Large conferences may feel like a thing of the past, but some of the most popular events are actually starting to make a comeback. And while the attendance numbers aren’t at the same level as they were before the pandemic, so many new innovations have been put into use over the last 2 years that there is more to absorb than ever.

Tony Sciarrotta has been the Executive Director of the Reverse Logistics Association since 2016. He has 35+ years’ experience in the consumer products industry, including 15 years of managing returns at Phillips. He has become an evangelist for improving the customer experience as a means of reducing returns, becoming an outspoken voice for the reverse logistics industry in the process.

In this interview, which is part of the Reverse Logistics Series, Tony joins co-hosts Scott Luton to share his observations and take-aways from the recent 2022 National Retail Federation ‘Big Show’ in New York:

• How secondary marketplaces for used goods are gaining traction as new items and products continue to be in short supply
• The new collaborations between retailers, technology providers, and logistics partners that will change how business is done
• The role that AI is playing in sorting returns more efficiently so that the best use for each product is found

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now.

Scott Luton (00:31):

Hey, good morning, everybody. Scott Luton here with you on supply chain. Now, welcome back to today’s show folks. We have an excellent conversation teed up here today, talking with one of our favorite friends of the show as we continue our reverse logistics leadership here. Now, with that said, uh, I want to introduce our featured guests. It’s been a little while since we really dove into our guest background. So I gotta refresh your memory. Maybe, uh, our guest brings, you know, we typically don’t go over two decades worth experience, but I wanna give our guests here is full due. It brings 35 plus years of experience in the consumer products industry to the table, including 15 years of managing returns at Phillips. Now in 2016, Tony assumed the leadership mantle at the reverse logistics association, which has been serving the global industry since oh two. Our featured guest has truly become an evangelist for improving customer experience so that we can reduce returns. And he is also become the voice for the returns and reverse logistics industry along the way, join, being welcoming Tony Sciarrotta executive director with the reverse logistics association, Tony, how you doing?

Tony Sciarrotta (01:39):

Hello, Scott? I am humbled by that introduction. They, you so much, it, uh, makes me feel old and makes me feel young at the same time, you know? Cause, uh, if you can, if you can keep the passion going in life, it keeps you going. It doesn’t matter what the years are.

Scott Luton (01:54):

That is right, man. I already dropping the knowledge on us here at supply chain now, Tony. Um, all right, so let’s continue that. Let’s have a little more fun before we get into the heavy lifting. Uh, appreciate all that you do and Hey, it’s good to feel. Uh, uh, I kind of share that it’s good to feel old and young at the same time. It’s better than feeling old, only old, right? That’s right where I sit that’s right. And my kids remind me of just how old <laugh> I am every week. Um, so let’s talk music. That’s one of the things that you absolutely love. You’re a big music fan. Some folks may not know that about Tony Sheroda. So, uh, what is your, what are you really excited about the return

Tony Sciarrotta (02:31):

Of, well, the return of live music is phenomenal. Um, and here in Georgia, in spite of the lax rules about whether to wear mask, whether to be vaccinated in spite of that, we’ve had some incredible going on at our tabernacle, the variety Playhouse, and, and I’m very proud of the fact that they do all require vaccinations and they do require masks. Now not everyone’s perfect about keeping the mask on when you’re in a music auditorium and you’re drinking, it’s a little tricky, <laugh> a little more fun, but at least they check the vaccination carts at the door at the variety. And so I’m, I’m, it’s a, it’s a double edge, of course, I’m, I’m happy for that. And so yes, live music is back Scott and, uh, maybe even outdoors this year.

Scott Luton (03:18):

That’s right. Oh, that’s right man. And music. Uh, we all need to take time to laugh during these challenging times, but also to listen to good music and great lives music, one, one of the best things. Um, now let’s dive a little deeper in Tony. She road’s love for, for the world of music. If you had to think of some groups that you, that you have grown just to love over the course of your journey or equally as important, some big events or music fests, what would those be?

Tony Sciarrotta (03:47):

Well, Scott, I, um, so first, uh, I’ve been lucky enough to, I, I go way back. I, I was there in Detroit when, uh, pink Floyd, blewed the stage. Wow. Uh, by accident. And, um, for probably took out part of my hearing back then. <laugh> um, so, you know, it’s been a long, long time of, of great, but I have to say my consistent passion for the last 22 years, 23 years now has been to be able to go to new Orleans for the jazz and heritage music festival, which is the best in the world bar. None, you got up to 10 days of live music on stages, 10 stages in this, uh, racetrack, uh, fairgrounds, uh, 10 stages. So everything from Bruce Springsteen and, uh, and, and, and other great Eric Clapton, I mean, just all the greats down to the, uh, blues 10th, the jazz tent, the gospel tent, um, the Cajun stage and, uh, you know, even Snoop dog and ludicrous show up there, love it.

Tony Sciarrotta (04:48):

So it’s the most amazing music festival on the planet. And, um, I’ve been introduced to groups there. Uh, it, it’s great to love music. It’s also great to feel energized by the music and, and cert the Mavericks who are just here, Scott, last November at the variety Playhouse, the Mavericks make you wanna get up and dance <laugh> they just do, you know, they’re just that much fun and any kind of a group that’s like that is, is amazing. And, uh, Scott, you know, we have this other little venue called eddies attic, right? Just here, Metro Atlanta right here in Metro Atlanta. Correct. Uh, Eddie’s attic is fabulous. Went there last week and saw Chuck prophet. Who’s an amazing storyteller and songwriter. So it’s even more fun when you have these, uh, performers who love to give stories. They may have been in a big band, but they choose that small venue so they can connect with the audience and tell stories. And I, I, I can relate, relate to that so much. You just, you wanna feel a connection with your audience? Um, how did one guy put it? He said, uh, it’s great to be in a dark venue and hear 300 anonymous people clapping for you and things like that. You know, it’s just like, I can understand that energy a lot. Scott. I really do.

Scott Luton (06:00):

So I’m with you, you paint, you paint a, a wonderful, warm picture. Um, we should also, I’d love to dive deeper into your pink Floyd in Detroit experiences. I bet you’ve got some great stories. I won’t put you on the spot. Uh, I should add to, you know, uh, for of the show here, we’ll hear away in the sun dogs, which they were playing down at the 30 a, uh, I think that’s what they call it. The 30 a singer and songwriter, um, which is also a yearly music Fest down there. And one of the beaches in Florida and they just released a new album, uh, embroidered rose, I think it’s the name of it. So listeners checked it out will, Haraway’s a great friend of the show. The sundogs played great music. Um, one other thing you mentioned, uh, Bruce Springsteen, is it gonna be Bruce or is he gonna be with the E street band? Any idea there, Tony?

Tony Sciarrotta (06:45):

Um, Bruce, I don’t know if he’s gonna be there this year, but, uh, they did announce the who, okay. He’s gonna be there and the F fighters and some amazing big groups, but Bruce Springsteen, you have to be proud of someone who’s as passionate as he is about everything in the world. And he showed up at jazz Fest the year after Katrina. Wow. Put on an amazing show, which is available on line somewhere, lots of places. Um, but you know, he, and, uh, Paul Simon, and so many others went there to help rebuild new Orleans and they’ve done a pretty good job of

Scott Luton (07:20):

It. That is awesome. Okay. Uh, we could talk for hours to think about music. We’ll have to stop it there cause I wanna get into, uh, some of your recent travels and of course, all things returns and reverse logistics. You just got back. You’ve been on the world with the conference coming up, which we’ll touch on here towards the end today’s conversation. You’ve been on a whirlwind of, uh, travel and work and conversations and interviews. You just got back. Tony, I believe from the big show up in New York city, right? Put on our friends, uh, put on by our friends over at the not, uh, national retail Federation. Right. So you’ve got maybe a few key, take a ways from all your conversations. And I think you were part of the programming this year. So what I was, what sticks between your ears, when you think about things, messages, topics that, that, uh, you picked up or spoke about at, at the big

Tony Sciarrotta (08:10):

Show? Well, you know, the challenge is, uh, we’re on a rollercoaster in, in this country with the COVID because not enough of us are vaccinated and wearing masks to make everyone else get safer and, and feel safer. But New York of course leads, um, in terms of trying to be strong about what they do. So the national retail Federation with this outburst, the last variant we had was really questionable what would happen. And, and honestly, um, the show was, oh, was downturned a lot, um, probably, uh, uh, less than 10,000 people for a 40,000 typical event. And that happened with CES a couple weeks ago as well, but still some 10,000 people showed up many exhibitors. It was a little different, uh, experience because you walked on the aisles and, uh, you could get a cappuccino immediately at any booth because really there weren’t long lines, no waiting.

Tony Sciarrotta (09:04):

So no waiting, um, got my cappuccino fixes on Sunday morning. And, um, and there were some missing major players of course, and things like that. But, uh, you know, we hope to all get back to those good adventures. And it’s, it’s more of a challenge of course, for a major event where, where 5,000 thousand people used to show up to downsize, right? That’s a challenge. How do you feel the hall? How do you, you know, make it valuable for the people who were there? And, um, and so I walked around the show, but let’s talk about that part of the program that they invited us to do, uh, uh, Scott Case there he’s the vice president of sustainability. Oh,

Scott Luton (09:44):

Scott Case Scott Case. Okay. Gotcha.

Tony Sciarrotta (09:47):

Scott Scott Case, um, vice president sustainability was doing part of the program, John gold, who’s vice president of their so supply chain side that you must, of course know. Well, he is a

Scott Luton (09:59):

Good, I tell you, he, um, if you ever want to talk, have a conversation with someone who’s got their finger on the pulse right. Of, of retail supply chain and kind of retail industry, John gold, as you got. And Tony, as you may know, he’s one of the world’s biggest Miami dolphins fans, if I’m not mistaken. So anyway, Tony, please, you’re talking about the big show, sorry.

Tony Sciarrotta (10:19):

Well, that’s, that’s okay. We need to, you know, include all these important tidbits of, uh, the people that we know. And, um, and so, uh, you know, and here’s an example where my panel, which was supposed to be discussing reverse logistics end to end solutions started out with, uh, three panelists. We lost two, um, but more important. We had Becca mines, vice president of end to end reverse logistics at best buy. You could not ask for a better industry thought leader than Becca who, by the way, stepped into this role just a couple years ago, right. When the pandemic was starting. Um, and right when she was about to have a baby <laugh> wow. And, and has emerged as such an important thinker and, and illustrating how, how strong best buy is in this space and how they accidentally became stronger in this space. Right.

Tony Sciarrotta (11:18):

So we’ll talk about that for a moment, if we could Scott, because I am so proud of them, not just as a member of the RLA, that’s nice, but what they do, what they’ve done is they’re led by Corey Berry. Uh, and she leads the organization. She’s one of those people that came from the, from the ranks on up. Okay. <affirmative> and has committed best buy to be a major force in a circular economy, major force, and a major force in returns reduction. You know, Scott, we talk a lot about revers logistics and people forget we’re we’re talking about more than just moving boxes, right. We’re talking about what can you do to reduce returns? Not many people talk about that. And then, and honestly, we don’t get to talk about as much cuz we focus on the logistics part,

Scott Luton (12:06):

But that the, the logistics part is such a massive feat to get that right. There’s yeah. To your point, there’s a whole different and even bigger maybe perhaps conversation when you get to root calls, you move upstream. Yes. So that we can, we can bring, we can lessen that big, massive movement challenge.

Tony Sciarrotta (12:24):

Right? Absolutely. And what Becca talked about and what she recognizes is presentation to the customer is first and foremost critical. You wanna make sure they know what they’re getting, they’re getting what they want and what they need. And if it doesn’t do exactly what they thought it would do, there’s the geek squad desk. Right? Right. So when you go back and you, you, you know, you’re having problems because honestly, Scott, the whole world needs to remember people don’t jet generally go to buy something online or in a store just to take it back. Right. <laugh> that’s not, what’s in the minds of most people. They want something they think they need and they buy it and they want it to work. And um, that holy grail, Scott we’ve talked about in the past where at Phillips and Sony and these other companies, they say this stuff that’s coming back is not defective. It’s not technically defective. So that’s like the holy grail, right. The holy grail is stopping returns is how do you get people to stop bringing things back that there’s nothing wrong with it, right?

Scott Luton (13:27):

Yeah. To use a quick analogy, if I can, to, to, uh, someone that maybe hasn’t heard some, some you speak earlier or be, uh, or, or any of our conversations here, it’s like, uh, you’re, you’re trying to fix a, a, a, a massive plumbing leak, right? Yeah, of course. You’ve got to kind of get the water out. That’s, that’s the, um, that’s part of the problem. But if you stay right there, you have an endless problem that you’ll never solve. What you’re talking about is getting to who, finding that leak, root and addressing it there, which will bring down all the other work we’ve gotta do. So I, I love, I love your focus on that root calls. Let’s get, let’s take care of the customer. Let’s better educate ’em, let’s give them the right options, um, you know, and really embrace circularity. And how can we, it sounds like in my, what I’m hearing you say best buy is committed to becoming a much better, um, disciple or advocate for all things circularity. Is that, is that

Tony Sciarrotta (14:27):

Accurate? Tony? I’d say it. I, yes, you can absolutely say it that way. Scott, they are committed and, and many of their people are very passionate about this. Uh, and Becca is one of them, uh, you know, the stories she told about the things that they do, simple example, Scott, they will help you recycle your old appliances and electronics really, right. That’s huge. Even if you didn’t buy it from them, they will help you get rid of that stuff. And, um, and that, that’s a pretty big step for a retailer. Cause when we talk about the cost of reversal logistics and how enormous they are, most of those costs are passed back to the manufacturer. Mm. You made the stuff, we got it back as defective. You need to take care of it. Right. But in, in, so in a retail space for the retailer to assume some of the responsibility, um, that’s commitment, that’s commitment. But again, the focus and that conversation was about the fact that they’ve expanded their reach. Uh, about two years ago in the pandemic began, they already, the geek squad was keeping stuff, repairing it and offering it for resale as a value, right.

Scott Luton (15:39):

And inside the, uh, inside the store is that best buy right? For

Tony Sciarrotta (15:42):

The best part inside the stores. And now they had included some stores, a small area where those, uh, pre loved as we call them, gently products have been put back into the opportunity for someone to buy and, uh, they even offer ’em online. And so what happened as you, as we all know, in the last two years is inventory started to run short on new goods. So they had this entire market of products returned goods that they had refurbished themselves to make available for sale. So when computers and printers were in very short supply, they had an extra supply in this secondary product, uh, refurbished product that they were offering warranty on. So they were able to not only, um, stay solid, but to grow their business because people were looking for values. And now, instead of looking at on Craigslist or eBay and, and places like that, for those questionable return goods, refurbished goods, uh, here is best buy selling these products with their full strength of their geek squad and their company behind it. So they, they blossomed, uh, as an expanded retailer and that’s all part of being right. Scott, take the old stuff back and, and have life after death. Right.

Scott Luton (16:58):

<laugh> now you, you know, we’re both laughing as you said that, but there’s, there’s so much truth there. Um, as, as I think when you and a friend we interviewed, uh, Howard Rosenberg, right? Yes. Peace stock, not too long ago. And I think I already had purchased that old Nintendo we that, or that pre loved as you put it Nintendo. We we’ve gotten already in, in the handful of weeks, we’ve had it, we’ve gotten hours and hours of enjoyment and they stopped making that, I think in oh eight. And that’s just a small example of the wealth of the, uh, what they call the, uh, the, the reuse reuse market is

Tony Sciarrotta (17:34):

Secondary marketplace,

Scott Luton (17:35):

Secondary marketplace. Thank you, Tony. Yep. Um, so let’s speak more. So, um, I’m so glad, you know, a lot of panels when they lose a couple of panelists at last minute, they might, would cancel a chat. I love that you and Becca shared all of what y’all know, and, and this new, this not newfound, but maybe new, new package, newly structured, uh, uh, corporate priority to, uh, embrace circularly more at best buy that’s one, that’s a wonderful story.

Tony Sciarrotta (18:03):

I, I was, uh, very impressed by what they do and, and what more so than, and the, of course I did walk around the show and we can touch base on that too. But, um, the, the audience 150 people or more, uh, got that insight of, of what they’ve done and how they’ve done it. And so, uh, have to be really proud of that. I have to say, Scott, I’m looking forward to us being in Vegas with you on stage. That’s right. Uh, I gotta find some of those super bright lights and, and just blind you on stage, because it’s really a challenge with those bright lights aimed in your eyes to talk to the audience, you know, it’s, uh, right. It’s, it’s quite a challenge, but

Scott Luton (18:42):

Well, he ones up to the challenge though. Tony certainly is. And Becca, uh, be mines is her last name, right? Yes. Uh, which we enjoyed y’all’s chat here. Um, so one more question before any other big takeaways, what was your favorite, you know, cause I imagine at some point of that discussion that you took a question or a comment from the audience there, anything come to mind, any of your favorite exchanges come to mind?

Tony Sciarrotta (19:10):

Um, we actually, uh, in, in deference to these major corporations who have to be careful about what it’s said in public, uh, Beck and I had taken questions and worked through them earlier, cleared them with legal PR and, and I, and I understand that. And I believe in protecting my, my members, my, my, my retailers, my manufacturers, we don’t wanna surprise from the audience a loaded question, but, but the exchange that, um, Beck and I had, uh, was about what, what are the challenges for this year? What do you see coming down the road that will help? And, um, and, and they’re so committed to this idea, uh, when you take something in for service, and let’s say it’s a laptop computer that you can’t figure out. So you’re gonna have an option. Now you’ll be talking to service and they’re gonna say, okay, we can fix this for you, but it’s X dollars, right? Versus over here, we have some refurbished ones you can get for Y dollars, right. And that opportunity allows that customer a choice. It’s like, you know what, that, thing’s only a year old. I want it upgraded. I want it back. Or it’s 10 years old. Let me switch it for this one here. Thank you very much for that. I, I think that’s an amazing path to go down for business opportunities and for taking care of the customer, which is ultimately what it’s about. Right.

Scott Luton (20:33):

I love it. Choices are good. Choices are still good. Right. So what else I wanna move into next, um, in, in a minute here, you know, kind of a top three list of things that you really need to be on your radar when it comes to the reverse logistics and returns and management space, anything else stick out from NF that you wanna share

Tony Sciarrotta (20:50):

With us? Well, as I walked around the floor, and as I mentioned about loading up on cappuccinos, you know, yeah. Little baby cups, so that’s right. Takes a few extras to get in, to get it going. Um, you know, it’s, it’s interesting that they have a section for a new technology. So you walk, you gotta walk around that and see what, what do people have for trends coming in the future? Um, they had a supply chain area, uh, couple of other areas. And, and I feel like not all companies are sure where they need to be at that show. But if you walk around enough, you start to see things like, uh, the drive for the, the, the software, uh, to, to manage everything. It’s just unbelievable amounts of software out there, uh, different opportunities, uh, SAP combining with Matic and with DHL. And, you know, there’s a lot of interesting combinations now, but the takeaways that I, I, I will point to, uh, one is, uh, digital signage, smaller digital signage that can be put on shelves and, and change messages.

Tony Sciarrotta (21:57):

Hmm. Change pricing, change the, uh, the messaging in the sense of, um, buy this now, because it’s a deal or, or buy this because it will help make your life easier because of this. So, so digital signage is appearing from several companies, um, analytics, Scott, that genie has been outta the bottle a long time. Hasn’t it? You know, people worry about privacy. Don’t understand that every time you buy something or return something, they are tracking you to death and, and deciding your customer profile. And so there’s that kind of analytics, uh, very popular Scott, you know, I call it smoke and mirrors. <laugh> right. It’s, it’s like, okay, but at the end of the day, how do we touch stuff and make stuff happen? That, to me, it’s all about being practitioners and just talking about the smoke and mirror numbers, but here’s the it’s gotta lead to action. It’s gotta lead to action. So the, the other one though, that was interesting is there’s now these software companies providing analytics connected to cameras in the store, watching people. So they are watching you, they build a profile of you. They see what stations do you stop at? What do you pick up and touch? Uh, what do you put back? What do you put in a cart? I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re tracking us. Wow. Scott

Scott Luton (23:22):

<laugh> are we gonna have to sign off on releases? When we make a quick run to the grocery

Tony Sciarrotta (23:25):

Store next year, maybe they’re watching us, they’re watching us Scott out. I’m I’m not gonna suggest that they are personally invading our own private space. Right. But they’re watching the reactions of maybe hundreds of people going past this display. Is it working? Is it catching their attention? Um, now on the positive side, I would like to think that the more that they can promote products effectively, the less returns are gonna happen. Right. So I’m, I’m gonna be positive about this scary prospect that the cameras are watching us. Okay. Right. Uh, I’m gonna hope that it turns into, as you said, actions, to make the product better, easier to use, uh, provide people with something that they, that they can, that they need. Right. Right. So, um, so those were a couple of the trends, so that digital signage, the analytics with the cameras, uh, the smoke and mirror softwares that are all over place. Um, just unbelievable. And, and of course the national retailer Federation is appealing to the retailers, right. To do this stuff in their stores so they can sell more stuff. There’s a part of me that has a little bit of a reaction to that. Yeah. Selling more stuff is good. It’s all about capitalism. But at the end of the day, it also needs to be about selling the right stuff that people need.

Scott Luton (24:49):

Excellent point excellent point. Cause that stuff’s gotta be, uh, it it’s gotta go somewhere. Uh, it comes back. It comes back, which we’re headed to next. Yeah. Uh, one, one quick comment that digital signage is such a, a fascinating, uh, thought, uh, and visual, you know, it wasn’t too long ago. Uh, in fact, I worked in, in WND Dixie grocery stores. That was my first ever job. We’ve talked about this. And at the time we were still, I still remember folks in the, um, uh, like the medical aisle and like, uh, there was a name for that kind of stuff. Anyway, pharmaceuticals, something like that, you know, where you, you get, um, deodorant and band days and that kind of stuff. Anyway, they still had the old sticker sticker tape done. Oh my God. Remember those things. Yes, <laugh> right. And now look how far we’ve come to now.

Scott Luton (25:41):

Uh, maybe even without any human interaction based on data analytics and the Mar market and this, that, and the other, the prices that just update themselves. It is it’s remarkable times we live in. Um, all right. So Tony, let’s shift gears. We’re gonna talk about two big things before we wrap up with you here today. Um, we’re gonna talk about kinda what’s your top three list when it, when it comes to the reverse and you’ve already shared a lot, but beyond that, what are three things? Navy folks should keep their finger on the pulse of when it comes to returns management and reverse logistics and the big show or, or the RLA version of the big show, right? The 18th annual RLA conference, NPO coming up here just around the corner in February. But before we get there, your top three list, what are three things folks need to have on the radar when it comes to returns management and or logistics?

Tony Sciarrotta (26:29):

So definitely we are seeing the trend towards out, let’s call it sizing software in general. Uh, we have, uh, some members now in the LA they’ll be with us in Las Vegas. So I’ll give a plug to my size ID and a couple of other companies that are all about you enter your own measurements into your own personal database vault with them. And when you order clothing from different companies, it tells you this size will work from this company, or because you’ve bought other things from other company that’s this size you’re gonna need this size from this company. Wow. Right. So, you know, an example would be, uh, sketcher shoes versus Johnston and Murphy shoes, right? So a size 10 sketcher might need to be a size 10 and a half or 11 Johnston and Murphy. Right. Cause unfortunately, Scott, we know the world of bracketing is exists because there are no standard sizes. Like there should

Scott Luton (27:28):

Be, well, just so, really quick for the three or four folks that may not be familiar with bracketing Tony, that’s where a customer may order in this case, a size nine and a half shoe, a 10 and a 10 and a half, and then keep the one they like and they send the other two back, right?

Tony Sciarrotta (27:44):

Yes. Okay. Yes. Bracketing is the nightmare for e-commerce in any category where size matters. <laugh> I think I stole that line. I think I’ve seen that on a few billboards, right. Um, where size matters. People are very, very cautious about it unless they bought something from that company before. So sizing software is important. It’s important enough that Walmart made the purchase of a very large sizing software company themselves because they recognize number one. Um, it adds value to the customer experience. Okay. And, and Walmart and target any retailer’s goal is to make the customer experience better. So I’m super in favor of that idea. But number two, the side benefit is if you get the customer to buy the right size, the right fit, they’re less likely to return it, right? So it’s a win win. As far as I’m concerned, sizing software it’s come a long way from when they ask you to take a picture of yourself in front of a green screen naked <laugh> there, there was software out there, Scott, that kind of went in that direction. And I thought they were kidding. I, I don’t think they’re around anymore, but yes. Imagine that one. So, so software sizing is, is kind of a, a, a big deal and we’re glad to see it have happen. Uh, cause

Scott Luton (29:06):

That, that goes after again, that goes beyond just the reverse of just excited. It goes to Lessing those returns, right? Lessing, the probability that folks can buy the wrong size or color based on differences from, from manufacturing manufacturer. Love that my size.com you said, is that the,

Tony Sciarrotta (29:23):

My size ID?

Scott Luton (29:24):

Okay. My size I okay. Yep.

Tony Sciarrotta (29:27):

And actually it’s an Israeli company, Scott. It’s not even an American company, so it’s, this is a global issue. And it tell that tells you that, um, you know, Israel is even working on this kind of stuff too. Right.

Scott Luton (29:38):

So yeah, lots, lots of innovation, uh, coming outta middle east Israel and, uh, Dubai and, um, uh, Saudi, you name it, uh, UAE. What, um, so that was the first one. What else, if you, if you to round out your top three list items two and three,

Tony Sciarrotta (29:53):

What would those be? I think, um, we have to recognize the recycling and the importance of recycling, uh, from a sustainable, um, circular approach. Uh, we, we talk about life after death and, and that’s where it really plays. Um, I was very lucky to tour some facilities in Nashville, Tennessee recently run by, uh, one of our board companies Sims one of the big ones and they had three facilities up there that actually, you know, one facility shreds the heck out of all kinds of stuff and isolates raw materials out of it, you know, giant magnets that take out all of the metals. Uh, the rest of it goes in a different direction. I mean, it was really cool to see, I forgot the name of the machine, big birther, something like that, just a humongous we had to put on the head for own so we could listen, we could talk or hear each other.

Tony Sciarrotta (30:44):

It’s just like unbelievable sound of, of things being crushed down to raw materials. And that’s exciting. And then, um, you know, the, the, uh, uh, ink jet plant where they try to recover all of those cartridges that we all send back with inking ’em and they try to turn it it into something else is also very cool. Um, cool and slightly creepy, but we were warned as we were turning the corner, we were said, don’t be shocked. This isn’t what you think it is. And it was a Gaylord full of plastic molded teeth that, you know, it could have felt like the Holocaust museum. That is it for a moment, but it was clearly reprocessed plastic. That’s being used to help people dentists do teeth molds, uh, for those of us who, you know, at some point lose their teeth. So wow. Very creative stuff.

Tony Sciarrotta (31:36):

Um, so that’s, that’s another version of recycling. And then the other version of, of, of silly there is take back massive servers. Uh, this is something that companies like Cisco and these other ones that they wipe ’em clean, they upgrade them and they make ’em available to companies that aren’t Facebook <laugh> or, or Google. Right? So those of us who are smaller planetary, uh, entities, we could use one or two servers and we don’t wanna spend a hundred thousand dollars on ’em now Cisco and these other companies make redeployment it’s called redeployment. So that that’s very cool in that whole recycle space. The creativity that’s there, Scott is, is amazing. And it’s really an impact to supply chain because you don’t have to always look for new stuff you can use what’s been used and use it again. So I think we’re gonna see a lot of activity in the recycle space, uh, related to returns. And, uh, there’s been some, but to your point, Scott companies are out there recognizing, well, we’re gonna say we’re sustainable. We’re gonna say we got ESG focused on this and cetera, et cetera. We better, you know, walk the walk as well as talk the talk. And they’re starting to, to do that. So proud to see the companies in reverse logistics for on that

Scott Luton (33:00):

Outstanding. Um,

Tony Sciarrotta (33:02):

So that’s number two. Yep. I guess number three.

Scott Luton (33:05):

I, I, and, and, and lemme, let me couch this for you because sure. It, it’s tough to pick three and say, okay, these are the top three, there’s so much going on. And so to be fair, I was asking Tony for three of the top things calls as, as the voice here, he, I bet you’ve got a thousand different things on any day of the week going through your head and, and there’s, cause there’s so much going on in the return, in, in, in supply chain in general, but also in the returns and reverse space. So three of the top. So what’s that number three.

Tony Sciarrotta (33:34):

I think we, if we went back to some of the broadcasts we’ve done together in the reversal logistics space, we probably hear the term that I used. There’s no one silver bullet, right. To put in your gun. Okay. There’s the WOL of returns and you need more than one silver bullet <laugh>. So, so, um, so let’s talk about another silver bullet, which is AI, um, you know, on stage at the end of Beck. And I, we were talking about the nightmare of opening up a returns trailer, seeing 26 pallets of stuff. I had a little visual aid for that one on the screen, 26 pallets of stuff, all onesies, right? And, and you’re counting on these warehouse workers to pull this stuff out of the truck, open up a pallet, which is usually shrink, wrap and touch each and every single product and figure out what do we do with this <laugh> right. That’s, that’s the nightmare. What do we do with it? Um, it’s impossible to do a great section on every single piece, just impossible. This is where forward and reverse, just go in completely opposite directions, those onesies, I mean, you could unload a trailer, 26 pallets, couple thousand units of products, and you wouldn’t have two of the same product and people don’t understand it. The, the complexity in, in that, right. It’s just massive complexity. So,

Scott Luton (35:05):

Well really quick if I came really quick. Cause the first thing that comes to my mind is when you’ve got all these different products, all these onesies you’re talking about. Yeah. Um, you know, one facility is not gonna know how to perhaps disposition a million different things. Right. So what immediately comes in my mind is as you, they begin to unwrap and process it, that may require more movement to get into the hands of the experts that know how to get it back on the shelves or right. Or more sustainably dispositioned. It can, if you’re not careful, that’s why we gotta have, we gotta have the rope pros doing this. It can create, um, uh, what’s the way there, there’s a term rework basically re remove re re movement. We’ll call it. Um, it’s the gift that unfortunately keeps on giving Tony to some degree, right?

Tony Sciarrotta (35:54):

Yes. Yes, it does. So, um, <affirmative> so to your point, Scott, do you have experts on the frontline touching every piece? Again, it could be a thousand items. It might be one air fryer, one game, boy machine, and a dozen, uh, you know, liquid soap, dispensers, things like that. So you, you don’t want your talent at the frontline necessarily, but here’s the secret with AI. You can have your AI set up to make a disposition decision on every UPC and that’s it. That’s where it has to happen. The decision making. Now you have to count on people coding this the right way. They have to understand. Yeah, liquid soap may go to landfill or to one liquidation, but the game boy, the robot or vacuum, uh, the air fryer will go a different way. So it’s really about AI helping make decisions of what is the best use of this product.

Tony Sciarrotta (36:53):

And by using AI, you can improve your recovery. <affirmative> because the decision making isn’t in that person, who’s touching it. The decision making is in the system that says, well, this air fryer sells for $200 new. Um, we’ve got as a return, we gotta put a little money into it to package it, but the value comes out. Yeah. Let’s put this in the right pile to be returned to second to market, to resell. So it’s really about AI software. And again, we’ve got some members in the LA who are great at this. They’ve got that software. This is where I don’t mind smoking mirrors. I, I don’t think of it as smoke mirrors. It’s a decision tree that is not one person. And if you’ve got 50 people on the line and they all look at the same 50 items, you’re gonna get half, throw it away and half put it into stock. Right. It’s just right. That’s, that’s what it’s gotta be about. Cuz returns are so complex,

Scott Luton (37:50):

Right? It’s practical, artificial intelligence. It’s practical. There’s a lot of AI out there and, and not to paint with a broad brush, but there’s a reason why, you know, there’s a lot of AI memes out there because it’s being applied far and wide. You know, if AI falls in the, in what’s that old joke, if AI falls or, or codes in the woods, does anyone ever hear it fall or code? I don’t know. There’s a dad there anyway. Um, I love it. And, and I also like the potential of this, of real powerful. And again, practical, actual artificial intelligence is still a, a Greg is a Greg white is AI, uh, different acronym of how that can, it can also what I’m hearing you say. It can also, um, limit wasted miles and wasted movement. And if you look at the however many waste we’re counting these days, um, you know, 11, 12 depends on who you talk to. That’s one of the, the biggest, you know, we hear the phrase empty miles a lot when, when trucks are moving pallet, you know, with empty, pallets, empty, uh, boxes, you name it, uh, if we can limit wasted and an accurate miles. Yes. Uh, that helps too. All right. Helps

Tony Sciarrotta (38:57):

All of us. Right.

Scott Luton (38:58):

So the three things, again, if we had at the top, uh, one was right sizing, right? Yes. The second, uh, the third was like real powerful AI. What was that second one again, Tony, the,

Tony Sciarrotta (39:10):

The three, uh, channels of recycling that we talked about, the, um, uh, uh, shredding and, and creating raw materials. Yes. The remanufacturing it into something else. And then the, um, the redeployment, um, that’s right. So recycling is now and, and some people think of recycling as a bad term. It’s like, it implies that this is junk. Um, but we wanna get people to understand cycling in the supply chain is all about returning it back to some form of use. Right. Um, and, and, and get creative. It doesn’t all just have to be raw materials. It can be other types of, uh, reuse as well. In fact, I heard the compliment at the ribbon cutting of this one facility. Uh, the comment was made, uh, the, that this, this company, our board member says the highest form of recycling is reuse. Mm. So that that’s important to keep in mind. It’s not just to make raw materials, it’s to make something that can be reused. So that’s really cool about recycling.

Scott Luton (40:12):

I love it. I love it. So long, long li <laugh> long of the Nintendo we family boons. That’s what we’re doing around here. That’s

Tony Sciarrotta (40:21):

Right.

Scott Luton (40:22):

That’s right. That’s good. So let’s talk about the 18th annual quite a track record here. Annual reverse logistics association conference. Next spoke, coming up at the Mirage in Las Vegas, February 6th through the ninth. Um, so, uh, we were there together, uh, a couple years ago, I think 29, 20, 20, 20 20. Was it okay? Yes. They had a wonderful time. Uh, first class programming content networking. We saw you were kind enough to include us on, um, what’s the Beatles, the famous Beatles show

Tony Sciarrotta (40:56):

CTU sole the Beatles love show.

Scott Luton (40:58):

Oh, it is so cool. It’s so cool. I had a great time look forward to being back. We’ll be, um, recording interviews and, and some live stuff. They are from the, what, what we call the heart of the returns and reverse logistics universe, uh, every year right there in Vegas. What are you looking more, uh, amongst your long list of things you look forward to? What are some of the things you’re looking forward to at the next conference expo? Well,

Tony Sciarrotta (41:24):

Again, it’s probably a long list, but the top of the list would be the opportunity to sit with my board again. Uh, they’re on our website, rla.org. The 12 board members are 12 global companies, 12 passionate, committed people from retailing, manufacturing, and providers. So a chance to talk to them about, Hey, where are we going next kind of a thing, right? Yep. We, um, the other is I get to stand in front of the audience, um, Scott and announced that we will have broken 200 paid company members for the first time ever in 20 years. Uh, we’ve got another 3000 companies in the, in the system, but 200 paying members is phenomenal. Um, we expanded the hall and Scott, you remember it was kind of a crowded at place last two years ago, we had you at the back of one. Well, now we’ve expanded it.

Tony Sciarrotta (42:18):

We’ve doubled the size and not doubled the boost so that people will have safe distancing possible. Um, but I’m really proud, Scott, and I hope you get to hear, I hope you get to escape your tiny little 10 by 20 so space, uh, occasionally to catch, um, uh, our keynotes, um, Steve Koenig, uh, vice president of research for the consumer technology association, better known as the people who do CES. He always comes on stage and, and, and Steve and I have been friends for a long time. And Steve gives you the perspective of not only this is the new, new, cool stuff coming out, but he tells people in the audience, you know, this is something new and cool, but you might see a lot of these coming back. <laugh> Steve always adds just a little bit of, uh, of reviewing the products, um, when he is reviewing the new ones.

Tony Sciarrotta (43:09):

And I, and I appreciate that so much. Um, so we have two great keynotes. Uh, we have several panels, uh, of presentation. We have a full haul, um, and, uh, I I’d say it. It is about, you already said it, Scott. My, my focus is this is a member association. This is not a paid political announcement stage. Okay. I don’t like advertising from the stage. I have it. And I’ve only had to yell at two people over my five, six years and say, don’t come back and ever do that again, but it’s really it. It’s important to talk about the industry. What are the best practices? What are the industry thought leaders saying we can do, we should do to reduce returns, to improve what we do with returns. That’s what people are there to learn about. And, um, and then we did cut back on the session.

Tony Sciarrotta (44:01):

So there’s more networking time. So the people who show up, especially the new ones will get a chance to, uh, interact and connect with, with the leading retailers and manufacturers. And, um, I’m, I’m really happy. We cut back on some of that. We made more time available. Uh, we have a couple of receptions. We want everyone to feel comfortable. We’ve taken some extra steps on the safety protocols, Scott. Yep. Um, we’ll be checking to make sure everyone’s either vaccinated or negative tests. Lots of sanitizers around the room. We’ve got, uh, a mask mandate still in place, but, um, it’s really about sharing. It’s really about networking. It’s really about, I believe every member of the RLA is a vetted company. They wouldn’t spend the money and to be in an association. And as you know, and I’ve said this several times on my LinkedIn post, um, you know, I, I’m not this isn’t my baby.

Tony Sciarrotta (44:58):

Exactly. I have the honor and privilege of serving as the executive director for the industry. That’s what matters first and foremost. And we have a heavy responsibility. Scott. I am so lucky to have a supply chain now as a voice of the industry as well, because we’re the only voice as an association in the world. And that’s, that’s nice, but it’s also a heavy responsibility and, you know, I take it serious, right? It’s just, we, we need more voices. We, we need to tell the there’s so much more we can do to reduce the waste, the landfills. And there’s so much we can do to make consumers happy, happier with stuff. It really comes down to that. Um, and I can’t beat that drum hard enough. Right, Scott, I’ve done it for now. A lot of years, I can’t stop beating that drum.

Scott Luton (45:50):

Well, uh, we, we got gotta, we gotta keep beating it, uh, while we make progress and, and, you know, we can’t just keep reacting to, uh, the returns game and, and moving the returns and, and, um, the status quo. I love how, you know, when you hear the best practices, oftentimes, uh, some folks may think about kind of what’s been established, right. But what I love, what I, what I’m, uh, hear a lot of times at, um, at the conference and our conversations is these new things that like, kind of like the best buy example, these new things where folks are reinventing, so they can move upstream to your point, to make, to make customers happy. And to also less than the likelihood of returns. So we have less of a huge challenge, uh, to disposition, um, at the end of the day. So Tony keep fighting a good fight. We’re delighted to continue our on a couple years worth of, uh, working and collaborating together and helping as you bang that drum, we want to amplify it, right? Uh, the space needs it, the thought leadership within the space needs it more need to understand. I, I would argue more consumers need to understand of how their actions, their daily actions even impacts the challenge that we have collectively. And that that’s a big part of the battle, right?

Tony Sciarrotta (47:06):

Absolutely. And Scott, I, I, this is that time of the year Scott, where every news station and news journalist suddenly calls us out and they wanna talk about returns, holiday returns. But I do wanna give a plug to Alexi Horowitz from NPR, from planet money. He did a phenomenal in depth story about the treasure hunt approach to what happens with these returns that show up in these bin stores and people go crazy. It’s like feeding frenzy. It’s a great story. Um, it’s on our website. I also wanna give another teaser Scott to our conference. Now this is gonna eliminate a lot of the attendees, but Becca mines will be there. She will be speaking to the women’s luncheon. And unfortunately you gotta be one of that tribe to get into that room. Um, those of us who, uh, would like to can’t, if you’re lucky, you might see her out on the floor and get to say hello. Uh, but to any of the women that are listening to this supply chain now podcast, um, please go up to Becca, tell her how great it job she did. You heard she did a great job at NRF and tell that Scott and Tony talked about her endlessly on the podcast. It’ll it’ll, it’ll get her. <laugh> absolutely.

Scott Luton (48:19):

You know, we look forward to that. I, I look forward to hearing, um, and being a part of everything that’s gonna be taking place at Vegas. Tony, how can folks connect with you and the RLA,

Tony Sciarrotta (48:32):

You know, Scott, the responsibility of being an association for its members means we share everything. And if you go to our website, rla.org, rla.org, you will see a conference page that will tell you all of the speakers, the schedule every day, including we’re doing that, uh, charity golf outing on Sunday evening, Scott, um, I’m gonna go there. I’m not even gonna pretend to play golf, but it’s top golf it’s indoors. So it’s a small intimate 75 people. Uh, Julie Ryan from HP is one of the hosts, Kevin Taylor from FedEx, another one of the hosts, FedEx supply chain. So that’ll be a nice intimate event. We’re asking extra money for charity. For that one. We give it to cell phones for soldiers. I am so proud Scott, two years ago, we did this this year. Our check will be 50% bigger already to them. So I really wanna emphasize that part of the schedule.

Tony Sciarrotta (49:29):

You go down and you’ll see the exhibit and the sponsors, maybe less interested in that, but there, the attendee list is posted. Mm. We actually provide the attendee list. So you can see the, uh, it’s over 400 names already. You’ll see the company and their title. And we’ve got people coming from Europe. Scott, we’ve got people coming from the UK, from Germany, from Israel, very proud that there’s some adventurous world travelers who know this is the only big event out there and they’re coming for it. So, uh, you can see the attendees. And of course the Mirage Scott, you stayed there. You know, it’s a nice venue, very nice venue. That’s right. And unbelievable room rates. They’re starting at like 68 to hours a night in Vegas. Wow. So, um,

Scott Luton (50:15):

Good stuff. Yep. That’s right. Come out. Learn how companies are changing the game. When it comes to returns and reverse logistics come out and connect with of course, Tony and the whole RLA team. First class team, um, a great ecosystem and community of thought leadership y’all have. And Hey, while you’re here, you can get a card game and take in this Beatle show, which is just, if you hadn’t seen it, it is remarkable. So heck of a time rla.org, we’ll make sure the link is in the show notes of the, of this podcast. Tony really appreciate your time here today. Always a pleasure. Uh, I look forward to, uh, a slew of interviews that we’re gonna be conducting there, uh, in Vegas. But as we continue again, this reverse logistics leadership series here at supply chain. Now thanks so much, Tony. And thank you, Scott.

Scott Luton (51:05):

Again. Great to have another four voice of the industry and supply chain. Now you bet you bet the one and only Tony Sheroda executive director with the reverse logistics association folks, uh, Hey, connect with Tony. Be sure to connect with Tony on LinkedIn. We’ll have that link, uh, in the show notes as well. I’ll tell you he can sit down and just ad hoc, tell you what you need to know about what’s going on across you. Reverse logistics world, and one heck of a personality along with it. Great friend of the show. Um, if you like conversations like SP sure to find us@supplychainnow.com, you can find supply chain now, wherever you get your podcast, don’t miss a show. So subscribe. Um, but most importantly folks, Hey, be like Tony sch Sheroda. You gotta do good. Give forward, be the change, right? Change at status quo. And with all that said, we see next time, right back here at supply chain now. Thanks everybody. All right. Thanks Scott.

Intro/Outro (51:56):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now, community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow of us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.