Scott Luton (00:12):

Good morning, Scott Luton here with you on this edition of this week in business history. Welcome to today’s show on this program, which is part of the supply chain. Now family of programming. We take a look back at the upcoming week, and then we share some of the most relevant events and milestones from years past, of course, mostly business focused with a little dab global supply chain. And occasionally we might just throw in a good story outside of our primary realm. So I invite you to join me on this. Look back in history to identify some of the most significant leaders, companies, innovations, and perhaps lessons learned in our collective business journey. Now let’s dive in to this week in business history. Hey, good morning, Scott Luton, Kelly Barner with you here on our first, this week in business history, live Kelly. My timing was thrown off a little bit there. I wasn’t sure to what to expect with that new intro. How about you?

Kelly Barner (01:27):

That new intro was amazing. There are so many things in that that I wanna go back and watch love the appearance of the rotary phone. Of course saw several in there. I’m sure those people were dialing P even way back then, but that was fantastic.

Scott Luton (01:42):

It really was well big. Thanks. You know, we, we gotta start off with thanking the production team, brilliant production team, all the great work they do, right?

Kelly Barner (01:50):

Absolutely know the team is the best in the business. We say it over and over again, and it remains as true as ever.

Scott Luton (01:57):

Well, you know, I’m gonna, you know, I’m a transparent and authentic type, right? Very genuine. And I’m gonna share a little moment with you here, Kelly <laugh> because

Kelly Barner (02:06):

This work, wait a minute, this sounds risky. It just, is this a good idea?

Scott Luton (02:10):

I don’t know. It just dawned on me. I had the wrong runner show pulled up. I was set to ask Enrique how he was doing and I’m like, I’m not doing a live stream with Enrique. It’s the one only Kelly Barner. So I’ve got that fixed now. So, alright. What are we doing here? Well, Kelly, this is gonna be so cool. You know, some folks may know that we’ve been producing our, this week in business history podcast for a couple years now. That’s right. Kelly, it’s been one, it’s become one of about a dozen programs that make up the supply chain now portfolio, uh, you and I and the production team, uh, big thanks, Amanda. And, uh, Catherine and Chantel and clay and, and, and, and then some, uh, but we’ve all together recently published our hundred second episode, 102 episodes. Kelly.

Kelly Barner (02:52):

That is absolutely incredible. And this is one of those labors of love for you. And I that’s true, right? We can script the rest of the team into the labor, but for you and I, the history thing is this is such pure joy to get to talk about this. We love procurement. We love supply chain, but this is sort of like bringing our personal passions and hobby into the work that we do.

Scott Luton (03:12):

That’s right. Well said, well said. And you know, as we’ve learned and have, have come to better understand the podcast industry going back, you know, five years or so, there’s some 2.8 million podcasts out there, which is a great thing, right? It’s, it’s a low barrier to get in and, and share what your passions are. Right. But unfortunately just kind of hate with the way the numbers in the math work out. Most of those podcasts don’t get past 12 episodes because of how time consuming and resource, you know, the energy and yeah. You know, how tough it can be to monetize. So to make it 102 episodes, big thanks to our entire team. And of course to you, because Kelly, as I like to say, we really upped our game when we brought you on board about a year or so ago as a fellow co-host and you know, it has been a really a blast ever since, right?

Kelly Barner (04:04):

It’s been fantastic. And I think to your point about the 12 episodes, people don’t necessarily appreciate in a typical interview format podcast, how much work is required, but you and I, and the team know that for something research based like this week in business history, it is hours of research and creative work and writing, and then the recording that actually goes into making it possible. So super exciting. We’ve made it to 1 0 2.

Scott Luton (04:31):

Agreed, agreed. And, and you know, to continue this theme of transparency, lots of full Sundays, uh, just in time, right? That cause as we that’s right, were publishing on Monday. And then we, we moved Tuesday, give ourselves a little more time, lots of very full Sunday afternoons that went into, uh, the research and the writing and all. So anyway, speaking of our team here, Catherine is tuned in. Great to see you. Amanda is here with us. Of course, clay Phillips is here with us. Love what they’re doing. Of course, Chantelle is back with us. Hey, Shelly Phillips is tuned in, hello, Shelly, Shelly, I’m gonna have you here today. Looking forward to all of y’all’s comments on the stories that Kelly and I are gonna work through over the next hour. So really quick. So this is a brand new aspect to our business history programming.

Scott Luton (05:15):

We’ve gotta abbreviate the title a little bit sometimes. In fact, I’m sure there’s an acronym out there. That’s easier to roll off the tongue than T w I B H we’ll work on that, but we’re gonna be going live every other week, right? To offer up this new engaging participatory thing. I got that word right format. Cause we want to hear from you. And then in the weeks between these live streams and the, and the live stream replays, we’re gonna continue the beautiful story writing that Kelly has been bringing to the table and, and those types of, you know, 10 to 20 minute Solilo we type, uh, episodes with with wonderful stories. So, Hey, we welcome your, uh, participation in this experiment with us here. So Kelly, with all of that said, are we ready to dive right in?

Kelly Barner (05:59):

Absolutely we are.

Scott Luton (06:00):

Okay, wonderful. So we’re gonna be sharing five Kelly and I are gonna be sharing five interesting historical moments that really have some kind of tie in to this week. And what I wanna start with here is a familiar face and name for many folks, many Americans, especially Jimmy Dean here was born in Plainview, Texas on August 10th, 1928. Now Kelly, he passed away on June 13th, 2010. So that, so 12 years ago this week, so many folks may know that he was a successful singer, TV host, an actor spokesperson and more Kelly. Have you ever seen the Jimmy Dean TV show or hear any of his music?

Kelly Barner (06:43):

So I have heard some of his music. I’m more familiar with the more modern Jimmy Dean advertising, which is a huge favorite in my house. Yep. But how do you not love sausage?

Scott Luton (06:53):

How right I I’m with you. I’m

Kelly Barner (06:56):

I’m with you. I’m just for dinner girl. Like I will eat eggs and sausage and potatoes all day long. <laugh>

Scott Luton (07:01):

Well, that’s interesting you share that cause I’m gonna circle back and, and dive in deeper to what what’s going on in the Barner household when it comes to breakfast. All right. So Jimmy Dean and like what killer was just saying, we grew up eating Jimmy Dean’s sausage and products, but I never understood the connection, the real connection. You know, I, I was thinking it was more of just a endorsed spokesperson type deal. But as the story goes, Jimmy Dean would call himself the biggest morning person who ever walked the earth. Unlike all three of my kids, Kelly, and even their mother. But you didn’t hear me say that. Just kidding. Love you. <laugh>. So one morning Jimmy was sitting in a diner in his hometown of Plainview, Texas, and with his brother, Don, cause that’s what breakfasts are for right eat with your family and, and Jimmy bit into a big piece of Grizzle in his breakfast. Sausage, you ever done that, Kelly?

Kelly Barner (07:54):

Yes. That’s disgusting.

Scott Luton (07:56):

<laugh> there’s a reason. It is. There’s a reason why you don’t want to know how the sausage is made. Cause you don’t wanna buy stuff like that’s. So he, after, after that really bad experience, he turned to his brother and said, Hey, there’s gotta be a better way to make higher quality sausage. So that was not just lip service over probably a really bad cup of coffee and, and clearly a really bad piece of sausage. He went, he took it to action. So 1969, Jimmy Dean founded the Jimmy Dean meat company. Never knew this. So the company did really well, at least in part because they obviously had a natural, genuine and likable sport spokesperson representing the company in commercials. Kelly, you were just talking about that, right?

Kelly Barner (08:37):

Absolutely.

Scott Luton (08:38):

He doesn’t take him to itself too seriously. He he’s got a great view on life and of course he’s got lot. He, he he’s lots of t-shirt isms. Jimmy Dean likes to Dole out. Right. But the products were also well received by the market. It really took off so much. So that 1984, the Sara Lee corporation that most folks are aware of bought the Jimmy Dean meat company for some 80 million. I wonder what $80 million is in 2022 terms. Kelly, you think our production team could, could see what that conversion is from 18, from 1984

Kelly Barner (09:12):

Feeling they can.

Scott Luton (09:14):

So let’s check that out from 1984, 80 million in 1984. Let’s let’s see if we, we can get a figure of what that is worth here in 2022 and not in Bitcoin that throw off all the math. No,

Kelly Barner (09:25):

No more Bitcoin talk about history.

Scott Luton (09:27):

Right? Right. So Jimmy Dean though. So he sold in 1984, Jimmy Dean would ultimately be phased out of management duties and spokesperson duties all together by 2002, 2002. Now the company now goes by the brand Jimmy Dean, just like the plain brand. It’s not a meat company, not in sauces company, just Jimmy Dean. And it’s now part of the Tyson foods portfolio of companies. Now Kelly you’re you’re really, it’s like you knew exactly where I was going because in 2018, as you were alluding to the company, reintroduced Jimmy Dean’s voiceovers to the commercials and they really like you. I rank them up there. I love Publix’s commercials, right. Especially on the holiday time, but man, I love how they’re they’re working. Jimmy Dean’s voiceovers in some of his views on life into these breakfast commercials. It’s really, it is a, a work of art I believe finally.

Scott Luton (10:22):

And I wanna get your take. But finally Jimmy Dean was, as we’re alluding to was well known for his quick wit sense of humor, his depre self deprecation. In fact, I didn’t capture it. So I’m gonna have to paraphrase Kelly. He said, if you ever see my act, as he was being asked why he started a, his company, the meat company, he, his response was, well, if you ever see my act, you’ll see that I have a strong need to diversify. So really making fun of, of who he was anyway, probably his be most well known. Quote is you can’t change the direction of the wind, but you can adjust your sales to always reach your destination. So Kelly, did you, did you ever do that side of the Jimmy Dean story?

Kelly Barner (11:05):

I did not know that side of the Jimmy Dean story. I do love the commercials that come on. I can hear the little sort of jingle in my head, although no will not sing it. I like when his voice comes in over the, but I do have to admit Scott, my absolute favorite, Jimmy Dean commercials are the ones with big Mr. Sunshine. You know, the guy’s wearing like the big sort of mascot costume thing. And he is like Mr. Sun, those commercials are absolutely hysterical. The other thing that is so critical, and I know this is breakfast sausage, but I have a fabulous meatloaf recipe. People are welcome to message me for it. Okay. The number one secret ingredient that makes the biggest difference is putting breakfast sausage in for part of the Hamburg, because the grind is finer. And I have a feeling that may result from Mr. Dean’s experience with that bit of gristle that snuck through.

Scott Luton (11:58):

Yeah. Interesting. Hey, let’s all get Kelly’s recipe. We’re gonna be talking about recipes later in the show. And one that went viral in the early, before viral was a thing, but I love that Kelly, you know what? I’m a big fan of meatloaf mm-hmm <affirmative> and there’s some folks think it’s boring. I could eat meatloaf twice a week. Like nobody’s business really quick, Chantel. Hey Chantel. Welcome. Good morning. Great to have you here, Catherine. Hey, I agree with you. That is such a great quote because it really, to me, it speaks to, and Kelly Love your tape for me, it speaks to look. There’s so many things out of your control, right? That’s that’s life, but man, the things that you’ve got in your control take advantage of it, right? Don’t be a victim, you know, put your, you know, trust, trust your fate in life, to what you can control and go to it. Amanda’s a big fan of, I like the new Jimmy Dean commercials with the whiffs of breakfast cooking that wakes up everyone in the house. She also wants that meatloaf recipe. Catherine would like, Hey, gluten free meatloaf. I gotta have recipe.

Kelly Barner (12:58):

It is see Catherine and I are like totally connected on the gluten free thing. Yes, it is not a gluten free recipe. I translated it a little bit, very minor changes and it completely works. So absolutely both Catherine and Amanda put meatloaf on the menu in your houses.

Scott Luton (13:15):

Love it. And clay is representing Greg White’s POV here today. He loves Jimmy Dean. And that makes a lot of sense. You know, Jimmy Dean grew up in Midwest. Of course, Greg grew up in Wichita, which we’re gonna touch on here in a minute. But one last thing, you know, I’m, I am a simpleton when it comes to breakfast, Kelly and I don’t eat sausage as much as I used to. But one of my favorite go-tos is, you know, the sausage patties. Yes. You know, throw those in the oven, put ’em on a rack. So the grease can drop down. Right? So it’s a little bit healthier. And then you toast a couple plain pieces of, of bread. And then you put the sausage and mustard between two slices of bread, toasted bread. And you’ve got the breakfast of champions, which not only I believe is breakfast champions, but it’s a great segue to story. Number two, Kelly Barner. So are you ready to move Jimmy D I’m ready to, we’re gonna be talking about Wheaties. Tell us more Kelly.

Kelly Barner (14:11):

So most of us grew up with this sort of expression. You’ve gotta eat your Wheaties. And the Wheaties box is also famous for several marketing things that we will talk about. Of course, we’ve got Muhammad Ali here. They’ve always put some famous sports figures. They were sort of a pioneering marketer from that perspective. Right. But the reason that I really like Wheaties and the reason we’re gonna talk about it today goes all the way back to the beginning. So George Cormick on June 17th, 1870, he gets credit for creating Wheaties. I’m giving you air quotes for anybody listening in later, it’s probably a, a bad podcast tactic <laugh>, but he’s not actually the inventor. So someone else whose name has been lost to history accidentally invented Wheaties by dropping a little bit of Groe kitchen when the hit the skillet, it sort of sizzled and turned into a little flag.

Kelly Barner (15:12):

Okay. And so this dietician thought, okay, maybe there’s potential here. Now, one of the things I love most about history is the weird stuff. So back in the 1920s, there was sort of this bizarre health nutritional revolution going on. This is when all the serial companies were starting to get big. People were starting to understand that not only eating wheat was good for you, right? But this idea about brand again. Mm bra <laugh>. And so it took them a very long time to formulate these flakes in such a way that they were healthy. They could be mass produced and that people would actually buy them. So they were initially brought to market. It was George Cormick that actually made them commercially viable and people were not interested. So this is where we start to get into the marketing. They brought in sports figures, although the first sports figure actually didn’t figure until 1958. Okay. So that was a little bit later in history, but much earlier than that, the very first song or jingle in a radio commercial was for wheat’s really? Yes. They pioneered that. So not only did they figure out how to make a healthy, palatable, commercially viable breakfast cereal, but they also were Mavericks from a marketing standpoint. And that jingle was really part of what helped the cereal brands take off and get people to, to try it and start eating it. And it’s, it’s still made today.

Scott Luton (16:44):

Wow. Well, you know, anytime I hear about wits, I think about, you know, Kelly, we used to go into schools a couple years ago for a couple years and talk supply chain, right? One of our favorite topics mutually to talk about, we had a supply chain, one, one program, and on the front end of this, of these sessions with third, fourth and fifth graders, I would all, I would at least initially I’d start off by saying, okay, everybody y’all eat your weeders. Cause Weedies cause we got a lot of stuff to get through. And I got all these glazed overlooks. These kids, many of them had never heard of Weedies and clearly weren’t eating Weedies. So I had to Kelly, one of my 17 references I had to update, right. I had to go to pop tars or something else, but Wheaties is still as, as we both know, iconic and I love the way they’ve used. I mean, is there really a serial that has used their front of the box in, in a more iconic, strategic massively branded way? I mean, really?

Kelly Barner (17:41):

I don’t think so. And the only other thing that came to mind when I was rereading this story, anybody that’s about our age, Scott probably grew up watching some of the best clips of the funniest phase of Saturday night live. And there is a, a Jim Belushi skit where he’s sort of like the anti Wheaties and it’s actually these little chocolate donuts in a box <laugh> that looks just like Wheaties. And of course he’s not necessarily got an Olympic physique, but he’s out there sort of doing these track and field events. And then at the end, he’s talking about his championships and how he’s performed in eating his Wheaties and he’s smoking cigarette while he’s eating the chocolate big bowl of, of chocolate donuts. So not legit, but I think that’s a very close second in terms of societal impact and staying power are those Saturday night live mock com. You’re not real until you’re mocked. Right? Right. So that, that tells us how impactful the Wheaties box front is.

Scott Luton (18:39):

I love it. Of course, Jim Belushi, one of the all time rates going way too soon, Saturday night live man. That’s some of our favorite moments. I was just looking at Chris Farley. Yeah. In some of his greatest clips, man. Okay. So we’ve got a quick update to give from our incredible production team. So that $80 million Kelly that going back to our first thing that Jimmy Dean sold in 1984 for 80 million as Jimmy Dean meat company that he built from the ground up, that’s worth about 225 million. Wow. In 20, $22. And if you blink, it might be worth like 400, the way things are going, uh, right. And this inflation economy that’s right. Okay. So are you ready to move right along?

Kelly Barner (19:23):

I am ready to move right along.

Scott Luton (19:25):

All right. So we’re gonna go actually, hang on a sec, hang on second. I got a question for you and all the folks that are tuned in all of them, thousands and thousands of folks around the world tuned in for this week in business history live. Right? So questions there is growing up. What was your favorite cereal or breakfast item? Kelly.

Kelly Barner (19:48):

So we were definitely a cereal household, not a crazy nutritious cereal household. Like I don’t think we were eating total raisin brand. We weren’t eating Weedies but we also weren’t real high on the sugar index. Assuming that’s a thing. I actually didn’t have captain crunch until I got to college.

Scott Luton (20:03):

Oh man.

Kelly Barner (20:04):

So that’s a, that’s a good one. But I would say there were three things you could always count on there being in my house. And, and when my mom watches this on demand, she will validate this corn FLAS rice crispies, right. And original Cheerios. Okay. Those were the three staples, blueberry pop tarts until she figured out they probably weren’t as healthy as the fruit idea would suggest. But those three cereals were an absolute staple of what was in my house. And they were many bowls of those eaten before running out to catch the bus.

Scott Luton (20:34):

Okay, man, that was a really healthy upbringing. Kelly really healthy, plain,

Kelly Barner (20:39):

Most as healthy as sausage with mustard, still confused about why there’s no egg in your breakfast of champions. <laugh> did I miss? It was egg under the sausage and

Scott Luton (20:49):

You know, I’m

Kelly Barner (20:50):

By the mustard.

Scott Luton (20:51):

I’m very particular about eggs. What can I say, Amanda kind of points it out. Most of the time I gotta eat scrambled eggs. Okay. Before I eat a, a fried egg, but by itself, I don’t like it on sandwiches. It’s just strange like that. But plain Cheerios, man. I grew up on honey nut Cheerios because it was healthy. And, but what I really loved is fruit pebbles. Right? I could eat free. I could eat like massive bowl of fruity pebbles right now. My kids don’t get it. But man, I love that cats. They really

Kelly Barner (21:21):

Don’t.

Scott Luton (21:23):

They don’t get it. They don’t like it. You know? I don’t know captain crunch, Barry, you said you didn’t get captain crunch until you got in college. You gotta, you gotta protect the roof of your mouth when you that stuff. Yes. Captain crunch. Barry is delicious Lego waffles, man, Lego waffles with a little bit of butter and, and syrup and toaster SRUs, which I don’t like anymore. But as a kid, I would eat toaster strudels. Have you ever had a toaster strudel?

Kelly Barner (21:47):

I have not had a toaster STLE, but I feel like I need to ask what flavor

Scott Luton (21:52):

<laugh> so, uh, let’s see here. What flavor? Cherry and blueberry were my go-tos and I like cherry a lot better in blueberry, but I don’t, you know, I don’t really like the flakiness of the toaster strudel as an adult, but as a kid. Okay man. Almost every day.

Kelly Barner (22:05):

Well as a kid, you’re not the one cleaning up the table. So what difference does it make? How flaky and messy it is?

Scott Luton (22:10):

<laugh> that’s true. Well said. Good point. Let’s see here. Catherine says I wasn’t big on cereal, but I did eat a lot of grits as a kid cheese grits. I’m asking a question, Kathryn, for me, man. There’s there’s, there’s very little, uh, in life that are simple and delicious as a great bowl of cheese, grits. Kelly, have you ever had cheese? Grits?

Kelly Barner (22:31):

I actually have had cheese grits and I can say I have had respectable cheese grits because I have eaten them in South Carolina. So I think, oh man, this isn’t like pretend Northern my cousin Vinnie, fake artificial instant grits. This is like full South Carolina butter cheese. They are excellent.

Scott Luton (22:50):

You know, I love that movie. My cousin Vinnie is one of my favorite. Me and Amanda, both one of our favorite movies of all time. Peche what’s Pei’s first name? Um, Joe. Yeah, Joe Peche. Thank you. Amanda’s yelling at me around the corner. Joe Peche is like the perfect character in that movie. And then really the rest of the movie. There’s so many wonderful character actors in that movie, Kelly. Right?

Kelly Barner (23:12):

That’s right. Marisa tome is amazing in that and no self-respecting southerner. It’s instant grits.

Scott Luton (23:20):

<laugh> you know, record. Speaking of Marisa, tome, that scene in that movie where she become, she is the automotive expert and she has to prove it. That is one of it is one of the great scene. I mean, there’s so many in that movie that that really still gets us after the, you know, 3000 time of watching it. But of course, what is a grit? Yeah, the daughter. Okay. Let’s see here says she liked plain cereals too. Checks, crisp picks. Oh, I hated crisp picks plain Cheerios. She ate a lot of bagels and grits too. GI gimme car hashtag gimme carbs. She says, I still love toaster. Stroodles uh, she says our kids do too. Hey, I didn’t even know how about that. Katherine says crumble, little bacon in this cheese grits, even better. And Chantel is a big fan of toaster stroodles as well.

Scott Luton (24:10):

Looks like the auto crack. It’s getting all of us outta toaster stroodles and wish they gave you more icing Chantel. You know, my 10 year old self would be you, you would I’d be like same preach it, preach it lighter for the folks in the back. Always ran out of icing Kelly in that very unhealthy breakfast. Okay. So Kelly let’s move right along because we’ve, we’ve got to get into sort of the theme for the first two items here on this week in business history live was obviously breakfast, right? We, I think we collectively, we took a walk through, you know, the 1980s, all of us did, but the second half, the next three items are really gonna be the main theme. There is staples of your childhood sleepover. We’re gonna be talking pizza, video games and cookies in ways that they all relate to business history this week.

Scott Luton (25:05):

So we’re gonna talk next about one of my favorite things in the whole entire world pizza. Now this here is the birthplace of pizza hut and I’m gonna circle back on that side here in a second. But Kelly, on June 15th, 1958, pizza hut is founded in Wichita, Kansas home of Greg white and many others, two brothers Dan and Frank Carney borrowed 600 bucks from their mom to open a beer and pizza joint. And in fact, as some of the stories go, it was a landlord that needed something to go into an unrented place. And that’s what prompted them to go ahead and, and take a flyer on it. They had very limited room for letters on the sign. Look at that sign. <laugh> I’m assuming that maybe Pepsi was one of their first business deals. So that had to go on there. And then what do you fit in the rest of that space that can be seen from, you know, the sidewalk and the street pizza had to be in it. So could you imagine how they had to brainstorm? Cause what else? You know, finger hut, I think is the only company I can think of that it has hut in the name. Can you think of another one?

Kelly Barner (26:14):

I can’t and it’s not like we talk about, we use the word hut a lot. Right? Right. Very few of us, even in today’s real estate market are, you know, shopping around for a nice hut Morgan too.

Scott Luton (26:26):

Right. You’re so true. But they had to find something that worked and it fit on the sign and there, it was a very succinct name, pizza hut. Well, it took off right away. In fact, in six months they had a second location. By 12 months, they had six restaurants and less than two years from the time they started the business, they began franchising less than 20 years after starting pizza hut, Kelly, Dan and Frank Carney sold the business to PepsiCo. Like I didn’t find a dollar figure there, but I bet it was for a healthy, healthy sum. And of, you know, two brothers Dan got out of the pizza industry altogether. He went on to lead a very successful venture capitalist career. And he also did a ton of philanthropy. Frank though, would be a big investor in 1997 in Papa Johns. Oh,

Kelly Barner (27:16):

Interesting.

Scott Luton (27:16):

Yes. And he would eventually be one of the biggest franchisees of 130 locations. Do you know Kelly, one of the things that, and I’ll drop this image again, that that is the first original pizza hut in Wichita, Kansas. Do you know one of the things that after the Carney sold the business that happened that really got Frank’s goat a little bit?

Kelly Barner (27:40):

Well, I know that there are all of these very sort of disruptive stories in, in food history. There have been a lot of these that have come up, but I don’t know the pizza hut one.

Scott Luton (27:49):

Well, so PepsiCo moved the headquarters from Wichita to Dallas and that was, that went against what Dan wanted to do or, or Frank wanted to do. And he, that kind of gave him a, some incentive to jump back into the pizza hut by the pizza business, but with a different brand. So, but speaking of pizza companies, Kelly, according to some reports, dominoes has become the largest pizza chain in the whole world. They overtook, according at least one source I saw they overtook pizza hut in 2021. Now that leads me to my next question. And I’d love for you to weigh in. I’d love for all the folks in our sky boxes, in the comments weigh in, in the Barner household. What is your favorite? Your family’s favorite chain based pizza?

Kelly Barner (28:40):

So we are a little bit limited because I have to be able to eat it. So we are a Domino’s household. They do offer a pretty good gluten free crust. So I can least eat what everybody else is eating. I will say the cheese bread and the garlic knots sort of put them over the top. That’s sort of like the passion play that gets everybody really excited, right? And the amount of butter that is sitting on that little wax paper after all the food is gone, that is amazing. You have to carry the box very carefully out to the garage so that you don’t leave a trail of butter behind you. But yes, we are a Domino’s household.

Scott Luton (29:18):

Well, you know, it’s interesting cause dominoes in my view, and of course they’ve marketed, it they’ve really gotten a whole lot better in the last couple years. They’ve kind of reinvented their pizza recipes and, and you know, we’ve order more dominoes than, than maybe I ever have in my whole life. But that thin and crispy pizza hut pizza with pepperoni and jalapenos, holy cow, Kelly. I could eat that. Sadly. I could eat that every day. <laugh> against my doctor’s wishes for sure. But it is really just that good. It’s that crispy, you know, it’s not New York style, but it’s that crispy? That crunch. Oh man. So good sunglasses hut. So there’s another some third hut. So pizza hut, finger hut and sunglasses hut. But I’ll be darn. I couldn’t think of anything else. No. To your point. Cause hut hasn’t really been part of our, of the lexicon beyond these, maybe these three brands, at least

Kelly Barner (30:09):

I think without them, the word would be gone.

Scott Luton (30:11):

I agree with you. Amanda says, I used to love getting Papa Johns for the garlic butter dipping sauce alone, man. We’re gonna have to get pizza tonight, Kelly,

Kelly Barner (30:22):

But wait a minute. Yes, we can get pizza. I need to know this cuz there’s a very big question that goes with pizza.

Scott Luton (30:28):

Yes.

Kelly Barner (30:29):

Pineapple or no pineapple people get very worked up about, are you a no pineapple person?

Scott Luton (30:37):

Nope. Not, not just no pineapple, but how in the world does chicken and pineapple go together on pizza of all things? I don’t get it.

Kelly Barner (30:44):

Oh Nope. I am sorry to inform you. You are very wrong. As a matter of fact, just this past weekend out on the Cape, we had a Lou owl, pizza, chicken, ham, jalapeno and pineapple. Oh man. You all are missing out

Scott Luton (30:59):

The Cape. The Cape. That sounds Cape. Yes. Kennedyesque living a life luxury. I love that. Kelly. We gotta have pictures. Did you have really cool shades and have things kind of wrapped around that, that, that tide right there, you know,

Kelly Barner (31:14):

Like a two year old, like a sun phone

Scott Luton (31:16):

<laugh> I’m think of those glamor shots, you know, from the sixties as folks had the really fashionable shades and then they’d kind of wrap their, their hair up in the uh, oh

Kelly Barner (31:25):

No, the Cape is very chill. The Cape is where people go not to dress fancy.

Scott Luton (31:30):

Okay. Okay. You learn something every day. By the way Amanda says team, no pineapple Kelly. And she says she’s so sad. Gotta kick Kelly off the live stream for pizza choices. <laugh> that’s so funny. We were, I was with some friends last weekend and we were talking about Showtime at the Apollo long running. I think it’s still on. I used to used to watch it a lot when I was younger and there is speaking, Kelly’s getting a hook. There was they’re notorious for when a comedian or a singer or one of the acts was going downhill. They would get either hooked or, or really swept off the stage. And it was really man, probably really embarrassing for a lot of those folks, but really funny for the folks tuned in. All right. One, one final question, Kelly, about pizza, then we’re gonna move on. What’s your favorite mom and pop pizza shop.

Kelly Barner (32:20):

So my favorite mom and pop right here in Shrewsbury. Mass is Dean park pizza. Not only do they have an excellent gluten free crust, but they have these super cool pizzas. I don’t know if this is gonna pass your squeamish pizza taste. Okay. But they have a very cool pizza that actually has a salad on top of it. So you get, it’s a cheese pizza and they basically build a Greek salad on top of the pizza. Okay. It’s amazing.

Scott Luton (32:46):

All right, I’m gonna check it out. I’m gonna check it out. Does the lettuce wilt though?

Kelly Barner (32:50):

Doesn’t work so well for leftovers, but first run. No way cold and crispy. The hot on the cold. There was really no better way to, to eat pizza than with a salad on top plus that makes it like diet food.

Scott Luton (33:02):

That’s right. Sign me

Kelly Barner (33:03):

Up. Put some leaves on it.

Scott Luton (33:05):

SI, sign me up. Sound sounds delicious. I’m gonna share my favorite. I think I’ve got an image here I found. So this is in downtown Monroe and I make sure I get our, one of our favorite pizza places right here. The name little Italy, Pinos pizzeria in Monroe, Georgia. Now what we get here is handmade. You can see them, you know, bring dough out that have been made and then they stretch it out and they stick it in the oven and it is so good. We typically just get the pepperoni cause we’re maybe we’re boring when it comes to pizza. As I’m finding out for my dear friend Kelly Barnett <laugh> but it is so good. Really so good. All right. So Kelly, with the theme of this, of the second half of our show here today, the first edition of this week in business history live, we are, the theme is, uh, the staples, the must-haves of your childhood sleepover. The first one was pizza. Number two, the nerded out on some video games. Kelly, tell us more.

Kelly Barner (34:03):

Absolutely. So still June 17th, just like Wheaties Atari, asteroids and lunar Lander became the very two first video games to be copyright protected.

Scott Luton (34:16):

Okay.

Kelly Barner (34:16):

Now what’s interesting about this is how the copyright was awarded because if you’ll notice in this not super Des picture, yes, kids, this is what video games used to look like. It’s pretty close to pong that you’ve just got little nondescript shapes that function as different roles. And so you have things like what was the other game meteors? Yes. Meteors was the other game that looked similar to this that came out and Atari attempted to enforce their co copyright to keep meteors from being sold. And what the courts basically ruled is that it was almost like an artistic protection that was underlying that copyright. So in other words, as long as you didn’t literally copy the entire thing and try to make it the same, you could borrow little artistic elements from it and have a similar something in your game and it could go ahead and be sold. And that didn’t infringe upon the copyright because before this, the systems would be copyrighted. So the actual game that you would put cartridges into, or the overall design of the booth, as you see from an arcade here, those would be copyright protected. But the idea that the games would be copyright protected either in terms of name or design or appearance or functionality was a completely new idea. And it didn’t even really start until the eighties. So not all that long ago, when you think about the money that companies are investing into developing these games,

Scott Luton (35:47):

Right, man, I love that. And of course who couldn’t, what would the eighties be? And, or a sleepover be without video games or without Atari, right? Fascinating story. Absolutely.

Scott Luton (35:59):

And there’s also this documentary Kelly cuz there was a time and I don’t, I can’t remember which year it was in the eighties. I think it was 84. Could’ve been 86. But anyway, the video game market, it, it bottomed out. And I, I remember I was in KB toys. I think it was 86. Cause I was old enough to have a little bit of allowance money. And of course, no one mistook me for an economist then. And no one mistakes me for an economist now. So I walk into KB, you know, thinking about, okay, what can I get with 25 bucks or whatever I had. And I passed by this bin of, in television and Atari games and they were two bucks a piece. Wow. And I can’t remember what they would go to, but this market had bottomed down. I, I went home that day with like 10, 11 games.

Scott Luton (36:43):

I was like, man, I’m living a life of luxury. I got all these video games to choose from. You know, it was, it, it was an iconic Scott Luton kid as a kid weekend. Right. But of course when the games look like this and I wish I could see our team’s response when we laid out this graphic, <laugh> this isn’t gonna keep anyone busy for, you know, a month or anything. You, you typically no get a few hours of enjoyment and unless you are a die hard trying to beat a high score, you’re ready for the next one pretty quick. Right.

Kelly Barner (37:12):

And, and speaking of bad games, I actually wondered if this is where you’re going with your, with your KB story. Yes. Is the story of the et game. Yes. Whichever company it was had created an a, an et video game, like the movie and it was so bad. They dug a big hole just before they invented sustainability. Right. They dug a big hole and they just put all the games in it, but the lore grew around what they had done. And so they actually went some number of decades later and dug the hole back up and pulled the games back out. And if they worked, they were selling for considerable money. So wow. Sometimes with enough time to appreciate even bad games can become good games.

Scott Luton (37:55):

Yes. At least for a couple minutes. Right. At least for a couple minutes. <laugh> and there’s some great documentaries. So folks, if you love video games, you know, we have Netflix and of course Amazon, there’s some wonderful documentaries dedicated to the, that early golden age of gaming, especially the, the entire story. There’s a whole documentary on the et game Kelly I’d forgotten about. So y’all check that out, but question for you and all of our friends there in the sky boxes and the comments, Kelly, what is one of your all time favorite video game or arcade game?

Kelly Barner (38:26):

No question on this, the original super Mario brothers, I was in the era where you would play it for so many hours, you would get to school and compare your thumbs with your friends. Cuz you have imprints from the little arrows <laugh> and finally beating the Coupa or whatever it was called. The king Kupa final level. Exactly. The final level of super Mario brothers. That was like a coming of age moment when, when I was in middle school. So hard to mess with the classics.

Scott Luton (38:53):

And that was the you’re referring to the deep ad. I told you I was a nerd out. I was a big old video game nerd. I’d get the Nintendo power magazine. I never got into legend of Zelda, cuz that was also a big popular game around that time that you’re talking about. But so you were a super Mario super fan. Yes. I’m gonna share. So in television, which preceded Nintendo that came out in the seventies and early eighties, B 17 bomber was one of my favorite games there. It would actually one, it was one of the first talking games. Nintendo for me it was a Carri warrior or Contra you ever play those Kelly?

Kelly Barner (39:27):

I did not play those.

Scott Luton (39:28):

Okay. Up, up, down, down left, right left. Right. A select B start was how you and your friend could get 30 lives is one of the first cheat codes. Sage Genesis. I warned I was gonna nerd out Sage Genesis, Tony Lua. Baseball. Of course John Madden started on Sage Genesis before it took over the world. And then super Nintendo. How about this? Kelly? Have you ever played the James Bond multiplayer on super Nintendo?

Kelly Barner (39:55):

No, I’ve not played it.

Scott Luton (39:57):

Oh man. The rocket launchers. The sniper. Oh, all right. We’re gonna have to introduce you and your kids to some classic games that will still entertain to this day. How about that?

Kelly Barner (40:07):

We had the big pad that went on the floor. Remember if you got the certain setup, you had the Nintendo, you had the gun like for duck hunt and then it came with the Olympics pad and you would play all the Olympics events. And we figured out that if you wanted to run fast, you didn’t actually have to pick your feet up. You would just sort of do this, like pumping rhythm in your little person with ch

Scott Luton (40:29):

You know, there’s a reason over

Kelly Barner (40:30):

Hours. <laugh>,

Scott Luton (40:32):

There’s a reason why things like that were introduced around the same time that the, the, the home, the, the cam quarter. So you could catch people in the act doing crazy things

Kelly Barner (40:44):

Later.

Scott Luton (40:44):

Yes, that’s right. All right. Really quick from Amanda. She says, I am not a big video game person, but my brother was and he and I used to play super Mario brothers all night long on Christmas Eve while we waited for Santa and then wake woke up her parents at 4:00 AM. That’s sleeping in 4:00 AM. I don’t know about, about you Kelly, what time did your kids get? Get y’all up?

Kelly Barner (41:06):

Not quite four. Am we always explain, you know, time zones and Santa’s travel time. And of course supply chain hold ups. No Santa couldn’t possibly have been to our neighborhood until at least 5:00 AM. So mile time there.

Scott Luton (41:21):

Love it. Love it. Okay. So trivia question for you, Kelly, do you happen to know where Whitman Massachusetts is located?

Kelly Barner (41:31):

Oh yes. I most certainly do. It’s on the south shore.

Scott Luton (41:34):

Okay. Now, how do you know, how do you know where Whitman is?

Kelly Barner (41:38):

Because my cousin lives there.

Scott Luton (41:40):

Oh, really? <laugh>

Kelly Barner (41:42):

Massachusetts’s related.

Scott Luton (41:46):

So topic number five. So we’ve talked pizza, we’ve talked video games, and now we’re talking sugar or in this case, in the form of chocolate chip cookies and in particular, the world famous Tollhouse cookies, Kelly, back in 1937, Ruth Wakefield was running the toll house, pull house restaurant. Yep. In Whitman, Massachusetts, she was making a batch of cookies and opted to experiment a bit by mix in some broken pieces of Nestle, semi sweet chocolate. Now it’s been rumored. Here’s the picture of Ruth. And here’s where moral exists, where the to house restaurant was. Yeah, it’s been rumored that it was next. You know, she might of hit her elbow and dumped in all these things, but she later would say that it was very intentional. She had been to Egypt and came back inspired to, to experiment with new cookies. The chocolate didn’t melt like many folks in the kitchen with her thought it would, it kind of stayed. It kind of maintained its form. And it really brought in some chocolate creaminess and a little bit of texture to the cookie. She named it, the toll house, chocolate crunch cookie. And just like that, Kelly, the world, all of us rejoiced as the chocolate chip cookie was born at a toll house restaurant there in Whitman, Massachusetts, Ruth would later publish her recipe in a Boston newspaper as well as a highly successful cookbook called the Tollhouse tried and true recipes. And in fact, that cookbook, I think went through 39 reprinting. Wow. How about that? Kelly?

Kelly Barner (43:21):

That’s incredible.

Scott Luton (43:22):

Isn’t it though. So she must have been really, she, she was a chef. She must have had all of her stuff must have been really good for her cookbook to be that popular. But between the newspaper in between that cookbook in between just how delicious chocolate chip cookies are, uh, it took it, it became viral, uh, sensation, maybe mu much like, uh, Kelly Barners meatloaf recipes gonna be after today’s live stream, who knows.

Kelly Barner (43:46):

And one variation. I have to encourage people to look up. We simply call them Tollhouse pan squares.

Scott Luton (43:53):

Interesting.

Kelly Barner (43:54):

I don’t know if anybody’s ever had a Blonie right. Everybody’s had a brownie hopefully, but if you’ve had a Blonie, it’s sort of like a vanilla version, light denser, more like a, a cookie texture, but Tollhouse pan squares is sort of a variation on her original cookie with the semi sweet chocolate chips. I believe nuts. Walnuts are in the original recipe, but you do, you make them on a sheet and you cut them sort of like you would cut brownies, but they’re not sort of gooey. I’m not interesting. I’m an edgy brownie person. I know some people are middle of the tray, pudgy brownie people. I like the corners, but Tollhouse pan squares sort of cook and cut like brownies. But once you’re eating them, they have a little bit of crunch to them with you really good.

Scott Luton (44:36):

I’m with you. Uh, uh, at least part of the way I love those corner brownies. I I’m with you. I love that. That crunchy chewy aspect of the brownie that you’re speaking to, but I’m not a big fan of blindies. And I really don’t like as much as I love almonds and pecans and Hickory nuts, which is kind of a weird one. I don’t like any of those in my cookies. I don’t know why. Just that’s just how it goes. Amanda says, now we’re having pizza for dinner and chocolate chip cookies for dessert. Oh gosh. That’s um, that’s a dangerous, dangerous combination. And

Kelly Barner (45:07):

Amanda, if you have not Scott, stick your fingers in your ears for a second. If you haven’t gotten Scott’s father’s day present yet, I have an edgy brownie pan. It’s got like a zigzag thing. Every single brownie in the batch becomes an edge brownie it’s oh man. A miracle of modern invention

Scott Luton (45:25):

Sounds delicious. Sold, sold. Speaking of father’s day gifts, I’ve got such a cool, we have such a cool gift in mind for Amanda’s dad and I can’t let the cat outta the bag. Well, I’ll definitely share probably on the buzz on Monday. All right. So let’s talk about Kelly first off one, one final note here, unfortunately, where this marker is in Whitman, the burn, uh, the building had burned down, I think back in the eighties or nineties, I believe. Yep. So they can’t, you know, celebrate the building, but they put up a great marker here, which is really cool to the work of one Ruth Wakefield. All right. So speaking of this week in business history and kind of our, Hey, you know, it’s gonna be like, Coca-Cola in the eighties, we’re gonna have this week in business history, classic, and then we’re gonna have new business history, right? So hopefully,

Kelly Barner (46:17):

No, you can’t. That’s like a jinx, everybody hated new Coke. True. You can’t have new business history. That was a catastrophe.

Scott Luton (46:24):

All right. We’ll figure out something else. But speaking of the programming that our audience has, has come to to know, and hopefully love at least from all the feedback we get. Let’s talk about the most recent episode that you published. I think I’ve got a graphic here that we published. I think this week here, Kelly, tell us about economics and the age of enlightenment.

Kelly Barner (46:43):

So you can’t open a browser, pick up a newspaper, touch your smartphone without getting the latest economic news, but it’s not a new practice. And so with sort of interesting timing that as I was researching business history, milestones, I came across Adam, Smith’s not birth date cuz back in the early 18th century, they didn’t track birth dates. But what they did track was baptism dates. So on June 16th, 1723, Adam Smith was baptized. He was Scottish. His dad had passed away a couple of months before he was born. And his mom raised him to be this super academic minded guy. And he was fortunate enough to be born right into the height of the enlightenment. So there were a whole range of, of phases kind of working their way through history. At this time, we went from the Renaissance to the scientific revolution, to the enlightenment, to the industrial revolution.

Kelly Barner (47:41):

And he was one of the great thinkers during the enlightenment, a period which also included the American and French revolutions. So worldwide change. And two of the things that I covered in this week’s episode that I think people need to know about. This is the important thing about business history is that what’s old is new. Again, Adam Smith wrote about the invisible hand and this was this idea that if we just sort of leave the economy alone, please everything will work itself out over time. Too much intervention actually makes things worse. That’s the idea that he’s most famous for from his book, the wealth of nations, but what people might not know about economics back then was that it wasn’t necessarily considered a pure science. It was considered part of philosophy. And so in his book, he doesn’t just talk about markets and currency and trading and government involvement.

Kelly Barner (48:38):

He also talks about his own approach to philosophy and what motivates people. So what was revolutionary about the approach that he took in the book was that he said, listen, leave people alone and allow them to be selfish. And we, if we allow everyone to be selfish, consumers will spend their money. With the most affectionate value oriented providers. Providers will diversify the products and services they provide to make those consumers happy and everybody will end up getting the value that they need for the money that they’re willing to spend and bringing in that human element to it was revolutionary at the time. And so it really, it changed the way people looked at at human behavior in terms of spending activity back then doesn’t necessarily play out that invisible hand. They’ve never managed to actually model it in such a way that you could do policy based upon it, but it absolutely is a force that we’re aware of today. And I know it’s one of our favorite stories. You wanna talk about the invisible hand, that invisible hand snatched all the toilet paper <laugh> out of stores at the beginning of the pandemic, right? Because people came in and they started just acting based on the news that they, they had heard. Right. And over time it does take time, but things level themselves off. So it’s one of those theories that we do need to know about, even if we can’t necessarily expect the rules of it to apply 100% in terms of managing the economy.

Scott Luton (50:08):

Wow. I feel like I have just gained a whole new appreciation for Adam Smith and, and your research and uh, storytelling on this week in business history, for sure. But I’m you continually set a higher bar, so y’all checked it out. We dropped the link. I think the direct play link in the comments on Facebook, LinkedIn, I think also on Twitter and let’s learn more about Adam Smith and this invisible hand that’s been taking all the toilet paper, the containers, <laugh> the computer chips. You name it, right. It’s the hand.

Kelly Barner (50:39):

And I’ve happened to have it on good authority. Adam Smith liked pineapple on his pizza. Right. <laugh> so just bringing us full circle, right? Enlightenment thinkers always put pineapple on

Scott Luton (50:50):

Their pizza. That would not surprise me because I was, uh, eco smart eco. Uh, I can never say even see, I can’t even say the word economically minded is that said it right? Absolutely smart. Economically minded people have never agreed with me, Kelly. So it doesn’t surprise me at all. All right. So y’all check out that episode. Kelly, great work looking forward. Do you know yet? So that episode dropped this week. Yes. Let’s see. Today’s Wednesday, the 15th that, so it dropped yesterday. The 14th. We’re gonna be publishing the replay of this live stream on the 21st of June Kelly. Any idea, any, anything you can share about what you’re thinking for your next episode? That will be on the 28th of June.

Kelly Barner (51:32):

I don’t actually know yet. So everybody’s gonna have to subscribe to this week in business history to find out what I covered.

Scott Luton (51:38):

Wonderful. Okay. Well, Hey, before we leave, it is speaking of business history and history in general, I wanted to bring up. So June 19th is coming. Sunday is Juneteenth. And I just went to Galveston, Texas with my dear friend, Kevin L. Jackson, who leads digital transformers here, Kelly, you know, who’s one of the K’s around here. I was doing such great, such great work. So Kevin is leading a group that has purchased the, the us custom house there in Galveston, the, the historic iconic custom house. It’s literally really, can you say this? It was literally the birthplace yeah. Of Juneteenth. And for folks may, maybe geographically challenged, like I am sometimes Galveston’s right there on the coast. In fact, Galveston’s an island. If we were to zoom in a little bit closer, just off the coast and not far from the thriving city of Houston. So there’s a me and Kevin, Kevin in the middle and that to the left is Mr.

Scott Luton (52:34):

Doug Matthews. Now Kelly, Mr. Matthews is very humble. In fact, he’s not gonna approve of me sharing some of, of his life’s work here in this conversation, but I’m going to anyway, cause we need more Doug Matthews in this journey. So Doug there, he, for 43 years, he has been, uh, advocating, sharing, leading the Juneteenth movement, which of course celebrates folks that may not know it celebrates the end of slavery for all across the us general order. Number three, which was an official order that came outta the white house in 1865 was a formal proclamation of that. But Galveston was one of the last places in the whole country that general order three was made aware of. And so that’s what makes the us custom house there and, and Galveston general so important when it comes to recognizing their place in history. But so back to Mr.

Scott Luton (53:31):

Matthews here four to three years, uh, he has been dedicated to growing this national holiday, which was just made in national holiday a couple years ago. But as if that’s not a lot of work, he also served as he was the first black city manager in all of Texas, as he served the city manager for Galveston and he spent six years becoming a, a in the Catholic church. I wanna say deacon, it’s not a deacon, but anyway, he give, he gives a homily once, once a, uh, once a month. And you’ve gotta work for six years to, to attain that, you know, voluntary position. So then you do, you can do more work. So, you know, it’s amazing. Someone’s shared this one time on a podcast with me that those that give users, don’t just give once they keep giving and given, cause it’s just, it’s in their DNA.

Scott Luton (54:22):

And I gotta tell you having the opportunity to not only in a very firsthand way, be on site and kind of take in this historic historical site. That was us, that is us custom house and catch up with Kevin and to meet ongoing timeless volunteer servants, public servants, volunteer leaders like Mr Doug Matthews. It was a wonderful trip, Kelly. So this coming Sunday has a mini get together to, to celebrate Juneteenth. I’ll be thinking of that trip and those conversations and, and the new museum that’s coming to the us custom house there in Galveston. So look forward to maybe making a trip there with you and, and the rest of our hosts and, and team members one day. Huh.

Kelly Barner (55:04):

And you know what, it’s an important reminder that everything that we’ve talked about today from cookies to video games, to Wheatie cereal, to Juneteenth, we only know these stories because they’ve been saved and retold, and sometimes it’s not until we’re looking back that we recognize the importance of an event that has taken place. So I know I’m preaching to the choir, Scott, this is why history is so incredibly important, but it’s also why it’s fascinating. And it’s something that we need to keep alive and repeat to our kids and, and celebrate those milestones because we all have benefited from all of the changes that have taken place

Scott Luton (55:39):

Well said, well said. So that’s a good place to kind of bring the conversation here to a close today. Kelly, I, I love that you and the rest of our team and all of our hosts were big believers in experimentation, right? How can we engage and lean into our, our global listing audience better? Well, this is, this is an example of that. And I’m looking forward to knocking out more live streams and folks, you know, we, we had a top five list a day. The next one might be a top three. It might be a top 10 who knows, but one constant Kelly. And I bet you are the same here is we welcome. We encourage, we want, we’d love to get your thoughts on these historical stories and, and important journeys that we talk about. We’d love to get your take. And when we, when we get something wrong or if we get it really right, Hey, shoot us a note. Reach out to us across social media Kelly, on that note, how can folks connect with you?

Kelly Barner (56:36):

LinkedIn is the best way to find me.

Scott Luton (56:39):

It’s just that easy. Huh? LinkedIn. It’s that easy. Kelly Barner on LinkedIn. Also check out, do P for procurement, check out buyer’s meeting point, check out art of procurement, doing some really great things across there. Folks. Kelly, thank you very much. Thank you, Amanda. Catherine, Chantel clay, and everyone else that, that tuned in whatever you do, whatever you do is we wrap here today. You know, we mean this with all sincerity, you know, there needs to be more Doug Matthews. There needs to be more folks that are willing to take that step to bridge that divide, you know, to extend those acts of kindness and, and real leadership, regardless of how small or how big and so on behalf of Kelly Barner and our team here, Scott Luden signing off now challenging you to do good to give forward and to be the change that’s needed and go out there and make some history. And all that said, we’ll see you next time. Right back here on this week in business history. Thanks everybody.