Narrator [00:00:04]:
Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today’s critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.
Scott W. Luton [00:00:31]:
Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. Scott Luton and special guest Mike Griswold with you here on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to Today’s show. Mike, how you doing?
Mike Griswold [00:00:43]:
I’m doing great, Scott. I wish I could have connected with you at our symposium, but it sounds like it was a great event and hopefully you had a good time and got everything out of it that you were hoping for.
Scott W. Luton [00:00:53]:
Oh, it was a great event. And folks were talking about, of course, the Gartner Supply Chain Symposium and Expo 2024. That just is rapping as we’re recording this in Orlando. But one of my favorite things there, Mike, is I connected with probably five folks that I’ve known and collaborated with digitally for years and met them in person for the first time in real life. And that was real, real rewarding. So good stuff, Mike.
Mike Griswold [00:01:18]:
One of the things that we get lots and lots of positive feedback about from the event, obviously, the content and the speaking and the speakers. But just a lot of people have those same experiences that you have, Scott, where they’ve, you know, interacted with people virtually forever. And the networking opportunities at our events are some of the things we get some of the most positive feedback about. So was great that you’re able to connect with folks and that you haven’t necessarily been able to in person.
Scott W. Luton [00:01:50]:
Well, you know, just to belabor the point, I’ll tell you that on day one, uh, during the happy hour, that’s in the main lobby of the Walt Disney Dolphin and Swan. I have never seen that many folks, other than football games, maybe, but you should seen it was a bevy of activity. Folks were having fun, celebrating a long first day. A lot of fun had by all. So I was going to say, Mike, almost as good as our conversation teed up here today, because backed by proper demand, one of our longest running and most popular series, Supply Chain today and tomorrow with Mike Griswold from Gartner. Mike, of course, serves as vice president analyst with Gartner. And on today’s episode, we’re going to dive into a couple of things, including a key takeaway from one of the opening keynotes at Gartner’s supply chain symposium and what Mike’s take on. So stay tuned for a wonderful, actionable intriguing conversation with the one and only Mike Griswold.
Scott W. Luton [00:02:51]:
All right, so, Mike, we had a little fun talking about the symposium, but I’ve got another fun warm up question for you. So important global holiday. It’s reward yourself day. So now our audience may know some of the ways that we reward ourselves in the Luton household. Saturday morning at the farmers market, quick weekend trips, good food and great company. All of those, as much as often as we can. What about you? When you want to unplug from email and step away from all things work related, how do you reward yourself?
Mike Griswold [00:03:21]:
Probably no surprise to people that have joined us in the past is trying to get out for a few holes at golf. I just find that a great way. Golf isn’t necessarily associated with relaxing, but it is nice to get out there. I try to walk as much as I can. I just find that a great way to kind of forget about work challenges and then just worry about golf challenges and then. Now that the weather here in Boise is starting to turn, my wife and I, usually on Sundays, will take a bike ride. She really likes to ride. She rides typically a lot farther than I do, but we’ll do 15 to 20 miles on a Sunday.
Mike Griswold [00:04:02]:
There’s a very nice greenbelt area that runs through Boise. Very pretty down by the river. So super, super relaxing. Getting back out and doing that and getting a little bit of exercise.
Scott W. Luton [00:04:15]:
I love it. 15, 20 miles, man, that’s a quite a journey.
Mike Griswold [00:04:20]:
Yeah.
Scott W. Luton [00:04:21]:
Getting serious about that bike riding.
Mike Griswold [00:04:23]:
Those are shorter days for her. She’ll normally ride during the weekend. She’ll do 25, 26, usually in a morning.
Scott W. Luton [00:04:32]:
Well, golf and bike riding sounds great to me. Add a trip to the farmers market and that is quite a triple. All right, we got to get to work here, Mike. I like to get into. I want to start by discussing a big topic that was part of one of the opening keynotes, if not the opening keynote at, of course, Gartner Supply chain Symposium in Orlando. And folks, especially for your chief supply chain officers, guess what? There’s even more to deliver now. Mike, your colleague Tom Enright gave a great keynote where he said the following, quote, stakeholders perceive that the worst of the supply chain crisis has receded and CSCO’s now face the prospect of being allocated fewer resources with the expectation of returning to a role more confined within the enterprise to maximize their impact, influence and value delivered across the enterprise. Tom offered this three part framework define focus areas and limits, build multi role supply chain organization, and identify and deliver multivalue plays.
Scott W. Luton [00:05:34]:
Mike, what’s your take it was a.
Mike Griswold [00:05:36]:
Very, I think, interesting keynote from the standpoint of, I think, acknowledging a couple of things. One, the continuing change of the role of the supply chain and the chief supply chain officer, as well as acknowledging that there are new and different challenges that CSCOs are facing. If we think about the run up to the pandemic and the role that the supply chain had was really a kind of a focus on execution and not a lot of expectations around things like growth and innovation, then the pandemic hits. The supply chains, I think, by and large, demonstrated their ability to work through that and drive value for the organization in a very unsettled and disruption laden time. When we look at some of our research during the pandemic, we saw many organizations, those that would be classified, say, as low performing and those that we classify as high performing. The role of the CSCO was elevated. They were in a lot more discussions. They had a larger seat at the table.
Mike Griswold [00:06:58]:
They were viewed as a much more integral part of the organization. If I look at some of that same research that we’ve done more recently, we’ve definitely seen a delineation between high performers and low performers, where low performing organizations are demonstrating some of those attributes that Tom talked about, which is the relegating back of the supply chain to more of an execution function. People not really looking to tap into some of the skills that we demonstrated during the pandemic. And our seat at the table either getting removed, like that crazy uncle at Christmas time who you don’t have a seat for, you put them out in the kitchen right to. In high performing organizations, we still have that seat at the table. And I think what Tom’s message was is in order for you to retain that seat at the table during this time. Now where we’re on the other side of the pandemic and people are now starting to either forget about the supply chain capabilities or, in some instances, kind of take us for granted. There are some new things we need to start to do.
Mike Griswold [00:08:12]:
And I think that was hopefully the big takeaway for the audience was if we want to retain our seat at the table, if we want to be able to continue to demonstrate the value of our supply chain to our organization and to our ecosystem, we have to start doing things differently.
Scott W. Luton [00:08:31]:
Yes. Well said. Hey, when you think about the evolution of c suite roles, do you think the CSCO role, which is still fairly, fairly new, you know, do you think that’s got a more unique evolution than some of the others come and gone, some of the long, long current ones? How do you stack that evolution up?
Mike Griswold [00:08:53]:
That’s a great perspective, Scott, and I agree completely in that I think the evolutions happen in multiple ways as well. To your point, that evolution is a great way to describe it if you think about just how we define the role. If people were able to see Simon Baileys 20th anniversary presentation around the supply chain top 25, Simon walked through the evolution of the supply chain over the last 20 years. The one element though, to your point, is we’ve only been calling it a supply chain for a relatively short period of time. Things like logistics, transportation, distribution. That’s how we defined it very narrowly. As organizations got better and they got to start to think more end to end, we started to introduce this idea of a supply chain, and then we started, to your point, introduce, well, we need someone to run this. But I think even though we’ve been evolving the CFCO title in many organizations, the responsibilities still haven’t necessarily changed.
Mike Griswold [00:10:07]:
We’ve called them a cheap supply chain officer, but they don’t necessarily have the demand signal. They don’t maybe manage aspects of new products. Maybe they don’t even have influence around sourcing and procurement. So I think the role continues to evolve, and I think what our research tells us, and when you look at top 25 companies, that role, while it evolves, it evolves in a positive way. In terms of span of control, the span of control gets larger. Now, I’m not here to tell you that your chief supply chain officer has to run the world to be successful. What I am telling you though, is if your chief supply chain officer is only looking at distribution centers and transportation, then you’re not taking advantage of probably that individual skill sets as well as you’re not taking advantage of what an end to end orientation around your supply chain can bring. You just look at our top 25 companies and how they perform in terms of revenue growth, in terms of return on physical assets, in terms of inventory turns.
Mike Griswold [00:11:16]:
And the majority of our top 25 companies have that broader definition of the supply chain. So I think we are going to continue to iterate on this title. And my hope is not only from people that were at the symposium, but people that continue to read our research that we need to continue to expand how we think about that role. Many organizations have started to fold in sustainability, in it, into that chief supply chain officer role, of slipping back into this idea of taking your supply chain for granted, not utilizing the skills of the people in those roles to really create value for the supply chain. And again, that’s another one of those underlying messages that Tom had on Monday is you have this, I will say in some organizations, underappreciated, I would say in many organizations, and underutilized resource or muscle in your organization that can drive revenue and support innovation.
Scott W. Luton [00:12:23]:
Agreed. Great points there. I’m glad I followed up with that question to get those additional ways that not only the functional areas, the skill sets, the craft, and of course, the leadership, titles and roles, all that’s been constantly evolving. So thank you for sharing. All right, my good stuff. I want to get into our second topic now. I gotta. I must be late to the party, maybe real late to the party when it comes to this phrase that’s been used for a long time now.
Scott W. Luton [00:12:51]:
I was talking with my new friend, John Desarbo from ZS at the symposium this week, and he uses phrase that really resonated, don’t pave the cows pass. Don’t pave the cows pass. Mike. Now, I got to tell you, to me, there’s a lot of different ways we can interpret this phrase. For me, it’s like, don’t over solution a problem that doesn’t even really exist. Right. And this is where maybe it stuck in my. In my crawl when I was working at one manufacturing plant in my career, Mike, there was a farm right across the road from my office.
Scott W. Luton [00:13:24]:
This is my metal stamping days, right. And on those really tough days where things just weren’t going right, I can really recall gazing out my window and watching these cows move from one end to the other end through these dirt trails that you could tell they’ve been doing, you know, trotting these trails forever. And it really took me back to the, where I was getting. Not rewarding myself, but I was daydreaming a minute from some of the pain I was feeling in the, in the operation. So your take on this old adage of don’t pave the cow’s path.
Mike Griswold [00:13:56]:
Yeah, it’s an interesting one, Scott, and I think it’s got a cousin in terms of putting lipstick on a pig. Right. I think those two, I don’t know if they have the same origin, but I think the message that they’re conveying, I think are pretty similar. Right. If we close our eyes and we think about what a cow path looks like, you gave a good description there, you know, a. The cows travel the same path back and forth every day, and they just wear a path into the ground. If we think about supply chains and we think about business in general, it’s very easy for us to say, let’s change a process. And let’s just pour a batch of cement over these cow paths and let’s call it a day.
Mike Griswold [00:14:39]:
If the path the cows were taking was not the most efficient path, or not the best path, or not the safest path, all we’ve done is it made it easier for them to follow that path. And I think the message here is, when it comes time to revisit that path, when it comes time to revisit a particular process or a particular activity, we want to resist the temptation to take the easy road and just pave over it. And if we think about applicability, it could be, let’s avoid just making a tweak to a system. Let’s avoid even potentially just throwing a new system in, that all it’s going to do for us is let us get to bad things faster. That’s what we really have to avoid. And I think it’s one of those things where in today’s environment, and Tom talked a little bit about this in his keynote as well, around how we have these grand ambitions, around projects and improvements and initiatives that we want to work on. But the minute it gets hard, we tend to start to descope, we tend to give people other things to do, and we lose sight of the fact of what we were really trying to do. So I think it’s a great kind of metaphor or analogy.
Mike Griswold [00:16:02]:
And my advice to people is when you’re on an exercise like that, it’s often better to just forget that the cow path is even there and ask yourselves, what are we trying to do between point a and point b, and what’s the best way to get there? And very, very infrequently, is it to pave over the cow path.
Scott W. Luton [00:16:23]:
Yes. Who would have thought we would learn so much from a day at the farm? My, huh? Pigs, cows, who knows what’s next? Ducks, chickens? But I enjoyed your take on that. Even you see how it resonated with me and how I interpreted that metaphor or analogy, whichever one it is, and your take, which they had some similarities, but it’s pretty different. It can be different to everybody. But what it doesn’t change is those. Those little cows. As I was taking a break from metal stamping and all the challenges there within, and watching how easy their day was going back and forth on those non paving cow paths. If it were only that easy, Mike.
Mike Griswold [00:17:09]:
Especially in this virtual world that we work in today, who hasn’t looked over and seen their dog or their cat just kind of laying in the sun with not a care in the world, right?
Scott W. Luton [00:17:21]:
Yes.
Mike Griswold [00:17:21]:
Or looked over at your fish tank and saw your fish just kind of merrily swimming along, blowing their bubbles without a care in the world, and said, man, I could use a day like that. Yeah. So watching those cows just kind of go from point a to point b, and every once in a while, it’s like, yeah, that wouldn’t be a bad gig.
Scott W. Luton [00:17:41]:
You know, we’ve done a lot of shows, and that’s. You’re the first person, I’ve oftentimes, especially looked at my dogs as they’re napping for the 17th time by noon. And you’re the first person to call that out because I think we’ve all had those thoughts. Good stuff. Okay, before we put our finger on the pulse of what’s coming next at Gartner, one of my favorite questions to ask you, Mike, given all the movers and shakers you talk with, work with, you hear from, lean in, talk shop with what’s been one of your key takeaways from a conversation you’ve had with one of these unnamed global supply chain leaders will protect the anonymous. What’s been one exchange that’s really stuck with you here lately?
Mike Griswold [00:18:20]:
There was one a couple of weeks ago, and it also piggybacks into some of the things that we talked about at symposium and one of the macro trends from our supply chain top 25 research that we can talk about next month if you want. We have the big reveal on the 22 May. Anyone interested in that to see where the 2024 list of top 25 companies are. There continues to be lots of discussions and questions around this intersection between technology and people. And these conversations run the gamut from complete trepidation that technology is going to replace people, to the other end of the spectrum, which is we’re only going to dabble in this type of technology because we’re concerned about the impact that it has on people. And I think the truth and where we’re going to end up lies somewhere in the middle, where we’re going to have to figure out how do we augment decision making and intelligence with things like AI and generative AI into the work that people are already doing. Whether that’s moving the decisions to more of an exception base, where we can use technology to automate decisions. Think things like awarding of sourcing contracts.
Mike Griswold [00:19:46]:
If there are a set of business rules and principles that we as a human would use to make that decision, we can put most of that into technology. But there’s things like we’ve had lots of discussions around demand planning where we probably are not in a world in the foreseeable future where we have nobody that’s involved in the demand planning process and it’s all happening through a black box. So I think the conversation that people want to have is not one around the replacement of people and not one about the ignoring of the power of this technology. It’s that intersection. And we spend a lot of time both within the supply chain analyst community and the broader Gartner it community, talking to companies around what that intersection is going to look like.
Scott W. Luton [00:20:37]:
I want to go back to where you started, your response there. So May 22, I think I heard you right. That’s the big reveal for the Gartner supply chain. Top 25 for 2024. Hard to believe that’s already here. I remember when you and I were talking about, I think, the 2019 version edition. So I think you’ll have a live event on May 22, if I’m not mistaken, Mike, as you rolled out, right?
Mike Griswold [00:21:01]:
Correct. Live reveal. We’ll do the countdown. We’ll talk about the macro trends. As always, it’s one of, one of the most attended gartner webinars across the entire company. And it’s, you know, I think for people that are, you know, have a specific interest around how their particular company might do as well, just as a general interest or what are the things these leading companies are all working on that I can learn from? It’s a great 60 minutes of insight. Now I’ll raise my hand and say not super objective, but at least I’ve been told by others, right. It’s a great way to gather insights from leading companies.
Scott W. Luton [00:21:40]:
So many fans. As you mentioned, it’s one of the biggest attendant events of the year. Lots of fans of the whole top 25 program. And I love all the takeaways we can learn by all of y’all’s exhaustive research in these annual industry leaders and their performance and their challenges and their successes. You know, we really, we learn from all of it. So we, well done to you and the team. And folks, you can learn more if you’re listening to this after May 22. I’m sure, Mike, you can probably tune into that session on demand, too.
Mike Griswold [00:22:12]:
Yes, for sure. For sure.
Scott W. Luton [00:22:14]:
Wonderful.
Mike Griswold [00:22:15]:
All right.
Scott W. Luton [00:22:15]:
So beyond the supply chain top 25, which, looking forward to that, we’ll dive into that next month in June. What else is coming up next at Gartner, Mike?
Mike Griswold [00:22:25]:
So for folks that couldn’t, for whatever reason, make it to Orlando in, I think it’s four weeks around the 10 June, that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we’ve got our symposium in Barcelona. So we are now at a point where we can do this event multiple places around the world. Barcelona will be doing that in June. And then I know as we’ve talked in the past, as we move into October and November, then we’ll be launching or not launching. But we’re having our second annual planning summits, London and Denver this year, where we really will do deep dive into planning. Everything and anything you want to know about planning. Those will be the must attend events for people interested in planning.
Scott W. Luton [00:23:10]:
Love that. London and Denver coming up soon. They’ll be here for you know it folks. Of course you can learn more@gartner.com. And Mike, how can folks track you down if they want to have a conversation? One of the sharpest folks, at least I know, in supply chain. Your thoughts?
Mike Griswold [00:23:26]:
Yeah, email LinkedIn Mike.griswold@gartner.com. LinkedIn happy to chat. If you attended symposium and there were things you find interesting, drop me a note. I can connect you with some research or answer any questions you might have.
Scott W. Luton [00:23:39]:
Wonderful. And one other way you might meet Mike is if you’re standing in the middle of the fairway or 2ft from the hole on the green, because that’s where his golf ball will land up most days. Is that right, Mike?
Mike Griswold [00:23:51]:
Well, I don’t know that I’d say most days. I would say there’s a few days where that is the case. You’re more likely to run into me at the driving range, actually. I love to practice. I love to work on my game. You’re probably more likely to find me in the driving range than the middle of the fairway.
Scott W. Luton [00:24:05]:
All right, practice makes perfect. Good stuff, Mike, always a pleasure. I enjoy our conversations. We get lots of feedback from all of your observations once a month. We love it. Looking forward to June already. Be big. Thanks to Mike Griswold, vice president analyst with Gartner.
Mike Griswold [00:24:20]:
Thanks. Always happy to be here, Scott.
Scott W. Luton [00:24:22]:
All right, so folks, hope you enjoyed this session as much as I have. I’ve got my three pages of notes with the one and only Mike Griswold. Looking forward to next month already. Hey, be sure to tune in to check out Gartner program and check out the upcoming symposium. Check out that may 22 big reveal of the supply chain, top 25. Of course, that will be on demand as well. Tons of great lessons and key takeaways there from all of that programming. But whatever you do, hey, take one thing that Mike shared here today, put it into practice.
Scott W. Luton [00:24:52]:
Your folks, your people are ready to change how business is done right and be more successful, make better decisions. But it starts with leadership and starts with action, so deeds, not words. With all that said, Scott Luton, challenge you to do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed. And we’ll see you next time. Right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks for bye.
Narrator [00:25:14]:
Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at SupplyChainNow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.
