In this episode of Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton sits down with Kelly Barner to discuss the lessons learned in 2020 and what’s to come in 2021.

Intro/Outro (00:05):

It’s time for supply chain. Now broadcasting live from the supply chain capital of the country. Atlanta, Georgia heard around the world, supply chain. Now spotlights the best in all things, supply chain, the people, the technologies, the best practices and the critical issues of the day. And now here are your hosts. Scott Luton here with supply chain. Now welcome to today’s show.

Scott Luton (00:32):

On this episode, we’re continuing an interview, a mini series of sorts, where we’re going to get insights and POV from our incredibly talented stable of hosts. And today we’re gonna be working really hard to raise your procurement leadership IQ with our dear friend, the one only Kelly Barner. So quick programming note for get started here today. If you liked this conversation, be sure to find us and subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts. So you don’t miss conversations just like this one. All right. So let’s welcome in no further do our featured guests, are they Kelly Barner owner and managing director of buyers meeting point co-author of a slew of successful books, including finance unleashed, leveraging the CFO for innovation and hosts of one of our newest series here at supply chain. Now Dow P for procurement Kelly. Good afternoon.

Kelly Barner (01:24):

Hey Scott. Good to see you.

Scott Luton (01:26):

Good to see you as well. You know, we have been collaborating for a long time now it continues to evolve and we are so excited about kind of this latest iteration, which is this Dow P for procurement.

Kelly Barner (01:38):

So very excited about that. And for, for anyone who doesn’t get the reference, who doesn’t happen to be sort of an old timey movie buff dial P for procurement actually comes from the old Alfred Hitchcock classic dial M for murder. So we’re going to have a little bit of mystery, a little bit of entry, but lots of energy and probably a few surprises.

Scott Luton (01:56):

I love that, you know, you came prepared, uh, I didn’t know if you or I was going to share that Alfred Hitchcock angle, but you nailed it as always. So we’re going to have a lot of fun before we get into business and the series and some of your observations let’s get to know for the handful of folks that may have missed some of your earlier appearances or some of the other work you do tell us a little bit about Kelly Barner.

Kelly Barner (02:19):

My original plan was to be a college professor, English literature, before 1700. I was a big Shakespeare Chaucer, all that kind of thing, kind of missed my Mark somewhere along the way I did end up writing books. It just wasn’t what I thought it was going to be about. I have three kids, we have a cat named booboo. So what happened, would you let your kids name your animals? I live in the Boston area and I have been in and out of different procurement roles for nearly 20 years now. So I’ve been practitioner, I’ve done consulting, I’ve done the independent thought leader thing, and I absolutely loved the procurement supply chain space

Scott Luton (02:56):

Outstanding. And one of your life’s mottos we realized in one of our first interviews is don’t be a jerk. Life’s too short for that, right?

Kelly Barner (03:05):

Yes. Do not be a jerk hashtag no jerks seriously. And for anybody that has ever taken any kind of entrepreneurial journey, you know, that it’s very exciting and it’s hard and it’s wonderful. But one of the best things is you get to make decisions about who you want to work with. And to me, that’s the number one filter. It’s not worth all the additional risk and stress and pressure and all that. If you have to deal with jerks. So that’s cut number one in my book,

Scott Luton (03:32):

Well said, and that’s we already got our first t-shirt ism and there’s one filter, no jerks, hashtag

Kelly Barner (03:39):

Check out the Del P fashion line.

Scott Luton (03:43):

All right. So moving right along. So 2020 goes out saying not just in historically challenging year, but just such a unique year for so many different reasons. So, you know, here at year end is we’re able to kind of take inventory of so many takeaways and business lessons good and bad. You know, what, what what’s that short list of, of key takeaways for you here?

Kelly Barner (04:05):

You know, the, the first one is just being so incredibly proud of the professional community. I’ve had some funny conversations over this time. I’ve had some heartbreaking conversations. I’ve spoken to managers that are stressed on behalf of their team and their team’s families. But the fact of the matter is everybody really rallied. I mean, people were working in weird places. They were, you know, you see animals go by. Children would go by, you’d hear weird things in the background, but we kept things rolling. And I think that’s something that all of us should sit back and kind of take stock of and be grateful for. But something that follows on that, that I’m starting to see more and more is that there’s also fall off. We’re getting to the point where we’ve been apart from each other for long enough, some of the communication patterns are starting to break down.

Kelly Barner (04:54):

If there’s been team changes, they’re not really sticking the way they would, if everybody was in person and just kind of communication dynamics, it’s not quite as easy to be rude or breasts with somebody when you’re looking into a zoom camera, as it would be in an email, for instance, that’s kind of a classic mistake, but it’s a little bit easier. People start to feel a little bit less real when they’re faces on a screen versus when you actually read someone’s whole body language and response to a situation. So I think we’re going into a time now. I’m actually hoping that a little bit of a break over the holidays. We’ll let everybody be charged because it’s going to be this way for a little while. And I think we all have to mind our P’s and Q’s like be empathetic towards what everybody has going on, but at the same time, not let the business slip

Scott Luton (05:40):

Agreed. And that’s a great point. We all certainly miss the in-person element, whether it’s creating podcasts or conversation where you’re around a table, right. In a studio, and you got that almost an instant camaraderie and kindred spirits. That’s really challenging to, uh, remotely to your point because people communicate and they’ve got different comfort levels and, and rapport building changes dramatically when you are remote and whether you’re creating content or to your earlier point, like your examples, you’re navigating business waters and problems and opportunities, all of that communication changes, right?

Kelly Barner (06:19):

It absolutely does. And we’ve had to learn to, I think, combined visuals and audio differently, even to think about how do you feel differently watching a movie versus listening to a podcast. There is a dimension that’s missing there. And so we’re lucky that we have the technologies that we do. We’re lucky that we have the connectivity that we do, but remembering where that falls off, sort of like knowing the difference, when should this message go through email? When do I need to pick up the phone? It’s really giving thought to that human dynamic in every single situation that we handle. Good news or bad.

Scott Luton (06:54):

Excellent point. Excellent point. All right. So before we ask you about a key Eureka moment, one of our favorite questions here, anything, any other takeaway that you want to reference from 2020?

Kelly Barner (07:06):

I think the other key takeaway, obviously none of us have gotten to travel much if at all, but I live in central mass. So there’s been a couple of times I’ve had to move around the state and I found myself up on the mass pike. So if you’ve ever driven on the pike, it starts in the city goes right straight out West through the middle of the state continues right on into New York. And one of those times, you know, we were in the midst of all this bad news, everything was bad and run the pike heading West. And I’m just looking at the vehicles around me. And I started to mentally count the trucks. Like it’s all trucks there’s, there were passenger cars and there were different little delivery vehicles, but by and large, it was 18 wheelers. And I almost felt kind of choked up about it because back to that point about the visual versus the audio, just seeing all these trucks on the road, the risks, these people are taking the time away from family. It was very emotional seeing all of the trucks rolling. And I felt so excited for our industry and so proud of the drivers. They really are heroes. And they’ve put up with a lot this year and I am so proud to be on the corporate end of the work that they’re doing every single day

Scott Luton (08:19):

Outstanding thought. And you’re absolutely right there, right there, front line, just like our healthcare, just like anyone else helped us keep moving forward. And it’s a great visual. And I also say as being a big old YouTube junk yet YouTube is my favorite. I probably spend more time on YouTube than traditional TV these days, just because of all the ways you can watch traditional TV on YouTube. And my favorite part, the Kelly is all the different niches that you can learn about whether it’s supply chain related business related number-wise, but including truck drivers. There’s a lot of truck drivers that document their experiences on YouTube. And I’ll tell you, it has been fascinating to watch that side of, of the world. So excellent. Call-out as always. So let’s talk about, you know, this Eureka moment, we all know, some days you have several, at least weekly, monthly, and you’re like 2020, you might have plenty every day in and day out. What’s been one that has been your, you know, your, your, uh, compelling and triggering one on your end.

Kelly Barner (09:25):

I’m going to give everybody a break and skip the 20, 20 Rica’s. Most of those, you know, involves a non Letty like language. So we’re just going to skip over those. But when I think back early in my career, there were a couple of pivotal moments that actually followed very closely together that have changed the way that I thought about managing my professional journey. And the first one was, so I was working in procurement, managing hired services for a large grocery chain. And I had transitioned from another job in the organization. So it was something of a lateral move. And one day this is like every team leader’s worst nightmare. Somebody started talking about salaries. Oh goodness. And I found out that because I was one of the few people at my level that had transitioned laterally instead of being hired in, I was making half of what my peers were making.

Kelly Barner (10:18):

And I was absolutely devastated because I worked hard and sure I transitioned laterally and maybe I didn’t come from the same kind of role as they did, but I also had knowledge of the company and I felt betrayed was sort of my initial reaction to that. But then the more I thought about it, the more I recognized, okay, well, this is what it is and I have to own the situation. And so that’s when I made the decision to start looking for roles outside the company. And the role that I ended up really deciding to push for was a consulting position at M tourists. Uh, it was an eSourcing provider, much like a Reba. They were purchased by IBM at the end of 2011. So newer folks industry may not be familiar with them, but at the time they were one of the big dogs, right?

Kelly Barner (11:05):

And so I was going to join the consulting team. I was so excited and I had to do this big case study interview. This is how they interviewed. And I found out again, salary, I found out the salary for the job I was going for. And because I was making so little and it was a much higher level role. It was like four times what I was making. And I instantly thought, well, I’m not qualified for that job. And I stopped working on the case study. I mentally gave up and I went to speak to one of my mentors and she gave me the advice that don’t get so wrapped up in the numbers, go for it, make a push worst thing that happens. You learn something, you get some feedback you interview someplace else. But of course I had given up, that’s sorry. I had stopped for working on my case study.

Kelly Barner (11:56):

And boy, that interview was coming. I went sleepless the night before the interview. I did not sleep. I worked for almost 36 hours straight to get my case study done. Wow, got the job. And those two lessons to me combined, you got to own your own career. If you don’t like what’s going on around, you leave, take ownership over that. But then also don’t ever sell yourself short, you know, put yourself out there. Don’t worry. If it’s a big salary, you are qualified. If they’re willing to meet with you, you are potentially qualified for that job and you absolutely ought to push for it. I’ve never forgotten those two lessons. Those for me were enormous Eureka moments. Maybe wish I had dealt with one or two of them differently, but boy, did I learn good lessons on that? And it had a happy ending. So I love that good life lesson.

Scott Luton (12:51):

Yes. Huge life lesson. I think I’ll think of the confidence journey or individual confidence journey is that we’re all on, you know, we all don’t arrive at, at the same stations at the same time. And, and we all get those Eureka moments earlier or later, or at different points in the career. But once you feel like you’ve got your fate in your hands and you accomplish something with that, with that in mind, that just suck you rip the blinders off and, and the sky’s the limit. And, and, uh, it’s a very empowering moment when you have that realization.

Kelly Barner (13:24):

It is. And I think for me, it’s scary to sort of be responsible for your own journey, but it’s also empowering. And at the end of the day, I would rather be in charge of my situation, even if it means by making a mistake, I hurt myself through an opportunity. I hurt myself, you know, through some kind of financial loss. I would still rather own my own situation than be sort of at the whim of other people. So it’s a little scary. You got to take on some risks, but it’s always better to own your own circumstances.

Scott Luton (13:51):

Agreed. Before we talk about 2021, one thing to watch for, I want to keep dumped down this theme of empowering others there. Recently we published a podcast on Mary Barra, which is chairman and CEO of general motors, right? As we got to know her story better when she started at GM at 18 and worked in a wide variety of different aspects of this behemoth, this global behemoth, and one of the big things she did, speaking of empowering others is as she became basically the global leader of human resources for GM earlier, before she became the fearless leader, she took a 10 page general motors uniform policy, 10 pages, you know, for policy. And she, she trimmed that all the way down to two words, dress appropriately. And

Kelly Barner (14:44):

She got a yes,

Scott Luton (14:46):

And she got a lot of feedback positive and a lot of negative from people, various people, but one of the great points she made, I’m a paraphrase it because I don’t have her quote in front of me is, Hey, if you can’t, if you as a frontline manager or as a supervisor, if you can’t manage the dress appropriately and what else can you not manage? Right. And, and she really, rather than use that to beat her, her, uh, supervisors and managers over the head with she really used as a means to empower, let them make decisions and manage these things, not create this massive 10 page policy. When for so many people in this massive organization, it could, it could really truly be that simple. And I think as leaders, uh, Kelly, I’d love for you to speak to, you know, we were just talking a minute ago about how empowering ourselves through that journey. But as leaders, we also have to empower others, whether they’re colleagues or, uh, you know, team members or what have you. Right.

Kelly Barner (15:49):

We absolutely do. And before I comment on that, I just need to say for anybody who’s never managed uniforms. What she did was so scary. I can’t even tell you, I wouldn’t have been necessarily like thrilled or upset about it, but I have sourced uniforms. That is one of the most hot button HR issues. There is that procurement will ever touch. That was, she was a risk taker. So kudos to Mary Barra for taking that risk. And I, I do hope it worked out well for everybody. You know? So I think in terms of empowering others, the most important thing we bring to the table is perspective. We can see other people in ways that they can’t see themselves. Sometimes that means we can see a strength that they don’t know. They have other times, it means we’re noticing a pattern of things going wrong, or perhaps a troublesome trait that keeps popping up.

Kelly Barner (16:48):

In both cases. It’s incumbent upon us to say something, you have to be empathetic. You have to be respectful. You have to choose your words wisely, but just like Mary, with putting those small choices in the hands of her managers around what the team needed to wear, what’s appropriate. You asked me what’s appropriate. That’s one thing you ask, you know, with shopping for gym pants, one time with my daughter, and she’s trying to talk me into wearing all these crazy patterns, hurts her thoughts on appropriate. Very like no grownups. We wear black leggings to the gym. Like we all wear black leggings. That’s appropriate. She’s like not a tiger print of rainbow. You know? No. So a lot of different perspective needs to come into it. And I think as long as the words that you’re saying, come from a place of wanting the best for someone, you can help them recognize their strengths and apply them better.

Kelly Barner (17:44):

You know, channel good energy. You can help them learn alternate behaviors. If there’s something that’s constantly getting them into trouble, but it does require that risk. You have to put the choice in their hands, give them the information, and then they’re either going to do it or not. But I love the fact that she was willing to distribute ownership to those other teams and then trust that it was going to go well or trust that she and HR were going to be able to handle it when it didn’t, you do have to continue taking those risks. And maybe it’s a big, big risk at the high level. And the, maybe the rest becomes a little bit smaller as it gets distributed among everybody. But you got to distribute the work. You got to distribute the information and you have to distribute the responsibility because if you don’t hand out that responsibility, no one’s ever empowered to do anything. It’s such a loss.

Scott Luton (18:35):

Yeah. Agreed. And, and, but to your point for, for folks that you’re trying to empower that to Sept, they have to be willing to embrace it and make decisions and embrace some of the uncertainty, you know? And, and so there’s responsibilities on both sides, but leadership side and, and, and, and say the, the, the team member employee side. So I love that, especially as we hear more and more about the employee experience, right? We’ve heard about customer experience and consumer experience and, and user experience. Now we’re hearing a lot more about the employee experience, which is a welcome, welcome breath of fresh air. All right. So we’re, we’re, we’re foreshadowing very nicely Kelly, by the way, because what we’re talking about, you know, things coming and, and to come. So as we thankfully turn the page, turn the counter page 2021. Oh, I’m just glad we’re here. Uh, what, what is one thing that, you know, that you would suggest that, that business professionals, procurement professionals, supply chain professionals, what have you, uh, keep their out?

Kelly Barner (19:38):

So I do think a big thing is the sort of downgrading of interpersonal relations. I think that needs to be very important. I also think as we come up almost on a year, right. Of going through this whole business, we need to prevent our short-term habits from becoming a very small minded cycle. So especially back last February, last March, even last April, none of us could ever see more than like three, four days in advance. And so you were making, you know, tiny little iterations, little decisions, how far can I see, okay, I’m going to make a small choice and then maybe it started to extend to a couple of months, but even now there’s still enough uncertainty around vaccines and travel restrictions. And now we have the virus kind of morphing and in Europe. And so it’s leaving us with this feeling of uncertainty.

Kelly Barner (20:31):

And I think that we have to extend our planning cycles as far as we can. We have to be willing to revise them as new information becomes available. But one of my worries actually comes back to, you know, my focus is so much on content written content, audio content, and for the last 10 months now, everything’s been about COVID everything, everything. And I think to myself, are we all going to look back and say, there’s like 10 months worth of unusable content, because it was so specific to this time. Everything’s about, COVID, I’m a little bit concerned that that same dynamic is going to exist and have a lasting negative effect on businesses. So I think we’re also focused on getting through the here and now. Well, two years from now is going to come and are we going to be prepared? Are we not going to be prepared?

Kelly Barner (21:22):

I think we have to force ourselves to deal with immediate medium term and longterm. And we have to constantly revisit that. But one of my concerns for businesses is that if we don’t push ourselves to still try to think three to five years in the future, we are going to miss so many opportunities because there are companies that are going to come out of this better than they went into it. Some of that is going to be dictated by circumstances, but some of it is based on the attitude and the risk assessment of managers and decision makers in those companies, to a certain extent, all of us can do something strategic and position our companies better, but I’m really worried. It’s hard to do, to say, okay, we don’t know January is going to be like, how am I supposed to think about 20, 25, right? But it’s those teams and companies that can push themselves to find the energy and foresight to still do that, despite how hard it is that are really going to come out better. On the other side,

Scott Luton (22:20):

Very well stated. And I’ll saw one of the big four publish a study, uh, that we could expect, uh, seismic disruption in our, in our supply global supply chains. Every 3.7 years, I think is what the study said. And it really is interesting because, um, you know, all the, while the pandemic and, and this certainly is on a different scale than so many, uh, I’ve ever experienced. And some of the challenges are so unique. However, you know, we, we’ve got geopolitical hotspots that fortunately have, have not erupted and have, would have all the potential of being a seismic disruption to, to supply chain and beyond. We’ve got, uh, other threats cybersecurity every, every other day, you read about different threats, current penetrations, potential threats. I mean, they’re there the potential to keep net for disruption after disruption. I really look at 2020, and I’m very thankful that one of the silver linings is that the professional, I’m not going to use the word resilient because it’s overused. And so many folks have forgotten the definition. I came across this supply chain, brain article, where this author was talking about the anti-fragile supply chain, because every supply chain has some degree of fragility, right? Absolutely. But the silver lining,

Kelly Barner (23:41):

You’re doing it wrong. It needs to have some fragility,

Scott Luton (23:46):

But, um, I’m hoping that that part of the silver lining here is that, uh, we are better off in so many different ways, both from a leadership experience standpoint, from a, how we overcame certain unforeseen challenges and, and how we can apply all those learnings and the risk management and the modeling and you name it to what that next disruption is going to be, because the chances are, it could be just as disruptive. Right. Um, so we’ll see what happens. Um, I hate the, I want to, I want to end on an optimistic note, so let’s, let’s make sure we do that.

Kelly Barner (24:23):

Yes, let’s absolutely do that.

Scott Luton (24:26):

That supply chains in, right. It is, you know, what, what’s that next, uh, scenario to the be prepared for. All right. But there’s plenty of good news. And that’s one thing I’m really excited about with Dao P for procurement, because we’re going to hear so much good news, best practices, personal stories, how the profession, especially in the procurement space is changing and evolving. So tell us a little bit about what we can expect from DAPI P for procurement.

Kelly Barner (24:55):

One of the things that’s actually really nice about doing a procurement focused show within the supply chain now network is that there’s already this context. It’s not like saying, okay, I’m talking about procurement versus talking about finance. We’re talking about procurement versus supply chain, right? Where a lot of the business listening audience might kind of see procurement supply chain is the same thing. You know, within supply chain, there are so many different disciplines, you know, better than anybody. And the same is true of procurement. And I think part of what’s going to be exciting about this is that because we’re doing procurement in this context of folks that really know the nuance, know the different challenges, we’re going to get to talk about different styles of managing spend through technology, through process, through specialists. We’re going to get to talk about different ways of partnering with third parties around products, around services, collaboration.

Kelly Barner (25:51):

And we’re going to get to talk about some of the different leadership styles, because there’s a lot of change that’s been going on in procurement actually for a pretty long time. Right. And one of the things we did see this year, you know, we would talk about like, okay, there was a tsunami, okay. There was, you know, this economic issue, right. For session and in 2008, 2009. And we always kind of go through the same thing where we say, but does anything really going to change? And pretty much nothing ever did. Well, guess what, it’s different now, like this time, it really changed. We don’t need to ask that question anymore. We’ve learned which parts of our digital transformation efforts were real, which ones were sort of digital theater and didn’t mean anything. They just kind of laid a layer over a broken process. Well, you can’t do that when everybody’s working from home.

Kelly Barner (26:39):

So we have our work cut out for us, but it’s going to be a lot of fun and there’s a ton to talk about. And I’m actually very excited. It does come back to this whole user experience employee experience. We touch a lot of different groups from the C-suite to distributed buyers, to suppliers. We’re one of the few teams in the company that’s regularly dealing with outsiders. Um, and I think there’s huge opportunity for us to collaborate with sales. You know, we’re, we’re always pushing, how can we affect the top line? Can’t do that without going through sales and the opportunities exist. We just have to find ways to do it. And we have to get the work done and we have to make sure people know the work that we’re doing. So I think this is great timing to be starting a show specifically focused on procurement and supply chain now.

Scott Luton (27:27):

All right, you got just as going now, Kelly. So let’s dive into the first show. What’s so neat is not only as we’ve talked about the countless times, you know, the supply chain now in recent years has finally, Holy cow finally gotten that seat at the table. And then the further is consumers now are connecting. The dots are connecting the dots and they’re more aware of why they can enjoy convene e-commerce forward and reverse. And now it seems like the procurement profession is seeing something very similar, right? The rise of procurement here in recent. Absolutely. And certainly if we’ve heard anything in 2020, it’s all the clamoring real and not so real in terms of the different strategies we use across industry there and where in this, that or the other. So it is a great time I would assume to be in the procurement profession. Right.

Kelly Barner (28:25):

Very exciting. And part of what’s made it so exciting is over the last nine months, a lot of the traditional rules, we would typically function under, have been suspended now, depending on where you work, that might mean a slightly different thing. So for instance, it wasn’t that long ago I interviewed the chief procurement officer of New York city. And he talked about the days of trying to find PPE and what they had to do. And he talks about how awful it was. And he said, I never want to go back there again. I don’t ever want to go back and have to do that again. So that gives you some appreciation for the boundaries. We traditionally work inside of no, for other teams, it was about, okay, we have this workforce, that’s been distributed overnight. We need to get keyboards. We need ergonomic setups. We need, how are we going to connect people?

Kelly Barner (29:12):

How are we going to handle shipping? And so we’ve kind of blown a lot of the traditional limitations out of the water and things like, for instance, this is the phrase procurement never wants to hear, but we’ve always done it this other way. Well, that objection just gone. Absolutely just gone. And so we are taking that opportunity to try different things, to push ourselves and others out of their comfort zone so that we can simply do what the company needs us to do to keep it rolling that, and everyone now thinks they’re an expert on supply chain because they know when toilet paper is and is not available and the limitations and why are there limitations? So I feel like we’ve come up, not only in the C-suite, but in general conversation, it’s much easier now to explain to even friends and family okay. You’re in corporate procurement, corporate supply chain. Does that mean, ah, you wonder why there was no toilet paper. Okay. Now I have your attention. That’s what we do.

Scott Luton (30:11):

And just tuck empty shells, no toilet paper, I guess. But you know, when the consumers get educated and they become more aware of professions and, and, and the sectors within a profession, so to speak, that’s a great thing. That’s such a great thing. And hopefully it’ll lead to more of, you know, we’re, we’re in this perhaps a greater supply chain, including procurement and manufacturing and engineering and all that. And we’re, we’re competing for that top talent because we need it perhaps unlike ever before or unlike, never before. I guess that to say that right. And part of that battle part of it is they weren’t as, and the exciting things that you just spoke about, which I think with jazz law folks up to come in and, and, and takes procurement or supply chain roles and, and the impact they can have and the technology that they can, they can leverage and, and the things they’re gonna learn and, and the upward trajectory of the profession.

Scott Luton (31:03):

So I love it. Uh, it’s exactly what you and I had in mind when we, when we were brainstorming about what’s next. And we’re really excited to continue our long standing collaboration with, uh, the go-to when it comes to all things procurement, and then some which is Kelly Barner. So Kelly, how can folks get in touch with you about whether it’s this series or you got a great podcast at, uh, art, uh, procurement, which we’re big fans of, of course, you’ve got no shortages of content you’re producing books and other projects. How can folks reach out to you?

Kelly Barner (31:35):

It’s a couple of ways, probably the easiest way is find me on LinkedIn. I’m definitely there. I look roughly like this. Um, so that’s all, you know, it’s me, but you’re also welcome to check out my website. Buyer’s meeting point.com. We’re actually relaunching that in the first week of January. So be on the lookout for that general user experience to be improved. And you can message me. You can contact me directly through the website. I absolutely welcome hearing from people. So if you have even a small comment, you just want to say hi, if you have a question, if you’re looking for something, please don’t ever hesitate to reach out, because I love getting to talk to folks that are doing the work.

Scott Luton (32:11):

Awesome. Love it. And I love the, uh, uh, you mentioned buyers, meaning point very vibrant and in particular LinkedIn community. So looking forward to, uh, dropping new content that we co-create with Dow P in that really, really sound video that’s right, starting in January with our first live stream. So Kelly, all the best have enjoyed this, looking forward to this next chapter, love what you do and looking forward to getting things off in earnest and just a few weeks. Thank you, Scott. Me too. Absolutely. Trump, thanks so much for having me. You bet. So we’ve been talking with Kelly Barner owner and managing director at buyer’s meeting point amongst many other things, but including also hosts of our new, one of our newest series, dial P for procurements. And look for that. If you enjoy this conversation, check out the rest of our conversations, supply chain now.com fondness and subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts from on behalf of the entire team here at supply chain. Now this is Scott Luton wishing all of our listeners, nothing but the best. Say happy holidays, Merry Christmas, happy new year, but more importantly, Hey, do good gift forward and be the change that’s needed. And on that note, we’ll see you next,