Ever wish you had your own on-call expert for all things supply chain? Well, this is your chance! In this episode, Mike Griswold of Gartner answers your questions on all of today’s pressing headlines. From the grocery sector meeting the moment with new technologies to the promise of blockchain, the expectations of ESG and the need to vet suppliers, Mike covers it all in this fascinating conversation with Scott and Greg.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:33):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton, Greg White with you here on supply chain. Now welcome to today’s live stream on time in full Greg, how you doing

Greg White (00:41):

Whoa, and really on time and in full none of those secondary calculations.

Scott Luton (00:48):

That’s right

Greg White (00:48):

Where you convince yourself you’re on time and in fall in full and you’re not

Scott Luton (00:54):

Never. No. So, Hey, we’ve got one of our most popular series we’re continuing here today. It’s like a OG. It’s an OG hour around here at supply chain. Now supply chain today and tomorrow with Mike Griswold, uh, with Gartner and Greg today. Yes. Back by popular demand, right? For the people it’s ask Mike anything. Yeah. So if you’ve got a burning question, opposed to our guru, Hey, get him in and we’re gonna get, Mike’s take great big show here today, Greg, right?

Greg White (01:26):

Yeah. I’ve got my popcorn left over from the Elvis movie I watched last night. And I’m just gonna sit back and watch Mike answer. I know you have questions.

Scott Luton (01:34):

I do. You seen it. I have not seen Elvis yet.

Greg White (01:39):

Austin Butler, who is the young man who plays Elvis the greatest Elvis impersonator ever sounds exactly like him. He does a scene, the famous scenes you’ve all seen from his show. You know, his show in Vegas and all that sort of thing. I mean, 100% duplicate. Wow. Not just able to do that crazy stuff that Elvis did, but I mean, you could overlay a video of Elvis and Austin Butler looks just like him. Anyway. It’s great. If you didn’t already hate Colonel Parker, which you should, if you’re an Elvis fan at all, you will unquestionably from watching this movie. Tom Hanks is brilliant in it.

Scott Luton (02:22):

I can’t hate Tom Hanks. Can’t hate Tom

Greg White (02:24):

Hanks. Hate Tom Hanks. Don’t hate the player. Hate the character.

Scott Luton (02:28):

Hate the game. Did any fried banana and peanut butter sandwiches make appearance?

Greg White (02:34):

Not ever? No, not ever, but one of his habits early, early in the movie, they do show. I can’t remember what it was. Oh, oh yeah. So, you know, he was a twin. Elvis was a twin. I

Scott Luton (02:46):

Didn’t know that.

Greg White (02:47):

Yes. And his, his brother Scott, Scotty died at birth and wow. He would always look up whenever he was looking up to the sky. That’s what he was looking towards

Scott Luton (02:58):

Was cool

Greg White (02:59):

For a sign from Scotty.

Scott Luton (03:01):

Yeah. All right. So we’re gonna have to have the Elvis hour, maybe after we have the Mike Griswold hour, they’re almost on equal footing and Mike’s got a slight edge in supply chain. I think Greg, which

Greg White (03:10):

You well to quote the great EP. How about a little less conversation? Little more action. <laugh> okay.

Scott Luton (03:16):

All right. So we’re gonna say hello to a few folks here in just a minute. Folks stay tuned. We got a great hour with the one only Mike Griswold here, but before we, uh, say hello to a few folks, folks, wanna keep banging a drum on this opportunity. These not words to step up and, and help out folks in need in Ukraine, Poland, and elsewhere. So of course our dear friends at vector global logistics are leading this effort, all that leveraging logistics for Ukraine as the title suggests as Greg updated us earlier this week, almost 10 containers have either landed or are on their way full of humanitarian supplies for vetted needs, families in need that are hurting. So the work, these are driven by the working session. So Tuesday, July 12th at 11:00 AM. Eastern time is the next working session. Folks. You don’t have to be in position to give, to, to join the meeting and just kind of get a sense of what’s going on to get a sense of the market Intel, to get a sense of what the vetted true needs are from folks there boots on ground. And you know, as always, if you’re in position to give or donate or what have you, of course, that would, that would be, uh, icing on the cake. So Tuesday, July 12th, 11:00 AM Eastern time. The link to join that is in the comment. And Greg, your final words on this really important initiative here.

Greg White (04:29):

Yeah. I mean, it’s a, it’s a great organization. Sit in, listen to the calls or just reach out to Ukraine, vector gl.com and volunteer. Anything you have action materials, time, whatever.

Scott Luton (04:46):

Yep. That’s a great call out. Make it easy

Greg White (04:48):

Money also. <laugh>

Scott Luton (04:49):

That’s right. It’s all very needed. ukraine@vectorgeo.com. It’s just that easy. Okay. I mean, I see a lot of great folks in the comments. Of course, big, thanks to Catherine Chan and Amanda production team helping to make it happen. Good morning to you. Good afternoon to you, Catherine. Great to see ya, Mike ther good morning from beautiful Telluride, Colorado.

Greg White (05:11):

Always beautiful. Yes. Always beautiful.

Scott Luton (05:14):

Mike. What’s the snow report, uh, out there in Telluride. Huh?

Greg White (05:18):

Let’s see they, yeah, they might be completely without this time of year. I mean it’s possible,

Scott Luton (05:23):

Right? Well regardless, Mike, great to have you here via LinkedIn. I’m look looking forward to your comments on what we hear from Mike Griswold and your get your questions in. Do y’all have a question you wanna pose to him? Shelly Phillips right around the corner in golden Colorado, Shelly have enjoyed your, uh, participation in our live streams, uh, as via LinkedIn. So great to see you. Hey Daniel hark one of our favorites. It’s been a little while. Greetings from Boston. Everyone looking forward to some supply chain, knowledge Daniel you’re in the right place. My friend Greg

Greg White (05:55):

Initially today.

Scott Luton (05:56):

That’s right. Let’s see here. We’ve cornered the market on supply chain knowledge, at least for the Latin next hour. <laugh> my dear friend. Larry Grant. Good morning from Noonan, Georgia V LinkedIn. Larry is one of those folks that specializes in GSD getting stuff done. I saw to there. So great to see you, Larry, and uh, really admire your approach to in this case, helping folks find the talent they need Victor Garcia via LinkedIn from Tijuana,

Greg White (06:26):

1. Yeah. Tijuana. That’s right.

Scott Luton (06:29):

So Victor, great to have you here today. Romi tuned in from LinkedIn, from Ottawa ever been to Ottawa, Greg.

Greg White (06:37):

Yep. Yeah. I’m trying to think of our, you know, we’re gonna talk about retail supply chain today. I’ve worked with a couple retailers up there.

Scott Luton (06:46):

Okay.

Greg White (06:46):

I, I was up there quite a bit. Um, so I’ve been to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal of course, Mon and Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which is probably still covered in snow.

Scott Luton (07:01):

Now. Goodness gracious. You speak Spanish, you speak Latin and now you’re breaking out the Canadian omic. Gregg. Come on, man.

Greg White (07:10):

Yeah,

Scott Luton (07:11):

We gotta, we gotta learn about all those adventures, uh, but great to have you Romi, uh, via LinkedIn, a gene pledger, dear friend from north Alabama. Great to see you here today via LinkedIn, as always looking forward to your, your questions and insights on our, what

Greg White (07:25):

Did that say yesterday? Tropical, Alabama or something like that? Equatorial.

Scott Luton (07:30):

Equatorial.

Greg White (07:30):

Equatorial, Alabama.

Scott Luton (07:31):

Yes. Oh, you’re making an impact. Jean making an impact. Yeah. Patrick Kelly host of the produce podcast with a see today, Patrick, it’s been a long time. Hope you’re doing well. Yeah. And love the content coming out of your channels. Brenda Allen, this

Greg White (07:47):

Is his buddy’s name who had the family citrus business.

Scott Luton (07:52):

You know, that

Greg White (07:52):

Was a great story.

Scott Luton (07:53):

That was a great story. Patrick, you gotta let us know. Yeah. Me and Greg and you, and one of your friends jumped on a podcast probably a couple summers ago. So let us know about that. Brenda Allen is back. She says she loves Telluride. I was there in the fall of the year and experienced rain and snow all in one day. But the scenery was breathtaking. It is nice. Nice, nice. Well, good morning to everybody. Great to have y’all here. Good afternoon. Good evening. Based on where you are. I’ll tell you you’re and by the way, that was Michael Chavez. Thank you, Patrick.

Greg White (08:23):

There he is. Yes, that’s right.

Scott Luton (08:25):

That’s such a great story. All right. So you’re in the right place at the right time with the right guests. Uh, we want to hear from you. We wanna get your questions, all questions about Mike, his journey, the supply chain industry, you name it. Y’all get him, get him in and we’re gonna try to pose those to him as we work through the next hour. So with no further a duke though, Greg, I wanna welcome in the one only Mike Griswold, vice president analyst with Gartner. Hey Mike, how you doing?

Greg White (08:53):

Sorry, Mike. I didn’t do the second part.

Mike Griswold (08:55):

<laugh> no, that’s alright. I, I, I was waiting for some, maybe Elvis walk on music, but that’s alright. Yeah.

Greg White (09:01):

Yeah. Sorry.

Mike Griswold (09:02):

Given the previous everyone great to be here. Great. To have a chance to chat with everyone,

Scott Luton (09:06):

Mike, as, as a always a pleasure, uh, love our monthly check-ins with you as is our audience. One of our longest running series and a great to have here. So Greg and Mike, before we get into some of the questions and folks, again, as you have questions you wanna pose about industry, especially retail, cloud chain, get those in. We’re gonna pose those to Mike over the next 50 minutes or so, but the heavy, hidden questions first it’s national fried chicken day folks, national fried chicken day enough set. Yeah. So Mike and Greg, and we’ll start with Mike, where have you had the best fried chicken experience in your life?

Mike Griswold (09:45):

So when I was a kid, I grew up in a small town in Western New York and, and my dad was a teacher forever. And one of his teaching friends had a chicken barbecue business in the summer mm-hmm <affirmative>. So as one of my summer jobs, I would work with him. So he had a pickup truck and a trailer and haul all the stuff to wherever we were doing, the chicken barbecue, set it up, do all the cooking. That’s probably where I’ve had my best barbecue chicken is, is in an outfit like that. Partly because, you know, you don’t get to eat until everyone else eats and you don’t get to eat really until all the work is done. So you’ve worked up quite an appetite, but that, that probably would be my best barbecue chicken. When, when I, when my wife and I go out or we go out with the kids, usually I’m not a chicken person. So I don’t usually look for ch but, but that, when you were talking earlier about, you know, barbecue day chicken fried chicken day, that’s probably been my best.

Scott Luton (10:40):

Okay. All right. That all sounds delicious. And sounds like a bunch of work, Greg. I’m coming to you next, but before I do good, good afternoon, Daniel from Brazil. Great to have you here via LinkedIn. Harve is tuned in, he says, good evening, Mike from the UAE. Great to have you here, Parvez. All right. So Greg, we’re talking national fried chicken day. What’s your favorite?

Greg White (11:02):

Well, you know, as you know, from my good friend, Mike Mills, Scott, that I am a, I’m a fried chicken connoisseur. So I would have to say it all started with my great grandmother’s fried chicken in a cast iron skillet with real grease, not even, uh, what’s that manufactured grease. I mean, it was real,

Scott Luton (11:24):

Um, LAR yeah,

Greg White (11:25):

<laugh> CRICO CRICO. Yeah. With real large.

Scott Luton (11:28):

And just let down Loretta Lynn and all of CRICO commercials. If you remember ’em anyway, go ahead.

Greg White (11:33):

And that was always fantastic. And you know, a lot of family arounds that kind of probably started my love for it, but actually probably the best fried chicken I’ve ever had was in China, which is a thing there. Right. Okay. They love to fry, especially the wings and whatnot, but man, fantastic. China and relatively locally, there’s this small chain called champions, fried chicken, chicken in a 40 is kind of their tradition like, okay. And there’s one in Chattanooga. That’s really good. And one in Athens, Georgia, that’s very good. Okay. So every time I go visit my daughters in college, we go to champions, I eat fried chicken. They’re both vegetarians. So they bake, they eat potato salad, right? <laugh>

Scott Luton (12:19):

They get the, uh, potato salad in the 40 and you get the fried chicken, they

Greg White (12:22):

Get a salad salad in the 40, instead of a chicken in a 40,

Scott Luton (12:26):

Well, gosh, y’all both paint a delicious picture. I would just add Hatty bees, which is a bit, I guess you call that a chain now, but still really good started in Nashville. Of course, Prince’s chicken in Nashville as well. But Justine’s kitchen in Charleston. South Carolina was around for a long time. Unfortunately I believe the pandemic was the final. They, they shut down a couple years ago and I think the, the front end of the pandemic kind of made that decision for him, but wonderful, wonderful homemade fried chicken and, and other food. So, okay. Every day, every, everything has its own national day who would’ve THK. So

Greg White (12:59):

You guys just take it from here. I’m just gonna go get some lunch.

Scott Luton (13:02):

Right, right. Um, so we’re gonna ask Mike one common here, Korean fried chicken and soul is amazing. That’s an interesting thought

Greg White (13:11):

Spin on. I mean, it’s super crispy. Yeah.

Scott Luton (13:15):

And Mahima great to see you via LinkedIn, let us know where you’re tuning from Brit to have you here today. Okay. So I know one of the things Mike, cause we get started and get past fried chicken, which I think had all of us standing and, and maybe, uh, drooling a bit. I think one of the things that, that, uh, we don’t talk about enough, uh, when it comes to Mike Griswold. Cause we, we focus so much on your analysis and, and the, the research work you do and, uh, everything you’re doing at Gartner, but man, your background is pretty fascinating. Some folks may not know your previous industry experience in the grocery business with Albertsons and Shaw supermarkets. So I wanna start there and Daniel, I’ll see your first question. We’ll get to that next. I promise. But what’s one thing Mike, that might surprise our listeners about the, the grocery business sector.

Mike Griswold (13:59):

Well, I think it’s interesting because when, and I think Greg will, will probably concur with this. If you think about the grocery industry five to 10 years ago, you know, I, I think we would’ve politely put them as kind of laggards when it comes to technology adoption and even, you know, process type of adoption change management was always a, a big focus. You know, when you’re talking with supermarket retailers, if I fast forward today, while, while I wouldn’t necessarily call the supermarket industry, you know, leaders, I, I definitely have seen a shift in, in how they’re approaching and adopting technology, especially in areas like e-commerce. So if you think about where we were pre pandemic and you think about how we’ve come out of the pandemic, the food industry has actually done a really good job of improving that buy online, collect in store experience that buy online curbside all of those things where you don’t really wanna go in the store.

Mike Griswold (15:05):

They’ve actually done a really good job of that. And if you think about the other area, I would say they’ve done really well. We may not like it or appreciate it is what they’ve done with their data relative to direct marketing. Yep. And they’ve come a long way in recognizing what they’ve had in terms of an untapped potential of all of this con I mean, just think about how much data a supermarket retailer has about all of us, right. And how much time we spend there, what’s in our baskets. And I think, you know, when I think of people like Saintsbury early on and what they did with dun Hume and the ability to understand your basket and then send you stuff to entice other purchases based on what you bought, not that long thing you get at the checkout, which is the coupons for things you’re never gonna buy.

Mike Griswold (15:55):

Right. So I think in some ways over the last five to 10 years, the, the grocery industry has really accelerated how they think about and how they use technology in ways that if you’d have asked me 10 years ago, I would’ve said no way. Right. Just because of, of the slow rate at which they were adopting technology and even, you know, things like, um, some of the processes like sales and operations execution, that’s starting to get more traction, um, in the food space. So they’ve undergone, in my opinion, the biggest transformation of any segment of retail in terms of where they were to where they are today in terms of things of around technology. Mm.

Scott Luton (16:35):

So Greg, I’m gonna come to you next for a quick comment, but really quick before I do at least once a week, I see someone on my social feed. A lot of times it’s Facebook that complains about self checkout lanes and, and has a, there’s a variety of, um, in the grocery business. And there’s a variety of conspiracy theories. Why around why that happens. But here recently after I saw comment number 1,279, that the complaint <laugh>, I, I looked into research and kind of the market trends. It is now the majority of shoppers actually prefer to get in, not talk to anybody, check their stuff out and get out it’s it’s, it’s, that’s what folks are demanding, but, uh, that’s, that’s where I lie. Rarely do I interact, uh, with anyone at the grocery store, but Greg comment on that or comment on, on kind of Mike’s observations about the, the grocery business.

Greg White (17:22):

So I may have been the very first complainer. I used to go to the store and say, do I get a discount because I’m saving you on labor by, by doing the labor myself.

Scott Luton (17:31):

Right. Right.

Greg White (17:33):

Um, but, and I think, and I, I am only allowed to buy a few things at the grocery store because otherwise it takes me an hour to go through the store. It, it actually has saved them some labor for the store manager because my wife used to call in, she knew the store manager at our local Kroger. So, well, she would call in and say, I’m sending my husband in, this is what he’s looking for. And wow, the manager would have somebody go collect the stuff. It was only a handful of things, but go collect stuff and bring it to the customer service desk. Because I was so pathetic. He walked through the store. One time I was there for like 45 minutes to find, I don’t know, whatever three items. So I love it when it’s only a few items. If it’s full basket, you still it’s still worth getting the help from an actual human being agreed.

Greg White (18:22):

But as the larger picture of grocery Mike, I can’t help. But think about the fact that virtually everywhere else in the world, grocery stores have perpetual inventory, meaning they know what they have on hand and they have a system to manage to that. And here’s a little history lesson for you because grocery stores evolve from general stores who used to have hawkers have, uh, people who came around and, and managed the inventory for a store, right? Our grocery business grew up a lot differently and it has really set them back. The, that Mike managed in the days when that was really prevalent and was able to do the good things that he did for Albertsons is truly impressive because they often don’t know what they have or didn’t back then. And I think that’s still the case with some of the lines where some of the big brands they come in, they send someone in, they scan the product, they then send the driver in the next day to deliver it, or, you know, on their regular route. So Coca-Cola wonder bread, whatever you name it. There’s all kinds of products where the grocery store doesn’t know, or really doesn’t care, right. What they have on the shelf, because they’ve sold that shelf space, right. Such that it’s almost a tiny little store in inside their store to that vendor. Mm. I don’t know if everybody in the states really knows that

Scott Luton (19:50):

They probably, if they do, they probably don’t appreciate it as much as what you just laid out. We’ve got a couple questions. I wanna shift gears. And Greg, I wanna circle back to the auto parts industry in a minute. I’m post same question to you. But first off, we’ve got a lot of self checkout lane lovers between Amanda and Catherine and myself, gene pledger. When you pay with your app and not even stand in line I’m with you. Oh, we’ve got a, a Nashville, uh, chicken recommendation from Brenda with checkout. Manels a kidding aside. Daniel hark has got a very serious topic and piece of legislation. Of course, the Uighur force labor prevention act is what he’s referring to here. And I wanna get Mike and Greg’s, uh, take here. So Daniel says curious, Mike stalls on the potential impact of the new us regulation. UFL PA on China dependent supply chain. So Mike, uh, why don’t share your thoughts here?

Mike Griswold (20:39):

Yeah. I, I think it’s gonna have a huge impact primarily because I don’t know that that us companies, uh, and companies that are, are sourcing from outside the United States have as much visibility. And I know Greg, you and I have talked about this at, at length. I don’t know that they have enough visibility deeper into their ecosystem as they’re going to need to have. Right. So it’s one thing to know that this product is made in a certain location, in a certain geography. It’s another thing to know exactly how that product is made and assembled in who’s doing it. Part of the challenge though, in fairness to organizations, is in order to, to get that full appreciation, you almost have to go there, right? You almost have to have someone go through and, and tour the facility, tour the region and be able to see with their, with their own eyes, kind of how this stuff happens.

Mike Griswold (21:43):

Now we know that there can be a couple of challenges with that one. Someone may just not give you access that, you know, thanks. But no, thanks. You’re not coming, which in its own, right. Should send up some red flags around. Maybe we should be thinking about alternative sourcing, but the other element is unless you can do this unannounced. And as a surprise, right. When I was in the stores before I was in grocery, I was in a department store. I ran the operations in a store. And the biggest joke was we always would get like a week’s notice before a regional vice president was coming or even the president was gonna tour. Right. You had like a week’s notice. So, and no one cared what your labor budget was the week before. Right. So yeah, it it’s the same thing, right? If you give people enough notice they can, they can, you know, dust things under the carpet, dust things under the furniture, right before you get there.

Mike Griswold (22:40):

And, and in some of the locations where this stuff is produced, you would never, you never able to get a surprise visit. Cuz if you showed up unannounced, you may be arrested and no one may ever see. Right. Right, right. So right. Um, there there’s challenges with that. So I think it’s a great question. And I think I would lump it under, you know, people are just gonna need to figure out how do they get more visibility and how do they get deeper visibility into their some that’s gonna be the challenge. And I think some of it is some, some organizations probably don’t wanna know other organizations want to know, and it’s gonna be difficult to find that out. But it’s a great question. And I do think it’s gonna have a pretty big impact.

Scott Luton (23:22):

Agreed. Hey really quick, Greg, I’ll get your take here on a great question from Daniel, but that’s such a great point. Mike makes it’s like, uh, your ISO certification, the manufacturing space, you know, when your examiner is coming. So Mike, oftentimes, so Mike, to your point, you know, it, it, it’s not a, uh, it’s not a pop in surprise inspection. So, but uh, Greg, your take on the U F L PA

Greg White (23:44):

I, the foundational principle of it guilty until proven innocent and I’m and proven innocent beyond the slightest doubt. Right? And I think that this is the only way that we, we can force bad actors to share enough to know today, to Mike’s point, if we can’t verify they’re guilty, we assume, or use cognitive dissonance to <laugh> right. To consider them innocent. We need to invert that curve. And we need to assume guilt until they’re proven innocent. Think of it this way. If you couldn’t verify that any other supply chain partner was reliable, right. Had an on time in full record or things like that, you would assume they couldn’t get the job done. If you can’t confirm that someone is doing good, you have to assume that they’re not. Hmm. And, and I think that, that this principle, you know, as was evidenced in kind of a test case with CBP, with the customs and border patrol, where they just rejected containers that came from gen J unless they could, uh, um, you know, unless they could verify that they were not unethical unethically sourced.

Greg White (25:03):

Um, I think this forces people out of the shadows and I, I actually like it, it is gonna be challenging and it’s gonna be incredibly disruptive up to this point, because again, to Mike’s point, most companies prefer to kind of sweep it under the rug or not dig that deep, or couldn’t dig that deep. And now they have no choice and it’s not just U F LPA. It’s also the S E C. If you’re a public company, you have to prove your sustainability FINRA, the financial industry rating association, whatever the heck, the, a stands for that. Now they have three stages of ESG compliance that they require. And, and it, you know, it’s a service to, to shareholders to alleviate risk from these, these kinds of threats. So it’s, it’s gonna be tough. And, and yet a lot of these companies could have seen it coming, but in classic Mike, in classic company, business, retail style, whatever you wanna say, uh, we wait until it’s mandated or a crisis right before we do anything.

Scott Luton (26:05):

Wait until you’re forced to walk to plank. Um, Greg and Mike, good stuff there. And Daniel again, great question to lead off and to all of our listeners out there, we’ve got the next 30 minutes or so with Mike is ask Mike anything. So Daniel set the bar pretty high, but feel free, whatever y’all are curious about to get, Mike’s take, we’d love for y’all to, to, uh, weigh in Dr. Ronda with us. Uh, she’s referring to that delicious fried chicken discussion we had on the front end. So appreciate you. Uh, Marlowe is tuned in from Dallas, uh, via LinkedIn. Great to see you Marlowe Helene is back with us Helene. Great to see you via LinkedIn, let us know where you’re tuned in from. I think that CP is probably a flag that was not converted over for the comment, but let us know we were tuning it from Helene.

Greg White (26:48):

I see the flag. That’s interesting. You don’t see it.

Scott Luton (26:50):

I don’t see it. What, what country?

Greg White (26:53):

I didn’t. I’m sorry. I didn’t look that close. Uh, it’s red, white and blue, but it’s blue, white and red, so,

Scott Luton (27:00):

Ah, gotcha. Okay.

Greg White (27:01):

Eastern Europe somewhere, possibly Russia. Anyway. Hey, real quick notes. Yeah. For Dr. Rhonda, if Mrs. White’s golden rule cafe still exists. Fantastic fried chicken there. Ah, unquestionably the best in, in Phoenix, I would say the best in the Southwest without it doubt. Okay.

Scott Luton (27:20):

So that’s a great tip. And by the way, the production team is confirming it. France. Helene is from oh, France. Oh, sorry. It’s great to see you here. Helene.

Greg White (27:28):

It’s hard to see that flag. It’s very small.

Scott Luton (27:31):

So Mike, our next question.

Mike Griswold (27:32):

So Greg, there’s this pretty cool invention. You may have heard of them called glasses.

Greg White (27:38):

I’m on a very small monitor here, but you’re right.

Mike Griswold (27:41):

Okay.

Greg White (27:42):

Just,

Mike Griswold (27:42):

Just try to, you know, give you a little help there, Greg.

Scott Luton (27:45):

Oh, thank you. I love it. I love it. And by the way, thanks buddy. <laugh> Dr. Rhonda says, Hey, wait until you’re forced to walk the plank Scott. Oh my gosh. I do say that often as well to my clients when we’re making some behavioral changes that appear and feel painful in the moment. Hey yeah. Dr. RH kindred spirits. Uh, that does not surprise me. Um, okay. So Mike, next question comes in. It’s about the Gartner supply chain top 25. Sure. And so as the name suggests, and as we’ve covered here, plenty of times before with you, the top 25 comes out every year, the rankings were just released roughly a month or so ago, and it ranks some of the top performing supply chains, including the master’s category, which are companies that constantly, you know, they’ve just consistently performed and they’re created, you know, they’ve, uh, got their own category. But the question here is for the companies that ranked, you know, 26th, 27th, right there on the cusp, what do you see and how can those companies break into that pristine pyramid? The top 25 next year?

Mike Griswold (28:48):

Yeah, there, there’s a couple ways, Greg, if, you know, if people, you know, if you look at the methodology right there, there’s the financial component. And then there’s the, the qualitative community perspective, the analyst in the, in the peer vote. And we have the, the ESG component, the, the, the two elements that I think organizations, you know, that are in that say 26 to 30, 35 range things that can influence the most, really come down to two things, right? The, it one is the ESG component. So it’s based on the accumulation of up to 10 points. You know, if, if an organization, you know, isn’t at 10, that that’s an opportunity cuz each point of ESG is worth 0.2, right to the composite score. So if you were an eight and you went to 10, that’s nearly half a point to your composite score right out of the gate.

Mike Griswold (29:41):

And when you’re looking at, you know, 26 to 25 was about one, 100th of a point, wow, that’s the difference between 26 and 25. And, and even if you go to 30, my guess is that difference is less than a single point. So, so looking at the ESG methodology, seeing if there’s opportunities where you’re not getting points, my message though, to companies, particularly on the ESG component is you should not be doing ESG stuff just to chase Gartner points. You should be doing ESG stuff because it’s the right thing to do. So, right. You know, we have, you know, ecosphere produces an ethical company list. Bloomberg produces gender equality, a a gender equality index. Those are, those are worthwhile things that people should consider. But you know, if, if you are already doing something in a different gender equality index, I, I, I’m not here to tell you do Bloomberg, just so you get two points, right.

Mike Griswold (30:40):

But you should look across how we evaluate ESG. And if there are things that you’re not participating in that make sense for you, you should look at that. But the other element is, and where I think the strength of the top 25 comes from is, you know, from its inception, we wanted to reward and recognize companies that shared their story. People that talk about the things that they’re doing in the supply chain that will make the supply chain of everyone better. Right. And again, we’re not saying, you know, give away if we’re talking about chicken, don’t give away the secret sauce. What we are saying though, is there’s a lot of things that, that companies do that are very transferable and not proprietary. So get your name out there. Talk in, you know, social media, you know, be involved in Gartner events and other events, right?

Mike Griswold (31:30):

Not just ours where you can because it’s that peer voting that that really can make a difference. And again, not to, not to make people’s eyes glaze over, but in the peer methodology, right? If, if someone votes for you in the number one spot, that’s 25 points. If you get two people that didn’t vote for you before that are now more aware of you. And let’s just say, cuz I need simple math, right? They both put you at number one, that’s 50 points, right. To the peer voting. So it is. And if you look at companies in the top 25, you know, they, they all do a really good job of talking about their supply chain, whether that’s, you know, you know, you know, frequent updates on LinkedIn, frequent updates on social media, putting out their own white papers, you know, there is to some degree an obligation, if you wanna be in the top 25 to share your stories. So those, um, Scott would be two things, think about where you are from an ESG perspective and are you, and this is where I’ll use the word aggressively in a, in a positive way. Are you aggressively telling your supply chain stories to the community? Mm.

Scott Luton (32:39):

All right. So Greg, we’ve got a follow up question from Mike in just a second from Dr. Kendra C Taylor. Great to see you, uh, Dr. Taylor, but Greg, I’ll get you a quick follow up based on what you heard there from Mike.

Greg White (32:50):

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think they oughta have a playin game. It sounds like Mike, there are a lot of teams on the bubble

Greg White (32:56):

If you think of it right. In NCAA tournament standards. Um, but I think that it, that it is that close is, is really fascinating. Couldn’t help, but think that that’s probably right, right. 25 to 30 is probably still less than a point separated, but I, I, I like the, whatever you want to call it, the caution, the warning, the notification don’t chase points do good. Right. And, and that will be evident. Yep. Um, and especially now with the topic we just discussed, where in there isn’t place to hide in supply chain or in ESG now, um, you will most definitely not want to be greenwashing. You know, the, yes, there greenwashing is tantamount in the ESG and the financial world to crime these days. So it it’s, um, important to be genuine, to have real plans. The requirements of the S E C now not only are that you have plans.

Greg White (34:01):

And again, this is only for public companies, but if you work with a public company, you’re gonna have to be able to do the same thing. Anyway, it’s not only to have plans to be carbon neutral or, or have gender racial equality or, you know, eliminate unfair trade practices, conflict minerals and, and human rights violations from your supply chain. But it’s also to be able to verify that you’re doing it, how effective that’s been and now go outside your own four walls to those 6, 7, 8, 9 tiers of suppliers around the world and assure that they’re doing it as well. So it’s gotta be a legitimate attempt because in this day and age of transparency, it’s too dangerous to do it any other way. And it’s not really sustainable,

Scott Luton (34:49):

Right.

Mike Griswold (34:50):

Outcomes,

Greg White (34:52):

Definition of the word is not sustainable.

Mike Griswold (34:55):

Unlike college basketball, we will not be expanding the field. It, it will stay at top

Greg White (35:00):

20. OK. So it won’t go to 120 18. No,

Mike Griswold (35:04):

Absolutely not

Scott Luton (35:06):

Comes outcomes, outcomes. And then, uh, and I love your comment there, Greg, about outside of your, your four walls, you upstream and downstream of your supply chain is such an important point. Um, alright. So we’ve got another great question here from a former guest, which we really enjoyed, uh, a chat when Jenny fr was with us back a few months ago, and this is, uh, Dr. Kendra C Taylor, who does beyond her consulting business. She does a lot of great volunteer work with the informs group. Right. She says, got a question for Mike, are you seeing companies using tech like blockchain or artificial intelligence to improve in the area of ESG?

Mike Griswold (35:42):

Yeah, for sure. Um, I, I think, you know, we, we’ve all, I think made somewhat tongue and cheek comments around blockchain is kind of a problem running around trying to find a solution, uh, or a solution trying to run around and find a problem. So I think this is an area where we’re starting to see blockchain, uh, blockchain grab some traction as in the ESG space from a traceability perspective, uh, to some of Greg’s earlier comments in authenticity, you know, we we’re seeing it in the drug environment to make sure drugs aren’t counterfeit. We’ve seen it in some of the luxury good areas to ensure good goods are not counterfeited. Um, so we’re definitely seeing blockchains start to emerge in the ESG space. We’re also seeing, you know, other uses of technology, you know, geos sat location. So, you know, there’s a lot of work being done by companies that rely on, on Palm oil to be able to use satellite image, to, to check on, on forestation and deforestation and make decisions around that.

Mike Griswold (36:44):

Yeah. We’re also seeing if I expand this a little bit outside of sustainability, we’ve got some of the high tech companies using machine learning and AI for people with disabilities. So one of the high tech companies in our top 25 has developed technology that allows people with site impairment to be able to do quality control testing on equipment, using things like audio signals and things like that. So, you know, we’re definitely seeing technology be deployed not only in the traditional areas we see around the supply chain plan source make deliver just as a, as some examples, but we’re also seeing it definitely in the ESG space for sure.

Scott Luton (37:29):

Greg, anything to add?

Greg White (37:31):

No, I have, I actually, you’ve made me think of several questions, Mike, you know, we’re talking about what arguably, and I don’t mean this in a bad way, arguably a trendy topic. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, but in as much as we’re talking about these things that are highly impactful to companies today, I wonder because you talk to companies and their solution prior providers all the time. Is there anything that jumps out at you? I mean, not, not limited to ESG and maybe not even limited to supply chain, but I think we all understand that the economy is shifting globally. Right. And that things are changing from the, you know, the hard run that we’ve been on for 13 years to what will arguably be a different economic environment for at least a few months, possibly a few years. Is there anything you’re seeing relevant or in response to that shift that really just jumps out at you as you talk to some of these retailers?

Mike Griswold (38:28):

Yeah, I, I think, and it’s not just a, a retail, um, unique phenomenon. I think we, we are, we had a period of time when, and, and I like the way you, you phrased it, Greg, and I’ll try to keep it at that same kind of adult level. Right. We had, we had an things were good and, and the ESG was kind of a natural fill in when, when things are going well, right. When, when you’re, when your business is doing really well, it’s a lot easier to think about what are the things I wanna do from an ESG perspective. If we keep this more on the, on the E than necessarily the ESS and the G. Now, what will be interesting to see is as we now go into a different economic reality for however long it lasts, we’re now back to the question to your point around, you know, are we still fundamentally committed to doing good kind of, regardless of the cost, or are we gonna revert kind of pre sustainability momentum where it was seen as an additional cost?

Mike Griswold (39:40):

It didn’t necessarily was not perceived as an avenue to create value. What we’ve seen is you can be sustainable and make money at the same time. We have seen that, right. We’ve seen that for the last several years. Yeah. So my observation will be, or I guess my, my advice to organizations is you need to find a way to keep doing that. That when, when times are tough, you do not want to shut down any momentum view made around ESG if for no other reason, great to your earlier comment, people, people now have that expectation, whether frankly you make money or not, that is the expectation expectation is you will consider how to do good for the planet and how to do good for people. And if, and if people make some course corrections now because of the economy, I, I believe they will pay a price for that in, from, from a customer, um, perspective. <affirmative>

Scott Luton (40:45):

Okay. Uh, you know, agree. We mentioned of course, artificial intelligence, one of the, uh, tools that Dr. Taylor mentioned there, and Greg we’ve touched about this, we’ve touched on this a number of times, sometimes the tools themselves need to be reinvented so that we don’t have the hard coding, the hard programming, the, uh, assumptions baked into the artificial intelligence. Uh, Greg, you wanna speak to that for a second? You’re much more the technologist than I am <laugh>

Greg White (41:13):

Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that we have to recognize is that there are, there are legitimate business cases for blockchain have been for a long time. It’s more the adoption, speaking of baked in it’s more the recognition and the adoption that have been a hurdle than the technology of blockchain or AI themselves. Right. We continue to have AI do a better job of statistical forecasting for instance, which is a misapplication of, of the technology and blockchain. Um, we’ve used to monitor manual processes that are easily, easily usurped by just failing to click the button on the scanner or whatever. Right, right. So there, there are lots of ways we need to adopt this. But, um, and, and I think one of the things you’re alluding to Scott is kind of the bias that can be built into intelligence. If, uh, for instance, we’ve, we’ve talked about this a lot.

Greg White (42:12):

If you only show an artificial or computer vision tool, artificial intelligence, or computer vision tool men’s shoes, then when you show it a woman’s shoe, it will not recognize that as a shoe, right? So there’s, there’s that possibility. Um, and there are all kinds of unintentional biases that, that can be built into those things. And, and there are lots of, and, and have been for years, by the way, I don’t think the world knows this all kinds of synthetic right. Testing and training that can be done. So that human bias is, is, uh, extracted from that. But the limitation is not the technology. The limitation is not the training of the technology. The limitation is the human’s adaptation adoption, right. And, and acceptance, oh, three A’s. That was pretty good <laugh> of, of the technology or better yet to the point, both of you have made to the outcomes that the technology can enable. And we have to be focused on those outcomes. First that like Mike said, don’t make the products, a hammer looking for a nail, find the nails, and then go find how, how, and if, how that hammer can apply.

Scott Luton (43:21):

Love that love that, uh, Dr. Ronda says ethical practices versus profit choice matter and impact us all eventually best to think about longevity and think about the implications. Nice

Greg White (43:35):

To say, good luck with that. I’ll tell you, I mean, the, the greatest economic principle ever is enlightened self interest, right? Let me repeat that enlightened self interest companies will never not be self-interested. They will never not be profit focused. What we have to do to Mike’s point is we have to illuminate how ESG, how doing the right thing leads to profit. And, you know, my opinion on that topic is that again, there’s no place to hide. Supply chain is in the forefront. Thanks to the great toilet paper shortage of 2020 ESG is in the forefront, thanks to enumerable offenses by companies, large, small, you know, of every manner around the world. Right, right. Anywhere from diamonds, the greatest offenders on the planet to sports clothing, right? Mm. Which is heavily produced in gin, Jong province and others, but there’s no place to hide now. And I think what people have to recognize is that supply chain effectiveness and ESG effectiveness doing the right thing, hit the top line as much as the bottom line, because someone could choose and more people will choose not to do business with companies that, that refuse to acknowledge unethical in their business.

Scott Luton (44:58):

So, Mike, I’m gonna give you the final word on this topic, and I’m gonna share a couple comments and we are getting close to the top or bottom of the hour, whatever the case is, Mike, uh, your final comments.

Mike Griswold (45:08):

Yeah. Concur with Greg. There, there is more and more research that says the ESG perspectives of an organization and a brand are rapidly climbing the consumer decision tree. I think we’re also seeing data that suggests there is actually starting to, to be a shift with more people actually voting with their wallets. Uh, I think we still have a gap, but I think what the, the point, I think people need to acknowledge is the number of people that are saying that’s important to them is going up. The number of people that are actually voting with their wallet is going up. There is still a gap between those two, but the gap is narrowing. And if the gap ever is eliminated, the companies that have been kinda lagging are gonna be in big trouble, big, big trouble. Yeah.

Scott Luton (45:59):

Very nice. Uh, and by the way, thank you, Andy. The top of the hour he says is the, the one o’clocks the two o’clocks at three o’clock

Greg White (46:07):

It’s when the big hand is on the 12th is the top.

Scott Luton (46:10):

Math is not my thing. Math is not my thing. So Hey, Kim winner, the one only Kim winners with that’s here today, Kim says, thanks for the discussion team. Good question, Greg, in regards to ESG and to your answer, Mike, a hundred percent, the clear message that we get as an international recruiter from candidates globally, is that an employer stance on ESG is an essential part of decision making. When candidates are looking at a new job, excellent Kim and safe travels, Kim winners, everywhere. I tell you what based in Dubai, but he is, if it’s a logistics or supply, uh, supply chain leadership conference, he is there in person level. Yeah. Okay. So let’s have a little fun. I got 1248. We’ve got Mike for a few more minutes here. It’s July or a much lighter note from what we’ve been talking about. I would like to, on sec, Kim says you guys are ranking above my other screen, the BBC commenting on the demise of the UK prime minister tonight, or Hey, <laugh>, we’ll keep on what’s the right past that for now.

Greg White (47:08):

Just remember you’re no longer in the colonies, Kim, that doesn’t even matter to you

Scott Luton (47:12):

Anymore. <laugh> Ronda says, Greg, great point switch to focus little to our more lived practices and self-interest yeah,

Greg White (47:21):

Rhonda, not that yours was not an outstanding point. It’s just, we have to acknowledge that, um, shared, uh, approach right. Of both profit and, and do the right thing. And I’ve just seen it too long. Companies will not change. They cannot, they should not. Right. They owe it to us, their shareholders and their customers to make money and be sustainable in that way.

Scott Luton (47:46):

So. All right. So forget what I said a minute ago, cause we’re not gonna take, we’re not gonna talk about vacation date. We just got an excellent question from Sheldon and I’m gonna pose this out there to you and Mike, we’re going back a little bit to, uh, the UFL PA discussion we had, um, um, towards the beginning of the show and Sheldon says this and great to have you, by the way, Sheldon, there is a shift taking place in the global power dynamics. We have seen bricks Brazil. I can’t remember what the acronym stands for. Brazil,

Greg White (48:12):

Russia, India and China.

Scott Luton (48:15):

Yes. Yes. Bricks. And LDCs reevaluating the relevance of certain relationships with regard self-interest will in Sheldon’s words, exclusionary us laws, such as U L P a aimed at improving visibility in supply chains end up hurting us companies more than helping them. Mike.

Mike Griswold (48:35):

Yeah. I, she, that, that’s a great question. And I think it is, I, I think UN well, I, I guess I’ll say unfortunately, I, I think the answer to that is yes, depending on your size, because I think, uh, from, in some instances, the supplier probably does have an opportunity with some people to say, Hey, you know, what, if you don’t want my stuff, someone else will, right. Or I don’t care if you want visibility. I’m not gonna share that with you. So I think based on an organization size, there may, they may run into some challenges where suppliers have more leverage than they do. And, you know, may just say, you know what, you’re, you’re now becoming more trouble than you’re worth, right? They’ find your go find your product someplace else. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I think what’s incumbent though, is it’s incumbent on the, the organizations with the larger market share to kind of keep an eye out for these other companies, like a big brother or a big sister, and say, you know what, I’m not gonna deal with you now.

Mike Griswold (49:41):

You may be able to get away with not selling stuff to, to, to Mike’s sporting goods store. But, you know, you cannot get away with not selling stuff. If I’m say, just I’ll use as an example, right. sport goods, right? And I think it’s these larger brand owners, it’s these larger retail organizations that are gonna have to make a stand. And then as a byproduct of that, I think some of these smaller companies, you know, can be protected if that’s the right word. But this goes back to, Greg’s kind of kind of self, you know, self enlightened self interest. This is where some of these larger companies have to put the industry and their, and their policies first ahead of, uh, may, may not necessarily profits, but they need to be keeping an eye out for everyone in their industry and in their sector. And it’s gonna take the large companies to do that.

Scott Luton (50:36):

Well, say, in my opinion, I’m coming to you next, but really quick. Our dear friend, Jenny F was with us here today. And Jenny adds that bricks, plural, as it were maybe Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. Huh?

Greg White (50:49):

Jenny, that’s a new addition. I did not know that. I didn’t even notice the S I never even,

Scott Luton (50:54):

Well, thank you Jenny, for being the, the wonderful ambassador that you are and look forward catching back up with you soon. Okay, Greg. Uh, so to, to Sheldon’s question is again, up hurting us companies more than helping them

Greg White (51:06):

Yes. In the short term, unquestionably, because they’re not ready for it. They’ve denied, you know, they’ve been in denial about this happening. So yes. And to Mike’s point. Yes. Certainly. I’ve, you know, I was thinking about this. I may have even, I wrote a commentary a week or so ago about this very topic and imagine some influencer out there who’s having whatever coffee cups painted with their face or whatever these YouTubers do. And they’re, you know, they’re being made in the wrong place. They’re gonna tell ’em to stuff. It just like Mike said. So, you know, the other thing we have to acknowledge is in, in large measure, we, the United States and other countries of the Western world, I guess you would say whatever, the first Western world we’re mandating our principles on these other countries that may not ha share the same principles or may not have the same capacity to live up to those principles.

Greg White (52:04):

I heard someone call it and I don’t agree, but I think this is a, a valid analysis. ESG is the new imperialism. It’s how we project our principles on them. Like, like the English projected the English language and, and the us had projected Christianity and other things on other countries, because that’s the way we see the world. And for those countries that don’t see the world there. And some of these are unbelievably bad actors, right? I mean, Brazil, I love Brazil. It’s beautiful country, but they’re one of the highest defenders in terms of destroying the rainforest. Indonesia, likewise, China, I don’t think we need to say more there <laugh> pick a violation and insert China. So we have to understand that this, this is gonna come to, we’re gonna come to loggerheads over this unquestionably. Right.

Scott Luton (52:59):

Well, you know, I’m, I’m so disappointed Greg, that you don’t tell us exactly how you really feel that your response is not. Of course, I’m kidding.

Greg White (53:05):

Well, I think we have to be realistic about it because politicians have politicians have the luxury of casting these things out there to gain votes, and then they disappear in eight years. Right, right, right.

Scott Luton (53:18):

And how they invent cover.

Greg White (53:19):

And they don’t have to pick up the pieces right. Or live, and they live above the way the rest of us live. So they don’t have to live with the shattered remains of the world when they caused these ridiculous things to happen.

Scott Luton (53:31):

Agreed. Okay. All right. I hate to leave the conversation there, but Mike, I know you have got a pressing, uh, commitment at the top of the hour. Let’s make sure folks know how to connect with Mike and Gartner so that you can tune in into this type of, of analysis and research. That really is very practical and valuable to business leaders. Uh, Mike, how can folks connect with you and, and Gartner?

Mike Griswold (53:54):

Um, sure. LinkedIn for me, Mike dot Griswold, gartner.com, gartner.com. If you’re looking to just understand more about what we do at Gartner, but love to hear from people love to talk about the supply chain and certainly these other little random things that we manage to talk about, uh, always enjoy the conversations.

Scott Luton (54:12):

I appreciate that Mike, and as always the good news, some of it is Mike is getting better and better at LinkedIn. So make sure you connect and reach out

Mike Griswold (54:19):

Better and better. Yes.

Greg White (54:21):

<laugh>. Yeah, that’s good.

Scott Luton (54:22):

It’s the step. It’s the it, it’s the, uh, relentless

Mike Griswold (54:25):

Pursuit baby steps. Yes. Baby steps. Steps.

Greg White (54:28):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (54:28):

Mike step. It’s

Greg White (54:29):

Funny how people kind of dive in and out of your feed, right? Yeah. I gotta guess I’m gonna have to go check you out, Mike.

Scott Luton (54:36):

Hey Mike Griswold with Gartner, always a pleasure. Really appreciate what you shared here over the last hour and looking forward to next month.

Mike Griswold (54:44):

Me too. Thanks everyone. Bye

Greg White (54:46):

Soon. Thanks Mike. Take care.

Scott Luton (54:48):

All right. Let’s see. Daniel gotta run, but great episode. Thanks for leading off with your question, Daniel. I appreciate your perspective and great question. Jenny free, gotta kick out of these YouTubers comment from Greg white. Uh, I did too, Jenny and thank you for your

Greg White (55:03):

Probably should said influencers. I mean, <laugh> not all, whatever, it doesn’t matter. Uh

Scott Luton (55:08):

That’s right. Shelly Phillips completely agrees with Greg and she always great big fan. Jenny is of Mike and of Greg. Uh, so good stuff there. Okay. Greg,

Greg White (55:19):

Mike, especially. I hope man. <laugh> seriously. I don’t, I don’t, I, I still am not certain that we all understand the presence of greatness that we’re all in. Whenever he’s on the show. I mean, been there done, it continues to do it hundreds. Thousands of companies get their guidance on supply chain from Mike Griswold, big ones. Agreed.

Scott Luton (55:41):

And thanks to our audience for, for kind of bearing with us. I think there was a fortnight tournament just down the block, uh, from Mike Mike’s home studio today. Oh, see,

Greg White (55:51):

He was

Scott Luton (55:51):

Pretty good.

Greg White (55:52):

He was pretty good on mine. Just cut a couple of times. Yeah.

Scott Luton (55:56):

Fantastic. Fantastic.

Greg White (55:57):

I think it’s the role of the dice, you know,

Scott Luton (55:59):

Role of the dice. Hey, Greg, always a pleasure to knock out this stuff with you. Always a pleasure to have Mike here. Cause I agree. He really, he he’s the type of, uh, you know, analysts and researchers and, and um, thought leaders, all those terms much like some of the comments we’re seeing are thrown around, you know, regularly these days. But man, he is the real deal, real deal of holy field and always a pleasure to have him here for his monthly appearance with supply chain out. Agree now with all that, I wanna circle back to this opportunity we’ve got with folks, Hey, check out this July 12th, working session, leveraging logistics for Ukraine, love for you to get involved and, and donate or help facilitate if you can, but like Greg said earlier, just show up. There’s no need, there’s no obligation. There won’t be any arm twisting.

Scott Luton (56:47):

Right. But y’all check that out. The link is in the comments from earlier in July 12th at 11:00 AM Eastern time. Uh, love what, uh, I love the outcomes, you know, as, as you and Mike and we all talked about so important, you know, feeling good, feeling good gestures, it’s not good enough. It’s what are you doing? What are the outcomes? You know, what are the results? And to have almost 10 containers now on their way to folks, Chuck full of things, they, they need as coming from their voice. You know, no assumptions. I mean, part of these working sessions are to, are to tune into the folks there in Ukraine and pulling elsewhere and let them tell us what their specific needs are. So I love that type of, uh, really focused effort. Okay, Greg, before I sign off here, I wanna get your final challenge or final comment, whether it’s something you or Mike shared or someone from all the comments, but what’s your final thought before I sign off here today,

Greg White (57:42):

The world is watching. I think it’s important for us to know that as supply chain professionals, we, we begged for this <laugh> right. We begged for this recognition for this seat at the table for the command and control that supply chain should long have had. We’ve begged for it to be recognized as something greater than brute force and cost savings. And we got it and we got it in spades and we’ve had it now for over two years and we need to make sure that we are living up to that challenge, that we are transparent. We are forthright, we are ethical, we are effective, and that we are ready to change as the market changes because laggard, a great word that might use today is arguably one of the core tenants of supply chain. We don’t move very fast. We don’t innovate very rapidly and we, we need to start changing our perspective to do that. We need to take some risks to alleviate risks in the supply chain.

Scott Luton (58:44):

All right, that’s the final word here today? Uh, big thanks. Our production team, Chantel Catherine, Amanda, uh, hope wherever clay is today is hitting that little white ball straight and far. Uh, big thanks to Greg. Of course, Mike Griswold for joining us big. Thanks all the folks that that showed up in the comments. Great questions and comments. That’s one of always one of my favorite parts. Uh, anyway, on that note, uh, Scott Luton signing off with my dear friend, Greg white here for now challenging you man. This last hour is a, is a, uh, gives you all the reasons and then some to do good to give forward and to be the change that’s needed. And on that note, we see next time, right back here at supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (59:29):

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