On this episode of Supply Chain Now broadcast live from the RLA Conference & Expo in Las Vegas, Scott and Greg interview Bruce Brown with Informission.

[00:00:05] It’s time for Supply Chain Now Radio Broadcasting live from the Supply chain capital of the country, Atlanta, Georgia. Supply Chain Now Radio spotlights the best in all things supply chain the people, the technology, the best practices and the critical issues of the day. And now here are your hosts.

[00:00:29] Good morning, Scott Luton. Back with you here on Supply chain. Now welcome back to the show. Today Show we’re not broadcasting life from Atlanta G-A. We’re here Las Vegas at the home of the reverse Logistics Association Conference Expo. It’s become the center of the universe. All things returns and reverse Logistics. And we’ve had an outstanding opportunity to sit down with thought leaders and supply chain leaders and technology leaders to help them make that space happen, which is incredibly and growing in its importance. And then supply chain day in and day out. So today’s episode, we are going to be continuing that trend and we’re excited about speaking with Bruce of information will introduce him just a second. But first, we’ve got to bring in my fearless co-host. Greg White Supply chain adj. serial supply chain, tech entrepreneur and trusted advisor. Greg, how you doing?

[00:01:19] I’m doing great. I’m glad to be at the center of the universe. And I’m also glad it’s in Las Vegas.

[00:01:25] Even if the weather’s been a bit I this odd is an understatement. Yes.

[00:01:30] But nevertheless, we’ve had some wonderful conversations. Look for you to have one here today. Quick programing note. You can find all of our podcasts where we get your podcast from, including Apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube. Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss a single thing. So, Greg, this morning we are bringing all Mr. Bruce Brown, CEO of information.

[00:01:52] We’re speaking in color. Yes, Gordon Brown.

[00:01:55] That’s right. I got to keep it light. Easy for me.

[00:02:02] Bruce, we’ve enjoyed talking with you and Ken, some other folks from your booth here at the conference. But first off, we’re talking about you. Right. Right. Meeting this week.

[00:02:12] Absolutely. A bunch of people here that are here. Clearly, the leaders in their companies. Yeah. And all very focused on trying to improve things, improve things through reverse Logistics, which, you know, for years was kind of a neglected area.

[00:02:25] Yes. Tony Schroeder, the executive director. Yeah. Calls it the dark side. Yeah. But that’s changing. It’s more and more because consumers is so important to the consumer experience and the e-commerce age. It’s front and center these days almost.

[00:02:41] Yeah. We’ve had a lot of conversations with people. I think, look, consumers are more aware and they forced companies to be more aware. People want to know where their goods come from. And now they want to know where they go to. And, you know, we heard in one of our discussions the other day, it’s not end of life. It’s about new life for a lot of these products. Right. And I think that’s a good purview to have, you know, considering the environmental impacts and things like that.

[00:03:07] Agreed. So, Bruce, before we talk about information list, let’s learn more about you and your journey. So where are you from? And give us give us the skinny on on your Epuron, the skinny side.

[00:03:17] I grew up in Illinois. OK. Dad was a quality control inspector, manager, very detail oriented kind of guy.

[00:03:27] Oh, man. I bet your chores and homework, were you? No, but he was very detail oriented guy.

[00:03:35] And mom mom always had a message for us and she said, don’t be a nonentity. And I went, you because I was a little kid. I don’t know what that means. You could do something with your life, make a difference, change things. And if there’s any one thing I want to tell do reverse Logistics professionals is get out of your own little backyard yard. Do the things to make reverse Logistics better. Do the things to improve your own function, but don’t limit it to that. Think about how else you can improve the rest of the organization. What impact? What new technologies can you use? How can you change things? So that’s where to operate.

[00:04:10] Learning man. And I like that tagline. Don’t be a not. Yeah. There you go. You’re going to use it on your show. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. Ryder mom. Right Mom. Yeah. You can.

[00:04:21] You can pay her. That’s right. Well let’s switch gears from from your personal side to your professional journey. CEO information kind of give us shed some light on that journey to get to this role.

[00:04:33] Yeah. So information is information solutions as a technology provider. So we’re a high tech company. We actually spun this out, this information which went on information solutions specifically to deal with the new RNC standard, which we’re gonna be talking about 12 N. That’s the abbreviation for. There’s actually a really long name, but twelve is good enough.

[00:04:56] Twelve and twelve enders will learn a lot more about that.

[00:04:59] Provender. Yeah. We’re going to have that new sports team, so. So technology company and. But, you know, it’s really weird that I got into this cause like in college, I started out and computer science was relatively new at that. You know, in terms of the masses learning it and I kind of got interested in it. So I got a part time job during the summer after my freshman year in college, working in a computer group right downtown Chicago, where every day trekking down there.

[00:05:30] And at the end of the summer, I told everybody, I will never work with computers. Those people are the weirdest damn people I have ever met. I don’t want anything to do with them. Keep me away from. I just don’t have anything to do with it.

[00:05:44] So. So. So that was it. That was the end of my career. Then I’ve got a business degree. And at the end of the business degree, I had to do a computer course. I went, well, you know, it’s kind of interesting, actually. Now I got back on that smart computer stuff, went to work for some pretty big company, State Farm Insurance, Apple, really several others, and did a bunch of management, but did a bunch of Technical management. So I was managing I.T. groups, Miura Standards Organization for our managed standards for state firms, 25 data centers for all the key thing. Then an apple managed a bunch of I.T. groups. Then I went off into the direct marketing portion and ran a separate business unit and ran into Logistics for our homes because it was a separate business unit. We were shipping compilers and so on and we had to send it, send out these packages, server dropship operation.

[00:06:39] And we had export control issues. We had problems with carriers, we had packaging issues. So in this little microcosm of a business within Apple, the major business, we were running into all these kinds of problems. Guess what? I’m still dealing with those kinds of problems and we enjoy solving them.

[00:06:58] And I do it solving them in new ways from what I understand. We’re gonna we’re gonna talk more about that, right?

[00:07:02] Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I found is as I continued through work was I liked I.T. because I got to see everything. We had to deal with sales and marketing. We had to deal with accounting. We had to deal with distribution. Logistics, everybody. So our view, you know, as an I.T. professional, you’re your view, especially as you get into management ism, isn’t just of this function or that function of the entire business. And how do I optimize that? So that’s pervaded my thinking. And then when we get into talking about twelve and a little bit, you’ll see how that affected that as well. So Gregg, let’s dove right in.

[00:07:43] Yeah. Well, I’d like to learn a little bit about your your company now information. So tell us a little bit about the business problems you solve. And particularly if someone’s walking down in the hall, down the hall in their office, what pain is going through their mind or what keywords? Right. Should they be looking out for to say, hey, this is a solution that I need?

[00:08:04] You know, I think when you have recurring pain, you sort of get numb to it. You know, you’re you’re right. You’re right, you’re right. Toe hurts. It hurt yesterday. It’s gonna hurt tomorrow. It just, you know, it’s always there. Yeah. And I think now and it’s sort of like you just sort of like, yeah, it’s written off. You just sort of deal with it. And so as a reverse Logistics professionals, a little Logistics professional, as a sales and marketing professional, you sort of get used to this is the way things are done. I send the garbage truck out, it picks up this kind of garbage but doesn’t pick up that kind of garbage. I schedule some sort of return. It’s handled in this particular way. So you get locked into this kind of thinking. And what we’re doing in information is applying this simple thing, 12+ standard, which is actually about labeling and barcodes right now. Ken Jacobson came to me as a neighbor of and he said, Intel’s got a problem. They need to get information on a label and get it on a package when they do triage on it. This is refurbishing and send it off to China for refurbishing. And and they need to get all the information I want. Well, so what? It’s a label. It’s a barcode.

[00:09:13] It’s boring, right? Yeah, it’s boring. And then he kept nagging me about it and we got into it more and more and we started going like women. What if we could change that from just being a label that solves a problem for Intel to a label that makes it easier for people to buy products at retail? What if that same label could be used to make it easier to register the product for the warranty? So instead of having, you know, one to eight percent registration on your product, this is a huge thing to marketing people, right? Right. Right. Because how do you keep in touch? What if we could do something to make that happen? To what if we could do subtlely make it easier to deal with technical support? What if we could change the paradigm?

[00:09:56] So let me ask you about one and I may have this apple. Patient long, so feel free to correct me. Jerai it’s happened all week. So you go into a big box store, maybe a big box store that isn’t known for its customer service. My appointee went out, but it got I don’t know who you mean it or where. There’s no not many folks on the floor. And you try to find one specific item and it’s in, you know, across this huge, massive store. I think if I understand you correctly, if you’ve got a helpful QR code.

[00:10:26] So let’s look at this great example. Let me give you let me expand on that a little bit. Let’s say you go into your favorite big box store and now you’ve got it. So we’re not going to use the name that I usually use. It starts with a W.. But when you go into your favorite big box store and they’re, you know, they’re common. Yeah. And they’re a big retailer. They’re selling a lot of different kinds of products. You are interested in buying a big screen television because you’re going to watch some sporting game. Right. And you get there and there’s 20 different, you know, seventy five inch monitors or TV or whatever. And you can kind of narrow down to a couple.

[00:11:01] But you got some technical questions. Who are you going to ask?

[00:11:06] Right. Yeah. For those of you who are just listening, hit his head, just spun around 360 degrees right here in the chair.

[00:11:11] All right. So it’s better to hide it. Yes. That’s great.

[00:11:17] So so that’s exactly it. You know, they’re probably not consumer electronics specialists there. You know, is that especially for TV? Right. So it’s hard not to find customer service specialists. Right. But there’s a lot of stuff.

[00:11:30] I guarantee you, they don’t know enough about the television for a guy whose dad was in charge of quality control.

[00:11:36] There you go. There you go. But even for people who weren’t. And, you know, if you’re going to lay down a bunch of bucks and you really, really want to see the best possible image of that football game, you might have a couple of questions. So you don’t get narrowed down to a couple of TV’s. Well, what if one of them has his. He’s twelve and QR codes. They do. And you scan it and then it gives you a couple of options. One of the options is specifications. So you can kind of like look at that and go like, oh yeah, this has the kind of screen or that. Then you see another brightness is pre-sales support. Pre-Sale support rings the phone. You’re online talking to the manufacturers. Pre-Sale support right there in the store right there. While you’re standing there in the store, you’re talking to pre-sale support. And they are the product specialists. They know about their product. They know about this model versus that model. Now, this ad, if you have this is it for manufacturers. They’ve never been able to affect retail sales in that way because they don’t have any connection with the customer. Right. Right. They just ship the thing and hope it sells. Right. And maybe put up some displays. So so that’s where the journey starts. Now, let’s say you you go and you you select a TV, you buy it, you bring it home.

[00:12:53] Now you go in as you’re taking out of the box. You scan another label, similar 12+ QR label. Hope we’re not getting too much of that background noise. Typically, we like the background noise. We’re in the thick of things. But they have got a super volume yet. Why does radio voice booming? Yes. OK. I got a rate of let’s do so. So now you get the product home? Yes. As you’re opening it up, I’m packing it. There’s another twelve and QR code. You scan this one this time, you know. So it’s an app on my phone. So you see a series of buttons and one button says, register, register my product. Right. So we’re talking about that before you touch that button, once your products are registered. You’re done. You don’t have to fill out any cards. You don’t have to go to a website. One click. Your product is registered. SALES and marketing is suddenly loving. UPS. Right. And the next thing is you maybe want set up instructions, you touch a button and maybe takes you to a video for that particular product. That’s completely up to date. Let’s say you get the whole thing set up and you still have a question or something isn’t working. There’s a button for tech support. So tech support can open a chat. It can open a phone call.

[00:14:09] The thing that every company at this show has loved the most is the simplest thing in the world for us to do a troubleshooting button. Now, you know what happens if your computer, let’s say, isn’t working?

[00:14:24] Oh, God. I know that never happened. Sorry. What am I saying? But if you just found my pain. Just just just for you, nobody else has a problem. Right.

[00:14:32] But your computer isn’t working. The biggest problem that these larger companies have, all of them, is that people pick up the phone and they call tech support. Instead of going to the Web site and finding the page, which has got all those same exact steps they want him to do. Really nice, condensed. Know that the reason they don’t do that is because all these websites are so big and take so long to navigate. People are bored.

[00:14:55] We don’t do it that way. You touch the troubleshoot button.

[00:14:59] The app, you know, when it displays, takes you directly to the troubleshooting steps for your product. Probably cutting off a good percentage of the calls that would otherwise be tying up the lines with doubt. Yeah. OK. And getting you to that information that much quicker. So you were asking for paines, right? Yeah. Now, the thing is, I think people live with the pain of they have a high call volume eating up their 800 numbers because that’s just the way it is. Yeah. Because tech support or customer or tech support. Customer support. I think they live with the pain of they can’t affect retail sales in any meaningful way. Yeah. Because that’s just the way it is. Well, we’re changing the way it is. We’re giving them a different way to operate so that they can affect their sales so they can reduce their costs. Yes. All right. So.

[00:15:48] So for the second time, I’ll move a little bit ahead, because I think I love the practical application. We don’t have three hours that we can make that happen. But I love it.

[00:16:01] I love the practical examples you use it most everyday consumers can relate to. So let’s talk about twelve and in particular. Charles, this is this is not my forte. What is what is was a twelve in. There’s a longer.

[00:16:13] So is that first. So though Ken heard about this problem with Intel, OK? Kinison part of it. Ken Jacobsen’s is part of the standards committee. And he fought to help form the standards committee here to come up with a way to solve this problem that Intel was talking about with the products coming in, tree out here, refurbished overseas information, not moving what the product in the correct way. There’s a whole lot of detail to that which we can skip over. But we got got together. And as we started talking about it and as we started here, getting more and more input from different companies about the problems that they were facing from especially in reverse Logistics, but also these other functions, we put together a data format, a way of structuring the data, and in particular we started focusing on these. Q early was because they can hope, like you said, 4000 characters. So it’s not just the old barcode with 100 characters, it’s a it’s 4000 characters. And so so let me give you an example. We’re doing a proof of concept with FedEx. Now for one of their business units and we’ve got a label over in the booth. And if you scan that label, it’s got information for that particular thing. It’s diagnostics on a.

[00:17:30] Well, when you look, we’re using euros EFT software. In that example, when you have euros off system in2 to scan the p.c, it provides a whole bunch of information about every disk drive, the c_p_u_, every component. Right. Right. I don’t care about that particularly, but repair people do. Right. So on this one label, we’ve got probably 90 fields of information on one QR code with all the little details of that, which is important to repair people so that when it moves along to the next step, they’ve got all that information, especially if it’s being shipped from one location to the other, you know, eliminates some of the guessing. Right. And saves a ton of time and helps diagnose and fix it. Hey, look, if you’re getting in, the worst thing is as a repair person. If a computer is coming back over and over again and you don’t know that that’s happening and you don’t have any history. So now what they’re going to use these codes for is putting it back in siring inside there. And it’s the history of all the problems that we found. What we did about it is the same computer. Let’s use that simple example keeps coming back and they keep changing the disk drive on it.

[00:18:36] Maybe it’s not the distressed Rod real problem, right? Right.

[00:18:39] But they wouldn’t know that if they didn’t have the history in the world of refurbishing, using computers or the example. Manufacturers use multiple refurbishes around the world. So when a computer comes back, there’s no guarantee it’s going to go back to the same place. And even if it does, there’s no guarantee that that place is going to have any record of it. It’s like going to different doctors office 10 times and write it.

[00:19:01] It no have all the information of the history that they’re not. They’re kind of diagnosing in the blind little bit. You’ve been there, so.

[00:19:08] So 12 N is the standard twelve. Is it for data driven?

[00:19:13] It’s the standard for how the data is laid out. It’s fairly complicated because once again we wanted to do something where it would have the biggest possible impact. If you’re a big corporation, do you operate only in the United States?

[00:19:27] No. Quick. OK, probably not. Right. You thought about that for a while, didn’t you? I was thinking what? How cool would it be to be a big corporation as me and only use the big Rod? Sorry. Yeah. So. So let’s say you’re big delusions of grandeur. I know. I know.

[00:19:44] But we’re going to help you with that. Because? Because what we included in the standard was each one of the fields can be in any language, any currency, in a unit of measure, grams, pounds, inches, you know. Writers, whatever. Euros, yeah, dollars, euros. All of those in each field. So if you’re a multinational company, you can have on that same label stuff in English stuff in German. Stuff in French. Pounds Deutschemarks with whatever have you. And then we got into thinking about it and go like.

[00:20:19] You know, you might want to have some information that you don’t want to share with the public, like where it was manufactured or anything. Revision number. Anything sensitive. So we put in three different ways of hiding data on the label where it’s encrypted and only authorized people can ever even know it’s on there. So once again, we’re trying to sell not just the little problem, not just the single problem of one one organization. So go back to mine. Don’t be a non-entity. Your new tag line. Right? You know, I have a new tagline if you’re reverse Logistics professional. Figure out what to do to, you know, in this case to use 12- in to help leverage up your organization to make it more efficient, to make things happen better. There’s so many problems and reverse Logistics now and then go over to the sales and marketing guys and get to know them and say like, hey, I got this way of doing this thing. But I can also, while I’m making that label, I could stick a button on there for you, too.

[00:21:14] I love it. All right. So before we leave information and Sherkin, it kind of broaden back out and we’ll talk about where listeners can and can find more information. But any last detail before we kind of brought it back out and get your thoughts on this race.

[00:21:29] So, yeah, so information’s role in all this as we make the systems to make all this happen. We make the systems that so 12-tone is the data format. And so but we make the app, there’s free up to 11 QR on all the app stores and then we make all the systems to facilitate this. So if they click that register button, the information gets back to the right company. And if they click. Tech support and so on.

[00:21:50] And so we keep it all up to date. Change world. I love this idea. Yeah. All right. So let’s broaden back out from what you’re doing and the teams doing the information that want to get your thoughts as a as a as a supply chain leader and technology leader. What are what are one or two trends or issues or developments when you think of the global Indian supply chain or the circular economy? What are you intrigued you the most right now?

[00:22:15] I had a great conversation yesterday as your timing’s good and I it opened my eyes and I just happened. I sat down at lunch and a lady I know works for one of the biggest waste management companies. And another person was a recycler dealing with textiles fabrics and started talking about the problems of getting materials, picking things up, getting them sorted in the right way. The expense of all of this. The troubles of Logistics, the problems of moving so many trucks around in cities and you can’t perkier any place and you’re gassing up the streets and garbage being on the street. And then flip side was delivering products to houses. I mean, we have an incredibly messed up infrastructure now. There’s no efficient way to pick up stuff from the house. Drop stuff off at the house and do it without it costing you a fortune. Right. So so I look at that and I love I love a lot of a lot of disciplines, but I’m looking at some of these problems and going like we have to start thinking in different ways about how we deal with transportation, getting things to the house in part of that.

[00:23:29] I mean, you know, with my little 12-inch tilt here is if we can have better labeling, even if it’s on stuff that eventually ends up in recycling, we can have that label printed. There’s ways of printing it where you don’t even see it, right, by the way, and that if that can help the sorting process and get it handled more efficiently. Yes. If they can help the recycling process, we got to be perfect. And when we worked on the 12+ standard, we have these field we call field indicators now came up with field indicators for the recycling industry. So at end of life, the customer so when they scan that label and it’s getting towards in the life, they can touch a button and it will tell them for this product, return it here. Yes. Or traded in here. You know, we got to start thinking about the environment. The economy. Yes. And, you know, doing things in a way that makes sense. That makes it. It all happened. So, you know. Greg, when I’m hearing the labeling does not do it justice.

[00:24:22] What Bruces tell you, our code doesn’t do it justice yet. Now. Well, now she’s talking about is better information when it’s data gathering. Yeah. ID here in the moment now. I mean labeling kind of belittles it a little bit because to your point you said labeling Maureen. I said barcodes especially. But I like get my same idea.

[00:24:42] Imagine a scenario where all of these products come in. Everything in your garbage. Let’s just start on this. War on terror comes in on a conveyor. And those barcodes or not barcodes, the QR codes or whatever the label is, is scanned and it’s sorted Ryder based on based on what the scan reads. That is that could be a virtually foolproof sorting system to assure that not only is it a plastic, but it’s this type of plastic. So it goes here. It’s that type of plastic. So it goes there. Right. Right. This can be incinerated. Now, this shouldn’t be incinerated. Right. All of those sorts of things are potential there. I was thinking of as I’m prone to do. I was thinking of of the incredibly complex regulations in the cannabis industry in both Canada and the states. And they use RFID codes and those are expensive. Right. So literally, every single plant in the cannabis industry has an RFID tag hanging on it. But if they could make that something more cost effective with more data information on it, that that would be game changing from a regulatory standpoint. And and I think that would greatly reduce cost and burden of both government and producers in that. And that’s just one other industry example. There are often lots of ways you could see this thing being.

[00:26:06] And this is great because this is typical when we start talking about this and you start. Right. People come back with more ideas of how it can be used.

[00:26:13] That’s how you know, you’re onto something. I know. You know that I you worked hard. All right. Now, that’s how you know, you’re on to something is when you are going down a path with the product you’ve developed and somebody goes, hey, could it be used for this or that or the other thing absolute. That’s when you know you’re onto something. So I think you’re onto something. And then.

[00:26:30] Thank you. Thank you so much. And that happens all the time. I mean, people use their own creativity because they’ve got their own problems. They’ve got their own things that they think about in the back of their head. Maybe it’s a little bit, you know, subterranean, a little bit under the surface, because it’s just they’ve lived with that problem so long. Yeah, but then they start seeing this. They go, oh, wait a minute, maybe I could solve my problem. Maybe I could do something in a better way.

[00:26:51] All right. So Bruce, as we as was talking close the interview here and let’s make sure folks know where they can learn more information. But information Sheer as well as connect with youth.

[00:27:00] Jerai. So you can go to information. It’s like three words i n f0r am isis i–when information dot com. And there’s a tab on there. There’s something about I cause about labels or about something like that 10 or about twelve. And there’s many, many tons of use cases on there. Kind of expand your thinking about how you can use this for manufacturing using rakhi hate. These are for reverse Logistics. So many different disciplines. Just ideas to get you started. Yeah. There’s links in there. To get you to more information, RLA site also has detailed information about the standard and to get in touch with me is simple. Bruce Scott Brown, B-R you see E Debbie Rowe w-when real simple yet infour mission? No.

[00:27:46] I have to I have to ask this question. Yeah. I mean, this is usually we wouldn’t even ask this question at this point. But think about it. How are you monetizing this?

[00:27:54] I mean, how do people pay you?

[00:27:57] I mean, how do you guys make money it and so so there’s no charge to consumers. Okay. We provide all the apps, keep everything free for manufacturers. There’s a small charge for interfacing to our systems to produce the labels correctly, to adhere to the standard and then also for the additional services like registration of products and things like that.

[00:28:19] Everything averagely a clearinghouse for the 12 in standard. Right. I mean, you’re know, we’re.

[00:28:24] Yeah. And the 12-tone standards. A public standard. Right. You can go and write your own code. Right. We’ve already gone off and written our own code, but we’ve written our own code in a way to make a generalized and attacking most useful across multiple industries, multiple countries. And, you know, so. So we’re we’re providing ideas based on the standard that we helped create. Because we think these are things in addition to just the bare bones, it’s a standard that everybody is going to need. I like it.

[00:28:53] Liers is a company that deserves to make money at this. I mean, this is this is a service as much.

[00:28:58] I’m ready for your channel. I’m ready for your tech right now. I’m not allowed to use the checkbook for my wife. Oh, yeah. She’s nodding up and down. I see. Okay.

[00:29:09] So we’ve been chatting with Bruce Brown, CEO. Information will make sure that that provides links to show that she can learn more about the company. Bruce, really appreciate you cut carbon some time out. Sheer really pleasure. David, Davinder, your story. More on a yelp and exhibiting here throughout the conference and clearly open having some Fassett conversation. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Thanks so much for your time. My pleasure. Sit tight. One seconds. We wrap up here, Greg. Another great conversation. The hits keep coming. A major Hurley. Right. Yeah. All right. So we’re gonna wrap up. So, you know, we usually invite our audience to come check us out in person where we’re gonna be in similar broadcasts like we’re here today. But Greg, we’re gonna explode. A version of that is go to our events tab at Supply Chain Now Radio dot com. You can check us out at Moad X 2020’s, you A-G.

[00:29:55] We’re trying to preserve our voices here to play the Sheer Automotive Industry Action Group, which had two events there.

[00:30:01] And of course, the Association for Manufacturing Excellence, we’ve got their event come up. May all find out more information on that. Find out more information on our stand up and Soundoff Global Interactive form, all on the events tab or the webinar tab at Supplychainrealestate.com. Greg, where can they find our podcast? For folks, I’ve heard this conversation and they want to know more.

[00:30:22] They’re going to want to know more on this one in particular, but they can go to Google podcasts, Apple podcasts, Spotify. Those are the most popular or even YouTube. If you really, really want to look at us.

[00:30:36] But thanks for joining us here today. Stay tuned for our continuing coverage here of the worst Logistics comp reverse Logistics Association conference and expo right here from beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Thanks for joining us and we’ll see you next time. Supply chain.