Editor (00:01):
What’s up, guys? Editor for Greg White here, and I am filling in this week. Basically, Greg, he’s on the road. He’s traveling and he’s getting a lot of things ready for future episodes. So, I’m just kind of filling in just to kind of let you guys know that this episode, we’re picking up where we left off last week with Greg’s guest, Sena Zorlu, founder and investor. And they are going to be talking more about decoding the messages between founders and investors. And, yeah, hope you enjoy.
Greg White (00:53):
I think a lot of people, a lot of founders, think of their problem as if it’s as complex as getting to space and solving navigation problems in space. One of the companies that I’m talking to, right? But it’s not all that difficult. But those are the ones that make headlines and it sort of sets the tone for, “Oh, that’s what it takes to be a tech entrepreneur or a unicorn”, which somebody who had never used that word.
Sena Zorlu (01:30):
But you are absolutely right. Like, a lot of startups today, they don’t have technology. They may have some codes, but agricultural companies have code today. Having code doesn’t qualify you to be a technology company.
Greg White (01:47):
That’s a good point. That’s a really good point. So –
Sena Zorlu (01:51):
But I think – yeah.
Greg White (01:53):
Well, no, no. Finish your thought. Definitely. Please finish that thought.
Sena Zorlu (01:53):
No. I was thinking, like, one thing we look at in Kubera is always, is there any differentiating technology? And I wanted to say how difficult it’s been to really identify companies who are building something proprietary. So much code is repurposed. So many algorithms are available on open source software. It is expensive to build something proprietary and it’s becoming very rare as well.
Greg White (02:36):
Yeah. A lot of people are using open source or cloud-based shared technologies to build what they’re doing.
Sena Zorlu (02:44):
No code, low code, and they can still deliver the end value. But especially for funds like us where that proprietary technology is a differentiator for investments, it becomes difficult.
Greg White (03:04):
Well, apology, I have to ask the question, is this solving a today problem or is it solving a tomorrow problem? And that is really what defines one big aspect of the investability of a company is, does it solve a tomorrow problem? Because if it can be solved with low code, it’s much like if it can be solved with an accumulation of open source. What have you really built that somebody else couldn’t build? This whole concept of a moat, right? Something that helps you avoid attack and being over [inaudible].
Sena Zorlu (03:42):
Absolutely. Especially, as you know, I look at a lot of future work stuff and it’s like 99 percent of future work deals are today work. They’re not necessary looking at the future.
Greg White (03:57):
The future. RPA strikes me as one of those types of things is, it’s automating things like invoice, reconciliation, that sort of thing. That’s not the future. That is the now. Hell, that should have been the 15 years ago.
Sena Zorlu (03:57):
That is a now. Absolutely. It’s wonderful that there’s more access to it. So, when you look at that phase of technology going to mainstream, I think it’s wonderful that AI, ML, all of these technologies are going more mainstream and there’s more welcoming towards these technologies from the enterprise. But we use the term human assisted AI a lot when we’re looking at AI, where we want AI to help decision makers make the best decisions. So, I think that’s the sweet spot of what we can do for tomorrow where let’s get rid of all mundane tasks that we’re doing today. Instead of building the exact same productivity software over and over and over again, and then all of us go back to Trello.
Greg White (05:06):
Right. It’s true. Yeah. It’s true. I mean, you know, to me, it feels like so much of what’s being done, some of it doesn’t even necessarily require AI. For instance, Siri, not AI.
Sena Zorlu (05:21):
A lot of AI companies are not AI anyways. Yeah. It’s mostly RPAs and workflows.
Greg White (05:30):
Yes. Exactly. Lots of linear programming. So, I have to ask you this, how did you acquire these skills? I mean, I know you’ve been a founder. And I know you’ve been involved in investing. But how did you acquire this ability to kind of break all this down to understand the investor and founder perspective and apply it so effectively? And I’m asking not for our community here. I’m asking for me because I want to figure out how you did it, so I can too.
Sena Zorlu (06:10):
I think two things. One is, I’m a generalist and there has been many points in my life where that has been very discouraging to me. And I haven’t enhanced and sort of owned up to being a generalist. Because if you’re ever searching for a job or if you want to be labeled as something, it’s very difficult when you’re a generalist. But that’s who I am.
Greg White (06:43):
Is that what we would call a jack of all trades in the States? You know a little bit about everything.
Sena Zorlu (06:48):
I don’t have a lot of traits. I don’t have a lot of traits in that – you know what I mean? But it’s like I can talk about many things, let’s say, if that’s a trait. So, it’s like, one side of that is, up to a couple of years ago, I always saw that as a disadvantage where I saw a lot of people as like being experts in something, and I was never an expert in anything. But then, I have learned to own up to it and benefit from it. And I think venture capital has helped that a lot because it helped me understand where I can put all of that to good use.
Sena Zorlu (07:29):
So, I would say one is that, I think, it’s okay to be a generalist and there are career paths that come from that. Especially in my early 20s, being a generalist was very confusing to me because everybody was like, “You were amazing in math. Why don’t you become an investment banker?” And like, “I don’t want to become an investment -” And like, “Why don’t you do this? Why don’t you -” it was all very confusing. Like, “Why don’t you become a lawyer?” And I didn’t want to do all of that. And it took me a while to own up to it and a lot of depression. But I would say that’s the first thing of, like, understanding where your strengths are and trying to replay the game with those strengths.
Sena Zorlu (08:18):
And the second thing is, I think I have a sponge-ish at the title learning. And then, not just learning, but re-digesting and structuring in a consumable way. Which could have made me like a good teacher or something. I think it’s mostly that. Like, I try to take knowledge and then for me to remember it well, I have to partition it and it has to fit into a box. That’s how I always took notes when I was in class. So, my notes were always very popular because I had, like, little diagrams. I took notes all over. It wasn’t one paper. And it was bullet-pointed because that’s how my mind was. So, I think that helps because when I learn something new, I try to position it in a way that can serve with everything else that I have. So, it’s not just life experiences. So, I think those are the two things that worked for me. But I would say, it took a long time for me to turn that into an asset.
Greg White (09:37):
That’s really interesting. I hear a lot of familiarity in that discussion. I think you’re much more aware and mindful of it than I ever was though. You kind of analyzed it and were thoughtful about it. I guess, I just thought I was too lazy to learn anything at any real depth and just accepted that.
Sena Zorlu (09:58):
I went to a doctor and I was like, “I think I have ADD.” I actually went to a professional. So, we got a worksheet and I was checking all of the points. And so, I went to the doctor and I was like, “Here’s the worksheet.” It was like 17 out of 20 or something. And it was a very short conversation where she took my life history and she said, “If you did well in school, you don’t have ADD. That’s the norm.” So, for me to tackle through what was wrong with me and how can I make sure that I can succeed in the future, because some of this is advantage and some of it is disadvantage. Having so many interests creates lack of focus, lack of prioritization.
Sena Zorlu (10:51):
And to do a startup, if you want to become a VC, you can have your ADD and become a VC. But if you don’t tackle through your productivity issues, you can’t be a good founder. So, for me to transition back into founder build, I had to sort how I can take this and put it into good use. So, for me, it was a process. Because I went through the process to actually solve a problem, I had to focus time to think about it. Because as you said, I just got a baby so it has given me new perspective on time. Because if I don’t get things done, when I can, I can not get them done. And I think pre-motherhood, time was a more fluid concept. So, I was forced into going through all of these changes to be a successful founder this time around. And, also, balance everything out that needs to be balanced.
Greg White (10:51):
Wow. Can I tell you that aside from sharing that, you know, the thing that you’ve really effectively communicated is why people who are known by other people get funded, get an advantageous position. Because you have just communicated effectively why and what you’ve gone through to be fit to be a founder. And it’s that interaction, that engagement that we have that I go, “I totally get her. I get how she’s turned that into a gift.” And I think that’s a good lesson for people, is, to communicate who you are and be comfortable with it. As so many people say, find your tribe, find those people who get you, who can help you to turn that into something great. Because even as disjointed as we are or have been in the past, Sena, we can make things great. And other people can too. And they just need somebody that gets that and that can help bring it out of them.
Greg White (13:20):
All right. But here’s the thing, you leaked something. And that is that you are a founder yet again. And I know your company is in Stealth. So, first, I would love for you to describe what the heck Stealth is for anyone out there who doesn’t know. And then, anything that you could share with us. Could we get an exclusive here at TECHquila Sunrise?
Sena Zorlu (13:45):
Yes and yes. So, Stealth, funny enough, there’s this trend that I’ve been loving – I don’t know if you’ve heard of it – Building in Public. I follow a couple of companies where they’re completely transparent with their revenues, with all of their processes, and everything. And it’s usually on Twitter, that’s where I’ve been finding them. But I’ve been following a couple of companies where they are building in public. So, Stealth is the complete opposite of that, where Stealth is like if you have a conviction of where your product is going in the markets and you think there’s a significant advantage to building behind doors a bit, you take the time to reveal to the public so that you can use the launch time to more of your advantage. So, for the first time, I’m building a consumer company, which is why we have chosen to build in Stealth.
Sena Zorlu (14:44):
But I would say with enterprise, it would be very stupid to do that. Whenever you can have customers, have them. Let people break your products. Do not care at all that it looks ugly. Like, enterprise is a completely different mindset. Whereas, consumer is like, you go to market once and, especially our product has a hardware component to it. We’re not building hardware, but we are, I say, hardware enabled, where we’re using off the shelf hardware to repurpose for different application. So, there isn’t that much room for a mistake when you’re going to consumer. So, for those reasons, we have chosen to stay aback a bit and we have built a group of product testers for us that are using the product. And, hopefully, they will evolve with the product and become our evangelist.
Sena Zorlu (15:42):
I’ll summarize what we do in a little bit. We are a mission-driven company. Our goal is to create an entertainment platform for children so that they can stay active indoors. And we are learning a lot doing that, so it will be a combination of physical activity and gaming and other things. But I want to say it’s an entertainment company. It’s not an education company. Because everything that’s built for the kids these days, they’re like, “This is education.” And I feel like kids are the biggest sponges in the world and they learn from anything as long as we build –
Greg White (15:42):
Everything is education. Yeah. Right.
Sena Zorlu (16:24):
Yes. Like, there’s education in everything. So, in that sense, I think we are first in entertainment and contents company. But with children, you never know where it goes. We are looking at those under six. We’re looking at kids under six. It’s a very tough market to crack. They’re very honest. They’re brutally honest, which is [inaudible]. So, we’ve actually built a little board of advisors with kids –
Greg White (16:59):
That is going to look good on some kid’s resume in the next 10 or 15 years, “I was on the board of advisers of a major consumer company.”
Sena Zorlu (17:07):
And it’s a lot of our social circle kids. But it is for the parents as well. I want to say parents, but we know this is going mostly for moms. Moms need a guilt-free break to do things for themselves. Whatever happens with COVID, work-from-home is here to stay. And a lot of outdoor activities that we’ve been going to, you know, going to movie theater, going to the gym, and a lot of activities, they’ve been pushed indoors in our lives with like Peloton and Netflix and all of it. So, I think this is going to be a venue where, if mom has a Peloton, hopefully, we’re going to be the platform for the kids. So, that’s what we’re working on.
Greg White (18:03):
Very cool. Well, that’s going to be a big market. Let me tell you, when all of those Pelotons finally gets shipped over here by air, that will be a big, big market.
Sena Zorlu (18:14):
Yeah. And it’s interesting, we’ve been doing a lot of potential customer calls, understanding of what people need, and the feedback has been wonderful. It’s an interesting market. First of all, as you said, very large markets and very large consumer spending. The millennial parent is spending above $1,000 more per child than Gen-X parents. So, there’s appetite. And most of it is digital products and, like, smart toys. So, there’s good appetite. There’s about 7 million kids that come into your market every year, so there’s fresh opportunity. So, it’s a good market, but at the same time, we have to discover how much it will be to acquire those newcomers into the market. So, it has its challenges as well, but I think it will be fun to figure it out.
Greg White (19:13):
I can’t wait. I know you can’t tell us right now, but I can’t wait to see it. Anything that keeps these poor kids who are heads down in their iPad while their parents eat dinner, anything that gets those kids active, I just feel has to be powerful. Maybe that’s a good thing. But, to me, it just seems a little unnatural for a kid to be isolated at dinner with headphones and their iPad in front of them. So, get these kids active. Get them engaged with mom and dad, with other kids, whatever. I think that is powerful, powerful stuff. And it will be for a good long time to come. It’s interesting. Some of the trends that we’ve seen evolving, like millennials buying homes, right? Remember, it wasn’t that long ago that we were talking about that millennials would never own their homes. And, now, they’re the largest purchasers of homes at least in the States.
Sena Zorlu (19:13):
And they’re relocating. That’s also been an insane trend where I think it’s going to be incredible where you have these technologists and high earners going into these traditional U.S. towns, bringing that consumer dynamic into these towns, bringing different service businesses along with them and different requirements. I think, it’s, again, a democratizer of small versus large cities. It’s going to be incredible.
Greg White (20:49):
Yeah. So, do you think that maybe Blue Ridge, Georgia will have a metropolitan museum?
Sena Zorlu (20:57):
Why not?
Greg White (20:58):
Maybe not. But you never know. Of course, if you’ve ever been to Blue Ridge, Georgia, it’s basically an outdoor museum. I mean, it has its own gifts if you’re looking for the wilderness, or lakes, or mountains, or trees, or parks, or paths.
Sena Zorlu (21:17):
I think we are going to digitize a lot of these experiences such as going into a museum. And I think as we add more space in our houses, I think we will have one spare room for the crazy digital activities of, like, the VR room, maybe something like that.
Greg White (21:37):
Yeah. The home theater of the past will become the VR room. Right. Yeah.
Sena Zorlu (21:43):
I think so. Also, I don’t know, with COVID we’ve learned, yes, the world is large. But we’ve learned also how small it is and how we are all tied to one another. So, I don’t know, everybody talks about roaring 20s, I don’t know how explosive travel – international travel specifically – and being more adventurous and all of that. I don’t know how those will pan out.
Greg White (22:17):
There’s a lot at the consumer level that’s going to be really difficult to predict, and that is going to continue to be a challenge for us. Because I think you’ll see a lot of trends start and then the current infrastructure, whatever, dynamics, won’t allow that trend to get to an explosive stage. Who knows? It’s just a thought. Not that I know anything. Okay. Well, first of all, thank you. And thank you for contributing something purpose-driven. I really, really appreciate that. I know you’re going to have to take this on as a full-time job, but I’m still going to call you for advice, so you have to answer the phone.
Sena Zorlu (23:04):
I think I will keep some sort of a honorary advisory something title with the phone. That’s what I’ve been –
Greg White (23:08):
Yes. That’s right. You’ll be our advisor, that’s right. So, that’ll be great. All right. So, before we wrap here, any single or a couple few takeaways that you just think if someone left this without getting this, they would really have missed out on the last – Lord, have mercy – few minutes.
Sena Zorlu (23:37)
I think two things that we talked about, one was build with purpose, change an industry, change a lifestyle, change something core, change navigation of space shuttles. Change something, but have that sort of daring vision to execute something big, I think that’s one. And the second is, understand how you grow and race for things that need money. I think those have been the two points where we’ve talked about the most.
Greg White (24:29):
Yeah. I agree. Those are fantastic. I think a couple of really down to earth aspects of both of those things are, build where the problem is. You basically opened with that, build where the problem is. And, also, funding doesn’t buy runway. Funding buys milestones, accomplishments, outcomes.
Sena Zorlu (24:54):
Talent. Talent. Yes.
Greg White (24:58):
Yeah. That’s right.
Sena Zorlu (24:59):
But having said that, I think I may need to go to LA because I think most of my talents for my company is based out of LA.
Greg White (25:09):
Perfect. I know some people. Well, you know some people. What am I saying?
Sena Zorlu (25:10):
That’s what I’ve been finding. So, my co-founder is actually based off of Toronto. So, we are complete remote first company. And we have someone in Latin America, one person in Turkey, and one person in Atlanta, and one contract person in Austin. So, we are all over.
Greg White (25:33):
Yeah. Very cool. I mean, I guess I’ve been doing that a long time, so that has been sort of my norm for over 20 years. But just over 20. But it is becoming more and more common for companies to be founded remotely. And it will probably be a year more for you to meet some of your teammates.
Sena Zorlu (26:04):
Kubera has been like that. Kubera was remote first from day one.
Greg White (26:09):
I keep forgetting, we’ve never met in person, right?
Sena Zorlu (26:13):
We’ve never met in person.
Greg White (26:15):
I totally forgot that. Yeah. It does feel so natural.
Sena Zorlu (26:20):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Greg White (26:22):
Well, thank you. Those are outstanding takeaways. This has been a great discussion, so much insight. I think people get what I get from you. So, I really appreciate you sharing that. Big thanks to you, Sena.
Sena Zorlu (26:36):
Thank you.
Greg White (26:38):
Sena Zorlu, Venture Partner at Kubera Venture Capital and Co-Founder at Stealth Startup, yet to be named. So, Sena, how can our community connect with you?
Sena Zorlu (26:59):
We can share my email. I’m happy to share –
Greg White (27:02):
Yeah. That’s fine. LinkedIn, Twitter –
Sena Zorlu (27:03):
LinkedIn is good. Twitter DMs are open. I would say –
Greg White (27:12):
What’s your handle on Twitter?
Sena Zorlu (27:14):
Zorlusena.
Greg White (27:16):
Okay. Nice.
Sena Zorlu (27:18):
I would say Twitter and LinkedIn are better than email. I’m not the best email communicator.
Greg White (27:22):
Okay. And it’s Sena, S-E-N-A Z-O-R-L-U.
Sena Zorlu (27:26):
S-E-N-A Z-O-R-L-U. That is me.
Greg White (27:31):
Like, what could be easier to spell than that?
Sena Zorlu (27:33):
Exactly.
Greg White (27:36):
All right. Thank you, Sena.
Sena Zorlu (27:38):
Thank you.
Greg White (27:40):
And thanks to everyone for joining me and Sena. And remember, acknowledge reality of refuse to be bound by it.
Outro (27:50):
How can I help you improve your shot at Supply Chain Tech success? Four ways. One, subscribe to TECHquila Sunrise and click the notification bell to make sure you get our new video every week. Two, follow me on LinkedIn and see my Supply Chain Summaries every weekday. Three, if you’re a startup founder or a growth stage leader, and you need an active advisor to help you propel you through your Supply Chain Tech journey, I’m currently considering select strategic advisory roles. Or four, if you need an incubator or investment for your Supply Chain Tech, find me and reach out on LinkedIn and let’s talk.
