This episode features two bright minds tackling a one big question: can fintech more equitably distribute the building blocks of prosperity? If you ask authors Theodora Lau and Bradley Leimer, the answer is yes. In fact, they wrote the book on it, aptly titled “Beyond Good: How Technology Is Leading a Purpose-Driven Business Revolution.” Join host Scott Luton as he engages these two innovative minds in fintech for a wide-ranging conversation that includes reflections on self care, connecting more founders to funders, the role of supply chain in promoting equality, the question of data sovereignty – and some can’t-miss inspirational advice.

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:32):

Hey, good morning, everybody. Scott Luton with you here on supply chain. Now welcome to today’s episode. We’ve got a very special conversation teed up. We’ve got a couple of business leaders, podcasters authors, entrepreneurs, and more with this right here, talking on a variety of topics to include the core topic or really tech for good and beyond. So stay tuned as we dive into a really fun, intriguing and informational conversation. I want to welcome in the stars of our show here today. We have Theodora Lau and Bradley are co-authors of the book. The great read, the best selling top of the charts read beyond. Good. How technology is leading a purpose driven business, Theo Bradley. How are we doing? Very

Theodora Lau (01:18):

Good. Thank you for having

Scott Luton (01:19):

Us. Thanks again. Good to talk with you. You bet. Bradley Theo. We love repeat guests and of course we’re we’re friends, but we’re also social friends. I’ll tell you, I love your Twitter feed in particular, all the great projects and thought leadership you put out there. And, you know, last time you’re with us, we’ve talked a lot about Bradley Lamor and this big project that was in the works. Uh, and of course we had the remark pre-show Theo and Bradley. I’m in love with Bradley’s voice. Uh, I’ve got commercials and moot and movie introductions Bradley. We’re going to sign you up for, I think you’re going to have to be my agent going forward. If you could represent both of us, I think we’d probably be better off. Let’s go. Well, we had, uh, Theo great to see you again and Bradley we’ll we’ll we’ll talk business maybe after today’s show, but let’s start with, you had such a great time. You know, that’s been probably about four months ago. Do you think it’s been about, or, or maybe 40 ventures or projects ago for Theo ton of passion? I’m convinced you’ve got clones with everything you’ve got cooking. Huh?

Theodora Lau (02:24):

I might have little robots running around.

Scott Luton (02:28):

Well, so I thought we’d start today’s episode a little bit different, right? Rather than do a, a rerun of our first conversation with Theo. I wanted to kind of reinvent our conversation a bit. So I’ve got, I’m going to drag out of the closet. Something we call the lightning round around here at the here at supply chain now are y’all gain. Perfect. Okay. All right. We’re going to get to the heavy hitting stuff on the front end here, such as food. So, uh, I’m to start with you Theo, what is your best meal or at least one of the best meals you’ve ever had and why

Theodora Lau (03:00):

Best meal in the restaurant come Ms. Syria discovered at six years ago, when it first opened beautiful tasting restaurants, small joints in the heart of DC. And that’s been our family’s favorite ever since then.

Scott Luton (03:13):

Oh, love it. What’s one dish that, that your family enjoys most there. Ooh,

Theodora Lau (03:18):

I don’t know as a tasting. So they, they do everything all over the place. Um, pasta, their pasta dishes are amazing. Yes,

Scott Luton (03:26):

Man. Just with you saying that, I think I gained seven pounds cause I love pasta. So Bradley, same question for you. What’s one of your favorite all-time meals?

Bradley Leimer (03:36):

No, I’m just going to, I got to go back like almost 30 years because the first time I ever went to a place that was like a Michelin restaurant, I didn’t grow up with a lot of money. My parents didn’t take us out to this kind of place when I was, um, maybe my last year Cal, I went to a place with a girl that I was dating that I thought for sure I was going to end up marrying this girl. But we went down to LA, which is probably why I have a love, hate thing with LA. And we went to this Michelin restaurant and it was like the first time I’d ever seen synchronized like serving and like little tiny lake plates that just had amazing looking food on it. And that started this lifelong sort of level of affair with food and going to fantastic restaurants around the world. So that kicked it off. And uh, you know, the rest is history.

Scott Luton (04:15):

The rest is history. Love it in LA. You’re not talking lower Alabama, right?

Bradley Leimer (04:20):

Nope, Nope, Nope. But you know, lower Alabama hadn’t been there yet.

Scott Luton (04:24):

It is. Hey, some of the best, uh, barbecue, uh, for sure. Okay. From food. I want to talk about resources now, right? We’re all, we all produce a variety of content. Uh, we’re gonna talk more about, uh, this incredible book here momentarily, but let’s talk about other folks, other content, whether it’s news or commentary or analysis, or just for fun. What’s one thing that that’s on your either daily or weekly docket.

Theodora Lau (04:51):

I read papers every day. So I’m probably one of the few people weirdo that, that still read papers. I do while I do my round wall street journal, financial times, New York times and Washington post every single day. Wow.

Scott Luton (05:05):

Cover to cover.

Theodora Lau (05:07):

Well, I mean, here’s the thing, right? I think probably all of us would, our great news is news and news are different than they’re reported differently. Depends on the person who’s writing about it. And so you get different perspectives left, right. Middle and you know, financial times is, is European focused. And so it’s good to have different perspectives.

Scott Luton (05:27):

I can’t agree more wonderful. I’m jealous. I thought I was doing something, reading a couple newspapers a week. I got to step up my game Theo. Same question for you Bradley what’s what’s what’s on your daily or weekly docket.

Bradley Leimer (05:40):

I probably read four or five hours a day at least. And, uh, one of the things that though I read when I read slow, um, beyond like maybe some books, especially fiction books. When I read them slow is Sunday, New York times. Like since I was like in high school, I would read for two or three hours of Sunday, New York times. And uh, you know, I grew up delivering papers and I tell you, uh, I can, I can appreciate a big thick Sunday paper and I’ll devour like a good meal.

Scott Luton (06:06):

I love that. Well, you know, speaking of, of a good newspapers, the New York times and the wall street journal, they’re a, bituaries not to be morbid, but the storytelling and the research that goes into the ones they lead with, you know, weekly or daily or even daily, you can learn a ton. And it’s so much more than some of your, your typical obituary. So I’ve learned a ton just by focusing on that aspect of newspaper, uh, each week on a much lighter note, much, much lighter note, you know, as we were talking pre-show for my family on the outskirts of Atlanta, we like to venture over to Monroe, Georgia and take in that the weekly farmer’s market, especially on Saturday mornings, right? That’s that is religious for us. It’s therapeutic. And it’s a big part of our routine kids. Aren’t crazy about it. Most of the time, even though they get lemonade and treats and stuff, but Hey, it is what it is Theo for you. What’s a habit that’s therapy for you as well, whether it’s daily, weekly, or whatever.

Theodora Lau (07:06):

I do see your, um, I do see a farmer’s markets pictures every weekend. And I got jealous before COVID Hertz. Our weekly weekend routine was brunch. We always go into town for brunch, um, in downtown and, uh, religiously every weekend, at least one, one brunch, if not to the past year and a half, I don’t know. We let the kids, Nick breakfast, that’s been on habits, which is, which is great unto itself because they love to eat out. And now they just love to cook. The challenge is who does the cleaning

Scott Luton (07:45):

I’m with you? That’s like an age old challenge too, right? Yes. My dear wife, Amanda won’t let me cook because of, of that then important little afterthought I used

Theodora Lau (07:55):

Here. You’re not doing it on purpose.

Bradley Leimer (07:58):

Yeah. I don’t, I don’t understand like, you know, men should be doing as many dishes as everybody.

Scott Luton (08:02):

Yes, you’re right. Bradley you’re right. And Amanda, if you hear me, I agree with Bradley wholeheartedly, you know, she’s, she’s so much more of a culinary artist than I am. So Bradley. Same question. So I love how Theo encourages her children to experiment and be creative and, and develop their culinary skills. What about you? What what’s what’s daily or weekly, uh, therapeutic activities in your, in your, uh,

Bradley Leimer (08:25):

Yeah, I will say I actually love to cook and I’ve like, you know, ever since I went to Cal and like learned how to cook different types of meals from around the world, I’ve always loved to cook. So I do like that, but I will say during the pandemic, you know, I have had, even though I’ve had probably seven, eight years now working from home more time to be able to work on myself. And so I probably work out an hour or two a day. And so I’m doing, you know, five to seven to 10 miles of running a day and I have a rower and all this stuff, and that’s my time. And with the kids, you know, they take every other minute of every time. Uh, so between that and the book and work, you know, I tell you, you got to take care of yourself too. You sure.

Theodora Lau (09:05):

I’m trying to add up your hours brought so two hours rolling and running and then four hours reading. Wait, do you sleep?

Bradley Leimer (09:12):

Yeah, no, not, not too much sleep. And like you, I could say that, uh, you know, you have to stretch to get more than those 24 hours a day.

Theodora Lau (09:21):

I am working to get back into running. I don’t know how I used to do half. I can’t do it anymore.

Scott Luton (09:27):

Oh, there’s not enough hours in the day. There really is. Nope. But somehow we find a way and, and Bradley, I agree. I think it’s important. And Theo, I want to say you and I have touched on this in your first episode with us, you’re taking care of yourself. It’s tough to help others if we don’t take of our, you know, if, if we don’t take care of ourselves first in some way, shape or form. Okay. So I appreciate both of y’all’s, uh, indulging me with the, with the not so lightening round. I wanna, I want to move to your professional journeys, you know, Theo, we had a lot of fun talking about your background and your professional journey. The last time for some of our listeners that maybe hadn’t caught that, that episode recently, let’s start with you, give us a refresher, give us a couple of, um, uh, you know, previous roles that really helped shape your worldview.

Theodora Lau (10:13):

Yes, I’ll make it brief. So I was an accidental engineer, did it at a spate work. Great, wonderful. Proved it moved on. I spent most of my life actually in telecom and various aspects of telecom, including with a couple of clients in Georgia, where you are Scott and a land started with landline. I don’t know who still uses landline, but we had those and then see lack and wireless. And high-speed all of that. And then kits happened. So took a turn and, um, moved on and did a couple of startups after that went on to nonprofits. And then the rest was history. That was where I met Bradley. When I was working in nonprofit, looking at, uh, financial innovation for older adults.

Scott Luton (11:00):

I love that. And we, and we, we did talk about that last time and, you know, one interesting thing, you know, this is obviously supply chain now, and we, most of our episodes are really centered on supply chain, but I’ve always found it to be in the whole FinTech space and how it’s overlapping more and more with global supply chain. I find that fascinating. So I think this be a really neat if not creative episode here at spotlight now Bradley, same question for you. Give us, you know, so you’re new to our listeners. Yeah. Let’s walk through your professional journey a little bit. Same way.

Bradley Leimer (11:29):

Yeah. Well, I’ve been in financial services almost my entire career. You know, I started out seven, eight years doing the data side, working with banks and sort of leveraging their data to do marketing efforts around insurance and other products. And, you know, I feel bad about that early part of my career. Cause I probably killed about a billion trees with the direct mail that we did. So, uh, outside of that, I, that I dove into working in financial institutions themselves first in a credit union and ran marketing and technology for them for many, many years. And then the community bank, which was a hundred year old bank here in the bay area. And, um, learned an awful lot between those two institutions about what it means to serve and what it means to be part of that community. Then I, you know, started getting into working with startups across that time and into FinTech before it was FinTech and, uh, ended up leading innovation at Banco Santander, which is this monstrous global entity in 20 different regions with 160 million customers. And wow, there’s a lot to play with and a lot of fun. And then, you know, through that process, um, met Theo and the rest is history in terms of, you know, the book and what we do and all the work and all the good we’re trying to do in the ecosystem. So that’s me in a nutshell. Okay.

Theodora Lau (12:37):

Thank get to the dark side. Don’t call him a banker Scott.

Bradley Leimer (12:41):

Yeah. I don’t think anybody, anybody wants to be called a bank.

Scott Luton (12:46):

Well, so it’s, it’s, it’s uh, this will be interesting. So Theo you’re in DC, right? Bradley you’re in San Francisco and I’m in Atlanta and you know, as both, y’all probably know a lot better than I do the Atlanta area. I think its nickname is FinTech. Allie, if I’ve got that right, because of all the trends

Bradley Leimer (13:06):

And then visa just announced that they’re coming down with a lot more people and you know, it’s always been a FinTech hub for FIS if I serve in so many others.

Scott Luton (13:13):

Hmm. Very interesting. Okay. So I want to better understand and I bet our listeners will find this interesting. I mean, you know, so you all collaborate on more than just the book and again, the book we’re referencing today, we’re gonna talk more about here momentarily is beyond, beyond good. How technology is leading a purpose-driven business revolution. How did y’all meet?

Theodora Lau (13:35):

We let me go back in history. So there’s this, we need a whiteboard. So there’s this little Theo and this giant monstrous nonprofit trying to figure out, okay, what, what is this FinTech thing, first of all, what is FinTech? And how can we use it for older people? There’s so much buzz. And so what did I do? I went and Google FinTech. And then I went on to social media and search, well FinTech and there came something called FinTech mafia that remember that. And so a couple of names popped up one that the first one was Brentley Lymer okay. Don’t know who he is, sent him a LinkedIn email. He actually responded. That was quite interesting. Make a long story. Short, met a bunch of people in my first Finovate, which Brett would call the FinTech of Disneyland and FinTech. Right. See, that’s what I love him anyway.

Theodora Lau (14:40):

So I was there like, you know, this, this little person who does not know anyone and everyone seemed to know everyone and this person just dashed across in front of me, he was walking, it was in a hurry. He’s always in a hurry, going somewhere. And I’m like, oh, Hey Brett. And he stopped and looked at me. He’s like, who are you held up, man? Then you’re like, oh, you know, I’m Theo. We traded some correspondence. And his first thing he asked me, Brett, I don’t know if you still remember, are you drinking from the fire hose or something?

Bradley Leimer (15:14):

Well, and if you were at Finovate or anything else like that, or, you know, at those early days, that’s what it was. It was like drinking the fire hose of information. And uh, just to see, you know, dozens and dozens of startups in those earlier days and what has become a bit, it’s now like the hottest part of venture capital globally is.

Theodora Lau (15:35):

Yeah, it is amazing. Now, Brad, I don’t know if I should tell Scott about like what happened off the woods though? Remember the coffee meeting?

Bradley Leimer (15:43):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could go ahead and tell that story. Whether they’re listening to

Theodora Lau (15:48):

Scotland to fate would have turned out completely different. So they’re in, you know, we met for coffee afterwards and um, at that time it was because I was looking for banks to partner, whereas us on a hackathon or just even looking, Hey, you know, anyone, you know what want to be part of this now, Mr. Lymer is used to talking to people who asked him for money because you know, banks, people go to him for money. And so I met him and before he even opened my mouth and start talking about what, why I wanted to do a hackathon for FinTech solutions for older adults, his first reaction was I can’t sponsor you. That was your second strike my friend, because I wasn’t looking for money. We had funding, we were perfectly fine. We were like a billion dollar non-profit did not need the funding. I just needed someone to work with me. But yes, that was Mr. Lima in a nutshell, but that’s how we got,

Bradley Leimer (16:52):

But let’s, you know, let’s, let’s take it from there. Um, you know, in terms of working together and in terms of, you know, helping you with hackathons and everything else I wasn’t there. So I just stopped. I actually personally will always do more than what the brand, um, you know, associated with at any given time

Theodora Lau (17:10):

On the first hackathon you was on the second one, I,

Bradley Leimer (17:12):

I came and I helped as much as I could. And I would say, but your

Theodora Lau (17:17):

First one,

Bradley Leimer (17:19):

Maybe not the first one, because of course I couldn’t sponsor. Um, but in terms of, in terms of the influence from that first meeting and what she took from, um, her experience at ARP and what that has changed in my mindset about that demographic and how we serve people that influence has continued for years. And so, you know, regardless of how that started, I think the impact will continue for a long, long time. Yeah. That

Scott Luton (17:49):

Excellent point. I got, I got to one follow-up question and one follow-up comment love for y’all to speak to before we start talking about Eureka moments, first off, you mentioned a hackathon and there may be a portion of our listening audience that are new to that. Uh, what that is. Can you briefly describe it?

Theodora Lau (18:05):

Yeah, so we did two, actually. It was loads of fun. The first one we did at, in New York and the whole idea is we wanted to get people to start thinking about why it is important to innovate for older adults, right? Because all of us in, you know, who involved in one shape or form with innovation, you have your typical bias of people who would be doing it and people you will be doing it for, right. And people don’t normally think about, you know, people that are older than 50, that need a digital solution for anything. And so that was the first, um, idea of, we wanted to get people to start thinking about it and change their mindset. And then the second one is, you know, it’s the best way to get new ideas is to reach into the community, right? Reach into people that are grandchildren, people that are adult children, you know, working with their parents and whatnot, or people that are going through the journey itself.

Theodora Lau (19:01):

So the best, uh, that was, that was, um, our idea was to partner with as many communities as possible to see what challenges they’re facing, right. And how they think would be the best way to solve it. And we did it in a way that we wanted to bring in banks because at the end of the day, guess what, as much as FinTech solutions, as many FinTech solutions out there, a lot of us still bank with the main street bank. Right. And we also wanted to change the mindset of people that are working in traditional financial services to understand that there is a market to be hut, to innovate for older adults. Cause it’s, um, it’s a market opportunity of trillions of dollars. We’re all living longer and we still need services. Right.

Scott Luton (19:44):

Right. I think based on some of what you shared there, I think there’s some great takeaways for our supply chain, our global supply chain practitioners, listening, going outside of your typical regular channels for ideas and,

Bradley Leimer (19:57):

And just adding in there, you know, the idea of a supply chain related hackathon. When you think about in some of the companies we invested in at, at some time there, you know, we spent a lot of time on working through digitizing letters of credit and just different ways that the supply chain could be more optimized. And in working with our small businesses and our large providers, you know, the Cargills of the world, big providers in the supply chain, we learned that in doing something like a hackathon, there are going to be smaller startups working on pieces that could improve the entire system of the way that people get paid. Things get shipped, you know, how things like blockchain technology and other things can prove authenticity across the supply chain, et cetera, et cetera. And so you never know, you know, in working with smaller companies, what’s going to be sort of come out of that. And I think between the two of us working within the brands that we’ve associated with, and also, you know, working with clients along the side, there’s always something that can be discerned.

Scott Luton (21:01):

Okay. Well, we’ll put in a S on a related note, uh, you mentioned earlier Bradley, uh, how fintechs one of the hottest spaces when it comes to, uh, venture capital and, um, entrepreneurs, uh entrepreneurial-ism and whatnot. It also happens to coincide at a time when, when their procurement profession has got a seat at the table, perhaps unlike ever before. It’s really fascinating time. And I think where those things kind of overlap and are woven in with each other, I think that’s where there’s a ton of lessons to be learned and takeaways that are relevant in global business, just as much as relevant in global supply chain. Okay. So, uh, we’re we were about to, uh, uh, FinTech geek or supply chain geek out there. And I’m gonna pull us back from the edge for a second. Cause I want to, um, in one of my favorite things from Theo’s last appearance with us, we talked pre-show about, it was her one of her Eureka moments she shared.

Scott Luton (21:55):

And I can, I can’t remember where the line is from a song, uh, the line that the kids are. Okay. That was one of the main things she shared, you know, during this pandemic, as we were fear, as we all are fearful about how it impacts our kids. Right. And continue to be know, at least for us at anxious about that, you know, that was one of the, your lessons learned, the kids are okay and they’re navigating well. And they’re there in some cases they’re thriving, despite all the challenges. And that’s the beautiful thing, but starting with you Theo, I can’t wait to hear your latest Eureka moment that you’ve had, uh, so share what, what else has hit you like a ton of bricks here lately?

Theodora Lau (22:34):

I need sleep.

Theodora Lau (22:39):

But, but, and, and, and, and honestly, I think the last time when, when we both chat, that was when the kits was still at home virtual virtual classes. And, um, as of a few weeks ago, they finally are back in school and it’s, it’s, it’s bittersweet moment because a, they finally get to meet their friends face-to-face, which I think they really need. Right. Because humans are social animals and we need each other. And even though, you know, the three of us are talking and connecting through the screens, it’s not the same. Um, so, so, so there’s that, but I think finally, it’s, it’s to the point where I would like to say, we’re slowly adjusting to how life is, or likely will be for a while. And, um, so now I realized I need to take care of myself, so I need to sleep, sorry, it’s not like this does like earth shattering moment or smart thoughts that I could share, but it’s literally what I feel right down as I can finally breathe.

Scott Luton (23:42):

I think it’s really important. I think, I think, and kind of expanding a bit, you know, mental health, the need to invest in ourselves and the need to be physically and, uh, strong and mentally strong. And, and so that we can, you know, parents so we can lead businesses and startups and, and all these great initiatives during these, uh, these crazy times. So I appreciate you sharing that, uh, Theo and Bradley I’ll come to you next. What’s been, uh, Eureka.

Bradley Leimer (24:08):

No, I think, you know, the last 18, 19 months have proven out that people are pretty resilient. Uh, we’ve been through, you know, globally an awful lot, uh, with this pandemic. And I think it’s, it’s proven to people that people can be very productive at home. Those that are fortunate to be able to be working from home. And I, I hope that there’s a little bit more empathy that people have for those that aren’t able to work from home. It’s a privilege to be able to work, you know, from the comfort of your home when so many people can’t, and, you know, there’s so much economic divide that we confront every single day within this industry. And if we aren’t building solutions to help people be more resilient financially, then what are we doing? You know, why do we have a financial services industry, unless we’re serving the communities, every person within the community that we have an opportunity to serve. So there’s an awful lot, I think of learnings, but, uh, we’re an awful, awful resilient species of human humanity here. So lots, lots that we can improve upon, but, um, you know, w we’ll we’ll be, we’ll be okay.

Scott Luton (25:11):

Well, well said, and, and it is interesting how the definition and the prevailing definition of luxury has continued to change because you’re right working from home and B being able to still make a similar living, you know, without any of those, trade-offs, it certainly is a luxury. So will said there Bradley. Okay. So Theo and Bradley, now that we’ve kind of set the table, you know, we’ve talked about some of the characters we have here. We’ve talked about some of the professional journeys and the context there. Uh, and then of course, we’ve kind of brought it current with, uh, some, some recent lessons learned. I want to dive in to this book, this book that is, I think it’s number two in my queue of what I’m reading next. And I want to start with how it originated and they all start with you. How did it originate and, and proverbially, what is, what was your, why you and Bradley’s wife are doing?

Theodora Lau (26:05):

I tell people that we like to torture ourselves, but, um, it was a serendipity moment. I’d say the publisher reached out from the UK. And, um, this was 2019 pre pandemic. We all that in London in December. And we decided on the framework of the book, because we’ve been both of us, as Bradley had told you appreciate, we’ve been writing quite a bit for, for the last few years and, you know, and I’m a very, very regular basis. And so the thought was, well, how about we continue that on that, you know, have it in the shape of, of a book and talk about some of ideas extended through stories around the world. One of the things that resonated with both of us a lot when we talked about privilege earlier, is it’s a privilege to have a voice. It is a privilege to have a platform to be able to do what we do, and to have the opportunity to talk to so many people around the world and listen to this stories is a privilege onto itself, which is not something that everyone huts.

Theodora Lau (27:07):

And so we wanted to use the platform that we have be it a written medium, or be podcast, and what have you to bring those stories out so we can all learn from each other. So that was one of the foundational basis of why we wanted to write the book. And, um, so made a long story short. We started writing end of 2018, early 20, 20 before the pandemic hit. And at that time I worries was how would we be able to reach out to everyone we wanted to include in the book to have all the voices included in the book, and yet be able to keep up with all of our travel demands and speaking engagements and all of that? Well, I guess we all knew what happened after,

Scott Luton (27:53):

Well, so really quick, the a, because some of what you shared there also, we talked about in your first appearance and clearly your line with Bradley, where you won’t, especially those voices that aren’t regularly heard, you want to spotlight that and spotlight their POV or their point of view and their expertise. And what they’re thinking at that, that I loved that about y’all’s approach to your theater.

Theodora Lau (28:16):

So that was actually how we found it. The company rate it’s that there’s talent everywhere throughout both of our corporate lives. We keep running into amazing people. I kept running into amazing founders and they just could not get access to the network. They could not get access to the banks. They could not get access the capital because of where they are because of who they are because of where they went to school or not went to school. And that’s not right. Right. You know, to be able to meet how a world will be in the future, especially given all of the challenges that we have, we need all the ideas that we can get from different corners of the world, because there’s nothing better than Lyft experiences, right. People that are from demographics that we want to create solution for is not our job to be prescriptive of what they need, but it is our job to listen to them and then help them and get those ideas on the table

Scott Luton (29:15):

Beautifully said, and folks, uh, from my fellow supply chain related founders and entrepreneurs, best guy, but hopefully it’s singing in your ears because there’s opportunity for all, thanks to leaders like these two here. Um, and we’ve got more work to do for sure, as I’m sure they can attest to, but, um, I love that this, this dynamic that’s growing in entrepreneurial circles across the globe right now, Bradley, what else would you add? It comes to, um, you know, the book’s origin and your wife are doing it and whatnot.

Bradley Leimer (29:47):

Yeah. I mean, you know, what are the connections that, that, um, had for me was with the mid-year, um, and flourish ventures is what they’re called now. And we did a report that came out, um, probably six to eight months before we started writing the book that really highlighted good business models within FinTech and financial services globally. And these were companies that, uh, immediate network and flourish, uh, had invested in a mid-year, uh, person who founded eBay. And so, you know, they, they are really looking at how you could improve financial inclusion and in meeting some of the companies that they highlighted and sitting on stage at places like Monday 2020 to highlight their stories really had an impact in the way that I think we both felt about, you know, who a founder should be and why we need more representation, you know, than just your typical white male young founder, that looks like Zuckerberg.

Bradley Leimer (30:42):

Uh, because the average entrepreneur in FinTech is 42 years old, has worked in financial services and actually sees where the holes are. And there’s a lot of holes inside banking that banks still miss to this day. And so to me, you know, the, the book and what we worked on within, it was to point out a lot of those sort of missing opportunities, not just with who we serve, but just the way we serve people and, and the end result. Uh, and so our feedback thus far has been really, really positive about people kind of rethinking the way that they think about this business.

Scott Luton (31:19):

I love that. So you’re both kind of speaking to some degree of, of some degree of my next question, that that is wash it. Folks, sit down and read it. And now I’m partial already. Cause Thea told me to I’m kidding, but I really, you know, when you follow folks on social media and see thought leadership, you see what they point out and you get a sense of who they are and what they’re passionate about. It was an easy decision for me, right. To add it to my collection and my reading rotation, but Theo beyond what you’ve already shared, why should, why should folks pick up the book and give it a read

Theodora Lau (31:52):

Are all part of the world today and our kits and the next generations are going to be a part of the world in the future. So, you know, given what we have collectively learned in the last year and a half, if that did not prompt us to look for ways to change, what would

Scott Luton (32:13):

Well said, uh, Bradley, how would you, what would be your,

Bradley Leimer (32:17):

Yeah. Yeah. So for, for your listeners, um, there’s actually a section on, on supply chain and, and there’s, there’s seriously like a lot of examples about good supply chains and how companies can actually be part of beyond. Good. And so we, we talk about it in the context of system leadership and how, you know, leaders at the largest to the smallest corporations have choices, they have choices and who they use as suppliers. They have choices in the way that their supply chain has an impact, you know, from, uh, an ESG sort of standpoint, in terms of looking at the environmental and social impact of what they do and who they work with. And if more people at the heads of corporations, regardless of size, think about their supply chain, even if they don’t think about it in terms of a manufacturer supply chain, they think about goods and services from the employees to their partners, to their customers a little bit differently. And we think about how that all works together and the bigger, broader picture. I think that is a lesson that carries across not just supply chain networks, but across every single business model that exists

Scott Luton (33:26):

I’m with you. And I love that. So folks, there’s lots of supply chain in this book, get, you got to check it out. And again, going back to our earlier elements, um, supply chain, financial executives are the folks that have a lot of juice, a lot of power, and there’s also lots of opportunity there. So, uh, whether your global supply chain or global business, you all check it out. And I love the, um, I love the title alone because good isn’t enough. And these days, right. It makes me think, uh, when I saw, first of all the tile, it made me think of one of my first favorite business books, which is a good to great right. Uh, Jim Collins, uh, which I love kind of how, how he, uh, and maybe he’s got some callers. I don’t know how they, how they approached that as business cases and examples and stories.

Scott Luton (34:08):

So I’m looking forward to giving this a read as well. So again, beyond good how technology is leading a purpose driven business revolution. And I would just add supply chain and global supply chain leadership and know-how, and action is what’s going to help address some of the leading challenges and issues of our time. And that, that that’s really cool. We talked about procurement having a seat at the table for perhaps the most ever in your supply chain. Also, there’s a reason why we’re seeing chief supply chain officers crop up left, and right. And as Greg white always says, and I’ve got to get y’all connected to Greg. We’d have a really fun conversation. Uh, now that we’ve got a seat at the table, that’s good news, but the bad news is we’ve got to act like it. We’ve got to take action. Right. Um, okay. So plenty, no shortage of ammunition in terms of how to pick up the book. Let’s Theo, let’s talk about your favorite part of the book. Cool.

Theodora Lau (35:04):

Too many. I think the one favorite thing I like the most about the book is we were able to squeeze in a lot of quotes from a lot of founders and entrepreneurs around the world. That that was, was really important to us. So important that we actually cut off 10,000 words and Brett is still crying. Um, but we were told we had too many words and too many pages. And so we decided to cut up our words so that we could keep others words in there, because that is one important bits of, of why we wanted to do it. Right. Like I said, in the first place, we want to include voices of others in what we do. And so if you go through the book, you’ll see lots of quotes from, you know, founders of various ages, from different demographics, from various parts of the world, doing different things, and we want to get them in there. So that’s my favorite part.

Scott Luton (36:03):

I love that. And that resonates with me as, as being, you know, I’m talking all the time too much, right. And one of my favorite parts about what we do is, is still a page out of your book. You give the mic, you give the spotlight, you give your own podium to others and, and gosh, to cut 10,000 of your own words to protect those voices across the globe. I love that the, with sharing that with my family this weekend. All right. So Bradley asked me a tough to top, but what’s your, one of your favorite parts of the book? I don’t

Bradley Leimer (36:34):

Know. I was still crying about the words that are missing.

Scott Luton (36:39):

Hey, you got a headstart on, on part two though.

Bradley Leimer (36:41):

All right, there you go. We’re going to start with those words. I would say the first thing that I wrote as part of this book was a story around Lego and the history of how Lego started and the tragedy of factory fires and talk about supply chain disruptions. I mean, when your entire factory burns down to the ground three different times, and yet you still now have the single largest, most profitable toy company in the world. And you think about, you know, how LIGO started. So that’s how the book starts. And that, that was the first set of words that I started out with. And I think the key to all this is that we end with that as well, the story of Lego and what they’re doing now and how they’re changing their supply chain and how they’re changing the way that they look at manufacturing. And it’s about hope in the end. And so it starts with hope and it ends with hope. And that’s the message that we want to get across to everybody is that changes in the mix changes happening now. And everybody can be part of,

Scott Luton (37:38):

I love that, uh, Theo, I want to, maybe as you and I talking about this last time, cause hope came up. I believe it could have been someone else. But on that note, you know, I grew up in South Carolina or our state motto is doom, Spiro, Spiro, and I’m probably getting a Latin wrong there, but it’s, while I breathe, I hope. And it has been imprinted in my brain since being a kid because without hope, gosh, especially during the most challenging days, what do you got? You know, um, so I love that Bradley, um, you know, this has gotta be, and, and I have, I can’t say I’ve rubbed elbows with a ton of authors, but gosh, a sense of purpose that I’m picking up between both of y’all of writing this book is really heavy. I mean, it really is. Uh, and I mean, heavy meaning, um, full, I guess, you know, it wasn’t, let’s start with business and, and what folks should know it’s like you had both of y’all are really sharing a very deliberate purpose for really beyond the information you share, how you, how you write the book and how you’re put really pulling people together.

Scott Luton (38:43):

Does that Theo, is that right?

Theodora Lau (38:46):

Yeah, that was a chapter. Um, in the very beginning that we pulled out to Brad, remember that our personal stories that we wanted to share a background about us that lead us to the journey where we are, that part we had to take out, unfortunately. Um, but it was, it was, it was very personal. So you, if you thought, you know, what you read in the book now is personal debt. That is like, it ha adds a ton to it. Um, I talked about my mother, um, where she grew up when, um, I was born and raised in Hong Kong, but my parents, they both, um, they were born during war times, right? Post-war and my, my mother’s family, especially they, they were refugees and they escaped and they settled in Hong Kong, but they lost everything. And so it was a lot about my mother growing up and giving up a lot of things.

Theodora Lau (39:42):

Um, just so that, you know, the rest of her younger siblings could have the lives that the family wanted them to have. But in the course of that, it also changed how my mother’s career trajectory or she, she ended up doing something else that she didn’t want to, at the same time in parallel, my dad was in a similar story and the two of them ended up meeting, but how their life experiences impacted, how I think about people who don’t have enough, how our attitude, um, towards others that are in less fortunate situation than how each and every single one of us have the responsibility to help lift each other up. I think, I think that part of it and, and my mother especially impacted the work that I’ve been doing and, and, and even now, right on what, what we’re doing and why we want to do it. So that was the pot that cut out. That was really personal. And Brett, you had a similar story on Nebraska too. Okay.

Bradley Leimer (40:46):

Th th the regeneration or the ability to sort of change your trajectory is what I think I had written about. And, you know, in my family, um, my dad moved from Nebraska to California when he was 17 or 18, um, and changed the life that he led and changed the life of what my mother, um, led. And my father-in-law moved from Mexico, uh, and came to work in California and changed the trajectory of his family going forward. And if we could personally change by decisions that we make, then corporations and businesses of all sizes can change when people make decisions that are better for themselves, but they changed the lives of other people. And so I think what we ended up writing about was about that ability for people to improve the lots of others and how small things at the time add up to be very, very big things, much like, you know, this Lego piece where a little brick can be turned into almost anything.

Bradley Leimer (41:53):

And just really quick, the reason why we called the book beyond good was actually something that you had alluded to with Jim Collins’ book. Good, great. We thought that, you know, even though it was almost 30 years ago that this book came out even more now, I think 40, maybe almost we talked about the book and what it meant, because a lot of what he defined as great was around profitability and was around productivity and was around efficiency. And we actually think that businesses should be gauged and judged in a different way. And, and that’s why we said, it’s not good to great. Let’s, let’s start with good and purpose and go beyond that. And so this is a revolution that hasn’t started with us and it won’t end with us, but it’s happening

Scott Luton (42:44):

Pros with a purpose comes to mind. And I also love how it doesn’t start with y’all and doesn’t end with y’all. But both of you via this book and other things you’re doing are adding fuel to the fire and bringing more momentum to this movement and a revolution you’re talking about. So folks y’all got me ready to run through the wall back behind me. This is really good stuff. Let’s make sure. And also we’ll be tuning. We’ll be ready for part two, because it seems like what y’all left out could, would be a wonderful core or beginning to, uh, uh, the, the follow-up piece. Let’s make sure folks know how to get it. So I went to, um, I like to diversify where I get my e-commerce so that it’s not all going to one place. And I went to, uh, a different bookseller. Got it. And still got it in in the time I needed it right. Less than a week. It’s fine. It’s like getting a pair of socks. I only need a pair of socks. Same day. I can wait. I can wait a few days, but Theo, where would you suggest folks go get the book?

Theodora Lau (43:44):

So we actually have a site for@beyondgoodbook.com and it has links to if you’re overseas, a mortar stones, or if you’re domestic oversee can go to the big retailer, but we also love it. When folks go visit the local bookstores, independent bookstores, that’s always our favorite. So bookshop.org, um, and anywhere books have sold

Scott Luton (44:05):

Love it. And in the last time, and just getting this scheduled, which was a couple months in the making, it seems like the book has really resonated with a bunch of folks, interviews and webinars and keynotes and all kinds of stuff. Is that right? Bradley.

Bradley Leimer (44:19):

We are here to have this message get to as many people as we can. And I think, again, this is not just our message. This is the message of the hundred plus companies and the dozens and desert, the people that we share within this book. And we’re privileged enough to talk about. So it’s a collective message.

Scott Luton (44:37):

I love that. And it takes a village for sure. All right. So now on my favorite questions, I’m going to ask you all today is there’s so many aspiring, really let’s say let’s call it content publishers. Some are looking to publish that first book. And it’s like the moving target others are maybe thinking about, you know, they just can’t, uh, they want to be a podcast or, and they can’t just can’t get started, or they want to be a keynote speaker and they can’t get started, but maybe with a focus on book writing or really whatever, y’all prefer, what’s some advice and Theo we’ll start with you. What’s some advice you’d offer those aspiring thought leaders.

Theodora Lau (45:14):

I think the first thing I say is, listen, listen to what others are saying, listen to what’s going on around you observe. Um, and if you have some ideas, just write it down. Doesn’t matter if it’s like 20 words. So a 50 what’s a hundred words and start building it up. Right.

Scott Luton (45:30):

Bye Lego brick. I love that Theo. Alright, Bradley, what would your advice be?

Bradley Leimer (45:36):

Um, you know, I do love that and to listen to others, I think consume as much information as you can and develop your own voice. I think, I don’t know how many people, you know, in the last 10 or 20 years I’ve sent two, but just start, start to write, start to speak, start to have a voice, start to realize that regardless of where you think you are in an organization, there’s always a need to hear you and to hear what your message is. Um, no one should be silent.

Scott Luton (46:05):

Gosh, I love that. Y’all are quiet. The 1, 2, 1, 2 punch. Um, I would just add to that, even if you can’t wrap your head all the way around it, that confidence journey, we all have different, different paths there, but no, if you’re listening to this know that you have a voice and it’s important and folks want to hear from you. So even if you just begin to embrace that as fine, but just know that and act on it. Okay. So I want to broaden out. So, so really appreciate you all sharing a lot about the book and a lot about the, the movement behind the book and a lot about your approach. There, let’s broaden things out. So Theo, when you, when you, uh, pulse the global business environment right now, no shortage of topics coverlet related, non-covered related. What’s one, whether it’s a news development or an innovation or a leadership example, whatever it is, what’s one thing that’s got your attention more than others right now.

Theodora Lau (47:01):

I think data sovereignty is one thing that that’s been on and is growing. And it’s actually worrying in a bit, if you start thinking about how a lot of the technology, regardless of industry you in the, the underlying technology infrastructure was created and has been created to facilitate information, transfer, data transfer, or emerging technology using AI, and what have you, you need a massive amount of data and a lot of collaboration across borders, right? That is needed to make it thrive and to make a better. And unfortunately, I think when I worry and what I see is that we’re going to opposite direction where, you know, countries start setting up walls and say, well, you know, my data stays here. It doesn’t go out. Or, you know, one country not play nicely with the other country and thereby, you know, eroding the trust that humans need for businesses to survive. I think that is the one trend I’ve been observing, um, that I hope it will go a different way and we need it to right. Um, but yeah, that that’s

Scott Luton (48:12):

Data sovereignty, man. Uh, we’re the set up a whole series dedicated to bag. I learned a lot more about that. Um, a Bradley, what about you? What’s one thing that you’re tracking more than others right now.

Bradley Leimer (48:22):

Yeah. I mean, we, we talk in the book a lot about data and, um, you know, how companies are using it and the rights and wrongs of personalization and everything else. And so there’s just so much in there, but I will say that one of the things that, that I think we’ll probably be writing a lot more about in the coming year or two is both embedded business models and the power of platforms. And just, you know, to say that that your business model is something that could be easily switched over and taken over by someone else. And we think about the power of, you know, Amazon and large platforms and changing the way that things are procured and changing the way that supply chains are changed, uh, over the last couple of years, think about, you know, drop shipments and think about how many small businesses have changed, because now almost anybody could start a business that starts to ship a lot of stuff around the world. And man, don’t, don’t ever say that your business can never be disrupted because there’s nothing right now that ain’t been disrupted.

Scott Luton (49:17):

You’re absolutely right. Every, I can’t think of one sector that doesn’t have new ideas or new challengers or innovations that are, uh, changing. How, how things have always been done or how they have, have been being done now, or even that short-term arising, uh, is, is, is evolving fast and furiously. Right. Um, it’s tough to keep, uh, it’s tough to keep tabs on law. Maybe I need to read seven newspapers a week like Theo and, and we’ll make some progress there. Okay. So we’re coming to an end here and I really appreciate y’all’s. Time is busy. You are appreciate, um, uh, what you’ve shared here today. Folks make sure you check out beyond good book.com, get your order, uh, get your copy of the book. And then some let’s make sure folks know how to connect with both of y’all. So, um, whether it’s unconventional ventures, the podcasts, other projects, y’all got cooking Theo, let’s start with you. How can folks connect with you?

Theodora Lau (50:14):

I am on social. So Amman on Twitter, uh, PSB underscore D C or in LinkedIn, um, theater allowed to visit our costs. One vision. We are going to be celebrating hundred and 50 episodes soon and super proud to say that half of our guests so far are women, um, and, uh, friends from LGBTQ, LGBTQ community, as well as people from communities of color. So that is the one thing that is super important to us as we invite guests to come on our show to talk about different experiences. So do check us out and we very much appreciate, you know, your support.

Scott Luton (50:53):

Oh, you bet. I love it. I love that deliberate aspect of, uh, of what you do and giving the microphone to folks that oftentimes don’t have it and amplifying that voice. And, you know, I also enjoy your, as I mentioned, you’re a Twitter feed, especially every once in a while you throw a new Lego, um, project on there, Theo, and that’s really cool. So keep that coming. All right. So Bradley, same question. How can folks connect with you? Yeah.

Bradley Leimer (51:17):

So emailBradley@unconventionalventures.com of course, our corporate website on conventional ventures.com and Twitter. Probably the best place it’s at Lymer L E I M E R.

Scott Luton (51:29):

It’s just that easy. It is just that easy. Well, this has been a really fun conversation. I’ve got my 18 pages of notes. I’ve got my homework assignment. I think Theo said is going to be a quiz. So I will welcome that hopefully multiple choice. And if I’m confused, I always go with see that’s. That was a rule of thumb in college, at least for me really appreciate. But the y’all’s Tom, on a more serious note, gosh, it feels like you’re just scratching the surface with the first book, especially with what you want to do, what you want to share and who you want to uplift and the topics you want to cover. So we’re fully expecting a, a mini series. I’m trying to think of the last elementary or the last series of books. I’m thinking Laura Ingalls Wilder had a series of books. I think, uh, uh, not Willy Wonka. There was Beverly Cleary had a series of books, right? So many stories to share. Well, Theo and Bradley. I think y’all both have a full series on, uh, up your sleeve. So, uh, just be B be con consider it as I deliver my book report on the first one. Okay. Is that, is that a deal? Is that a deal?

Theodora Lau (52:34):

That’s a

Scott Luton (52:35):

Deal. Thank you. Thanks so much.

Bradley Leimer (52:38):

Always answer C always answer.

Scott Luton (52:41):

Oh, what a fun conversation. The adore Lau and Bradley Lamur co-authors of the book again. Good. Check it out beyond. Good. How technology is leading a purpose driven business and there is dump trucks of purpose right here between these two truckloads full. And again, you can check out the book@beyondgoodbook.com. Folks. Hopefully you enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. Yes, it was not a core supply chain episode, but Hey, we got to broaden things out. Where are we going to get more? Uh well-rounded as supply chain professionals and practitioners, and this episode, I think serves in that purpose. Hey, check us out. Supply chain.com. Check us out wherever you get your podcasts. But most importantly, Hey, be like Theo and Bradley. Do good gift for be the change that’s needed. And when that note was, see right back here, next time on supply chain. Now, thanks for buddy.

Intro/Outro (53:34):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.