What does it take to be a CEO of a nonprofit that serves millions of people around the world by delivering critical medicines and healthcare supplies? Look no further than Steve Stirling, CEO of MAP International to find out. In this classic episode of Logistics With Purpose, produced in partnership with Vector Global Logistics, discover Steve’s courage, determination, compassion and focus as he shares his incredible personal story, the MAP International mission and invaluable reflections on managing international logistics for a more-than-worthy cause.

Intro/Outro (00:02):

Welcome to logistics with purpose presented by vector global logistics in partnership with supply chain. Now we spotlight and celebrate organizations who are dedicated to creating a positive impact. Join us for this behind the scenes glimpse of the origin stories, change making progress and future plans of organizations who are actively making a difference. Our goal isn’t just to entertain you, but to inspire you to go out and change the world. And now here’s today’s episode of logistics with purpose.

Kristi Porter (00:34):

Hi, I’m Kristi Porter with vector global logistics, and you’re listening to another episode of logistics with purpose. Actually today’s episode is coming out of the archives because it is a must. Listen. This is one of our early episodes and features Steve Sterling of map international, along with a couple of my vector teammates and our good friend, Scott Luton of Supply Chain Now Steve Stirling story is remarkable worth listening to whether it’s your first, second or time he was born in South Korea. Contracted polio was adopted by a couple living in Alaska. It’s a, just that piece of his story is worth tuning in for, uh, he went into a claimed schools, climbed the corporate ladder at companies you’re very familiar with. And for the last two decades, he’s been leading nonprofits in this. Now the CEO of map international. The other reason that this remains a timely episode is because worldwide access to life, saving medicine and health supplies is still a huge issue.

Kristi Porter (01:33):

And there’s been a big spotlight on it during the pandemic. So you’re gonna wanna hear how and why 2 billion people lack access to medicine and how map is working to close that gap. Additionally, myself and another teammate had the pleasure of hanging out with the map team last week, got to meet their nonprofit partners. And of course we couldn’t resist taking a tour around their warehouse and operations, uh, facilities. So there’s a lot you can learn from both map and Steve’s story that is worth doing worth, being inspired for the day and learning how maybe you can come become involved with their mission. So we hope you enjoy this classic episode of logistics with purpose.

Scott Luton (02:11):

All right, so we, we’ve got a full a slew of guests here today. Let’s welcome. In first off, our fearless co-host here from the incredible vector global logistics team. We have Matilda Arhin, Matilda, how you doing? I’m

Matilda Arhin (02:24):

Good.

Scott Luton (02:25):

Great to see you. I’ve I’ve really enjoyed Rob elbows to a variety of different initiatives, and it’s great to finally get you on the podcast. So welcome in Matilda. Of course, Adrian Purtill. Good afternoon, Adrian.

Adrian Purtill (02:38):

Hi Scott. Uh, good to be here again and looking forward to another wonderful show.

Scott Luton (02:42):

Agreed, agreed, man. I, as a gorgeous scene, you’ve got just back behind you.

Adrian Purtill (02:47):

I love it.

Scott Luton (02:49):

All right. And finally, we’ve got the one and only Enrique Alvarez. Enrique. Good afternoon.

Enrique Alvarez (02:55):

Hey, it’s Scott. Good afternoon. Great to be here with you. It’s always and, uh, really excited about this particular episode. I it’s gonna be great,

Scott Luton (03:02):

Completely agree. And none of y’all let the cat out of the bag with our future. I almost

Enrique Alvarez (03:06):

Missed, almost did

Scott Luton (03:08):

Well. Let’s welcome with, with no further ado and really excited about this episode, uh, along with what you just shared there. Kay, wanna welcome in Steve Sterling, president and CEO of map international, who has been serving millions of people around the world, folks in need since 1954. Wow. Steve. Good afternoon.

Steve Stirling (03:27):

Good afternoon, Scott. Glad you be on your show.

Scott Luton (03:31):

We are so excited to have you, as we talked about kind of pre-show your reputation and, and what you and the map organization has been doing perceived. And we’re really excited to dive in deeper and share that with our

Steve Stirling (03:42):

Audience. I am too. And I wanna thank you, Scott and Enrique and Adrian and Matilda for having me, uh, on your show. It’s just great to be part of this great team here.

Scott Luton (03:52):

This is your story. And what you’re doing is really the Genesis of the logistics with purpose series. And, and it’s one of our favorite series here at supply now. So let’s dive right in and, and, and before we get to work, um, let’s get to know you better, Steve. Uh, you know, you’ve got a, you’ve had a fascinating journey. We wanna share some of that with our audience. So tell us, tell us where you’re from and, and paint that picture. Give us a few anecdotes about your journey.

Steve Stirling (04:14):

My stories about with God, all things are possible. I was born in South Korea and, uh, when I was one year old, I ended up getting polio. And my father, my biological father went to a funeral, uh, of his friends. Uh, uh, his child had passed away and unbeknownst to him, the child had passed away from polio. So this would’ve been 1957 and the polio vaccine had not reached Korea yet. I ended up getting polio. That was that setting to my father because I was the eldest son. And he felt so guilty about bringing the virus home to me. And so it was just a, a tragic time. It, it seemed like it at the time. And so when I was five years old, they tried to do all they could to get me to walk. And there was no, um, healthcare back then. And so my father heard about a pretty orphan is called hold.

Steve Stirling (05:02):

My aunt told him maybe if he was able to go into hold, maybe I could get some medical care and some other things in life. So I remember the night before my father dropped me off, he really distraught. And I remember he got a little drunk because I think must have been so painful for him. And so next morning he got up and he took me to the ORP finish and he, uh, left me at the doorstep and he told me to cry and somebody will come get you. And so I BA him, I sure I cried and sure enough, somebody got me. But then, uh, by the next day I crawled back where he dropped me off because I thought he was gonna come get me, did that every day for over a week. And then the second week, uh, my relatives brought my sister.

Steve Stirling (05:42):

Um, I have a biological sister that was adopted with me. And so they dropped her off. And so at least we were together. She’s not disabled. And so she, we could spend the time together. But I remember in growing up in the orphanage, it was very, uh, you know, I was scared because I, I thought I’d do something bad. You know, Hey dad, you know, what, what did I do wrong that you just abandoned me like this? And then I used to remember, I used to cry after to God. I said, God, first I was angry at God said, well, you know, what did I do to be abandoned and left behind and first get polio and then do all those things. And then I, that turned to God, God helped me. And it says in Psalm 72, 4, 12, and 14, that if you cry out the homeless of orphans, the widows, when they cry out to God, God will listen as their blood is precious to him.

Steve Stirling (06:30):

And he did listen. And so I was very fortunate that while I was in the orphanage, that a sponsor sponsored me. And so I would get some leg braces and crutches. I can walk first. It was leg braces. And then I remember, you know, going to school, I was the only handicapped kid going to the regular school. And kids would pick on me every single day, like clockwork, well, physically and verbally, but I still wanted to go to school. I don’t know what drove me, but I wanted to go to school. But then what would happen is when I get back to where the handicapped kids staying, that’s me included, I would line ’em all up and I would literally, uh, take it on, on them. So in frustrations, I, I was, I was a bad kid cause I was just literally, um, you know, beat up the handicap kids when I got home.

Scott Luton (07:09):

Well, Steve, real quick, let me ask you a question. Two, two quick things. First off seems like your faith was something you could really lean on heavily during these really challenging childhood. Right?

Steve Stirling (07:20):

I didn’t know who Jesus was. I nobody told me about Jesus. I just knew I could talk to somebody and you know, I didn’t have any adults to talk with. So I would just start talking to God and I didn’t know who God was. I would just start talking to him and that’s, I was not a spiritual person, any other than, I just need to talk to somebody. And so I cried out to God for help.

Scott Luton (07:42):

And then secondly, where, and during these formative years, as you’re going to school and having these experiences, you’re just sharing here. What city was that? Where was that? It

Steve Stirling (07:50):

Was a place called I son Korea. So I was born in Seoul, Korea, then the, uh, orphanages it’s, uh, in Elson, it’s about 20 miles Northwest of Seoul. And so, uh, you can go there and that’s a big city, but back then it was a tiny little village.

Scott Luton (08:05):

And did you spend, did you stay in IAnd throughout your, um, your early schooling?

Steve Stirling (08:11):

Uh, I did so, so I was in the orphanage for five years and, and this is amazing how God worked. My parents, uh, Lyn and Jim Sterling. They went to Korea to pick up another brother and sisters that related to me by blood. And so they were passing on candy to the kids who were left behind my sister, Mary Ellen. She took the candy and she ran off. So the, my parents asked the orphanage worker, what doesn’t she like us? What does she run off that way? And the orphanage workers told my parents, she has a hand brother and she’s taking him candy first. Wow. So I, I had her train really well. Right. She was my legs, but they were so touched by that. They said, oh, we need to meet her brother. So they went way in the back of the orphanage. And I was sitting on the floor with the other handicapped kids and they said, oh, uh, they said, we need to adopt them too.

Steve Stirling (08:58):

Has she not done what she did turned candy with me first? My parents, would’ve not even known about us about me, certainly. And they would not adopted us because they had a, um, law back then immigration law, where you can only bring over two children from a, um, uh, international country. So, uh, they had to work two years to amend the bill, uh, as a writer. So when president Johnson signed the bill in 1966 August, then we could come over. So my sister had a big play part, you know, in coming over because she not done that we would be back and still in Korea. So I’m thankful she’s she was very, uh, thoughtful and thought about somebody else beside herself when she had to share the candy with me first.

Scott Luton (09:39):

Wow. So, so you early on had developed an appreciation for supply chain, right? The candy supplier here. Exactly. But secondly, kidding aside, if I’m gonna understand you correctly and I may not, but part of them developing, making that connection, your parents, your adoptive, that led to legislation that allowed for a lot more handicapped children to be adopted, is that right?

Steve Stirling (10:02):

It was basically, my parents worked with the Congressman in Alaska cuz they had, they had moved from California to Anchorage, Alaska. And so they were writing the Congressman in Alaska and saw my book by the way. And so the Congressman basical attached to a bill, it’s a writer. And so when the bill passed, then we could come over and basically said that, uh, that MSU, my sister E could come over so they could be, uh, become children for Lynn and Jim Sterling. So while it was a beginning of the immigration, uh, this was back in the sixties when there was no really immigration and adoption going on. So they were, they played a part of that, uh, process as well.

Scott Luton (10:42):

Outstanding. We’re gonna talk about your, you reference your book, the crutch of success. We’re gonna talk about that more here as we get further into the, uh, the interview. So, so tell us more as, as we continue kind of working way into your professional journey before we get there, tell more about your upbringing and, and some of these challenges you fought through,

Steve Stirling (11:00):

You know, it was so amazing when you are living in a small orphanage in El San Korea, and all of a sudden you land in the airport in Anchorage, Alaska, it’s majestic, you got the mountains on the other side, you got the ocean on one side and it is this beautiful place. And by the way, in Korea, the, uh, Korean worked for America. It’s me go, which means beautiful land. And it was certainly a beautiful land. So when we, uh, so it was first time that I had a family, uh, after I was in orphan for five years. And so my parents adopted, uh, by then, uh, we were the sixth, fifth and sixth, and then also God bless them. One of their own, uh, God has a sense of humor cause they thought they can have any children. So when they adopted three boys and three girls, then they had one of their own.

Steve Stirling (11:45):

So they had seven children. So growing up in my first house was, you know, with the one bathroom and nine people, it was, you had to learn cooperation. Uh, then we moved into a bigger house then, but it was really just a great, you know, I was, uh, was in a regular school and kids didn’t pick on me. I think they thought I was Eskimo or something. It was a novelty. And even though I had crutches, they didn’t pick on me. So it was just a, for me, it was a wonderful time to be in America to start going to regular school.

Scott Luton (12:12):

It sounds like to me that if we all grew up in households of, of seven or eight children, that world would be a nicer, nicer place to live. Huh? I love this story that you’re sharing and, and you’re painting images. I think in a lot of our minds here, and I don’t wanna move along too quick to the professional side, but what, what else as you’re, as you, as you think about your life and your background that really got you prepared to make such a big impact, you know, professionally and, and, and globally, that you’re, that you and map are doing now, what else sticks out about your upbringing?

Steve Stirling (12:43):

Well, I think there are a couple things. One is I remember when I became a us citizen and, uh, that was 1960, uh, eight. And so I didn’t really know nine I do now, but I didn’t know at the time what that meant my parents, uh, said, uh, Steve, now you can be anything you want in, in the us, except for the president of the United States. And now who wants to be president anyway. Right? And, and if you do something really bad, they could deport you. And I said, I said, what does that mean deport you? They said, well, they’ll send you back to Korea. I said, give me like a vacation. They said, no, they’ll send you back forever. And I said, well, I’m gonna be the best star kid. Cause I don’t wanna go back to the orphanage. And because of that, I tried, I, I worked really hard anyway because I didn’t wanna disappoint my parents, but I was really motivated not to make any mistakes because I thought if I did, I would go back to Korea and I’ll tell you this later, how that really impacted me in a, in a big way.

Steve Stirling (13:38):

Another story I like to share with you is that when I was in, uh, high school, I asked my mom and dad, what are the best colleges in the United States? And they said, uh, Ivy league school and Stanford. And I told them, I’m going to go to one of them. And they said, Steve, uh, look around you. We have seven kids. You know, we don’t have money to send you to these, uh, schools. They’re very expensive and they’re very, very hard to get into, which means I’m not that smart cuz I’m not. And so, but I remember telling them God will provide. That’s what I told them. They’re probably thinking, what is this kid talking about? Keep that in mind because I ended up going to Cornell undergraduate and Northwestern for my MBA. And again, just showing you what is possible when you really trust the Lord and have big dreams and you really just go for it, just like, Hey, nothing could stop you, uh, long as you have a big dream and have God on your side.

Scott Luton (14:26):

I love that. I, I was reading a story in the wall street journal, not too long ago, it was an obituary as a matter of fact, but it was one of the found, I think the founder of the new robotics. And he was quoted as talking about how important to the growth of the company. It was for him and his leadership team to have an indomitable spirit. Uh, and so beyond, uh, Providence and beyond a good Lord and, and clearly his blessing on your journey, you know, having that spirit that you’re gonna, whatever comes your way, you’re gonna overcome it and, and, and break through those barriers. It sounds like Steve, a lot of kindred spirits and how you look at, look at life.

Steve Stirling (15:03):

Thank you. And I fully agree with you and I’ll tell you one other story before I talk about my professional life now. And so the other part was, you know, in growing up in high school, do you remember when you had, you know, boyfriend or you know, or girlfriends? And I had lots of girlfriends because people liked me, but I didn’t have a girlfriend. They were all platonic. So again, I remember I just, prior to God, I said, God, and it was usually a night when it’s quiet and nobody could hear me crying night, quietly. And I cried out to God. I said, God, uh, after my heart was broken, many times, I said, God, uh, would you one day get me a wife. I skipped a girlfriend altogether. I went one for the wife. I said, one day, would you get me a wife?

Steve Stirling (15:44):

Would you make a kind, would you make a wise? And would you make her general? And also God, you’re the God of the universe. Beautiful too. And I, I have to tell you, when I asked my wife of now almost 39 years to marry me, we never dated, she had many offer people trying to ask me to marry her. She said no. And so I literally, I it’s a long story and I’m gonna tell you it’s in the book again. I called her when I was back at Northwestern, I called her on the phone and I asked her and I said, uh, Zuki, I have a question. She said, yes. I said, uh, uh, I said, yes. I said, would you marry me? She said, yes, I will. I said, I don’t think you understood the question. You marry me please. And she said, yes, I’ll marry you.

Steve Stirling (16:29):

And I had to cover up the phone because first of all, I didn’t know what to say. I thought who would say, oh, let me think about it. Pros and cons. But that cover out the phone. I said, Yahoo. And you know, I tell you that story because we never dated. And when you look at it, God was answering all my prayers when I was crying out to him quietly. And so I, I just share that with you because really our hands are our life in her hands. When you trust the Lord, uh, we can accomplish many things and she’s been a big part of my life and I cannot do what I do without her today.

Scott Luton (17:01):

Thank you so much for sharing. I know that there’s so much more to that story and we’re just scratching the service, but really that sets the table for the rest of the conversation. So Matilda, I think we’re gonna be talking about his professional journey now. Right?

Matilda Arhin (17:14):

Definitely start. This is, I mean, it’s just inspiring. It’s I mean, all inspiring is probably the words that I can find right now. I’ve had the opportunity of reading the book and I want well to know about the book, because especially in these times that we are in, it is important for people to understand what it means to have hope, you know, to be, to be faithful in your area. So I’m excited. I wouldn’t want to move away from this conversation, but we have to get into the professional state. So Steve, thank you for sharing. Um, let’s talk about, like you said, professional journey, you know, to your prior to your current role, what were some of your key positions that helped shape you worldview?

Steve Stirling (17:54):

Um, my first job and I really to do I go into investment banking or do go into marketing, uh, entrepreneurship marketing. And I had, I was very fortunate, uh, to have worked at Johnson and Johnson at the, on the Tylenol business. And so that was my first job, uh, getting out of, um, Northwestern and, you know, it was, uh, first time where I had the opportunity to really, once you get your foot in the door, you have to prove yourself that everybody else. And so, um, and I was so thankful for J and J to gimme the opportunity. First of all, I’m very thankful to them because they pay for my MBA, which back in the, you know, the eighties wasn’t huge, but you know, it was still a lot of money in terms of, uh, back then was a lot of money. Uh, so thankful for that.

Steve Stirling (18:39):

And so we’re always grateful for the J J leadership scholarship that they provided for me. And so once I got in, though, I realized that I was different. You can see then I’m Asian and I, I don’t right now, you, you can’t see by I’ll walk with crutches and leg braces. So I didn’t have anybody else like me, uh, or pretty much any place that looked like me. And, and just be, I can kind of kind of, you know, mentors that type of thing. So basically I had to really figure out, well, how do I get into the, the informal social structure? So I try to as much as possible, uh, do things with the, my, uh, colleagues and whatnot, but, you know, I don’t play golf. I don’t play tennis. So sometimes that’s how you really, uh, start putting these bonds together. And so I try to figure out a way, other ways, uh, how do we get together socially? So we can start building relationship it beyond, uh, work because that you, you need to do that in order to be able to work together and collaborate together. So when, when you understand each other better, uh, you can get a lot more things done and it’s much more enjoyable.

Matilda Arhin (19:43):

Just this, like I said, a lot of people, not only in your, uh, predicament, a lot of predicament situation, you in where you came from, what you’re doing, what’s a key Eureka moment that you’ve had in this professional journey.

Steve Stirling (19:56):

Well, I’ve, I’ve had a number of Eureka moments. One of the things I never planned on doing was to work for a nonprofit, uh, because my, my objective was to work and plan the corporate ladder. And I was doing that. I went from Johnson and Johnson in to American own products, you know, help launch Avil and then went to, uh, Bristol Marqui launched boost, nutritional drink, and then, uh, um, conne foods and then Ameritrade. And so that was climbing the corporal ladder. And my thought of, of serving was serving on the board. And that, that was my extent. I, by then I was, uh, accepted Christ of my Lord and saviors. I, I would serve, uh, on the church related things and camps and that type of thing, but my whole outlook professionally was on just working in climbing the corporate ladder. And so, uh, when I served on the, on the board of whole international children services, where I came from for nine years, uh, in 2000, this is the Eureka moment that I had in 2000, the founder’s wife, ber ahol passed away.

Steve Stirling (21:01):

And so, uh, and also by then, if you recalled in 2000, the NASDAQ crash stock market crash. And so I was the vice president, a third VP of Ameritrade now, TD Meritrade. So they laid me off, which was a blessing in disguise because I had the time to fly my wife and I fly to, uh, Korea to attend the funeral of, uh, Bertha Holt. And there I met my childhood friend. Peter’s name is Kim. And he has severe sort palsy. Uh, he could barely feed himself. He gets around with electric wheelchair, but he was smiling at me. So I thought, well, he must be my friend. So I said, Kim, do you remember me? And he said, yes, ma’am sir. I remember you. I said, oh, what do you remember me about? He said, um, well, you used to beat me up all the time.

Steve Stirling (21:46):

And remember I told you earlier that when I came home to the orphanage, uh, when I was saying at the orphanage, I would get, you know, pick on the kids because they picked on me. So I felt really bad cause I’m very strong upper body. So I asked him, Sue, would you forgive me for what I did to you growing up? And he looked me right in the eye and he said, young Sue, I forgive you a long time ago because Jesus forgive me a, my sins. And when he said that I was speechless, I, I, I was just thinking, you know, this is a man trapped in his own body. He could, uh, barely feed himself, but he’s happy. He’s joyful. And then, so I start thinking, what am I doing with my life? And that was the first Eureka moment I really had where I said, and I said to God, I said, God, what do you want me to do? I will do anything you want me do. And that’s what I told I’ll do anything. And then I learned that the orphan I grew up in for five years initially was helped by Bob Pierce, the founder of world vision. And so, uh, after many interviews that I worked for world vision, that’s my first nonprofit job. And that was 20 years ago in 2000. Uh, so that was really a big uric me moment for me, where I went from corporate to nonprofit. Now I’ve been in the nonprofit for roughly, uh, 20 years as well.

Scott Luton (22:57):

This is very inspiring and, and, and kind of thought provoking, right? As I hear Steve walk us through his journey, uh, both personally and professionally, you know, what are we doing right to, to, to make an impact to give back? I mean, I, I hope hopefully our audience is kind of thinking that themselves, but on that note, going back a little bit, Steve, and before we talk about your book for a minute, you were talking about how hard and how intentionally and how deliberate you were trying to make those relationships in the organization based on some of your limitations and, and, but, and how difficult that was. And I think that’s just a key takeaway, I think, for the conversation for all of us, because I think for those, for, for those that have limitations or don’t have limitations and that, that, and, and fitting in maybe an afterthought, it’s really important for us to put ourselves in, in your shoes and hopefully make, you know, build those bridges and make it easy for folks that, that were doing exactly what, what you’re trying to do. So I really appreciate you sharing. Cause I think that doesn’t get enough attention. It can be in a blind spot for so many folks. All right. So let’s talk about your book, heard a lot about your book. Uh, uh, I’m, I’m ashamed to say I haven’t read it yet, but I’m gonna pick it up from Enrique. All right. So the crutch of success. So a couple questions here first off, what really can you point to specifically that said, Hey, I’ve gotta write this book.

Steve Stirling (24:17):

My wife Suki, her name, her name is Suki. She was telling me, you know, encouraging me for years to know you need to tell your story because you are unique. You’re probably the only handicap Korean American, who is a CEO of a nonprofit. And I said, oh, there’s other people like me. And I don’t want to be talking about myself. And especially when you, you write a book yet you really need to share your story, be little transparent. And I, I really didn’t wanna do that. And then, uh, finally, uh, this happened about a year ago. Finally, I realized it’s not about me, it’s about God and what he’s done accomplished through me. And so it was really about how do I encourage other people, you know, really talking about where you start in life, so that a very humble beginning doesn’t have to define where you end up.

Steve Stirling (25:09):

And so hopefully it will be encourage some people that are going through challenges in life. We all challenges. Sometimes it’s physical at the times, it’s mental, it’s other it’s economical, uh, situation, whatever we may be. So hopefully you give them some hope that, uh, God could use any of us, any one of us, us, if we just led him to, uh, the permission. Cause we had to, it’s a choice. We can be bitter about it and said, no, you know, I had this happen to me and I I’m gonna be bitter about it or say, Hey, it happened because it was meant to, and you can use it for the good. And so that’s why, uh, finally ended up writing the book.

Scott Luton (25:45):

You took all of that and used it as ammunition and as a way to, to give back and help others and inspire others. I love that lesson learned here. All right. So before we’re gonna bring Adrian in here momentarily, cause we’re gonna talk about map international, but before we do, I know it’s tough. This is gonna be a tough question because there’s so much in the book I’ve heard, uh, from this team here and, and, and doing a little bit of homework. If there’s one thing that readers of your book will take away and will remember you as an author, what, what would you really want that to be?

Steve Stirling (26:15):

Ephesians two 10 says we are God’s workmanship, creating Christ Jesus to do good works, which he prepared in advance for us to do. So F for me, that was a, um, many life changing versus, but it’s one of them because it doesn’t matter if I have crutches. If I have polio, uh, God had some special work that only I can do. And so it really talks about everybody because we may say, you know, I didn’t have a, a chance in life. I didn’t, I was born in this country. I came here. I didn’t have chance to do this and go to a good school or whatever it may be. God could still use you because he created each person, uh, to do good works, which you’re preparing advance for us to do. And so I believe that, uh, and I, I truly believe that because without that belief, you can’t accomplish things, but when you believe and you say, well, you know, I’m gonna do it and I’m gonna do the best of my abilities to do it, then God will do the rest. So I think that’s one of the, the things I like to challenge everyone. That’s listening to the podcast that everyone has a purpose in life. It doesn’t matter who you are. And, uh, so I hope that encourages everyone to do and go out and just do it and then see what God can do once you do that.

Scott Luton (27:30):

Everyone certainly has a purpose. It takes a little time sometimes to find it and act on it. But I love that message, Steve. Okay. So Adrian so much good stuff here. I, I almost hate to talk about mapping as much as I’m, I’m looking forward to learning a lot more about map international, but Adrian, let’s dive right in, huh?

Adrian Purtill (27:49):

Yeah. Thank you, Scott. Steve. So yes, as Scott said, let’s, uh, let’s all learn more about map international. If you could tell us, uh, exactly what map does and what it’s all about.

Steve Stirling (27:59):

It was interesting. Uh, when I got the interview, uh, Twitter calls, this is about seven years ago now. And she says we have the, I had, we had the best role for you CEO of, of map. And I jokingly said, I said, map, who uses map? Everybody has GPS. And they said, no, it stands for medical assistant program. And, and, you know, I knew about gifting kind, but I never heard of map before. So it said really the best kept secret. And so I told the recruiter, I said, no, uh, my first response was no. And then I came home because I told the, the previous CEO of where I was, uh, uh, that I would be there at least, uh, uh, three to five years. I was a COO, uh, of child fund in Richmond, Virginia. So I wanted to keep my promise. And so then I, uh, came home and told Zuki about it.

Steve Stirling (28:46):

She said, you said maps a Christian organization. I said, uh, yes. She said, don’t you think you should at least pray about it? First? I said, you’re right. Said I would prayed about it. And then, uh, then I realized the impact, that map is making and, and got it, prepare me for the role, you know, why did I end up getting polio? And there’s so much better if you could prevent a disease with the vaccine, but once you get it something you can, it’s treatable. You know, if you get a, uh, you get sick, if you have hypertension, if you get antibiotic, those are very curable things or certainly manageable, uh, uh, chronic diseases. But if you don’t have the medicine, you will literally not make it. So, uh, I, um, ended up getting the role. And then when you look at the impact map is making, because map gets medicines donated by pharmaceutical companies.

Steve Stirling (29:32):

And so these products are still good products. They’re not expired yet, but they’re getting close to expiring. So when, by the time when map gets, it usually had by eight months dating on it. And so then we store it, process it, and we ship it out out of Brunswick, Georgia to our implementing partners on the ground. And they, our partners on the ground have boots on the ground, people on the, their own staff. And they will then, uh, distribute medicines to, uh, hospitals and clinics and school and, and other, uh, um, facilities. And because map gets these medicines donated a $10 donation will provide $840 with a medicine. And think about that. You know, where, you know, two cups of coffee, right? Starbucks coffee, two cups will provide $840 with life saving medicine.

Scott Luton (30:23):

Talk about a force multipliers, Steve, holy cow.

Steve Stirling (30:26):

It is, it is a huge, uh, you know, one to 84, it’s a huge impact and people want return on investment. What, what impact am I making? So map does medicines. We also do, um, get, we get involved during disaster response because anytime you have a disaster, natural manmade, you always need medicines and supplies. And so map gets involved there as well. And we’ve been involved with every year with hurricane responses, earthquake responses, the explosion and bear root. And this year, particularly, we’ve been so engaged with providing, uh, health supplies, face masks, gloves, PP, personal protected equipment, uh, personal wive medicines to help combat the coronavirus right here in the us, but also around the

Scott Luton (31:11):

World. One quick follow up comment here, Adrian, before we dive a up, further that explosion in the port bay route, you know, we’ve all of course read about that. We’ve had some folks on that were involved in some of those continuing relief efforts, but gosh, the amount of tragedy that the people there have just dealt with, it’s been, it’s been hit after hit after hit. So really appreciate your efforts there, uh, all the things you mentioned, but certainly those folks that, that continue to get, um, challenge after challenge. So great story. All, all right. So Adrian, we’re gonna dive deeper into roles, right?

Adrian Purtill (31:45):

Yeah. Steve, tell us about the, you know, the roles that you have as, as well as CEO, how you see those roles playing out in, in, in practice, within map. And, uh, where do you spend your time

Steve Stirling (31:55):

Physically? I spent, I split my time between Brunswick, Georgia, and Atlanta. And now because of COVID 19, I’m not spending much time in Atlanta. The Atlanta’s important because you have the corporations there and you have much more support, uh, in Atlanta, uh, versus in Brunswick. Brunswick is our operations and, uh, Adrian Mattel that have been there and looking forward to hosting Enrique and you Scott some day too, in Brunswick, we have a 40,000 square foot warehouse. It’s a global distribution center. And that’s what we do the operations part in terms of physically doing the work in terms of spending my time. I try to split my time between strategy and then, uh, also implementation because, uh, number one, you have to hire good people to let them run the business. As you know, supply chain management, it’s all about people. Cause we’re not making anything.

Steve Stirling (32:43):

We’re really moving, uh, items from pharma companies to map and to, to our partners and doing that, that supply chain management. Uh, and then strategy is very important because if you don’t manage a nonprofit, like a business, you’ll, you you’ll go out of business. And so people think nonprofit is, oh, you can do basically what you want. And you know, it’s okay to lose money, cuz you’re nonprofit. You cannot do that because long term, if you lose, continue to lose money, you cannot stay in business because at some point you can’t borrow any more money. And so really how do you run an organiz with excellence and, you know, map we talk about, we, uh, are serving God and God wants excellent. He doesn’t want mediocre work. And because we’re nonprofit does not mean we want the excellent, the best of what we can do any, uh, any organization to do.

Steve Stirling (33:37):

So that’s very important. And so, uh, I think it’s strategy also is very important because it kind of gives you the future vision of where you’re headed and you know, there’s a need in the world. Uh, w H O world health organization estimates. There are 2 billion people in the world without access to, uh, life saving medicines and supplies, and that’s getting worse with COVID 19. So, you know, each year map, uh, and this year map helped over 20 million people get access to medicines and health supplies. But, but, but normally we do maybe 10 to 13 million people. So, but think about that 2 billion and 10 million that’s, that’s a scratch. So one of the challenges we put out there as part of our strategic planning says with the board and our senior leadership team, and I shared that with, uh, vector with Mika, Adrian, uh, Matilda was we wanna double impact in the next five years.

Steve Stirling (34:31):

Uh, not in the next 65 years. Uh, the age of map, we wanna double it in the next five years and to do that is gonna take a great deal of, uh, strategy in terms of go library with other people, how do we get more supplies? How do we get more, uh, funding to help move the supply? So when we believe that we can double what we do and could be, uh, maybe 40 million, maybe even 50 million in five years. So that is our goal. And how do we make that vision and reality and the plant put that plan in place. So each year we progress to that goal. And so it’s a, it’s a, it’s a weighing of strategy and then implementation. And how do you marry the two together?

Enrique Alvarez (35:09):

Yeah, no, I just saw a quick question, uh, on that last comment, Steve, and thank you once again for, for being here, it’s always, uh, interesting talking to you. So what, where do you think, uh, it’s an incredible, uh, goal that you have said for yourself and your organization? What is your, uh, what do you think the main bottlenecks to that kind of expansion are as it? Where, in what part of the supply chain is it and what, what are you most kind of worried about when it comes to managing those potential bottlenecks? More, more closely?

Steve Stirling (35:39):

You know, one of the biggest constraint is supply because pharmaceutical companies are not producing these medicines to donate. They are literally giving us products that cannot sell that supply is limited. So then our challenge is, well, how do I increase that supply? And one of the things would looking at is how do we shorten the supply chain management? Because if you could take out two weeks here, two weeks, uh, you know, throughout the process from receiving it to processing it, to storing it and shipping it and getting it shipped and cleared, if you could take off two months out of that process, that could help literally millions more people, because the we’re now having this data product move through the system much quicker. And that’s why looking forward to working with vector and figuring out also, how do we do our warehousing more efficiently? Uh, as an example, if you look at our warehouse, a 40,000 sport warehouse in Brunswick, we have five levels of storage.

Steve Stirling (36:35):

And, but then when you do a deeper says, 30% of volume are the medicines and RX and OTC products, 70% of the volume are health supplies. Well, the health supplies, you don’t have to necessarily store in a temperature controlled, uh, warehouse, which is very costly. So, you know, vector figuring out how do we then do the, um, you know, warehouse the medicines in one location, maybe the supplies in another location and have just in time have it come together. So those are the things we look in the system to make us much more efficient, and then also minimize the future need for additional capital to expand our warehouse. Uh, when, when we double impact in the next five years,

Scott Luton (37:18):

Being in Brunswick, the neat thing you are taking advantage of clearly that we all know here is being really close to one of the fastest growing most capable port sea ports, really certainly in the states, if not in the world. And I’m sure that that helps you take some time out of that, you know, out of the overall end end supply chain. And I would imagine too, Steve, when you’re talking about supply and ramping up supply, if you could take a month or two out of, you know, end to end, uh, your end end supply chain and, and all that processing time and handoffs and transitions that are, that’s a part of any supply chain you would have access maybe perhaps would you have access to more supply and, and, and the companies that support in terms of donating medicines, would there be more options there?

Steve Stirling (38:00):

I believe once we show that we’re having even greater impact, and then we obviously have to then tell the impact stories back to the pharma companies, because they want to hear what impact are their products donations having. And so I think we can show that we’re much more efficient at it and because we’re having greater impact. Yes, I believe that can then to turn to where they say, well, let’s give it to map instead of some other nonprofit and perhaps maybe they’ll even give us more. And the other part of it is in the receiving side, if we can show to governments in that says west Africa, Hey, we can move this very quickly and you can do this on a monthly basis so that you can take the shorter medicines, accept it because you can do it very quickly. And so you can actually use it before expires and help millions more people. So I think on the supply side, but also on the demand side, I believe we can get more governments to say, yes, we’ll take the shorter data medicines. So then we can move it quicker to upon change management.

Scott Luton (38:58):

I’m given, uh, Adrian and Matilda and Enrique heads up. Cause I wanna circle back and get one of your favorite parts about what Steve has shared on the interview. But before we do that, Steve, when, when, when you think about your, the global enterprise that, that you lead and, and you’re helping so people and you wanna do so much more and be in even greater force for good, a as we’re talking to our audience, what’s one thing that might surprise our audience members about, um, a nonprofit, nonprofit O operations, especially as it relates to supply chain or, or distribution of, of your goods, or what have you,

Steve Stirling (39:31):

If you look at the size of map and if you look at our total revenues, because 99% of all we, what we do is gift and kind, uh, we do, we do purchase about a million of product to help round out the order for our customers. So when you look at wow, that a 600 million organization, if you look at the cash to cash side, we’re really only a 10 million cash organization. So think about that. The 10 million of capital is moving 600 million of life changing and oftentimes life saving medicines. And to do that, you have to be very, very good at what you do because I’ve worked in, you know, 20 year, uh, half and half, 20 years in my eight years in corporate America. And now, you know, almost 20 years in, uh, 20 years in nonprofit, our room for error is much smaller in a nonprofit because in corporations that you have bigger budgets.

Steve Stirling (40:29):

If you make a little mistake here, you know, you make it outta some other place with, with the nonprofits, you really don’t, you cannot make too many mistakes, uh, because at some point you run outta capital to stay in business. And so I think one of the challenges, how do you grow and do it in a way that’s responsible because we are using donor dollars, we don’t get money from government. And so we get some money from corporations, some foundations that’s, it’s all private funding. So that’s a challenge. How do we then grow? And, and, and, and we really invite corporations come with us because I don’t think you’re gonna be able to get a return where you help 20 million people get access to life, changing medicine from 10 million capital of cash. And then obviously, uh, gifting kind gets donated if

Scott Luton (41:15):

You’re listening to today’s podcast. Hey, and you’re looking to, to use, uh, your resources for good, and especially in a historically challenging year in a time when so many people, as Steve has mentioned 2 billion people that don’t don’t have access to what they need. Hey, reach out. We’re, we’re gonna, we’re gonna make sure you have map internationals content information and get involved in, in the good fight. All right. So I wanna circle back. There’s so much here. I, I love this conversation and I wanna start with you. I wanna circle back through our panel here. What’s, what’s one thing that Steve has shared today that really hits home for you. Well,

Enrique Alvarez (41:49):

Uh, you’re absolutely right about one thing, Scott, and there’s just so many things to own package here that it just could be another one hour conversation just to kind of like try to assimilate all the things that we have listened and learned. And again, it’s just been a pleasure to kind of meet and, uh, get to know Steve better. And, and again, Steve, thank you very much for doing this, the whole point of us having this, uh, series or this opportunity used to share inspirational stories like yours, because we believe that sharing them pretty much in the same way that you kind of came to the conclusion that you had to write a book. I think that’s the best way of really changing the world and, and we believe, uh, deeply and passionately about making it possible impact in the world as well. But, um, answering your question, Scott, I, I kind of wrote two.

Enrique Alvarez (42:34):

Um, then I’ll just go with, uh, with both real quick, one’s just your fearless attitude. I mean, you’re, it’s just incredibly brave what you’ve done. Like every single aspect of what you’ve done from one point to the other, to where you are now, it’s just took some, a lot of courage, right. Uh, and, and I think that’s something that, uh, that I take and, and I, and I will actually share with my kids in particular and other people that I know, because I think that, uh, something very important that tells me your story tells me, is that you should not always pay too much attention to what other people say or think that you can do or cannot do, including your own parents when they were questioning your, your ambition to go into business school or one of the top schools in the us. And, and here you are. So, yeah, that’s, that’s one thing. And, uh, I’ll probably just let the others mention something before I say something that they might,

Scott Luton (43:26):

You still thunder in Rek

Enrique Alvarez (43:28):

Thinking of yeah. Still wanna, they wanna steal your, your, their thunder, but no, just, it’s just, I I’ve always admired people that, that go against the flow and, and, and Steve for, for sure is one of those, uh, great leaders that does that. So

Scott Luton (43:45):

Bold. All right. So Adrian, you’re about to say something. Yeah.

Adrian Purtill (43:47):

I, I there’s, you know, two, uh, incidents that come up, which, uh, which I really love that, that Steve’s talked about is, is, uh, how, how his sister ran with the candy and, and that’s what started everything for him on his, on his journey. Uh, just, just, just an incredible story that just his, his, um, proposal marriage proposal to, uh, to Suki from a, from a, almost a zero base and, and, and how successful, that was just a, an amazing story. But through it all, just Steve’s, uh, resilience, uh, his perseverance and his determination to succeed, uh, is just awe inspiring. And, uh, I I’m sure his, his, his staff and, and colleagues and, and friends around the world are just see him as a very, very dynamic, late, uh, leader, uh, and a very, uh, gracious and humble human being as well. And that that’s, that’s what comes through so strongly with, uh, talking to Steve.

Scott Luton (44:38):

Well, put Adrian well put Matilda.

Matilda Arhin (44:40):

Yes, I am always all inside when I am thinking of Steve, because I come from a place, wait, uh, Steve is talking about some of the 2 billion, uh, affected by some of the issues that I think we all aware of marginalized communities and all that. So, um, for me, uh, first of all, I’m so grateful to en probably have to go cause en the culture of en really fits into some of the things that people doing. And one thing I took from there is perfect or hurt people if they do not have the help they need. So for Steve to even go to school and come and take out to the least the marginally, the people that are really suffer now in his position, it makes me understand the mindset of children that do need help that need to talking to, you know, but then again, um, Adrian also pressure the part of that, God can even use candy to change somebody’s life.

Matilda Arhin (45:35):

For me, having been here in the United States for so long, the benevolence of the people of viewers that they come together to help and fix things, you know, globally teach parents, God, I would love to get to meet your mother because the fight they have to put up to even change the laws to come and pick you guys up. I’m glad I have glasses on because I come from a place where I see things like that, and kids are changed to change for three years cause of their disabilities or what it is, and they get brilliant kids. So for me, it’s quite an inspir. I have to hold myself from not getting to emotion. Now when I talk. So I am grateful for them here with Steve and also en constantly help and with books, Steve with medicine, and it’s just, I’m, I’m grateful to be here. So I take that to give children the hope. So the book that I’m reading, I am going to take it to an offer week and make sure that I talk to them, understand what I do not give hope, and it can continue your life.

Scott Luton (46:37):

Matilda. Thanks so much for sharing that. Uh, uh, a lot of what you just shared there resonated certainly with me, and I bet lot, lots of folks of our audience kind of piggybacking piggyback. I think that’s right on what each of y’all have shared. It takes me back to where it all started with Steve’s sister, the candy, and it’s amazing the impact, what a simple act of kindness, what it can do. And, and, and you never know, you never know what folks are struggling with other than more than what you see. And just that simple act of kindness, playing such a big part of, of this legacy of service and, and, and tackling the worlds is and problems. So love that. Thanks for each of y’all for sharing. So, Steve, I, I’m hoping that through this interview here today, as we publish it and get it out to our global community, that folks will, maybe a couple folks will step up and want to help support the mission and, and connect with you. How can they connect with you and with map international?

Steve Stirling (47:31):

Well, thank you again, Scott, it’s been such a pleasure to be part of this show. And again, I wanna thank, uh, and, and Adrian and nada for just what, what you do, cuz you do what your work with the passion and for purpose too, not just to move product, but also to help really, how do you make a difference in life? And thank you for, uh, being part of, uh, with map. Uh, you can go to, uh, map.org and you can get involved in a number of different ways. You can volunteer to packing of disaster health kids at your organization. That could be a team building or a donations. Again, cost us money to move these containers of medicines. Even with that service fee, you only cover about a third of our operating costs. Cause every year we have to raise 10 million to do this work, to help, uh, 13 plus million people around the world get access to medicine. So again, dot org. And if I can finish, uh, with couple stories, if that’s okay with you, Scott. Sure,

Scott Luton (48:29):

Please. We’d love to hear, I I’d love to hear thousands more stories from you, Steve. I, I

Steve Stirling (48:34):

Love it. Two stories. One is the impact that, um, map medicines making through our partners. Uh, we work with the Carter center in Liberia as an example, and there other great examples and the Carter center, they trained the mental health workers, 230 class mental health workers in Liberia. And they, as you know, that country has gone through a civil war, many, many other, uh, Ebola and other challenges and, and, uh, Matilda, you know, what life like in Ghana and other places as well with trauma. And so, but when they trained the mental health workers, they didn’t have any medicine, they didn’t have the mental health medicine. So the, then we, we partner with, with, uh, Carter center and we provide the psychotropic medicine so that people for the healthcare, uh, provider to now provide, um, mental health medicine. So give an example. One of the, um, biggest challenges, uh, is epilepsy.

Steve Stirling (49:26):

And when people go into epileptic, seizure in, uh, library and other parts of the world, people literally beat them with a stick thinking that they have to drive out the evil spirit. Wow. Can you imagine getting beat while you going through this epilepsy seizure? And so now with the medicine, uh, epilepsy medicine, they don’t, they can live a normal life. And that, that’s just an example. Again, map provides that to the Carter center and to the country of labor barrier for free. And again, that takes fun to do that. And the second story, uh, the last story would be, uh, I, uh, was working, uh, this was many years, probably about 15 years ago. So I was in, uh, Cambodia and I was with a group of disabled, uh, young adults. And because I had crutches and leg braces, they opened up to me and, and, and shared this story.

Steve Stirling (50:13):

Uh, one young woman had a prosthetic leg. So I asked her what happened. And she said, when she was 12 years old, she was outside playing. She steps on a nail and the nail goes through her foot. Now that’s very painful. But in the United States, you just go to the doctor and get a tetanus shot and some, uh, a penicillin you’re, you’re, you’re fine. A week later. Well, her family could not afford to send her a doctor. So they treated a foot with some, uh, some, uh, urban medicine and to make a long story to her where she had to go to the doctor, gang green had to set in and they had to amputate her leg above the knee. And she said she was so ashamed of being, not a whole person, uh, because in that country, if you have any disability, either at birth or do it to an accident, uh, they think you or your parent has sinned and God is punishing you.

Steve Stirling (51:04):

And so she said she would not come out of her hut, not a house, a hut for a year because she didn’t feel like a whole person. And so, uh, a, a one week course of antibiotic would have prevented that from happening. Just think about that one, you know, for medicines that we could for free antibiotics would prevented her from lifelong, um, trauma of not being a whole, a person, cuz she lost a leg by stepping in a nail. And you know, I, I think the many listeners, uh, know the historian in the Bible in John chapter nine, when the disciples asked Jesus, why was this man born blind? Did he sin or parents sin. And, and he, Jesus answered neither he or parents sin in, but God allowed to happen. So the glory of God could be shown in this person’s life. And I, I sort of feel like I’m that person, because I sometimes wonder, you know, why was I reflected with polio? But then I realized it was really, it was a, it’s a privilege because now I get to be able to share this work with people by saying, Hey, let’s I advocate for people with disabilities who don’t have to get disabled because you can take these medicines, you know, hypertension, cardiovascular, diabetes, all this, uh, chronic diseases can be prevented and treated if you, if you get the right medicine and this is why I’m so excited about maps work and what we’re doing around the world.

Scott Luton (52:27):

I’m gonna ask you one additional question here, I think as a, as a leader and, and your perspective so much of this relates, at least in my mind, back to leadership and effective leadership based on your collective journey to date, you know, you’ve shared so much here and, and just to surf that just to, you know, tip it iceberg. But if folks are listening to this and maybe they’re just starting their career, maybe they haven’t managed just yet. Maybe they haven’t led any big initiative just yet. Maybe they’re on the beginning of their whole professional journey. What would be one really effective leadership best practice that you’d share with them?

Steve Stirling (53:01):

What comes to mind is, is trust yet to really trust to people you work with and then also excellence. You expect the best out of people, uh, not the worst, but the best. So when you do that, people will usually deliver, you have to have a vision and to lead where you’re going, but assuming that’s there, most, most places have vision and mission and all of that, but how do you make it happen? And so you gotta trust the people that you work with and they expect the best. And when you do that things really good things happen.

Scott Luton (53:32):

Trust is, is such a, um, important aspect of the whole equation and, and, you know, expecting the best, you know, that’s what helps fuel global supply chains, right? That, that trusting in your suppliers, trusting in your colleagues and trusting frankly, in your leadership. Right. But let’s one final. So the crutch of success, you can find that anywhere. I believe, I think it’s, it’s all major bookstores and providers is that right? See

Steve Stirling (53:58):

That’s right, Amazon, but I would actually appreciate it. If you go to the ma.org and then you could actually, uh, find it there because then, uh, you’ll get a copy. And then all of the donation goes to map, uh, if you buy it on Amazon, I think we get about a dollar 72, uh, of that purchase. But whereas you get it from us directly, uh, then then a hundred percent of it goes to, uh, the maps work

Scott Luton (54:23):

Outstanding. I didn’t had no idea. I outstanding. So map.org is a place to go, of course, to our listeners. We’ll include that in the show notes so that you it’s, it’s one click. That’s what we’re after here. All right. Enrique old, Greg white. Couldn’t join us here today. Uh, he, a lot of times gets our last word. Enrique Alvarez is gonna get our last word here on today’s conversation. So Enrique,

Enrique Alvarez (54:43):

Well, thank you very much for giving me such a long heads up on that, but, uh, we definitely miss Greg white. No. Um, my last word is just, thank you. I, I, I think this is, this is the, the word that I want everyone else to, to leave with. It’s just, thank you. I think Steve, you are, uh, you and your organization and your purpose are, um, inspirational in so many different ways that I’m pretty sure that people, uh, will listen to and, and see this podcast and, and learn a couple of things here and there. And as you said, then just trust, trust that you, that you have to then go out there and do it right. There’s no easy way out.

Scott Luton (55:24):

Absolutely. And, and on behalf, the entire team here, Steve really appreciate what you, uh, and, and the map international team is doing would love to help, you know, grow, you know, going from 20 million people serve to 50 and beyond. Let’s get after those 2 billion, right. And working together with you and all the other wonderful folks that are, that are serving those in needs. So really appreciate not just your journey, uh, and the mission, but the action, the real action you and the team are taking to help folks that that really are in need. Steve, appreciate what you

Steve Stirling (55:55):

Do. Well, thank you very much for having me on your show.

Scott Luton (55:57):

We’ve been talking with Steve Sterling, president CEO of map international. Be sure to go to map.org, be in the show notes, learn more, figure out how you can, you can get involved in their out standing mission and get a copy of the book, uh, which will help, uh, further the mission along big, thanks to our panel of co-hosts. Y’all knocked it outta the park today. Matilda RN, uh, thanks so much Matilda for joining us. Appreciate your perspective.

Matilda Arhin (56:22):

Thank if I have any that’s wonderful.

Scott Luton (56:25):

You bet. And of course, Adrian, Parilla Adrian. Great to see you again.

Adrian Purtill (56:28):

Thank you. You two Scott, and it’s been a pleasure as always.

Scott Luton (56:31):

Absolutely. And of course, Enrique Alvarez appreciate what you do. And the vector global logistics team does as it powers this logistics with purpose series to bring stories like this, that of folks are doing good. They’re changing the world to our, our listenership. Thank you, Scott. All right. So, you know, we, we started today’s episode, uh, we produced almost 500 episodes and for the first time ever, we started with a prayer. Uh, so I’m gonna wrap in a little bit more of a unique fashion. Cause what, what I heard here today brings to mine a great phrase that, that I learned, uh, from our small group at church and it’s, uh, practice PTK every day. So patience tolerance, and of course kindness, uh, big seminal aspects of Steve’s journey. And, and that’s the challenge here today. So practice PTK every day on that note on behalf of our entire team here at supply chain. Now this is Scott Luton signing off here today. Hey, do good. Give forward. Be the change that’s needed. Be like Steve Sterlings of the world, the world be a better place. And we’ll see you next time here on Supply Chain Now.