This week’s Buzz is on, with cohosts Kelly and Greg tackling the hottest topics of the moment. What’s happening with trucker drivers in Canada, and what impact will it have on the supply chain? What’s the Rooney Rule, and is it helping or hurting diversity initiatives? Are companies staying true to their ESG commitments? Listen to the episode to hear what Kelly and Greg have to say on these topics and more.

Intro/Outro (00:00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Kelly Barner (00:00:32):

Hey, good morning. And good afternoon everybody. Thank you for joining us here on supply chain. Now this is Kelly Barner. Oh my gosh. And Greg, we’re gonna do the was together today cuz Scott’s gallivanting around Vegas. Isn’t he?

Greg White (00:00:46):

He, he is. Yes. Uh, I’m sure. I’m sure he’s just left the uh, Chris, whatever his name is magic show at this point. Oh look, Amanda’s already here so she can report on him.

Kelly Barner (00:00:58):

Exactly. I know. Keep a close eye on him and Amanda and for any anybody that’s at the reverse logistics association, make sure you seek them out and go say hi, but being polite, Greg, I’m supposed to ask you happy Monday morning. How you doing?

Greg White (00:01:13):

I’m doing great. It was a, a great weekend. Um, I’m well below this storm, that seems to be disrupting the entirety of the rest of the, a planet and saw a few splashes of rain. But other than that, it’s uh, it was a great weekend. Little chilly. What about you? How are you doing? Cause you are right in the heart of it. If I

Kelly Barner (00:01:34):

Recall. Yeah. So we talking about weather now or running the live stream. Yeah. Isn’t

Greg White (00:01:39):

That what we’re supposed to do? Yeah. So that’s how we’re supposed. We’re supposed to talk about

Kelly Barner (00:01:42):

Weather. The weather has finally settled. We had our snow. What is it? Snow bomb. Snow explosion bomb hurricane nor Eastern thing. Shark. NATO. Yeah. We had that last week. So that at this point is mostly cleared up. Um, we’ve got some residual ice. We still got a bunch of snow and it’s wicked cold because it’s Boston and it’s February. Yeah. We check the weather wicked. It’s always wicked cold. It’s either snowing or not snowing.

Greg White (00:02:13):

Yeah. Um, yeah, it that’s funny. I like that. That reminds me of a buddy of mine that said something in college yogurt either sells or it doesn’t. I’ll never forget that.

Kelly Barner (00:02:27):

Fortunately we have shark NATOs but no yogurt NATO because yogurt is on my like do not eat list. There’s just, there’s just no way. And you have to have food in a supply chain now conversation. So I’m declaring yogurt off limits. I don’t care how good it is for me. There is just not going down.

Greg White (00:02:48):

No. Okay. I’m I’m with enough sugar. Um, and enough other flavors in it. Oh, well frozen

Kelly Barner (00:02:55):

Yogurt that I can frozen yogurt. I’m just not doing the healthy Greek stuff. That’s that is just too much. So today is a little bit different. You and I are doing the buzz together. Um, but I don’t have the snazzy pro set up that Scott does, so I’m not gonna SWO and SWO and whatever and graphics. Um, but before we get started, I have a few events that are upcoming to share with everybody. You’re just going to have to visualize what all of these graphics look like. Okay. So we have a webinar coming up at supply chain. Now later this week data at the heart of supply chain, resiliency and agility that’s later this week. So check out either supply chain now, social media or the website, and make sure you sign up and save your spot for that. And

Greg White (00:03:45):

Friday, February 11th. So

Kelly Barner (00:03:48):

Time is running short. We’ll be,

Greg White (00:03:50):

We’re gonna be working on Friday, Kelly.

Kelly Barner (00:03:52):

You can’t four day week, Greg. You can do it from the beach.

Greg White (00:04:00):

Uh, okay.

Kelly Barner (00:04:02):

So yeah, deal. And I think I have full negotiating power for Scott today. They gave me control of the comments. So we’ll say hi to a few people in a couple of minutes, but I think that also gives me the right to approve your location transfer. You can do the webinar that works for me.

Greg White (00:04:18):

Yeah. Okay. I put it in my

Kelly Barner (00:04:20):

Calendar. There you go. Now, speaking of calendar, we also have coming up March 1st is the deadline for award nominations for the supply chain and procurement awards. First time it’s global, first time it’s fully virtual. Um, and we’ve had a great campaign and actually an interview that’s coming out soon, um, with Tim Nelson, CEO of hope for justice. So Scott and I recorded that last week. What an interesting guy. He really, he is a super interesting guy and he’s someone who’s in the right job.

Greg White (00:04:53):

Yeah. It’s funny you say that. Cuz we interviewed him, uh, sometime back and I don’t know if I don’t know what the episode number is. I’m sure somebody can tell us, but we inter interviewed him some time back and man, is he in the right job? And is he dedicated to this cause, which is great. And something that supply chain can really impact human slavery and um, you know, and trafficking and all of the, those sorts of things that we can now with the transparency that’s available in the supply chain, we can keep our eye on and do something about. And probably the biggest can intention of professionals in the world are supply chain people to be able to keep an eye on and do something about this. So I’m glad we picked that as me too, as the, the philanthropy that we’re gonna support through the supply chain and procurement awards and I’m looking forward to it. Yeah,

Kelly Barner (00:05:39):

No. And it’s, as you learn about it, like just the scale of the problem associated with, with modern slavery and human trafficking and it’s not far away. I mean, we learned just recently Atlanta has major problems being a hub for people passing through. Um, so it’s a problem that no matter where you are, it is a problem there. Um, but as overwhelming as all that is, you’re absolutely right. Greg procurement supply chain professionals, we have a huge opportunity to step up and actually make a difference in this area. Okay. So last event real quick. Um, I’m obviously dial P here at supply chain now, but I’m also head of, uh, content and brand partnerships at art of procurement. And we also have a digital event coming up, digital outcomes. That’s March 8th through the 10th. It’s two hours each day, it’s free to attend. Um, so please make sure to Google and sign up for that. We’re bringing in some really different speakers. We’re gonna take a different look at the role. Technology can play in procurement, not the old features functionality stuff. We’re gonna stay focused on actual outcomes. I know. So that should be, that should be an interesting event. So like I said, it’s free and it’s virtual from the beach. Make sure you, you sign up for that and join us for that two hours each day, March 8th through the 10th

Greg White (00:06:55):

Look, I think outcomes is what technology and the digital transformation exist for. Yes. Not for their own sake, but to create these outcomes. So I think it’s important to, to think about what the, what you want to have happen, you know, what, what you want the result to be, as you think about the technologies and digital aspects of your business. Absolutely.

Kelly Barner (00:07:17):

All right. So in pure buzz tradition, let’s pause and say hi to a few folks. Oh, and I just have to show off, I got myself a nice mouse for today. So there’s a digital outcome right there. Um, so, so let’s say hi to a few friends that I see popping up in the comments. Hey Peter, Peter Bole all night and all day. Thank you for being here with us today. Um, I also,

Greg White (00:07:44):

My goodness. We’re gonna talk a little bit about S in a little bit.

Kelly Barner (00:07:49):

Oh, hang on Peter. Wait, stay

Greg White (00:07:50):

Tune. That’s right,

Kelly Barner (00:07:52):

Amanda. Good morning from Vegas. It is early out there. Hope you guys have an awesome day at. RLA glad you were able to join. Oh, wait, I have a gambling update.

Greg White (00:08:05):

Oh, oh, roulette. Oh, how are the odd James Bond? Really? James Bond wins it roulette and

Kelly Barner (00:08:14):

James Bond wins it, everything. So not good to base it on his results. Um, we got a whole bunch of people in here, Dr. Rhonda on Zimer Zimerman Hey,

Greg White (00:08:27):

It seems like we haven’t seen her lately. I know, but she’s here with us. The weather is too good in Phoenix. So she’s probably been out hiking instead of watching us. And what were

Kelly Barner (00:08:35):

You sharing about Phoenix earlier? The undercover witness capital of the world,

Greg White (00:08:41):

The original witness protection program, the

Kelly Barner (00:08:43):

Original witness protection program.

Greg White (00:08:45):

So there’s some fantastic food in Phoenix

Kelly Barner (00:08:47):

From all over the country, probably right.

Greg White (00:08:51):

Maybe,

Kelly Barner (00:08:52):

Maybe. All right. So I am going to, Hey, look at that. I’m already doing okay. All right. So I’m gonna do something a little bit different. I’m actually gonna share right up front what the four stories are that we’re gonna hit. And the reason that I’m gonna do that is because I think we need to pace Greg. There’s some stuff going on in the world right now. And Scott told me I can talk about whatever I want. I’m not gonna waste this opportunity. We’re gonna talk some big stuff today. We are gonna talk about the truckers up in Canada. Huge story. You can’t be in supply chain in any capacity and not the freedom convoy

Greg White (00:09:29):

Freedom convo,

Kelly Barner (00:09:30):

Right? Convoy. Yeah. We’re gonna talk about Brian Flores. The NFL. Trust me. It has a procurement tie in, we are gonna talk about corporate sponsorship of the Olympics, right? So there’s some, yes.

Greg White (00:09:47):

Our friends at Coca-Cola

Kelly Barner (00:09:48):

Right. And our friends in China as well. Greg, I hear you tend to get a little fired up when China comes up on the bonds.

Greg White (00:09:58):

Yeah. Sorry. I’m taking a deep breath now.

Kelly Barner (00:10:00):

Well, I’ll tell you what I was a little worried about being the grownup host today. So I do have my paper bag all ready to go just off camera if I need to. Okay, good. Get the breathing under control. So I’ll, I’ll virtually pass that over to you so you can get centered before we start talking about the Olympics. And then thank you actually we’re I think we should start, as I said, we’re gonna pace let’s step into this slowly, cuz you shared an interesting article this morning from crunch base about supply chain funding. So after a record year, there are no signs of slowing down around supply chain, investment. Greg, what were a couple of the, either numbers or key points from this article that jumped out at you?

Greg White (00:10:42):

Yeah. Last, last year, 11.3 billion invested in, in supply chain startups. And that’s I forget the number now. I’m sorry that that’s a sign. You mentioned China, which really distracted me.

Kelly Barner (00:10:58):

Um, would you say wicked big it’s a wicked big number wi

Greg White (00:11:01):

Big it’s a wicked big uplift from, from the previous year 2020, which was a record by multiple billions of dollars then as well. And as you said, no signs of slowing down in the reason for that is because there are so many op opportunities for new technology and fascinatingly. A lot of it is much, much more science based and less, um, and data based and much, much less, uh, what I used to call brute force type technology that we used to have in supply chain. So it’s been, uh, it’s been a big change. I work with two different, uh, investment funds. One is for seed and startup companies. And one is for growth stage companies, um, that are investing pretty heavily in supply chain startups. So, and we are seeing a lot of companies out there and a lot of opportunity and of course, a lot of money out there for these companies. So the time is ni for us to, uh, you know, to move into a technological revolution in supply chain and uh, you know, almost all of it really accelerated by the COVID situation. And, um, companies are responding and they’re they’re uh, even the investors have a tremendous amount of talent and skill and bring some interesting external perspectives to supply chain. So

Kelly Barner (00:12:29):

To that point and, and here’s what I was kind of wondering you follow supply chain in investment space so closely, there’s been so much attention lavished on the disruptions and the problems and the issues over the last couple of years is this yep. Is it sort of like the gold rush, like last week I was inventing milkshake machines or designing sneakers, but boy, those guys in supply chain have no idea what they’re doing. I couldn’t possibly do worse than them. And so everybody’s jumping in, is this sort of like a, it looks simpler and easier to fix from the outside kind of a problem is that part of the draw,

Greg White (00:13:06):

There are, it’s always that way, whenever you have a hot space like this, um, there are a lot of people who, who look at it and think that, um, you know, disruptors are typical, typically have this blessing of naivete. Um, but what you’ve, don’t what people don’t recognize in supply chain is that there is this incredible undercurrent of complexity that you have to deal with that you don’t have for instance, in social media, right? And you don’t have in eCommerce and you don’t have in some of these other, other technological areas that are very, very complex. I, uh, I would kind of, um, compare it to, uh, biotech, but not biotech tech software technology, more like hardware, the, the intricacies and the time spans and the requirements of, of that are substantial. And there are no quick fixes with, with hardware technology in, in healthcare and it’s similar in supply chain.

Greg White (00:14:05):

So, um, you know, we’ve seen a lot of kind of gold rush mentality. There are a ton of, of, uh, what people like to call EC electronic brokerages or technological brokerages, which are brokerages, um, with usually with just reporting or something like that. And I weed through companies like that all the time, there are lots of companies who have artificial intelligence or blockchain, but it’s not really their science, right. And, and that’s not a sustainable practice. And, and there are a lot of companies that actually have a really good point of view on this and their blessing of naivete combined with some people, with some tech, some, uh, proprietary or, or practitioner expertise in the industry have really had some companies make hay in, in this space. And, um, there are real advanced technologies that can and should be applied here. But yes, it is a gold rush.

Greg White (00:15:02):

Yes, lots of funds will lose millions of dollars, but that’s what they bet on. I mean, you know, the way that a, a venture capital fund works is they ex you know, they invest in 10, they expect three to be complete flops. They expect, uh, five more to be, you know, kind of mediocre and then one or two will maybe, um, make the whole fund profitable. So, um, you will see always a lot of that. Yeah. But I, I, I gotta tell you some of the, uh, companies that I’m working with, some of the funds that I’m working with, they have very discerning eyes and one in particular, Jack Freeman at each

Kelly Barner (00:15:40):

Chan. Yeah. Jack’s great.

Greg White (00:15:42):

He is. And he’s got, you know, him, right. Do so, you know, how analytical and capable, and he loves the whole concept of Combinator analytics, which is a hard, that’s a hard term to use first thing on a Monday

Kelly Barner (00:15:57):

Morning. Um, Yeah. Yeah. That’s more of a Wednesday

Greg White (00:16:01):

Afternoon work. That, that is really the root of what most companies stumble over is these combinatorial analytics, because there are so many variables in the supply chain and, um, anyone who can conquer that and anyone who can invest and understand that dynamic is gonna be a great asset to any company that’s coming up as they, as they grow. Absolutely.

Kelly Barner (00:16:23):

So shameless self-promotion. Thank you, Dr. Rhonda, I’m off to a good start. I’m gonna share your vote of confidence. We also have Mohe with us, um, nice to know it’s bomb cyclone. Wow. Now that I think about it. So bomb cyclone. So clearly Ji’s not having a bomb cyclone in Wichita, so I’m, I’m glad for you, but

Greg White (00:16:45):

It looks like they might have, I know

Kelly Barner (00:16:47):

Maybe a couple days ago that is, that is cold. Um,

Greg White (00:16:52):

Yeah. And my mom let me know that it was like a 12 minus 12 and I think minus 25 wind chill factor. I don’t know if everybody knows this, but the wind always blows, literally never stops

Kelly Barner (00:17:03):

In Kansas. And it really takes the feel down like that is when the wind is blowing. It makes a huge difference. Um, and we have clay and we also have cat and we also have Chantel, everybody was talking me down before the live stream. So I’m so grateful we have the best production team in the business. Um, glad you guys are with us chatting with everybody in the, in the comments. All right, Greg, you ready? Cause it’s about you get intense. Let’s do. Okay. All right. Yep. Seriously, freedom convoy. Right. So this was a story that I really felt strongly we needed to talk about. And yet it was a complicated one to add to the discussion list for today because I knew I was gonna have to monitor it through the whole weekend. Things are changing pretty quick and pretty intensely, and I was right to be following it.

Kelly Barner (00:17:56):

So just a couple facts for folks. Um, the quarantine requirements for non vaccinated drivers crossing the border back and forth from the us to Canada are, are pretty intense. And so there’s somewhere between 500 and 1200 trucks and cars that have all parked themselves, um, to protest and demonstrate. And I think there’s a couple of interesting things that we saw from this. I mean, it’s getting a lot of eyeballs. We’re all looking north to sort of see what what’s gonna happen with these truckers. So, Peter, I know you’re here, jump in if you wanna share a, a Canadian perspective on this. Um, but it, I think we’re, we’re seeing two things. We’re seeing what social media is doing around making it possible, especially for long haul drivers that would’ve been rather isolated in the past to right. Arrange themselves around a cause and work together, right.

Kelly Barner (00:18:52):

To get their point across and sort of represent their point of view or also seeing some interesting stuff around funding. And so the big news that broke over the weekend was that there was a little over 8 million that people had donated through GoFundMe. It hit 10 million and then GoFundMe took it down. So now know all that money, right. Is going back to everybody that donated it. Um, and that was something that broke. I think it was late Friday, early Saturday when we started hearing that news. So this is a, a quickly changing situation. Greg, what do you think the world is learning about truck drivers right now?

Greg White (00:19:29):

Uh, well, uh, you know, we talked about this off the air, Jay and Vera has said this, if truck drivers ever get together as a force. Yeah. And they use social media as a vehicle, um, what an incredibly powerful force this is because, uh, you know, I’ve only read some cursory reports, but apparently this thing started on the west coast of Canada and just continued to grow. And I think of the song from when I was a very small child called convoy. Yeah. Where just trucks just kept getting into the, the convoy and they smashed the gate doing 98, said, let them truckers roll 10, four. Um, uh, you’re not gonna sing it. They, you just give us the lyrics MCCA. It was kind of one of those talking songs. There were a lot of country songs that were talking songs in the seventies. Um, but I mean, incredible the power and the initiative of this.

Greg White (00:20:24):

And by the way, you know, um, GoFundMe took down the site and then decided to automatically refund all the funds because they had determined that there was some violence that violated their rules of order. There’s some argument around that, of course. And I’d love if anyone actually knows. I’d love to hear that, but a company called give, send go, yes. Uh, they set up a funding site and within two days they’ve raised, raised 3.5 million for, for this freedom convoy. So interesting that people will, and through this social media, as you said, people will find a way to support a cause that they, they believe in. And, um, I think interesting kind of the timing here as Europe declares victory over COVID and the mandates and the passports and the border restrictions and the lockdowns are coming off in Europe. That Justin, is that his name? Trudeau? Yes. He’s the younger Tru yeah. Sorry. Um, showing my ignorance yet

Kelly Barner (00:21:32):

Again, I won’t tell him, you couldn’t remember his name, Greg. Don’t worry about him. Yeah. I

Greg White (00:21:35):

Mean, it’s, you know. Yeah. Um, you know, it’s, it’s interesting that he picks now to have this battle. Yeah. And, and to really do this, when I think the even science agrees that the implications of this are, uh, a non-factor now, so I’m not sure exactly what this is. I also can’t help, but harken back to the peaceful protests that we had in the states wherein we let people burn buildings to the ground and declare areas off limits for police and anyone who disagreed with them and commit horrific acts of violence and murder. And yet the government took this stance on this particular group, which has apparently not shown any significant violence other than apparently fireworks or, or whatever. Maybe some fights who knows again, if anyone knows, I’d be interested to hear about that, but it is, it is interesting, the power of drivers. And it is interesting, um, that in Canada, I mean, Canadians are such polite people. I really don’t. I really never saw this coming honestly.

Kelly Barner (00:22:47):

Well, and it’s interesting. So Greg are actually getting some local, um, lemme pull a couple of these up, first of all, super interesting Peter Bole, listening to his mom, anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Unique new position for Peter. Peter’s a, a, yeah. Common attendee, a very outspoken rep on a lot of our are different shows, but now here’s a different perspective. Susan is sharing, she’s driving around AWA and it’s changing things for everyday people trying to get around the city. That’s, that’s a perspective. We’re not necessarily getting on the news here.

Greg White (00:23:25):

Yeah. It’s over 500 vehicles and you know, my, I, I can’t help, but, um, state that when I first heard this, I thought, okay, are those trucks running empty? And if they are, what is that doing to, yeah. The supply chain in Canada.

Kelly Barner (00:23:41):

Absolutely. Um, it sounds,

Greg White (00:23:44):

This is a common practice in Europe and in south America for drive truck drivers to jam the streets and completely block commerce in big cities. And, and, um, it’s fascinating that it’s just finally coming to north America to me. And you

Kelly Barner (00:24:02):

Wonder if it’s gonna show up in the us. Right. I mean, I know there are probably some us truckers out there in Canada, you know, not that far, we are connected by land. Um, but you wonder if this isn’t gonna be something where we’re all looking at it right now, but over time, is this gonna become a little bit more common once these guys have figured out they can organize once you just kind of do it again, right?

Greg White (00:24:24):

Yeah. Yeah. And I gotta tell you, I I’m, I, where I’m at is I’m hopeful that we are starting to come out of the seriousness of this, this pandemic and it, and it sounds like the scientists agree that it is becoming more endemic and it will be yet another there’s version 2 20, 3 of the common cold, and this will become version and whatever number they’re gonna assign to it. Yeah. Um, and I’m hopeful that that’s the case and the timing of this really both, both of the protest and of the mandates. And as Peter said, these mandates have been in place four weeks, maybe more, um, um, but it’s in interesting that everyone picked now to, to make, make their stand. So, yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:25:15):

And I think

Greg White (00:25:16):

So it gets Canada in the news. Right. So I think that’s, that’s a plus.

Kelly Barner (00:25:22):

I know. And, and we’re all here in the Canadian Anthem a little bit more, we’re seeing some Canadian flags wave

Greg White (00:25:27):

Flags. Yeah. You know, which I, one of my favorite flags, the maple leaf, so,

Kelly Barner (00:25:32):

Well, it’s definitely a recognizable brand, right. UCF flag, you know exactly where that flag is from, um, Skippy. So we’ve got interesting David, so there’s some disagreement on the, on the ground between people. You know, I think these conversations are important to, because for our different perspectives, I happen to think, right, this is gonna be one of those moments everywhere, but certainly within supply chain, we are gonna be looking back and studying this moment as the moment that driver mindset changed other people’s mindset around working with drivers and the structure of how all this should look and, and all of that changes. I have a feeling that is significant as that seems right now, it’s significance. We’re only gonna become more aware of it as, as time goes on. And as, you know, future repercussions or changes potentially fall from this.

Greg White (00:26:25):

Well, it’d be interesting if they, you know, once all of this, this mandate stuff passes, which it inevitably will ill, but it’ll be interesting to see if they don’t do a similar thing about, um, you know, the inability to park vehicle absolutely. To park their trucks and that of thing. Right. I mean, um, although I gotta say Scott and I used to talk about this quite a bit over the last two, three years and it, and it has become less and less of an issue. Uh, so, and, and I have seen, as I drive the interstates, um, I have seen where there are a lot more accommodations it’s okay to stay at waste stations in some states, some places overnight it’s okay to stay overnight in. Um, you know, in, in rest stops and truck stops are being built at a frenzy pace along a lot of these highways, but it was

Kelly Barner (00:27:22):

Probably a problem for a long time, like a really, really, really long time. And I have a feeling, things are gonna resolve themselves a lot faster. Now that everybody’s aware they have this kind of, sort of like collective bargaining power. Right. Even if they’re not efficient.

Greg White (00:27:37):

Yeah. I mean, its it’s, it’s not formal. No. Right. I mean it, or I mean, it may become formal, but it won’t don’t necessarily become a union, which is good. Cuz then they won’t waste their money giving dues to the nevermind. Um, um, but, but, but you’ve seen this Panos. Yes. Um, so, um, but, but I think that that for people to see that they have this kind of power and that even when on one platform they are arguably oppressed or whatever you wanna call it repressed. Um, they can move to another one. Yes. I mean this, this thing refunded 3.5 million in two days, that is incredible. 150,000 I think is what the one article said in just moments after opening it. Yeah. That’s

Kelly Barner (00:28:28):

Incredible. So also the distributed power, we were just talking about the impact that new investors are going to have in the supply chain tech space. Now we’re sort of seeing not the same dynamic, but we’re seeing another way that sources of funding and investment are shaking things up. And that certainly is gonna keep it interesting. Well,

Greg White (00:28:46):

The pay pace of the world and the pace of change is definitely a huge impact on the supply chain because this is a huge disruption in Canada. Yes. Right. And you know, one of the things that companies have to do to stay ahead of the game is they have to both anticipate and respond rapidly and to changes in the impacts and in the supply chain. We’re, I’m sure we’ll talk a little bit more about that as we go through a couple of these other stories indeed. But that’s critical. The pace of response is critical. And I, I think there is much, much more we can do to predict or preempt the kind of disruptions yeah. That, that are occurring because of these kind of activities. Yeah.

Kelly Barner (00:29:27):

So let’s actually take this as our break to go to the second, big story. Now, Greg, you’re gonna help me with this one. We’re each gonna take a different perspective on this story. So what we wanna talk about is Brian Flores, former head coach of the Miami dolphins is suing the NFL over. What’s called the Rooney rule. So the Rooney rule, the intention of it is to increase diversity at the, the head coaching and, and team level, um, adopted in 2003, it requires that head coaching positions and general manager candidates include interviews for at least two individuals of color in the interviewing process. Now Brian was recently interviewed for a position. He did not get the job. He is now blaming the Rooney rule for him being included in what he calls a, a sham interview. He’s considering it not real. And I’ll kind of talk about the, the diversity side of things, cuz that’s something I’ve been focusing a lot on the corporate side, but before I do that, can you sort of give us the, the football perspective on this?

Greg White (00:30:37):

Yeah. I mean, let me start with, uh, you know, kind of the facts of Brian floor as one. Um, he’s alleging a number of things let’s not go there just yet, but let’s talk about his coaching. Um, he won five games in his first season as head coach of the, of the dolphins. He went 10 and six, the next season and nine and eight the season after which was last season, um, with, um, you know, someone else’s personnel. So I, I think, I think his 20, I think it’s a 25 and 24 record over three seasons. Arguably. Pretty good. Yeah. Um, if you compare, I mean, if you compare other head coaches who have gone on to be quite successful, um, you know, they haven’t done even that Wells often in the first three seasons. Um, Brian Flores was a defensive coach, uh, at, at the new England Patriots, uh, and one and was one of their defensive coaches during the super bowl. Um, I can’t remember which super bowl you’ll have to forgive me, but cause they’ve been to so many, well, I’m not gonna

Kelly Barner (00:31:43):

Football fact check you. I’m sure somebody watching or listening can jump in with that.

Greg White (00:31:48):

Someone who’s wicked smack wicked, who’s a wicked smack Patriots fan. Um, yeah. Um, and, and you know, the, the beef that Brian has is that this Rooney thing is a sham. And arguably, you know, these are token gestures by the owners and there is a SI significant systemic or cognitive bias that is, uh, inherent in the NFL. Or maybe even, maybe he’s even only focusing on the owners. Um, which, I mean, when you look at the numbers, I mean, I don’t know, I, I don’t know how hard it is to argue that, but, uh, you feel like there ought to be because, um, black people make up 13% of the population in the states, it seems like 13% of the coaches in, or your head coaches in the NFL ought to be black. So, um, and over the years, uh, over the last few years it’s been a number significantly below that.

Kelly Barner (00:32:48):

So, yeah. Well, and it’s interesting. So I’ve been covering, so supplier diversity, right from a procurement perspective is where you try to bring certified minority woman owned, veteran owned, LGBTQ and disabled, uh, businesses. You deliberately try to bring them into your supply chain and one of the complexities, and this is something I’ve heard from so many people, is that so often the time it does end up seeming like a box check, it seems like a token exercise. And you’re actually inadvertently hurting those businesses because there’s a significant opportunity cost associated with competing in an RFP that you’re definitely not going to win or investing time trying to build a relationship where you actually don’t have the potential to get business. And I thought one of the things that Brian said in an interview, I think it was on CBS morning is he talked about the fact that with a rule like this in place, even though it’s well intentioned, it means you never know means you don’t really know. Did I get this interview because I have a shot? Did I get this interview because of the Rooney rule? And then likewise, did I not get this job? I wasn’t the right guy, or did I not get this job because I was never going to get this job, having those lingering doubts, it’s hard enough interviewing for something, this high pressure and, and high visibility. How can you have your head in the game if you’re wondering about all this stuff going on, sort of as a backdrop.

Greg White (00:34:18):

Yeah. And yet, uh, I’ve read some other stories where, uh, a lot of black head coaching candidates have had, have done, I think, a bang up job. And I think, I think Brian did a really good job per personally. I have a lot of respect in admiration for Brian because the chiefs were the number one seed in 2019 team because Brian, um, beat the Patriots in the last game of the season, which gave us the one seed and they, the subsequent season did beat somebody else that helped us become, uh, the one seed in 2020. So, um, he’s done right by me and he’s, and he’s a great defensive coach. And considering that, um, he, I mean, and this is what I know about the, the, um, team, because I have a very close friend, who’s a Miami do dolphins fan. And, um, one of my former co-founders, um, and you know, he said he was not left with a great offense.

Greg White (00:35:20):

He’s got a rookie quarterback who’s obviously struggling and has always had a, you know, a tough time. They’ve had a tough time, uh, creating a good offensive line, all of those things too, of course. But I think that the, the important thing here is that, I mean, let’s face it, the Rooney rule. I really appreciate what the Rooneys were trying to do, but it does completely create a token gesture. And in when I’ve read some of the other articles around this, uh, Hugh Jackson also currently a black coaching candidate who has been a head coach in the past as well, you know, and, um, I forgot the first name, his last name is Horton, who is no longer coaching in the NFL. So they think they, that the Rooney rule ought to be abolished. And I can’t disagree with that because to your point, you get what you manage towards what you measure.

Greg White (00:36:13):

Okay. They did the two, they did the two interviews. Great. That’s not the goal. No, that’s not to your point a about your, your sessions, uh, in, in March, that’s not the outcome that we want. We don’t want token interviews. We want talented and deserving head coaches to, to be able to be put in place. And I think if a rule is ne necessary, then it ought to be more focused on the outcome that we desire, not the, you know, the hand waving that we, we want to see that that allows, um, the right kind of visibility for the, uh, and optics for the NFL. Yeah. To me, you know, having observed it for a lot of years, there is no question that if, if not intentional, there is at least cognitive bias in the NFL. I mean, these are old white billionaires that own these teams, right.

Greg White (00:37:09):

Guess who they know other old white billionaires. Yeah. Right. And, and, um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a tough thing. I do. Don’t think it’s intentional. I, I do think that it is co what I would call cognitive bias, meaning they just don’t know. And therefore they go with where they’re most comfortable as most everyone does with people that they know or other people that they trust to advise them to make these decisions. And they just don’t know anybody that they can have help. One, one thing that I think is really interesting in my, my pointed this out is, um, and you know, this is something having come from an immigrant background that I learned as my, my family was very intentional about is this is the way America works. It’s not, I don’t believe that it’s a color thing. I believe that it’s a class thing in any country, the wealthy and the elite want to remain.

Greg White (00:38:06):

Yeah. Both wealthy and elite. And if we all join them, if we all are lifted up to become the elite, they are no longer the elite. They’re just the, the rest of us, like the rest of us. Yeah. So, so, you know, you have to learn how the game is played. And I think as more companies or more families start to realize that, and not only push against it, but also advise how to navigate it, which I was. And my parents and my grandparents were advised very carefully by my great-grandparents. This is how you navigate America. This is how you make things happen. This is how you get above your current station in the world. I think as more families are more, um, intentional about that, then we’ll start to see that happening. So in this, uh, Washington post episode, I’ll give you, um, I’ll give you the title, the Brian Flo’s experience question mark.

Greg White (00:39:02):

That’s the reality for most black posts or coaches that’s in the Washington post. Um, one of the coaches is coaching his own son to learn how to navigate these difficult water and to, to do these things. Yeah, it ain’t right. No, it clearly ain’t right. But it also is not going to change until we the lesser. And of course I’m not, I’m not equivocating my personal situation with black people. Of course they have a much, have much, much worse, but until we, and they, and whomever else is, feels oppressed until they learn how to navigate it, navigate this, these murky waters, it’s not gonna change substantially. So, um, you know, you just have to be super conscious about it and, and you have to push against the tide, which is tough to,

Kelly Barner (00:39:56):

Well, it’s ultimately a people problem. Right. And as, as Lamont hard points out here, right, just like I was saying, it applies in corporate America, as much as it applies in the NFL, I would argue that there’s not a place that this kind of dynamic doesn’t go on, whether it’s about race or gender or, or class. Right. And right. And I think the thing that’s so hard and goodness of anybody watching knows the answer, please, the solution can’t be worse than the problem. And I think what we have identified with this Rooney rule is that in this case, a solution that we thought was going to work, isn’t working as well as we would’ve hoped. So it’s not to say we completely scrap it. We learn from it. Um, but clearly some changes are required because it’s not having the, the effect that we, we need to see really for anybody involved in the situation.

Greg White (00:40:50):

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think, um, honestly I think it took a lot of guts for Brian to do what he’s doing. He’s suing the NFL. I think he’s probably, he’s probably, uh, fired a shot across the, about against, uh, some people who probably don’t deserve it or who have at least been, um, very outspoken in refuting his statement, the Denver Broncos, John Elway. Uh, um, but I do think that the NFL needs to change. There are a lot of things about the NFL that need to change. I mean, let’s face it, they’re a monopoly, right? Yeah. And,

Kelly Barner (00:41:30):

But not for profit, Greg, don’t forget. I just wanna make sure you, is that true? Yes. The NFL is not for profit because they don’t. Wow. Anyway,

Greg White (00:41:42):

That’s why Roger Gadel makes 200 million a year cuz they can’t make a profit.

Kelly Barner (00:41:46):

Got it. Yeah, I know. Right. Somebody should look them up on charity navigator. See what their rating is. Yeah. So it’s a, it’s a complicated situation, right? Anytime this much money is at stake that makes it so much harder to fix the problem. So as hard as it is to fix in corporate American and society in general, trying to fix it with these kinds of dollar values on the line, it makes it so much harder.

Greg White (00:42:10):

Well, and, and you know, the truth is this, this is really the, the difficult thing because we’ve, I mean, we’ve gone through a ton of different issues in the NFL. Look, let’s face it, football fans just wanna watch football. Right. Right. They just, and in fact they really just wanna watch their team and um, you know, they just wanna win. And I, I think it’s difficult when your constituency who does pay literally billions of dollars every year just wants, wants to be entertained. It’s, it’s hard for them to empathize, I think with a lot of these, these issues. So, um, but you know, I mean being a chief for, and we have a, we have a assistant coach, our offensive coordinator, Eric bien, who has been going, he’s the, basically the poster boy for this whole problem or was until Brian Flores, who’s been going through the process and has never gotten a head coaching job.

Greg White (00:43:13):

There have been a lot of mitigating discussions around that. The chiefs are two, you know, that go too far into the, um, into the postseason. So now you can interview coaches the last two weeks of the regular season. So that basically built a, the enemy rule. Yeah. Um, but I, I mean, I can’t explain why it isn’t happening. I can explain to you why it should happen. And, and, and as we were off the air to two words, tell me why this should happen. Tony Dungy, one of the greatest coaches in the NFL right. Happens to be a black coach as well. One of the most incredibly analytical and intellectual minds of the NFL ever. And if you’ve never seen him on television, you should check him out. Um, his bill to break down the game and predict it and understand it is, is exceptional.

Greg White (00:44:03):

He is, he is the prime example for why this can and should work. Um, so you, you know, everybody is equally capable in my mind and they just need equal opportunity to be able to, to do this. And I, I really applaud, I really applaud Brian for what he’s doing because he will definitely never coach in the NFL ever again. Oh no. Yeah. He will definitely not get any money out of this either. I mean, the lawyers will now get all the money because it’s a class action suit, but he could really affect a change. It takes guts to go nuclear and he did it.

Kelly Barner (00:44:43):

Yes, no, he absolutely did. And we need people to stand up like that. Right. And, and be willing to put it on the line to drive this kind of great last thought on this topic. And then we’re gonna switch to something, you know, simple and soft, like the Olympics. Um, but before we leave it, you’ve mentioned the chiefs a couple times. Do you guys have a game coming

Greg White (00:45:02):

Up? No, that’s why, that’s why I can do all of this analysis on the NFL is because football season is over for us. So yeah, it sucks. But, but no, you’re not. No.

Kelly Barner (00:45:16):

Yeah.

Greg White (00:45:17):

And you’re

Kelly Barner (00:45:17):

A Patriot fan. Well, and I’m not even, so I’m lucky. I’m not really a football fan at all, unless my son’s playing and he’s 12. So he’s been done for a really long time. Um, but it’s, if you can look at this stuff objectively, I almost think of it business as opposed to thinking of it in the, in the sports light. Um, I think that it makes it easier to be a little bit more objective and see it as a system with a problem versus seeing it as like, you know, is it entertainment? Is it business? Is it social justice? How do we look at it? Right. We gotta try to look at it as straight as we can.

Greg White (00:45:49):

We, we really, uh, as chief fans really had a front row seat watching Eric BI year after year after year, when we all know all of us know he deserves a shot. Um, and I believe that he wants it though. He has been remarkably unspoken on this topic. I, I believe that he wants it and I believe that he deserves it, frankly. I hope that he just stays with the chiefs and his OC until Andy Reed retires. And then he takes over for Andy Reed. That’s my strategy for the chiefs. Um, I would love it if we gave Eric bien, his shot at a, at head coaching. Well,

Kelly Barner (00:46:29):

We’re getting some really positive feedback here, Greg, let me share a couple of comments from the odd. So Mo’s put in request for the first copy of your book, um, on handling the navigation from what’s broken to, what’s gonna be fixed. He’s he’s ready. You just gotta put it down on paper. He’s he’s ready to follow you through that solution.

Greg White (00:46:50):

Awesome. It’s funny if I had recorded more conversations with my grandparents and great grandparents, I probably could have written the book 30 years ago. Um, but I mean, you know, I mean, you live in a city where, I mean, people were not just systematically and not just covertly. They were overtly. Yes. Right. The Irish were overtly excluded. Oh yeah. Irish native. We not apply. I remember seeing those signs. Yeah. Yeah. Irish need not apply. Right. So I remember those, those seeing those signs. I remember those, you know, those times and, um, and you know, and yet somehow, um, the Irish and you’re Irish, right. The Irish have, uh, have somehow elevated themselves. So there, there are ways to do it. Yeah. Right. German immigrants, uh, did it early revolutionary days and, and others. So I, I think there are ways to do it. And those playbooks yeah. Are, are things that we ought to expose to everyone. Yeah. Because they were very systematic and intentional family by family. Right. Right. To try and elevate the next

Kelly Barner (00:48:03):

Generation. Yeah. No, I mean, and, and I can speak to that firsthand. So I mean, not that I’m alone and this in Boston, but I’m second generation American. Um, you know, my grandparents immigrated here had a heck of a time getting their feet underneath them because I mean, we grew up with stories of Irish need not apply. And, and that was the situation that was being faced. Right. So all this stuff takes time. We have to keep at it. Um, and part of how we keep at it is we talk about it. So Brian Flores is taking the risk and kind of speaking for a lot of people. Um, and Kim, winter’s giving us credit for taking on these topics with the, with the, but buzz audience. So it’s, it’s not easy to be the one that stands up and it’s not always easy to be the one that says, Hey, we need to have a conversation about this, but that really is how we’re gonna drive the change that we want to see.

Greg White (00:48:54):

I think it is easy if you think about everyone as a person, right? Yes. I, I mean, I don’t, I don’t know a lot of people who actively discriminate against other people. I hear about it all the time. And I, you know, again, having had a black co-founder, I’ve heard some horrific stories, even experienced it with one of our other co-founders, um, which was a tragedy. But, um, but you know, I don’t, I don’t experience it person to person. And I think if we think of it as a person, to person thing, not a group to group or class to class or a color to color thing, right. If we think of it as a person, to person thing, you get to know the person, you get to know who they are. And even in a self-serving situation where you’re trying to win football games, you get to know a person and understand that that is someone that can help you succeed. And I, I just feel like we need to do more of that. I, I really do feel like it’s simple. You grew up in an immigrant family. I grew up in an immigrant family. I watched people interact who had absolutely nothing in common. I mean, our, the neighborhood, my grandparents lived in was, was Latino and Vietnamese. And I watched those people will integrate very, very tightly because they got to know one another as persons. Yes. Right. Absolut, not as a, a class or a nationality or anything. Yeah. So,

Kelly Barner (00:50:24):

So Greg, we got about 10 minutes and one more story to hit. It’s a big story. So we’re gonna try to yeah. Hit it quick because we would be remiss if we didn’t acknowledge some of the corporate advertising challenges that have arisen around this year’s Olympics. So being hosted by China, right. We’ve got companies, like, I think the, the big example that’s been written around an awful lot is Coca-Cola, they are a huge sponsor of the Olympics in China. But if you look around on the TV and magazines and newspapers, you might not know that here in the states, because this particular Olympics is troublesome. I don’t know. Do we go so far as to say unpopular, depending on where people are coming from. Um, but corporate sponsors don’t necessarily want consumers here to know, um, that they are supporting the games. I’ll give you, I’ll give you first thoughts there before we get a little more specific.

Greg White (00:51:20):

Troublesome is an understatement. This is the second time in, in, under a decade that we have put, we have put an arguably apolitical event in the most oppressive dictatorship on the planet. Right. Actively and openly oppressing someone who won a medal for them, by the way, a, a, they had a skier, a weaker skier who probably was into service as, you know, as a, as a Chinese athlete. Um, which is their, their most oppressed group. Yes. Right. Actively committing genocide, actively and openly, um, creating slavery in the Uighur province of Jang. Yeah. Um, and, um, you know, to give them that I, I can only say follow the money. Yeah. Right. Uh, China is, is Coca-Cola’s third largest market behind the us and Mexico, uh, by the way, Mexican Coke is still the best Coke ever because they use real sugar. Yes. If you can ever get Mexican Coke, drink that.

Greg White (00:52:30):

Um, and you know, it’s, it’s opportunism, it’s, it’s, autonomism whatever you wanna call it. It’s, it’s CRAs. Commercialism is what it is. And, um, you know, the beauty of a company like Coca-Cola is they like other mass companies, they can control the narrative around their product and they do. Um, and because even in this day and age, which never ceases to amaze me, you can control, you can control the news coming out of a country. Yeah. Like China. Right. Um, and when you control the press, you control the country. Well, and to that point, I mean, that is how leaderships are maintained is by controlling the

Kelly Barner (00:53:14):

Person that skier that you talked about. If I’m thinking of the same person, it made huge headlines that she was one of the two people they chose to carry the torch during the opening. And people were flabbergasted that she had been chosen because she is from the Uighur community. And people were not expecting this. Now the follow on to that, right. Which a lot less people probably saw is that I don’t think she did all that great in her event. And there’s some type of process. I forget what it’s called. When you, even your event, there’s like a gauntlet of media that everybody is expected to walk through. You don’t necessarily have to talk to the media, but the rule is you have to go through, you have to walk it this gauntlet, not only did she not talk to the media, they, I don’t know, whi her at the side door as she’s cross country skier, so no side, but they Wied her off and got her home somehow or other. And she didn’t even have to walk down that path. So to your point about the media and controlling the narrative and what countries allowed to broadcast outside of their borders, it’s a really, like you said, troublesome is an understatement.

Greg White (00:54:24):

I get, why come, why companies do it right. There is a ton of market. It’s the largest commercial market on the planet, China. Right. I get why they do it. Um, I’m incredibly conflicted there. I mean, having done business in China many, many years ago, I mean, it’s, it’s also fascinating to me that people are just seeing China as a production organization. I recall my father going over there in the, I think late seventies, early eighties, um, you know, craftsman tools and the, the tools that, uh, Kmart, if anyone remembers Kmart, um, um, the Kmart sold were made in the very same in China, in the seventies and eighties and volumes and volumes of product have been made over there for so long. Um, whatever you want, whatever you wanna say about the Chinese people, they are great. They are resilient. They are somehow surviving all of this, but this is a, this is a dictatorships dictatorship, China.

Greg White (00:55:29):

I mean, even the Soviet union, which I studied in college was not as harsh a dictatorship, of course, after they killed off millions of people. But after that point, they were not as harsh, a dictatorship as China is today. And that was 50, 60 years ago. Yeah. Well more than that. Yeah. Even so, um, it it’s, I, I still think of Tianmen square. The, the now completely erased from history tank running over, which as, as kids, we got to see in person live, running over someone who tried to stand in front of a tank to stop it from entering or, or furthering its progress in Tianmen square, just the, um, and, and, and that’s just a small representation of the kind of things that have happened. I mean, they mandated how many children you could have in China. And now they have an incredible problem because people gave away or worse yet did away with, uh, girl children so that they could have a namesake for their family. And, um, it’s, you know, it’s just an awful, awful government and it’s, you know, it’s a terrible dictatorship and to, to support it in any way, I find incredibly offensive.

Kelly Barner (00:56:54):

Well, and I think what I struggle with, I mean, ESG is a huge topic in procurement. I think it’s a huge topic everywhere, but we’re talking about it a lot because we’re trying to figure out a way just like with supplier diversity, how are we gonna hit these goals or metrics? Right. And so we’re trying to look at who are we doing business with and what type of business practices do they have and how ethical is the supply chain that they’ve built to serve them, which we’re then hoping helps them serve us. And I just have to wonder about the sincerity and the efficacy of a big corporation who claims to have an ESG program with one hand. But with the other hand, we’ll turn around and spend so much money in a country with these horrible human rights abuses. We, we talked about it with the truckers.

Kelly Barner (00:57:41):

I mean, this comes full circle. Maybe they can have, have this stuff in China, but we all have this information because some of it, much of it is coming directly to us through social media now. So we know we’re hearing stories from the athletes. People are starting, you know, even as like Elon mosque speaks out about, you know, the Uighurs and how they’re being treated and companies make decisions about which regions of China are they going to manufacture in, we are all learning as individuals. You can’t segment that you came like, oh, well, but you know, they planted a million trees. And so is that supposed to offset? You know, somehow as consumers, we all have to reconcile this in our minds, as we get the information.

Greg White (00:58:24):

Uh, you know, I think the approach to ESG has been exactly the opposite of what it ought to be. And that is if we can’t affirm, if we cannot affirm bad deeds or bad intent, we don’t, as we assume there is none. And I think our approach should be exactly the opposite if we don’t, if we cannot affirm good deeds, good intent. Good action. Good ethics, good sustainability, good human rights operations. We should assume that they are bad. Yeah. Think about, I mean, you know, this was not, this was how I was first educated on supply chain. Assume everyone fail you. So I have all, I mean, it’s not the, it’s not the most, um, it’s not the most optimistic way. The POY, is it a great way to create resiliency in your supply chain? By assuming that if you don’t know for certain that someone will, will, um, come through that they will fail you.

Greg White (00:59:26):

Likewise, if you don’t know that someone is doing a good deed, you should assume that they’re not that’s the approach. So this epiphany kind of came to me as the federal, the us federal government started to their policy around the Jin Jong province and their, their statement and their policy became, we will seize and assume your goods were produced with, with slave labor in J if they come from Jin Jong province, unless you can prove that they weren’t right, not, we will let you in, unless it can be proven that you aren’t or that you are right. And that flip has made more change than anything has in, in the past. And I think if we do, likewise, we assume not just things like human rights and sustainability, but if we assume that come companies, um, are aren’t using good practices, let’s say to assure our deliveries on time, then, then we can kind of create a scoring.

Greg White (01:00:32):

We assume they aren’t, unless they prove that they are. And isn’t that what we’re seeking in the supply chain, we’re seeking transparency. We’re seeking the knowledge, we’re seeking the affirmation that everything will go right. And by right. I mean, not just delivered on time, I mean, done right. Done well done the right way. Um, and I think that if we change that approach, then there is no choice. But to, but to change the way companies do the, because right now they can hide in the shadows. If we assume they are hiding in the shadows until they prove they’re not, they are forced then to change. That’s right.

Kelly Barner (01:01:12):

And I think that’s the positive note. We should end the hour on Greg. So thank you for being with me for this hour of the buzz. This was fun. Thank you everybody who comment and who joined us, did we tackle a lot in an hour? So now, well, Greg gets to go to the beach. The rest of us are watching for the bomb cyclone, but, um,

Greg White (01:01:35):

It’s we could have one here too. It’s gonna be like 48 degrees. So

Kelly Barner (01:01:39):

Yeah. So listen, thank you so much. Thanks to the whole supply chain now production team. Thank you to, to Scott and Amanda for going to Vegas so that I could have the chance to come do this. And we can’t wrap this Greg without saying, do good. Give forward, be the change that’s needed on behalf of the whole team here at supply chain. Now thank you so much for joining us. Have a great rest of your day.

Greg White (01:02:01):

Amen.

Intro/Outro (01:02:03):

Thanks for being a part of a, our supply chain. Now community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.