“I’m not just mixing up stuff in the lab, I’m doing things to give people hope and to encourage people and to have a great impact on the world. And so that’s what keeps me grounded.”

– Sherrika Sanders, PhD, Senior Technical Engineer for Manner Polymers

On Feb. 1, 2003, the space shuttle Columbia disintegrated as it returned to Earth, killing all seven astronauts on board. An investigation would later determine that a suitcase-sized piece of foam had dislodged during the initial launch and caused damage to the protective panels covering the shuttle’s left wing. When it came time for reentry, the six-to-ten-inch-diameter hole created by the foam allowed hot gases to enter the wing, ultimately leading to the destruction of the shuttle and tragic loss of life.

In the aftermath of the accident, Lockheed Martin was tasked with gathering as much debris as possible to better understand the cause and hopefully prevent it from ever happening again. At the time, Sherrika Sanders, PhD, was working for Sandia National Laboratories, a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin. She was tasked with developing chemical coatings that would be applied to NASA’s space shuttles to prevent them from catching on fire as they reentered the earth’s atmosphere, a responsibility she took to heart.

In this episode, Sherrika tells Supply Chain Now Co-hosts Greg White and Scott Luton about her journey as an engineer and her philosophy on leadership:

· Why leadership is a privilege and an opportunity to serve others, not a right or a pathway to greater individual gain

· The power of shared objectives; from the top level of an organization to the bottom, everyone has a critical role to play

· The myth that leadership gives you the ability to change things organizationally, when what it really does is force you to change yourself

Intro/Outro (00:00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain. Now,

Scott Luton (00:00:32):

Good afternoon, Scott Luton, Greg white with you here on supply chain. Now, Greg, welcome to today’s live stream. How are you doing? How about that countdown that is straight, uptown and no more nasty grams from Borat and Uzbekistan or whatever. So it wasn’t, wasn’t it the like the Azerbaijan soccer club or something like that, that claimed ownership of that. It was something like that. But now, uh, I guess Yani is, uh, sponsoring our countdown, uh, right. Or it and Yani the, uh, uh, that the landscape musician was that solemn music called? Sure. No. Okay. Um, music, I don’t know. Yeah. Uh, yeah. It’s that soothing landscape stuff that sometimes you hear in your dentist’s office, maybe. Oh yeah. Hey, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll look into that, but regardless folks, we’ve got a big show here today. We are so excited about our guest. Um, and first off before we kind of foreshadow that, uh, it’s important to note Greg, that we come, uh, we live stream every Monday and Thursday at 12 noon.

Scott Luton (00:01:40):

Eastern time Monday of course, is our supply chain buzz. We’re tackle the news and developments. Some of which you got to keep your finger on. The pulse of Thursdays is our Baskin Robin Robbins vibe, right? 31 flavors. And then some little bit of variety for everybody. Do you remember Baskin Robbins, Greg? Yeah. Aren’t they still around or? I’m not sure, but I think they’re owned by Dunkin donuts. The same company that owns Dunkin donuts. It seems like not far from our house is a Baskin Robbins, Dunkin donuts combo. I think you’re right. And 31 flavors Brestlers had 33 flavors and Oh, they had the one up. It was, it was the ice cream Wars, kind of like the Cola Wars in the eighties. We were at war in the eighties. Now we’ve got the chicken sandwich Wars, um, whatever, whatever works, I guess for folks. But we spend a lot of times a kid in basket Robbins and, and the pink dipper back up where we grew up. But, uh, and by the way, thank you Mr. Benjamin gold clang soundscapes. They are called.

Scott Luton (00:02:45):

So we’ll say, well, I’m not a huge, I’m not a huge follower of Yani would probably heresy well let’s so let’s do this. We’ve got an outstanding guest today. We’ve got Dr. Shear Cassandra who was recently named one of the top 50 influencers in the world in the advanced manufacturing supply chain and logistics space. And that’s just one of her many, uh, many cool things about her journey and all the big impact she’s made. So, and she’s a repeat guest. We’d loved having her own, uh, about 500 episodes ago. So it’s been too long, so, wow. Yeah. Can you believe that

Greg White (00:03:23):

It was before my time even, and that’s

Scott Luton (00:03:27):

Did anything happen pre Greg white? I wait. Y’all y’all are in for a treat with our guests today, so we’re going to get to a sheriff in just a second, but before we do Greg, we’ve got to do some work, right? Yep. So let’s, uh, want to share a couple of program notes as always, if you enjoyed today’s live stream, be sure to check us out wherever you get your podcasts from, uh, at supply chain. Now on our main channel, we dropped today was a replay of Monday’s manufacturing, Monday version of the supply chain buzz. And we had Billy Taylor join us. Billy was formerly a director of manufacturing and the chief diversity and inclusion officer with the Goodyear company. And Billy brought it on Monday. Didn’t he? Greg

Greg White (00:04:10):

Manufacturing week, I guess. And yes. Yeah. Um, I’m not sure how many t-shirts different types of t-shirts we’re having printed, but I mean, he really does make it so consumable doesn’t he absolutely an expert walks in. He can clearly walk into these facilities and almost analyze the problems by walking in the door. So an incredible skill, but also I love the way he just makes it so simple for those of us, not in the know

Scott Luton (00:04:36):

Stories and humor and all the knowledge. So you’ll check out that replay wherever you get your podcasts from a Tuesday earlier this week, we published stop talking act buildings, sustainable logistics initiatives. Tell us about this cool conversation here, Greg. Okay.

Greg White (00:04:51):

You’re stalling along the sustainability Viking from Norway. And if you, he, he doesn’t look like that picture right now. He has been growing his beard during COVID. So he looks like he ought to be on an episode of, of Vikings. So check him out by the way, because it’s also on YouTube, but, uh, DB Schenker, the company that he works for has an incredible, uh, sustainability initiative in Norway and Norway in and of itself has an incredible sustainability initiatives, not just regulations by the government. Then they do have some of those, but also just the people are so incredibly aware of sustainability. And as Peter says, in this episode, they live off the land. It’s an oil producing country. It is an agriculture country. Um, so they, and it’s a very, there’s a very relatively small area of the country where you can grow anything because the country goes inside the Arctic circle.

Greg White (00:05:50):

Wow. So, um, it’s a beautiful place. It’s one of my favorite countries offload contains my favorite restaurant in the world. And I am not telling anyone who it is, what it is, because I want it for myself selfish, but do listen to Peter because he gives you tips on how to ignite your own sustainability ignition initiative in your company, or to accelerate if you’ve already got an initiative and get things going because they have got it going. Right. Um, electric pedal pedal driven electric carts, bikes, uh, for last mile delivery in Oslow. So, so things like that are what they’re up to.

Scott Luton (00:06:29):

So check it out. Tequila, sunrise with a T E C H as in Greg’s name. Go ahead and wink. Go ahead. See what we did there. So finally, uh, we got to two more quick notes. Hey, check out this week in business history, Kelly Barner stepped in, did a masterful job. Do y’all remember Metallica ticket on Napster? I forgotten about this way back in the early internet days, Conda. Um, so check it out all in less than 20 minutes, she, she dives into some things that you’ve probably other things you’ve probably forgotten about. So check that out this week in business history, wherever you get your podcasts from. And finally, Kevin L. Jackson is leading this webinar on April 27th, uh, setting the standard for supply chain security, especially from an ICT standpoint, uh, information communications, technology, new acronym, new to me, uh, and he’s doing it in conjunction with a couple of companies, including the telecommunications industry association, which is really the voice of that industry. So check that out April 27th, you can learn more. I think we’ve got link in the show notes and you can, uh, learn more@supplychainnow.com. Okay. So Greg, let’s say a couple of quick hellos of people, so we can start bring in our wonderful guests here today. Uh, we got Dave and with us good morning to you, Dave and hope I was alive. Peter of course is with us. Mervin Marie is with us. Hey Marie. Great to see you here today. Tell us where you’re, you’re tuned in from the Rainmaker

Greg White (00:08:03):

Brain Rainmaker. I like it.

Scott Luton (00:08:07):

Uh, but that perhaps I forgot your name wrong. I apologize, please correct me, but tell us where you’re tuned in from via LinkedIn. Uh, [inaudible] uh, is also tuned in via LinkedIn. Great to have you tell us where you’re from. Uh, Robert is with this. Uh, let’s see, here is a coy Greg hockey, hockey, hockey.

Greg White (00:08:29):

I don’t know. It’s been a long time,

Scott Luton (00:08:32):

So, well welcome. Hi. Hi is easy even mom. Maybe can’t mess it up, but Hey, tell us, make sure we get your name right. And tell us where you’re from. Great to have you here.

Greg White (00:08:43):

That’s Vietnam. I’m certain.

Scott Luton (00:08:45):

Yes. Rachel is with us, uh, from the Gulf coast. I bet the beautiful Gulf coast

Greg White (00:08:50):

Coaster. Yes.

Scott Luton (00:08:52):

Abhishek is back. I think he was with us, uh, earlier this week and last week from Chennai right tonight. Thank you. Uh, Tom Raftery, man. Tom, you’ve been on fire with the podcast here lately. I loved it. I enjoyed tuning in, uh, the stream, uh, talking cars last week. So hello from Seville Spain, right?

Greg White (00:09:11):

Yes. Correct. Simon Lou

Scott Luton (00:09:15):

After, after six months he says my open work banner is gone. Right?

Greg White (00:09:19):

Yeah. Tell us about it. Let’s know where you land.

Scott Luton (00:09:21):

Yeah. Tell us what’s going on. Uh, and finally LA lays with us from Sudan. I think she joined us a week or so ago and, and really dropped. I think she was with us when Sandra McQuillan was with us and she was sharing some, uh, local supply chain, uh, uh, uh, news. So great to have you back, uh, via LinkedIn. There are Facebook there. Okay. So with no further ado, Greg, are you ready? I am.

Greg White (00:09:46):

I’m ready. I mean, I’m telling some writing.

Scott Luton (00:09:50):

Wow. This was like Christmas. Not in to plate up too much. Uh Sherrick. As she’s in the green room, I’ve told you your ears will be burning as we talk about you. This is, this is really, it’s always neat to have repeat guests on. Um, but if you remember our episode, which was number one 17, when Sherik Cassandra’s PhD first joined us and we got so much feedback about it, about her, that we rereleased it as a classic play during the holidays. And then that our team’s like, Hey, we got to have her back and let’s do let’s, let’s have her on a live stream so we can, you know, she can interact with, with our community and everyone in cheap seats. So we’re doing just that. So Greg, I’m gonna, uh, I’m gonna not, I’m gonna do as much justice as I can intro her in 30 seconds here. So our guest today earned her PhD in inorganic chemistry. Uh, I could barely say that much less navigate through that degree program, right?

Greg White (00:10:44):

Yeah. So we’ve established that she’s smarter than we are.

Scott Luton (00:10:48):

Oh, undoubtedly. She then spent time leadership roles at the Dow chemical company authentics and now, uh, Manor polymers. She’s been named one of the 20 most influential women in manufacturing. And then more recently named one of the top 50 influencers in the world. Again, advanced manufacturing, supply chain and logistics. She’s got a ton of stories and perspective. Please join me in welcoming. Sherrick a Sanders PhD. Sherrick uh, good afternoon. How are you doing?

Greg White (00:11:18):

Hey everyone. How’s it going?

Scott Luton (00:11:20):

Great. Fantastic. Fantastic. We’re we’re we were a minute late getting you on

Greg White (00:11:26):

Pretty good intro though. Sherita, was it worth waiting for I’m intimidated. So that’s the key to it.

Scott Luton (00:11:39):

We, uh, is such, it’s a nice to have you back and, and, and have the opportunity not just to check in with you and kind of, uh, rekindle ourselves with your journey and your stories and your point of view, but then share that live with, with all of the folks that are, um, that are part of the journey with us here today. So share a com for the handful of folks that may have not been able to catch that early episode. I know you do plenty of keynotes in, in other plenty of the shows, but let us get to know you a little bit better here. So first off, tell us where you grew up.

Sherrika Sanders (00:12:10):

I am a Southern girl. I was born and raised in Shreveport, Louisiana and [inaudible] and then went to college in new Orleans. That’s right. The university of new Orleans university of Louisiana.

Scott Luton (00:12:34):

That’s right. And the mascot, remind me the gold rush. Yes. And it’s taken me right back to two years ago. Uh, the gold rush. So, um, y’all were talking pre-show y’all were talking food and of course here in the South, we certainly love our food. Folks love food everywhere. But growing up in Shreveport, I’ll put you on the spot. What’s one dish or restaurant. Um, that was just a big part of your early childhood journey.

Sherrika Sanders (00:13:03):

So there was a restaurant, um, when I was growing up, it was a seafood restaurant and it was called a framing in Harris. It was, uh, a staple in our home and they had the best stuffed shrimp and fried shrimp and just shrimp anyway, you know, and then it was sold and it became Pete Harris. Um, so it stay within that family. So it was Freeman in Harrison, Pete Harris. And so now, um, that one was sold to, but they still make the food, um, um, at a different restaurant and they have like this, um, their own signature, Torres, tar sauce that is to die for. And so if you go to Shreveport, it’s a restaurant on Mach house and you have to go there and, and get there there,

Scott Luton (00:14:02):

Well, let’s make a reservation and go this weekend, Greg, you guys sold. Um, so next time we drive to Austin. Scott will.

Sherrika Sanders (00:14:11):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:14:12):

Yeah. So Rachel says her husband has a repeated PhD in inorganic chemistry. It’s a hard journey. So congrats Sherrick I don’t even know, you know, uh, I want, I’ll be careful about, uh, I don’t want to illustrate my really poor inlet when it comes to chemistry. I’m not sure what integrated chemistry how’s that.

Sherrika Sanders (00:14:35):

So, um, so, so listen, Rachel, I mean, it, it definitely was a hard journey. I was just talking to somebody about this just yesterday and that getting the PhD. Um, I would do it all over again, but I’m glad that I don’t have to. It’s one of those things that, you know, is rewarding, but at the same time, it’s like, Oh my God, is this journey ever gonna end? Am I ever going to see any benefit from this? And then as soon as it happens, you, you see it. And it’s like, Oh, thank God.

Greg White (00:15:06):

Well, so that’s a perfect segue and I’m glad Greg, I’m glad you just came out and asked let’s. So when you look back at early childhood or your educational journey, you know, what’s a big Eureka moment, uh, that you, that you still reflect on these days.

Sherrika Sanders (00:15:21):

A Eureka moment is when I actually decided that I even wanted to major in chemistry. And it’s, it’s a cool story. So, um, the summer before my junior year in high school, my parents were like, okay, you gotta get a job, you gotta do something. Um, and a friend of mine told me about a summer program at Wiley college in Marshall, Texas. And when we get there, um, I said, okay, well, you know, I guess I gotta go, cause I’m gonna have to do something for the summer. And, um, they gave us three options. They said, you can either do physics for the summer. You can do biology for the summer, or you can do chemistry for the summer. And we had already taken a tour of the campus. I saw the big rats in the biology lab. So that was a note immediately, nobody, this thing kind of boring at the time to me.

Sherrika Sanders (00:16:12):

So I chose chemistry by default, um, and decided to do chemistry for the summer. Um, and we got met lab. They introduced us to the periodic table and it was just like, Whoa, the world just opened up to me and I’m saying it, okay. So I can mix these two compounds or these two elements together and make my own, make something new. Every I can tell where everything comes from just with his periodic table. And it was just a, like you said, Eureka moment for me. I was like, this is what I want to do. The rest of my life. It’s so much fun. Let’s do this. I got back to school and junior year was actually the year that I took chemistry, I may enjoyed it. It was a blast and just stuck with it and majored in chemistry, um, Xavier and went on to get my PhD.

Greg White (00:17:04):

That is amazing because I never had that fee. I mean, it, it, you know, what that really points out share, cause just how different people’s kind of psyche or, um, internal workings are because I never had that experience with the periodic table. I looked at it like, what evil language is this? Right. What are they trying to do?

Sherrika Sanders (00:17:26):

Yeah, yeah. It’s the best. I mean, I still look at it now and think, Hmm, what can I make that stuff?

Greg White (00:17:32):

Interesting. That’s very cool. Well, so you obviously not just school, but in your career, you’ve had some, um, notable, let’s say to say the least some notable accomplishments and experiences. Um, I think it’s really interesting. You hear about somebody’s Eureka moment like that, isn’t it sort of kismet the way that you kind of backed into something that you were clearly a natural to think about how you were not, not getting into chemistry. Right. It’s fun. It’s interesting how that works. Um, but I mean, you’ve had so many notable moments, um, some more uplifting than others, but you were involved with Columbia when that shuttle, uh, went down. Correct. Tell us a little bit about that.

Sherrika Sanders (00:18:27):

Um, so let me just start, start that story off by saying, you know, I don’t know where everyone sits spiritually, but, um, as I look back over my, my journey in my career, I can definitely see the hand of God just guiding me and protecting me throughout, throughout the whole process. And you know, it not being me, not by my own accomplishments or my own, um, knowledge or anything like that. It’s just been how God has, has positioned me to be where I need to be and to accomplish what I need to accomplish. Um, for certain times in our history. And I can look back from when I went to Xavier and you know, how I was a part of, um, my minority access to research careers. And I presented some papers at the American chemical society meeting and landed at university of Houston for graduate school.

Sherrika Sanders (00:19:19):

And while I was at university of Houston for graduate school, I presented another paper. Um, it at American chemical society meeting, and it just so happened. The poster was on the wall in the hallway when we had a presenter come in. And when he came in, he said, Hey, who did this work? And my advisor said, you’re in luck. She’s, she’s around. I’ll let you meet her. It’s just so happened to be a professor. Um, our principal investigator from, um, Sandia national labs. And so he found me in the lab and he said, Hey, I’m really interested in this work you’re doing when you graduate, I have a job for you. Wow. It was a slate for graduation for another a year and a half or two, um, from the moment that he came. Um, and so when it was time for me to graduate, I called him thinking this guy’s not going to remember, but I called him. And he was like, yep, I’m sending you a plane ticket for you to come up, check out the place, see if you like it. Um, and that’s how I got the post-doc at Sandia national laboratories from Sandia national laboratories. The work that I did there, uh, presented a paper, ran into a recruiter from the Dow chemical company. And he hired me right on the spot. And so it was just

Greg White (00:20:37):

What you’re saying is you make a big first impression and if she works, don’t let her out of your sight. Somebody is going to,

Sherrika Sanders (00:20:48):

You know, and so it’s just been okay, everything has been guided. Um, and so to answer your original question during the time that I was working at Sandia national labs, um, it was just after the Columbia special accident. And I was a new scientist on the block and I was given that project, um, um, at the time Sandia national labs was owned by Lockheed Martin and Lockheed Martin was charged with collecting the pieces of the space shuttle that it could find. Um, but also they wanted to know upon re-entry into the arts atmosphere. How can we keep this shuttle from catching on fire again? How can we prevent this from happening again? And that was my project. And so I developed coatings, um, that went onto the NASA space shuttles to prevent them from catching on fire, um, as they, we entered the earth atmosphere and it was very rewarding.

Sherrika Sanders (00:21:47):

And then, you know, again, I can use that periodic table and I can just kind of search through and see which of these, um, carbon, carbon composites are better than the current Silicon carbide coatings that they were currently using and what could withstand a lot of heat. And it was a great team to work with, um, to actually get it implemented because it’s one thing to come up with something in a lab or to implement it as a different thing. And I’ll tell you just mixing up a bunch of stuff, I’ll just call it that in the, in the lab was able to come up with something that actually worked. And that particular project, um, was probably the most meaningful for me because I could actually see the impact that I was having on the world, um, and in what I was doing. And it just has turned out to be the gift that keeps on giving, because I mean that one project has landed me so many different, um, opportunities, um, that I couldn’t have, you know, dreamed of

Scott Luton (00:22:45):

If I can interject for a second. And just to level set for folks that may be, um, young for that, that, uh, disaster February 1st, 2003, as a Colombia, uh, spacial was reentering earth orbit. It, it, uh, unfortunately, and tragically broke apart killing all seven astronauts aboard and, and it grounded the space shuttle fleet for 29 months, I believe. And, uh, so one other, so, uh, offload background there, but also share a cup you described on your interview with us as you presented that project to kind of the NASA family. Would you talk about that a bit?

Sherrika Sanders (00:23:20):

Oh yeah. Um, so after, um, Sandy, uh, um, did all the testing and we implemented, we were invited to Hawaii to the PAC rim conference and at the PAC Ram conference, um, I was one of the keynote speakers to present my work on, um, how I, how I developed the coatings and all of the tests results and all of those things. Well, you know, I have presented papers before, but this was sort of different, you know, um, normally I’m in a room that held maybe 20, 30 people, but for this particular, um, presentation I walk in and I’m almost wowed because it’s this huge conference room and it’s hundreds of people in there and they were mainly folks from NASA because they wanted to see, okay, what, what is this that, you know, we’ve come up with? And so, um, the other weird thing about is that, uh, my boss was actually supposed to present at that conference, but he had another thing going on.

Sherrika Sanders (00:24:24):

And so he said, you know, share the work w let her present it. I think she’ll do fine. Um, and so I get there, I present the work just as I normally do a highly technical talk, but then I noticed, um, a few people in the audience and I see a tear drop and I’m thinking, okay, nobody’s ever been this emotional about, you know, my work, but then afterwards, I mean, there was this thunderous applause. People were standing up and they were clapping. And, um, a coworker walked up to me afterwards and he says, Sherry, you gotta realize people lost friends. They lost, um, people who they considered as family in the Columbia special accident. So for you to get up there and present something gives us hope that we can actually accomplish as a United States of America. What we set out to do initially in the beginning.

Sherrika Sanders (00:25:17):

And that’s when it hit me. You know, I’m not just mixing up stuff in the lab, I’m doing things to give people hope and to encourage people and to having a great impact on the world. And so that’s what keeps me grounded. That’s what keeps me with high character because you can’t do this kind of job and not have character and integrity because there are scientists out there who present false data all the time, and it comes back to bite us. And so character integrity are, are a major component of what I do and what I seek out in other people when I hire them

Greg White (00:25:57):

For sharing that. So, yeah. So Greg, uh, what’s some of your takeaway there, I mean, th th you know, I think about not just chemistry, but people having that kind of impact on people, I mean, that had to be an awakening even for you and, and moving. I’m sure it’s certainly moving now. Um, but to realize that your hat, that chemistry can have that effect on people’s lives. I mean, think about how many times a kid in high school has said, when am I ever going to use this again? Right. And that is a great example of when you’re ever going to use it could be something, it could be anything, it could be algebra or trigonometry or what, or, or whatever, but it’s worth learning.

Sherrika Sanders (00:26:46):

Yes, you could change or save someone’s life with it.

Greg White (00:26:52):

I think that’s what, that’s the really impactful part

Sherrika Sanders (00:26:55):

Of that

Scott Luton (00:26:57):

Thing that really resonates with me, Greg and very well said, both of y’all, um, is, you know, that sense of a greater purpose, a sense of a greater mission. And that was like, almost like our Eureka moment for you, that, that, you know, folks, families, and colleagues, and they’re depending on you to protect not only the mission, but, but the lives of those involved. And that is, you know, that’s, um, hopefully everyone listening to this will have that Eureka moment where there, they see how they fit in to the greater good and the greater, greater purpose. It really, it, it changes, it changes the lab. So thank you so much for sharing. So, Greg, uh, from that, I, I don’t know that that’s one of my favorite things. My last interview.

Greg White (00:27:37):

Yeah. So I’m curious, I mean, obviously, um, obviously you do hire people and you do observe your colleagues and you do obviously lead with your knowledge and your expertise and your research and your deliverables. But I’m curious either from your perspective or your perspective of somebody else, what is a kind of a key leadership moment, a key leadership lesson that you’ve learned that you would share with the community here?

Sherrika Sanders (00:28:07):

Um, so here recently, I would say the key thing is, especially with everything that’s going on in the world, um, is for leaders to realize that leadership is a service in a privilege. It’s not an opportunity for you to beat up on people with your, um, role or your power. Um, and, and, and so one of the key things, um, here recently that I’ve been able to add to my toolkit is, um, I don’t know if you guys have heard of courageous conversations. Um, and it is basically a complice. That’s used to have conversations about race, but I use them, I use that compass to have conversations about anything, especially, um, in my leadership role. And just to give, um, some background on what this is, is you can imagine since just accomplished with a North South East West axis, um, and in your North East axis is going to be, um, different attributes that people possess, like, um, their morals and their beliefs and things like that.

Sherrika Sanders (00:29:21):

And if you go around clockwise on the compass, you’ll see intellectual limb thinking, um, on your Northwest access. And then on your Southwest access is going to be social people who act socially, the people who do things and who, um, are like your protestors, the people who are eager to get out there and protest, and then on your Southeast axis is going to be your emotional people. People who feel things in terms of leadership and knowing how to converse with people and use that compass has been eye opening for me. And if people could, could, could get this and you don’t learn how to use this compass. So basically what you do is you’re tapping into where a person is coming from in the axis. You join them there and bring them to where you need them to go. So, for example, if I have a employee and I mean, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, and let’s say they lost a parent as a leader, I need to get into that emotional box with them before I start talking to them about their performance or their deliverables.

Sherrika Sanders (00:30:34):

Um, and I think a lot of leaders miss that they miss that whole, um, connecting with a person before you’re at, before you ask them to do something or to deliver anything for you. And I think you’ve probably heard this saying a million times over that people leave leaders. They don’t leave companies, they leave leaders. Um, and so if, if leaders could get that, think about the deliverables and the performance and the different things that you can get out of a person, once you connect with them with wherever they may be, if they’re the processor, connect with them there, if they’re, um, big on morals and beliefs connect with them there. So that means you have to do the work as a leader, too, right? You have to know yourself well enough. Um, and the things that you need to work on and your unconscious biases, um, to be able to deliver in this fashion and to influence. So you want to lead by influence and not by fear.

Greg White (00:31:32):

So, Greg, I know we’re talking your language. I know we all love talking leadership in practical, real leadership action focused, you know, that servant leadership, you’re always looking to improve how you, how you go about it. Greg was some thoughts that I think that, well, I think that I have to say this, it exposes the kind of leaders that you’ve been exposed to. And I’m sorry for that, because you’ve clearly had that experience of those kinds of leaders. There are those kind of leaders that you are, and that you talk about out there. And, um, you know, and I’m, uh, I, so I think we have to acknowledge that there are both that exists. Um, and, and I think the compass precept I’ve heard of the book. I have, we talked about that on a, I think we talked about that Scott on a logistics with purpose episode, but I haven’t, haven’t read it, but it sounds incredibly valuable.

Greg White (00:32:27):

And I already get it. I mean, I get the meeting people where they are great leaders. Um, they’re not leaders because, because they have a title, as you said, they’re leaders because people follow them and people follow them because they feel comfortable and cared for and, and inspired by these people. And, you know, I think it was somebody here in the comments when we were having a discussion about leadership a week or so ago, that said, you know, there’s a difference between a boss and a leader. There’s a difference between a manager and a leader. And the truth is you can lead from this is, this is something I encourage people about all the time. You can lead from wherever you are, right. You’re talking about program. And when the president went into a hangar in, I don’t, I don’t, I think it was Houston went into a hanger and talk to the janitor there who was sweeping the floor. And he said, what is your job? And he said, my job is to put a man on the moon. You know, you can lead from wherever you are. Are, there are people who are changed by their environment. And there are people who change their environment. Clearly you’re the ladder that is right. Ladder. Um, you change your environment,

Scott Luton (00:33:43):

Terrible

Greg White (00:33:43):

If that former and latter thing. Um, but uh, clearly you do that. And I think that’s commendable. I really think there’s a fantastic recommendation. Right, right. Just conversations. Correct.

Scott Luton (00:33:57):

Yeah. So I want to share a couple of comments and a question before Greg continues. Cause we’re going to ask about some of the recognition share you had received, but let me share a couple of these companies’ comments here. So first off, I mean, it says that she was fortunate. She did not blow up her house with a chemistry set. Her and her dad played around in the basement, a scientist.

Greg White (00:34:21):

There’s not enough, uh, volume to make a compound that could actually blow up the house, but it could smoke the ceiling in your bedroom.

Scott Luton (00:34:28):

I can confirm. So Jenny is with Jenny from great to have you, uh, via Johannesburg, South Africa. Great to see here, look forward to our, uh, upcoming live stream. Uh, so back to Rachel, you know, talking about a noble mission. So her husband worked on flame resistant paint coatings to, with her, with the PhD in inorganic chemistry, worked on paint for homes. It could be exposed to wildfires. Very cool. Also flame resistant face paint, probably I guess, for firefighters and others. What a man that is remarkable, uh, connect with her husband. Yes, you do. No doubt.

Scott Luton (00:35:10):

Uh, plastics really. We can talk connected on a show. That’s, uh, I don’t know about 17 pay grades above mine and I’ll freak myself, Greg. Um, lots of comments from folks that really love what you shared there, both in the previous story and, um, about talking leadership. And finally, I want to share a couple of things here. So Peter watch the shuttle tragedies live on TV at the time once leaving Walt Disney world with the kids on a trip with dreams, flight national that they watched, heard and felt shuttle, takeoff, quite the experience. He also saw it in that iconic when the sheller used to be on the back of the, the a seven 47, uh, such an iconic thing. I never saw that in person flying overhead or anything, but, um, had some models, such a really cool part of that shuttle program. Um, Simon calls it, humanistic leadership.

Scott Luton (00:36:01):

I love that. Yeah, that’s good. Peter says it was a mic drop moment, leaving leaders, not companies love that. I agree with you. Uh, he goes, says a boss says me and a leader says us, our team. And then finally, we get to a question before we get back to the interview here. And a question comes from LA. Her comment first is in my country everywhere. There are teams with very minimal abilities and qualifications may be corruption in lots of government, governmental entities. She’s proud to be one of the protestors against al-Bashir regime. So now we need leaders with special capabilities to lead the old teams and replacements. And then to her question and share could love to get your take. And Greg welcome yours to what if the team is old-fashioned and requires lots of motivation. What would your advice be there, sheriff?

Sherrika Sanders (00:36:51):

So, um, it ha I will recommend, okay, this book is called, get your shift in order that I was given. And that’s what I have to say. It’s slow, but I was given this, um, welcomed by a mentor when I worked for the Dow chemical company. And it was because I was getting ready to start some Lita groups that had baby boomers, gen X, gen Z, millennials. I mean, it was just full of a bunch of different people from a bunch of different areas. Um, so it was, uh, it was a global group as well. And so what it does is it kind of brings different perspectives from, as you would call it a LA old fashioned, um, into your realm of eyesight. So it’ll help you to understand, you know, where they’re coming from and why they feel the way they feel and why it may seem old fashioned, but a lot of times old fashioned things incorporate it with the new, um, things that you could bring to the table are innovative. And so I was saying, don’t look to totally discard the OPEC old fashioned point of view, but figure out how you can incorporate it into your new point of view and make something new.

Scott Luton (00:38:12):

I like that. Um, it makes me think of a comic book movie. My son loves com all the Marvel comic loop movies, and there was a superhero that was getting beaten up and he, and, and whatever, laser Ray, whatever it was, he turned it around to make it a weapon. You’re right. It’s kind of what you’re talking about. Take, take the nature of the situation and take the, all the negatives and turn on its head and that

Greg White (00:38:36):

In efforts to make, make it a better placement, better organization, more effort, or more progress. Rather, Greg, as I turn the Baton back to you, and before you move on to the next one, what will be your take on making hay out of old fashioned cultures or teams? Well done, done at a ton in my career. I was, I started at a very young age. In fact, I annoyed the hell out of one of my uncles when they were thinking about having children. I was the oldest grandchild. So they took me to the zoo and he said, no matter what I said, your question was why, and I’ve been that way ever since. So the that’s the way we’ve always done. It has never played well with me. And, um, I have been disruptive in service to a company and I have been disruptive in disservice to myself at a company, um, by, by questioning these old fashioned standards.

Greg White (00:39:25):

And, um, honestly, I mean, I have, I I’d have to say that my advice would be either decide to fight or decide to leave. It’s as simple as that, now how you do it, you can do it very diplomatically, right? Of course. And you should, because you always have to keep the goal in mind. You’re not trying to pound somebody into submission either, even if they are you, you’re trying to help them see the light to awaken to a new way of doing things. And, and if, if you want people to change from their old fashioned ways to new ways, you can’t just say, this is the new way you have to, you have to appeal to their self-interest. Why is it in the self-interest of your great uncle to buy a new tractor rather than continue to use the old 55, 20 narrow two wheel tractor that keep why?

Greg White (00:40:17):

Because if you turn that tractor too sharp, it rolls over and it could hurt somebody or worse. So, sorry, that was a very personal story. Um, I mean, it is those kinds of things, right? It is you, you have to appeal to people’s self-interests and you have to, as, as Sherita was just saying, you have to meet them where they are, and you have to acknowledge what their self-interest is, whether it’s, whether it’s altruistic or not, you have to recognize somebody’s self interest interest. And if you want to make progress, you have to appeal to that. And you have to appease that to some extent to get to where.

Sherrika Sanders (00:40:53):

Yeah. So it’s a little bit at the influence of where you’re trying to go, right? So if you, you have a specific goal in mind, um, and that person made are they data-driven, um, if they’re data-driven, then you present the data as to why you want to move to a certain area. Um, that’s away from where they currently are. Um, and that a lot of times like myself, I’m analytical and data driven. It’s if somebody puts it in front of me, black and white with the data, then Hey, I’m more apt to move to their side of the river then than where I’m standing. Just like you said, their self-interest, what is it? And appeal to it and influence that way, all love

Greg White (00:41:34):

That. I think we could have a 12 hour leadership discussion with you share, but, but, uh, for the sake of time, cause I want to get, I want to get some kind of second half here. So Greg, where are we going next? Well, I mean, okay, so we’ve established that you had some really impactful projects and jobs we’ve established, you know, a lot and obviously share a lot and can give a lot in, in terms of leadership. I’m curious because, um, Scott only touched on a very small portion of your, of your accolades. I’m curious of all of the accolades and awards that, that you’ve received. What one, what one do you think that you see as the most meaningful?

Sherrika Sanders (00:42:19):

Oh yeah. Um, uh, it would be, uh, so I mentioned the work at Sandia is to give that keeps on giving. So that was, uh, their work was, uh, implemented in 2006. Here we are, um, 2017 and I get a call that I am being considered as a hidden figure of Dallas for my contributions to science and technology. And I’m thinking what size it takes, what contribution in they bring up the spatial, um, work. And they said that our Congresswoman, um, uh, will be involved and I had to submit a packet and they came back, you know, a couple of months later and said, yeah, you’re, you’re the one for us. Um, we’re gonna, uh, name you as a 2017, um, hidden figure of Dallas. And it was great because it was at the same time that the movie was released, um, with, uh, what it meant and what my contributions might’ve been and all of this stuff.

Sherrika Sanders (00:43:30):

And, you know, I got to kinda hang out with our Congresswoman Eddie, Bernice Johnson, um, and that, um, at the time some certificates and plaques from the white house. Um, and, and to me it was the most meaningful because it was a kind of a, not that, Hey, uh, what you’ve contributed mix means something to me, you know, means something to the world and it was extremely impactful. Um, and so, you know, I got to share it with my family. Um, they were invited to the presentation of the award and it was just, it was great. So that, that one hit over heels. It’s probably been the most meaningful.

Greg White (00:44:14):

I got to tell you that, um, that it came out when you said hidden figures. It really, uh, really made me think of that. And when you mentioned the timing, I thought, how fortuitous is that at the same time? Um, how, how do they select you? I mean, how are you nominated and selected there? Did someone nominate you?

Sherrika Sanders (00:44:39):

Yes, it was actually a mentee of mine. Wow. Yeah. Who was currently the president of the national society for black engineers? Um, I was R and D director at the time for authentics authentics is a global company that, um, uh, marks makes chemical markers for, uh, oil and gas fuel around the country. And so I was the R and D director making markers at the time, and she actually worked in our engineering department. Um, and I kinda, as soon as she walked in the door, noticed her, took her on as a mentee. Didn’t know she was the president of the, uh, Nesby association, but she was, and a year later he or she is, she’s like, Oh, you’ve been great for me. Um, I’ve learned so much, I’m going to nominate you for this award that I heard that was coming up through my organization. And that’s how it happened.

Scott Luton (00:45:34):

Uh, I want to steal a page from, from Greg’s book a moment ago. He mentioned how his uncle took him to the zoo. And the only question they had repeatedly all day was why. So share ARCA. Why was that? Why is that? If all the, all the accolades accolades, when shared a few as we were introducing you and there’s plenty of others, why is that award?

Sherrika Sanders (00:45:54):

Well, it’s, it’s multifaceted. Um, one is important to me because, um, I’m very passionate about giving back to the community. And so, um, when my, the young lady walked through the door up to my company and I noticed her and I began to mentor her and pour back into her, um, it was sort of a thank you. Um, her nomination of me for the award was a thank you. And it was something to me to say, okay, you’re on the right track. You’re giving, you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing and what you’re called to do. Um, and then secondly, the other part of it was that once she nominated me and my packet was accepted by, um, our, the congressional fellows at the time and, and noticed it was, it was a not, um, at what I had contributed technically. And so if I ever wonder, am I doing something that’s impactful? Is my technical work doesn’t mean anything. It was a moment in time where I could say yes, it means something. So that’s why that one was the most important. I love it

Greg White (00:47:02):

Well, and more than technical work too. I mean, clearly it’s really, really rare. I’m not sure that everyone understands that, that someone who you have mentored nominates you for something, it’s usually someone who sees you do your work, not experiences, the power of your leadership, that, that nominates you for those kinds of accolades. So that’s really, really impressive. I get that facet of it completely. Right. And, and it does show

Scott Luton (00:47:30):

Something outside of your technical acumen, which is clearly right, your ability to leave the humanistic leadership. Let’s just say, chair, um, you know, you didn’t know who this person was. You didn’t know whether they were a nobody or a somebody or anybody, and you just saw something and, and guided them. And, you know, I think that speaks a lot to what you were talking about before character and principles. So, um, yeah, I get why that one is so meaningful to you, but it is a representation of who you are, not what you did. Right.

Sherrika Sanders (00:48:07):

Right. And it was possible something that my family could, could connect to because they’re not scientists. And they don’t always know. Okay. I just know she’s doing something in the lab, but this one, they can watch the movie. Um, because we hadn’t seen the movie, um, when they called me about the award, but we sit down and watch it together. Um, and they could connect and say, Oh, we get it now. You know? Cause when they’re on pins and needles, waiting on that shuttle to come back, you know, that was me when the next shuttle went up, I was on pins and needles, like, okay, okay. Let’s, you know, this has to work,

Scott Luton (00:48:41):

Right. Yeah. Right. So folks, if you have not, if you’re one of the three people that have not seen the movie, hidden figures, do yourself a big favor and make sure to set some time aside there, either read the book or watch the movie this weekend. One of the NASA engineers, uh, computers, as, as people were known back then, right. Folks at that crunch some numbers, Mary Jackson, uh, talk about an incredible journey. You know, when John Glenn, he didn’t, he didn’t trust some of what the, what the, uh, uh, machine computers were telling him. He wanted Mary Jackson to get these figures. Right. And Mary said it, he trusted it. And that’s just one of the many anecdotes, but what a powerful, uh, thank you for sharing that hidden figures experience with this, uh, sheriff. And now, uh, I wanna, I wanna transition a bit, so, um, because you were talking about mentees and mentorship, right.

Scott Luton (00:49:32):

And, um, I know from our previous conversation, just how important that is for you and, and how passionate you are about it. And yes, Jenny does, uh, see why the good ones, the good professional associations are important, the good ones out there. Great point. But you know, if you’re speaking to, you know, based on, you know, the leadership message you have today and the passion and your point of view that you have today, I want to post two questions to you. The first one is, if, if you’re in that big room, you’re, you’re painting a picture earlier, as you were sharing that really important pivotal project with NASA, and you were talking, you’re describing this huge, massive room of folks. Let’s, let’s mentally go into that room and, and this and this and this question, uh, folks sit in those seats or organization leaders across industry and across the globe. So what would you like to tell those people right now?

Sherrika Sanders (00:50:23):

Um, so, um, from my seat, I like to remind them that they hold the keys to employee decisions. So what I mean by that is they hold the cards. And when it comes to talent, acquisition to promotions, um, to building the pipeline of future employees, they hold all these cards. And so 50 to 70% of an employee’s experience comes from their interaction with their leader. That’s what the data says, 50 to 70%. So you as leaders in that Coliseum, if you know that 50 to 70% of that employee’s interaction, um, experience comes from their interaction with you, then what are you going to do with that employee? Once you have them in your company, think about that and do the work to engage and make that person feel like, um, they are delivering on something that has purpose. So a lot of times we write these job descriptions that are just, just that bullet points, but what people really want is they want to know that I am having an impact.

Sherrika Sanders (00:51:47):

And there is purpose behind the work that I’m doing. Just like you say, with the janitor, I’m putting a person on the moon, right? So imagine if that person was applying for the janitorial job and the job description said that as opposed to, I need you to sweep the floor and clean the sinks and those things. Instead, I need you to help me put a purse person on the moon. So it’s, we as organizational leaders, take a look at the big picture and not just see what we want a person to do from a task oriented perspective, but from a vision oriented perspective, um, we would have much better, much better employees that deliberate a lot more and they’d be happier.

Greg White (00:52:26):

Wow. All right. So I got to tell you, Greg, I’ve heard that anecdote and we’ve talked about the anecdote and, and, and we’ve created content around that anecdote for years. And that’s the first time I’ve heard it kind of in that context of putting that into the job description, the mission, the greater, that is what that’s worth, the price submission right there. Sherrick at Greg, your thoughts. Well, that’s absolute, it’s an absolute necessity these days, gen Z and gen, Y both absolutely demand it. They want to know what they’re working for. And the truth is the only difference is the demanding it, because if you look at some of the statistics, the sheriff sheriff has a referring to people. They want, they want to know that they are respected. They want recognition. They want relevance in their role. Right. And, and they want to have that higher purpose.

Greg White (00:53:15):

They, that relevance means, am I doing something meaningful? Am I meeting a higher purpose? Right. So if you just keep those three RS in mind, then you can do right by your people. And yes, of course, give them something to, to look toward because it’s a, it’s a tough environment. I can’t believe we’re saying that just a year later, right. After 22% or whatever, uh, unemployment. Right. So, um, but, but you know, you are competing for the best of the best. And if you want the best, you have to give them something to aim for a North star.

Sherrika Sanders (00:53:53):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, when you, when you talk to people now that leave jobs, what did they say? Oh, my mom died and they didn’t even care. Or, you know, something like that. Most of the time you get complaints. It’s about the lack of compassion from the leadership, the lack of, uh, engagement and connection. So that’s what we want to deal with.

Greg White (00:54:16):

I remember that, um, that those two strategies I said, right. Either fight or flee in that case, if they don’t care about your mother flee, go find a job somewhere else that there is something wrong with the culture of that country.

Scott Luton (00:54:31):

Right. Amen. Amen. All right. So folks, we may go over just a couple of minutes here, but I don’t want to share it because it’s such a great interview. If we’d have to go three hours and we’ll go three hours, you guys got me for the day. Awesome. Well, Aaron says, it’s amazing. Love what you shared. A lot of the comments along those lines. I agree with Aaron, Aaron hope this finds you well, Aaron SMI tech, Tom agrees with Greg, both of y’all jobs. These days have got to be purpose. It gotta be purpose-driven. So, um, all so share, come, both of y’all essentially we’re, we’re speaking kind of to, and, and certainly referencing, you know, the, the earlier generations, right. Folks that may be finishing up their degrees these days, or maybe they’re pre college, or maybe they’re they just broken industry. Maybe they’ve been in it for, you know, months, a couple months, or a couple of years. If you had those in that Coliseum, I’m gonna steal that term from you. Coliseum moment. If you had your captive attention for the next minute or two, what would you share with those folks?

Sherrika Sanders (00:55:31):

Um, I think I’ve said it a bunch of times before. Um, if not here, definitely in certain, um, other arenas, when I’m talking to new leaders or aspiring leaders, I can not stress in enough for them to do the work. Do you think you want to be a leader, but first recognize that leadership is not a power play. Uh, good leaders recognize leadership as a service and a privilege, not a right. And once you get that, and once you do the work, then come to the realization or figure out if you’re, you’re willing to show up and be a great leader. And what I mean by that is that willing to show up and be objective and willing to show up and have those courageous conversations and tough conversations, especially in the, the, the climate that we’re living in today, um, and willing to show up and serve.

Sherrika Sanders (00:56:26):

And once you come to that realization that, Hey, yeah, this is for me, and this is what I want to do. I want to help somebody else. I’m not seeking leadership, so somebody can help me. Then you might be ready to step out into the leadership role. Um, but not before, not before, then make sure you get everything you need to on the ground work. Because the last thing that I want to happen to anybody, especially an inspiring leader, is for them to get out on that platform and then be exposed for something that they never meant for the world to know.

Scott Luton (00:56:58):

All right. Uh, so the theme today, do the work share, how can I earn my PhD and obtain recognition leadership roles? Do the work. Hey, how can I advance in supply chain and get big salaries and do big things, do the work. Uh, it’s such a, um, a simple but powerful piece of advice, uh, to folks regardless where you are in your journey. So never mail it in, do the work. Um, all right. So before we make sure folks know how to connect with [inaudible], everyone’s going to be wanting it. They’re having already want to get a piece of your time, uh, sheriff, uh, it’s uh, you know, I felt enlightened and educated, energized after the last time I spent an hour with you, and I feel the same way, right. This moment,

Sherrika Sanders (00:57:47):

And I’m sure I’m not alone, Greg,

Scott Luton (00:57:49):

What’s your take on what she just shared or, or to do the work mantra?

Greg White (00:57:53):

Yeah, well, you know, there’s a couple aspects of it. John Locke said a political philosopher said, the more powerful you are, the less powerful, the less power you have because you, you become by default, this servant, this keeper, this protector of the masses over which you arguably rule, he was talking about political rulers at the time, right? You have to keep care of those people. And I think that servant leadership mantra is you have to acknowledge that you, you are as much, um, you are as much surf as you are leader, right? You are as much surf as you are, whatever they call those Nobles. Right? So, um, you have to, you have to recognize that. And I think, you know, the other thing is this sort of mythical concept that leadership instantly allows you to change everything. Mostly what it mostly, what it forces you to change is yourself. Peter principle in and of itself is you are, you are you’re re you’re. You rise to the level of your incompetence, right? You get to the next level, you have no idea what to do at the next level. And so you have to recognize that you do have to do the work because you’re the one who’s going to need the work first, when, when you are elevated to a new level of authority.

Sherrika Sanders (00:59:17):

Right? Right. And then the rewards, there are rewards in it. So I, you know, we don’t want to paint a picture that, Oh, you get to a leadership role and everything’s going to be humdrum. And, you know, there are rewards in it and find the, I find the reward in that employee that I managed 10 years ago, calling me and saying, Hey, you know, I pulled the presentation that you gave on leadership 10 years ago. And man, I, you know, hit it out of the park with the board, you know, or, you know, thank you for putting in the work for me to get that job. Now I got the job and I’m getting promoted. You know, something like that. That’s where the reward is. Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:59:55):

The work is the work. The reward is the people. Right. All right. So much goodness here. Uh, I’m going to share a couple of comments and then we’re going to make sure folks know how to connect with Sharka. Todd. The Rainmaker says a great one. One’s purpose is not driven by their job. If your job, as a tool for accomplishing your purpose, then all the better, excellent point there. Todd Enrique, host of logistics with purpose host of supply chain. Now in espaniol an nominee for best hair in supply chain, along with Greg white and many others, uh, easy leading, he is leading the few followers, convert the lone nut into a leader. So leadership is too glorified. If you believe in something, be brave to lead someone else. Excellent point Aaron says he’s only caught less five minutes inspired, ready to run through walls. I agree with you. And Peter was laughing at the Peter principle. Here’s a variety of Peter principles, but I guess every principle for him is the Peter principle. So, um, all right. So one, one last question. Uh, are you not to put you on the spot, but I’ve already gotten a couple of texts. Are you accepting new mentees?

Sherrika Sanders (01:01:12):

I am. I am. I actually, uh, converted over a crew of my mentees to mentors, um, which was very, it was a lot of fun. So, you know, I mentor a group of kids from high school to college and now they’re in medical school. So I just converted them over to mentors for some of my new kids that just came in through high school. So I have, um, open spots if that makes any sense, because they’re covering some of my other groups. So yes I am. And I can be found on LinkedIn if you want to connect there. Um, and we’ll, we’ll move forward from there. And I’ll just let everybody know. My style of mentorship is that you lead it pretty much. So you talk as much as you want to talk to me. Um, I, you have complete access to me, so it’s not that we have to schedule a meeting and talk plan a talk every month. It’s based on what you want and what your needs are.

Scott Luton (01:02:07):

I liked that and I believe her, correct? Yeah. I’m going to go sign up now. Well, uh, it’s been as advertised. Uh, [inaudible], you’re a blessing. I love how you, you know, kind of that practical, no nonsense type of interview and discussion. You’ve been there, done that. It’s not theoretical. It’s it’s, um, it’s real and it’s inspiring and uh, no wonder why everyone else and all the other organizations out there have been recognizing it. So, uh, you may need to build a new, uh, addition to your, um, trophy case. Yeah. Yes. He’s always on it. Oh, wonderful man. That’s good. Well, thanks so much for carving some time out and spending some more time with us here today. We’ve gotten a ton of comments as expected. I know you’re used to it, but, uh, Sherrick, uh, Sanders, P H D. Thanks so much for joining us and we’ll have to reconnect with you again real soon. Thank you so much. It’s been great hanging out with you guys. Yeah. Wow. That swoosh waits for no one Holy cow. Um, but that’s the type of, you know, if we’re not careful with the time, cause we want to respect your time for sure. You know, I’d love to just open up and have some Q and a for the next hour or two and, and just, you know, enjoy that company. And,

Greg White (01:03:37):

And I was going to get in line and also get a drink and just, let’s just start

Scott Luton (01:03:41):

Gavin. Yeah, let’s do it. Uh, let’s see, Simon says thank you. Great interview and insight, boom. With an exclamation Mark. How about that? Let’s see here. Mervin says, thanks for sharing your experiences. [inaudible] it looks like, uh, some folks were commenting as Aaliyah. That’s right. As the lead Davis, she got, uh, her degree in biology. Um, what was her degree in one of the very, uh, complicated degree programs, biomedical science, I think is what she got her undergrad in. And she’s looking to break in industry. We might have to have to get them connected.

Greg White (01:04:18):

I think that’s kind of the that’s the common thread is they were acknowledging the passion of as Leah and kind of common philosophies, right?

Scott Luton (01:04:28):

Yes. Right. Yes. Um, well, a lot of good stuff there. Wonderful, wonderful hour spent with sheriff. All right. So Greg, and of all the goodness that sheriff just dropped on us and all the wonderful folks and the comments to our team, the producers behind the scenes, if you had to pick one, what’s your, what was your favorite part of that conversation?

Greg White (01:04:51):

Simon says humanistic leadership. And I think whether that term has existed before or not, I think Sherrick has a fantastic, she’s a fantastic representation of that. Right? You can tell that it’s all about the people. It is all about the people. And, and, you know, I have to acknowledge that as a scientist, that probably has to be fairly difficult though. Clearly an exceptional scientist, obviously exceptionally personable, a lot of what she’s experienced. I think in terms of, um, in terms of leadership challenges or, you know, woes from less than, shall we say empathic leaders, it is largely because of the personality type of scientists or engineers and others frequently, right? I mean, it’s not always the case that those, those of us with an engineering mindset are that personable. So she is so aware and obviously so well read and continues to learn. So, you know, she is doing the work that she is doing, the work that she is encouraging people to do.

Scott Luton (01:06:03):

Amen. Hey, LA ha puts it great here. She says, if supply chain had more leaders like Shirka, the world will be a better place for everyone, I think is what she meant that fast, rapid, faster. Yeah. Better place faster. Sorry. Um, I agree wholeheartedly with you LA wholeheartedly. Um, Greg, you stole my to do the work. That was one of my favorite things. I’m sorry. Let me take that. So there’s things that you can just stick between your ears and remind yourself every time you have that moment, do the work, do the work you got to believe that work is going to pay off regardless of what that work means for you. Um, you know, just that, that, again, that NASA story is such a powerful testimony. That, that moment that hopefully we all have that what you do is number one, valuable, but number two plays a critical role in the greater good, you know, there there’s such a great, it’s a gratifying moment if you ever had that. And for it to be that impactful was certainly a big,

Greg White (01:07:02):

Strange she communicated when the next one took off, she took personal responsibility for back craft, keeping those people say, right. That’s, that’s huge. I mean, that’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s that kind of thing that makes, that really gives you the right to demand a higher purpose. You have to care that much. Right.

Scott Luton (01:07:27):

I love that. Uh, all right. So finally, Simon says he just made up humanistic leadership on the spot based on shirk, his leadership vision. Somebody else must’ve said it first, surely, surely someone else.

Greg White (01:07:41):

Yes, sir. Simon. And you know, what’s coming next.

Scott Luton (01:07:44):

Yes. Yes. Peter says the meaningful for me is important. Making it meaningful I’m with you. Okay. Well, we could all go on and go on for sure. We’ve got plenty of t-shirt isms, lots of notes, uh, this hour and some change was as impactful and enjoyable as we all knew it would be. So thanks for everybody for tuning in. Thanks for contributing. Yeah. You know, your take on what you were hearing and, and your, your, um, you know, gratitude for, for sheriff sharing a big thanks to share Cassandra’s PhD for, for joining us as busy as she is these days big, thanks to our team, uh, that made it, makes it happen behind the scenes, Amanda and clay, and Allie, I believe here today, Greg, a pleasure to do these conversations, likewise, to share these conversations with folks, wherever they are. And this is, this is part of our, why this is part of our work, and we’ve got to do it each and every day. So on that note, wherever you are, have a wonderful week, uh, I’ll tell you, uh, w I hope you have a wonderful weekend check out hidden figures that will make L pull everything together in a very beautiful movie or book, and, uh, you know, do good, give forward, be the change. Be just like Sherrick a Sanders PhD in the world would be a better place on that note. We’ll see you next time here at supply chain.

Intro/Outro (01:09:01):

Thanks. Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now, community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.