Moving product is a big task in an even bigger world. Join Scott and Greg for the latest episode of The Supply Chain Buzz to take a closer look at the challenges and opportunities attached to freight forwarding with Keith Andrey, President of U.S. Freight Forwarding at UPS Supply Chain Solutions. Find out what “friend-shoring” is, whether air cargo is on its way to recovery and more.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges, and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott Luton (00:30):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton and Greg White with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today’s livestream. Greg, how are we doing today?

Greg White (00:38):

I think we’re doing okay. How am I doing? I feel like I may be laggy a little.

Scott Luton (00:43):

Well, you know, we’re working through some challenges as we work on all things digital improvement around here. I think you look great, man. You look like a million dollars.

Greg White (00:51):

Thanks, man. Look, I think as Katherine said the internet just needs to warm up a little bit and I believe that actually happens.

Scott Luton (01:01):

I should say $2 million, you know, inflation and all. But you look great. You look great. And looking forward to a big conversation today. Greg, as you know, it is the Supply Chain Buzz every Monday at 12 noon Eastern Time where we share some of the leading stories, some of the big movers and shakers across global business. Today, we’re going to be discussing a variety of topics. And talk about movers and shakers, we have a big special guest joining us around 12:25, Keith Andrey with UPS, Greg.

Greg White (01:30):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (01:32):

A titan, huh?

Greg White (01:33):

Yeah. Well president of one of the divisions at UPS. So, yes, we better be on our best behavior.

Scott Luton (01:42):

Right.

Greg White (01:43):

Mostly I better.

Scott Luton (01:45):

Well, you know, we got a lot. We’ll be talking air cargo. We’ll be talking friend-shoring and a lot more. So don’t miss this. If you – you’ve got one eye on email and one eye on the news but make sure you’re bringing both back here at 12:25 as we bring on our special guest around that. And, hey, as always, Greg, we want to hear from folks in the cheap seats, in the sky boxes, whatever we want to call it here today, maybe the7-55 club [inaudible] start calling.

Greg White (02:14):

[Inaudible] level. Yes, the club level.

Scott Luton (02:17):

So, folks, drop in your comments throughout the next hour and we’re going to share as many of those as we can get to. Okay. And we’re going to give a few shoutouts in just a minute. But, Greg, first I want to hit a couple of quick events and then we’re going to keep driving. How’s that sound?

Greg White (02:32):

Sounds good. We need Clay to continue his greeting. Welcome all.

Scott Luton (02:36):

Yes.

Greg White (02:38):

What day is it, Clay? Come on.

Scott Luton (02:40):

Right? Clay’s like a deacon today. Huh? He’s doing a lot of greeting and showing people where they’re sitting and all stuff.

Greg White (02:45):

That’s right.

Scott Luton (02:47):

Okay. But, hey, kidding aside, folks, one of our honorable initiatives around here that we’re very passionate about is supporting this initiative here, leveraging logistics for Ukraine. Greg, and the numbers we got last week, these collective efforts with Vector Global Logistics and a variety of partners have sent £325,000 of humanitarian aid to folks in need, this vetted aid. I mean, they told us exactly what they need and working with a collection of folks to get it where it needs to go. The next planning session is tomorrow, Tuesday, August 9th, 11:00 AM, Eastern Time. We’d love for you to come. You don’t – no obligation to do anything other than just sit in and listen as coordination continues. So y’all check that out tomorrow, August 9th, 11:00 AM. And, Greg, we’ve got an upcoming webinar this week, too, August 10th, Sustainability and Profitability: The Ripple Effect of Shipping Less Air. So y’all join us for that with our friends, Paccurate and stored, August 10th, that is Thursday. No check that. That’s Wednesday, Wednesday, August 10th. We’re talking August. Someone changed the dates on August, Greg? No. They’ve always been since the beginning of time, August 10th, Wednesday at 12 noon Eastern Time.

Greg White (04:07):

Air, the most expensive commodity in supply chain.

Scott Luton (04:11):

Right.

Greg White (04:12):

Worth nothing.

Scott Luton (04:12):

No.

Greg White (04:13):

Right? It still takes up space.

Scott Luton (04:16):

Oh, no kidding. No kidding.

Greg White (04:17):

Can’t even see it. Doesn’t make a noise when it hits the floor.

Scott Luton (04:23):

But we love shipping it. Okay. Well, let’s say hello to a few folks, and then we’re going to dive into a couple of stories before we welcome in our special guest. Stay tuned for this next hour. We’re going to – it’s going to be fast moving and a lot of heavy hitting perspective. So I want to say hello to – Jonathan’s back with us, the super planner from Louisiana. Greg, I bet he had a great weekend. What’d you think?

Greg White (04:46):

Well, unquestionably, yeah. I hope so. Let’s find out.

Scott Luton (04:51):

Jonathan, let us know how your weekend was. Of course, Josh Goodey holds down the west coast for us, from beautiful Seattle. Josh, how you doing today? Speaking of that upper northwest, sorry. I had to get my geographical bearings. Kyle Garcia is with us and I believe he’s still up in the Oregon area. Kyle, help me out here. Let us know where you’re tuned in from and great to see you here via LinkedIn. Greg, we mentioned the deacon or the diesel, whatever you want to call or refer to Clay here today, making it happen. He’s brokenhearted with me after the Braves dropped four of five games to the Mets. That was painful.

Greg White (05:33):

Not a good weekend. Yeah. What are they? Six and a half back now, right?

Scott Luton (05:38):

Yes. Yes. We’re closer to the Phillies in third place than we are to Mets in first, but, hey, optimism’s still abounds. We’ll see how the rest of the season.

Greg White (05:48):

Scherzer was awesome. Gosh.

Scott Luton (05:50):

Oh. You know, the Mets clearly –

Greg White (05:51):

Also, he’s one of the pitchers that get strikes that aren’t strikes, you know?

Scott Luton (05:55):

Yes.

Greg White (05:56):

Like Tom Garvin.

Scott Luton (05:59):

Yeah. No comment. I can’t complain as Braves’ fan, we can’t complain.

Greg White (06:02):

You can’t complain, but the guy never threw a strike in his career.

Scott Luton (06:05):

Katherine, great to have you here. “Happy Monday from my warmed up internet.” Greg, how about that?

Greg White (06:12):

Thank you. Thanks for keeping ours warmed up as well.

Scott Luton (06:15):

Gary Smith, the legend. We’re all members of the Gary Smith fan club here in Atlanta. Hello, everyone –

Greg White (06:23):

Soon to be from the Golden Isles.

Scott Luton (06:24):

That’s right. That’s right. You know, it’s been a little while since I connected with Gary, but he is a Georgia tech grad, been doing big things in supply chain for a number of years, been up in New York for quite some time. And it’s good to see he’s going to be headed back south to St. Simons Island soon.

Greg White (06:42):

I’m sure. You know, just port research, he’s not retiring or, you know, dialing it back or anything like that. Port research.

Scott Luton (06:49):

Port research. I love it. Helmut. Well, I missed one. Shelly, great to have you back. I’ve really enjoyed all of your contributions during these livestreams. Good morning, she says, from the home of Coors beer, Colorado, of course, via LinkedIn. I look forward to your perspective today. Greg? Yes. The banquet beer. Yes. Nice, nice.

Greg White (07:11):

Whatever that means.

Scott Luton (07:25):

Right. Helmut, great to have you here. I’ve enjoyed your social contributions and of course what you share here ready for a new episode. I’m trying to sound out his –

Greg White (07:25):

Dagadagada.

Scott Luton (07:27):

Yes.

Greg White (07:27):

Dagadagada.

Scott Luton (07:28):

There you go. It almost sounds like Buck Rogers there. But, Helmut, great to have you back. Looking forward to your contributions. Let’s see here. Gene Pledger, old GP, from North Alabama is back with us. Good morning to you. I never get this right.

Greg White (07:45):

Come on, come on, Doc Holliday.

Scott Luton (07:47):

The Doc Holliday of supply chain, Fred Tolbert is here.

Greg White (07:50):

He’s your Huckleberry.

Scott Luton (07:51):

It’s a hot, hot August day, which means it’s a great day to be in supply chain. Fred, great to see you via LinkedIn and appreciate all the good work you’re doing, mentoring the now generation in supply chain. TSquared, holding down the fort for us on YouTube says, “Good Monday folks! Bring on the supply chain management nourishment. And hopefully UPS will have some WorldPort and ATL superhub on this one.” TSquared dropping the insider knowledge. We’ll see. We’ll see if Keith wants to weigh in on some of these things. Great to see you though. “Portland.” Kyle Garcia from Portland. I knew that, Kyle.

Greg White (08:28):

The ‘90s are alive and well in Portland.

Scott Luton (08:32):

Great to see you here. Rahil, from Barcelona, via LinkedIn, hello, hello. Shinto, via LinkedIn, let us know where you’re tuned in from. Great to have you here. Hey, Joey’s back from Minnesota. Great to see you via LinkedIn, Joey. Have really enjoyed your sense of humor and contributions. Man, we got a full house today. James Walker from Sierra Leone. “So excited to be part of this thrilling session.” Greg, have you ever been accused of being thrilling?

Greg White (09:00):

Never.

Scott Luton (09:01):

James.

Greg White (09:03):

I’ve been accused of a lot of things, but never thrilling.

Scott Luton (09:06):

James, look forward to hearing from you as we work through our topics here today. Okay. Well, Greg, with no further ado, I want to jump into the first topic. How’s that sound?

Greg White (09:19):

Yeah, that sounds great. I’ve been doing a little research while we’ve been greeting everyone here, so hopefully I can get –

Scott Luton (09:24):

That’s good.

Greg White (09:25):

The camera to focus on it. I’ll show everybody.

Scott Luton (09:28):

You’re always – you can do about nine things at once. I’ve always been very impressed. But, hey, today I want to start with –

Greg White (09:36):

[Inaudible] mediocrity, Scott. That’s –

Scott Luton (09:38):

I want to start today’s discussion with a trend that, Greg, we’ve been talking about for quite some time, right? More freight coming into east coast ports here in the U.S. So as reported here by CNBC, shippers continue to shift freight to the east coast and away from the west coast for a variety of reasons. But chief amongst them are labor concerns. Of course, with the shift in freight patterns, come new challenges. In Savannah, for instance, which is just down the road from Greg, waiting times are up from one day in May to 13 days plus presently. How about that?

Greg White (10:14):

Wow.

Scott Luton (10:15):

And, Greg, get this. Due to automation and other factors, a container ship in China will be offloaded in less than a day, but here in the U.S. ports it can take four to six days. And, of course, automation’s a hot topic in the ports right this moment. But, Greg, your take on these freight patterns.

Greg White (10:35):

Well, let’s see if I can give everybody a visual on –

Scott Luton (10:40):

Nice.

Greg White (10:40):

Sorry for the – that is what it looks like. The green little dots, those are ships. The red ones are oil tankers, and the kind of pink ones, those are yachts. So those people are having fun, but notice there are a lot more people waiting for 13 days than having fun. So, just to give you an idea, that is what it looks like out there off of the coast of Georgia and South Carolina. So, you know, it’s been a challenge, right, as more and more ships have moved to Houston and Jacksonville and Savannah and Charleston and I think even to the New York and New Jersey ports. It’s become a challenge for everyone. And then, a report we got from Savannah sometime back was that they had a lift down, one of their entire areas, I think, where they offload ships had gone down. So that had really slowed them and started this back up. It went from kind of maybe three to five ships to that’s about 37 ships waiting offshore of Savannah right now over the horizon so they don’t bother anyone’s view on the beach, but they are out there and you can see the lights at night for sure.

Scott Luton (11:58):

Waiting, waiting, waiting. Well, you know, it’ll be interesting to see moving forward in weeks and months ahead to see how the east coast and the east coast ports continue to make adjustments ‘cause, you know, they’re happy. They want to keep winning more and more freight. Right? But the [inaudible] always been some challenges.

Greg White (12:16):

[Inaudible] are going to help them do that. I mean, right. We can’t solve one set of backups with a whole bunch of others. And I think the California ports are Long Beach and LA, they’re starting to come back around, right, so, you know –

Scott Luton (12:31):

Excellent point.

Greg White (12:31):

Maybe what we start to do is spread out the deliveries across the states. Now, it’s best to be able to provision for that because you also want your chassis inland and, you know, the ability to get to inland ports to consolidate and deconsolidation and all of that. So, there’s probably some change to come, but this may be a good thing that has us kind of smear demand across more ports.

Scott Luton (13:00):

Right. Yep. We’ll keep our finger on the pulse as things continue to evolve in the macro and micro or maybe vice versa, but what have you.

Greg White (13:09):

Well, I think hopefully we rise to the challenge of being able to offload these ships much, much more quickly. Right? We use a ton of labor to do it today. Labor in that particular area of the supply chain is very difficult to come by. I actually commented on an article today about that.

Scott Luton (13:30):

And, gosh, labor, whether it’s ports or fulfillment centers across global supply chain, maybe global business.

Greg White (13:36):

Transportation. Yeah.

Scott Luton (13:37):

Yeah. Transportation. It’s all a challenging time right now. But I want to shift gears, no pun intended, although it would be very apropos. So, Greg, bringing this back into picture, and by the way, you know, despite some of the challenges we’re going to talk about, that’s a good-looking truck.

Greg White (13:55):

It is good looking ride, isn’t it? Yeah.

Scott Luton (13:58):

So, Greg, a lot of folks enjoyed – so you do a supply chain summary commentary on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on LinkedIn and, man, what you dropped last week, I think it was last Wednesday, on what’s going on at Rivian caught a lot of folks, a lot of comments, a lot of views, you name it. So, for the second time today, give us a Reader’s Digest version of your take here.

Greg White (14:23):

Well, the Reader’s Digest version is that $11 billion were invested in Rivian before it went public. And its valuation is $28 billion, which is about three-fifths of the valuation of Ford and they’ve produced 9000 vehicles. So, that is the Reader’s Digest. And for those of you not born in 1950, that means a very condensed version of the story.

Scott Luton (14:51):

I got to update my analogies, don’t I, Greg?

Greg White (14:54):

But what is there? I mean, even UST – you could say the UST, USA today version, which was like three bullet points, even that’s gone. So, how do you condense things these days? The Twitter version? That’s a little bit too condensed and too angry.

Scott Luton (15:09):

Ah, yes. But, you know, Rivian continues, you know, the supply chain issues that they and many others are facing continue to persist and you know, Greg, we’re both based – I’ve got roots at least in Georgia and, you know, here it hits home because Rivian and the state of Georgia had a deal in place, have a deal in place. I don’t know. I’m not sure exactly where it stands today. But a $5 billion plant to open near Covington, Georgia, which was set to create some 7500 jobs. And as you and I have chatted about, you know, there’s a good bit of local opposition in terms of where they’re going to put that plant and how –

Greg White (15:54):

I did not know that. Is that? Isn’t that right?

Scott Luton (15:55):

In fact, if I’m not mistaken, last week, could have been a week before last week, but as you might imagine, there’s lots of lawsuits percolating and one judge at least paused some of the actions as he or she was hearing some of the complaints of some of the local contingent. So, hey, you know, rarely do you get everybody, you know, a hundred percent support of a lot of these developments. But anything else you want to add about Rivian valuation, the operational issues, you name it? I mean, what’s your thoughts? You think the plants, we’re going to see that in the next couple years? Is it going to come to fruition?

Greg White (16:35):

Well, you know, they announced some layoffs recently about 6% of their sales force. I think they announced that over the weekend, but just since that article last Monday, their market cap is up – please hold – approximately $4 billion, which would just about pay for that plant if people want the work in Georgia. So, you know, I think it’s a very fluid situation. Look, the point of that article really was we keep throwing money at companies that don’t seem to have their act together. I mean, this is a company that had a configurator on their website that, for instance, allowed you to customize the vehicle and this is really what got my ire up. It allowed you to customize the vehicle, but it didn’t limit the customizations based on what they could actually deliver. You could actually order a car, have 10 customizations, and nine of them could not have been provided, yet they still showed them to you.

Greg White (17:42):

And that seemed like a big miss to me for any level of company. But certainly for one that had $11 billion in capital before they were even public. So, I think that as much of the story is that we need to help these visionaries who are usually the people that start companies like Rivian to have some greater operational gifts. And, I think investors, like Ford, need to get more involved. They could have said, “Hey, you know, we stopped mass customization in the ‘70s, by the way.” But if you do have customization, at least make sure you have the stuff on hand that people are ordering.

Scott Luton (18:23):

Right. Right. And that always reminds me of that rumored response that Henry Ford gave way back in the day when he was being asked what color can we get our Model T in?

Greg White (18:35):

Any color.

Scott Luton (18:35):

Anything you want, as long as it’s black. Color of the Model T.

Greg White (18:40):

Right. And let’s think about what an innovation, the horseless carriage was. What did people want? I mean, this is what visionaries do, though, right? What did people ask Henry Ford for?

Scott Luton (18:50):

A faster horse.

Greg White (18:51):

A faster horse, right? What he did was he tucked a bunch of horsepower into this little metal thing and then put it in a cart and there it came the horseless carriage with 25 horsepower. Right?

Scott Luton (19:04):

Well, Greg, I am so proud of you. As Shelly says you did give us TikTok version of the Rivian [inaudible].

Greg White (19:09):

There it is. TikTok could do it. Yes.

Scott Luton (19:13):

Absolutely.

Greg White (19:15):

Scott, you need to be a TikTok star.

Scott Luton (19:16):

No. As our team, we want to give you, I’ll make sure everyone knows we dropped the link to Greg’s take, fuller take, on Rivian in the comments, his LinkedIn, that’s where you’ll find his supply chain summaries every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We’d love for y’all to jump on there and give us your take in particular. You’ll see a lot of takes and observations on the Rivian story. By the way, hello, Byron. Great to see you here. Great to have you back. Enjoyed your contributions, especially last week with Mike Griswold and Gartner. You had some elegant takes on Bill Russell as we were looking back on his legendary career and journey. And, Josh, we’ll put this out to folks. Josh says, “Had a question for the semi and train rail folks. Have there been any major infrastructure updates to support the increase of flow from east to west?” So, we’ll see. I think he’s talking about the flow of the freight from the east ports out to all points west, rather than the flow of the freight patterns, you know, if going from – calling on west ports, west coast ports to east coast ports. So, it’s a great question. Put that out there, and we’d welcome everyone’s observations. Okay. I want to give a quick signal, Greg, we’re going to have a couple of bonus minutes with our guests today. We got through both of those stories. Greg, I had you allocated about 25 minutes on the Rivian story. We got through it so efficiently.

Greg White (20:50):

I got more to say, if you want to – I’m just kidding.

Scott Luton (20:52):

Well, I tell you what, I want encourage people –

Greg White (20:55):

I think we covered the top points.

Scott Luton (20:57):

Yes. That’s right. And again, I want to encourage people to have your say, you know, bring your voice, drop it on that LinkedIn post, and we’d love to get your take. You know, maybe next week we can review some of those responses. We got a lot of – and a lot of sharp people. I think we got the sharpest audience in the world here at Supply Chain Now. Okay. So, Greg, are we ready to bring in our guest today? I’m excited to talk with Keith. Are you ready to go, Greg?

Greg White (21:26):

Yeah, let’s do it.

Scott Luton (21:27):

Ready to do it?

Greg White (21:28):

Yeah.

Scott Luton (21:28):

All right. So formally, I want to welcome in Keith Andrey, President of UPS, U.S. Operations and Freight Forwarding. Hey, hey, Keith, how we doing?

Keith Andrey (21:41):

Good. How are you doing there, Scott, Greg?

Scott Luton (21:44):

Doing wonderful.

Greg White (21:44):

Welcome aboard.

Scott Luton (21:45):

Great to see you. Enjoyed – I didn’t get a chance to enjoy one of the pre-show conversations as much, had a little digital connection problem. But, Greg, we found out a couple things about Keith in the pre-show here today, including something that we might can touch on about, y’all’s mutual love for motorcycles, huh?

Greg White (22:05):

Yeah. And he’s got a pretty sweet ride. I was not familiar with the Triumph 3, but that is a beautiful bike. A buddy of mine had I think the precursor to that bike, and wow what a beautiful ride that is. Yes.

Scott Luton (22:22):

I’m so jealous.

Greg White (22:23):

Sorry. So Keith is a motorcycle enthusiast.

Scott Luton (22:29):

And Keith was describing his weekend exploits and, Keith, you got some [inaudible] that last weekend, right?

Keith Andrey (22:35):

Yeah, I did. So I went up to the Georgia mountains. So, I have a Triumph Rocket 3 R Black, the second generation, so a little lighter than the old one, a lot faster, very enjoyable ride.

Scott Luton (22:49):

Man, I’m jealous, Keith. And it was a gorgeous – a little bit, I would say my wife, I think Amanda might disagree with me. Saturday morning at least, we got a little brief respite, if I said that right, from the humidity. It was a little less humid at least where we were in Athens at the farmer’s market. So, Keith, I bet it was a gorgeous day to ride.

Keith Andrey (23:10):

Yeah. Fantastic up in Northern Georgia when it’s not raining and it’s not 100 degrees, so it was a fun time.

Greg White (23:19):

‘Cause you are sitting on a heater when you’re on your – when you’re going around.

Keith Andrey (23:25):

Yeah. That’s 2500 cc’s in that motorcycle so it’s not a lot of heat.

Scott Luton (23:31):

Man. All right. Well, one other thing, before we start to talk air cargo and other things with you here today, Keith. One other fun question I want to pose to you ‘cause it’s Elvis week. It’s Elvis week around the globe. We have a full week dedicated to his legendary status. So, two-part questionnaire, Keith, have you seen the big movie that that’s winning accolades from around the world focusing on Elvis and secondly, your favorite Elvis tune? So, Keith.

Keith Andrey (24:04):

The answer is no, I’ve not seen the movie, but I’m more of a Led Zeppelin fan than I am an Elvis fan. So now that –

Greg White (24:14):

[Inaudible] like Elvis on certain tours.

Keith Andrey (24:16):

You know, and, Scott, I’m waiting for that week. I’m waiting for the Led Zeppelin week to come up –

Greg White (24:20):

Lep Zep week.

Keith Andrey (24:20):

And I’ll be all over that. I think I do have a couple songs in in my library. I think Heartbreak Hotel.

Scott Luton (24:32):

Yep.

Keith Andrey (24:32):

In The Ghetto, Jailhouse Rock, and I think Are You Lonesome Tonight.

Greg White (24:37):

Oh, those are great ones.

Scott Luton (24:39):

So do you sing those, Keith? Any chance we get you to sing one today?

Keith Andrey (24:44):

No. You’ll lose all your attendees [inaudible]. So that’ll be it for Supply Chain Now. That will be the end.

Scott Luton (24:53):

It’ll all be just supply chain then, huh? All right. So, Greg, I’ll tell you. He has a nice collection of tunes. And I bet we could have a full Led Zep conversation with Keith. But, Greg, have you seen the movie and what’s your favorite tune?

Greg White (25:06):

Have seen the movie. Austin Butler, I think is his name, absolute genius. I mean, I actually have seen so many of the videos. My mother was a huge Elvis fan and I’ve seen so many of the videos of him performing in Vegas and elsewhere. And I mean, there was a scene in the movie where I had to do a double take and go, is that actually Elvis or is that the actor doing it? I mean, it was that good. And also, if you didn’t hate Colonel Parker, complete scam artist, by the way, if you didn’t hate him before, you definitely will after this movie and the hatred is well earned. So, my favorite Elvis song is A Little Less Conversation, a little more action.

Scott Luton (25:50):

Oh, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. That’s a great one, Greg. All right. Let me hit a couple quick comments and then, Keith, we’re going to dive in, me and Greg are going to dive in with you on air cargo and a couple other things going on across global business. Manjunathaiah, I believe is how we pronounce that. If I got it wrong, I apologize. Let us know when. We want to get everybody’s names right. Says “Cargo exports supply chain manage booming right now.” Trade is certainly – trade is certainly booming across the supply chain world. Kyle, thank you. Appreciate that. Always – you’re too kind, Kyle, too kind. And Sayantan, Sayantan, “Thanks for giving me an opportunity to participate as a viewer here.” Hey, we want to hear from you, be more than a viewer, love for you to weigh in on what you hear today and give us your take.

Scott Luton (26:41):

Speaking of, Greg and Keith, speaking of takes, I want to get into one of your areas of expertise, Keith, air cargo, right? Air cargo world has been really experiencing quite a market the last couple years. And I want to lay out a couple of quick facts to share with folks as we kind of table set a bit. Sixty-six million metric tons being shipped through the air in 2021. That number’s expected to crest over 69 million metric tons in 2022. But, Keith, for some of our listeners, and we’ll get to this article in just a second. For some of our listeners, they may not have as much direct experience. You know, I work in the air cargo. I told you and Greg pre-show, all of my little bit of experience came in the Air Force in the military, right, loading refuelers where they carry some of the cargo not in the belly but in wherever they call the –

Greg White (27:36):

Cabin.

Scott Luton (27:36):

The passenger section. Cabin. Thank you, Greg. Technical term there. But, Keith, you know, what’s one thing that might surprise folks that aren’t, don’t know as much about the air cargo world?

Keith Andrey (27:48):

Yeah. I think the first thing I can think of is the third parties. There are more third parties executing the move on behalf of the forwarder and the airline. And as a result of that, there’s third parties who give things to other third parties who give things to other third parties. And I think most people think it’s just the forwarder and the airline and it’s the forwarder or the airline and all the airline partners and all the forwarder partners that make up a very, very complicated supply chain. So I think that’s one of the things people don’t realize. And even when customers were concerned about what was happening during COVID, you know, where you had CFS operations that were understaffed and they would say, “Hey, just change the airline.” But the problem is, both airlines are sharing the same CFS, you know, operator in the whatever airport that that is. So I think it’s that education is probably something that’s not well understood. And that’s been happening over the last decade. You know, when like you made the reference to the Air Force, the Air Force back when you were in it was doing everything soup to nuts, but over time, even the military, as well as in the forwarding and in the airlines, that’s all gone to components of it being more and more outsourced.

Scott Luton (29:05):

Interesting. Interesting. Greg, what I hear, some of what I hear there from Keith, I learned a couple new things there just in the last couple minutes. But every return complexity, complexity, complexity. Greg, we can’t get a break, can we?

Greg White (29:19):

Yeah. I’m curious. Is that – I mean, this is more question than answer, Keith. That complexity, is that legacy process or is that completely necessary? I mean, is there a way to streamline that in some way?

Keith Andrey (29:33):

Yeah. I think when the supply chains were more stable, the idea of reducing cost by sharing non-mission critical components of your business was very, very popular. But once the supply chain was tested and unemployment got tighter and finding people to do the jobs and you had COVID, that exposed a lot of challenges within the airline industry. So just the sheer amount of cancellations, additions, short notice additions, to the schedules stress those groups pretty significantly. And that example that I used, you know, you have one third party, but the problem is universal to three, four, five different airlines. And that complexity of it, I think, is legacy to efficiency that impacted once the supply chain became more volatile and less predictable.

Scott Luton (30:32):

If that’s your last phrase there, volatility and unpredictability, goodness gracious, we’ve been living it and breathing it. All right. But, hey, folks, Greg and Keith, and to all of our dear listeners and viewers, there’s some good news. And I want to bring up this article here from Air Cargo News. So according to Air Cargo News, a survey of industry practitioners and air forward and the Airforwarders Association members say that 2023 is looking like a great year. Well, at least the first half of 2023. So hopefully, Keith we’re getting, you know, maybe being able to take a breath second half of this year, maybe moving into next year, your thoughts on what this survey is projecting.

Keith Andrey (31:18):

Yeah. I tend to be a little bit more pessimistic, I think, than the article. I think historically, you know, whenever there’s been an increase of inflation, you’ve really seen a reduction in spending and a reduction in associated demand. I think the wild card though is you have low unemployment. You have, you know, accumulated spending power of the consumer due to COVID. So there’s a lot of wildcards that change that equation a little bit. But historically when you’ve seen rise of inflation, there was always a period of spending and less demand during that time period. So, I’m expecting in my own view 2023 is probably more realistic, maybe early 2024 that you’ll really see some strong recovery from where we’re at.

Scott Luton (32:13):

Okay. It’s good. It’s good, Greg, to be conservative and a bit pessimistic about these, by any economic or industry projection. Your thoughts, Greg.

Greg White (32:25):

Well, Keith has nothing to gain by overshooting, right? I mean, truthfully, he’s doing it. He’s doing it day to day, right? Whereas, you know, you look at things like the Airforwarders Association kind of like the real estate associations. Of course, they’re optimistic because they’re hopeful, right? They’re hopeful for their constituency. They’re hopeful for their members, you know, and they try to believe beyond belief that everything will continue to go up. And they’re all kinds of indicators to the [inaudible] Keith [inaudible]. So, I think it’s great to be able to have these perspectives, not just from associations and government agencies and things like that, but from the people who are actually living it every day. I wonder if there’s anybody in the air freight industry out there on the show today that could give us their take on it. It’d be really interesting to hear that, wouldn’t it, guys?

Scott Luton (33:23):

Great call out. Folks, less than what you’re seeing, especially when it comes to air cargo. And if you want to be bold, then offer up a prediction, projection for the next couple years. That would be wonderful. I think we dropped the link to the Air Cargo News article in the comments. So, folks, y’all can check that out on your own. Hey, Keith, before we move over to this notion of friend-shoring, any final thoughts with what, you know, of this interesting unique time we’ve been going through as global supply chains maybe specifically about air cargo or where we’re headed. Any final thoughts, Keith?

Keith Andrey (33:59):

Yeah, sure. I think I’ll talk and Greg can probably weigh into this too, but the forwarders tend to do really well when there’s supply chain destruction. That’s when the value of the forwarder really shines and it’s where the customers value who they’re dealing with the most. And then, so if you look at the results of a lot of the freight forwarders coming in right now, they’ve all been really, really well during this period of time. And that’s a move to value during a crisis. And that’s where, you know, we do well. When it’s very sustainable and consistent and predictable, that’s when the procurement side of the organizations we do business with kick in, and that’s when the dollars start getting squeezed out of the supply chain. So right now, it’s like, hey, do whatever it takes to get my product on the shelf or do whatever it takes to get the raw material to the factory. That’s going to shift when demand shifts, and it’s going to go back to, hey, let’s have the most efficient, predictable supply chain we can have, and that evolution’s going to happen like it has for the last, you know, four or five decades. So, we’re going to see that. But I think, you know, [inaudible] is more volatility it has, the forwarders tend to do better. And, you know, once that’s gets to be normalized then that’s when it tightens up and that shifts.

Scott Luton (35:19):

Well said. Well said. Appreciate that clarification, those thoughts. Greg, your final thoughts here.

Greg White (35:25):

Yeah. Well, it’s coming, isn’t it? I just recently read an article that said, okay, this is not a leading indicator or anything, but it is indicative. Chipotle is seeing more wealthy people buying food at Chipotle as they issue going to luxury restaurants and go instead to Chipotle. And they’re seeing more of their mid-level folks, right, kind of fall out of buying Chipotle, maybe cooking at home or –

Scott Luton (35:56):

Interesting.

Greg White (35:56):

God forbid, Taco Bell. But we’re starting to see those shifts. I’m curious. I mean, I don’t know what you guys are seeing, but I’m pulling back big time, you know, and I think a lot of people are.

Scott Luton (36:13):

Yeah. Let me – so I’ve never been confused for an economist, and, Keith, you should know that too, ‘cause Greg already knows that. But I mentioned the farmer’s market. You know, we went to a different farmer – you know, usually you can find us in Monroe, beautiful downtown Monroe at the farmer’s market – went to a different one over the weekend. And the very first thing that got my attention from the breakfast biscuit I got one of my kids to perusing all the – man, the prices across the board, the prices. And, you know, a lot of times at farmer’s market, you can get bargains galore. But, man, that was across the board and, Greg, that probably parallels nicely with what you just shared. And, Keith, whether we like it or not, challenging pricing environment out there, huh?

Keith Andrey (37:02):

Yeah, definitely. I think in my own experience, in my own household, my partner is out in the back doing the farm routine, you know, so those are going to be 20 less squashes she’s not going to buy at the market. Right? So, I mean –

Scott Luton (37:18):

I love it.

Keith Andrey (37:18):

It’s all going on everywhere.

Scott Luton (37:20):

Man, Keith, we got to work with a little deal, a little squash supply chain.

Keith Andrey (37:27):

Sure. I like that. There might be a bucket coming your way ‘cause it’s a big plot of land out there.

Scott Luton (37:32):

Awesome. Well, hey, really enjoying conversation. We’re going to take a little bit of a right turn here in just a moment. But, Greg and Keith, y’all make quite a nice one-two punch. You know, maybe we can tee up the next episode. It’ll be like the supply chain version to CHiPs and we have both of y’all on your motorcycles talking supply chain. We’ll see if the production team can – Keith, would you be game for that?

Keith Andrey (37:56):

I sure would. You want to set that up.

Greg White (37:59):

Do you want to be Erik Estrada or, I forget – I only know the character’s name, John.

Keith Andrey (38:05):

Ponch and John.

Greg White (38:06):

Ponch and John.

Scott Luton (38:07):

Ponch and John.

Greg White (38:08):

You want to be Ponch or John?

Keith Andrey (38:10):

Classic. I think I’m probably more Ponch like.

Greg White (38:13):

Okay.

Keith Andrey (38:14):

So John is actually the more reasonable guy for [inaudible].

Greg White (38:17):

Oh, man, that means – yeah, I have to be the reasonable one. Okay, fine.

Keith Andrey (38:21):

We can reverse it.

Scott Luton (38:21):

All right. So coming to –

Greg White (38:24):

It’ll be good. It’ll be –

Scott Luton (38:24):

Coming to a livestream –

Greg White (38:27):

It’ll be a good –

Scott Luton (38:28):

Coming to a livestream [inaudible], supply chain version of ChiPs, going mobile. Okay. And, Rahil, we’ll see if we can get to your question here in a moment. But first we want to tackle this notion that we heard about here in the last few weeks, friend-shoring. Friend-shoring. So as we were talking pre-show that name sounds a bit hokey, but the concept behind it is something that I bet a lot of folks can get around. So this term friend-shoring was used in a mid-July speech in South Korea made by a U.S. treasury secretary, Janet Yellen. Basically, it’s a play on onshoring, nearshoring, you know, but calls for supply chain collaboration really focused on allied countries, right? Friends. So, Keith, this notion of friend-shoring, your thoughts.

Keith Andrey (39:22):

Yeah. I mean friend-shoring, nearshoring, offshoring, reshoring, I think the end, once you take the politics out of it, it’s the same for the buyer, buyers looking for a predictable supply chain at the lowest cost. And so, every one of those terms has happened. Even global, you know, going offshore has been an issue of trying to look for stability in the supply chain at the lowest cost in order to attest the increase of cost of the product sitting on the shelves. And so, I don’t – and then the names are always dressed up a little bit for politic reasons, but the reality is kind of the same in all those efforts. Every good buyer, every good supply chain manager is looking for ways to get stability and get lower cost in their supply chain and that can be anywhere in the world. And that’s why that quest has always been there. It’s been there for at least the last 20 years. And I think that’s going to kind of continue.

Keith Andrey (40:20):

I do think it’s a good warning that, you know, policies are going to start getting harder with nations that don’t exactly follow the same path that we want to follow. And as a result of that, once you had it start with the prior administration, it’s being continued with this administration, that means it becomes a policy that transcends politics around party affiliation. And that’s a warning that we have to, as supply chain managers, we have to be able to adjust to new sourcing patterns and new changes within the supply chain that are coming. And I actually think it was a good morning. I’m with you, near-sourcing, you know, whatever you want to call it, friend-sourcing. But it’s a shift to say to us in supply chain, hey, for the long term, you better start planning for change from where you’ve historically sourced from. And that’s kind of how we’re taking it.

Scott Luton (41:16):

You know, Keith, and, Greg, coming to you next, we’ll get your thoughts here. But, you know, we’ve seen in recent years more and more – you know, countries probably since the beginning of time have leveraged, I won’t say weaponized, raw goods and global supply chains. But, man, we sure are seeing a lot more of that in recent years, some with national security implications for sure. But, Greg, your thoughts on this notion of friend-shoring and what Keith has shared there.

Greg White (41:44):

Keith might want to turn his camera off so he doesn’t make a reaction. It’s going to get him trouble with the bosses. Are you kidding me? Of course, of course, people started with friend-shoring. This is to echo what Keith said, it’s a signal of a policy change. Nobody went first to the Russians and Chinese and said, hey, you, despites, you want to make this stuff for us? Of course, we exhausted every the – we exhausted the capacity of every one of our allies before we went to the enemy, frankly. So I think, you know, it’s political grandstanding. You know, it’s popular speak. It’s a way to seem relevant, but no one chose China for any reason other than price and because capacity literally cannot be accumulated among dozens of other countries. And at the time that everyone went to China, India’s infrastructure was even less established than it is now. So we couldn’t really go to anyone who was remotely friendly.

Greg White (42:50):

So, I think what we have to understand here is this is a lot of politics. It is policy signaling, and it’s good that Keith and others hear that so that they can respond to that. But this isn’t news to anyone, and it’s cute and pollyannish and all of that, but it’s unattainable. I mean, if it were attainable, we’d already be doing it. Right? So, you know, we know the BRIC countries are not the ideal business partners, but what choice do we have at this point? So, I think it’s great to talk about. My concern is that the policy does more damage than good ‘cause policy often means things like tariffs and whatever else, but my concern is that it could really do more harm than good. And when it – anyway, we don’t know what direction policy is going to take, but we know that it’s going to be incomplete whenever produced by politicians and that there will be a slew of unintended consequences coming out of it. So watch your back, Keith, that’s what I’m going to say.

Scott Luton (43:59):

Well, great take. And as always, Greg does not – he tells it like it is. I appreciate that, Greg. And, Keith, I appreciate your perspective as well. We’re talking about this notion of friend-shoring that Secretary Yellen included in her speech. Gary says, “Friend-shoring is becoming more important, especially as U.S. – China relations develop.” And that’s putting it kindly, Gary. I appreciate –

Greg White (44:22):

Yeah. I think he meant to type devolve there, not develop.

Scott Luton (44:27):

Right. No kidding.

Greg White (44:28):

But, you know, I mean there are lots of ways we could. I would consider the U.S. a friend to the U.S., wouldn’t you, Scott?

Scott Luton (44:37):

Yeah. Absolutely.

Greg White (44:38):

And yet we’re overseas begging one of the most despotic, despicable and dangerous dictatorships on the planet for oil. And at the same time, by the way, we’re – I love the irony of this – at the same time, we’re decrying the move of a few golfers from the PGA to this Saudi Arabian tour as well. Right?

Scott Luton (45:06):

We’ll have to cover.

Greg White (45:07):

I dig the irony of politics, man.

Scott Luton (45:09):

Right. Golf. Gosh, interesting. We’ll have to save that for another show. But, Keith, I want to circle back moving on to a couple resources that we’ve got and, by the way, Nasrin, I meant to say, hello, greetings. Great to have you back. I think you joined us for a livestream not too long ago, from Iran, via LinkedIn. Great to have you here today. I look forward to your perspective. A couple of resources that I want to make sure that we got from the UPS team, we’re going to put out there. And, Keith, we’ll have a couple of final questions and observations for you. But first off, I want to share this UPS Supply Chain Insights that we’ve got. I want to invite our listeners to check out this resource center, events, offers, perspectives, you know, actionable perspectives. Check this out. You can subscribe. You can check it out. You can also opt into the emails which offers a lot of these delivered on time and in full to your email inbox every morning. So, Keith, you and your team work overdrive beyond the – you like that, Greg?

Greg White (46:24):

I love on time [inaudible].

Scott Luton (46:25):

Beyond the – good old OTIF. Beyond the course –

Greg White (46:28):

The real online people.

Scott Luton (46:28):

Yes. Not this late Johnny [inaudible] version. But, Keith, your team works overdrive beyond your core services that you offer and creating these other value added ways to, you know, better inform your customers and buyers and the whole nine yards. That’s really an important aspect of y’all’s approach to business. Huh?

Keith Andrey (46:53):

Yeah. I think, you know, over the last 20 years, we’ve kind of like built this really comprehensive portfolio products and we’re best when we bundle the two together. So, really good brokerage connectivity with transportation provides a really good service for the customers. There’s other ones too. Preferred LCL is another example. We take LCL into the country and then we do my domestic air freight operation, connects, picks it up at the port and then accelerates the final mile. So, you know, one of the comments was east coast to west coast. There’s a solution. You know, if you get it out of the hands of the rail and get it out of the hands of trucking and put it into the domestic air freight business market that we have, and then it moves as a priority three days from the port out to a point in the U.S. So we like to bundle those services together. You know, obviously it’s an advantage for us ‘cause we have this portfolio to do that. But we’re moving more and more into trying to look for opportunities to take the parts of the good of the whole, combine it together, and build something better for customers on a solution-by-solution basis. And I think that’s where we’re at, especially when it’s volatile and unpredictable. You have to come up with those kind of new opportunities solutions for customers.

Scott Luton (48:13):

Keith, I’m glad you shared that ‘cause, Greg, as sometimes I have a habit of doing, I jumped over a couple of questions I had for Keith and one of them was better understanding what UPS does when it comes to the freight forwarding space. And, Keith, you were just speaking to that a bit. And, you know, goodness, when we were sitting here talking with Keith, quite an SME and a guru here when it comes to getting stuff where it needs to be. But, Keith, what else would you add? You know, folks that may be new to that aspect of UPS. You know, not too many folks that are new to UPS. But that component of what you do, what else would you add to that, Keith?

Keith Andrey (48:52):

Yeah. I mean, we continually invest in industry segments. We just announced this morning we’re purchasing a company in Europe, Bomi. I think it is international and the Bomi Group and that is for our healthcare logistics build op that we’ve been doing over the last couple years within our products or within our company. That’s an additional access, 14 countries, 350 vehicles, 3000 employees, that we’re going to be adding in, really to support healthcare and specific healthcare supply chain logistics. So, you’re going to see more of that from us going forward. Well, you know, how do we build out really important industry segments as we really want to move what matters to our customers and, you know, that becomes areas like healthcare and some of the other businesses we do and support that. So, those are areas we’re going to be investing in going forward as a complement.

Scott Luton (49:53):

Keith, congrats, congrats on the deal this morning. You’re talking Greg’s language when it comes to that, for sure. And, Greg, we were part of a fascinating – speaking of healthcare – healthcare discussion with the UPS team as they were kind of in the thick of the noble mission of getting the –

Greg White (50:13):

Vaccine out.

Keith Andrey (50:15):

Vaccines.

Scott Luton (50:15):

Yeah. Thank you. Vaccine out globally. That was a really neat conversation. But, Greg, what else, based on what Keith shared there and kind of where the UPS team’s going, what they’re investing in or what they do when it comes to freight forwarding, your thoughts, Greg.

Greg White (50:32):

Yeah. Well, I mean, that is a great awakening because I honestly hadn’t really thought of transferring into an aircraft. I know that sounds dumb. I don’t do this every day, Keith. You might not have noticed that. But, I mean, it makes perfect sense if you need to get it from east to west and you need to do so rapidly instead of putting it on a truck, put it on an aircraft. I’m curious, Keith, how are you fixed for air ports near the Georgia Inland Port? Or do you guys use that port?

Keith Andrey (51:07):

Yeah. So, what we’ll do is, we bring it in LCL container. We’ll break it down, split out the standard LCL from the preferred LCL. The preferred LCL will get recovered, brought into the closest hub we have. And then, from there it’ll be entered into our air freight network. Some of it rides in the air, some of it’ll ride in the dedicated truck system we have for our deferred product. And that’s kind of how the product moves within our network itself. So, you know, our air freight or our deferred network, which is like a three-day network, rides on the road. So the majority of it’ll end up there. Every once in a while, we’ll actually put it on a plane itself.

Greg White (51:51):

Very cool.

Scott Luton (51:51):

Interesting. We got to get a tour of some of these facilities, especially related to air cargo, Keith. We have to make that happen at a later date. But –

Greg White (52:01):

I got a tour of the parcel, of a couple of parcel facilities when some buddies of mine in college we’re working there and making a bundle by the way. I mean, you know, tough hours, Keith. I’m sure you’ve seen it if not done it. It’s hard work, but, man, and this was frankly in the ‘80s and the efficiency for the timeframe was incredible. So, it’s amazing what these facilities can do these days.

Keith Andrey (52:32):

Yeah. I think hub Worldport is a fantastic opportunity to see it. You know, the planes start lining up at, you know, 10, 11 o’clock at night and they all land and take off by three. It’s a crazy period of five hours we’re seeing if you get an opportunity to see how freight moves [inaudible].

Greg White (52:50):

It’s got to be a YouTube channel for it, don’t you think?

Keith Andrey (52:53):

There’s probably something you could search and find in there.

Greg White (52:56):

Don’t you think? I mean, there’s got to be. There’s one for everything. Yeah.

Scott Luton (52:59):

Yeah. Supply chain symphony undoubtedly, supply chain symphony. Folks, we did drop the links to the resources that me and Keith touched on earlier, UPS Supply Chain News and Insights. So y’all check that out. And we also dropped, for the email subscription, if you want to sign up to that. So it’s delivered to your inbox. All right. So, Keith, as we start to wrap up your time here today, really have enjoyed it. We kind of had a wide, a broad conversation from, you know, air cargo, of course, to international policy making and trade, and even a dose, a little touch of the economic conditions. But if folks want to get involved in the squash supply chain since that’s also an area that you’re getting into, kidding aside, if folks want to, you know, compare notes with you, connect with you, connect with your team, how would you suggest that happens?

Keith Andrey (53:55):

Yeah. I think the best thing to do is probably hit my LinkedIn. It’s the best way to do it if they want to connect and then there’s a group that’s on there that shares regularly, obviously looking for content [inaudible] a lot of sales, but, you know, [inaudible] through that when it happens. But that’s one way to reach out, connect and then start there.

Scott Luton (54:18):

So that you said it very nicely, Keith. You said it really nicely. Greg, give us a straight, if you’re trying to sell something, don’t send one of those LinkedIn emails. Is that right, Greg?

Greg White (54:30):

Right in the garbage.

Scott Luton (54:32):

Right in the garbage. That’s right. But Keith, I’m sure, and his team clearly are well connected, making it happen every day, do welcome industry conversations I imagine. Okay. Keith, had a pleasure chatting with you today. Me and Greg had a blast. One final question and then we’re going to bid you ado. What’s the next, as you break your bike out, ‘cause it’s, you know, it’ll be nice, crisp, you know, I’m wishful thinking, but it’s going to be nice, crisp early fall weather soon, very wishful thinking. What’s one of the next trips you’ve got for the bike, thinking about?

Keith Andrey (55:09):

Well, unfortunately the bike can go for eight hours but me on the bike can only go for about two hours. So, if you plow up the distance from my house to the closest drinking establishment with two hours out, that’s about as far as that radius goes, you know, around that.

Scott Luton (55:24):

Hey, keeping at home in a backyard. I love that.

Greg White (55:28):

Really good barbecue in a two hour, right, or whatever. Yeah.

Scott Luton (55:33):

Barbecue at the farmer’s market and a quick adult beverage and call it a day, Keith. Well, Keith, always a pleasure. We look forward to having you back and enjoyed talking with a lot of members of the UPS team just about on monthly basis here at Supply Chain Now. But big thanks to Keith Andrey, President of UPS, U.S. Operations and Freight Forwarding. Keith, we’ll see you again soon.

Greg White (55:55):

Yeah. Thanks, Keith.

Keith Andrey (55:57):

Thanks guys. Thanks, Greg, Scott.

Scott Luton (55:58):

You bet. All right, Greg, man, it was certainly a wide range in conversation with Keith. I think he could weigh in and inform us on a wide variety of topics. Huh?

Greg White (56:13):

Well, he’s doing the doing, not just for UPS, but think about how many companies UPS interacts with. So, yeah, of course, he sees what’s operating every day and clearly is keeping it, I mean, as president, he’s keeping abreast of what’s going on in the macro environment, in the political environment, in the international environment that can impact that. I think that’s really important. Look, I think we, as supply chain practitioners globally, have become aware of all these influences because of one predominant influence and the subsequent shock and aftershocks that have been placed on the supply chain and now we have this incredible visibility. We cannot hide anymore. Right?

Scott Luton (56:56):

That’s right.

Greg White (56:57):

I think we may have gotten a little more visibility than we were ready for, really, really fast. But, look, people in supply chain are resilient and Keith shows that. He’s got a broad range perspective, but he’s getting the getting done every single day as well.

Scott Luton (57:14):

Well said, Greg. Steven, yes, the replay will be available across social in just an hour or two. And then, we’ll drop the podcast, the audio replay on our global podcast, RSS feed. So, Steven, you will be able to engage in the full conversation there for sure.

Greg White (57:30):

And you can ask the questions. If you do it in LinkedIn, you can ask the questions in the commentary for the video, right?

Scott Luton (57:38):

Well said.

Greg White (57:39):

We’re on YouTube. Yeah.

Scott Luton (57:41):

And, Steven, since you’re asking, you may have missed the resources so check out the links in the chat. We’re mainly focused on – let’s see, I want to get this name right. It’s UPS Supply Chain Insights. So it’s a broad range of different resources to help keep customers and prospective customers alike informed and in the note. Okay. So, Greg, always a pleasure. Keith hit a home run like we knew he would here today. I have enjoyed his perspective and him weighing in on things. Enjoy having these conversations with you. We should say big thanks to the production team, Amanda, Clay, Chantel, Katherine, you name it. They all help us make today’s show, shows like today, happen. Big thanks to everyone that showed up in the comments. Big thanks to our guest, Keith and the whole UPS team. Greg, but if our listeners take anything away, hey, it’s time to act. Deeds not words. Acting on the information. You heard Keith drop here and all the folks on the comments. On behalf of our entire team, Scott Luton signing off for now, challenging you, all of our listeners, to do good, to give forward, and to be the change. And with that said, we’ll see next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Intro/Outro (58:51):

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