“What makes a business good or bad is not whether or not they have modern day slavery or human trafficking in their supply chain. It’s whether, firstly, they’re prepared to look for it and then, secondly, what they do when they find it.”
– Tim Nelson, CEO of Hope for Justice and Slave-Free Alliance

Human trafficking and slavery are modern business problems in every corner of the world and in every supply chain and industry. Finding and stopping offenders is a gargantuan effort that requires governments, international organizations, enterprise leadership teams, and individual contributors to work together, but addressing it is the biggest challenge of all. Visibility, training, resolve, and action are required in the face of these hideous – and systemic – human-against-human crimes.

In this powerful episode of Supply Chain Now, hosts Scott Luton and Greg White are joined by the co-founder and CEO of Hope for Justice and Slave-Free Alliance, Tim Nelson. Tim describes the impact of human trafficking and slavery on the world today – including the reality that it is happening in some unexpected places very close to home.

During their conversation they discuss:
• The specific materials, locations, and supply chains that continue to leverage slave labor despite the fact that they have been a known problem for years
• Why consumers need to be just as aware of what happens in supply chains as corporations and professionals do
• How Hope for Justice and the Slave-Free Alliance work with their partners to prevent, rescue, restore, and reform labor oversight around the world

Intro/Outro (00:03):

Welcome to supply chain. Now the voice of global supply chain supply chain now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues. The challenges and opportunities stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on supply chain now,

Scott Luton (00:31):

Hey, good morning, everybody. Scott Luton, Greg White with you here on Supply Chain Now welcome to today’s live stream, Greg.

Greg White (00:38):

I’m doing quite well. Scott, really interested to talk about this topic. We touched on this a little bit Monday, right? So yeah. How are you, Scott?

Scott Luton (00:46):

Yeah, it’s been a busy week, uh, but we’ve all as all of them are. Right. Um, but we have been looking forward to this discussion and it is, it is interesting Greg, the, the timing with, with what we talked about on the bus on Monday, um, and of course what you dropped in on social media earlier today. So we’ll talk about all of that, but, but here today, we’re talking with an individual who’s leading organization on a true noble mission, uh, to eradicate slavery and human trafficking. We’ll be learning more about this appalling travesty that still impacts, uh, many individuals, numerous countless individuals around the world have a hard time just realizing. I said that, you know, um, but it’s been in the blind spot, uh, and now we’ve got to, we need to bring it up with our, you know, our growing spotlight. We want to amplify the problem. We want to amplify those that are leading real efforts, practical efforts to address it. And, uh, as we know Greg and I, I I’m sure you agree with me here at supply chain leaders, not only do they have, are they in a unique position to do something about it, but they’ve got a massive responsibility.

Greg White (01:51):

Yeah. Amen. I mean, first of all, this isn’t a, it’s not a business or a supply chain issue. This is really a human issue it’s been going on, frankly, since the beginning of time. And as while, less than a third of the entire population of the, of the world are our slaves, as it used to be back in Prius or his early historic times, it’s still way too many. And there are so many types of slavery, you know, the central indentured servitude, human trafficking, traditional slave slavery, uh, uh, I mean, there’s just so many shapes of it. And you know, this organization is tackling every aspect of it and helping people to recognize and do something about it, but also helping companies to, you know, to eliminate their exposure to it as well. So it’s, it’s, it’s a heart-wrenching topic. So I’m just wastefully, we should drop this video

Scott Luton (02:47):

That Greg that’s the right word. Heart-wrenching, uh, and, and it’s difficult to talk about, but, um, but it’s, but we got to lean in and engage in these conversations, right? Because just like truckers against trafficking, long-term, you know, four or five months ago, I think opened up or attack this blind spot in, uh, many, uh, many of our collective, uh, blind spots. You know, I think, I think Tim Nelson with hope for justice is going to do a similar thing today. And, uh, so Galena knows conversations. Um, for the sake of time today, we want to really protect our time with Tim and this subject matter. We want to invite, you know, we’ve got a variety of webinars and events coming up. We want to direct you to supply chain now.com for all of that information. Um, welcome y’all’s participation. We’re going to say hello to a few folks, and then we’re going to bring Tim into the conversation and we’re going to dive into the story, uh, a lot more. So, uh, Greg, we’ve got, uh, we’ve got a slew of folks here, uh, tuned in today, uh, including, I’m not sure who, but someone tuned in from North Carolina, hopefully eating some good barbecue there. Uh, uh, clay and Amanda, uh, if y’all let me know who that is and

Greg White (03:49):

Let us know if it’s Eastern Carolina or Western Carolina barbecue, right.

Scott Luton (03:54):

That’s right. Um, uh, Andrea is back with us. Hey, hope this finds you.

Greg White (04:00):

Yeah. The supply chain twins.

Scott Luton (04:02):

That’s right. [inaudible] great to have you here. Once again, via LinkedIn from India, Gary Smith is back with us from New York city. Gary, how you doing? I’ll uh, Ali says good afternoon from South Africa via LinkedIn. Great to have you here. Ali,

Greg White (04:17):

Stay safe down there. There’s a lot of disruption going on down there for sure.

Scott Luton (04:22):

Great point, Jenny Froom. And I, uh, in fact, we’re overdue for a catch-up call. She was talking about some of the things that they’re experiencing and fighting through. So Jenny, if you’re with us, uh, Ali, everyone in that neck of the woods, uh, all the best Godspeed to you, Peter bullae all night and all day, he says, good afternoon, 30 degrees Celsius, 92 degrees Fahrenheit. It feels a lot hotter in Montreal. Uh, just another perfect day in paradise.

Greg White (04:46):

It is Montreal. How bad could it be? Right. Go to St. Catherine street, have us have a cool drink, pull you down.

Scott Luton (04:55):

Uh, Enrique is tuned in, uh, via LinkedIn and Rica. Great to see you here. I should say maybe Dr. [inaudible] let us know where you’re tuned in from Regina tuned in via LinkedIn from Kenya, Regina. Hope this finds you well. Great to have you here. Uh, Gabrielle, uh, Gabriel is tuned in S G S I N. Greg helped me with that.

Greg White (05:15):

Oh my gosh. We’d messed this up with Saudi Arabia. Didn’t we case spade, right. Um, but I can’t wait to hear, I like actually we need a daily challenge like this. So we learn these acronyms for some of these areas and countries,

Scott Luton (05:30):

Singapore, clay, Johnny on the spot, Singapore, maybe the port of Singapore, perhaps. Uh, but regardless Gabriel, great to have you here via LinkedIn, looking forward to your commentary here today. Uh, Suda Sharn I think I’ve got that close. I apologize if I did not get that right. Um, correct us please. But welcome via LinkedIn. Let us know where you’re tuned in from. And, uh, Andrea says supply-chain twins. Oh my gosh. That’s a great name. And of course Sophia is who Greg is referencing, which has been a great guest in the past for us.

Greg White (06:01):

Yeah. You need to get your sister on here again, Andrea.

Scott Luton (06:04):

Absolutely. And then Michelle Muhammad, many others welcome everybody looking forward to y’all being a part of this conversation here today. Okay. So Greg with no further ado, uh, I want to bring in our special guests here today, Tim Nelson CEO, with hope for justice, Tim. Good afternoon. Good evening. How are you doing, sir?

Greg White (06:25):

Welcome. Welcome to 2020 plus one. Yeah.

Tim Nelson (06:28):

Got it really, really, really great to be with you today. I hope you’re both doing well. Yeah. Thanks so

Greg White (06:33):

Much. And thanks for, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. Cause we know you’re

Scott Luton (06:37):

Busy. Your team is busy. We, we really enjoyed getting to know you and your team in recent months. Uh, and really delighted that you’re here with us to share, uh, in an, a form, the rest of us own this noble mission that all are own. But before we get to that, just quite, you know, uh, I’ve had, we’ve had a chance to get to know you a little better in these pre-show conversations. I’d like to offer our, our audience the same opportunity. So, so Tim, tell us a little about yourself.

Tim Nelson (07:01):

Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, and thanks to everybody who’s tuned in. Um, my name is Tim Nelson, as you can probably tell I’m not based in the U S um, I’m originally from Northern Ireland. Um, I’ve been in England, uh, please don’t hold that against me for the last 23 odd years. Um, but for me, um, my, my background is, uh, I have a degree in technology and, um, I spent some time within the banking world, uh, and then, uh, have been involved in, in this journey with hope for justice, uh, for the last 13 years, um, and kind of actively involved. And I set as CEO, uh, overseeing our operations life. Wow.

Scott Luton (07:41):

So Greg, this long before, um, slavery, human trafficking really hit the radars of, of even the folks that are, that, that know about it now. Uh, so Tim, um, hopefully one of the, one of the many silver linings of, of, of these challenging pandemic pandemic days is we’re getting more awareness on these issues that maybe we’ve kicked the, can down the street as a, as a global business community. Uh, and that, that’s definitely a good thing, so we can move the needle, right? Yeah.

Tim Nelson (08:08):

It’s, it’s really important. And I appreciate so much, uh, opportunities like these to talk because so, so often people think that, you know, kind of this issue of slavery was, was way back when, you know, it, it conjures up images of the transatlantic slave trade. And, you know, we talk about it and we talk about what that has meant for population groups in the U S but also internationally. But the sad reality of it is where we are today and the impact that we’re seeing on so many individuals lives. Um, you know, that the reality for things like, um, sexual exploitation hits the headlines more, but th th the reality of, for so many people who are on here who have businesses who are engaged in, in supply chains, is that actually it’s endemic within most people’s businesses. Um, and what makes people a good or bad business is not whether or not they are, uh, having modern day slavery or human trafficking in their supply chain. It’s whether firstly they’re prepared to look and then secondly, what are they going to do when they find it? Yeah,

Scott Luton (09:10):

Thank you for sharing Tim, uh, that humanizes things, um, you know, like video can only do, but Greg, where are we going from here?

Greg White (09:18):

Well, I think w you know, what’s so impactful about that is it could be next door, right? You don’t know who or where. Right. So, so Tim, I’d love for you to share a little bit more. I mean, I think we got a flavor of what hope for justice did in that case, but can you give us a little bit of an idea of kind of your overarching, why? And then some of the things that you do to help, you know, to help alleviate all of these issues globally, and maybe some unsure, there are lots of surprises here, and I know you being a tech guy, you’ve got some stats around it, so maybe share some of that as well.

Tim Nelson (09:56):

Yeah, no, Greg, thanks so much for that. Um, if I explain a little bit for everybody about how I got involved, and then I’ll open up a little bit about what we do is hope for justice. So I take myself back to 2007 and a friend of mine had asked me because of my tech background, my banking background, to accompany him to the U S to look at some businesses that he wanted to invest into. And I find myself with a night spare on them in Los Angeles, and a friend invited me out for dinner on sunset Boulevard and coming from Northern Ireland, it feels like a million miles away from everything. You know, you only see things like sunset Boulevard on films, like pretty woman, uh, just like drew conjures up so many images. And my friend asked me whether or not I, he could bring a friend along with him too.

Tim Nelson (10:40):

And when he brought a friend with him, he introduced himself as a slave hunter. And I was like, what, you know, when you go for your car insurance, that isn’t one of those categories that you can find. Um, and certainly whenever he was on the phone to me, he was on the phone to Condoleezza rice whilst regenerate, who was working for the Bush administration. And he was arguing about the downgrading of India on the human trafficking register, all things I’d not known about. And he said it was for geopolitical reasons. And he, the week before had been in Mumbai and seeing girls in cages that were being shipped all over India. And I couldn’t believe it. And he pulled out his phone and showed me these images that he’d taken on their cover. And I was scrambling to kind of give you some money. Is there something I could do to help you?

Tim Nelson (11:24):

And he said, I, I, I w I don’t need you specifically to cry, but this issue, I need you to do something and take action. And maybe just, maybe there are people to make her a crime themselves together in your city that just need you to move and do something about this issue. So I came back to the UK, spoke to everybody I knew about it. And a friend of mine introduced me to a group of people who were looking to put on an event to tell people about the issue and a bit like the lady who’s shared her story. When we were to get a story of an individual mother who could tell what had happened. We, we, we had this lady come and what shocked me was it was about nine miles away from where my house was that she was white. She was middle-class.

Tim Nelson (12:08):

And she worked for the local council and her daughter had dated a chap for 18 months. He supposedly had moved to another location for work, and she went to see his new house, and she was sold into your brothel and was there for three years, held against her will. And it’s not until the penny drops to say, actually they are someone’s daughter. They are someone’s son that you go, well, it could be my daughter. It could be my niece. It could be someone who’s related to me. We need to do something. So we held our first event. 11 months later, after the group came together, there were like kind of 10 of us that got together. And we managed to get 5,884 people together for our very first event. And we thought we might be a conduit to send money internationally, but I’d argued to the board that this is going on in my city.

Tim Nelson (12:57):

I want to know what’s going on and what we can do about it. So in our very first year of operation in the city, I live in a city that looks after an area of 2.2 million people. We mommies to rescue 110 victims of modern day slavery human trafficking. The youngest was just three months old traffic for sexual exploitation. The oldest was 58 years old traffic for labor trafficking. And as part of that, we uncovered a bed manufacturer in the UK that were making beds for two of the largest retailers. And you get hit the headlines because it was the first occurrence of slavery within the supply chain of a major multinational business to those businesses would have prided themselves on their supply chain management. But there were 33 Hungarian nationals that were brought to a bed manufacturer. And the bed manufacturer would literally that the chap who was the trafficker would literally bring groups of six of them together and hang one of them in front of the other five.

Tim Nelson (13:52):

So little was his, his view on life. When that person was just riling around about bunch choke to death, he would cut them down and say, if any, one of you leave, I’ll kill the other five. I put people under such a such oppression, such coercion that it becomes so difficult for them to deal with it. So that was really the start of hope for justice. And we went on to do amazing things with the police and the police and crime commissioner in that area too, to do training 4,800 people in half a day training for two and a half months, we set up a network. We, we worked on an MOU so that we could work in share intelligence with police and law enforcement in that grow internationally.

Scott Luton (14:30):

So if I can cut in just for a second here, because what’s powerful to me is as much as it level sets, when you think about someone’s son or daughter, or mother, or father or cousin, or you name it, but that situation is just scrubbed. There is someone’s supplier and it’s taking place and they’ve got no, oftentimes no idea, right? No idea. And I think that’s part of, especially in supply chain, right. And global supply chains, that is that’s, uh, um, that lack of awareness, uh, and the fact those transactions continued. That’s what we’ve got to. That’s a big part of the problem. I would argue Greg. I mean, what’s your, there’s no reason to be unaware

Greg White (15:10):

Of these days, frankly. I mean, if you’re unaware, you’re frankly looking the other direction. I think we’ve seen that a lot with what’s going on in ginger, which is really popular, but really just a microcosm of, of human trafficking and modern slavery in the supply chain. Because there, you know, even, even by China standards, that’s a relatively small population, still incredibly exploited, but, you know, there are still dozens and dozens of companies. It doesn’t have left and been penalized by the Chinese government and dozens and dozens, nearly a hundred still remain doing work in Jinja wrong. Or, you know, Tim, you said before we came on the air, now they’re just spreading the Weger population around

Tim Nelson (15:51):

China. Right. I, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s really difficult because I think the U S government have 148 goods that they, they prohibit coming into the U S from 76 different countries. So I don’t want people just to see this as a China issue. Right. You know, if you look at it, I can go commodity groups and issues that we start to see. You know, if, if you think of a lady she liked to wear shimmer makeup, that makeup is made primarily from the use of Mica, which is mind primarily from Judah, Stan in India. If I think about cotton production that we see in news Pakistan for t-shirts and another clothing, if I, if I think even just onto the cell phone that you’re carrying the battery in your cell phone, it relies on cobalt. And 70% of all cobalt is mined in the DRC by children and forced labor.

Tim Nelson (16:45):

You know, the reality of how close this is to home is it could be in your pocket today, the product that was made through forced labor, and even just the drive noise towards the electrification of vehicles, with their estimates, that there’s going to need to be a 30 times production further of cobalt. But yet we have not resolved the issue of cobalt. Mining companies have not dug into their supply chains to deal with it. So the weaker population, and I celebrate everything that is one incremental step towards seeing the stuff. But the reality is it’s going to take all of us to lift our heads and to actually come at this with a professional approach and deal with it, not turn the other way, greed.

Scott Luton (17:25):

So really two quick points. First off, there’s a bunch of folks that are, um, uh, big fans of the work you and your group are doing from [inaudible] to Danny, to Andrea and Andre. You’ve got a question around hope for justice as a growth we’ll address that here quickly, uh, in a minute. But, um, it typical question for you and Greg, when, when you kind of took us own dip, deep dive of the challenge on Monday, you made a clear point of saying, Hey, this is not just a China issue. This, this goes on globally. So Tim, you’re echoing that point here today. But if I can, and I don’t want to put you on the spot, and if you, if you’d rather not address it, that’s perfectly fine, but does hope for justice and in your research and in your work, do you find differing varying degrees of, um, I’ll call it governmental facilitation of slavery and human trafficking area, diplomatic Scott, yes,

Tim Nelson (18:17):

We would. We would call it an reference as state sponsored and modern day slavery or human trafficking, where, where it’s happening in, in an unprecedented level. You know, we talked about the weaker population. If we want to go to stone quarrying in India, as an example, we’ve been to one particular query where there are 30,000 families that are debt bonded to the actual stone quarry. So if you want to get that granite worktop, or suddenly someone passes away and you’re going for, for a monument in their name and grammar, I can guarantee you that there’s a high percentage chance that that’s been made by someone who’s held against their will, or in some way, indentured, to not being able to leave. It’s, it’s the sad reality of what we’re seeing. And it’s, it’s, it’s so bar it’s so easy for people to almost put their hands over their ears and not want to listen to turn away, to turn that other side.

Tim Nelson (19:13):

But the, what we, what has been said plenty of times by other people, but I think it was Edmund Burke who coined the phrase that it, all it takes for injustice to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Right? And so often it’s easy to do nothing. These kinds of conversations for companies with their suppliers when they’re interested in price and quality, we’re stepping up the level to say, no, no, no, no. You need to go way beyond that around the individuals who are involved in this. So, so that actually you can help to create a fortress within your companies within your supply chain against modern day slavery against human trafficking. All right.

Scott Luton (19:48):

So, um, I want to share a common here in Greg. I’m gonna circle back, uh, before we move forward and talk about some of the programming that hope for justice is leading Mervyn shares. And we’ve talked about Paul mow a lot, Greg Mervin sense. Yeah, that’s right. Palm oil industry worldwide got to check the impact on workers in Malaysian, in, in Indonesia, which account for approximately 85% of the production Mervin says workers, especially women work for no wages, including children, any comment there, Tim, um, Palm

Tim Nelson (20:19):

Oil is one of those products that, um, is there’s high, high awareness of the fact that most Palm oil will come through some form of forced labor. Actually, there are links directly, and I was reading articles on it today, links directly to deforestation directly connected to Palm oil, where individual companies that have had a very high rating towards their ethical Spence have not lost that high rating because they’ve been complicit towards the, of forests and the reclaiming of that land to plant Palm oil for Palm oil production. And again, this is a lot of what we’re sharing is not brand new. If anyone does searches, they can find it. But, but the reality for, for particularly Palm oil production is it’s, it’s very, very difficult to find it where it comes from a place that isn’t using some form of forced labor.

Scott Luton (21:09):

Um, you’ve got some instant supporters to big, thanks to Peter. Boulay just donated 20% support calls. I appreciate that. We appreciate that. And, uh, he also, uh, you know, share some of the social tags and the website hope for justice.org. I really appreciate that Peter bowler. Thanks. Okay. So Greg, that’s what

Greg White (21:27):

We wanted to happen to him right. Or something now, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Luton (21:34):

Um, Greg, before we maybe have Tim share more, uh, examples of programming and, and of course, how folks can jump into the battle. What else comes to your mind? Greg

Greg White (21:45):

Hair extensions immediately come into my mind. A lot of those come from in denture, rough, effectively, indentured people in India. If you get a black hair hair extension, then that is likely coming from, from slave trade,

Tim Nelson (22:02):

Right? Yeah. It is one of the things you’ve got to be conscious of as well within this is that people think that it is just Southeast Asia or India or China. They’ve got names like that. But, but I also want to bring it back to home in the U S in terms of where it sits and the ILO, which is part of the UN estimates at any one time, there are 403,000 individuals in America that are held in human trafficking, modern day slavery. So, you know, hair extensions is one product it’s easy to see. It’s something that you can directly connect with, but I just want to make sure we draw the connection for people, because otherwise you can push it in your mind to the dark corners of something that happens overseas.

Greg White (22:45):

Right. Right. It’s not, it’s not here, it’s there. Right. And I think that you’re right. That’s very, very important. And I think Andrea asked the question too. Um, Tim, do you guys have operation? I know you have operations in the states. Do you have operations in south America as well because in central America, cause she mentioned Mexico, which I would imagine is probably covered by the Nashville office. So yeah, from,

Tim Nelson (23:07):

From where we are, there’s work that we’ve done all over the globe itself in terms of where we are located at the moment we have 10 core offices and we don’t have a physical office yet in central or Southern America. Um, but, but we have a vision that we want to live in a world free from slavery. And certainly the, the, the, the vision that we have for the next 10 years of hope for justice is that God willing, we’ll be able to get to 10 times our impact within the next 10 years. And that’s going to require a massive shift because we’ve talked about this being a major problem at the estimates are another over 40 million individuals held globally in modern day slavery human trafficking. We’re going to have to have a global response. They, the traffickers themselves are actually professional about what they do.

Tim Nelson (23:52):

They’ve got a plan there that it’s serious and organized crime. We need to step up all of our efforts to, to counteract that $150 billion industry. It is estimated to be globally. Well, if you added all of the NGOs together in this space, you might only just get over 150 million pulled together per year. So we’re, we’re almost like a David and Goliath scenario, what we’re going to deal with, but what we need to get to is we need to press into a situation where we can see, uh, an exponential growth in our response to this issue. So we have plans to move through central America and south America. We’re just not there yet.

Scott Luton (24:32):

Um, a quick sidebar, of course, we’ve done our homework here and we’ll talk about some ways that we’re partnering with hope for justice here towards, into today’s show. But, you know, I think it’s important to note and for anyone donating appreciate co-req Jose, welcome Kara, great to have you back. Thanks for your donation as well. Uh, but y’all get high marks organization does from charity navigator, which of course is like one of the north stars when it comes to putting a spotlight into the nonprofits and whatnot. And in many other places we read through the annual reports really admire how the money that comes in, y’all put it to work. You put it at work, um, unlike some other very well-known, um, organizations that, that, you know, operate under that non nonprofit umbrella. But when you, when you scrutinize what spent, I mean, it can be in single digits sometimes, which is, is talk about disappointing. Um, so Tim, talk to us a little more, uh, you’ve already kind of touched on it a couple of different times, but when it comes to programming, give us more examples of what you’re doing as well as, you know, beyond making donations, uh, because any organization of course gotta have funds to, to, to, um, lead the battle that you are, but how else can folks get, get into can support?

Tim Nelson (25:42):

No, that’s great questions go. I essentially hope for justice is broken into four key components. We’ve got the prevention work that we want to do because actually we want to end this. We’re probably one of the only organizations that saying we should be putting ourselves out of business in what we’re trying to do, but prevention enables it to stop happening. We’re doing that all over the world. But one of the key ways that we’ve launched, which directly connects with supply chains is we set up a division within hope for justice, which is known as slave free Alliance. And with there, we work with major multinationals to remove slavery from their supply chain. If, um, we launched that into the U S in the last couple of months, and, and certainly we started it in the UK. And from a UK context, we’re dealing with NAI, um, nine of the biggest top 100 companies in the UK, helping them internationally remove slavery from their supply chains, where we’re working across borders, working across continents to try and help them to determine what are the biggest risks to their supply chain.

Tim Nelson (26:41):

So one of the ways I would I’d highlight in terms of prevention, work that people can hear about is let’s get involved by being part of slavery Alliance connected to everything that hope for justice is doing is, is a key component of how people can make a difference. If we look at how we are also running alongside that, we go into rescue. You’ve heard in the story that we shared in the video. We’ve a team of investigators, outreach workers, those individual who are finding cases of human trafficking, modern day slavery, all of the places that we work, we have a team that are looking at issues around, um, how we can help support those individuals that we find. So just one case that came to the fore in, um, policing terms went to court in 2019. We had one case that we’d been working on from 2015, and we’d supported somewhere in the region of 93 individuals through to a place of, of seeing their traffickers convicted.

Tim Nelson (27:38):

That takes a lot of work to turn, hold the hands of those individuals. And in the court case where we sold the prosecutions happen, the actual judge had said that it was estimated, there are over 400 victims that had come through just that one trafficking gang. Now it happened in the UK, but it was one of the mark done as the largest case that had come through on just two weeks ago, three of the kingpins involved in that case got prosecuted. And really prosecution sends a signal to say, this will not be tolerated. We are coming after you, we’re coming after your assets. And we combined with the law enforcement. We’re going to make sure that we stop you in your tracks, in what you’re doing. So rescues a key component we’re talking restore, and we want to try and see those individuals. Many of which have been through incredibly traumatic circumstances.

Tim Nelson (28:32):

We want to see those individuals become whole, and we provide trauma informed care, work with other agencies to try and hold the hands and, and working together combined with other great NGOs to try and make sure that we can help in all of the countries we operate in to ensure that people get the right restoration. And finally, the fourth area that we do is, is around restoration and reform. So what we want to try and see through reform is we want to see legislation change so that it prohibits things happening. We want to try and make sure that we work on bills in different countries. And we’re working with a partnership with the OCE, even in Europe. And there’s another 26 countries that are looking to bring modern slavery legislation into European. And again, we’re working with companies to try and help them through those processes. So again, all of our programs, we’re nine, 10 countries that we have, and we’ve got quite a, an ambition to be in a lot more countries to try and help, but in all of the countries, we’ve got a thought through professional approach to what we want to try and do to end this.

Scott Luton (29:34):

So, uh, uh, Greg, and we’ll get your take taking just a second and we’ll share a couple of quick comments here. Folks. We had art high pressure Mesher joined us yesterday. Talk about, um, an incredible thought leader in industry, former CEO of Decart, uh, he’s he founded 10 supply chain tech companies worth a whopping $10 billion of market valuation now. Uh, but he talks about, and, and several the comments talk about some of the, some of the scoring that, that, uh, it takes place in industry, right? He mentioned here EcoVadis EcoVadis maybe has an ESG score. You can check out till book who also scores suppliers, um, Tim, have you all had any success and, and, and do y’all work get involved in kind of those certifications that are out there

Tim Nelson (30:16):

And industry. So w we try not to certify individuals, um, just to kind of for full disclosure, I think because, um, individual supply chains, as most we’ll know on this call are, are they’re transient. You know, today you might be dealing with one supplier tomorrow, you might not be dealing with somebody different. So it’s very difficult for people to give you a bad juror certification and say, you’re good because that supply chain is evolving every single day. So what we talk about is working towards a slave free supply chain. And part of that is identifying through gap analysis where the red risks are. That could be the countries of operation, the products. It, you know, we’re, uh, we just recently had a major multinational that was talking with us about their, their board wanted to shift supply from China to South Korea. And what did we think about that?

Tim Nelson (31:04):

And could we do undercover assessments on those individual companies to see what the likelihood was to see modern day slavery and human trafficking happening. That’s where we get involved. And we want to really be the trusted friend for business. We’re not there to expose people and tell people that these people are bad people. We’re trying to work with business to say, we want to have a thought-through response to this and help you help you to read this heinous crime from your supply chain, help you to have a response to, because most people on this call, they don’t want to have it happening in any form within their supply chain.

Scott Luton (31:38):

Right. That’s right, Greg, but, but your thoughts are racing.

Greg White (31:43):

Okay. Yeah. I’m curious at the highest level, Tim, are we seeing an increase or a decline in global slavery and, um, and these companies that you’re helping, you know, as I thought about the slave free Alliance, I was thinking, um, are those companies being back-filled by other companies that are participating or is that actually reducing the, the use of slave labor in places? Because we talked earlier about, um, you know, the companies like H and M and Nike who have declared, they won’t do business in Jinja, John, they have been, they’ve basically ceased to exist in the face of China. Uh, you know, in, on, in terms of online sales and H and M stores can no longer be found if you do a ride hailing app, for instance. So there’s been a lot of repercussions there. Obviously the Chinese government is actively fighting back against this. Um, but sorry, that was a lot of questions, wasn’t it? So, first of all, are we seeing an increase or decrease? I mean, what, what direction are we seeing?

Tim Nelson (32:45):

Okay. The sad reality because of the pandemic COVID-19, we’re seeing that actually there’s an exponential increase going through at the moment in this issue, we’re probably set back 15 years because of the pandemic in our estimates as to what’s happened. So I’ll tell you how that plays out. You’ve you’ve had individuals who, because of government lockdowns have missed crop rotations and harvests those individuals have then struggling to buy the seed that they need to plant for the next harvest, because they’ve missed a crop, struggling to feed their families. What can happen is famine sets in or an in that famine scenario, you get desperation. And those individuals, you get traffickers who can spot weaknesses and can step in and see those individuals, traffic all over the world. You know, the, the reality of what we’re seeing and the reports that we’re getting all over the world from places that you will have known of in places that you won’t have, is that it, this is increasing.

Tim Nelson (33:44):

We had, we have a story that came to us at ju just a couple of years ago of an individual lady who was trafficked because someone came to her village in Vietnam and what sold the, the fact that their daughter was going to get a good job to the parents was that the trafficker gave a kilo of sugar. So per were they that Akila of sugar made them feel that the daughter is going to be okay, and that daughter was sold into, into trafficking, but that is not on speed all over the world where we’re starting to see individuals, a massive groups of people in absolute desperation. So to your first point, it, the problem isn’t getting, isn’t getting glass. In fact, it’s picking up in tempo and because of government’s responses to this, we’re seeing governments turning a blind eye to what has happened, almost devolving, any responsibility that they have just to businesses to deal with it, because they’re, they’re caught up in how do they deal with the pandemic and the waves that are coming through. So, although in some countries, we’re not getting to a point where we’re actually, it’s better than it was in with COVID-19 in other countries that we’re operating in, in Uganda and Cambodia and places like that. We see new webs come through, and those restrictions are adding to the complications around modern day slavery, human trafficking they’re happening.

Scott Luton (35:04):

All right. So I want to share a couple of quick comments here. Uh, Andrea says she speaks to kind of, because of Beck’s cause location, it serves the middle path passage for this kind of stuff. As it’s heartbreaking to hear human

Greg White (35:17):

Trafficking is a huge part of the GDP of Mexico. I mean, not, not always sex trafficking, right? Of course, but quotas moving illegals to the states that is a multi-billion dollar business. And because as she said, because of where they lie between central America and the states, um, and the collapse of those governments down there are more and more people coming through there.

Scott Luton (35:39):

Mm yeah. Mervin says Tim, one of the best things I’ve heard today that hope for justice, does it hand out certifications, like order winners for supply chain? Do you want to respond to that really quick, Tim?

Tim Nelson (35:50):

There are those organizations. And, uh, most of them it’s, it’s like $10,000. That’s all you got to pay. And they give you a certificate that you can put on the wall. But, but you know, we know where the good guys and the bad guys, because the good guys are willing to actually ask the right questions. They they’ll put their hands up and go, we know we don’t have a right response to this. Can you help us? And that’s where, when you get real honesty behind the w you know, we, we sign NDAs with companies. So they’re not going to be worried that we’re going to expose them. But when we get real honesty from companies going, actually we think we’ve got an issue here. Can you help us then, you know, from a place of honesty, you can start to deal with an issue. If you’ve got someone who wants to just whitewash the issue, then they’ll want to whitewash the response.

Tim Nelson (36:35):

So if you’re a company on here wanting to whitewash the response, you know, we’re not the right guys for you because actually we want to see an end to this. But if, if people want to take it seriously and they want to say, actually not on my watch, I don’t want to be one of those companies that are allowing this to happen. It’s our time, it’s our turn to do something significant. And I truly believe that if there are people on here who, who actively want to do something, it’s not about just hoping for justice, you need to act for justice. That is

Greg White (37:03):

A, the name. Are you Tim? I mean, it really is action for justice that you’re doing, right.

Tim Nelson (37:10):

Yes. Excellent. Absolutely. But I think that’s where we say hope and action. It’s not just good enough to have a dream that you might want to live in a slave free world. You need to have a plan. And that plan needs to be orchestrated. Yeah, no

Scott Luton (37:25):

Doubt. You know, around here we say deeds, not words, uh, because to your point, it is act for justice and, you know, you give from what you can, you give what you have. Right. Um, and I really appreciate the folks that have, that have just, you know, uh, donated here just in this moment, but more importantly, you know, finding ways to take action in your own daily journeys or supporting hope for justice, taking action and supporting hope for justice. So critically important. I want to get to, um, really quick. I’ll tell ya, you blink and 45 minutes has gone, Tim. I know you’ve got a jam packed calendar. Um, so we are big believers and you give from what you have. And we’ve created an event, uh, an awards event, the global supply chain and procurement awards in December, and a big part of that early planning, Greg, as you and me and the team and our friend Kelly Barner and Phil Addis, and some others, uh, with buyers meeting point and art of procurement respectively, we didn’t want it just to be another virtual event.

Scott Luton (38:23):

You know, we’re big believers in celebrating the good news, because there’s so much to celebrate that global supply chains have done to get through this pandemic, right. And still do you know, think about an hour. We’re going to spend here, you got truck drivers, moving stuff. You’ve got retail, clerks check, and folks out, you got, uh, pickers and Packers and, and fulfillment centers latent. E-commerce, you know, happen. None of those things get celebrated and they should, but as we were planning for this event, uh, and, and celebrate, and some of these things that go on Greg and I, and the gang were were like, okay, how can this, how can this have purpose, right? How can this really stand out and help us tackle these things that we talk about all the time in the news and Greg baking that purpose into this event that takes place December 8th, 20, 21 is really important. Uh, your take, and then I’ll talk about kind of how, what it looks like. Well, I mean,

Greg White (39:11):

You know, we have, we have a global audience here, right? And we want to celebrate global supply chain. And at the same time we want to impact this issue really, really significantly. Right. It’s funny. I just saw [inaudible] uh, asked where did we go wrong as a civilization, as sad as tragic situation as we’re in today, we have to acknowledge that slavery is not a new problem. It started basically at the beginning of man, and it used to be a much, much greater portion of, of the, you know, of the population, right? Entire peoples were enslaved for centuries. Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians. It’s a tradition has been a tradition in warfare that whoever loses the war becomes the slaves of those who win. And, um, I think that at least we have eradicated that overt and acceptable, um, form of slavery. And now it’s much, much more covert.

Greg White (40:08):

It is much, much more nefarious. Um, but at least we are making progress as a civilization. And we’ve had, we have organizations like hope for justice that are, that are making that change into action, right? Translating, as you said, Tim, that hope into action, actually doing something about, uh, human trafficking and sex trafficking and slavery in all of its forms. Um, and I, and you know, that just spoke to us. It’s always spoken to me and it just spoke to us. And that’s why we wanted to make that a big part of the global supply chain and procurement awards, the Skippy’s Tim,

Scott Luton (40:44):

But Hey, we should say, don’t take our word for it. Hey, kick the tires, read the financial reports, hope for justice puts out. Let’s do that quick and then give the pro

Greg White (40:55):

Bar in your wallet and proud 25 bucks.

Scott Luton (40:58):

So, uh, but you can take our word for it if you’d like, cause we we’ve done the homework and really admire, um, the culture and, and the operation that is hope for justice. And, and of course the noble mission. So, but December eight, th this is just very simple, how it’s gonna work December 8th is, uh, the virtual event, the global supply chain procurement awards. Uh, we’ve got a variety of categories, uh, uh, covering end to end supply chain, as you all might imagine, including some leadership, uh, you know, we’re, we love talking leadership and real leadership action focused leadership, but it will have a slew of awards. Um, and, and anyone can nominate, right? There’s a nomination. And the good news is every single dollar for the nomination fees are going to hope for justice and better yet a big chunk of any potential sponsors.

Scott Luton (41:42):

Whereas we have continued to have conversations. There are going to fuel the operations at hope for justice, but most importantly, because as much as I’d love to be Greg CBS or ABC, or, or CNN or you name it right, we’re working hard. But most importantly, what we can give is we want to give lots of awareness to hope for justice, but also more importantly, this high heinous travesty that is slavery and human trafficking. So, um, that’s how it works. You can learn more supply chain, procurement awards.com plug in is it’s going to be free to attend and celebrate as well as take part in some of the discussions that go on, but a learn more global or rather supply chain, procurement awards.com and, um, plug-in with us. Okay. So, uh, Tim, any, uh, you know, I didn’t give you a chance to, to weigh in here, Greg and I like we’re, we talked a lot when we get excited, at least I do, but Tim, uh, about the partnership, any, any comments on your end?

Tim Nelson (42:39):

Um, I’m just so thrilled to be partnering with you. I feel real honor and privilege for hope for justice to, to come alongside and partner with you together for the awards. Uh, I think, you know, when people step up and do this type of action, it says a lot about the culture of your organization and the culture that you’re building, because it’s all too easy to, to not do anything. It’s all too easy to walk away and turn a blind eye Passover on the other side. But the reality of what you’re doing is actually going to manifest itself in people finding freedom. So when people do apply for awards, they may feel that that, that, that that’s a token gesture in terms of what they’re doing. But I know more than not that actually what that’s going to do is it’s going to equate to people walking free and we’ve seen time and time again, you know, just in our, in our annual report, which we’re due to release very shortly.

Tim Nelson (43:36):

You will see the numb amount of individuals, of children that we’ve taken from exploitation and modern day slavery find their families and brought them home. And for me, I’d walk through walls, having seen it happen to make it happen again. Now we’ve been to individuals who the parents have conducted funeral services, thinking that the children had died and we bring them home. Can you imagine what that joy is there now for you partnering in that situation? You’re partnering to make that happen, bring that level of joy to, to a family that is multi-generational impact. So don’t just see it as a, as a, as an awards and pass over it. Start to see it as a real marker in the sand for bringing freedom and bringing freedom in an unprecedented way. So my hope in the partnership and collaboration that we have is that will start to get excited by what you’re doing.

Tim Nelson (44:34):

People will see that actually this isn’t just representative of hope for justice. This represents the values and the culture that you’re building across all of supply chain across all of the awards that you’re building. And that actually that community have a lot to be proud of in what you’re doing. And I salute you in it because as I say, I know what comes on the other side of it, of those individuals who find freedom. And I just, one quick, very quick story on this. I had the privilege of taking a team to climb Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, just at the end of 2019. And we went to see our program that we have in Ethiopia, just beforehand. And I’ve been in the program probably five minutes in one of our, what we call lighthouses hoses, short-term transition centers. And there was a dad who had traveled six hours to go and pick up his daughter.

Tim Nelson (45:22):

Hadn’t seen her for months. And when you watch it as a, an outsider looking in seeing what happened, honestly, it will break you. And that’s why I’m, I would want people to see this event and to say, oh my gosh, I’m definitely going to book in. I’m going to book into multiple categories. I’m going to step up and bring people to this. And I’m going to go and find other individuals who can be a part of this, because this is a community we can believe in that are going to bring freedom in an unprecedented way. Well,

Scott Luton (45:52):

I’m not sure how to follow that up, Greg, Dan doesn’t. Yeah. If that doesn’t get your blood going. Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. That’s the, that’s the most important thing, but you know, if that doesn’t get your blood going, if that doesn’t call you to action, if that doesn’t stand the hair up on onto your neck, check your pulse, uh, you get to a doctor, but Tim, I really, again, admire what you are doing. Um, we want to help however we can and getting the word out and amplifying these conversations and, and really, it might sound weird, but amplifying the, the, the challenge that, that exists, because, you know, uh, as I was sending a message to someone earlier, it’s unbelievable to talk about slavery in 2021. And, and to hear also, not only is it not going away, it’s getting bigger. Um, and just the sheer scope of it, uh, globally. So, um, we’ve got a lot of work to do. Uh, so Greg, that’s the best I could respond. Tim’s very eloquent and passionate, um, words earlier. How would you, uh, before I asked him to, uh, share how folks can connect with him and hope for justice, what else would you say there, Greg? Well,

Greg White (46:59):

First of all, I want to say it’s an honor to spend time with you and to understand your commitment here. This is a guy who sat down at dinner with someone he didn’t know, and then went to become head of a charity from that discussion, right. Who gave up, I’m sure a lucrative banking career to do this. I don’t know what speaks greater volumes to commitment and, and to, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, why write it then that, I mean, it’s, that is a massive commitment. I thank you. So for it, and thank you for letting us be a part of it. And, you know, I hope we do. You proud. I really, really think that we can bring some awareness here and of course bring some funding to it as well, and, um, you know, help to eradicate this. But my gosh, man, thank you so much for your commitment to, you know, to start and drive this thing. It’s, it’s inspiring

Scott Luton (47:52):

Well said, okay, I’m going to share a couple of comments and then we’re going to close out with Tim, making sure folks know how to connect. Uh, art says agree that supply chains transience is why you can, is why you can certify the chain. But I think any location will be proud to revitalize themselves as slave free. Somehow be nice to reward those with our shared values, some good housekeeping seal of approval. Perhaps we can make the world a better place in supply chain. And this is a wonderful example of a quest for goodness. I liked that last part, the quest for goodness. And then, uh, Gary says, Hey, thanks for sharing your company store today. Slavery is terrible crime against humanity that needs to be eradicated. And then on a lighter note, because it’s been really important to maintain our sense of humor, uh, throughout, uh, all of these times here, I got to share so Nour as her FOD says hello to Peter Ole Ole Ole Rob says, get back to Ortona Fahd. It’s about her father says he’s all covered. He’s tracking until the next shipment. So her Fahd and Rob and Gary, and, and really the whole gang, Rhonda, you name it. Thanks so much for showing up here today. Okay. So, uh, Tim let’s make sure folks know how to connect with you. And then of course get your final, uh, final few words here. Yeah,

Tim Nelson (49:08):

Definitely. And again, a massive thank you for, for the invitation to come on and share and partner. Um, if anyone wants to reach out, you can do that. You can find us on hope for justice.org. You can find me Tim Nelson. You can find me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, whatever, whatever way you need to, you can drop us an email@infoathopeforjustice.org. All of those means are at your disposal. One thing I would say to you is most people think about doing something and then don’t, and I want to drive a thought that you have is that if you want to see something happen, you need to act today because it is the action that engages you. And people often say to us that what we’re trying to do across hope for justice internationally is impossible, but we choose to greet impossible with the words that Muhammad Ali said.

Tim Nelson (50:01):

And he said, impossible is just a big word thrown around by small minded. Men who find it easier to live in a world they’ve been given than the power they have to change it. That impossible is nothing impossible is temporary. Impossible is a dare and I’m daring. Every single person who’s listening to this, whether live or after the event that today, go check out hope for justice.org, understand the issues of modern day slavery, human trafficking in your supply chain and do something about it. Like when I find out about it, when I met a friend of a friend out for dinner, don’t ever know, I close your eyes or your ears to what this issue is and understand the power that you have to change it because when you step up and get passionate about it, people take notice when you start to ask questions, it changes people’s mindset. So we really want to thank you for, for listening to my Irish lilt today, but really want to encourage you to do something, to make a difference.

Scott Luton (50:57):

Tim man, we got to have a lot more to Nelson here. I mean, that is, if that it’s just inspiring on top of the, your mission, uh, and, uh, and who doesn’t love a great Muhammad Ali quote, what a special moment actually,

Greg White (51:09):

With an Irish accent, somehow it makes it even

Scott Luton (51:13):

You’re right, Greg. All right. So folks be sure to connect with Tim, be sure to connect with hope for justice, but most importantly, be sure to take action to Nelson CEO at hope for justice. Big. Thanks for your time here today. Thank you so much. I’m ready. I don’t, we’re going

Greg White (51:31):

To wrap this up quick. I’m barely hanging on here.

Scott Luton (51:34):

It’s filming, but gosh, you know, I, I mentioned, uh, maybe not here on, on live shrimp, certainly in the pre show then that when I first met Tim and of course, uh, drew his colleague who is also a great individual doing big things. I told you that Tim had me ready to run through the walls behind me. I mean, that’s the kinda kind of individually is. And most importantly what’s cool about that is he’s not, you know, leading the baseball team or he’s not, you know, not doing this or that he’s doing meaningful work to save lives. And, and that sounds dramatic, but it is, that’s exactly what it is. So, um, you know, you feel good about leaders like Tim leading the noble mission, that hope for justice zone, but Greg, before I do rap and big, thanks to everybody here. Uh, your final words,

Greg White (52:19):

What do we talk about on every single show give forward. Right. I want to reiterate, this is a guy who, from a dinner meeting with someone he didn’t know, took over an organization that is changing lives every single day, that is literally saving people and putting families back together, saving people from oppression and abuse and unspeakable trauma. And, um, and clearly he feels it right. And I think, you know, the thing that’s really inspiring for me is that we can do so much about it in supply chain, right? We can know who those people are. We can know how to avoid using them, of course, but also to expose who they are and, and to help organizations like hope for justice and, and real authorities to do something about it, to end it not to just avoid interacting with these organizations, but to end it.

Greg White (53:14):

And I think that’s an important thing, uh, is, uh, you know, our participation as supply chain professionals to end this, not just avoid it, not just as he said, whitewash it and get companies off of our vendor roster, but to identify who these companies are and to put it in the hands of people who can actually change something, you don’t even have to end it yourself. But if you know about it, you can notify even just him and his investigators to help eradicate these, whatever the hell you want to call them bastards right. From, from the practice. Right. Right.

Scott Luton (53:48):

So here’s the deal folks. Um, you, when you talk about slavery, if you, if you’ve had some experiences, you will shock people. When you talk about that, it still exists in the numbers that exist globally here today, you will shock people. If that is all you can do, do that. Right. Do that. That might just prompt somebody to do a Google search and have that Eureka moment. Gosh, families are being fought. I mean, think about the human factor, but do that take whatever steps you can, you know, as we close here that really especially hope for justice and the word hope, uh, always makes me think of, of the state of South Carolina is a state motto, you know, doom, Sparrow, Sparrow, I believe. And my Latin’s not perfect, but it’s, while I breathe, I hope, uh, let’s take that a step further. I think even more importantly is while I breathe, I act, and that’s what we want to challenge you to do here today.

Scott Luton (54:42):

Connect with Tim connect for hope for justice, don’t even fits outside of anything we’re doing with hope for justice, get involved and, and make sure you talk up the issue because it’s impacting hundreds of thousands of certainly individuals, but families around the world. Uh, and on that note on behalf of our entire team here finished work hard. But most importantly, on behalf of Greg and Amanda and clay and Allie and Jayda and the whole supply chain, our team, including the hope for justice, um, heroes had do good gift forward. Be the change that’s needed, be like Tim Nelson. And on that note, we’ll see you next time and do it today. That’s right. Amen. Talk soon.

Intro/Outro (55:21):

Thanks for being a part of our supply chain. Now, community check out all of our programming@supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to supply chain. Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. See you next time on supply chain. Now.