The Supply Chain Buzz is Supply Chain Now’s regular Monday livestream, held at 12n ET each week. This show focuses on some of the leading stories from global supply chain and global business, always with special guests – the most important of which is the live audience!

This week’s edition of The Buzz featured co-hosts Scott Luton, Greg White, and returning guest Constantine Limberakis. Constantine has over 20 years of international experience, holding strategic roles in analyst advisory, consulting, product marketing, product development, and market research. He has always been passionate about engaging with global business leaders through speaking engagements, podcasts, research, webinars, and industry articles.

In this livestream, created in collaboration with a live Supply Chain Now audience, Constantine, Scott, and Greg discussed:

• What is being done to strengthen the global pharmaceutical supply chain in response to ingredient shortages and international regulatory challenges

• The need for comprehensive cyber risk response programs, given the 600 percent increase in documented cyber-attacks in 2022

• Speculation about the apparel industry’s seeming unwillingness to embrace modern (i.e. post fax machine) technology

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to Supply Chain. Now the voice of global supply chain Supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from Those Making Global Business Happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:31):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton, Greg White and special guest host Constantine Limberakis with you here on Supply Chain. Now, welcome to today’s live stream, Greg. How you doing?

Greg White (00:43):

I’m doing quite well.

Scott Luton (00:44):

Wonderful, wonderful. And Dino’s playing tricks on us. Dino, how you doing?

Constantine Limberakis (00:48):

I’m good. All good here in Chicago, <laugh>.

Scott Luton (00:51):

Well, great to have you with us, Greg. We’re pretty excited. Before we welcome everybody, we’re really excited to have Constantine start a, uh, a guest host role here at Supply Chain. Now, Greg, what do you think, if you had to describe to the audience, uh, and <laugh> one aspect of his worldview or, uh, his expertise, his perspective, what do you think their, that, uh, they can expect from, from Constantine here?

Greg White (01:18):

Smarter <laugh>,

Constantine Limberakis (01:24):

You guys are on, man, that’s pretty good. We’re, uh,

Greg White (01:28):

No, I mean, I think, you know, you know, you, you have made a career of researching and understanding the products, the, the practice, right? I mean, you’ve actually worked for analyst groups before. You do a lot of, of publishing research and, and that sort of thing. So I just think, you know, I would have to say more informed at the very least, but probably also Smarter. Scott <laugh>

Scott Luton (01:54):

And, and, and folks you may hear us use one of his nicknames and, and, you know, nicknames are terms of endearment for sure. Uh, so Constantine, aka a Dino,

Greg White (02:04):

Put out a poll, you know, so you don’t get to decide what your nickname is

Constantine Limberakis (02:10):

That already when we talked before, but,

Greg White (02:12):

Or Dino. Yeah.

Scott Luton (02:13):

So I’ll give you a chance in Constantine, respond to what, you know, Greg kind of spoke about, uh, your journey and, and what you bring to the table, your quick response before we, we welcome everybody else.

Constantine Limberakis (02:23):

Oh, yeah. Well, I appreciate that, Greg. I mean, you know, I think it’s true. It’s, it is a journey of how you’re building your opinions and, and trying to understand the trends. And it’s, you know, this combination of, uh, experience with what you’ve learned in school and what you, how do you apply those things together with the changes in technology and, you know, you have a, a, a worldview based on what you’ve seen and, um, be able to try to opine on something based on some educated guess of what you think is going on that perspective

Greg White (02:58):

And constantly evolving. Yes. Right. I mean, I, I think that’s important. That’s one thing that, you know, I admire about people like you who are, are in the industry, have been in the industry for a while, and, you know, we limit our, our confessions of, uh, tenure to no more than two decades. Um, <laugh>,

Scott Luton (03:20):

Why don’t we, we get a kick outta that. Yeah.

Greg White (03:22):

Which is laughable. As I’m doing the math in my head of mine. There are a relatively short list of people who continue to question the status quo, if you will, of, of the practice of the industry. And those are the people who help continue to evolve the practice. We’re gonna talk about some people who are backsliding big time, by the way, on this episode. So you’ll get to see the juxtaposition of people who don’t evolve versus people who do <laugh>.

Scott Luton (03:51):

Yeah, absolutely. Can’t wait for that. We’re gonna talk backsliding. We’re gonna talk about, uh, drug shortages. We’re gonna talk about Dino’s recent, uh, trip down to the Gartner Supply Chain Symposium. Some key takeaways there, and more so you’re in the right place, everybody. We’re gonna say, look, folks to <laugh> to, uh, I, I gotta share this. So Josh Goodie, great to see you. Supply Chain Emperor is a nickname, uh, that Josh suggests, uh, for Constantine. I love that, Josh, and hope you had a great weekend. Um, alright, so folks, uh, just a level set with some of you may, that may be new, uh, today, coming at you at 12 noon Eastern time every Monday. It’s a supply chain buzz where we talk about a variety of news and developments today across global business. And hey, we wanna hear from you as well. So, just like Josh did, throw your comments there in, in the chat, uh, chat bar, the cheap seats as we call them, and we’re gonna share them throughout, uh, in addition to our expertise and analysis of what’s going on.

Scott Luton (04:45):

And hey, if you’re listening to the podcast replay, which we drop on Fridays, typically of Monday’s Buzz, if you’re listening to a podcast replay, hey, come check us out live, uh, one Monday at 12 noon on LinkedIn or YouTube, or any other social media channels of your choosing. We’d love to hear from you. Okay, so let’s do this. We got, we wanna share, you know, we’re all about sharing resources here. Greg and Constantine and Greg, uh, not too long ago, we held the analysis, uh, live show of the US Bank Freight Payment Index for Q1 2023. This is a free resource, it comes out every quarter, mainly focused on, uh, shipping volume and spend. Folks, if you wanna sign up for it, go to freight.us bank.com or check out the link in the chat. Greg, what’s one thing folks can expect from this, uh, quarterly resource

Greg White (05:31):

Surprises, uh, some dramatic surprises and probably some, uh, enlightenment as to where we are in, in the market cycle right now. Yep. Take a look. It’s worth a look, especially this one, but always, every quarter.

Scott Luton (05:45):

That’s right. And we’re gonna make it easy. Thanks to our good friends at US Bank for offering that, uh, free resource. You sign up for it. Hit your inbox every, uh, quarter. And we’ve got the link to do so right there in the chat.

Greg White (05:57):

A bank that’s still in business. <laugh>,

Scott Luton (06:00):

New tagline. Yeah,

Greg White (06:01):

<laugh> and has the power to keep on going.

Scott Luton (06:03):

That is right. Yeah. Energizer. Yeah. Okay. A little note from the weekend, uh, Dino and Greg, before we get to do that though, uh, let’s say hello to a few folks. Of course, we mentioned Josh Goody, who’s always with us here from Seattle. It’s sunny and 72 degrees in Seattle at the moment. Uh, and Josh, we’ve got a new team member Wow. Up in your neck of the woods. We’re gonna have to get y’all connected, don’t we, Greg?

Greg White (06:24):

Yeah, no doubt.

Scott Luton (06:25):

Uh, Dino, you ever been to Seattle?

Constantine Limberakis (06:27):

You know, I have. I spoke, speaking of talking, I spoke at a conference, uh, when I was in Seattle. I literally had flown from London the day before, stopped at home and flew all the way to Seattle. The next day was wow, <laugh>. But I, I saw the needle. That was the key I saw the needle was,

Greg White (06:47):

Did you see the sun? That’s the,

Constantine Limberakis (06:49):

Did not See, that’s what I said.

Scott Luton (06:53):

<laugh>. All right. Well, Josh, great to have you here. Uh, Obi tuned in via LinkedIn. Great to see you here. Let us know where you’re tuned in from our dear friend Jose Montoya, doing really good things, uh, in creating great content, uh, over in, uh, California, Southern California. Jose, great to see you here. Uh, Manuela, great to see you via LinkedIn. Let us know we are tuned in from Geno, Jean Pledger from North Alabama. Great to see you here, Gina. I hope you had a wonderful, wonderful Mother’s Day weekend. Hopefully all of y’all did.

Greg White (07:22):

Jean, Jean, the supply chain machine.

Scott Luton (07:24):

Yeah. Oh man, that’s a, that’s great nickname there. And finally, Jerry, great to have you back with us once again. Uh, hailing from Smyrna, uh, in the metro Atlanta area, uh, via LinkedIn. Jerry, great to see you.

Greg White (07:36):

Or Smyrna, or Smyrna Sm I’ve heard it said all three ways just for the world’s knowledge in Georgia. <laugh>, it’s Smyrna, right?

Scott Luton (07:46):

Oh, man. All right. So Dino and Gray, I wanna share a little highlight I had over the weekend. I’m gonna pop this graphic up here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So this movie named Air, uh, in a nutshell, it’s all about how Air Jordans came about. And it is got an all-star cast. Uh, it tells a really, if, you know, if you’re a kid of the eighties, uh, certainly like I am, um, you know, air Jordans, you know them well. I don’t think I’ve ever owned a pair cuz they’re really, they were really expensive when they first came out and ever since. But this is such a wonderful story and one tie in. Greg, Greg, you, Dino, I don’t think I’ve seen it yet, but, um, at least the story that the movie tells, and I still gotta dive into the real story, right? Cuz you know, Hollywood, you got Hollywood versions and you got how it really happened, maybe, but

Greg White (08:32):

Artistic license. Yes.

Scott Luton (08:34):

Artistic license, yes. Um, but I loved how, um, I think Dolores Jordan, I w I think was her name, uh, was Michael Jordan’s mother and man, she really, she led the negotiations and, uh, included the tidbit that, uh, Michael Jordan gets, um, uh, gets like a spiff on every pair of Air Jordans ever sold. And just how, uh, um, how impactful and pivotal she was to help build the business version of the Michael Jordan we all know and love. What a great, great story. Greg. Uh, have you ever owned a pair of Air Jordans? Uh, and anything about the legend that they have become? Any, any comments there?

Greg White (09:20):

I have. Um, so I played basketball in high school and we got air, I think, I don’t know all the model numbers, but the second version, if those were air twos,

Scott Luton (09:32):

Okay.

Greg White (09:32):

I think they were. I

Scott Luton (09:33):

Think you’re right.

Greg White (09:34):

Um, we got the air twos. You actually played basketball in those shoes back in the day, right? <laugh>? Right now. Now you wouldn’t dare try to scuff ’em up by actually playing a sport in them. Uh, I remember that because we switched from Converse, which still made leather tennis shoes. Right? I mean, really good tennis shoes back then, or basketball shoes I should say. Yep. Um, we switched from Converse to Nike. Yep. That year. Yeah.

Scott Luton (09:59):

Well, and, and then I’ll get your thoughts next. Michael Jordan, as the story plays out, he was a big Adidas fan, right? And, and, and Nike was still trying to break the way into the basketball market. And they, they had just a handful of superstars that would, that would endorse their shoes. Just a great story. Dino, how about you? You ever had a pair of Air Jordans?

Constantine Limberakis (10:19):

Uh, no. I was more of a guy.

Greg White (10:25):

Constant. That’s what we should call you.

Constantine Limberakis (10:29):

There you go. No, I’ve never, but I obviously had a lot of friends at

Greg White (10:33):

Mr. He <laugh>.

Scott Luton (10:35):

What’s that? Fast times at Ridgemont. He right. Fast time.

Greg White (10:38):

Yep. That’s right. Yep. Very good. Awesome. Made vans, especially the checkerboard ones. Famous for sure. Really.

Scott Luton (10:44):

Hey folks. Uh, if you’re looking for, uh, a great movie, and man, it’s tough to find good movies these days, but y’all check out air, you can get it on, I think Amazon and Hope. Let us know what you think. Um, alright, so let’s get into the first story here today, Greg and Dino. Uh, we’re talking about drug shortages, right? So I wanna start with, um, you know, the White House has been giving this area a lot more attention lately as, uh, we’ve seen, unfortunately, drug shortages, including some common antibiotics, hit a five year high in 2022. Almost 300 total. Uh, drug shortages were reported by the end of the year. As we all know, farmer production has been shifting for decades. There’s a ton of moving pieces, so I’m not, you know, it’s gonna be tough to give the entire industry and all the shifts.

Scott Luton (11:34):

Ju uh, uh, it’s due in two minutes time, but Greg and Dino, I wanna share a couple of important background pieces, and then I’ll get y’all’s take on what we’re seeing, uh, out in the industry and how the White House is putting together super secret, uh, task forces to do something about it. So, uh, what you need to know is APIs or active pharmaceutical ingredients is a critical ingredient in drugs, whether they’re generic or otherwise. Now, as of August, 2019, and it’s tough to get updated information. Uh, there’s so much, uh, there’s a lack of clarity oftentimes, uh, across the international, uh, drug industry. But according to f D A, as of August 20th, 2019, only 28% of the manufacturing facilities making these APIs to, to supply the US market were in the US of the remaining 72%. Uh, in 2019, 13% were in China. China and India have both, uh, in fact grown their pharmaceutical industries tremendously.

Scott Luton (12:31):

Now, of course, on one hand that’s helped keep some prices down, but since regulation and safety inspections aren’t as rigorous as they are here in the states, that’s also introduced more safety issues. One last note here, as, as you see the title up at the top, as article points out since the beginning of 2023, the Biden administration has formed a task force that is debating different approaches to address the shortages. Now, Greg, your thoughts as it relates to what we’re seeing out there, uh, with, with these drug shortages or what the federal government may or may not be able to do about it?

Greg White (13:07):

Well, let’s start by reinforcing the fact that we’re talking almost exclusively when we talk about drug shortages of generics, which means those are at least 25 year old drugs that have come off of their patent. Right? They’re usually widely, um, applicable drugs. Things like omi, Omeprazole, which use used to be nex i m and now is all sorts of generics and private labeled, and now even has been declassified all the way down to an over the otc right. Over the counter drug. So that’s a industry that has a lot of stability in demand because the demand grows by prescription. Mm-hmm. Right? And, and it grows as people convert from branded, you know, once the incentives go off, doctors cease to prescribe the branded mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, product and, and begin to prescribe the generics. Mm. That’s an important thing to address. And the other is 13%, only 13% of the 72% that isn’t produced in the states is produced by China and India.

Greg White (14:13):

Yep. So it doesn’t seem like in this case, and it’s nice to be able to say this, that those two marketplaces are the bottlenecks here. So I wonder what it is the US sources and, and produces a far larger chunk of the product than, than China and India do. So where does the problem really lie? Is one question we have to discover. What can we practically do about it? And where is the rest of that production? I didn’t see it in the article. I missed it if it was in there. Yep. But I didn’t see where the rest of that production occurs. And I think we also have to acknowledge that this is our own fault, <laugh>, because we had branded, patented and generics all produced in the States as well. The place that they were produced wouldn’t call themselves part of the states Puerto Rico, but in a United States territory. And we disincentivize the pharmaceutical manufacturers, so they moved overseas. Yep. So to me, the answer seems fairly simple, which is bring the incentives back. Right. Figure out a way to make those affordable. One other assertion I had to chuckle at was the FDA calling themselves underfunded Mm. To approach this problem <laugh>. So yes,

Constantine Limberakis (15:21):

For sure.

Scott Luton (15:21):

All right. So Dino, what about you? What’s your take? What we’re seeing, well,

Constantine Limberakis (15:25):

I, this, this topic comes close to, to my best because, uh, I have a contact, can’t name names, but someone close to me that, uh, was in the pharmaceutical industry for over five years, uh, as a chemist, organic synthesis chemist. And, uh, he was, when I asked him about this question, he is like, when you’re dealing with the api, he says oftentimes, and you nailed it on the head, Greg is with the, not with the generics, or at least with non-generic, I think is what he said. He said that to keep them down the Synthes, the synthesize the chemistry, right? So they have this api, the component, and then they try to synthesize that through chemistry to figure out an alternative way from the natural ingredient. Right. And he says that the late stage part of it usually is done in the United States because that’s where the IP comes in.

Constantine Limberakis (16:17):

But most of that other work is done overseas in China and India because of cost. That was straight up this point. And what he’s noticing now is that, um, they’re starting to also look at alternative locations. Um, I think there was some tariff that was put in there, article, Harvard Business Review about this India imposed export ban during the pandemic mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that created a lot of tension. And he told me also that, um, one of the places that they’re starting to look at are places like Eastern Europe. So cause of that cost factor with the arbitrage and an educated labor force mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’re looking at places like that, which you wouldn’t have thought of in the past, but that might be, uh, an, a good way for, uh, an alternative for the manufacturer where we don’t get this challenge and bringing it home.

Scott Luton (17:09):

Yeah. Ar Ireland, uh, Greg going back, it’s so good stuff there, you know, uh, Ireland, uh, Greg as you were talking about, you know, where are some of all these things manufactured that was surprising list, uh, up near the top, uh, of the, um, of the drugs we get from the European Union? Uh, I think a couple of, as I was diving in deeper and trying to understand, cause man, there’s so much going on here when we talk about the pharmaceutical industry. But a couple of things, uh, I was reading a New York Times article about how, uh, domestic penicillin has really changed dramatically, especially since the eighties when the Chinese government invested heavily in, uh, penicillin fermenters. And it, it, it, it changed the whole market globally for penicillin producers and in their efforts kind of cornered that critical, uh, drug. Right? And then secondly, what I was reading from the World Health Organization, right? W h o there’s a lot of concern in China about how much they use antibiotics in mass and how that is developing a, uh, I forgot the phrase they use, and clearly I did not do organic chemistry, but it’s, it’s creating, uh, resistance in the bodies right. To them. And, and so the, the W H O is really trying to drive awareness and action on how we can address that. So, lots of moving pieces, but Greg, your response to what Dina was sharing, uh, with his insider information?

Greg White (18:31):

Well, uh, let me address a couple things. One, Ireland was large, was more about tax savings and profit shielding than, ah, than anything else, which is anything to do with intellectual property in Ireland. Um, many companies, including tech companies did that used to do this thing. They’ve now retooled it, it was called a double Irish Dutch sandwich, where you’d pass intellectual property between a bunch of companies in Ireland and the Netherlands and Bermuda to shield yourself from taxes in either the UK or the United States. I think anywhere, anywhere we can do this work besides China, because it’s China and because of India, outside of India, because they have some significant challenges with safety there. I mean, the workforce isn’t quite there and the infrastructure isn’t quite there to assure, you know, the type of safety that we require in the states is important. The other thing that is important to acknowledge here is this is a shifty industry.

Greg White (19:28):

Generics. It’s very, I mean, I, I’ve worked with pharmaceutical distributors and manufacturers, and this generic business is very shady. Hmm. So there’s not a lot of transparency. A lot of these companies, you know, don’t want to share. So that’s gonna be a hindrance. Now I think the big companies like Teva, um, which is an enormous company, you know, or enormous generic, I think they will or probably will be forced to provide some transparency, which is, is fair to say is whatever they can provide is likely universal throughout the industry. So that’s gonna be a critical aspect of resolving this. Um, but there, you know, there’s just a lot that’s unknown, frankly, even to the distributors and of course to the medical practitioners about the industry. And that’s gonna be a real struggle. Yeah. You’re almost gonna have to impose penalties for not revealing information in order to, to solve this problem. Mm-hmm.

Scott Luton (20:25):

Mm-hmm. Well, good stuff there, Greg and Dina, we’ll have to get your, uh, your source, uh, to give us more of what’s going on behind the scenes. Cause as to Greg’s point, man, it is, it, it’s, it’s like, uh, you know, peeling an onion, man. You pull one layer, you got another layer, another layer, another layer. Uh, so, um, your last thought here, Dino, on this, this topic of drug shortages, before we move on to another Brighton Cherry topic of supply chain cyber attacks. Your last thought, Dina?

Constantine Limberakis (20:52):

Yeah, I, I think, I think part of the way to solve the problem too is I was just reading something that was posted on the fda and they’re talking about this concept of advanced manufacturing and the, the concept of it being technologies that will improve the quality, address, the shortages, the speed to market, maybe using even AI to help put that together. And we’ll talk a little bit about AI later on. But again, some of these advanced techniques that will help the science get better and help develop things quicker and not rely, uh, because of that cost factor that we talked about before, which is the whole reason why we went to India and China in the first place that could help transform the way we manufacture drugs in this country. So innovation, I guess is the way, how do we change it? Innovation.

Scott Luton (21:38):

Well said. All right. Couple quick comments here. James. Uh, references a 2023 annual threat assessment, uh, about China controlling 40% of our, uh, a p i to produce medical drugs. James, uh, that’s a good piece. And if you got a link, we’d love to see it. It, it kind of depends on, uh, on how you categorize, you know, there’s a lot of bad numbers and bad data that folks are using for different reasons. But shoot us up. Shoot us that link. I’d love to dive into that. Uh, Josh says, Lithuania has a few labs that some big companies use. He didn’t see any reports of Turkey after the last earthquake. Uh, Jerry’s talking about, Hey, is Mexico or South America an option for low cost production?

Greg White (22:15):

I think the last thing we wanna do is introduce more motivation to fool around with drugs in South America or Mexico.

Scott Luton (22:26):

<laugh>. Right? Let’s do this, Greg and Dan and Dino, let’s shift gears over to supply chain cyber attacks. So this isn’t gonna surprise a lot of folks. I wanna pull out one nugget. This is a great read. Check it out. But from drug shortages, right? In cherry topic to a continued massive increase of cybersecurity issues across global supply chain. Great read here from Forbes, uh, and a couple nuggets here. So, according to some reports, documented supply chain cyber tax, were up over 600% in 2022. Of course, that rise has continued moving into 2023. Here we’re almost halfway through the years. Unbelievable. Now, some experts point to a change in approach by many bad actors and hackers as an increase in corporate security, which is good news, has the bad guys targeting software vendors and other system providers more often. And finally, as this article points out, the key part of any cyber risk strategy is to put emphasis and resources into building a comprehensive incident response program, which will help contain, uh, the cyber attacks and minimize damage. Cause it’s not a question when you get attacked, it’s, um, it’s how bad it is, uh, on one thought. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, Greg, Greg, your thoughts here. What, what we’re seeing in this continued environment of, uh, supply chain cyber risk, this

Greg White (23:42):

Is part of the downside of the awareness that has been shed on supply chain since the great toilet paper shortage of 2020, right? So, um, now these hackers know, oh, there might be a weak spot, right? So in 2013, right, they attacked the whatever the H V A C folks, right? Working on target stores. Now they’re, now they go, oh, well they have all these supply chain vendors and technology providers, right? In all honesty, a lot of these fledgling technology providers, they do play pretty fast and loose with cybersecurity. And now fortunately, a lot of companies have built regulatory compliance methodologies that force these companies to be, you know, to get SOC whatever and ISO this and all that other that, you know, so that it is yeah, safer anyway, encrypting files, you know, all of that kind of thing. Encryption points on both ends, et cetera.

Greg White (24:40):

So I think that will come around. But if you’re working with a relatively fledgling startup, there’s a lot of risk there. Mm, mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So part of the benefit though, is those are harder to find. I mean, it’s harder for a hacker to, to find them unless they target a company that is kind of a classic early adopter who may have more exposure there. Mm. But it is, to your point, Scott, it’s not whether you’ve been hacked in many cases, it’s when they’ll activate it. It’s not even whether you will be attacked. Many, many companies have had some sort of something planted in there, and now there’s a social engineering process underway, and then they’ll determine when they’ve got access to enough information and or capital to execute. Yep.

Scott Luton (25:25):

Well said Greg. Uh, Constantine, give us more good news. <laugh>.

Constantine Limberakis (25:29):

Well, good or bad. I guess connecting the dots on that. I think the whole thing about the offshoring and outsourcing of the, the drug development as a classic case in point of how mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what kinda integrity, you know, are, are, are high, uh, import, you know, our most strategic industries are like pharmaceutical, like aerospace and defense, where they can’t have these third parties, uh, that they’re working with, that in some cases might be a secondary, a tertiary supplier, right? And that’s part of the problem here is, is you’re dealing with multiple tiers of these supply chains and increasing complexity. And that’s what adds to this problem. To Greg’s point, I mean, that’s the classic one with the H V A C, but maybe that was a tier one. At what point, if, how, how deep do you go into the supply chain, right? There’s a hack that’s going on that we don’t even know about.

Constantine Limberakis (26:21):

And I think there’s a, a real good statistic here. It was, I think from ibm. Um, the average cost of a data breach in 2022 was 4.35 million. And they say that this year, the figure is expected to grow to 5 million. So just cause of the increased digitization. So as we go more digital, we increase our exposure mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that creates these problems that unanticipated consequences of advancing innovation, right? And so I think the key here is, is the number of suppliers that you keep adding. And the other thing we’re seeing are the elements of how it vendor risk, supply chain risk, and even the E s G reputation risk. Now, here are you seeing this convergence of this around cyber, right? And we could talk about this on the Gartner, on the Gartner as aspect, but there’s some interesting aspects here of why this is so critical and how figured out

Scott Luton (27:17):

A lot to dive into. And yeah, I can’t wait to get your key takeaways from the Gartner event. Um, but, uh, Greg, excellent point. Uh, you and Dina appreciate the, you know, supply chain, global security, the curve balls keep coming. And, uh, Greg, as I think as you started in to say in your response, you know, technology’s a double double-edged sword, right? The good actors have the technology innovations and the breakthroughs, and unfortunately the bad actors do too

Greg White (27:45):

Well in that awareness, right? We’ve been begging in supply chain for to be recognized. Well, we’ve been recognized and there’s a lot that comes along with it. That’s right. Additional accountability and additional targeting. So we have to really step up and embrace good, better, much better business practice to yes, to protect the companies that we are serving.

Scott Luton (28:07):

Cyber hygiene. We gotta keep making.

Greg White (28:09):

Ooh, I like that

Scott Luton (28:10):

<laugh>. All right. You like that too, Dina? Huh? I

Scott Luton (28:14):

<laugh>, quick little blurb here. I want to, you know, we’re all about providing resources as we help our listeners and their organizations, you know, fight through this environment we’re in and make gains. So, hey, check us out on June 20th, 12 New Eastern Time. Now this is a webinar with our friends at, uh, Opti Logic and ch uh, Robinson. We’re gonna be talking about five reasons. Network design is essential to supply chain resiliency, or if you’d rather, uh, supply chain anti fragility, which is one of our terms we like around here. Now you guys sign up for this session. Uh, the link will be in the chat and we’d welcome y’all to join us for what should be, uh, a great conversation. All right. So Greg and Constantine, before we get into, uh, we got one more fun article on the apparel industry that I can’t wait, I can’t wait to get Greg Greg’s, uh, take on.

Scott Luton (29:04):

But Adino, you just got back from Orlando, Florida, I bet. Sunny and already early warm, uh, Orlando. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you’re down there. Attended the Gartner Supply Chain Symposium we referenced on the front end, uh, out amongst the people, the movers and shakers absorbing it all. And then Greg, as he shared, I I think he shared this in the Green Room prior, uh, on a pre show after the fact, he goes and downloads every single presentation that was available and distills it all down into this pure golden nugget of takeaways that he’s gonna be sharing with us. Greg, did I get that right? Did I get that right?

Greg White (29:40):

I think so. Okay. That, that’s what he’s telling us. <laugh>. And how will we ever know? Because I would never attempt such a thing,

Constantine Limberakis (29:46):

<laugh>,

Scott Luton (29:46):

Right? That is right. So Dino, I’d love to get, I think we’ve got three of your key takeaways from all the goodness down there at Gartner Supply Chain Symposium. Let’s start with number one. All

Constantine Limberakis (29:57):

Right. So, you know, I’ll, I would say just having attended before I jumped into that just really quick Sure. It was, I think they say they reached a record post Covid, just the number of people that were there. So it was absolutely, um, crazy and hearing the amount of people and all the conversations. But I think if I had to boil it down into three nuggets, the first one, so you guys remember the Bullwinkle cartoon,

Scott Luton (30:24):

Rocky and Bullwinkle,

Constantine Limberakis (30:25):

Right? And you had the same character. The SWA fair is everywhere. <laugh>, remember that guy? Oh,

Greg White (30:31):

Yeah.

Constantine Limberakis (30:32):

Was

Greg White (30:32):

That on Rocky and Bull?

Constantine Limberakis (30:34):

Yes, I think so. I’m pretty sure was Love that character. Well, there, so I’m gonna say AI is everywhere. Mm. That was it. Everyone was talking about machine learning, natural language processing, and of course the explosion of what we call generative ai, A k a chat, g p T. There was all these conversations around how we’re doing this. And it’s just something you couldn’t get away from. And from every level, at every level of, from the front end of supply chain, you know, the analytics, the sourcing, the automated sourcing to intelligence behind where you can distribute more easily to the supply chain risks and, and anticipating the disruption. So that was one of the key things that was just pervasive.

Scott Luton (31:20):

I wanna dive in really quick. Yes. Uh, Dino, so the first one is AI is everywhere. Yes. So, Greg, I’d love for you to weigh in. Cause I love when you talk about, and, uh, Dino, I bet you could see it real AI in some presentations and conversations and then like, it’s the thing to say in others. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, in other conversations, Greg, anything you wanna weigh in on the real artificial intelligence that you like talking about?

Greg White (31:45):

Yeah, so it, it’s less and less of somebody faking ai. The most of those companies stop getting funding, thankfully <laugh>. Um, but there’s also a much greater predominance of people using AI platforms and not developing their own science and those sorts of things. But really training like a, an Azure or an a w s or a Google AI platform for a particular problem, which is great. It’s just not very versatile. There are still companies out there and when investing, right? We differentiate dramatically between these companies. Mm-hmm. There are still companies out there with data scientists who are building their own AI generative models and their own generative techniques. And it, it’s a fine line, but there’s a real difference there. They are essentially some companies building their own platform instead of just training someone else’s models. Right. It’s like they’re creating their own kids to teach instead of mm-hmm.

Greg White (32:45):

<affirmative>, instead of training someone else’s kids to do it. <laugh>. That’s a very distinct difference in the industry because that company that has their own really unique methodology, even of using a, a well-established practice like generative ai, like you talked about, Dino, if they have their own platform rather than using someone else’s platform, obviously that has much greater value and there’s a lot more ease in building a moat around that. Hmm. So that will be conflated over the next few years. This notion of whether companies are actually building something or if they’re just training someone else’s model mm-hmm. <affirmative> as this becomes the next go-go thing that everybody piles onto, like they did control towers and visibility in, you know, in logistics, people will at first go O ai, that’s really cool. Invest, invest, invest. Right? Love, buy whatever. Uh, and then they’ll realize that some of that stuff is less robust and less agile Mm. And effective than others. Mm-hmm.

Scott Luton (33:45):

Good stuff there, Greg. Uh, alright. So going back to the supply chain emperor, uh, Constantine, <laugh>, Greg said, Mo, I had to, I had to bring that one back out. Uh, so as, as duly named by our friend, uh, Josh, sorry, Josh, our friend in Seattle. All right. So Constantine, the first one is AI is everywhere.

Constantine Limberakis (34:03):

AI is everywhere. Uh, and the, to connect to the dots to what Greg was talking about of what they were using, whether they were using somebody else’s library or they’re using their own developed ip, I think that’s a really fantastic point. Yeah.

Greg White (34:18):

But

Constantine Limberakis (34:18):

In order for you to make sense out of it and make sure that AI works, it’s all about the data and the data analytics. And then you say it’s all about the data stupid, because that’s what you need. You need that information for these algorithms to make sense. And I think one of the classic challenges that I’ve encountered is you go to every booth and you see all these providers there, you see the large ones. You’ve got the IBMs, you have the coupons, you had the large providers there, and then you’ve got the smaller booths. And it’s the classic challenge of a person in supply chain, whether they’re on the procurement side or the logistics or on the distribution side, or they’re in, they’re involved in sustainability somehow with fleet, whatever that problem is they’re trying to solve, there’s thise scope of solutions that’s out there that you have to make sense.

Constantine Limberakis (35:09):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I don’t envy the practitioners that say, you got this much budget, you gotta go here and you’ve gotta figure out with what you’ve got. Because in the end, everybody’s footprint in this technologies that they’re using is gonna be a little different. And so how do you tune that to come up with the proper solution? So the takeaway there is that how do you leverage that data effectively, and what’s the means you’re gonna do it? Are you gonna use a best to breed solution to bring that all in? Yeah. Or are we gonna use a platform to do that and try to make sense out of it that way? Or use some combination of both? And I’m sure, Greg, you’ve got some insights here from the investor perspective, but that, that’s always gonna be the challenge and the rate, that pace of that innovation of how you’re gonna use that data and then makes sense out of it. Yeah.

Greg White (35:54):

There’s a couple things that I see. One is, do you need AI for that problem? I think a lot of people are leaping to ai, for instance, people are using AI for forecasting, but mostly what they’re doing is they’re using an AI technique to do best fit forecasting, which was done using statistical techniques up to that point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> to me, the problem is not selecting the best technique. To me, the problem in forecasting is forecasting the wrong thing. Mm. Because most of what we forecast, for instance, in supply chain is really post casting. It’s looking at what happened before and going, some variation of that will likely happen next, right? So we’re gonna say to people, those 10,000 people that bought this thing last year, maybe you know them and they’re gonna influence you to buy it this year, but that’s not, that hardly ever happens, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think we have to acknowledge that they’re definitely some advancements that we can make in supply chain that don’t require AI or that AI should be more effectively applied to, rather than some of these things where I think of this whole AI best fit forecasting thing as kind of a gimmick like chat g pt, a party trick, right? Mm-hmm. They’re much more valuable things to apply artificial intelligence to than those tasks. Yep.

Scott Luton (37:11):

If I add to that, uh, Greg, I, I’ll spend time this morning, I’m gonna be in Chicago doing a fireside chat with a supply chain executive and technologist that’s leading thousands and thousands of team members of a well-known retailer to get better and better. And as we were talking about some of the themes and some of their experiences, one of the things he spoke to Gray is exactly what you’re talking about. He’s like, I wanna slow folks down from jumping on to the latest and greatest technologies, and let’s talk about a, what is a quantifiable business challenge we’re trying to solve? And start there and then figure out what the approach is. And so anyway, if you have folks, if you’re in Chicago at Reuters, supply chain s usa, uh, we’ll be up there Thursday and hopefully you can, uh, take in some of the great sessions that we’re part of and, and Dino looking forward to breaking bread with you in person. All right. So I lost count here, uh, as all that part of one. Okay. We’re on, we’re all number two. Okay. Go right ahead.

Constantine Limberakis (38:06):

Now we’re on three, right? We

Scott Luton (38:07):

Now we’re on three <laugh>. Uh, it’s all about the data. So

Greg White (38:11):

Reiterate one and two for us. And when I say us, I mean mostly me. That’s

Constantine Limberakis (38:16):

Ok. We combine the one and it’s technologies you bring together and how is ai? The third is a theme that I know you guys have both talked about digital transformation. I remember talking about this topic when I was back at Hackett, you know, several years ago. And this is something that’s ongoing, right? And the aspect that I wanted to get get at here was that it’s the digital transformation continuing to invest and using it within the context of funding sustainability. So this technology going towards AI and data analytics, really focusing on boosting efficiency and profitability, which has always been there, but then also improving sustainability. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and it’s the aspect of sustainability, which is really interesting, is it’s not just what we think of traditional sustainability of, um, you know, uh, where we wanna make sure that it’s viable in the environment and viable with in the E S G concept. Cause I by, by the way, did not hear much about the term SG when I was there. Mm-hmm. It’s much more also about viability a better way, but also making sure that you have product and that you are sustainable in the, in the sense of having that and making sure you can sustain your production and doing it within those things. So it’s the other usage of that term. We’re

Greg White (39:32):

Gonna almost have to create another term for that, because sustainability has basically been hijacked by esg. Correct. Whatever business sustainability is. Continuity, right? Maintainability, feasibility, whatever it is what you’re talking about, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Constantine Limberakis (39:48):

Yeah. And, and, and you’re right. And so that is important to become sustainable into the future. So it’s that kind of bilateral usage of the term. But, you know, you look at some of the stats out there about the investment, I think this says the US and the EU according to Forbes, says that they’re currently spending 1.4 trillion on environmental sustainability and climate adaptation. So this is specifically to that part of it. And there’s also 17.5 billion in VC funding for green tech. So I don’t even wanna validate that, but you saw a lot of that there, and that was very interesting when you’re walking through and hearing those, those aspects of what providers are popping up because of those opportunities.

Scott Luton (40:30):

Mm. Uh, Greg, any additional thoughts there as we, as we wrap on that third one?

Greg White (40:35):

Yeah. Well, I think, uh, I think an important notion is that, uh, you know, due to politics and whatever other manipulation by the press and the politicians, there is this notion that E S G is costly to companies. And if we think about what most people think about when they’re discussing E S G, it’s mostly emissions, right? E means environmental, but it, it, but really the e stands for emissions these days. And if you’re reducing emissions, you’re also reducing cost. So I, I will contend until the day that I die that those are not mutually exclusive goals and that it’s okay to, and it makes sense to target both of those things. The efficiencies that Constantine you were talking about, that continue to remain in the forefront. And I think as the impact of the covid restrictions wear off in terms of their impacts on supply chain, we’ll start to backslide back to being a cost-based industry rather than a risk balancing industry, which I’ve advocated for a long time.

Greg White (41:36):

But I think you can accommodate all of those masters. You can assure good quality and reliability and speed and ethics, which is what I call the E S G aspect of it and cost. And again, you don’t have to be a slave to the, or you can have the freedom of the and and attack all of those things at once. Now, attacking all those things at once is very complex, which goes back to 0.2, which is why AI for the vast combinatorial analytics scenarios that we face in supply chain becomes a really valuable, uh, technique in terms of solving that problem. Mm-hmm.

Scott Luton (42:15):

<affirmative>, the freedom of the, and the freedom of the, and versus the tyranny of the or. Uh, and also, uh, as Dino said, number two quote, it’s all about the data. Stupid. Uh, I love that. Right. Um, alright, I gotta get caught up here on a couple comments. We got some, some dear friends that have rejoined us. Uh, first off, hey Jacob, I appreciate you joining us. Uh, hope to see on that webinar coming up soon, ever ready to attend this to unlock our blinding chains in Africa as well. Uh, Jacob, appreciate you being here. And then Mark, mark Gillum, Greg, you remember Mark Gillum? Yep. Uh, the rebate evangelist, uh, created, uh, quite a stir here with, uh, uh, perspective that resonated with lots members, a lot of members of our audience. Now, mark says, is there a risk we lose skills and become too dependent on others by trusting the AI black box? So any quick thoughts there, Greg or Dino? On Mark’s question,

Greg White (43:12):

I think AI is probably the best thing to capture the skills that we’re already losing anyway. Baby boomers are fleeing the workforce 10,000 a day. And as I feel like I repeat too frequently, you know, I know we have a different audience for every show, right? Right. 3.1 million extra baby boomers retired during 2021. And that is largely tribal knowledge, right? That is not documented knowledge. So I think the only saving grace for companies is to capture that knowledge, impart that knowledge into AI mechanisms, and utilize and adapt that knowledge to be used for the undertrained undereducated in this practice. I mean, incoming workforce, right? And use that as valuable information to both inform and augment their performance in the workplace. Hmm.

Scott Luton (44:03):

Dino, anything to add there?

Constantine Limberakis (44:04):

I would just say real quick, I always think we gotta leverage AI in the context of what is it meant to do. It’s meant to take simp tasks that are easily, be easily replicable and changeable and take the stuff that’s unique to the human form that we gotta keep investing in. And that’s where we need to go. And I think this fashion industry conversation we’re gonna bring up is part and parcel why it’s been very difficult to use AI in

Scott Luton (44:30):

Retail. Ah, it’s a great segue. <laugh> man, Constantine, you’re a natural. So with that, and I know we can’t get everybody’s comments. Jerry’s got a great question here. I’d love to get y’all’s take. Uh, there all of y’all in the cheap seats to Jerry, uh, Levy’s question there. Uh, enjoy. Hey, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate that. Great to have you here, uh, via LinkedIn. Yeah. Um, alright, so let’s get into the, the fourth and final topic here today. Look at this picture. So folks, some of y’all may be listening to us. Uh, I’ve got a big old fax machine <laugh> pulled up as we dive into this last topic here. So, uh, it’s all about the apparel industry powered, and y’all gotta check out this read from our forensic at supply chain dive, which I’ll just read that Top apparel suppliers out of Vogue as they resist tech investments.

Scott Luton (45:17):

That’s the, uh, title of this piece. So did you know Greg and Dino, the state of California once boasted some 9,000 apparel factories? Now that number is down to about 2000 according to this article. So to set the tone here, I mentioned the fax machine. This article starts off by talking about a fabric company that requests may, maybe not mandates, but it requests orders are sent in by fax machine. Evidently, uh, the apparel industry has been slow to embrace technology due to a variety of reasons, of course costs, but every industry in every sector has that, right? And there are some industry nuances in apparel such as apparel development, and I’m no expert here, but apparel development evidently has traditionally been a very manual process to come up with, you know, new clothes and whatnot. But my question to both of y’all, Greg and Dino, is this one, can every industry, every sector, uh, offer all sorts of excuses for not embracing technology? Greg, let’s start with you.

Greg White (46:16):

They can just not as artistically and convincingly as the apparel industry. Um, I mean, you know, it it is art. There is art in, in designing clothes, for instance, right? And it is typically done if not on paper, on some other medium wherein, you know, you, you draw it, you mark it up, you scratch it out and you draw something else. <laugh>. But is there an excuse for that? I mean, I mean, I didn’t even know fax machines still existed except at banks, American banks, <laugh>, um, which is about the only place they do still exist. But I’m stunned frankly by this because there are so many mediums remarkable. Has anyone ever heard of a remarkable, it’s a notepad that’s just like writing on paper. You can draw, do art on it, all sorts of things. There are electronic, you know, if you, if you have to do it standing up, there are entire boards where you can draw in similar fashion.

Greg White (47:12):

I mean, if that’s the reason that we’re holding back, I can’t validate that as this as a sound reason, but I have a feeling it’s not just that, it’s just that, I mean, <laugh> we all, sorry, I’m sorry, I’m, I really struggle with this particular aspect of it. We have offloaded the work from hardworking, legitimate businesses to sweatshops in third world shitholes around the world where people are basically driven into slave labor. And of course people who do that kind of business aren’t going to invest in technology because as we talked about earlier, technology opens you up to observation and transparency. So there’s a lot of intent in the industry because of that. Yep. So I think we, you know, we have to acknowledge that, and Constantine, to your earlier point on, you know, on several fronts, we have to balance the cost, the efficiency, and the fairness of business in, in these transactions and discussions and processes. And, um, and I’ll argue till the day is done that even design is part of the supply chain because it’s, it is the butterfly wing flap that starts everything else in motion for the supply chain. Mm-hmm.

Scott Luton (48:34):

Alright, so Dino, I’d love to get your take here on, uh, whether the

Greg White (48:41):

Out loud. I did, didn’t I? <laugh>,

Constantine Limberakis (48:46):

Couple things. You’re keeping it

Scott Luton (48:47):

Real. Go ahead, Dina.

Constantine Limberakis (48:48):

Couple things. One, when I saw the fax machine, I was, I was still shocked. I was like, yeah, I’m like, I don’t, I don’t know, I just can’t comprehend. I was really surprised just doing some research on the fact that there still is manufacturing in the LA area, this concentration and I’m wondering on this, yeah,

Greg White (49:09):

That many thousand is a lot still, isn’t it?

Constantine Limberakis (49:12):

It’s still a lot, right? And you’re wondering, is there a factor there? Is there a whole other question around immigration there? And that kind of, that’s a whole other show, right? And so that’s a dynamic there that I think needs to be considered in terms of what the reticence is to move. But then there was a law that was passed that basically noted that, uh, in California recently that stated that, um, here it was passed in January 22, it said it’s illegal for garment workers to be paid peace rates. So they can’t be paid based on the pieces that they do, but they now have to be paid hourly. So even with all that reporting and compliance going on in California, they’re always cutting the edge with regulations as we know. Mm.

Constantine Limberakis (49:53):

That even there then what is that? Is that preventing, is that increased cost preventing them from investing in the technology cause of that? I, I dunno, we’d have to talk. And I think the third piece that I’d like to bring up is from a manufacturing standpoint, my understanding is part of the reason why it’s so difficult is that there’s a malleability when it comes to the design. So if you’re dealing with like rigid structures like steel and plastic 3D printing, that’s easy to replicate and manufacture and hard code and replicate. But when you’re dealing with the clothing and the layering and it’s that fabric, I, I guess the machines aren’t as sensitive to that. I dunno, maybe there’s an aspect there that makes fashion different, but that’s my understanding of why maybe they have been more reticent to adopt more automation as part of this process because things have to be fixed and stitched differently and differently. So it takes that human, I guess, cognitive ability to understand that it’s wrong. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and at what point can that change? So maybe those are my three takeaways from reading this article.

Scott Luton (50:56):

Hey Greg, before you respond, I gotta share Joey’s comment here. Uh, Joey says, I hate the age myself, but fax machines were a breaking age, uh, technical age development about halfway through my 40 year career. Joey, thanks for sharing. Um, alright. So Greg, I know you wanted to respond maybe to what the three things that Dino just laid out there.

Greg White (51:15):

Well, first of all, Dino, that’s very diplomatic and um, <laugh>, and I appreciate your presumption of noble intent, but how costly is it to replace a fax machine with the phone on your camera and an email, for instance? Mm. I mean, that’s not that much more sophisticated, but it’s not a fax machine, it’s digital, it’s can be made manipulable, all of those sorts of things. I, I can’t help but feel there is something else at play here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now all, all of your points around the types of fabrics and that sort of thing are legitimate, but that’s not really what you communicate, for instance, over a fax machine or with spreadsheets. Right. And to your point earlier, spreadsheets are not digital transformation <laugh>. Right? Spreadsheets are digital manual processes is all they are. I, I’d say digital might even be stretching it because there’s not, you know, there’s all all kinds of missing elements to using a spreadsheet. But I am stunned, honestly, I am absolutely baffled. I can’t find a single good reason why these suppliers are holding back unless there is some intent to obfuscate there, or at least remain semi-anonymous. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? They’re off the grid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So.

Scott Luton (52:38):

All right, Greg and Dino, we’ve had a wide ranging episode, the supply chain buzz here today. Gloria Marr, thanks for being with us. Uh, hey, uh, she says another great discussion. Too bad I have to catch a meeting. Have a good day everybody.

Greg White (52:49):

Don’t be late and thanks Laura Mar. That’s

Scott Luton (52:51):

Right. Life at work continues. You know, Greg and Dino, uh, I’d love to get first off, uh, Dean, let’s make sure folks, they’re gonna be able to catch you here. We got some upcoming, uh, shows together, some collaborations and whatnot. Let’s make sure folks know how to connect with you. Um, after today’s show, I’m assuming is LinkedIn a great place? Yeah,

Constantine Limberakis (53:08):

LinkedIn is always great. Fantastic way to reach out to me.

Scott Luton (53:12):

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I really appreciate all that you brought here today, Greg. What’s your final before, uh, I wanna call something out from our webinar? Great webinar we had, which is now on demand. So Amanda and Catherine, thanks for all you do. If we can have that embarrassing webinar link at the ready, so we can drop that in the chat in just a minute, I would really appreciate it. Greg, great chat here with Dino here today. What’s one of your favorite things? One of the things that, whether he said it or someone in the cheap seat said it, or maybe something you said you wanna spike the football on it folks got to pay attention to and take from this conversation. Your final

Greg White (53:45):

Thought? Uh, just that you said it, Dino, just that you are here <laugh> to say it. I mean, I, I I think I really like how this kind of rounds us out, right? And by the way, you were doing the research right there on the show, weren’t you? That’s when you were kinda looking that way. You were actually doing a little research. I like that.

Constantine Limberakis (54:03):

I’m all, and I say

Greg White (54:05):

You never stop researching. And I think that aspect of this really, I, I think that will help provide additional insights to, to our audience here. Plus I just love how informed you are. It, it’s really rare to have someone who is so ingrained in the practice who already calls the practitioner’s. Practitioners love that and has the kind of knowledge that you can share. Brilliant takeaways here. So sorry to, you know, like drown you in praise, but I really, I really love the third perspective here and I think it gives us a, an additional dimension. I’d be curious to hear what our viewers think, but yeah, I think there’s a lot going on in the industry. We didn’t talk about a lot of great things here, right. But I think when you talk about these topics like we did today, we try to offer here’s why it is the way it is and here’s what needs to change. So even when we’re talking about something that two or three downers like we had today, we’re always trying to explore how to change this. We’re not just reporting news here, right? Right. This is, this is an opinion and an education show and you’re gonna get opinion. And if you watched this before, you know that and you’re gonna get an education And if you keep watching, you always will.

Scott Luton (55:19):

Yeah. So I wanna wrap on a more uplifting, positive moment from our recent webinar with, uh, vers and Greg, you and I both were on this session. And, uh, Dino, you’re gonna have to check out the On Demand and On Demand is, is readily available. We’ve dropped a link, uh, there in chat. Y’all check it out. But at, at near the end of that conversation, Greg, we had Eric Wilk, who is c e o at Worth Industry for the M R o, safety and Metalwork division. Right? Right. Of course, Paul Noble and Jim Bron, uh, was with us as Wealth Embarrassing, but Eric very eloquently put something out there that I was inspired by. And what he was talking about is, your team is under all this pressure and stress as they’re trying to navigate this environment, just like there’s a ton of pressure and stress on, on leadership, right?

Scott Luton (56:01):

And he challenged leaders to, hey, show and communicate to them what that Pathway to Excellence looks like. Cause with that clarity and knowing that there’s a better day right around the corner, it’s gonna help them get through the tougher hours and the tougher days. And that’s really, I took that as a responsibility that we have to act on, right? So, hey, to Greg’s point to what we’ve been talking about this whole time, Hey, take the information, the expertise, the education presented here, but then you gotta do something with it, right? You gotta do something with it. Deeds not words. Communicate and show your team what that path would excellence looks like. It’ll make their days better. And with all of that said, Greg and Dino, Catherine, and Amanda, and all the folks that were in the chat, hey, thanks for being here. Thanks for all that you do. But Scott Luton challenging you to do good, to give forward and to be the change. And we’ll see you next time, right back here at Supply Chain now. Thanks everybody.

Intro/Outro (56:56):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain Now, community. Check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain now, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain. Now.