts when people start to, when people start to focus on intentionally what they need to develop. Mm. And like a, like a photograph. If I leave you this image, you know, you get a photograph and it develops, and your image that you see comes alive. And I think if you focus on this and we can see this develop, and, and my hope is that this in 50 years time, we’re talking about what an impact this was. And can you believe where we’ve come in 50 years? Uh, my, my aim for, for where you’re at and, and the, the businesses that you represent is that you all want to be a part of this. Mm. Why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna be responsible for making a bigger impact?

Kelly Barner (47:22):

Yes, yes. And yes. Yeah. And that’s why we’ve partnered with hope for justice. <laugh> right. No kidding. That’s

Scott Luton (47:29):

It right there that it really is. So folks, you heard it straight from, uh, me and Kelly, and of course our partner, Tim Nelson, a couple of examples. So when we talk about the 20, 22 supply chain procurement awards, first off, you can learn more. This will be in the show notes, but supply chain, procurement awards.com. It’s just that simple, we’ve got nine different award categories, such as deeds, not words, leadership award, cause we’re all speaking to action here. Gosh, you heard Tim and Kelly eloquently put it, got a building sustainable future award champions of humanity award, which I think was maybe one of my favorites, uh, reimagining the power of procurement technology trail blazer, delivering change to digital transformation, building a world class logistics ecosystem, and finally the unsung hero award. Because if there’s anything in global supply chain, goodness knows it’s a ton and ton tons of unsung heroes.

Scott Luton (48:22):

So find, learn more supply chain, procure awards.com. Get those nominations in March. First is the deadline. And as, as with any event, the nominations will fuel our ability to, um, not only, uh, provide resources, cause all the nomination fees are being donated to hope for justice. So not only are you, is you, are you and your company gonna get some, some visibility, but you’re making a very charitable donation to, to support a nonprofit that is highly regarded with, uh, probably plenty. Uh, but charity navigator is one that I look at regularly and Tim, your ears should be burning because they’re big fans of, of y’all’s work.

Tim Nelson (49:00):

Yeah, no, I, I appreciate these, you know, in, in many ways NGO world are, are the nonprofit world. Credibility is everything. Mm yes. And, and when organizations come alongside and they, they give you an award, a accommodation that makes a significant impact and that, and you know, the charity navigator are one of those individuals, but these awards are the embodiment of that because you want to be having these awards. It’s, it’s like a, a, a kite mark for who your business is and who you are as an individual. So yeah, no, I, I, I know we’re talking hope for justice and I, but I, I, I wanna turn it back to the individual themselves and, and the importance that they have, because, because I, I think in the same way as people look at charity and navigator and they say, Hey, hope for justice is, is doing a great job in where we’re at and demonstrating, uh, accountability, openness, transparency, and everything we’re doing. I want that for people’s businesses. And I want the, that through these awards, I really do

Scott Luton (49:54):

Well. We appreciate, uh, your con comments. More importantly, we appreciate your, your active partnership. And we look forward to building that tidal wave of, uh, awareness for these travesties, but more importantly, perhaps the support for eradicating these travesties. And so we really just, you big fans of what is going on, what hope for justice is leading. So, all right, so Kelly, before we start to wrap and we make sure folks know how to connect with Tim and hope for justice, because folks, we strongly encourage it outside of our wards, outside of, you know, our work together, Hey, go direct and partner up with hope for justice, consume their information. So you can be more informed and, and, and savvy. And you can take action with, um, with important consequences, but Kelly, your final word before we make sure folks know how to connect with Tim.

Kelly Barner (50:44):

My final word, Tim is just, thank you. Thank you for, for giving us the opportunity to learn, giving us something else that we can do. And for reminding us that no procurement does not feel particularly sparkly. We’re sort of the introvert club, but that doesn’t mean that the work we are doing behind the scenes is an incredibly impactful. So thank you for reminding that of reminding us of that part of our work.

Scott Luton (51:05):

Agreed, agreed, Kelly. Okay. So Tim, you know, I know we’re just still, after an hour of chatting with you, we’re still just scraping the iceberg on a variety of fronts, your story, hope for justice, the mission, your on the, the, unfortunately the, the massive scope of these challenges. But, um, there’s all, there’s more time and we want to make sure folks on to connect and get involved with hope for justice. How can they connect with you and the organization? Yeah, so

Tim Nelson (51:33):

Hope for justice.org. Um, our website, you can hit us up and, and connect in, but I wanna connect with people. You know, I talked about relationships and I, I think LinkedIn is, is the best way to do that. Um, I manage my own LinkedIn profile. So you, you, you comes three to me rather than come through to a machine. But I think, um, go on Tim Nelson and, and, and, and find me on LinkedIn. But if you go on our website, you can also link directly to my LinkedIn off, off the profile that’s on there. You know, you can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, um, Instagram, I think, I think my space is gone. Uh, it used to used to be a thing, but just, just in general, I, I think we’re on all, all the platform, the main platforms that you would, could normally connect into, but if there’s anything that’s burning and, and someone wants to talk about it, or, you know, maybe you’re that guy who, who, who won the lottery last night. And you’re, you’re just kind of burning as to what you’re gonna do with the money that you got. Like, don’t worry. We can help you. Um, the there’s a way, there’s a way that we can find a platform for you to help, but in all seriousness, just, we just wanna connect with people, build relationally. We’re not in it for a spasm of passion. We want long obedience in the same direction. So any relationship that we can connect in on would be, would be amazing,

Scott Luton (52:44):

Wonderful, excellent organization, noble mission, deeds, not words. Y’all really embody that. Uh, Tim and we’re proud to, uh, build on our collaboration and, and conduct, uh, this partnership via the award. So a lot more to come hope for justice.org, make sure you connect with Tim Nelson via LinkedIn. We’re gonna make it easy. We’re gonna include those links in the show notes. So if you’re listening to this, uh, you’re just really one click away. So Kelly, gosh, buyer’s meeting point dial P for procurement art, art procurement, the LinkedIn accelerator program, which has been really cool. A lot of your conversations around supplier diversity and whatnot. Um, how can folks connect with you?

Kelly Barner (53:23):

So it should be simple. Please connect with me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is now recommending that you follow people, please connect with me. Please reach out, include a note. Connect with me. I liked Tim. I love the relationships. I love the exchanges. Let me know why you’re reaching out. Um, but absolutely either bars meeting point.com, art of procurement.com dial P is part of now, or find me directly

Scott Luton (53:46):

On LinkedIn. It’s just that easy, Tim, I’m gonna adjust your phrase a little bit. You said relationships are the oil that powers global business. I’m really surprised you didn’t say Petro, that powers global business. You’re really throwing us for a loop with these, uh, these Americanized, uh, jargon here, Tim. I

Tim Nelson (54:06):

Try my best to try and to, to, to communicate, to communicate in a way that I, I don’t need hi lifts, um, from a, a Northern Irish man. Uh, but I am told that that I’m, I’m not represented like the English. You know, I, I, I promise you, I’m not gonna tax the tea. You know, we, we, we, we had, we had, uh, Brexit, but I’m told you can have Brenton back. If any of you do want to, uh, the queen is waiting. You can, the, the, the us can come back. It’s okay.

Scott Luton (54:36):

Hey, uh, Tim always a pleasure. Uh, really, and we, uh, enjoy all the things we’ve talked about, but man, your personality and your, and your, uh, stories and in your sense of humor, uh, really makes, you know, diving into all the rest of it a lot more enjoyable. So folks we’ve been chatting with Tim Nelson, uh, again, with hope for justice. So make sure you connect with him, uh, Kelly Barner, a pleasure to do this interview with you, uh, pleasure to the collaboration on the awards and everything else with you. Stay tuned. We’re gonna see Kelly, uh, law launching the second season soon of dial P for procurement and as Tim and Kelly both have said, procurement’s cool. These days, folks, you gotta get with, get with the program. Um, wicked. Cool. It’s wicked. Cool. Wicked cool on that. So folks hopefully enjoy this conversation as much as I have, uh, big thanks to Tim and Kelly. Hey, gotta take action to find a way, no matter how small, but taking action and taking action soon, you can always build on those actions. So on behalf of our entire team here at supply chain, now gotta challenge you. Hey, do good give forward. But most importantly, be the change. Be like Tim Nelson, hope for justice. And on that note, we’ll see you next time, right back here on supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (55:48):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.