In this week’s Dial P audio podcast, Kelly Barner shares a special interview with Constance Jones, Senior Director of Network Delivery Services at NMSDC. NMSDC is the National Minority Supplier Development Council. They are responsible for certifying minority-owned business so that they can strengthen their partnerships with corporate supplier diversity programs.

Kelly conducted this interview as part of the LinkedIn Creator Accelerator program she was selected to participate in as a member of the first creator group. Listen in as Constance shares her passion and ability to present a business case in equal measure.

Intro/Outro (00:01):

Welcome to dial P for procurement, the show focused on today’s biggest spin supplier and contract management related business opportunities. Dial P investigates, the nuanced and constantly evolving boundary of the procurement supply chain divide with a broadcast of engaged executives, providers, and thought leaders give us an hour and we’ll provide you with a new perspective on supply chain value. And now it’s time to dial P for procurement.

Kelly Barner (00:31):

Hi there, and thanks for joining me for dial P for procurement. Part of the supply chain. Now family of shows, I’m Kelly Barner, a career procurement practitioner with love for business news, and most of all good ideas, no matter where they come from. In addition to video interviews and live streams, I’ll join you each Thursday to share my point of view on a current news story that presents an interesting twist for business leaders or a new way of looking at a common challenge. Before I share this week interview, we’re building out dial P’s independent following. So no matter where you encountered this podcast, I’d ask you to subscribe and even give us a review. Thank you in advance for being an active part of our listening community. You hear all kinds of things on dial P. Trust me if you happen to be new here.

Kelly Barner (01:22):

And this will week, I have a really special interview to share from January 10th through March 18th, I was one of the first 100 people in the United States to go through LinkedIn’s creator accelerator program. When I applied for the program back in September, I had to provide information about myself, but I also had to propose a project and I selected supplier diversity. One interview I really wanted to have throughout the entire project was with a representative of NM S D C the national minority supplier development council. They are responsible for certifying minority on businesses so that they can strengthen their partnerships with corporate supplier diversity programs. The conversation was amazing. And luckily for you, I got their permission to share the audio from the entire interview here on dial P Constance Jones, who you’ll meet in just a moment is the senior director of network delivery services at N D. I started our conversation by asking if she would share a little bit more about her role, and that is where we’ll pick up the conversation now.

Constance Jones (02:34):

So I am, um, my name is Constance Jones, and I’ve been a part of the N M S D C ecosystem now for, um, almost 25 years. Um, my first initial introduction into N M S D C was at one of its regional affiliates in the Houston area. So I was with the Houston minority supplier development council. Since then I’ve been a corporate member with a national corporate organization. I’ve been an B myself that was certified, um, but always went back to, um, the N M S D C branch. Um, because, cause I just found it to be my home and really be able to help and support minority businesses as they are on this journey to gain access to, um, you know, America’s free enterprise. I joined N M S D C in August of 2020 in the pandemic to be able to provide some continuity and, um, some support for our minority businesses and our, uh, regional councils.

Constance Jones (03:52):

So typically today in my role and the field operations department of N M S D C, I am responsible for all 23 regional councils and their affiliation with the national organization. Um, my department is responsible for the certification policy, um, and how that is a ministered through each of our regional councils. Uh, we work closely with our minority business enterprise input committee, which is the committee that was created at each of our regions and at the national office to provide input into the workings of the organization to ensure that we are beneficial for them, as well as to just ensuring that the regional councils are having a great mixture of program services and activities that’s adding value to our corporate members.

Kelly Barner (04:49):

So you are definitely focused on a daily basis on really making active progress towards making sure companies learn and benefit and take advantage of the opportu associated with this kind of a certification.

Constance Jones (05:03):

Absolutely. And how to do that. And, and, um, ensuring that at a, at a regional level, that our boots on the ground are providing those types of resources and avenues for ours and, and corporate members.

Kelly Barner (05:18):

Now, one of the things that, so I saw it on the corporate side, I’ve also heard it from pretty much everyone that I spoke to is that dating from 2020, there’s been an enormous surge of corporations starting new supplier diversity programs. I mean, it’s not that they didn’t exist prior to that. They certainly did, but it’s sort of been this expectation in the, in the couple of years since that anybody, it does not have one really needs to actively be thinking about starting it. Did you see that? Did you feel the, the impact of that surge from your perspective?

Constance Jones (05:51):

Absolutely so, and, and we are constantly, uh, seeing that continuing to happen as corporations are continuing to make pledges. So with the issues that happened over the last, um, you know, couple years, so you had the murder of George Floyd, you had the campaign, the stop Asian hate, you had political unrest that was happening. It gave people the opportunity to have a safe space to come out and start having the real discussion around the effectiveness and the creation and the real reason for supplier diversity programs. And so, like you mentioned, yes, we’ve always had programs, but now this was really a rallying cry and call to action of, um, generations of standing up and making a real strong commitment to reduce the economic parity that’s happening in communities of color. And so that’s where we’re seeing an increased effort, um, from our corporate members to be able to support those communities, as well as we are just saying a better platform to start really having a difficult conversation, um, to understand the real value behind, um, economic parity for communities of color.

Kelly Barner (07:20):

And I think it’s interesting that you, you bring up having difficult conversations, um, because I do think that there’s a certain amount of discomfort when it gets into the details. You know, it’s very easy to say, you know, we believe in equal opportunity or we wanna make sure that all communities are represented. That’s sort of the happy externally facing message that a CEO or, or someone a board member gets to deliver. But when it actually comes to the day to day, what do we need to do to deliver against that kind of a message. It gets a lot messier, um, from your perspective, are today’s corporate supplier diversity programs as effective as they could be.

Constance Jones (08:02):

I definitely think you have some that are effective, but there’s always room for improvement, right? We, we have several corporate members that do a phenomenal job at growing minority businesses, but we just, uh, embark on a journey. One of our regional councils, the Michigan minority supplier development council actually did a study with at the time an called supplier IO. And they did a study that, that determined that it would take 333 years. If we continued on this same path for, um, minorities to reach economic parity, I don’t foresee myself being around in 333 years.

Kelly Barner (08:50):

Not even with more vacation time.

Constance Jones (08:52):

That’s what even my children, I, I, I don’t, I don’t see that realization. Um, but with the addition of making a 1% year to year pledge to do more business in the communities of color, we can drastically that to 15 years. That’s a call to action that any corporation, no matter where they are today, have the ability to truly, truly make an impact and strong commitment to do better to, and, and further the development of what we’re here to accomplish. And so where we say our there, you know, is supply diversity effective AB absolutely. It can be an effective tool within the major corporations to be able to garner a lot of success for that corporation, but is there room for us to be able to do more in order to slash that real, that economic that we’re all fighting to, to promote? Absolutely it is. And that study was just one example of op of opportunity that we saw come to light that will be able to, to allow us to do that.

Kelly Barner (10:09):

And it’s funny that you, you mentioned that study, I do actually work with supplier IO and I’ve read that study. It’s unbeliev. Interesting. Yes. And I will tell you, it’s funny hearing, you sort of share back with me the information from that, because I think, you know, you take that number 333 years. I mean, that’s just mind blowing, right? It’s such an unbelievably long time, but when you instead focus on the 1% investment and the 15 years, it completely changes how you feel about the 333, because it puts the power in our hands as individuals to say, well, which one do I want? Because I’m the 1% right? My decisions are that 1%. So through the work that I do on a daily basis and procurement, I get to decide, is it going to be 15, or is it going to be 333? And I think that’s an empowering message. If we can put it in front of the right people and give them the tools and the time and the talent that they need to actually act on it.

Constance Jones (11:12):

Absolutely. I can’t agree with you more. I think that’s just about telling the, a story and that’s what I think the power lies over the last couple years that this, that, that, unfortunately those moments allowed us to change the momentum of having this discussion. And right now, minority business development and supplier development and business development is a real conversation that you’re seeing a lot of people rallying around and starting to have in order to really face some of these hard conversations, but also some of these hard realities and start saying, yes, now, which one do I wanna be a part of? Do I really wanna make an impact and, and a movement, um, in the next 15 years? Or do I just wanna continue to say, yeah, I understand it’s importance, but I’m gonna leave it for, or the next few generations to have to deal with. And so that’s the decision and the dilemma that, um, we’re being forced to address.

Kelly Barner (12:22):

Yeah. Well, and it’s, and it’s interesting too, because it’s not even necessarily one challenge. I mean, addressing supplier diversity on the business to consumer side is a enormously different from addressing it on the business to business side. And there are so many different stakeholder groups. In fact, I was trying to list out, you know, who are all of the different people that might care and have a voice and be able to sort of speak out and lead this. I mean, certainly CEOs don’t wanna be the only one with a company that doesn’t have an effect active program, but consumers, I feel like really have the loudest microphone right now to get, uh, company attention. But we’ve also seen input from regulators. We’ve seen certainly around federal contracts and in some cases, state contracts, you know, you, you have to include and address these businesses in your spend, but investors are, are getting more activists. Um, do you see varying levels of inability to drive impact? You know, would you say for instance, that it’s individual consumers when they combine their voices that have the greatest ability to drive change or does that fall to a CEO or an investor group? Um, do all of those different people pushing for diversity in slightly different ways sort of come together to lead that change?

Constance Jones (13:40):

Yeah, I, I think that’s an awesome question and it’s an awesome realization because all of it matters, right. And we are definitely seeing it from all of those different perspectives because that’s really what makes the in turn. And if you look at ’em collectively as a whole, that’s how decisions are made. So I’ll start, I’ll just break down each of those groups that, that you’re, that you’re talking about. So, you know, recently we, we are seeing the gen X and I mean, the gen Z and the populations really are, um, taking a stronger, uh, hold on the notion of diversity and supply diversity and actually leading efforts with their votes and their money, right? So they are saying, Hey, we wanna, we want to focus on these causes because they are important to us. So they’re very cause driven. And that cause driven is allowing them to speak out more freely than ever before, as it related to things that were, customly not customarily, wouldn’t be discussed in a business environment.

Constance Jones (14:59):

So they’re just coming into the workplace, they are really driving some of that from a workforce perspective, then you have invest and you’re seeing a lot more investment companies yes. That are creating and, or looking at ways to have a greater impact than communities of color. So now some of your larger, um, private equity firms are creating opportunities and, and, or creating part partnerships in order to look at ways to invest in minority firms, to grow them to scale and capacity, to compete for business with their major corporations. Traditionally, you’ve not had those type of scalable business who could compete in corporate supply chains. So there are, they’re looking at this now, as it’s no longer just an option in order to invest in non-minority companies, investing in minority companies and growing them to scale, there is some leverage and opportunity there that allows these firms to be scalable.

Constance Jones (16:09):

And I would say that, you know, I recognize and applaud N S D for the work that they’re doing in that space, because we actually created the first of its kind program. That’s allowing investment firms to invest in minority businesses, scaled to that size and continue their certification. And so we currently have a few companies that are actually trading on the NASDAQ that is still a certified business within SDC. That’s awesome. Right. That’s interesting. That’s huge. Yeah. Um, and so we’re, we’re working on ways that we can do more of that to, to be able to exhibit and show that minority businesses mean great business, not just big businesses, but great businesses that have a, a real major impact. And then you have, of course, the CEO who has a board and shareholders that they have to be responsive to. And so what we’re seeing is that when they make that pledge to, to say, we’re gonna focus, not just on supplier diversity, but, um, not just on business diversity within the organization, meaning from an employment standpoint, but we’re really gonna focus on supplier diversity. What they’re seeing is that the agility, the innovation of our minority businesses at actually allows them to increase market, share, have a dedicated, um, customer, you know, expand their customer base and also be a lot more competitive in the market. And so when we begin to have those discussions and, and be able to exhibit these types of things, they could really understand how those, how that impact really plays a huge value in everything that they’re focused on as well as still providing that good touch and feel, um, message out into the communities.

Kelly Barner (18:06):

Know what I like about what you’re pointing at out is that I think, and I’ll, and again, this is sort of my, like my bad in procurement. You know, we think so often that the most important way to help, uh, diverse businesses of all kinds is simply to award them with contracts and money is great. I mean, everybody wants more contracts and more money. It, it feels growth, but there is also a very different type of investment. And that is knowledge. It’s helping them scale as they get bigger, it’s helping them serve a large client. I mean, it’s a very different thing going from serving companies that are, they’re about to the same size as you to getting a really large enterprise customer and companies should go in expecting that if they really do wanna make a difference, it may require more than just the contract. What are the types of things that corporations can do to ensure that they go beyond signing the contract, paying the contract on time, all of those table stakes things to actually build a meaningful relationship with minority owned, diverse owned businesses so that they get the maximum value out of that partnership.

Constance Jones (19:19):

Yeah, that, that, that is a great question because that’s a change in mindset. That’s actually the stop looking at the firm as a supplier, but as a partner. And that’s the very first key into allowing and having sustainable relationships within corporations. So you’re right. It’s not just about that contract, but it’s actually about growing the capacity of these firms so that as they have that contract they’re in other areas of their business, that’s allowing them to become a real sustainable partner for that particular corporation. Um, it, it, it also allows our minority businesses to look at non-traditional areas that within the corporation may be of complex them, but they have partnered with this B E firm. That’s allowing them to show that they have the capability to be able to do work in those nontraditional areas. And so we’re finding a lot of that and, and it was very, um, we, we saw most of it during the height of COVID right.

Constance Jones (20:32):

You saw firms that started to pivot and, you know, we had, we had minority firms that was actually a distillery. Now they start, uh, creating that’s right hand sanitizer. Right. And so never in a million years, would they thought that they would be doing hand sanitizer, but they were able to leverage the knowledge that they had gained the capacity of work that they were doing with consumers to now be able to change and fit into a supply chain where there was having a lot of difficulties at the moment. And so it’s those types of, um, relationship building and partnerships that our corporations can seek out with these firms in order to help them do get business. A lot of that too, Kelly is when you look at a smaller firm, right. We hear all the time that corporations say, you know, it’s really difficult for me to do business with like a class one or a class two, especially in some of these high intensive capital market businesses.

Constance Jones (21:46):

Yeah. But it’s okay. Hey, to form, uh, an Alliance or create a joint venture type relationship with these firms to say, okay, we recognize that you may not have the capacity today, but if we partner you with one of our primes, and while you’re working on the business, you’re also in the business to grow your insurance requirements, bonding requirements, um, your infras, your back office infrastructure, your capacity and capability. Then one day you ultimately could be the prime. And, and so it’s really that out of the box, thinking that’s gonna get us at me slope.

Kelly Barner (22:29):

Now, one of the things, and I’ll admit, I, you know, I try to be positive. This particular thing is a worry for me. I see sort of two things happening at the corporate level that concern me about where supplier diversity may be going. Next one is that some companies are sort of folding supplier diversity up into larger ESG initiatives, where it’s competing for attention and resources and regulatory oversight with things like environmental sustainability, right? It’s a, it’s a very different kind of program than sustainability, but sometimes they’re getting concerned. And I worry that that takes our eye off the ball a little bit. When it, you know, again, back to that 333 or 15, I, I worry about not having dedicated attention on diversity. And the other is the undeniable challenge that companies and individual people are all facing right now, which is sort of the combination of inflation, fuel prices, uh, you know, shortages of labor. There are so many economic challenge is that we’re facing in parallel. How can we keep our eye on the ball? I mean, we can’t keep things the same things are never gonna stay the same, but with all of this competition for attention and emotion and energy and effort, how can we, we make sure we stay fixated on the pledges and commitments that we made, but also the work that needs to be done.

Constance Jones (23:50):

Yeah, I think that’s, I, I think, um, you hit the, you hit the prob you identified the problem, um, correctly. And I would say that we keep our focus by producing a scorecard, right? And so oftentimes we do get easily diverted from what the main goal of what it is we are trying to accomplish. But if you continue to publish a scorecard, then that’s going to drive the focus, right? Because no one wants to be embarrassed or no one wants to not honor the commitment that they’ve made to these types of programs. So even if it is under ESG or if they are, you know, having to switch their focus on other larger issues, if they know at the end of that fiscal year, they’ll have to produce a scorecard. That’s attached to the behavior specifically in this particular area, they, they will not lose the focus on that. And so that is again, partially the accountability role that we’re asking of our corporate members to be able to hold them accountable for making sure that they don’t lose sight of why we’re really here.

Kelly Barner (25:15):

And that’s such important advice because obviously the idea of accountability is something that everybody wants to work towards. But when you can get a specific, as, you know, you have a scorecard with different Cape APIs or goals, or however you’re managing your metrics and it’s associated with a behavior, I think that makes it easier for people to understand what they need to change about the way they work and think to also see the numbers on that scorecard shift, which is sort of the evidence of the effort that we’re putting in.

Constance Jones (25:44):

Absolutely. And, and when you start thinking of the, about it, like, think about the messaging a as you just said, and, and highlight it, you know, take some personal ownership in that. How, how would, how good is it, um, and how would you feel if you are saying that, oh my God, I’ve made such a impact in moving the needle on here, making a real commitment and adhering to that commitment in the 15 years that it will take to reach economic parity versus still just talking about it. That’s a warm and fuzzy story that anybody could get behind. And so it really allows the individual to take some ownership and how we, um, our minority businesses. So, yeah, I think, I think what you said is, is definitely spot on that. Being able to see that inside of your organization and understand your role, that it takes all of us to make a true commitment is, is really powerful.

Kelly Barner (26:45):

And once that mindset shift starts to happen, I think all of the communities that traditionally get covered by supplier diversity programs will see the benefit. But one of the things that I’ve also tried to understand better is, you know, we talk about supplier diversity. Like it’s one big program, but it’s, it’s really not. I mean, what it requires to move the noodle needle for disabled business owners, right. Is different than what it takes for veterans and what it takes to change. The, I don’t know, progress we’re making with women owned businesses is different than what it takes with minority owned or LGBTQ owned businesses. It’s all, you know, everybody sort of has strengths in different places and is trying to make progress and get representation for different reasons. What would you say is unique about minority owned businesses when compared to women LGBTQ veteran, disabled individuals, what is unique about the minority business community?

Constance Jones (27:48):

I would say that we cover all of them, right? That that’s what make us unique. I can be a minority woman, LGBTQ disabled vet, right. I fit all five of those criteria. So, so that’s the value in focusing on a certification that does ethnicity and covers all of those. When you look at the opportunity that a disabled vet or woman owned or LGBTQ plus, they focus on those individual things. But as a minority, I can focus on them all. And I, I, I think that provides a lot of value. And when we talk about representing different communities, we are representing all of them, right. It, it just happens to be a, our predominantly focus is on ethnicity. And so I think there’s room for everyone, right. I think, and that’s why we’ve made a concentrated effort under, uh, our new CEO and president’s leadership to partner with all of those agents. Because when we all come together, we really do identify and understand that, that there are a, a lot more similarities than they are differences. And, but each of our differences bring something wonderful to the table that really could help create some value in our corporate, in corporate America supply chain.

Kelly Barner (29:31):

Yeah. And, and it ends up being an interesting conversation because I think of the business owners that I’ve spoken to, and I’m just doing like a quick scan in my head. I think maybe only a couple of them did not belong to multiple categories, especially when you bring sort of the small angle into it. I mean, almost everybody cuz small doesn’t really mean sort of small in the neighborhood sense. So almost everybody fits into that, but then there are women, then there are veterans, then there are minorities, right? There’s, there’s such a cross section of representation within that group. I love the fact, I know there’s this sort of cross cause council that all of the different groups have come together and are working in, are there associated changes that we may be moving towards around how the certifications are managed? So that for instance, I, I don’t need to make the decision. Okay. I have to get a certification for being a woman and I have to get a certification for being disabled. So first I’m gonna get woman cuz more people seem interested in that and then secondarily I’ll get disabled. What order do I list them in? Um, should it be as separate as it is today or does their need to be some sort of a broader, more overarching? Yes. I am certified by a reputable organization as fitting into one or more of these categories to lower the administrative burden on suppliers.

Constance Jones (30:53):

Yeah. I think that’s always the goal. Right. I, I don’t, if, if I had a magic wand, I unfortunately I wouldn’t be able to, to figure out what that looks like yeah. For the future. But I would say that the ultimate goal of all of our organizations is to mitigate the duplicity of having to do the same things over and over again. So if I am a ethnic woman, LGBTQ disabled veteran, all of us ask for the same information from the standpoint of my, who I am and my business true. So if there was a way that all of that information could be captured so that I’m not having to put all that information in multiple databases and then whatever makes it particular for me to be able to certify that would, that would be helpful. Right. But we just don’t know the answer to that.

Constance Jones (31:57):

I can say that we are definitely looking at ways to streamline that process, not just at N M S D C, but um, with those other partners to see if there’s a way that we could actually help mitigate that. And um, you know, I always tell firms when, um, I was at the local level and they would ask me, does it make sense to get all these certifications? The first thing I would tell ’em is that’s a business decision, right? You have to understand what all those certifications are meant to do and how will they support your business and then understand how they work with your customer is your customer or your potential customer engaged within these organizations. And they want to see you there, if that’s the case then absolutely. Um, if that’s not the case, then look and see, are you really a advantage of all of the opportunities these different organizations have to offer? You know, it doesn’t help that. And I would always use the analogy of the gym. I could go out and give five gym memberships to all the largest gym locations. But if I never walk through the door, what good are the membership?

Kelly Barner (33:14):

Right.

Constance Jones (33:15):

Right. So it’s the same with these organizations. I can go out and get every certification that I’m eligible for. But if I’m really not utilizing the certifications to the best of my ability and effectiveness, that’s really gonna support my organization. Then what could are they?

Kelly Barner (33:35):

Yeah. And I will say, um, and I’ve said this to each of the businesses as well, the diverse owned businesses certified diverse owned businesses that are doing an excellent job leveraging their certifications would have been rock stars. If it didn’t exist, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, you’re either successful or you’re not successful. People work hard. People have great creative idea is, and you can see why the companies that are so effective at leveraging their certifications are just so well rounded, successful as, as business owners. But there has to be like you’re saying there has to be that business case there, right. Where they can connect in ability to get a specific customer or go government con contracts or charge a premium or demonstrate some kind of specific expertise. There does have to be a value proposition beyond simply the identity connection.

Constance Jones (34:30):

Right. I agree.

Kelly Barner (34:33):

Now, can I ask you, what advice would you give if I could bring you all of the chief procurement officers and are diversity officers for major corporations and make them sit and listen until you were done sharing your thoughts, what advice would you give them?

Constance Jones (34:49):

I would definitely say that so that minority business development in order to be effective for the next in the next 50 years has to become a business diversity problem and not just supplier diversity from the perspective of it has to get out of procurement and get into different lines of business within the organizations for them to stop thinking, even if it’s centralized or decentralized purchasing minority businesses is, are just suppliers, right? That that’s right. That we have to start looking at other areas within our corporations in order to be able to do business with those corporations. So we have people in professional services, we have lawyers, we have, you know, we have expertise and, and other nontraditional areas that, um, have the cap capacity to do business. And even if we don’t, we have the opportunity to start investing and those areas to create opportunities.

Constance Jones (35:55):

Forbes, think about it. If I’ve tra traditionally not had the opportunity to do business in a certain area and it’s capital intensive, why would that be the business that I want to start? Right. Right. It has high barrier entry, but it also has high return. But if I’m not even eligible to start looking at a contract opportunity, that wouldn’t be the best route outtake versus it’s easier for us to start businesses that are in very saturated markets, but then that’s when competition is extremely high. And so we have to start looking at some of these areas where there’s no minorities or little to no minorities start opening that up and having a discussion of why, and then what needs to happen in order for more minorities to, to, to be able to do their business. That takes, that takes even a, a bigger commitment because not only now are you’re looking at supply diversity teams to help you in, um, areas, you know, in general market areas. Now you’re saying let’s really look at technology and marketing and, um, finance in, in all of these other pieces. And, and that’s what I would share with them would be where do we go from here?

Kelly Barner (37:22):

Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s an excellent two excellent things that, that you point out there that it has to be beyond procurement. I, 100% agree with you. I think we have the, the tools and the process in insight and the opportunity to make it happen. But it, it has to be owned by everyone. It has to be bigger than, than just us. But I think, you know, and no one has said this to me so far. So I, you know, I love the access to new ideas is that we’re currently only looking for diverse own businesses where we can find them or be moaning areas where they don’t exist. We’re not stopping to ask structurally or systematically, why do they not exist in these areas? And what do we need to change? Because if skills and opportunity are truly equally distributed, then we should have sort of a complete scattering of where our tech CEOs come from and where our financial bind and right. But if we’re not seeing that more representative distribution, then there is something wrong in the system that can potentially be addressed.

Constance Jones (38:31):

Right? Yep. That’s, that’s spot on.

Kelly Barner (38:33):

Hopefully you agree with me that in this conversation, constant excelled at something that I’ve noticed as a trend among people and organizations who are successful in the supplier diversity movement, she is able to effectively combine her passion for diversity and minority-owned businesses with a solid grasp of the associated economics. And you can explain both well enough to win over even the toughest skeptics. That’s my point of view. Anyway, thank you for listening to this audio episode of dial P for procurement, but don’t just listen, join the conversation and let me know what you think on this topic or others. I can take it. Let’s work together to figure out the solution until next time. This is Kelly Barner for dial P for procurement on supply chain. Now have a great rest of your day.

Intro/Outro (39:23):

Thank you for joining us for this episode of dial P for procurement and for being an active part of the supply chain. Now community, please check out all of our shows and events@supplychainnow.com. Make sure you follow dial P four procurement on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to catch all the latest programming details. We’ll see you soon for the next episode of dial P four procurement.